Well, in deference to our occasional guest, Seminal diarist, and Book Salon author, I’d remind New Yorkers they have a not-holding-your-nose choice in the Democratic primary, the proud progressive labor-friendly antiwar candidate, Jonathan Tasini.

Google Jonathan Tasini if you don’t know him. I think you’ll like what you learn.

And vote for him if you can.

On board with the women, and no Harold Ford, but the principals Cynthia:

No Tassini?

I owe you a beverage Teddy!

The one candidate worth supporting, even for women, is a man, Jonathan Tasini. He’s been here several times, here’s a recent appearance, and here’s his BlueAmerica link.

Ford is detestable, unthinkable. Gillibrand it is.
Thanks Cynthia.

Never two brain farts on the same subject in the same day. Or at least not until I get a lot more senile (or drunk).

As a woman, I could give a FF about the gender of the pol. I’m for the one that will represent my interests. Gillibrand and Molinari, definitely not. VandenHeuvel, maybe, but she’s somewhat of an Obamabot, so maybe not.

Alright Cynthia!! Fun read but an important cause for women to be truly equal in all ways…

Not Gillibrand, Tasini. See my link @ 4.

I actually am a fan of Tasini’s. I wish his candidacy had more traction.

Are you ruling out Katrina?

We’re trying to get traction for him. Would be a lot better than Gillibrand, and arguably better than vandenHeuval.

Not to rain on the parade, but CA and ME both have two women Senators, and I wouldn’t call either pair God’s gift to gender equality.

I am.

ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! specialy Feinstein…ahhh

Thanks. You introduced a subject on which I, a female, love to opine. Females in power tend to be just like the alpha males in power. No reason to expect a sea change, mainly because a female has to out-alpha a male to be elected. Saw it personally on Wall St., and the intellectual underpinning is in Ludwig’s King of the Mountain.

Oh, Peterr, it’s not just about electing a woman–we’ve done that often enough that it’s no longer a novelty.

It’s about all the major contenders being women.

ECAHN I couldn’t agree more…

Let’s go gender blind then for just a second; what’s it going to take to get a Progressive in the seat? Isn’t that the big deal?

I think it should be a gender neutral of who is the most progressive candidate for the office and their past record!..

edit glass of wine or what Kelly?

Millions of dollars, a unmistakably fearless candidate, and keeping the Clinton’s hands off the race.

heh. I owe Monsieur Partridge, so ask him!

Gender blind would be great if we could have the musician audition behind a curtain and s/he could walk onstage in shoes that didn’t reveal the gender. Howwwever, barring that, it seems like looking at issues is the next best thing, in which case Tasini comes out on top. Links at 4.

Understood.

But I just have to say from my art life and my activist life, there are tons of reasons to NOT do something.

I wouldn’t be testing myself and trying to learn/play the A-flat Chopin Ballade (A New Year’s Resolve thing.) I picked it because I love it and it’s fucking HARD!

Just doing the easy leads to suckitude IMO.

For me, this is only a celebration of the fact that a field of all women running in a big state is not some weird curiosity.

That to me means progress. We take it for ranted when the entire field is a bunch of middle aged white men. How cool is it that a field of all women, is hardly worth mention?

Well, except by me, I guess.

Three women? So what?

It’s a big deal to me.

It’s great that so many women are running. I never cared for Molinari and isn’t she somewhat “yesterday?”
Seems like decades ago that she was in DC.

I would never say don’t go for it. I’m saying gear up for it.
The most Progressive woman would be Katrina, and I don’t want that.
We have to get ready to back Jon Tasini, and we have to know what lies ahead.

What’s it going to take to get a progressive in the seat?

Money. Lots of money. You are talking about the most expensive media market in the country. You are also talking about a state party apperatus that got rid of McCarthy, Maloney and Bishop by drying up their fundraising.

So, if vanden Huevel is getting wooed by big donors, that makes me sit up and take notice. B/C it’s only if the donors snub that party chair that you have any chance. You would need a donor revolt

We take it for ranted

Wonderful typo.

But I disagree with your premise. It is NOT progress if we elect alpha females. It IS progress if we elect progressives. Gender is a red herring, and a particularly insidious one, since it may blind female voters to their true interests. Think, for example, I saw a post earlier today that no female pol fought against the Stupak amendment. Who needs those women?

Dang! Didn’t mean to pee on your cake. I think you’re top drawer!

Lemme just say, look, I’d love it if it was all gay candidates in my district. But if they were a millimeter to the Right of Diana DeGette, No Soup!

Three women? So what?

You see, THAT’s what I’m talking about. I am happy to finally live in a world where its no biggee!

Ford has the donors.

Washington state too!

There’s a commenter hereabouts who says that women who succeed in high-male professions (like business and politics) get ahead by being more male than the men, and less sympathetic to women’s interests. I would have held Barbara Boxer up as a counter-argument until her shameful performance in Connecticut for Joe Lieberman and now her compromise on the Nelson language in #hcr.

That commenter would be me.

This is going to sound weird, but…

When my family moved to Virginia I was in high school. There was a remnant in Fairfax County schools that the powerless student senate in each high school had two representatives from each of the four classes. One was a boy, one was a girl.

While such a rule would disenfranchise the Boxer/Feinstein axis and the Bangor Sisters (although I suppose they’d be grandmothered in) why not try for a constitutional amendment that one Senator from each state had to be a woman? Or, even better, double the size of the Senate and elect 100 women and 100 men.

Do the same in the House: 435 women, 435 men. We know our Congress has become very unrepresentative; doubling its size would be a good start. Build in gender equality while we’re at it.

I knew that. *g*

*winks at crowd*

Oh, come on blog commenters, exhale already. There won’t be blood.

Does anti war mean anti any war, or anti Iraq war, or anti Afghan war. There are prominent Republican bloggers who became Progressive because of their opposition to the Iraq war, so it gets fuzzy. Is Arianna or Sullivan anti any war. How about Markos. Anti Bush wars, but Ok Obama wars. What is the Progressive position on national defense.

Just an addition to my comment about Susan Molinari. She left Congress in 1997. Does anyone still know who she is in NY? She is also very conservative.

425 women, 435 men

Nice try. Gonna almost double the house, but not quite give girls the equality?

More seriously, if “equality” were mandated, that might start to chip away at the alpha female problem.

Please add the TXan Kay to the group.

Forgive me for being a bit of an incrementalist, but I had zero hope for a progressive actually getting elected.

I have watched for months as all the credible primary challengers were bullied out of the race, so the only bright side to this that I see is the fact that field of all women is not considered a freak show.

If you all wanted to get a true progressive into a position where they might actually win, you would have needed to start about a week after Gilly got appointed. Cause that’s when the flying monkeys started clearing the field for her.

If you expanded beyond gender alone, and took race/gender into account via the Census, guess what?

You’d have Progressive Nation. In other words just about exactly how America polls on many many issues..

WAR? no
PO? yes

Etc.

The progressive position is as broad and all-encompassing as the GOP or conservative position, considering that Dick Cheney and Ron Paul are both conservative members of the GOP. Looking for a coherent position from either party or either part of the spectrum on national defense is difficult. There are opponents and proponents of the military-industrial Empire on both sides.

Ford is so much worse than Gilly. He is anti choice, anti marriage equality, I cannot see someone like respresenting NY.

Understood. Just dreaming. I snore too, so there it is. *g*

The difference between the Rs and the Ds is that the latter thinks the U.S. should bomb for humanitarian reasons too.

I say, accumulate any antiwar votes for any reason possible. If, under the unlikely outcome, that you can actually STOP the U.S. from conducting war on no cause whatsoever, the antiwar forces can have plenty of fun “warring” amonst themselves.

It’s not a field of all women. Ford has the finances, and Tasini is the true progessive, both of whom are males.

What do you think about having two chameleons (Ford and Gilly) alongside a clear progressive (Tasini)? I think that would give Chuck Schumer some sleepless nights, and they might be happening right about now.

870 people in the House? It’s already like herding cats. But if we do that, let’s just get rid of the Senate. I can’t imagine 200 people who think they are gods racing for the cameras every day.

But he says he will work to remove the anti-abortion language from the health care bill if elected to the Senate! Surely we are going to accept that someone can evolve on such a critical issue. Perhaps being in such a more liberal area has helped his views evolve. Or maybe his statewide ambitions have helped.

Remember that Gilly was a marriage equality opponent and NRA supporter until her appointment, so she doesn’t have much room to charge position-opportunism.

Molinari was part of the Contract for America crowd. She is very conservative–and I don’t think she actually has a real chance of winning.

Could Schumer be convinced that Tasini could raise the bucks?

Surely we are going to accept that someone can evolve on such a critical issue.

Gag. Spit. Barf. Surely you are not that naive, Teddy.

You’re correct, women are capable of being corrupted by money to the exact same degree as men. But, electing progressives may also be a red herring, as in “progressive” Lynn Woolsey supporting Jane Harman.

Schumer is a wall st whore. He’ll support Ford, Merrill Lynch shill.

I think a lot depends on how tomorrow’s Oval Office meeting with the big labor bosses goes. If they come away convinced that they have to take a dive on #hcr affordability, and that they won’t get EFCA unless they do, why not buck the party they are currently dancing with to support a real friends of the working American?

I don’t think it will happen, but there are scenarios you can construct where it could happen.

Surely you know I do not use snark tags

I would love to see Marcy Winograd beat Jane Harman and then challenge Lynn Woolsey to be chair of the Prog Caucus. What Woolsey is doing in supporting Jane Harman is unforgivable. It’s exactly the kind of incumbency protection racket we’ve fought against for so long.

Think it not money (though important) as much as power. Don’t know about the Woolsey thing, so would like a link or a more detailed explanation.

I love Jon Tasini, but absent some bizarre confluence of events, he does not have a shot in hell. I am confining myself to people who actually have the ability to mount a full campaign.

And Ford may have had conversations with big donors, but it seems they are also talking to vanden Heuvel, so I will wait to see who actually converts that to $ in a campaign account.

But he’s cleared the field for Gilly, unless she was a stalking horse for Ford all along. Maybe there’s a swell Obama Admin job for Gilly somewhere; after all, being appointed doesn’t really mean she’ll ever need to serve.

Link icon not working here tonight.

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7635

Surely I did not know you did not use snark tags. But now I know. But surely I would sugest you use them in the future as many as as stupid as I am.

Howie Klein has the story

But what is the “why” of Tasini not having a chance in hell? Name? Money?

What’re the fundamentals of the un-electability of Tasini? I’m not being snarky or argumentative.

Jon never raises any real money and he doesn’t recruit significant numbers of volunteers. Schumer loses zero sleep over Jon..
I admire Jon because he spends tons of time making sure that progressive issues at least get discussed during the race.
If it weren’t for Jon, these issues would be totally ignored

Don’t call me Shirley!

For me, it’s best to assume any comment is meant less than heartfeltedly, except when we have guests or book salon or particularly daft trolls. I just think it’s more fun to challenge people’s assumptions without a /s. I mean, didn’t you wonder just for a minute if I really WAS that naive?

(….okay, /s)

But what are the dynamics of a three-person race?

You’re deposing! You devil, you got an answer ready on either side!

edit: Let the deponent answer.

Didn’t Caroline Kennedy say at one point that she was going to get serious and run this time around?

A 3 person race meaning Gilly, Molinari and Tasini on the Working Families line?

No, really, a three-person primary: Gilly, Ford, Tasini.

I don’t think KvH is serious, but I could be wrong. Weirder things have happened. Hell, Gore Vidal ran for the Senate in California after running for Congress from the Hudson Valley in NY.

Well, okay, that too. Is Jonathan committed to staying on the ballot in the general? Did he do that in 06?

I think Kennedy just said that, you know, to talk tough. I don’t blame her.

Look, Ford is getting lots of press, let’s see if he actually raises volunteers and moolah. Vanden Huevel only sent out some tweets, let’s see if she fields a campaign committee with the Board of Elections.

Molinari, like Ford is getting press, but right this minute, there are only two people with campaign committees (campaign accounts) Tasini and Gillibrand.

Molinari (or at least her dad, former Staten Island boro president Guy Molinari)knows how t get up and running quickly.

a three-person primary: Gilly, Ford, Tasini

Ooooh, you’re thinking that if Gilly and Ford split the neaderthal vote, that Tasini could sneak in with less than 50% of the vote?

Geez, we are so f’d. Not that I didn’t know it. I’m a defeatist and trying to keep myself from defeatism. Ain’t workin’.

keeping the Clinton’s hands off the race.

The key to every race, bar none.

Had my fill of the Clintons. Certainly don’t want more of the Clintons-by-proxy we’ve got now.

Dear eCAHNomics,
I know personal stuff is kind of off limits,,,,,but, you hurt my feelings with your “toss-off” comment equating homeschoolers as a second class citizenship.
As a woman who made gut wrenching choices to homeschool, with a husband who sacrificed salary to do the same… It hurts. The main point of homeschooling for us was to raise our children to be strong, independent , critical thinkers with life skills and hobbies. It fucking, amazingly worked ! Not without angst from parents and grandparents…SHOULD we test them?. Or keep them out of the system. Some of the most favorite school teachers who were doing alternative classes advised us not to register them with the system until/unless we got caught, to avoid the BULLSHIT of testing. We DID it! Got them through to 18 **Magic Number*** without testing and dumbing down.
We would do it all over.
I think you probably don’t actually know any homeschooled young people personally.
We are Socialist Democratic.
It would be healing to be recognized as a subsection of our society without the prejudice.
Peace

In 06 Tasini never quit talking and trying to get into the debates. He was a powerhouse of effort.

I really admire him. Even though Hillary would not debate him, he forced her to talk about his/our issues.

I really am a fan of Jon’s

I forgot to say that the comment was not in this thread. Sorry. It was a couple days ago and I’ve been thinking on it since then. *g*

Link to my comment that you found so offensive?

Sounds like you haven given a gift to your Kids!! I applaud you. I have some idea what you have done, I had to use the public system for my kids with great results. The parenting is vitally to our youngens…

“…Ford may have had conversations with big donors, but it seems they are also talking to Van der Huvel, so I will wait to see who actually converts that to $ in a campaign account.

Interesting, do you know who ‘they’ are?

I’m not being trollish, but I really want to understand why Tasini isn’t electable.

Is it that he has a shitty operational machine/knowledge to break through?

Thought so.

TBogg is upstairs!
Harold Ford is a renegade mavericky rogue who goes his own way…. Just kidding. He’s an opportunistic asshole.

okay – so I need to study up on Tasini.

In the meantime, I love the idea of Katrina V. raising hell in the Senate. She could/would be a breath of Alan Grayson-ish fresh air in that stuffy clubhouse.

At least part of it is that he is a decent fellow. In Chuck Schumer’s state, that doesn’t get you noticed, although it should.

I like the idea of Katrina as a senator. She knows how to debate, she is a progressive, and she’s tough.

You’re not being a troll. He just doen’t raise enough money or volunteers

by several orders of magnitude

Yup. A three-way primary favors the most long-term progressive, not the converts.

Ford is an opportunistic asshole

I’m glad Tbogg writes for the same blog as moi

moi, 2.

OK, thanks got it.

It’s just so different there in a Sen. race. I’m just very curious because I’m wanting to run for Denver City Council in ’12.

I already talked with one “alleged” consultant, but got a very terse reply which I found true:

“Who the fuck is HE? Did he write a book or something?”

I gulped hard. And I’m thinking, “all right you sonofabitch, all those gay homeless kids you hate at Rainbow House? The people at CAP? The people at the Denver Food Bank? They shall become my Baker Street Irregulars.”

Next thought was “Book? Jesus Christ. Start scribbling. Now.”

I can’t link without spending 30 minutes.Dial up. I do not want to sound like I’m attacking you. I’m begging for Mercy. The point isn’t the comment which was a derogatory remark about Teabaggers, “homeschooling at it’s finest”.
So, most Teabaggers don’t homeschool. It’s a fucking enormous amount of commitment to time with kids in the house. Homeschool Teabaggers are Libertarians.
The Libertarians homeschool for the same reasons the Socialist Democrats and other non-religious folks homeschool. We don’t want our kids dumbed down and distracted from their potential. We want them to learn small gasoline engines instead of geography. We want them to have the time to incorporate Suzuki Violin into their day because they’re so fucking bored!!! There’s a lot to be said for boredom building interests when you limit the “socializing” to a low hum.

or four or five? The NY race could be one for the history books.

Guerrilla tactic. Make up some quarter sheet flyers about whatever and put them in books at Borders, B & N, wherever. Don’t ignore the Romance or Mystery sections. Try for new releases.

Crap. I shouldn’t have brought this up because now I’m having a conversation with myself !!! I just hate that !! *g*
It’s not that we don’t learn geography. We spent 18 years with maps on the wall instead of artwork. We like to travel, so the kids learned how to navigate DC and New York subways at a tender age. They can also book hotels and air travel. On their dime.
Okay, I think I’ve said enough.

I thought of the bookstore thing already, not to dismiss what you’re saying. We have a most awesome shop here, the “Tattered Cover” and I’ll tell you what:

If the owner, Joyce Meskis, ever decided to run on a City or House level, I would totally back her. She told the feds to piss off on one of the first rounds of the Homeland Security Book subpoenas. She rocks!

Mayhaps you should encourage her or at least put a couple feelers out.

Here’s a test…

Fill in the space.

Bobby _______
Pat ________
Hillary _______

____ Tasini

Name recognition is very important. Face recognition is too. In part it indicates the establishment has allowed one to rise to the level of recognition because your abilities are at least somewhat acceptable to the public and power.

Without some acceptance you won’t be heard or seen and nobody will know who you are and therefore nobody will vote for you.

Who is recognizable in the current race?

Gillibrand is sitting senator of NY and has some recognition from that.
Ford might be recognized, but being from Tenn will be difficult to overcome.
Caroline Kennedy would be recognized, but not for being a heavyweight.

Within NY there might be some with regional support, but to have state-wide recognition usually implies some larger activity than being a ward supervisor or something.

KvH’s biggest problem would be her name’s pronunciation. For someone like that it’s best to just go big with “KATRINA” and let people get used to that.

Her second problem is she’s known to the chattering class and many Liberals (good in NYC), but not as a politician or ‘moderate’ (not good upstate).

But, if she can get the money she has a chance. She’s smart, knowledgeable, good-looking, speaks very well and has experience in the lights. In a debate she could tear up most contenders.

If it’s a 4- or 5-way race it’s hard to tell what would happen or how the fight might play out. Early big money would get each candidate a position for the long fight. That’s probably only 2 or 3 with sufficient resources.

Oh My God!!! The Tattered Cover. How awesome it’s still there. It was a main hangout of my parents in their day. As in helping them move to their “new” location; where they are now. Mine ,too, but I didn’t love them enough to help them move. How cool.
I still have some excellent cookbooks marked Tattered Cover on them.

I found a used bookseller in Denver right after I moved there in 80. Can’t remember the name. Fairly small place. I have a thing for old copies of The Count of Monte Cristo. He put it on his list to look out for. Few weeks later I had a very nice 4 volume leather bound set, 1894. Still have it. He got a lot of my business. I remember the old Powell’s in Portland, too. That was a day long adventure.

Probably everyone’s off to the next thread. But. Is there anyway to petition for more acceptance and less profiling of easily stereotyped images within our new social awareness=reaching out Idea? Strange Bedfellows. Same with Vaccines. Oh,shit, and Israel. Nevermind.
I’m sorry for referring to “Paultards”, it’s not that I don’t respect you, it’s because I’m frustrated about the Social Security Issue, Community Health Clinics Issue.Medicare. Which I consider paramount.
Doesn’t the phrase Bed Fellows come from the old days when an Inn rented out a bed by space? Can we get that close ? *g*

yeah well Schumer only likes his Jr Senator Women to be LOW KEY and not as famous as himself tho, fine for them to get him coffee as HR` used to do, but dont suggest a MALE jr senator should get the coffee or youre RAAACIST!

be careful ladies watch out for 2x4s coming from good ole Chuck

sickening

Female, Male, Pro this, Pro that…. It doesn’t matter. they are all Bots.
You are buying it hook, line and sinker.
Do you really think they will represent your individual interests? The only way you might get that is to elect a Buddhist Monk.

You are sheep.

zeitgeistmovie.com