When Mike Stark commented on “the implosion” looming for Democrats as evidenced by the Massachusetts Senate special election next week by suggesting he wouldn’t phonebank for Martha Coakley, there were a number of replies taking issue with his assessment, accusing him of undermining progressives and empowering the far-right.
It’s just one example of a much larger debate taking place within the progressive movement, online and offline, about the special election, why Democrats and progressives are in this mess, and what progressives should do about it. Unfortunately, most of that discussion is taking place in a decontextualized vacuum, as if 2010 exists outside of history.
The fact is that we’ve seen this movie before. The Massachusetts special election is a textbook example of the phenomenon I’ve described here at FDL – where Democratic embrace of corporate neoliberalism leads to one and only one outcome: right-wing victory. We saw it play out in 1980 and 1994, every election from 2000 to 2004, and in other Anglo democracies such as Canada (2006) and Britain (sometime between now and June). And we’re watching it again in Massachusetts.
So what’s our response? We need to start by rejecting the notion that progressives have the ability to empower the far right wing by not falling in line behind weak, ineffectual, corporate Democrats. Everything we have seen in American politics since 1978 indicates that it is the “centrists” – those espousing and implementing a corporate neoliberalism – who achieve that empowerment, by depressing the base and alienating the swing voters. By all accounts, that’s exactly how Martha Coakley has run her campaign – and Scott Brown is responding exactly as a generation of right-wingers have, by seizing the opening to pass himself off as a charismatic populist, grabbing the alienated swing voters and taking advantage of a depressed Democratic base.
The MA Senate race is also a textbook example of how the corporatist party establishment tends to respond to these situations. Instead of wising up and making a play for the progressives by offering policy goodies, and a play for the swing voters by ditching consultant-speak and addressing them with more authentic language, they use scare tactics to try and motivate activists to work hard to avoid disaster. That works only to some degree, and we’ll find out on Tuesday whether it’s enough to stave off the right-wing in this case.
We also saw that reaction to the 2000 Nader phenomenon, which Mike Stark also brought up in his posts. Although I now hold several elected positions within my local and state Democratic Party here in California, I was a volunteer for the Nader campaign that fateful fall. The most common reaction among folks in Berkeley and Oakland when I canvassed them was that they were considering Nader only because Gore-Lieberman wasn’t offering them anything, hadn’t reached out to them. At any moment between August and October had Gore made a strategic outreach to alienated progressives, even in dogwhistle form, it would have brought a lot of those Nader voters home. I was surprised that no such outreach ever occurred, and that fear was the only argument used to try and win them back.
As we know, that argument didn’t bring back enough of them, at least not in Florida. There were many reasons why the 2000 election turned out as it did, but it too was at root a classic example of what happens when Democrats embrace corporate policies at the expense of the progressive populism that got them elected. Nader was a symptom of that, and even if he hadn’t run, Gore was having extreme difficulty holding together the coalition that Clinton had assembled twice before, watching swing voters who had given Clinton his victories in 1992 and 1996 get seduced by George W. Bush’s siren song of compassionate conservatism.
Although I later recognized the flaws of the third party approach, it took progressive activists – some of whom were, like me, former Naderites – to force the party to start paying attention to and caring about progressive voters. The Dean campaign was in some part about making that happen, as was the influx of progressive activists into party institutions that Dean initiated.
The party establishment’s reaction to things like voting for Nader, or staying home at a key election, is to treat it as a deviant act. Those who engage in it are seen as somehow flawed, stupid, demented, or otherwise showing signs of a lack of logical thought. In fact, actions like supporting a third party candidate or abstaining from an election are entirely predictable and commonplace reactions to a political coalition that has decided to ignore and at times belittle your needs and values. Most parties that have held power have faced a split within that party after at least 8 years in office since 1900 – Roosevelt’s Republicans in 1912, Truman’s Democrats in 1948, LBJ’s Democrats in 1968, Reagan-Bush’s Republicans in 1992, and Clinton-Gore’s Democrats in 2000.
In each case the cause was the same: coalitions wear themselves out eventually after the dominant partners inside it come to believe their position is secure and that they no longer need to make deals with those they view as junior members, that those junior members’ support of the coalition is either firm or unnecessary.
That’s why Obama’s decision to operate his administration as Clinton’s third term was so disastrous. It immediately recreated the political conditions of the 1990s, where progressives were unhappy and shut out from policymaking, and Democrats were so in hock to corporations that they lost touch with the people who put them in office and were beaten out by an insane right-wing that has a better message and a more common touch.
In that sense it’s good that Obama is going to Massachusetts tomorrow – he needs to start cleaning up his own mess. We know how this movie ends. It remains to be seen whether the White House is satisfied with it or wants to order a reshoot.
“Cool Democrats” via truthought.org’s at flickr



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Great diary.
Many thanks. Could not agree more.
The “choice” between the Democrats and the GOP is totally meaningless. Both parties whore themselves out to the same fat cats. The constant left vs. right prattle is just bread and circuses. All that remains is the right to choose which set of GOPocratic whores is going to screw us for the next few years.
It is clear now that Obama is a fraud. The unraveling continues.
Remember, this is the “transparency” president.
Of course his SEC pick finds it appropriate to seal details about the AIG bailouts until 2018.
Obama’s response:
(silence)
SEC order helps maintain AIG bailout mystery
SEC agreed with AIG to keep some bailout terms sealed
* SEC granted “confidential treatment” last May
* Secrecy order stays in place until November 2018
By Matthew Goldstein
NEW YORK, Jan 11 (Reuters) – It could take until November 2018 to get the full story behind the U.S. bailout of insurance giant American International Group (AIG.N) because of an action taken last year by the Securities and Exchange Commission.
In May, the SEC approved a request by AIG to keep secret an exhibit to a year-old regulatory filing that includes some of the details on the most controversial aspect of the AIG bailout: the funneling of tens of billions of dollars to big banks like Societe Generale, Goldman Sachs (GS.N), Deutsche Bank (DBKGn.DE) and Merrill Lynch.
The SEC’s Division of Corporation Finance, in granting AIG’s request for confidential treatment, said the “excluded information” will not be made public until Nov. 25, 2018, according to a copy of the agency’s May 22 order.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1116982020100111
Excellent post, thank you.
the problem i see with these “movies we’ve seen before” is that the dems always seem to take the wrong message from these losses and decide the way to win again is to move further to the right instead of moving back towards their base.
What is considered the “center” in this country now has moved so far to the right as to be unrecognizable.
Thank you for your always cogent analysis, Robert. It’s great to see you posting here. Really gave me a lot to think about.
Gee,
Obama’s own mess means his trip to Mass. is considered a “toss-up” as to whether he will help or hurt Coakley’s chances.
What a wrecking crew we have in Rahmobama!
Ah the Naderite. If you have still some regrets, remember you prevented Liebermann to be 1 step away from being the President. A Liebermann presidency
would have been worse than Bush; at least Bush did provide us some comic moments.
As for Mass election, I think this is one of those times when progressives should back Coakley. Because if they dont, no progressive agenda will be advanced (even a weak watered down agenda). The support can be revisited in November. That is just my rational view.
The problem is that no matter who wins the election, they cater to the right wing base while kicking the progressive base to the curb.
It is interesting that this time it only took one year (or at most three, if you count from 2006) for the disaffection to happen. This time, there is some hope that the message why we are disaffected will get a hearing. There more avenues for that message and one can only hope there are enough dems with a brain to start to recognize the pattern of: Move right -> loose. Move right -> loose. Move right -> loose.
Thank You!
I agree with your analysis but not with your hopeful prognosis. Obama’s involvement in Mass. and levy on the banks is a pathetic effort that is both far too little, and far too late. Obama has been and will continue to be a collosal failure. Obama has tarnished his image so much that he will need a public mea culpa moment and a radical populist shift to the left-basically dumping his entire economic team. Given how ultra-cautious his political manoeuvring has been throughout his political career, I see no possibility on this front. For progressives, this is certainly the bleakest hour that we have lived through in years. At least during the Bush years there was the illusion of possible future change in the form of Democratic majority. The majority of elected democrats are unabashed corporate dem’s. We will now have to live through at least another 4-8 years of republican plundering (post-2010) before we can even hope that a true populist leftist we able to ride a wave of discontent and channel it into true reform.
Our winner-take-all electoral system is so bankrupt, that progressives have no place to turn. For now, thanks to Obama, progressives have yielded the populist contestation to the extreme right.
The internet and 24/7 news are accelerating politics.
It is truly sad to watch FDL descend into the same kind of cultish behavior as the rw blogosphere. Does anyone here truly believe, as Nader said he did, that there is no difference between the parties? I’m as frustrated as many of you at the failure of the Dem party to embrace the progressive agenda, but sitting on the sidelines right now out of righteous pique is insane.
Right, Obama will telegraph signals of potential progressivism to win an election, to get over the next hurdle, but has yet to begin to deliver on much of anything significant.
The $90b tax on banks after we’ve fronted them $12-20t thrown out as a salvo in the MA Senate race is insulting, pennies on the dollar.
Ann0,
Your approach might be rational if you see this as a tactical election. Getting Coakley in will prevent some harm or do some good in the short run and so it is the right move. I question this premise but I’m not sure it is true. However, in the long run, a vote for Coakley supports the wholesale betrayal of progressive principle. It says: Running progressive and governing conservative is just fine thank you very much.
We have to stop that slide to the right and this is the only current opportunity to do that.
I urge you to reconsider your well intentioned, but in my view, naive vote.
Exactly. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying, and my centrist friends look at me like I’m from a different planet. But I think you’re right, that’s the only way out at this point. I just hope we can survive 8 more years of wingnut rule.
The scale of the problems is growing faster than the capacity of the Democrats or the Republicans to deal with them. The Democrats, in this instance, hinder progress because they prevent the reconfiguration of politics required to tool up to confront the challenges we face in any manner that will not result in the US turning into an authoritarian capitalist work farm.
There is little daylight between Clinton, Bush II and Obama.
Great post -
Sad to say it but I wonder if the Dem elites will ever learn – the MA Senate race is more evidence that they haven’t got the message yet.
To ann0nymous – you said:
Isn’t that what we always do – put off the confrontation till a later date? Look where it has gotten us?
You took the words right out of my mouth on reading this thread….EXACTLY!
It took Carter and his big Dem Congressional majorities 4 years to piss off the country. It took Clinton and his big majorities 2 years. It’s taken Obama and his big majorities less than 1 year. The Democrats are getting better at this.
Look at the profiles of the parties over time. The Dems of today are clearly not the Rethugs of today. But they they sure look a lot like the Rethugs of the 70′s. We must stop the slide to the right.
It has been my observation that if Democrats act like Republicans, folk may just vote for Republicans, because they’re better at being Republicans. Democrats have to offer an alternative to the corporate-controlled Republican Party, and that is not happening, apparently.
Excellent post. Thank you for presenting some perspective as well as your experience and insights.
We’ve been getting some of this over at The Seminal lately. It’s pathetic.
I’ve been saying that, in 2010, we need to get out of the way as sellout Democrats cause electoral difficulties for all Democratic candidates, mostly because if we seem like we’re cheering on those losses, we’ll become the scapegoats. We’ll be blamed for the losses, rather than the corporatist a$$hole Democrats who so richly deserve that blame.
I might be reading this into the post, but it seems like what you’re saying is that we should support progressive candidates in 2010 while avoiding coming across as enjoying the Democrats’ losses.
Frankly, I would be thrilled if the leadership of the Democratic Party had chosen to advance real reform and to serve the American people. I’m sure they’d be reaping the electoral victories in Nov had they followed through on their promises. I know that I would be supporting the Democratic Party right now if they had.
Up to post #14, I count the score 12-2, the lead being held by the Coakley-is-just-another-corporatist-democrat team.
No fouls so far.
Thanks for the post, Robert. Well done.
Doesn’t the history you site tell us that staying home, while a valid option, is exactly the wrong thing to do?
No progressive agenda has been advanced since Jan 20, 2009, not even a weak watered down progressive agenda.
Nice try at sounding reasonable in the hopes of making us not see the spin. We can spot spin from miles away.
The fact is that the American people aren’t buying it, either. The Democratic Party’s problems go way beyond having let down those of us at Firedoglake who insist on getting nothing less than real progressive reform.
Conservative Democratic Senators may be able to wag the dog because of the 60-vote rule, but they don’t represent any kind of majority opinion of those who call themselves Democrats. When 88% of those who self-identify as Democrats want a strong Public Option, and the best our legislators can give us is this rotten bill, the system is totally broken.
I am totally for running progressive candidates. I am totally for primarying Blue Dogs in districts that support more progressive politics. But we don’t currently have that choice in MA. We have a centrist Dem who will support democratic policies against a teabagger who will work aggressively to destroy them Yes we need to press for a reconfiguration of the political process that will allow the progressive wing of the party to be heard. But electing Brown won’t help that effort. Fischer hopes “we can survive 8 more years of wingnut rule.” No, we can’t.
What are the chances of the Democratic leadership changing their focus back to a more populist agenda? If what you say is correct, it should mean that primary challenges of corporatist Dems ought to work, provided they actually get a chance to make their case.
As Harry Truman said, “When given a choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like one, people pick the Republican every time. Remember, Clinton did push through his tax plan before he started caving to the right, and then rode the improving economy to reelection. Somehow Obama (and the Dem majority before him) decided to skip that important step; doing little to restore some balance that had been so upset during the Bush years.
In 2010, leading Dems say they plan to run against Bush. In what way?
Loss at the ballot box is the only thing these types understand, unfortunately.
Any evidence Obama wants to change?
The Democrats move to the money, as they must.
Look to the money. The only way to win this is to build a campaign finance movement to buy back our elected. This is not campaign finance reform, it is a fund-raising campaign at the grassroots level to fund re-election campaigns.
It does not matter who is elected, they are faced with re-election fund-raising as the primary activity, not governing nor representing their constituents.
Money is they key. Campaign money.
Not being from Mass.I can only watch as many of you can only do on the tube ,and from what I have seen of Ms Coakley,body language,facial expressions etc.Is not very inspiring.
And if someone had said this is where we would be after ,not just Nationally but worlwide feelings of hope and change I would not have believed it.
Just like a lot of things in life, politics is about emotion as much as it is anything else. It certainly appeared that Barak Obama understood this when he was a candidate. But whatever understanding of the electorate they seemed to have during the last election has been discarded and the Democrats have embraced the “neo-liberal” corporatism that lines their pockets but doesn’t inspire their voters. The emotion has instead gone over to the other side as they pretend to be reformers and campaign against the corruption of the Democratic party, or at least against the corrupt deals Democrats made to try to get their health insurance bill passed. It’s really not that hard to understand, but yet Democrats keep blowing it.
Perhaps there is one lesson that progressives can learn from the current Democratic debacle. Progressives need to brand themselves better in the main stream media. They need to shun all actions and representatives that will play into the elistist-liberal-urban effete image that the MSM loves to peddle, and go into the gritty trenches. While we wait for the 2050 demographic shift that should change the electoral map entirely, progressives need to find some means to convey a powerful bond with the mythical white working class type that the media enshrines. If progressives can brand themselves effectively in the media, the corpadems will not be able to condescendingly dismiss them. If legions of cretins and astroturf teapartiers have been able to surf on and usurp popular discontent, there is no insuperable obstacle to progressives branding their populist outreach. The playing field isn’t level with the media-monopoly, but there is still a field to be played on at least.
I plan on voting in Tuesday’s election , it’s one of those lesser of two evils thing.
I think I’d rather have a bad Democrat in office than another right winger.
We’ve seen the damage the right has caused to this country ,do we want them to return to power so they can resume the carnage ?
There is no way Obama can avoid blame that he isn’t doing something right if the Dems lose Ted’s seat. But since I don’t think he will face the problem I think he will blame us!
The GOP will claim they are popular as the reason why they won we need to look at off year election voting numbers then to see what story is true.
huh?
when, during the last decade, have progressives forced the party to pay attention and care about progressive voters with anything real (promises don’t count. actions do)?
And can you clarify how the carnage has stopped? Please be specific.
Are you suggesting that a political regime that produces a Stupak amendment is not wingnut rule?
The only things that politicians understand is the credible threat one where next election they eat the shit sandwich if they don’t play ball.
You’re asking me to prove a negative.
Do you think we’d be better off with McCain as president , with Sarah Palin as VP ?
while i’m at it, i’d like to point out that the public/private competition model for healthcare reform is just such a neoliberal policy. this one was created and sold (sometimes dishonestly) to progressives by dem party elite.
i don’t see how we can we fight corporate neoliberalism unless we can identify it. so this is my contribution. the public option in competition with private insurance is a stupid neoliberal policy.
It would make no difference.
The US would have invaded Iraq or its equivalent under Gore, the permanent governement needed that.
Similarly, Palin would not be allowed to fuck things up by the permanent government, just as Bush II was not allowed to. They just got your ire as democrats for fucking over progressives more effectively than you all had figured out how to. But now, I think that the Dems and GOP are in a tight race to see who can do more damage to us.
What we have is a straight line conecting Bush I, Clinton, Bush II and Obama. McCain/Palin would not have significantly altered that dominant trend.
Ridiculous!
The choice between party is a false choice.
When we work for, give money to, and aid so called democrats to get elected and then have them turn around and behave like republicans or corporate owned puppets what good does it do progressives?
IMHO if the dems lose badly and I believe they will, perhaps it will go a long way in showing them they can not simply continue to use the progressives to get elected then turn around and stab us in the back seconds after they are sworn.
Well, point to some good things that have happened that would not have happened if McCain were in the White House? I can think of perhaps 50% of the Stimulus (perhaps) and maybe Sotomayor. What else?
The point here is not that the delta is 0, but it is increasingly small. And if you look at this historically, it is really vanishingly small.
Yeah, Sarah Palin is so STUPID, that she didn’t get suckered into voting for a candidate who ran to the left but governed to the right.
Well thank Stupak for Sotomayor, at least choice is safe!
Will let you know after seeing how Sotomayor votes on campaign finance.
I think there are elephants here in donkey clothing.
Here’s another crumb.
Unless Obama et al actually see things coming unglued it will be business (corporate) as usual! If it takes a loss in MA to accomplish this, so be it.
It’s not a matter of no absolute difference, but absolutely no meaningful difference. We threw out Bush just to get not only an escalation in Afghanistan and more drones hitting Pakistan but new military actions in Yemen. We still bail out banks and don’t regulate them. The Senate health care bill looks like Medicare Part D on steroids. The worst blow to abortion rights in decades came from our Democratic majority legislature. Briefs and legislative pushes on civil rights issues that sound just like Bush. So what exactly are we getting from our Dems that we weren’t getting from the Repubs? Lily Ledbetter on the good side, Stupak on the bad side, and a lot pretty much the same.
But the biggest concern of those who see no difference is that there is no difference in their main constituency and area of concern being corporations and the elite and their money/power. It doesn’t matter who is on the letterhead, the orders are still coming from the same bankers, insurance companies, energy companies, etc.
It matters who cooks Thanksgiving dinner in my family because we have different skills as well as personalities. But the menu never changes because no matter who does the cooking, Mom has decreed what constitutes a Thanksgiving dinner. If all you want is a little different presentation, that’s fine, but if you are allergic to the family stuffing recipe, you’re screwed.
Right, there are only two choices, agree with the Democrats on everything or else you are a Republican.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with 3rd parties – at least people are participating.
I am NOT going to take the time to get the count or the percentage of people who do NOT vote in presidential / congressional elections, but, there are 10s of millions who do NOT vote cuz the candidates are blatant sell outs, like the fascists, weak pathetic sell outs, like the DLCers Blue Dogs, or just weak and pathetic.
ALWAYS VOTE – vote for your shoe, your dog, the green guy – how your vote is interpreted …??
the highly paid spreadsheet jockeys will play with numbers and play with lies until they can get someone to pay them for playing with numbers and playing with lies – it is called “conventional wisdom” – and they will justify whatever the f’k they need to justify to keep the checks rolling in, and since the checks from the pigs at the top are the checks with the most zeroes, the jockeys keep lying for the pigs.
yawn.
oh yeah – yo e!
rmm.
imo the vote in MA is complicated by the issue of healthcare reform. if coakley supports the party and votes for whatever comes out of current negotiations, she could be assisting in seriously undermining romneycare. which, while flawed and unsustainable (no cost control other than denying care), is better in almost all ways than either the house or senate bill.
so what should dems in MA do?
Obama is toast. His embrace of criminal banksters has sealed his fate. As he will be a one term president, it would have been much better if he was not re-elected because he was perceived to be too progressive, not because he was perceived to be a corrupt hypocrite.
My Democratic senator voted for TARP and voted to confirm Tim Geithner. I will cheer her eviction from office.
Unfortunately they already have five votes for completely turning the political process purely into a fight between competing corporate interests. We’re fucked there actually.
Three things:
1) Progressives overestimate our electoral importance. We are minority even in a state like Massachusetts.
2) Progressives don’t run for office. Bernie Sanders makes this point time and again. Until more progressives start running for local and state offices, we are really putting our ideas into the electoral marketplace.
3) Money has corroded our electoral system and there’s no cure in sight.
The effect of these is that we are left supporting Democrats that are beholden to corporate interests.
Those who live in Massachusetts need to get out and vote and make sure their family and neighbors vote. Whatever Coakley’s faults, they pale in comparison to Brown. Moreover, the effect of a loss in Massachusetts has national repercussions. There will be a domino effect. That should scare all of you into action.
Just because we don’t get everything we want doesn’t mean we have to reject it all.
Then we are behaving as little children
I’ll take what’s good and work to fix what ain’t . Yeah we got some real bad Dems right now but the alternative would be far far worse .
How does 15 or 16 percent unemployment sound , or a job market still bleeding 600,000 jobs a month.
Yeah we got a lot of work to do , but like I said it’s the lesser of two evils , I’ll choose the D’s
Jane is upstairs with a BlueAmerica candidate.
But the biggest concern of those who see no difference is that there is no difference in their main constituency and area of concern being corporations and the elite and their money/power.
And most especially because of the enormous support Obama was able to gather. Dems control all 3 branches, people are thirsting for change as never before but what are we ending up with? It’s bullshit.
No, I understand disagreeing with the Democratic Party. I do that often. What I can’t understand is your inability to distinguish the Democratic Party from the Republican Party.
Anyone that claims not to be able to do that is suspect in my opinion.
Great post. I could not agree with you more. I just left a long-winded reply to a question DDay asked me yesterday in which I said that both times Republicans have won the Governor’s office in MA over the past 25 years, it was due to the arrogance and complacency of the Dem party machine here in the commonwealth. I think we are now seeing that arrogance and complacency at the national level create real repercussions back here in the Senate race.
I am dumb-founded that the Democratic leadership is incapable of seeing the damage they are doing to themselves.
I am equally dumb-founded by all those who turn up here in our threads uttering some variation of “how dare you criticize the Democrats”. What they fail to comprehend is that those of us who have seen this movie before are doing our damnedest to save the Democrats.
The US would have invaded Iraq or its equivalent under Gore, the permanent governement needed that.
What do you mean by “Iraq or its equivalent”?
Excellent point realworld, but this disaffection must manifest itself as visible outrage at sitting democrats and refusal to let them govern from the right of center, even if it means losing an election. Given what’s been happening since Obama was elected, a Coakley win would ensure that virtually no progressive legislation gets passed, because Dems think the way to re-election is by behaving like they’re conservatives. You might argue that electing a Repub would move the Dems even further Right, but even the Tea Party people (who just sent me an appeal for funds to support Brown; what can I say, I troll townhall.com occasionally) know that it’s all about the disastrous Senate HCR Bill and Dem favoritism toward large corporate interests, especially in the financial sector.
I don’t think a single member of the Dem establishment will misinterpret a Coakely loss because of disaffected Progressives and Liberals, although they’ll lie their asses off in an effort to spin in it a way that deflects as much blame as possible away from the White House. That should be fun to watch.
Well, what it SHOULD do is scare the current Dem powers to start acting like they are dems. If that doesn’t happen were screwed anyways, 2010 will be a bloodbath and 2012 is shot too. Am I optimistic that the right lesson will be learned from this exercise? No. But I am certain that if Coakley wins the message will be “stay the course”.
Why is sitting on the sidelines insane? Just a week ago, Rahm Emanuel was characterized by Sam Stein as arrogantly dismissing Progressive opposition to the Senate Bill as “whining” and basically refusing to pay attention to us at all. I guarantee they’re paying attention to us now.
Well, rarely is the necessity of an “intervention” appreciated by those doing harm to themselves.
…First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win….
by Mahatma Gandhi.
I see alot of regular commentors as well.
Maybe its Cass Sunnstein’s crew*g*
No kidding ; )
Yeah right, I am sure Lieberman, Nelson and Landrieu on the heels of a Coakley defeat will start voting in a more progressive manner.
Just the opposite will occur.
Yes, the “You are a for not voting Dem all the time” crowd does make me think a lot about the dynamics of co-dependence.
The simple fact is there are very few Democrats running in the Democratic primaries and very few Democrats occupying nominally ‘Democratic’ seats in Congress.
The silliness of the Demos polling (e.g. “What’s most important to you …..? x , y or z?) accentuates the fact they dont get it or alternatively simply assume voters to be idiots. The harm has already been done; if the Dems didnt originate it, they perpetuated or accelerated it in all the areas mentioned, x and y and z: for evidence and proof, look no further than the urge to expand the war, bailing out the financial industry, blocking legitimate health care reform, blocking meaningful financial reform, stifling assistance to homeowners, diddling and dithering about a ‘jobs bill’ when there are six unemployed workers for every one job, punishing those who cannot find work and must file for bankruptcy, etc etc
I do not know that the nominal Dem will lose MA, but, if it is a lose, it will not be a lose for true Democrats, only for corporatist DINOs. Whether the DINO wins or not, the decision we have to make is about our energy, effort, influence and funding: Where should these be directed in the coming months?
The energy in the Republican Party is the energy of the true believers; the Democratic Party is devoid of true believers. We have wasted our time with the Democratic Party and the nation is worse for it. I believe our energy, effort, influence and funding should be directed to Progressive Candidates and not to the Democratic Party.
But they’re republicans anyways. Why do they matter. Strip them of all power. Strip Landrieu of her DSCC support. Get rid of the cloture rule. Re-staff the committee chairs. There is lots that could happen if the party wanted to.
If Scott Brown were the better candidate then he would get my vote .
Should we vote for him because he’s the better candidate ,or because he’s not a Democrat ?
Yes, there are improvements that could be made, but emboldening and empowering the Party of Limbaugh is not the correct path.
That made me laugh.
Seldom is the necessity to change tactics seen by those who don’t want to see.
Hmmm, didn’t think of that.
In regards to Sunnstein, the WSJ did an informative piece about him a year or so ago…long before the Salon piece came out.
Just for the record, some background info.
Forthwith an excerpt:
WASHINGTON — Cass Sunstein, a Harvard Law School professor who pioneered efforts to design regulation around the ways people behave, will be named the Obama administration’s regulatory czar, a transition official said Wednesday.
Mr. Sunstein, a friend of President-elect Barack Obama from their faculty days at the University of Chicago law school, will mark a sharp departure for the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. Although obscure, the post wields outsize power. It oversees regulations throughout the government, from the Environmental Protection Agency to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration.
Obama aides have said the job will be crucial as the new administration overhauls financial-services regulations, attempts to pass universal health care and tries to forge a new approach to controlling emissions of greenhouse gases.
Mr. Sunstein, a prolific academic with wide-ranging interests, may be best known for advancing a field known as “law and behavioral economics” that seeks to shape law and policy around the way research shows people actually behave. The theory builds on earlier approaches developed at the University of Chicago law school that sought to harmonize regulatory law with free-market economics. Although widely embraced by conservatives, critics said it failed to account for the sometimes less-than-rational aspects of human behavior.
In an interview with The Wall Street Journal last year, Mr. Sunstein said Mr. Obama was intrigued by “law and behavioral economics” as an approach to regulation that would avoid ideological extremes.Mr. Obama believes in “doing law in a way that’s realistically based on human behavior,” Mr. Sunstein said. “He’s a University of Chicago Democrat, so he’s very attuned to the virtue of free markets and the risks of free-market regulation. He’s not an old-style Democrat who’s excited about regulations” for their own sake.
Regulatory Czar Likely to Set a New Tone – WSJ.comJan 8, 2009 … Harvard Law School professor Cass Sunstein will be named the Obama administration’s … where his wife, Samantha Power, also teaches. …
online.wsj.com/article/SB123138051682263203.html – Cached – Similar
That log in problem still happening , refresh the page then log back in
You say Progressives have no influence because they are a minority. Who do you think determines elections? If progressives stay home on Tuesday and Coakley loses, they will have determined the election. It’s the 5% of voters who change their mind, or could go either way, that determine elections. That’s the way you matter. Progressives MUST let Dems know that their votes are now up for grabs. Why should I vote for another corporate shill who pretends to be a liberal? I don’t consider hypocrisy and betrayal to be the lesser of two evils.
Wait, I thought Caroline Kennedy had dibs… ;^)
— cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth
That’s true. Its really just a Corporatist election with the Dems. being a bit more socially Liberal. The Big $$ issues though are all going to go the same Corporatist way no matter which candidate wins.
We’d do better to walk away from the table after our side started compromised and is now trying to get us to buy into the compromise of the compromise the likes of which would be excoriated as a corporate abomination had this policy been proposed by the Republicans.
You can say that all you want, but to the extent that Democrats alienate their base the same way that the Republicans alienate the Democrats’ base, they do so to their peril.
I live in California. Had the Democrats stood up to the GOP instead of caving to Olympia Snowe for no good reason and passed a stimulus package that was not 1/2 tax cuts, we’d have seen much more headway in saving jobs. But the dems folded again and screwed their base to appeal to Republicans.
You all can’t win elections without us. If the D’s expect to win in the future, they’d better not take progressives for granted.
The financial and economic crises are so staggering that the difference between the Dems and the Reps is immeasurable compared to the rate of change that is overwhelming us.
I have hit the wall with the corporate Dems.
No more.
They kept shifting further and further to the right and the lesser of two evils argument is almost meaningless now. Either this party must take into account progressive ideas or a third party or independent must move to fill the void.
Progressives may not be the majority of the country but they’re large enough not to be ignored. When the centrists all squeeze in together, straddling lines between left and right while those lines fade away, progressives need to be firm and true to their principles.
Enough is enough.
The Dems have gotten so bad that frankly, the right doesn’t scare me anymore. Why? Because the alternative to the right looks too much like the right.
So–forget party. Let’s just stop pretending that the Dems are governing from the left because it gives the left a bad name.
Whatever the consequences–it IS time for change. It won’t be easy, or simple or painless. But it is a necessity.
There never have been, there aren’t and it is very doubtful that there
ever will be enough progressives to form a majority. Although, in the future I think there influence could be enhanced by thoughtful leadership.
In the past and currently, the only way progressives have meaningfully impacted policy is to join with moderates to form a coalition. This coalition constittutes a majority roughly half the time since the southern realignment in the late sixties and early seventies.
Now, the cost and the benefit of this coalition is halting half-assed progessive change.
Should progressives chose to rupture this coalition by failing to vote for someone like Coakley, they should be prepared for very diificult times and the political wilderness.
So what is different. Either way they don’t vote for the progressive agenda.
Given your user name, I assume you recognize the fantasy in what you are saying here.
Or to put it another way, have you ever noticed how fat chance and slim chance mean the same thing?
With all due respect, this post/diary is wrong on most facts. The people who voted for Nader in 2000 were misled by an egomaniac that pretended to stand for something and actually stood for himself only. It was clear in 2000. The same people and many more were misled by Obama in 2008. He never stood for anything but Wall Street. Obama doesn’t stand for Clinton III, he wish he would. He doesn’t have the populist attraction, he doesn’t have Clinton’s intelligence and Clinton never pretended to be someone he wasn’t. Obama is an inapt, weak, mediocre and non-fighting pol who revives the dead Republican party.
We know now, most were not listening, that Gore was much more than the regular corporate Democrats. Then, you were not willing to listen, you were busy hating Clinton and Gore.
A totally confused “progressive” movement, that doesn’t even understand what it stands for, has brought a lot of trouble to an already troubled coalition.
Our ideas are supported by majorities, like in housing and job protections for LGBT, reining in the financial industry, a public option or single payer health care or medicare for all, an economic policy that creates good middle class sustainable jobs in the US instead of racing to the bottom with authoritarian asian capitalism.
Obama ran for office on a platform of progressive change from Bush policies and against more conservative positions that Hillary Clinton espoused, the individual mandate.
On what planet is the base not supposed to open up its can of whup ass after winning two elections and getting kicked in the Stupak?
in 2000 in might’ve, but not anymore. dogwhistles and empty symbolism just don’t cut it.
great post, RC!
Very well written and nice syopsis of the current splits and debates on the progressive side. Obama is going to MA not to clean up his mess but to try to use the prestige of his office to keep the current game going a while longer. It is an ad hoc patch not a change in strategy.
The big difference between Left Progressives and Tea baggers is the Tea baggers think that Gov’t is the problem period. They might see that some Big Corps are in league with Gov’t but there is where the disconnect happens. I’ve got some friends that are tea baggers and heres how they see it. They say that Corps. have to do Big brothers bidding and are therefore forced by corrupt Gov’t offs. to basically bribe their way through a mountain of regs. So they want the regs removed and the Gov’t shrunk instead. We believe the opposite or that both Gov’t and Business is corrupt and that the revolving door needs to be removed. We don’t believe that such a thing as a ‘free market” really exists and that Big Corps. need regulation or they naturally tip the playing field toward themselves. The right thinks if you remove Gov’t totally from the market then all will be well =AKA Market Fundamentalism. We might agree with them on stuff like the Forced mandate for instance but look deeper. Many here are ok with the mandate if you add in a Public Option or better yet a Single payer supported by taxes. the tea baggers hate all three options in that mix. So, I think although it looks like we have areas of agreement its more along the lines of the Soviet – Nazis pact of 1939. It cannot last or have a good ending and I’d advise Jane to cease and desist from thinking the tea baggers are really potential allies. Left Progressives are not Anarchists quite the opposite and Tea baggers are not Libertarians, from what I can see many of the tea baggers are social conservatives more interested in using Gov’t to enforce their social and religious ideas then as a institution to make profit. they might not be Corporatist as we have been defining this group but they don’t seem to be bothered by getting in bed with these people if their socially conservative just as many progressives don’t seem to mind getting into bed with Socially Liberal Corporatist.
Very well said. A much more mature and realistic treatment than Jason Rosenbaum’s “Don’t be a Naderite” sermon recently offered at Seminal.
Typical riff on the argument that the Democrats screw up so it must be the progressives’ fault.
in response to Blutodog@98
I think the difference is that the Tea Baggers are fundamentalists who think that Bush did not implement their agenda without deviation and progressives have the majority of the country on our side in general support for our policy agenda and are seeing no consideration to speak of for our agenda from candidates who ran on it.
Were we getting some consideration and bolted for not getting everything, then that is childish. But bolting after getting Stupaked–could any of you imagine a Republican Congress and President opening the door to federal funding of abortions?–is a sign of maturity and intelligence.
It is not like Obama is not implementing the progressive agenda precisely, rather not implementing it at all.
More blame the victim crap from those victimizing women, their rock solid base constituency, by Stupak.
With all due respect oldgold, the following is pure bullshit:
“Should progressives chose to rupture this coalition by failing to vote for someone like Coakley, they should be prepared for very diificult times and the political wilderness.”
It should be changed to read “should the Democratic Party continue to rupture the coalition they’ve established with Progressives and Real Liberals, they should prepare for very difficult times and the political wilderness.”
First, the coalition is the Democratic Party. So, your reconstruction of my sentence makes no sense.
Second, if you consider our nation’s left/right political spectrum, the group that will suffer most should Democratic coalition rupture, isn’t the middle, but the left. It will become the appendics of our nation’s body politic.
I wrote an entire diary supporting my belief that there is not a dimes worth of difference, and I really don’t believe there is. Your shaming language does not consitute a logical argument.
no, the coalition is the Republicrat Party.
for example this is why it was so easy and natural for Obama to retain Bush’s SecDef Gates to expand and operate the continuing wars and occupations.
it’s why Impeachment was always ‘off the table’ and why the rampant criminality of the Republican administration will not be prosecuted, or even investigated. the Legacy Parties are partners, dude!
if you think (D) and (R) represent Left and Right, well, not if you consider the rest of the world.
more accurately, the relevant political axis is ruler/ruled, oligarchy vs peasantry.
Are we in the middle of a 10-car pile-up, or what?
Fox has a story about Chris Hollen’s interview with Bloomberg this week in which he says that the Dems were ALWAYS prepared to do reconciliation on HCR, even before it was possible that Coakley would lose. But now, they are “dusting off” reconciliation, in light of the Mass. race.
So, if that’s the case, why shouldn’t we go back to negotiating the best health care bill possible, with Public Option, Single Payer, Medicare for All, whatever? We don’t need Snowe. We don’t need Lieberman. We don’t need Nelson. We don’t need Baucus. We don’t need all the a-holes who watered down the reform, and basically pimped for the Insurance Companies and Pharma. If you believe this story, thanks to the stupidity of the WH, and their failure to lead on HCR, Progressives are actually better off on HCR if Coakley loses! But for every other piece of Democratic business after HCR, if Coakley loses, we’re f***ed.
Well, that’s 11 dimensional Chess for you!
We’re surviving right wing rule right now, just like we survived it during the Bush years, and we will survive in the future long enough to elect a real progressive.
if we do those things we will be the dlc.
Is that a step above or below the anal sphincter?
I ain’t an elephant or a donkey. I am a progressive first and foremost!
Up
Progrssives abandoning the vote in MA sends a clear message to the Democratic party.
You can’t win without us, so you must listen to us.
People learn from failure. A failure in MA will be a very strong “learning event” for the democratic party (I’d write “teach ‘em a lesson”, but that phrase has an implication picking a fight I don’t want to convey). The lesson in MA is self-inflicted, so I expect much denial from the D leadership – aka: It wasn’t my fault, it was ________, or FDL.
We need to send a very strong message that the current events in MA are the direct result of only garnering support from the village, or from within the bubble.
Obama was elected with a very strong grass roots organization. He needs to listen to it, not dictate to it.
Will he learn? Does not matter. If R’s are elected in 2012, they will hasten the collapse. Cut taxes, increase deficit, fight more wars, invade more countries, pollute more, and deny climate change and science.
Haven’t we earned better than the worst that we can endure?
Let me clarify that. I didn’t mean that tea baggers think the Gov’t is the problem because it does stuff. They aren’t anarchists , I did say I felt they were probably social conservatives. So we agree on that. They didn’t get everything they wanted from BV$H but at least BV$H tried to please them as long as they’re agenda didn’t stray from the basic Corporatist script. Obama has little interest in pleasing the Progressive base period as far as I can see. He’s Pro-Big Corporatist as are his supporters in Congress. Were being told to STFU because other wise we’ll be getting Sara and the Fundies back. The truth is that we’d actually be getting Big Corp.’s A team the Goper Corp. wing and that means less cash for the B Team. Either way we get zip.
At what point does one stop “enabling”??????
We’ll be enduring forever so long as you put up with abuse and neglect which is what this is!
The abusive spouse always finds a way to keep the battered spouse from leaving the house, always another promise, always another threat.
No mas.
If the coalition is the Republicrat Party, why hasn’t a single Republican voted for any of Obama’s major iniatives?
The question is why are Republican-friendly measures passing without any Republican votes if Obama won running on a liberal/progressive platform?
Obama ran against an IM, if the GOP proposed an IM, the Dems would be shitting purple twinkies on the floor of the House.
A stronger message would be to writein someone progressive. This “not voting” will be spun by the right wing cut throats as “lazy voters!” They are planning this already.
workin the refs, and stupid tribalism. They win either way!
FWIW, In my personal experience, I have seen very few instances of “going along to get along” resulted in going anywhere or getting anything worth having.
No, eventually the repetitive abuse extracts its inevitable, and very final toll on the victim.
No, a fair reading of our nation’s history is that progressives have been winnng since 1932.
It has been wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too slow, but across the board we have been winning.
The progress, as slow as it has been, is the product of our patient
coalition with moderates.
Since 1980 we’ve been getting our asses kicked.
Instead of taking the left turn out of this depression like FDR took in 1934, Obama is taking us on a right turn, neoliberal shock doctrine, shifting the costs for health care from the society or employer or the insurer onto the individual and perpetuating the Wall Street financial casino.
A fair reading would show that we have won nothing since the sunpac decision. For instance the decline of the middle class is no longer reversed under democrats since Carter. Obama is doing nothing but cementing the trend of corporate greed influencing politics, and that is what is killing the middle class. Obama is anti new deal or he would have reinstituted Glass Steagall. The dlcers are not the same as the old democrats. They have supplanted them, in a stealth coup.
Not to mention discouraging progressive political participation by demonstrating yet again that electoral politics is not an avenue where we can have our democratic say.
Sorry, this is an idiotic, juvenile post, of the category “I will hold my breath until I die if you don’t pay attention to me.”
Grow up.
The fact is that if Obama shit canned the Individual Mandate, Coakley would win big.
WW II ended the Depression.
You call names rather than address any of the mature articles specific concerns than have the nerve to call something juvenile!
I found this an interesting passage in a WSJ interview.
Ofcourse, it is a subjective opinion of one person about another person, but it intriguied me ,nonetheless.I am not really certain what to think of this assessment, in light of what has transpired since this interview was originally published.
Forthwith:
“In an interview with The Wall Street Journal last year, Mr. Sunstein said Mr. Obama was intrigued by “law and behavioral economics” as an approach to regulation that would avoid ideological extremes.
Mr. Obama believes in “doing law in a way that’s realistically based on human behavior,” Mr. Sunstein said. “He’s a University of Chicago Democrat, so he’s very attuned to the virtue of free markets and the risks of free-market regulation. He’s not an old-style Democrat who’s excited about regulations” for their own sake.”
Regulatory Czar Likely to Set a New Tone – WSJ.comJan 8, 2009 … Harvard Law School professor Cass Sunstein will be named the Obama administration’s … where his wife, Samantha Power, also teaches. …
online.wsj.com/article/SB123138051682263203.html – Cached – Similar
shorter: The Democrats are so toast in this and any upcoming elections in the near future (my prognostication gets real fuzzy after 2012 for some reason).
If the economy improves over the late spring and summer, and I think it will, the Democrats will be fine in November.
You know, the GOP hasn’t covered itself in glory in all of this.
I do; however, enjoy the humor in your post 2012 remark.
because they are a disempowered minority, and Obama loses popularity with every corporate sellout?
vote trading is practiced within each Party as well – if the Leadership knows a bill has plenty of votes to pass, certain members are allowed to cast symbolic votes against, for their local political needs. and there is the whole procedural kabuki where they vote for cloture on a bill, but then get to vote against it on the floor.
an certain issues they vote clearly as a coalition, condemning the Goldstone report and saber rattling against Iran – those votes are like 100 to 1, near unanimous.
and, obviously, many if not most of the lobbyists and corporate interests have no trouble donating generously to both factions of the Republicrat Party – why might that be?
deep, I know, but give it a ponder.
The unempolyment rate was 15% in 1940, when hitler started his rumblings. Take note of this date. Now in 1937 at 14.3%. This is down from 24% in 1933 when FDR first took the oath of office. It hovered around 15% throughout the war. So you are wrong when you say the war was all that ended the depression, and repeating a right wing talking point, which is common among your dlc tribe.
WWII rebuilding the US productive capacity AND the emergence of the US as the sole intact industrial power finally ended the depression. None of that is on the horizon now.
Dameocrat nails you on the rest, back atcha, Dameocrat.
Spork,
Greetings!
Have you checked out Chris Floyd’s blistering piece on the sad history of Haiti?
YOWZA!
I do firmly believe most of the GOP is trash, with some exceptional examples, made even more so by their scarcity.
However, what will happen is government by alternative, as in ElectedRep.alt, with the default being a noop (as in No Operation, i.e. a no-show)
Send the message. It’s two parts.
1. Without us you lose.
2. You lost because you did nothing for us.
How? Letters to you congress critters. Fear of loss:
1. A Progressive agenda (New contract with America?)
2. “You will be in the minority, and not elected, unless you meet our needs to motivate us to GOTV, the progressive agenda”
Short and sweet.
Because the issues are MONEY friendly.
Linky?
No WW II did not end the depression. It slowed the recovery. Please read Thom Harman web site, he has a good analysis of this.
Gore didn’t lose because there was no difference between him and Bush. You’d have to have slept through the election campaign to believe that. He lost because the media painted him as a pathological liar. I’m ashamed to admit I voted for Nader in 2000, but I think I’ve learned my lesson, anyway.
gitch! props for referencing Black Agenda Report!
and MArkH never did reappear after your link to Coakley’s PHARMA fundraiser – very strange!
“Everything we have seen in American politics since 1978 indicates that it is the “centrists” – those espousing and implementing a corporate neoliberalism – who achieve that empowerment, by depressing the base and alienating the swing voters.”
and of course theres nothing like voting for everything they want to empower the far right
your right and wrong. gore would would have been credible on greenhouse gasses. its unlikley (but not impossible) he would have begun two full scale wars that lasted beyond his terms in reaction to 9-11. and those are huge points, true. but his social and economic policy was at least as conservative as clintons and he was no progessive of the issues most important to progressive; health care, peace, civil rights, economic justice.
Gore did not inspire progressives and if he had, he might not have been shut down by the court order that installed Bush 2.
Progressives are always right (I disagree with very little in these blogs and comments) but always taking it on the chin and going down close to round one. We love to exercise our superior nasty brains with details and causes of failure. It would take a book to even begin covering all of those.
We have been the victim of COHF (“cough!”)time and time again: Chronic Obstructive Historical Forgetfulness. The American people are afflicted with it but so are progressives. Americans seem to have forgotten the economic crisis handed to us by the Bushies, and progressives forget there is more than one way out. Social security began as legislation with blacks being excluded by Republicans. Improvements were made. If we don’t overcome COHF we are headed back to the nineteenth century of the super rich and the super poor.
did VP candidate Joe Lieberman play any role in your thinking, back then?
were you ‘prematurely anti-Lieberman?’
and what is with the framing ‘Gore lost’?
he won, but refused to fight, setting a rather bad precedent and being the proximate cause of 8 years of Cheney/Bush.
Naderitis is tired, retroactive scapegoating, but who cares, it doesn’t work anymore, the base is staying away in droves, their nether regions sore from Hope-n-Change©.
Like I said, WWII rebuilt productive capacity and by the time that got humming at the end of the 40s AND the productive capacity of other industrialized nations was demolished, the US had a monopoly and that ended the depression.
That boom began to end for the US in the 1970s by the time that Japan and Germany, and the rest of Europe to some extent, rebuilt their productive capacity and began to out compete the US. That process is winding down with finality right now with disastrous consequences for the US.
Instead of a progressive response to this, we’re seeing nothing from Obama but neoliberal orthodoxy, the same crap that got us into this.
I’m hoping that, since we’ve gotten through 2009, it’s down to 7 years.
I am ashamed to admit I voted for Gore, since Obama has proved Nader right.
I believe Gore would have gotten us into the war too. Lieberman was his vp. Martin Peretz was his mentor. Clinton, Kerry and Edwards all voted for it. His dlc social circle all supported the war so why wouldn’t he? If he was that into the environment then he would have pressured Clinton. Gore like a lot of politicians became a better man when he retired.
Social Security as well as Medicare began as a (gov.) public programs, which is why a public option was so important. With a PO we could conceive of expanding and building up towards Universal Health Care. Without a PO, there is nowhere you can add or build upon to attain Health equality and justice.
If Democrats are not for Human rights then they are scum and should be treated appropriately.
Help defeat Coakley, and maybe we’ll get Medicare for all out of reconciliation.
Go Scott Brown!!!
but that is where the marxist narrative play into the hands of the neoliberals. You are denying the a strong government helps when you say that the new deal did nothing, and it was just ww2. So then Obama gets support for doing nothing, and leaving it to big business. It also contradicts the plain facts.
“falling in line behind weak, ineffectual, corporate Democrats.” much is being said about what, if the democrat loses in massachucetts special election, it portends for the democrats. does it, or does it like the deeds campaign, illustrate what poor candidates these were in message and campaign?
in my opinion, the anger leading to depressed voter turnout is more about not what has been done but rather what has not. we americans, and progressives in particular, voted for the changes espoused by then candidate obama. we did not vote for compromise, watered down, bi-partisan when one of the partners wants only you to fail, sausage making, special interests and special deals.
we voted for the solutions then senator obama campaigned on – green energy to bring back manufacturing, jobs, creativity and innovation and weaning us off foreign oil, health care reform to rein in the lack of competition, price gouging, tyrannical health care industry and finally true banking reform and regulation. as a wise person said, “too big too fail,” mean you have a monopoly.
we progressives need to think about the state democratic committees that pick and/or allow these ineffectual, ambivalent candidates to begin with.
Right, and government had no role in spending money to shape the economy by investing trillions in war industrialism.
WWII worked as the tractor that began to dig the US out of the muck because it the context of the rest of the world laying in shambles. Endless war paid with endless debt will not work now because war is so much less labor intensive, so much more capital and technology intensive, that the way that it generates and distributes profits will not be broad enough to create the repurposable industrial capacity.
Irrespective, the appetite of the American ruling elite for the blood of toddlers is insatiable, Klinton, Gore, Bush or Obama, they find ways to satisfy their need to grind lives to dust in order to turn a trick.
you believed that stuff from the Candidate? not everyone did, and it is this point of view that turned out to have predictive validity.
“No matter who wins the election”?
Isn’t it true that Progressives worked hard to get Lamont elected, but that Lieberman was still re-elected?
The claim that America is really much further to the Left is largely revealed to be a misunderstanding in one election after another. In which states do you think you’re going to get these far-Lefties elected?
I think there are some states where we might have more Progressive Senators in time, but there aren’t many and we have to have the candidates with plenty of campaign resources. Maybe it hasn’t happened because the public just isn’t *that* far Left.
We could elect 80 Dem Senators and probably still not have more Progressive types than we have today. There simply aren’t so many far-Lefties in America to elect a lot of them to the Senate.
We need the 60 NOW to get what we can NOW.
Vote for Coakley.
what, you repeat my point, don’t do the research, and don’t discuss Tom’s analysis of WW II’s affect on the economy.
Quote some research. Provide some evidence for you otherwise baseless assertions. Or are baseless assertions your only skill set?
We’ve already seen what happens when we play ball, and wait our turn–we get kicked in the Stupak or the NAFTA. Time to try something different.
If they want to pass that corporate crap, why don’t they wait until the last 2 years of their term?
Uh, I read about this back in college and think I’ve got a clue as to what went on, its all about comparative advantage.
This thread is about MA Senate, and the collapse of the Democrats, not the depression or WWII. Reasonable minds can differ on that.
The activist government “liberal” solution here is to usurp the ability of private finance to reap returns that consume capital otherwise destined for the productive economy and devise demand side stimulus to transition there.
The depression and WWII are dissimilar to the current situation for a variety of reasons that I’m not going to get into now to the extent that the basis for useful comparison is limited.
The issue here is not that the Democrats are disagreeing with a small faction of progressives, rather that where the general public through polling agrees with progressives, the Democrats are doing just the opposite.
It is not like progressives are so marginalized that nobody agrees with us on anything.
because tens of thousands of dollars from Pharma and the insurance cartel might not be enough – they still need some peasants to vote against their interests!
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Vote for Coakley.
There is no such thing as a pre-digested Democracy.
why are you determined to avoid acknowledging this?
a vote for Coakley is a vote for these guys:
[MarkH sticks fingers in ears, continues with nyah-nyah-nyah-I-can't-hear-you]
thanks to Gitchegumee for the original link, which (D) apologists have been resolutely ignoring since Friday.
So, how can one reconcile Ms.Coakley’s obviously contradictory statements about abortion?
Coakley’s abortion remarks spur flap – 18 hours ago
By Dave Wedge Martha Coakley’s comments to a New Bedford radio host about religious taboos sparked a media flap over abortion as the race for US Sen. …
Boston Herald – 30 related articles »
Martha Coakley’s abortion remarks spur flap – BostonHerald.comJan 16, 2010 … Martha Coakley’s comments to a New Bedford radio host about religious taboos sparked a media flap over abortion as the race for US Sen.
news.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid… – 7 hours ago
No Child Left Behind?
Teaching to the test and doing politics to the test go well together.
Continue your partisan hack wank a thon, I’m going to the gym to actually do something.
I had something else to do and had to leave.
I’m back now, for a while.
If you sit this one out with your pompous, ahistorical “holier than thou” attitude, you do ensure the victory of the right wingers who oppose everything you stand for.
And if you think there’s no difference between Coakley and Brown, than I guess you really don’t care about womens’ rights, health care, foreign policy, etc, etc (or you’re just not paying attention, because it’s more fun to attack). Please grow up, or get ready for Pres Palin and the return of the reactionaries.
(PS: the author suggests he learned how his support for Nader led to Bush II, Iraq, etc, etc, but from most of his post I don’t think he digested the lessons. You’re going down that same road.)
(PPS: I agree we need more progressive Dems, but the time for that fight is in the primary, not now. Sheeesh.)
But, now I have to go again.
If Coakley isn’t elected nothing will get done.
If Coakley is elected stuff will happen.
The voter gets to choose.
Vote for Coakley.
great! a new link surfaced about the fundraiser, brought to our attention by Liveoak:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/01/15-10
very very curious to hear why ‘progressives’ should align themselves with a candidate so clearly owned by such interest groups?
vote for nobody.
edited – drat! 2 minutes too late and he has bravely turned tail and fled. draw your own conclusions.
@171
Coakley’s abortion remarks spur flap – 18 hours ago
By Dave Wedge Martha Coakley’s comments to a New Bedford radio host about religious taboos sparked a media flap over abortion as the race for US Sen. …
Boston Herald – 31 related articles »
Martha Coakley’s abortion remarks spur flap – BostonHerald.comJan 16, 2010 … Martha Coakley’s comments to a New Bedford radio host about religious taboos sparked a media flap over abortion as the race for US Sen.
news.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view.bg?articleid… – 7 hours ago
Without sounding arrogant, how long have I said this?
If you sit this one out with your pompous, ahistorical “holier than thou” attitude, you do ensure the victory of the right wingers who oppose everything you stand for.
That is exactly right.
It was ridiculous when Ralph Nader said there is no difference in the two parties and it is ridiculous now when you say it. You’ve already forgotten when the likes of George W. Bush and Newt Gingrich ran the government?
I swear, some of you folks will never learn.
i credited you on the origin of that link, see my #167.
hi! last night I was asking to be enlightened with a few of the vital, essential differences that you claim exist, that are so obvious that to not see them is to be ‘ridiculous.’
amazingly, no one came up with any!
perhaps you will be the great Democratic Defender who will provide the links that will school the doubters, and heal the rift that is sending countless thousands of the Democratic base drifting away from the Donkey Farm!
we await some links – and throw in more insults as well, just for fun!
I’m sure of it. Recently added, too, a lot of them.
Well, since you’ve never shown any signs of understanding when anyone does answer one of your questions, I’m not surprised.
Spork, God bless you, i saw your earlier acknowledgment.
I think my comment was more along the lines of a rhetorical statement.
Namaste.
Pres. Obama made a tactical error…in that, if he surrounded himself with the Clinton gang and Rahm Emmanuel’s strategy,less the Clinton drama, he will have a “two-term” presidency…
But as Hillary found out, after a compilation of Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton then the icing on the cake – Bush Jr, the citizenry was going to have low tolerance for anymore major screw-ups to a decent American lifestyle…
cheers, G!
it’s been fun, let me know if MarkH ever gets back to you about your link, y’know, the one that says:
’til next time!
If elected, Coakley will vote for the greatest restriction on abortion since Clinton and Reno allowed intimidation to reign.
hey, i’m with you on the mistakes the dems make in depressing the base but please, PLEASE, don’t try and run that jive about nader. sorry pal but that clueless egomaniac fuc**ed over america, but good. you didn’t think gore was your idea of perfection? well great, mr. pure & beneficient – how did you enjoy the subsequent eight years.
nader makes me puke. and so does that slop you just served up. i hope there’s a place in hell for bush. and i hope that ralphie boy is sitting right next to him.
How could we forget? Most all of the same policies, some of them actually made worse, are still in place!
If all the Democrats have left is to blame their base, then they’re toast already.
If Clinton had not cherry picked Congress from swing districts for his cabinet and had not passed NAFTA, Gingrich would probably not have become Speaker.
Well I’m glad I’m a liberal and not a teabagging “progressives”. You know liberals who passed Medicare and civil rights, not teabagging “progressives” who voted against the “corporatist” Al Gore and got Bush elected by voting for Nader. Just shows the utter cluelessness of the FDLers and other teabagging “progressives.”
Romo, I have to say….I read most every comment at FDL every day, and have to say that I have yet to see you make a positive contribution to any thread.
Did I miss one somewhere over the holidays?
I have yet to see Jane Hamsher make a contribution to this country besides empowering teabaggers like Norquist and their propaganda tools like Faux News.
Sometime just before the holidays, you decided that you were going to come visit us at the Lake and invest your time sharing your wisdom with us.
But now you tell me that the site owner has yet to
So, I guess my simple question is….why are you still investing your time here?
Hopefully I can change some minds. Maybe I can somehow persuade people not to be deluded nihilistic purity trolls.
Nice try, but the fact is that the best you can do is suggest that the blog owner is a “purity troll”?
Perhaps your time would be better invested here
Or capitalist unemployment farm. Work would be nice.
It would be nice to organize behind something one believed in.
Or for that matter Bugs Bunny as President and Daffy Duck as VP, for all their equal likelihood of attaining such offices.
Are they? What real evidence is there that Rahm et al. are paying attention to progressives?
We can only hope!
Coke adds life.
Vote for Coakley.
And work our asses off every dang day to make that hope a reality.
You with me?
It must have been Nader’s deciding vote on the Supreme Court, yeah, that’s it.
First I’d need a candidate to support.
I don’t have a candidate either, but I get up every morning and do what I can to help support organizing around progressive issues.
Can we agree to do that, or are you going to wait until the candidate of your dreams appears before you?
Although I now hold several elected positions within my local and state Democratic Party here in California, I was a volunteer for the Nader campaign that fateful fall
There is absolutely no reason–NONE WHATSOEVER–for any progressive interested in preventing the right wing from completely taking over this country, to ever listen to a former Nader volunteer on strategy.
EVER.
Excellent post…very well written piece. Thank you.
The Obama volunteers I know do not feel too good about how things turned out either. They feel totally betrayed. The Supreme Court determined the 2000 vote, not the voters, and certainly not the Nader voters here in CA. Florida should have been redone, but the Dems caved in (surprise!)
Didn’t Rham say there where no more progressives to get? Get them early and gut them. Now progressives aren’t gotten. Poor Rham :-(. Have noone yet realized that with 59 Senators Lieberman is no longer a critical vote?
So Rhams briliant strategy is, get progressives early, gut them – cut a deal with Lieberman to ditch Medicare buyin and public option, institute mandates and call progressives whiners, then lose a seat in one of the bluest state that has been a democratic seat for generations… wow! And this guy still has a job and is looked at as some kind of political savant? YIKES!!!
I’m new to FDL and finding out there are a lot of pissed off progressives here– a good mirror image of myself. Where we differ is in choosing our fights. Take Coakley down along with health care and a Presidency? I’m not infantile enough to go there. Think like a general and regroup for the next big fight, but don’t shoot yourself in the foot and surrender.
hi and welcome to fdl
You mean the Dems on the Supreme Court? What are you talking about? What reality do you think we’re in?
Thank you for the common sense.
I’m not a progressive. “Socialist” or “anarchist” would be closer, although neither of those terms says enough.
Gereld Celente, political atheist and futurist extrodinaire says revolution and a viable 3rd party are in our future. Ron Paul just gave a speech in congress saying we should brace ourselves for revolution. I welcome it. For decades the government has been in the grips of a bi-partisan mafia intent on enriching themselves and enslaving the rest of us. Eventually even a smooth talking liar like Rahmaobama becomes unavoidably transparent. He can’t change; he is what he is (scum). Be we can prepare for the future one in which out-right criminality by those whose desire to govern is no longer tolerated.