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Several participants have posted particularly good reports on their experiences –
Phil Weiss of Mondoweiss provides a moving view of the organizing that followed the Egyptian refusal to allow the march to enter Gaza and writes:
Sitting on the stairwell, I wondered what I was doing there. The jammed space had a romance, an air of the many freedom marches before this; and the word “provocateurs” was redolent of socialist activism. I’m not a radical, but a left/liberal; the doorways for my engagement here was not solidarity with suffering people but good old self interest: my concerns about American militarism in the Middle East and Zionism in Jewish life. And yet here I was; and it occurred to me that certain injustices become so disturbing to some people, to their understanding of history, that they must take a stand, and are willing to make great sacrifices to do so; and in that sense I was also a radical, if a reluctant one.
Starhawk describes the march in Cairo which was not allowed to leave the central square but still made the point:
We all felt great about the action. Against all odds, we had done what we set out to do—to say to the Egyptian authorities and the world, “if you won’t let us go to Gaza, we’ll simply start from here and walk.” If you want to stop us, you’ll have to physically stop us—we won’t comply with your orders. And if you physically stop us, then we will have brought Gaza to Cairo—we will dramatize for the eyes of the world the situation that the people of Gaza are in. This pen, this improvised prison in the central square is another annex to the huge, open-air prison that Gaza has become, where a million and a half people live in the most densely crowded conditions on earth, where the Israelis control the borders and decide who can get in and who can get out, rationing out the necessities of life, blocking the materials of reconstruction and the means of livelihood for the Gazan people.
Alex Kane describes the experience of some student activists who did enter Gaza, bringing school supplies to the children there:
“Why the Palestinians? Why are we the only ones suffering?” asked a Palestinian girl who was probably about nine or ten-years-old. And then the enormity of what the people of Gaza go through every day hit me….
The following day, Israel carried out air strikes on Gaza once again, injuring 4 Palestinians. With no demand from the US or elsewhere for Israel to answer for its actions during Cast Lead, it looks more and more like a repeat attack is being planned. Tony Karon provides a very solid analysis of why here, concluding:
So it ought to surprise no one if, in the weeks and months ahead, there is an increase in Israeli air strikes on Hamas targets in Gaza, while efforts to end the blockade are stymied, ultimately provoking Hamas to hit back with its own rocket strikes – opening another round of fighting. Israeli media last week reported a conversation between Mr Netanyahu’s brother-in-law, Hagai Ben Artzi, and Noam Shalit, father of the captive soldier, during a protest demanding government action to free Gilad. Mr Ben Artzi rebuked the Shalit protest, saying the soldier would be freed during the “next Gaza war”. And when would that be, the captive’s father asked. Mr Ben Artzi’s answer: “Either in two months, or in six months.”
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Phil Weiss says
Said as though that is something to be ashamed of.
Is this where evolution is taking the human race? Have we reached the point where we will begin devouring each other?
1401
Sounds more like an awakening to me.
Please explain.
I’m so glad I’m on Starhawk’s email list. Amazing commentary over the last 10 days or so.
Wow, those Starhawk stories are incredible.
Thank you, Siun, I never would have known this was happening if not for you.
Could Israel really try Cast Lead Two? I mean, the repercussions for their first effort were so vast.
My unqualified opinion is that it is always a possibility and if they are entering an election cycle a near certainty.
Evening all – home sick so I’ll be quiet tonight but I wanted folks to have a sampling of the reports from GFM – there’s more at Mondoweiss as well. Both Phil Weiss and Starhawk are favorites of mine since they tell the human tales.
Count me as 1401, in spirit.
“I mean, the repercussions for their first effort were so vast.”
i’d say the repercussions were paltry. How paltry and ineffectual is, i think, evidenced in Siun’s entry.
Why no mention of the thousands of rockets that Gazans launched into Israel after Israel wrongfully and forcibly removed the 8500 Jews living there in 2005? Why no mention of the Hamas constitution, which not only calls for the destruction of Israel, but also the murder of all Jews worldwide? Why no mention of Hamas’ oppresson of women, including honor killings of women who commit adultery or are raped, persecution of homosexuals and torture and assassinations of its political opponents in Fatah? Why no mention of the lionization of suicide bomber?
The marchers in Egypt are today’s version of the Nazis, motivated by thinly disguised hatred of Jews.
Israel needs to reverse the error it made in 2005, re-take Gaza, and forcibly evict the Muslim fundamentalists. This is a war that needs to be won.
Siun, thanks for this. Just wow.
They will, and with the full acquiescence of the US. We’ll even overnight some clusterbombs and white phosphorus to them.
The Israeli govt doesn’t give a rat’s ass what the world thinks. They are a law unto themselves. God told them so.
1402
1403
1404
Origins Of Conflict In The Middle East:
The Untold Stories Of The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
Actually it’s more properly The US/Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
Too bad it won’t change anything.
this is ethnic cleansing, it’s a war crime. It makes the Iranian current transgressions against the their citizens seem farcically inept copies of Israel’s behavior. Your fervent wishes are anathema to basic human decency.
Exactly, because it wouldn’t be possible without US financial support and blessing.
1405
Gotta start somewhere.
I don’t use snark tags.
Israel takes no aggressive action of this magnitude without the support of the US govt. We are as guilty as the Israeli govt.
[Caw, Caw...]
You’re channeling Raven after you hugged him!
It will be interesting to watch Hillary perform the Condi Rice no-peace dance when Cast Lead Two begins.
I see we have been visited by a purveyor of hasbara – please don’t feed.
It was just a little something to really piss him/her off.
Agreed. Will be interesting to see SOS turn herself into a pretzel trying to explain Cast Lead Two.
keep me out of it
I suspect you are very right there.
And do it with a straight face.
Hope you’re feeling well soon. Thanks for this. An entire population imprisoned…
Can you imagine how the U.S. would react if Cuba were launching rockets into Miami, or Mexico were launching rockets into San Diego? We would quickly turn those countries into parking lots.
The U.S. and England did what was necessary to defeat the Nazis and Japanese empire, including the firebombing of Tokyo, Dresden and Berlin, and the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Had the Allies not taken the actions necessary to win the war, the world would have been enslaved. Israel is facing an enemy that seeks to destroy it. It has a moral obligation to do what’s necessary to defend its people against aggression.
Further, the so-called Palestinians are hardly friends of the U.S. Do you remember the street celebrations in Palestinian cities after 9/11? They were handing out candy to children.
Even Egypt has figured this out. Are they Zionists?
And start. And start. And start. What Israel is doing is appalling. But nothing has been effective.
And Egypt, U.S. whore, is gonna build underground barriers to cut off the tunnels that are Gaza’s only lifeline. I rip my hair out over this injustice and the inability to do anything about it.
Aloha, Siun…! Get well soon…! *g*
Israel may be a vicious dog ripping up the neighborhood but it is our vicious dog and the United States don’t recognize no stinkin’ leash law.
Yes, Siun. Never mistake my despair for not wanting to be informed. Get well soon.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery.
Do you have any concept of what ‘Disproportionate Response’ means…? Just wondering…?
Just got this in email – interesting bit of news re Israeli nuclear plans:
http://fuelcycle.blogspot.com/2009/08/israel-asks-us-to-support-n-plant.html
Can you imagine how the U.S. would respond if Cuba WERE’NT launching rockets into Miami. Thought not.
Yes, Israel and the U.S. are on the same side, and always will be. Liberal democracies tend to support each other.
Amazing how Zionism is the only national liberation movement the crackpots on the left oppose.
Something tells me she will do it with ease. Although it will be interesting to hear what she comes up with.
The doctrine of “proportionate response” does not mean that, if the Gazans launch 10 rockets per day, Israel can only launch ten rockets back. It means that Israel is allowed to do what is necessary to stop the rockets from being launched at all. How many of you believe the U.S. and British committed war crimes in World War II?
s c r o l l
40 year embargo?
Heh.
You, and eCAHN’s well known, often admired, often frustrating, often curmudgeonly, often funny, frequently contrary opinions, not to mention TO EACH OTHER are not to be contrasted or compared? Even gently?
You need another hug!
(((Raven!)))
No NPT inspection for them(with 250 nuclear warheads already), yet, God forbid, Iran is proposing a similar civilian use (under the NPT aegis)and they’re being threatened to be bombed… By Israel…! Something is seriously awry…!
Israel is not a democracy. It’s a kinda theocracy. Arab Israeli “citizens” get about 1/2 the vote of a Jewish Israeli. Just so ya know.
Siun, I hope you feel better.
You, too, Kelly (pre-emptively)
At what juncture would you classify Zionism to be ‘Liberal’…?
Ding! You get tonight’s prize, which is pumpkin flan. I made a whole recipe. First time for any kind of flan. Not perfect, but tastes like heaven. Recipe serves 10 (or more if the satisfaction from the small piece I had for dessert tonight is any measure) and I am single. So … hold out your plates.
When was the last time the winner was accused of war crimes?
Watch out! eCHAHN has a blow torch.
***holds out plate***
I really respect Obama for his stance on nuclear weapons. At least Israel is asking for world permission…
Uhmm, Dood, I did say ‘Disproportionate Response’… Something that was emphasized, time after time by the UN Inquiry… Led by a Jew, even…!!!
Gigantic piece coming your way, complete with roasted pumpkin seeds flavored with cinammon & salt scattered on top.
I got that non-purity test going on. Weird, I know.
I like both of them, and will tease each of them at will, but rarely. :)
plate
pretty funny coming from somebody who likes to get information from PRESS TV.
the kind of one-sided crap you’re going to get from smg might be what you deserve
Surely you jest. Just trappin U.S. in W pledge with the devil. I have a pic in my attic that resembles this twisted scene.
Dittoing my 58 for You Loo Hoo.
I wonder how much they pay these people to surf the blogs to try to disrupt any discussion of the US/Israeli-Palestinian situation. Even though they know you post on Sunday nights this one was right here right now.
Probably an auto-reply.
1402!
I imagine the flan is awesome. I’ve never tasted a fruitcake I liked until I tasted yours. Count me impressed enough to attempt making it myself.
That’s why we need to call ‘em on their BS… Here and now…! Sorry, twain…! ;-)
Did somebody say pumpkin flan?
I wonder which state in the US will get Israeli nuclear waste? Will they just create some new dirty ammo and dump/fire it on Gaza for kicks?
Yeah, and now we have 2.
I think you are actually 1405.
No, I’m serious. While O’s been disappointing on any number of issues, his working to eliminate nuclear weapons is totally admirable.
We ain’t gonna stop ‘em here. They’re paid shills. No real thinking required. Just keep pimpin’ the talkin’ points. Not really worth replying to unless ya just wanna piss ‘em off for shits and giggles.
Nope, 1406.
Glad you liked it!
Gigantic piece comming your way.
We’ll see.
That said our continuing research into more compact, more destructive nukes doesn’t say much for the effort.
1406! Can’t you count, hen?
I’m surprised they were allowed to take in school supplies for the children. They are, after all, Palestinian children. This is all so cruel.
It was great. Thank you bunches!
I think O is saying he’s working to eliminating nukes, while actually doing nothing at all. Jest like all his other speeches vs. actions.
I do rather enjoy getting my ‘shits and giggles’ somewhere, Damnit…! ;-)
The theocracy is run by Hamas, which is a fundamentalist Islamic organization. Go read their constitution, which is easy to find on-line. In Israel, there are Arabs in the Knesset and in the courts, even the supreme court. And it’s one person, one vote. In how many Muslim countries are Jews or Christians in the government or even allowed to vote?
As for the accusation of war crimes, even Goldstone admitted his report would not constitute evidence in a court of law. All wars are horrible, but as Obama said when accepting the Nobel Prize, sometimes they are necessary. And Israel is going to have no choice but to defeat Hamas, once and for all. And Fatah/Abbas will not shed any tears about it.
Thank-ya verra much! (holding out plate)
I think of them sounding like the adults in the Charlie Brown cartoons.
Like the public option, if it becomes too inconvenient he’ll deny he ever said it.
Thank you – delicious…gonna have to get you up on Food Sunday.
I heard somebody describe it as making grand symbolic gestures while doing little or nothing.
Hard to imagine the purpose of school supplies with all the schools bombed out.
Likewise, medical supplies seem superfluous when there are no hospitals or medical care anymore.
Are you fucking serious…? He stated that it would be extremely difficult to bring a case in a court of law because of Israeli stonewalling…! Get a clue…!
oh, and plate, please.
Big piece headed your way.
great comparison. made me laugh because I had forgotten how they sound.
All talk, no walk.
CT, you’ll break something inside of yourself responding to it.
I find it amusing that someone with the same user name also accuses Joe Klein of anti-semitism: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/12/17/making-things-up/
The google is our friend.
MM-MMM!
By the way, why does anyone believe there ever was a nation of Palestine? There was never a Palestinian state, king, queen, parliament, currency or distinct language. The concept of a Palestinian people was an invention of the reactionary Arab states in 1964, when the P.L.O. was created. The so-called Palestinians are just Arabs who live in Judea, Samaria and Gaza, as opposed to inside the armistice lines of 1949 or in other parts of the Arab world. There’s no distinct Palestinian nation, as the Arabs themselves explicitly proclaimed when they rejected the U.N. Partition Plan of 1947.
Wow. Getting a wonderful distruibution of truly wonderful dessert. Commin your way.
Nothin’ wrong with teaching in the fresh air. As long as it’s free of clusterbombs. Children seem to be favourite targets of snipers and such.
Joe Klein is a self-hating Jew, and an ignorant one at that. So is Phil Weiss.
There was a time when the term “anti-Semitic” referred to people who didn’t like Jews. Now it’s used to refer to people the Jews don’t like.
Wow — Siun’s not kidding when she pegged you as a hasbara purveyor!
Hey, if Israel’s this Nice Tolerant Bulwark against the Intolerant Muslim Hordes, please explain this:
Or this:
Or this, from the US Department of State:
But, hey, this isn’t that big a deal — the Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox are a majority in the country and so they should be allowed to push it away from its secular origins, right?
Guess what — they make up less than 20% of the population:
According to figures from the Central Bureau of Statistics for 2007, the latest year such information was available, 7 percent of the Jewish population is ultra-Orthodox, 10 percent is Orthodox, 39 percent describe themselves as “traditional religious” or “traditional non-religious,” and 44 percent describe themselves as “non-religious/secular” Jews, most of whom observe some Jewish traditions. It also estimates that 30 percent of the country’s Jewish population was born outside the country. A growing but still small number of traditional and secular Jews associate themselves with the Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist streams of Judaism. Although not officially recognized for purposes of civil and personal status matters, groups composed of adherents of these streams of Judaism received a small amount of government funding and were recognized by the courts. There is a small but growing community of approximately 10,000 Messianic Jews.
So we are starting to see the situation that obtained in Saddam’s Iraq and in pre-1994 South Africa. Indeed, Gaza itself was set up along the lines of the South African puppet territories called “Bantustans“. Not a pretty sight.
Like this one? (my bold)
Anyway they were both mistaken, the correct spelling is “Gene Shalit.”
Perhaps he will locate some brush that needs clearing.
Not Chicago Manual of Style, that’s for sure.
Gee peeps who live on the land have no rights. Where have I heard that before? Gee, could it be indigenous Americans?
Exactly. It’s the one promise he’s really been able to keep, probably because it doesn’t piss off any major corporate donors (or pleases more than it pisses off).
He appears to have the “now watch me hit this drive” bit down.
Damnit, PW…! I was doing some of the heavy lifting ya know…! ;-)
Indeed:
just for you.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1138809.html
perhaps everybody who disagrees with your one-sided ignorance is a self-hater.
I’ll have a diet cola, please… in a clean glass.
That’s probably the best comparison. Israel is doing to the Palestinians what we did to the Native Americans: kill them and steal their land. We’re brothers in genocide.
A word to the wise: The more you misuse the term “self-hating Jew” to apply to anyone you don’t like or who is besting you in an argument, the more you cheapen it — and the weaker that term becomes as a weapon in your rhetoric toolbox.
Guys and gals like you, who whip out the “self-hating Jew” bomb so excessively, are like doctors who prescribe antibiotics at the sign of a sniffle: Overuse leads to inefficacy.
And a fine job you were doing, too.
Back in my days as a truck stop waitress, I tried that on a customer – Are you the one who wanted the clean glass? They hadnt heard the joke….
Not true. The U.S. was much more rapacious than the Israelis.
Whip ‘em. Whip ‘em good.
Interesting – our new friend who hates Joe Klein also has quite a suggestion for the Israeli settlers over at Haaretz:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/ResponseDetails.jhtml?resNo=5556085&itemno=1136216&cont=2
The imminent release of 1000 terrorists for Shalit provides an easy response for the settlers. They can seize one soldier and demand a complete halt to the freeze in exchange for that soldier`s release. Netanyahu and Barak should have no problem complying. It`s a substantially smaller price than the one the Israeli government is planning to pay for Shalit.
Makes me laugh.
Goes without saying, macaquerman. Ha’aretz is very much hated by people like smgxxx, as Ha’aretz’ staffers are not totally down with the Likud/Kadima party line.
First, it is Gilad Shalit. There is no Gene Shalit. Even Joe Klein figured it out and fixed his error.
Second, The Arabs in Israel have more civil and religious rights than Jews or Christians in Muslim countries. Try going to Saudi Arabia and wearing a crucifix or bringing in the Bible.
Third, there are more than 20 Arab and Muslim countries in the Middle East region. One Jewish state should be tolerable. But the creation of Israel was bitterly opposed by the Grand Mufti and other barbaric, Muslim-fanatic Arab states that worked with the Nazis, as well as by the colonialists in Britain. It’s the same coalition of reactionary forces that opposes Zionism today— Muslim extremists, the European colonialist nations and their water carriers here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_Shalit
Starhawk is amazing.
Clearly there is only one way to look at this conflict, which is that Isreal is all good and Palestinians are all bad. What else do u need to no?
No Gene Shalit? Does his mustache know?
You make me laugh.
Why don’t you just go home?
Saudi FM: Israel is acting like a spoiled child
By The Associated Press
The Saudi foreign minister on Saturday criticized Israel’s settlement construction and said the country acts like a spoiled child because the international community is not tough enough in pressuring it to make concessions.
Prince Saud al-Faisal told a press conference in Riyadh that Washington and other players in Mideast peace efforts should take a firm and serious stand to put an end to Israeli construction on land Palestinians want for a future state.
“Israel’s announcement Monday that it plans to build building nearly 700 new apartments for Jews in East Jerusalem is a source of worry, which we strongly condemn,” he said.
The Saudi foreign minister said the international community needed to get tougher with Israel.
“The reason why a solution cannot be reached is the preferential treatment that Israel gets,” he said. “When other countries violate international law, they get punished, except for Israel. If war crimes are committed, other countries get punished, except Israel.”
“Israel has become in the international community like a spoiled child,” he said. “It does what it wants without being questioned or punished.”
Showing that the guy isn’t so much pro-Israel or pro-Jew as he is pro-ultra-Orthodox-Jew, which as already noted is a tiny minority even in Israel. (And he’s a fan of the even tinier part of that ultra-Orthodox minority that choose to illegally settle where they shouldn’t, expecting to be bailed out by the very IDF that they, unlike other Israelis, aren’t compelled to join.)
I guess you’re right, PW, as usual. This person is another one who can’t entertain the thought that one side or the other needn’t be above criticism.
You’re using the term friend like the US Senate does. Don’t forget “on the other side of the aisle”!
I wonder who reviewed all those movies :)
I do agree that the ‘Siege of Gaza’ was (is) the monumental ‘fail’ of the Israelis this decade…! So how do they rectify it…? Continue it…!
למה אתה שונא את אמריקה?
Reuters Saudi FM says Israel is acting like a ‘spoiled child’ – 1 day ago
The Saudi foreign minister on Saturday criticized Israel’s settlement construction and said the country acts like a “spoiled child” because the …Jerusalem Post – 241 related articles »
Likud and Kadima are both parties of appeasement. The only party in Israel that stands for Jewish rights is the National Union.
I’m not surprised that nobody can controvert the absence of a Palestinian people throughout history. But who cares? Facts and history don’t matter to racists, no matter what era they are in.
Because America is self-hating! Squak!
You’re beyond good – you’re WAY good!
In case you missed it, I threw out a little bait @ 105. It was an insignificant morsel, I really didn’t expect the mouse to take it.
Gene Shalit was a movie critic. Gilad Shalit is the Israeli soldier kidnapped by Hamas. But don’t feel bad, you are well above average in knowledge among the people who support Hamas and bash Israel.
Touche!
Both Hamas and the Israelis have dug their asses so deep so they can’t see anything but down.
These people, the Israelis, the Palestinians,the Arabs, are all Semites, children of Abraham. When will the echoes die? The Palestinians have been living in those “refugee camps” my whole fucking life. This shit, and our American wars, all make me think that you become your enemy. Maybe that’s the idea behind the Navajo’s Enemy Way sing: to cleanse a warrior after battle, so they are not infected.
LOL (h/t to Google translator)
*heh* Wait’ll the Israelis bomb Isfahan or Qom… They’ll get noticed then by the International Community…! ;-)
♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫♪♫
He doesn’t feel bad because he was joking. You remember humor, don’t you? Gene Shalit would think it was funny.
shits and giggles
Still waiting for my soda (and my clean glass). :-)
I love the citation to Saudi Arabia, a true bastion of civil liberties. It says it all about the principles of this group. Almost as good as confusing Gene Shalit, the movie critic, with Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier held hostage by Hams. This is amusing.
Language family. We tossed words around at the dinner table instead of having food fights. Hm…maybe we were missing out.
That’s the smartest thing I’ve seen you write.
Just stop hyper-ventilating for a few minutes. You’ve reached the point where you’re no longer even arguing rationally.
Jewish racism isn’t anything that combats racism and Jewish rights no longer exist when they’re neither Jewish nor right.
I didn’t hear a thank-you to egregious.
If the US ceased funding Israel and unilaterally supporting them over the Palestinians, then the anger against the US which supports asymmetrical attacks on us would diminish as would attacks.
Af-Pak, Iraq, Iran and now Yemen would be irrelevant if the US were not funding Israel and imposing dictators friendly to US policy on the Arab and Islamic world.
Here Ratfood:
Clean gl
Facts and history apparently don’t matter to MANY-including the followers of CUFI ,among other Christian groups aligned with the behavior of Israel.
HOW do they explain the persecution of the Palestinians when Jesus Christ himself was a Palestinian?
Jesus the Palestinian. Category: Reader Commentaries from The …Dec 17, 2009 … I thought it might be helpful to recall that Yehoshu’a (Jesus) was a Palestinian. The district of western Asia long known as Palestine has a …
http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/…/34304?…Jesus-the-Palestinian – Cached
You need to upgrade your Hebrew language skills if you’re going to call others racist.
Let us begin with the greeting, common to both SEMITIC languages (yes, wild I KNOW, but both Hebrew and Arabic belong to the Semitic branch of the language tree.)
So how one greets another in Arabic is “Salaam” سلام
How one greets another in Hebrew is “Shalom” שלום
Get it?
I like potatoes but I LOVE verbs! Heh.
thanks to the rest of you “racists”…harumph!
That’s because the Saudi Foreign Minister is a self-hating Jew. Also.
You appear to have been the only one who was confused, my friend.
I do sincerely hope Gilad Shalit returns to his family safely and soon.
Sorry.
late nite upstairs
Holidays is over. Back to the grind manana.
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.
Namaste
Is that you, Bele?
Jesus was a Jew. The name “Palestine” came from the Roman Emperor Hadrian after the Jews were dispersed from the land of Judea. “Palestine” was derived from “Philistines,” the enemies of the Jews, in an effort to symbolize the dispossession of the land from the Jews. It was a geographic area, not a nation, not a state.
If there hasn’t been a Palestinian state until now, there will never be one. There have been too many opportunities blown by the Arabs (Peel Commission 1937, U.N. Partition Plan 1947, Camp David 2000, for example). It’s too late. There will be peace only when the Muslims accept that an infidel Jewish state on what they consider to be holy Muslim land is never going away.
Oy! Kann’ wir nir’ habt’n yelke “lesson?”
G’nite, SD.
Thanks!
When the Romans came to dominate the area, they used the name Palestine. Thus, when Yehoshu’a was born, he was born a Palestinian as were all of the inhabitants of the region, Jews and non-Jews. He was also a Nazarene (being born in Nazareth) and a Galilean (born in the region of Galilee).
At the time of Yehoshu’a’s birth, Palestine was inhabited by Jews—descendants of Hebrews, Canaanites, and many other Semitic peoples—and also by Phoenicians, Syrians, Greeks, and even Arabs. There were many Greek settlements, some dating from Alexander’s empire but most from the Seleucid period. The Arameans were dominant linguistically since their Aramaic language (closely related to Hebrew) had replaced Hebrew as a spoken tongue (except in Jewish ritual). Earlier, Aramaic had become the official tongue of the Assyrian Empire but, in addition, numbers of Arameans had migrated into Palestine over the centuries.
The Gaza march was led by, among others, Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn. That’s quite a pair. Not a lot of support for either the Great Satan or Little Satan among the crowd.
Check out http://www.dpwatchdog.com. It explains the kind of rag the Berkeley Daily Planet is. The only thing missing is a series of comics by Jules Streicher.
Megaphone gives real time alerts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool
great story. Thank you.
A suggestion if you can’t manage to speak truth.
לסגור את F למעלה
Jesus the Nazarene..there wasn’t any Nazareth at that time even though myth has become fact in religious dogma.
Sorry to disturb your propaganda with the facts. You can always go to Al Jazeera for comfort. But it’s time to give up on the fantasy of a Palestinian state. There will be a Jewish state, and it’s not going away. That’s the heart of the conflict, and until the Muslims get over their desire to rid the Middle East of the infidels, there isn’t going to be peace.
It would be helpful if you can find a way to make your point without insisting the other person ‘STFU’ – thanks.
Big fan of Star Hawk. Fifth Most Sacred Thing is one of my all time favorite books. At the time I read it. It was her only fiction. Setting was the US after the republicans took control of the govt and there had been massive bombings everywhere.
Guess we had pissed some people off. Hearing about all the pundits today calling for torture to the guy who set his pants on fire…it is probable.Go start a war after he is tortured.
As a crackpot on the left – albeit not with a “Israel and US are always wrong” – Chomsky – point of view – indeed not with the atheist view that the not spiritually blind (Sirituall blind being equivalent to concept/reality of “colorblinded”) who support Israel are non-liberal fundi types that fake progressive support – I suggest that the posters on left wing boards are not monolithic in their views – on anything. There are progressives/liberals here that support Israel – when they feel she is in the right. Cast Lead was successful in decreasing the approx 8000 rockets that had been fired into Israel over the years by 90%. To do a Cast Lead 2 over a few rockets fired at the end of the year would be both wrong and pointless as it would not be achieving much of anything in terms of terrorist attack reduction. Famas’ kill every Jew Constitution – drive them into the sea rejection of a 2 state solution – does not make the rocket attacks justify more than the actual fly over attack with no one seriously harmed response that the year end rockets got. The actual terrorists involved in later terrorist (rocket set up?) work were killed – I think arresting made more moral and strategic sense, but it is hard to put one in the place of those on either side of the conflict. What do you think of the OP’s delivery of supplies to Gaza? I find the slow down in humanitarian delivery inspections on the Israeli side – as a response to Famas breaking prior agreements – a poor strategic decision. Granted that the current drop off of 250 tons in Egypt is for show, there are involved good people with good intentions that focus not on the state of the Famas/Israeli relationship – but instead on the needs of the folks in Gaza. I suggest we ignore the uninformed (in my opinion) anti-Israel posts here and post based on our progressive/liberal principals applied to this type of humanitarian human rights topic. Perhaps in time Taba/Geneva 2 state principles can get across the finish line as Arafat – after he rejected them – said he wanted to happen.
Wish I could have been there with them. God bless them all.
One of my favorite books as well Milly – along with Walking to Mercury.
Much to learn in those books …
It’s insane to expect Israel to supply the Palestinians, who would gleefully murder all Israelis if they could. The jubilant reactions to every suicide bombing prove that point. The U.S. and England did not supply the German people during World War II.
Hamas won an election fair and square and represents the will of the Palestinian people. What happened to the German and japanese people during World War 2 was tragic, but they brought it on themselves. Same with the Palestinians. All they need to do is accept the right of Israel to exist and there would be peace. Look what happened when Sadat came to Jerusalem seeking peace in 1977. Shortly thereafter there was a peace agreement and all of the Sinai was returned to Egypt.
By the way, why isn’t Egypt the target of vitriol for now supplying their brethren? Indeed, the Egyptians are building a wall at the Gaza border.
It seems to come down to whether you believe the U.S., Israel and the West are, albeit imperfect, a force for good in the world. If so, you will see Bernadine Dorhn, Bill Ayers, Cindy Sheehan and their ilk as misguided and immoral. If you think the U.S., Israel and the West are evil, you will pray for Islamic jihad and bless its supporters.
A buddy of mine from Delaware Valley Veterans of America was in the group that tried to gain access to Gaza. He was permitted to go in, but stayed out in solidarity with other refuseniks. He put up several photo albums on Facebook. Y’all should be able to access the albums as they’re all designated as accessible to non-Facebook members. I’m currently working on moving a small portion of the pictures out to an even-more accessible blog.
Egyptian Clerics support Egyptian efforts to construct anti-smuggling wall on Gaza border:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100101/wl_mideast_afp/mideastconflictgazaegyptsmugglingislam
They hold opposition to the wall to be un-Islamic.
One in four American children are on food stamps and Phil of it Weiss is moaning about murderers who rocket civilians because they are Jews. Maybe, a march on behalf of our people on the White House is in order, and fewer kisses for now and future suicide bombers. I always wondered why some Jews make the best antisemites. Could they have been encouraged too much to learn their maftir in between wetting their beds?
— Albert Einstein – April 17th, 1938.
Part of the context of Einstein’s remarks was this:
Oh, yeah – 1407….
Good work, Siun.
Jewish Genetics – DNA, genes, Jews, AshkenaziThis section is the most comprehensive summary of Jewish genetic data. In recent years, advances in genetic technology and the broadening in scope of …
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts.html – Cached – Similar
Jewish Genetics, Part 2: Cohens and Levites (kohen, cohen, levite DNA)In a similar way, there is no Jewish haplotype and genetics cannot ‘prove’ whether someone is a Jew; that is a matter for religious authorities. …
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts-cohen-levite.html – Cached – Similar
Show more results from http://www.khazaria.com
“If you want to make peace, you don’t talk to your friends, you talk to your enemies.” — Moshe Dayan
Wrong setting to assume that the only humanness that counts is that of Jewish Israelis. You’re not allowed to erase Palestinian humanity and history, although that is the essence of Zionism.
There is no Palestinian history, only Arab and Muslim history. If you disagree, let me know when the Palestinians ever had a state. Nobody is denying their “humanity,” just as nobody denied the humanity of the Germans who zealously supported HItler. But when there is a war, a government is obligated to do what’s necessary to win it.
The “essence” of Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jews. Very telling how many on this post love a national liberation movement for everyone but the Jews.
As for making peace with one’s enemies, that’s possible only if the enemy is willing. If not, it’s necessary to defeat the enemy first.
An unusal proportion of Siun’s columns are directed at Israel-bashing. She is fixated on the Jews. Looking forward to the next poisonous blog. It’s important for mainstream Americans, including most Democrats, Republicans, liberals and conservatives, to see that there really are people who hold such opinions, that Jew-hatred coupled with anti-Americanism still exists.
Yes, all Palestinians think exactly the same, and it is wrong for anyone to fight back against war crimes and crimes against humanity.
We need to split this into three different categories:
1. Jews, the mythical “people” who are culturally or ethnically identified.
2. Jewish people, those who practice the religion of Judiasm.
3. Zionists, a political movement that would establish a state for Jews.
Please do not assume that those in category (1) are in category (2) or (3).
There are more Christian Zionists than Zionist Jews. Opposing Zionism is not the same thing as opposing Jews or Jewish people. The mere assertion exposes the fragility of the ZIonist case.
As am American Jew, I am horrified that American Zionist Jews and their right wing Christian allies have all but replicated the holocaust on their own terms.
As Martin Luther King said, when people criticize Zionism they are criticizing Jews. Israel is simply the collective Jew, the Jew among nations. Pretending that it’s not hatred of Jews is transparently false. Trying to compare Israel’s legitimate actions in self-defense to the Holocaust is morally perverse and emphasizes the point. Might as well compare the U.S. and English actions in W.W.II to the Nazis. It’s just as hollow.
The Palestinians voted for Hamas, whose charter calls for the murder of all Jews worldwide, not just the destruction of Israel. Suicide bombers are considered heroes. The society is a death cult. They hate us here in the U.S. as well, as was demonstrated unforgettably when they celebrated so publicly on 9/11.
I have many Palestinian friends. Most are highly educated, and can trace their family histories back several generations. Most are also Christians, from a variety of the sects that have resided in the Levant since Biblical times.
Why do you insist there are no Palestinian Christians, when such an exclamation is a lie?
Are 100% of Jews who oppose the concept of militant Zionism – the brand you so wholeheartedly endorse here – self-hating? 99.9%…? 99.8%….?
Should 100% of Jews who disagree with you be put on this list?
So if MLK says it, that makes it so forever? Israel, using US funding, has expanded its portfolio of war crimes and crimes against humanity since MLK was killed, involving each and every one of us as parties to such criminal conduct.
Israel is a nation state with nuclear weapons which has extirpated existing populations with no conscience, further exacerbating antisemitism and, by extension, exacerbating hatred against those of us who are forced to fund such an apartheid regime.
The easy solution is to if not abolish all theocracies, end US support of them. Let me remind you that teenagers sitting in ships off of the coast of Asia who run computers to send cruise missiles and predator drones at civilian targets are considered our own heroes.
We are complicit in Israel’s war crimes and crimes against humanity because we pay for them. Diaspora has been the Jews’ survival strategy, concentration on the land of others only antagonizes, stirs up more antisemitism, and offers a clean target.
How do I get my name on that list?
I have about a dozen friends on it. They mostly got on it for telling the truth as they see and believe it.
Look down it, you’ll probably find a similar number of friends, perhaps relatives. Ask them how they got on it.
@200
re: Acquiescent accomplices
U.S. Military Aid to Israel Averages $3 Billion a Year for Last 25 …Jan 3, 2010 … And here’s a wonderful little factoid to chew on; since the passage of the Symington Amendment in June, 1976, all US aid given to Israel is …
whatreallyhappened.com/…/us-military-aid-israel-averages-3-billion-year-last-25-years
Fantastically honest and revealing response. You have now accused American soldiers of war crimes in the war against Islamic jihad. Yes, Israel and the U.S. are two peas in a pod. Where you stand on one nation is a very good weathervane for where you stand on the other.
The Muslim countries are all theocracies. There is no freedom of religion for Jews, Christians and non-believers, unlike in Israel and the U.S. If you don’t see a difference between a secular democracy that must, on occasion, deal with the undue political influence of a religious group, on the one hand, and a theocracy that brutalizes women, homosexuals and those they consider to be infidels, on the other hand, you are being willfully blind.
As for your so-called Palestinian friends, of course they have ancestors, as spontaneous generation would be a miracle. But none of those ancestors was ever a citizen of a Palestinian state. They lived under Jordanian rule, British rule, Turkish rule, etc. But they were just part of the larger Arab world, not a distinct Palestinian nation. Has there ever been a Palestinian king, queen, parliament, currency or distinct language?
By the way, were your Palestinian friends’ ancestors complaining about occupation when Jordan controlled the West Bank from 1948-67? If not, why not? Why was there no clamoring for a Palestinian state when Jordan controlled the West Bank and when Egypt controlled Gaza? It would have been easy to create a Palestinian state at that time. But there was no demand because nobody even thought of the concept. It is merely a weapon to use against the infidel Jewish state.
You keep repeating yourself, yet fail to answer important questions I posed to you. Why?
As for the question of anti-Zionist Jews, there are some fringe groups like Naturai Karta or crackpot individuals like Norman Finkelstein. These are descendants of the kapos who collaborated with the Nazis in World War 2. There are always traitors who are uncomfortable being a despised and persecuted minority and instead choose to identify with the enemy. These kinds of Jews, and indeed of other persecuted minorities, have existed forever.
I think I just answered your question, but to be clear, disagreement with the policies of Israel is not necessarily a sign of hatred of Jews, including self-hatred by Jews. But holding Israel to a standard applied to no other nation clearly is a sign of anti-Semitism, as is opposing the right of Israel to exist at all. Now answer my questions.
A slim plurality of American Jews supports the right wing Zionist agenda. The majority of us do not. But in the US, where money rules politics, those conservatives who can finance structures to further their goals are the ones who prevail in the policy debate irrespective of popular opinion.
US Israel policy is AIPAC’s individual mandate, where average Americans, especially progressive American Jews, get saddled with the burden of making life for the elites more comfortable.
Yet all American Jews are tarred with the stench of decaying Palestinian toddlers’ bodies.
You all might want to be “Good Zionists,” but Israel will be held accountable for its war crimes and Americans, under the Nuremberg Principles are compelled to take steps to stop war crimes and crimes against humanity from transpiring under our watch, with our resources.
If rioting and rebellion was good enough for the Jews of Warsaw, then it is good enough for the Palestinians of Gaza.
Sorry, it doesn’t appear you’ve asked me any questions. And you’ve neglected to address your lie about Palestinian Christians.
What about Palestinian Christians? I thought my post in 204 answered you and posed questions of my own. There may be Arab Christians living in Israel, but what makes them Palestinians? Have any of there ancestors ever been a citizen of Palestinian state? And why wasn’t the land deemed occupied when controlled by Jordan and Egypt, and why no demand for a Palestinian state?
Comparing the Gazans to the Jews in Warsaw is, of course, comparing the Israelis to the Nazis. It’s a sick comparison and anyone who makes it is anti-Semitic, whether he or she is Jewish or not.
You are buying into racist propaganda when you rant about the influence of the Jewish lobby. If anything, AIPAC tilts to the left. Most of its leaders were supporters of Obama. Of course, if you consider Obama a sell-out, then yes you would consider AIPAC to be right-wing.
The vast majority of Americans in both major political parties support Israel because it shares our values. The few Americans who are anti-Israel generally also accuse the U.S. of war crimes as well. The U.S. is complicit in Israel’s conduct because we are on the same side. Of course the U.S. is going to support Israel, and of course you and yours will not.
Some did. Some emigrated to the USA or elsewhere soon after the Nakba. Some left because they didn’t like Jordanian or Egyptian administration. Some emigrated from Israel, where they had been denied the professional status they had enjoyed under the Mandate or earlier. Some left because their land had been stolen without compensation by Israeli commissions or settlers. Some because friends and relatives had been killed in the Nabka or before.
Of my Palestinian friends still in the Occupied Territories or Gaza, all just want the fucking shit to stop.
I found this remark you made here yesterday evening particularly troubling:
Off to work. Have a good day, everyone. Peace.
If your friends’ ancestors were complaining about Jordanian occupation of the West Bank, or Egyptian occupation of Gaza, they did it in the privacy of their own homes. There were no public demands for a Palestinian state at that time.
The concept of a Nakba is a malicious and feeble lie. Might as well run around screaming that the earth is flat.
But you help demonstrate why Israel can’t afford to compromise any further with the Islamic fascists who want to destoy it. The entire civilized West, led by the U.S. and Israel, is in a war with hate-filled, primitive religious fanatics. No choice but to win it decisively.
Uh, comparing resistance does not necessarily compare aggressors, although you seem to make that case. Why do you hate Jews so much that you would compare Israel to Hitler? Why are you violating Godwin’s law? Don’t you have any respect for the Torah?
The point is that AIPAC has Congress under its thumb to the extent that US foreign policy is subordinated in the minds of many to Israeli foreign policy. There is no left or right to AIPAC’s agenda, it is ecumenical and catholic, embracing all who embrace Israel without question.
Americans support Israel, but American Jews do not support an apartheid Israel as a war criminal nation in great numbers.
The US does commit war crimes. Predator drones killing civilians in Af-Pak are war crimes. Israel’s own judiciary recently accused Israel of committing war crimes this time last year in Palestine.
You diminish your own standing while augmenting your own culpability by adopting such contradictory positions.
The cost of the US supporting Israel is measured in coming up on tens of thousands of dead Americans and trillions of dollars in military expenditures.
Sorry, that should have been G-dwin’s law.
And how can you say that we are antisemitic? Some of my best family are Jews, I don’t think that Jews are evil, that Jews should all be destroyed.
I do believe that the Zionists who run Israel are doing more harm to Jews worldwide than benefit in creating this garrison state bathed in the blood of the Palestinians.
And I believe that Americans are particularly complicit given that we are the main source of military aid to an illegally nuclear Israel which clearly perpetrates war crimes and crimes against humanity at the drop of a hat, if it makes someone a quick buck.
you’re being wronged. no one should mistake being simple with being anti-semitic.
Sometimes people are both simple-minded and anti-Jewish. Bumper sticker slogans–”war crimes,” “crimes against humanity,” “bathed in the blood of the Palestinians,” “garrison state,” “apartheid Israel,”"illegally nuclear Israel”–are usually an indication.
there’s not a damn thing anti-Jewish about objecting to some of Israel’s policies smgxxx.
Some of the things that Israel is now doing harm everybody in the area and some of the people in Israel’s government are people that Israel used to scorn.
Try explaining the difference between Lieberman and Kahane.
Kahane was more principled and had better foresight than Lieberman. In hindsight he turned out to be right about everything. Lieberman has moments of lucidity but is willing to trade portions of Israeli land to the Arabs and favors the creation of a Palestinian state under certain circumstances. He stayed in the Olmert government, despite its policies of appeasement, and voted in favor of the 10 month settlement freeeze.
Again, nothing inherently anti-Jewish in criticizing the policies of Israel’s government (hell, I do it all the time). But holding it to a standard not applied to other countries is a sign of prejudice, as is opposing the right of the Jews to a state while supporting other natioanal liberation movements.
Kahane was a pig in both thought and it matters of personal conduct.
If you knew him, you would know the truth of what he was.