But Dick and Spawnette Cheney (once again given a Sunday forum to lie with near complete impunity — thanks again George Stephanopoulos you’ve served your corporate masters well this week) are egregiously wrong yet again:
…after 9-11, 828 people [have been tried] on terrorism charges in civilian courts. At the time of publication of this excellent report from the Center on Law and Security, NYU School of Law last year, trials were still pending against 235 of those folks. That leaves 593 resolved indictments, of which 523 were convicted of some crime, for a conviction rate of 88%.
With regard to military tribunals, the Bush administration inaugurated 20 such cases. So far just three convictions have been won.
So in traditional criminal courts, the backbone of our constitutional system, 88% conviction rate. In the allegedly AWESOME military tribunals 15%.
But as always in conservative arguments the lesser solution is the “right” choice not because of the facts but because it sounds more ‘badass’.
It’s pretty much the totality of all current talking points from the Republican Party.
(pic from here)




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You misspelled “… but because it enables concealment of war crimes.”
Maybe that’s why the Cheney gang are angling for military tribunals:
They think it helps Dick’s chances of avoiding conviction for treason and war crimes.
Oh, who am I kidding? Obama would never put his cousin through that ordeal.
Look forward, not backward, etc.
I heard that 2 out the 3 convicted are now free in their home Countries, and the third got life.
It seems to me that if you want to lock them up and throw away the key, your best bet is Federal court.
Would the underwear bomber’s Dad have told American officials about his suspicions about his son if he thought we would use “enhanced interrogation” techniques on him, or deny him the same rights we give to American murderers? How about the unibomber’s brother?
Good morning, pups. It’s The Pasty Little Putz and Krugman today. His Holiness The Pasty Little Putz sends down from on high a thing called “Let’s Talk About Faith.” He wonders if the call by a cable news analyst for Tiger Woods to convert to Christianity went too far. I’ll bet you can’t guess which side of that debate Mr. “I’m a convert to Roman Catholicism and you’re going to hell” Putz came down on. Mr. Krugman, in “Learning From Europe,” says despite what conservatives claim, Europe has a successful economy and a social democracy that works.
Here they are.
The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and the biscuits are out of the oven. I’ve been outside to feed the porch kittehs so I’m headed off to thaw out (it’s 22° out there) with another cup of tea. Stay warm, and have a great day.
Sounds rather like that other “holier than thou” prick Robert Novak who, of course, went all the way to the mad house with his conversion by becoming an opus dei. Some crazy people out there.
Ooops morning all.
Murder trial begins today and it could well turn into a farce with an idiot judge.
Good morning everyone.
It’s not as though defendents get a fair trial in regular courts either.
Hey it’s 22 around here too…in the afternoon. This time of year, we call that a heat wave.
Bottomed out at 2 night before last, 5.5 last night. A warming trend.
As long as you are a white male with a hefty bank account there should be a fair trial, no problem. For those who are females and/or black and/or poor there may well be a few problems…getting a competent defense attorney may well be one.
My son said it might make it up to 32 this week. He is up in Minot.
Thanks for the great post, attaturk. That’s useful information for the WH to use. Of course as soon as it’s asked an answered, or if it is, the press will immediately pivot to talk about the all-important-Sunday-nightly-news-leading Reid gaffe.
That way they can pretend they didn’t hear those stats while giving the Republicans open mics to keep right on pounding their chests.
yep. We bottomed at 20 below [around 50 below windchill].
News circulating that Governor Hoeven is announcing today [6 pm] whether he’ll run for the Dorgan seat. I don’t think he’s the shoo-in that the national Repubs are telling him he is.
‘course if he runs and wins they’ll be doing all the telling, so he might as well get used to it.
Minot’s Hoeven’s homebase. A looooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng way across some mighty bleak prairie to get to Minot.
Mr. Marion in Savannah had a happy thought this morning — he thinks that maybe now that Congress is back from vacation they’ll generate enough hot air to end the cold snap…
My short version is that the entity with the most $$ wins. Usually that’s the gubmint. White males come in close to the top too.
You get the “right to complain” prize, both on temps and on politics. *g*
Well, at that HuffPo link it said Snuffy’s moving to Good Morning America. That’s good, isn’t it? It’s more of the fluffy kind of show he would fit in on. Maybe someone a little less fluffy will take over on the ABC Sunday morning show.
I’m trying to see the glass as half full here.
Good morning, pups. 19 degrees here in NW Indiana, headed for a balmy 26. With 80% chance of snow. Sure wish I could crawl back into the waterbed.
Think I will pass on the Putz. Not a good way to start a week!
He is the one who who allowed rudy Ghouliani to say, unchallenged, that the US wasn’t attacked under Bush. That was on Good Morning America.
For all you eastern pups – we will be up into the mid fifties all week.
The warmup should be heading your way.
Hard to imagine someone more brainless than that.
In the 10-day forecast, the highest temp listed is 36. So WTF? Besides, my bees need 50+ before they get out of the hive to relieve themselves.
More analysis from lala land.
Oh.
Jesus, they let Rudy on GMA? Holy shit.
Hw will probably need his sidekick George Will and Lizard Cheney to tell him what to think.
Yeah, remember the daze of “America’s mayor.” Boy, were people duped after 9/11.
democracynow’s special report today is on white power movement.
Probably standing alone in the corner again here but it seems reasonable to say simply because the military tribunal has a lower conviction rate doesn’t to prove that the civilian system was more effective or more just.
If one is concerned about justice in tribunals, one must be concerned about defendants railroaded into a conviction. If the civilian court really has much higher conviction rates then that implies that the bar is higher in the tribunal or that the cases are not comparable. Convictions successes are not the same thing as car sales.
Yeah, only white males are able to buy their own justice *cough*OJSimpson*cough*
Rich people being able to get better lawyers is a real problem. Throwing the race/sex card out there for the hell of it hurts any chance of a real discussion on the topic.
Besides, I’m with temptingfate, the conclusion being made here is bunk, though I think for different reasons. My guess is that if they’re being tried in a civilian court, we’re already pretty sure we have enough evidence to win. If we don’t, they’re being sent to the military tribunals. Therefore it’s not shocking that the cases where we’re using military tribunals we’re having a harder time getting convictions – it’s likely because of the cases they see, not because they’re necessarily less effective.
In Chicago, there was a criminal court judge who was known for lecturing the woebegotten mopes appearing before him, saying something to the effect of “Son, you don’t appear to be a rich man, and screwing up and committing crimes is a rich man’s game. A poor man will usually lose when trying to play a rich man’s game, so my advice to you is that you should stay out of trouble because you are simply too poor to play this game successfully”
I won’t disagree with that as part of the scenario since I don’t know the details.
My concern is around idea that high conviction rates are the same thing a better justice system.
Without any knowledge, it seems possible to assume that the lawyers on military tribunals might be more equally matched in terms of resource, unlike civilian courts where the prosecutor almost always has the deeper pockets. Simpson and the other examples of wealth not withstanding.
A tortured father/daughter relationship.