It’s no secret that Barack Obama frustrates the hell out of me. At a time when we need bold transformational leadership, he gives us cautious incrementalism. Where we need moral courage, he gives us compromise and expedience.
Ironically, the character trait that makes him so infuriating is the same one that makes him the opposite of George W. Bush. Where Bush made political decisions based on his distorted sense of Right vs. Wrong and Good vs. Evil, Obama makes them based on Easy vs. Hard. Dubya’s moral compass pointed due South, while Obama’s points to the path of least resistance.
As John Odum puts it:
[M]ore progressives have come to realize (based not only on the health care struggle, but virtually every other political hot potato from the Afghan War and civil liberties to Presidential appointments): that this administration will seriously consider no policy to the left of the Senate’s most conservative Democrats.
Or, alternatively, as I put it back in August:
Need to slash greenhouse emissions to prevent the ice caps from melting? You have to do it without hurting the energy companies.
Need to rescue the economy and reform the financial system? You have to do it without hurting Wall Street.
Need to make healthcare affordable and available to everyone? You have to do it without hurting the insurance companies.
It’s not that Obama doesn’t want to do good, but if doing the right thing involves taking on corporations or the religious right (in the always-helpful guise of their Rahmocrat proxies), he’ll happily settle for doing good enough, and sometimes not even that.
Assuming I haven’t misoverestimated Obama and he’s not a misogynistic corporatist homophobe at heart, he’s probably rationalized his conflict avoidance as a Very Pragmatic Strategy to woo corporate money and fundie manpower so that he and the Democrats can keep winning elections and continue to do… good enough. And who knows, maybe a few hundred years of good enough would eventually add up to something meaningful.
But we don’t have a few hundred years. People are getting sick and dying now, our financial system is out of control now, the climate is heating up now, women and gays are seeing their rights rolled back now. And that’s without mentioning how absurd it is to expect that any agenda that corporations and fundies have veto power over would stay even good enough for very long.
Sadly, it’s not just Obama who consistently takes the easy road; large chunks of the Democratic and progressive worlds have adopted the same approach. Harry Reid doesn’t want to take on Obama or the Lieberman Caucus by pushing the public option through reconciliation. The progressive orgs in the Veal Pen don’t want to oppose Obama because he might choke off their donations. The unions don’t want to oppose him because they’re afraid he won’t back EFCA (although why they think he’ll lift a finger for EFCA based on his track record so far is beyond me).
So not only do we have a president who always follows the path of least resistance, but we have a Democratic/progressive establishment that’s willing to cave in where Republicans and Rahmocrats are not, thus ensuring that the path of least resistance will always bend to the right.
And that, in a nutshell, is why Jane and FDL continue to fight, kicking and screaming, even enlisting unlikely allies like Grover Norquist: We are trying to move the path of least resistance back to the left, by making corporatist corruption and religious intolerance politically painful, by pressuring progressive politicians to use their power – because it’s the only way to make Obama and the Democrats do the right thing instead of the good enough thing.



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“You’re plookin’ too hard
Plookin’ too hard
Plookin’ too hard on meeeeeeee…”
- Sy Borg
Nice post. Dead-on, I think.
And that’s why things will continue to go to hell in a handbasket: all the things that need fixing have hard solutions, and taking the easier way means not fixing the problems.
This is exactly how Obama operates. I can’t help but think of his leadership style as the “hindmost” (see Larry Niven’s Puppeteers). He leads from behind everyone else, letting them take the risks.
If there’s any genuine “incrementalism”, I haven’t seen it. His roles in the Senate on FISA and TARP and Lieberman are the measure of the man, confirmed and extended by his own extension of the Bushco wars and the lies he told in the campaign on health care. His appointments to the Legal Services Corporation Board are despicable and say what he’s about:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/washington/story/81144.html
No one would have noticed a moderate or even a left appointment here. Only legal aid lawyers watching, anyway. This is what he thinks, and what he thinks is foul.
Hey Eli!
Hope you had a Merry Christmas!
Obama’s administration is somewhat an improvement of what came before it but when you compare yourself to the Bush administration you are really setting the bar pretty low. “Good enough” just won’t cut it in the long run for society.
Wasn’t it W who put the “hard” in work?
OTOH, I am not sure Obama knows hard work either.
Assuming facts not in evidence. I think there is plenty of evidence to the contary, that O is sprecifically out to do bad wrt the voters. FISA was the first tell, but not the only one.
I think in a lot of cases the solutions aren’t inherently hard, but the wrong people are calling the shots.
It’s like trying to stop a bank robbery with a SWAT team led by the ringleader’s brother.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
The intentions are also suspect.
I can live with this rationale and support efforts to bend Obama leftwards. I believe that the Obama presidency is malleable – hence capable of being bent leftwards. That makes him flawed – but preferable to the hard right which is ideologically incapable of yielding to Progressive ideals.
That drives me nuts. For some nutty reason the union bosses, and that’s what they are, bosses, think Obama’s gonna part the Red Sea and get EFCA passed, with the card-check provision intact, no less.
Excellent post, Eli. Thanks.
If the Blue Dogs and Lieberdems (and maybe some moderate Republicans) laid down their arms and said, “You know, I think this robust climate/financial reform/healthcare/FISA reform bill is what’s best for America, even if our corporate donors don’t like it”, I think Obama would have been perfectly fine with that.
But if they put up any resistance at all (or if he expects them to), he will tack right to accommodate them.
Eli: I think that “cautious incrementalism” is awfully generous of you. “Incrementalism” would imply an agenda that included some degree of progressive reform, some day. As it stands, Obama relies greatly on a small circle of figures around him to do a lot of his work. And not a single one of these people comes from the left, or liberal, or progressive world. There is not a single figure near him who is advising him from the left. Conversely, his circle is filled with a Republicans or near-Republicans like Clinton or Emanuel.
We’re not looking at “cautious incrementalism”. We’re looking at “corporatism, militance, and the status quo pitched to liberals by someone they voted for.”
(Hey Matt!)
He does have a pack of crappy legislators, and an intractable opposition. I am not sure how much he can do with them.
Oh I hate the edit function that strips out your carriage returns and won’t accept paragraph tags!
“It’s not that Obama doesn’t want to do good”
Wrong. Obama was never about doing right; he was always just about getting elected to higher office. Battling the status quo was never in his game plan; he wanted to be part of it. He’s achieved his goal, being president, and now he just coasts, delegates the heavy lifting to the lobbyists and congressmen on the payroll of the PTB, and if he’s plays his cards right he may even get a seconfd term. Sounds like a great deal. Either way he’ll go down in history and makes lots of money.
Somewhat OT, but I highly recommend Matt Tiabbi’s takedown of David Brooks’ support of Obama:
http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/12/23/onward-christian-warriors/
As mom used to say, always taking the easy road will lead you straight to hell. In the case of health care, Obama’s taking Americans with him.
Well, he’s still to the left of Bush. But not by nearly enough. And you may be right, that calling it incrementalism is buying too much into the “we’re making as much progress as we can in this difficult political environment where we only have 60 seats in the Senate” frame.
If you perform a second page refresh, you will see your formatting return.
and also to eCAHNomics @ 8
Yep, this post is the middle stage of the awakening of the gullible girl who’s been seduced – she can’t quite bring herself to accept that the guy she gave it up to simply played her, so she makes up a story about how he wants to be good.
All we can know, and all that matters, is what the guy does.
And what this guy does, starting long ago with FISA, is not good. Not for most of us, anyway.
He could push Harry to use the reconciliation process for the public option, for a start.
Maybe it wouldn’t work, what with Harry not being the slickest of Majority Leaders, but it’s guaranteed not to work if it’s never tried.
He’s to the left of Bush, but is in some ways more dangerous because he is broadly taken as representing liberals, progressives, and the left. So if we get signed into law a Reaganite atrocity that he labels “health care ‘reform’” and “change we can believe in” a good chunk of the party’s base will buy into a health care implementation that they would have resisted tooth and nail had Reagan or Bush II pushed it. And the health care implementation (to use just one example) will always be held up to progressives and liberals and leftists who want actual real reform – not Reaganite corporatism, but real reform – as “but you already got what you wanted from Obama … and look how bad it is!”
Understood, thanks. G’night. Thanks for keeping the streets safe.
Yer being way too charitable, Eli…! …Eons, maybe…! ;-)
rachel about to drop a bomb with a Pentagon report.
Eli, your frustration mirrors my own. He’s driving me crazy and sometimes it’s hard to put my finger on it. I had such hope really and sometimes I think his long haul, incremental approach is going to work, and other times I am just desperate for him to come out from behind the desk and actually take a stand.
I still think his intentions are honorable, and I don’t think he really campaigned that much different than he is leading, but really we are in desperate straits out here in middle America and we need to feel someone in the top eschelon is really fighting for us. I’m just not getting that feeling.
I’ve been hanging out at another blog for several months but they’re all wearing “rosy scenario glasses” and I just can’t take it anymore, so I landed here. I got tired of defending Jane, Jon, David, Marcy et al to them and needed the break so here I am.
One of the many reasons I hate conservative Democrats is that not only do they generate shitty legislation, but they stamp that shitty legislation with the Democratic/liberal/progressive brand, which damages the credibility and electability of everyone to the left of Joe Lieberman.
shit. we elected him to do hard, man. at least that’s one reason i voted for him
I never expected him to be a fierce fighter, but I hoped that he might at least be a compelling persuader. So far he’s been neither.
Welcome. Happy to have newbies.
“I still think his intentions are honorable”
Wrong. His intention was to be elected president, everything else was incidental. He said what he had to get elected (get you into bed) and now he doesn’t need you anymore. He never meant to fight the status quo; he wanted to be part of it.
Eli, I really hope there is some change through reconciliation. I am not very hopeful. I really hate the corporatocracy. Really hate it.
Well, that’s certainly possible and I don’t dismiss it out of hand. But I think my ultimate point remains valid, which is that progressives have to become the path of most resistance in order to get anything.
It sure worked for the Senators from Mutual of Omaha and Aetna.
Could not agree more.
I don’t think I realized just how truly corrupt and rotten the system was when the Republicans were in power, because after all, that’s what they always do. But now that the Democrats are in power and doing the exact same thing, that really brings home just how deep the corporations’ hooks are.
So I’m just another homer defending my (former) neighbor Obama – this is how he operates. He is a serial compromiser. He drives both sides nuts. Then after some years go by and he’s worked hard, b/c he really does work hard, he has gotten a lot done. Obama will take what he can get and then try to drive the progress forward in the next effort. He has always been this way, his entire legislative life. Now flame me.
We couldn’t agree more. Have a good night. Dinner and a soiree call.
Oh if only us Dems would’ve been smart enough to make John Edwards our nominee. He SAID these exact same things!
Maybe it will be the straw that breaks the camel’s back when Oraham fails to get EFCA passed. It’s hard you know and the senate, they are tired…
Yep, they are munching down the core of democracy. We can only hope they spit out the seeds.
Yeah Edwards would have worked out great! Are you crazy?
*fuck* Anything above co. level in the ANA is oblivious to war…! Nepotism, absenteeism makes it a non-existent entity…! WTF…???
Thanks Twain
I’ve been reading the threads and comments here for months, especially since HCR really heated up, and have been linking them to “The Plum Line”. I am/was a regular commenter there but needed a break. They have begun to attack me because I have been defending Jane et al and I just got tired of it.
Hey, I wanted Al Gore, but IIRC he was too corporate and centrist for you.
not having a father around,and a mother who was,a bit flaky,has made him too cautious imo…so who does he trust……wait for it………….drumroll…….TINY DANCER…with the biggest foulest mouth,and fake cajones
I agree with one thing you said – he’s driving me nuts.
You aren’t surprised are you?
Why should I flame you? Perhaps people are dismayed at the difference between candidate Obama and POTUS Obama.
Bite on the snark much? :-)
Srsly, Edwards & McCain could have had a ‘you cheated on your wife first’ pie fight for the election! Oh, the Enquirer would’ve love it!
As opposed to every other fucking candidate on earth.
No… but, why the fuck wasn’t it released sooner…? Ain’t no sense in ‘Surging’…!!!
This might help you figure out Obama’s approach. Take off your shoes and socks and count each finger and toe three times.
I’m sorry and I have to tell you a lot of Midwesterners agree with him. Why not just make steady progress instead of screaming and flailing about and getting nothing done at all? We get compromise as a means to an end.
Engel said it was a study still in progress. They could have grabbed any spare 11bravo and got the same info.
Why did McChrystal or DoD sit on it while Amb. Eichenberry was left to dangle…? That’s the true fuckery…! The Betrayus Cabal strikes again…!!! 8-{
I don’t mind compromise but he doesn’t have to do it on everything. All the compromises so far have been bad for the middle class and the poor. That’s not progress IMO.
Perhaps but I didn’t expect him to protect torturers, or go along with the bush idea of FISA. Remember the healthcare debate on CSPAN, yeah me either…. It really doesn’t fucking matter now does it?
They will also lead to Democrats being booted back *out* of power, and seeing all of their paltry incremental progress rolled back as soon as the Republicans retake the White House.
Edwards was still shittin’ yellow when McSFB cheated on his first wife. *g*
I would completely agree that the only way to get things done is to do them oneself. We’re long past the time when Mommy (D) or Daddy (R) will take care of us.
I made the earlier point, about Obama’s MO basically being seduction, because I believe it’s important in the effort to accomplish what some around here are trying to accomplish that we not be distracted by what we imagine anyone believes. What they believe doesn’t matter. What matters is what they do.
P.S. I’m not trying to be unsympathetic to your upset with Obama and the D’s behavior. The moment of awakening is usually painful. Yet that, in the realm of collective consciousness, is exactly why Obama and the D’s have to be such abominations – because otherwise we’ll continue to delude ourselves rather than face the truth and accept our responsibilities.
“Oh, you better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I’m tellin’ you why
Santa Claus is dead.”
- The Smothers Brothers
Guess it does to you huh?
Soooo, ya wanna fill those of us what don have teebee in?
Great post, Eli, and it begs the larger questions, (1) how pure is too pure? and, (2) what can we do to expedite change?
Your point that change is painfully incremental is well taken (or, put another way…), and I think most of us would agree that your characterization of that incrementalism as “cautious” is generous. I call it gridlock, and the health care
shambill is a perfect example of what such gridlock produces. If nothing else, these months of being jerked off by our progressive “leaders” (very loosely, I’m using that term…) have rendered beyond dispute the fact that corporate interests are so intertwined in government that the chances of breaking this cycle and bringing about true, fundamental change with traditional approaches lessen daily, if not hourly.So, say we go non-traditional. Street riots. Flag burning. Whatever. Shock shock horror horror, we are marginalized as too liberal, too scary, too unbending, too reactionary – we must be Communists!
People have floated the idea that our impatience with our leaders’ fear of pushing the progressive agenda and the other side’s parallel disdain for their leaders’ lack of true conservative cred might merge – if only enough to change the system sufficiently that whichever side is in power, it might actually be able to achieve something.
This is a nice theory, but is, of course, a bunch of horseshit.
I know because I actually sat across the table from a business associate a month ago who said THIS president would soon have us all wearing “Mao coats.” I just don’t picture myself marching on Washington with anyone so deluded. Ever. Period.
What I can picture is a simple change to the ballot, in every race, to include an option extended to those (supposedly) representing us: Abstain.
It’s time we stopped our decades-long practice of voting for the lesser of two evils, and time those non-votes were counted. Only when counted votes for incumbents and their challengers are rivaled by those counted as abstaining will the ensconsed parties know fear.
And we seem to have reached a moment where the bases of both parties may – finally – be pissed enough to make that happen.
Crossposted at TheMalcontent.com
“Well, he’s still to the left of Bush. But not by nearly enough.”
Not only not nearly enough, but more importantly; how much longer (before dismantling medicaid,…)
I suspect you’re almost right. He doesn’t strike me as either misogynistic or a homophobe.
Anyway, I have to look back on all those folks who were trying to explain how Obama was a new kind of politics, and how Hillary Clinton was just to divisive [edit] and laugh. I pointed out then that at some point, getting anything done in politics is necessarily divisive. As always, this observation fell on deaf ears. We’ve become people who don’t want to do the hard things, and I think our leaders reflect that.
Richard Engel was on Rachel revealing an in-progress Afghanistan report that says it’s a cluster fuck.
Yes, I saw a lot of HCR debate on C-SPAN
Or any Afghan who could speak English and was tempted to speak his mind.
ding
On the bright side, maybe we could have finally gotten over obsessing about those things.
Obie didnt compromise with the banksters…….they got EVERYTHING they wanted and more……no nationalization
That’s fine, but I don’t think I’m any more “awakened” to Obama being a gutless sellout than I’ve been since, well, FISA. I didn’t conclude that he was evil, but if he was unwilling to fight or show leadership on something as clear-cut as telecom immunity, it was pretty obvious that he wasn’t going to be any kind of strong moral force.
But still a better choice than McCain or, God save us, Palin.
Rove got divorced today.
For Raven @ 71
Oh. Well, shit, there’s a couple million folks coulda told her that.
Finally dig yer butt outta the snow, didja?
Yea, then I had a relative pass away a had to sit through and Southern Baptist funeral today. I did have a nice chat with a USMC Lt Col who’s on his way. . .
god damn the seeds were so cool. brittish invasion rock was the shit
You know what’s really sad?
I scoffed, heartily, at all the right-wing whackjob attacks on him for things like eating arugula and for having no experience and blah blah blah.
I swear though, I feel like I’m starting to agree with them.
He is starting to act more like a poofy effete elite who likes to say many of the right things who ought to be wearing white gloves because God forbid it he might get his hands dirty.
I honestly thought the attacks were baseless, because frankly after 8 years of The Misunderestimator as our head of state…I figured it was really easy to vastly misoverestimate Obama’s personality.
It appears to be coming to fruition and I’ll be damned if I support it again if he thinks he’s getting re-elected after doing fuck all for his base.
I favored Obama only slightly over Hillary, because I thought he was slightly more progressive and he didn’t have as many Mark Penn-type sleazeballs on his team. I also thought his charisma and eloquence would be a valuable asset to win popular support for his still-inadequate agenda so that he wouldn’t have to do his own fighting.
Obviously none of that happened, but I can’t say that I’m convinced Hillary would have been a whole lot better.
the seeds were American.
Sky Saxon was born Richard Elvern Marsh in Salt Lake City, Utah. Different sources suggest a birth year of 1937,[3] 1945[4] or 1946.[5] His widow has said that his birthday was August 20, but would not confirm the year because he believed age was irrelevant.[6]
I don’t think he really campaigned that much different than he is leading
I know you didn’t mean it this way, but I find this to be the most insulting of all the arguments made by Obama ass-kissers. He most certainly did campaign in a fundamentally different way than he is leading. He campaigned on “moral courage,” not “compromise and expedience.” He campaigned for change, but we’re getting no leadership “to the left of the Senate’s most conservative Democrats.”
When he says “I got 95% of what I wanted in the Senate bill,” he is insulting millions of supporters whom he systematically misled. Note that what HE wanted is what is important. I think there is a serious underlying character issue here. He should be saying, “I promised and meant to do more, I tried my best, but fell short, and will do better next time.” That would be a stretch but still somewhat honorable.
No, he tells us that we all misunderstood him. HE got what HE wanted. That is dishonorable and he will pay for it.
Sorry to hear that.
I saw that about Rove earlier. Should be interesting to see who he hooks up with.
Here ya go… Ready or not…
I can relate to that.
that was a magnificent piece , but nothing they’ve done has been “good enough” NOTHING. i cant think of one thing the obamastration has done thats “good enough”.. having pete seger perform at the innagural celebrations was great, but i doubt that was Obamas idea. at least not the relevant obama
Sorry oldgold meant to say negotiations. The deals were made before anything went on in Congress.
It is important to be mindful of the fact that Obama inherited a situation (largely cause by Reagan and exacerbated twenty fold by Dubya) wherein all our money is:
a.) gone
b.) worthless
c.) in the hands of less than one percent of us
d.) Insurance companies and Pharma have a lot of it
Short of revolution, nothing really can change. The powerful entities have too much power.
We knew that Obama would not face them down. He can’t. He is an establishment figure. And therefore a lousy leader.
Who were tha key players in the French Revolution? A guy named Merrotts?
I was for Edwards, and that turned out well. I got behind Obama because the kids were excited about him, and I thought it was a great thing to bring a new generation to democracy. And that turned out well, too. They’ll be back. Or maybe not. Also.
I think the difference is that with Clinton, you knew what you were getting. With Obama, it was all about the persona. What he stood for was something you had to spend a lot of time parsing and comparing to his actions to figure out, and even then there were plenty of questions.
I thought Obama was less progressive than Clinton at the time, and certainly have had no reason to change my mind since. Clinton was just more up front about where she stood.
whine whine. Obama is on the fence. Obama is an opportunist. Hey! He is ONE GUY standing up nose to nose with all the most brutal ogres on the planet. Could some of this whining energy possibly be diverted to movement building? What prez ever did anything cool without massive popular push? If not us, who? If not now, when?
At least she wouldn’t have hired Rahmbo as CoS…! ;-)
I listened to the author of a recent FDR Bio today and he talked quite a bit about how the left and the right vilified the shit out of him. just sayin
Thanks. I didn’t mean “good enough” from our perspective, I meant “good enough” from *their* perspective. “Okay, so there’s no public option and women get totally screwed over, but it’s 5PM on a Friday, so that’s good enough for me – let’s go get a beer.”
when did you get here? your in the middle of some “movement bulding”, we’re just not building it around any charismatic personality, cause we;ve klearned thats a waste of time. if you stick around, you can help with the
movement building”. or building movement, or whatever we wind up with
Hills would have preferred Lanny Davis.
Damn, I’ll have to watch that at work tomorrow. My “High Speed Internet” DSL is about as fast as dial-up. Gonna go have a talk with the folks at the Verizon store tomorrow. Either my modem is trash or Verizon’s infrastructure can’t handle the holiday traffic. My diagnostic tools tell me its the latter.
*heh* duly chastised…! 8-P
My first choice was Gore, who didn’t run. Second choice was Dodd because he was the only one standing up against telecom immunity. Third choice was Edwards because his Two Americas frame was extremely valuable. Obama was my fourth choice, and not by much.
right, i get you. they arent about to go to war for anything or anyones cause. its 9-5 , mon to thursday “change”. i hope your right, and that its not about something darker. i suspect it is, but i suspect a lot of things. lets hope your right.
I was about to laugh, until…
Yeah, she would have.
Obama was just a flip of the Corporatist coin. BV$H was the right side and Obama the left..same coin. Nothing that matters has changed that much. The Plutocrats are still firmly in control and doing as these as they please. Within the Corporatist camp are factions just as outside it there are factions. The left faction if u want to call that is in power now. Maybe a more accurate way of identity within the Corp. world would be the list of Corps. in charge now?
LOL That’s rich.
More to the point, they think it’s good enough for most of the people they favor to be re-elected in 2010. They can go on TV and claim that health care reform is done, and all the folks who think this is “momentum” or “progress” will be happy and go vote for them. By the time the bill comes due the repercussions will be someone else’s problem, at least for Obama.
Yeah, I missed the boat on that one. I think another part of it was that her troop withdrawal plan wasn’t much of a withdrawal plan.
Of course, I think it might be the one Obama’s using…
The Dems nominate candidates like Clinton and Obama because our country is center right in its political disposition.
I wish it were otherwise, but that is the fact.
He had me with “Two Americas,” too. lol
Then why would ever you write “It’s not that Obama doesn’t want to do good”?
That’s simply projecting your own internal character, your own hope and belief, onto Obama (a behavior which was, of course, precisely the goal of the marketing slogans “Hope” and “Change We Can Believe In”).
I don’t understand how you can say you feel frustrated, which suggests an unfulfilled hope, and also say it was clear to you since FISA he was a gutless sellout unwilling to fight or show leadership.
Just to emphasize, I’m not criticizing, I’m asking for clarification of a position that to me seems cognitively dissonant.
(BTW, beware the salesman’s false dichotomy, that Obama was a good choice because McCain was so much worse. Both choices were garbage – though again, that’s what we’re all supposed to be recognizing.)
I figure we don’t have a lot of choice but to push him. That said, I think pushing Congress is more important.
thats why its SOOOO important to get the mssg out to anyone who will listen about what a complete and literal rip off this bill is. hey wheres the “movement” person who was complaining about all the “whining”??
Hillary has a great position. Instead of using it for peace, reason and common sense, truth telling, common cause, not bullshitting, etc.
She supports US Hegemony in the ME and she warmongers with AIPAC for Iranian destruction.
All indications are that Hillary would have been a lot like Obama.
I remember when Hillary was here at FDL and that she ran away like Harry Reid did (also) from uncomfortable pertinent questions.
There is no daylight between the two. She was up front about it, he lied.
‘Americans don’t care what you believe as long as you’re not a pussy.’ – Bill Maher
And that right there is why he will have only one term. Good riddance.
He had me with “Two Americas,” too. lol
It just wasn’t obvious what he was really referring to at the time.
I used to resent the whole Naderite argument of “Oh, Democrats and Republicans are all the same, they’re all corporate tools and it doesn’t matter who you vote for”, but after a year of watching Obama and this Congress in action it’s starting to become more compelling.
I still think there are some Democrats in Congress who aren’t great big corporatists, but they’re not in the majority (Exhibit A: Harry Reid is still Majority Leader).
Good Post!
I’m wit dat but all this calling him all kinds of name is just not for me. Just to run was insanely dangerous and I know you know that. I get tired of this remington raider shit.
How was 2000 thru 2008 for addressing progressive concerns?
I think where he convinced me was this speech. Of course, he might not have meant a word of it, but it rang true to me. It sounded like something that fit who he was and where he came from. Contrast it with the wishy-washy New Age pablum that Obama was selling.
The next election will cost about 2 billion, try to raise that from the grass roots up.
It was a great message. Too bad he turned out to be a wanker, and that no other Democrat wanted anything to do with it (even before he got exposed).
Axelrod
Pretty much the same as it is now. Americans get screwed, corporations get even more insanely rich.
I saw that as more pushback from the brass against the Prez. Shorter Engel: Obama doesn’t know what he’s talking about or dealing with.
Setting the table to heap the blame on Obama as Afghanistan hits the skids.
President Obama should have pulled out. Instead he gave McChrystal 75% of what he wanted. Leaving the blame to be placed fully in Obama’s lap because the military didn’t get everything they wanted.
-G
Slightly worse than 2009 – [edit] on average.
Even with only one term Obama will have served his function – by appearing significantly different, to distract attention from the crimes of the Bush era while simultaneously allowing them to continue.
he was fucked either way
My belief is that Obama wants to do good, as long as it’s not hard and he doesn’t have to make any kind of sacrifices for it (campaign donations, political capital, etc.). In other words, I think he’s weak rather than evil, and have thought so ever since FISA.
But I will admit that I didn’t expect him to underplay such a strong hand as badly as he has (which I’ve also been critical of for several months).
Gotta admit, Axelrod knows his public. But then, so did P.T. Barnum. They both understood the demographics.
Edwards: “I am not holier than thou. I am not perfect by any means.”
He was just trying to tell us in a nice way that he was getting some strange on the side.
I think he’s weak rather than evil
Change we can believe in.
Critical thinking is, in large measure, about making distinctions and then assessing their meaning.
Sloganeering is fine, but it seldom moves the discussion forward.
Which, as I tried to demonstrate, means you might as well do the right thing and be fucked for the right reason.
I saw Edwards a couple of times up close and even talked to him. Yes, it was a great image and rang true for a good campaign. But then, well, too (many) Americas, and it just fell apart.
And two Americas or more, we still have it, worse than ever. I am really just sick sick sick over the corporate giveaway that is “the best we can do.” I guess the best we can do for Aetna and Mutual of Omaha. Those two Americas are doing just fine.
I agree. As with most here, I had great hopes that are getting dashed.
I am not big on piling on to the President because I think the alternatives are truly monstrous.
-G
And who’s up next?
yea, well it’s great fun
You are correct. Obama is walking into a one-term trap and he is taking as many Dems with him as he can.
What a dumbass Obama is to willingly hold and caress Dubya’s hot potato(es).
At this point, I believe it is possible that the Republicans and Diebold could sell us Palin/Petraeus in a 49.4 to 49.6 split.
Obama’s “centrist” Supreme Court appointment(s) will seal the deal for the Republican party (again).
Then why did he take on HCR, an extraordinarily diificult issue, as opposed to school uniforms?
Weak or evil? What a false construct! He is a realist. He gets what he can, when he can.
I guess it was really critical for Obama to make deals with the insurance industry to give them a trillion dollars in corporate wellfare. It must have also been critical for Obama to protect those who tortured and committed war crimes. It surely must have been critical to go along with FISA, Warrantless wiretaps, exexcutive privilege, indefinite detention…
Exactly GregB, what are the alternatives? There are not enough of us to elect a progressive President so we always have to settle for the lesser of two or more evils. In the meantime we keep pushing.
Yes, getting reelected is the most important thing for the Dems, and yes, campaigning is by far what Obama’s best at. However, it has become obvious that in order for his administration to be successful, the Dems have to keep/increase their majorities. Obama’s attempt at bipartisanship has proven less than useless. For the 2010 elections, Obama can’t afford to alienate voters in close races – ie – the voters he’s bending over backward for lately. I’m a long-term progressive, and I find the situation frustrating, but I do understand it, which helps. I also try to recall how it felt when Bush was still in office, talk about frustration.
I don’t think he was going to get elected if Hillary had a healthcare reform plan and he didn’t. So he made his token potemkin effort, and is trying to get that box checked off so he can declare Mission Accomplished.
Eli,
I know this will sound almost like a Wayne’s World line (or for some, sarcasma), but I mean every single word of it (in a very manly way)
I. F U C K I N G. L O V E. Y O U R. A R T I C L E S !!!!!!
Every single fucking one of them. Keep on hurting them with the truth every single fucking minute of the day.
PS: love what you’re doing too Jane.
True…! Hence take the practical course…! Get the fuck out before another SM dies for a failed cause…!
Well, he has time to prove himself. I do know he is dealing with a bunch of crap for Senators, and I am not giving up.
I did hear some of “Native America Calling” today which is a nationwide talking circle on NA issues. They are pretty happy with what they are getting from the WH.
There is some optimism left.
Aw thanks, man. That really does mean a lot to me (also not sarcasm).
McCain’s 5K tax credit for health insurance seems like not such a bad idea after the abortion that Obama/Rham/Lieber/Baucusco created.
preachin to the choir, homes.
It all just make me want to scream.
-G
Obama ran as a progressive president, and won. This is his failure, not the country’s or voters. He sold out everyone who voted for what he claimed he believed. Things aren’t done and over for progressives, we just got lied to by a smug little yuppie with a complete lack of character. I don’t blame anyone but Obama for what he does.
This is NOT a center-right nation, it’s a center right government who wants people to believe it represents them.
Obama was a crap Senator himself once. Joe Lieberman was his mentor.
Obama’s greatest moment was his speech delivered at the side of that other Grey Poupon afficionado, John Kerry.
OBAMA did you go to Harvard? Really?
“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to RUIN among the great number who are not good. HENCE a prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires.
NICCOLO MACHIAVELLI
The CORPORATE ELITE hates the PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT, and their greatest fear in 2008, was that a true PROGRESSIVE WOULD RISE AND TAKE OVER THE WHITE HOUSE. The CORPORATE ELITE SOLD US OBAMA to keep a TRUE PROGRESSIVE out of the WHITE HOUSE.
PROGRESSIVES NEED TO READ SUN TZU “THE ART OF WAR”
“In times of Peace Prepare For War
in times of War Prepare for Peace
War is always constant.”
Believe me, I’ve been trying.
Remind me what outfit you were in Patton?
Don’t you have to make money and pay taxes before getting a tax credit?
I know. How is it that Joe always gets in the middle of everyone? He has the touch.
Feel free to turn down the volume (all-caps). We can hear you just fine.
Thanks.
Hey Imsinca, I’ve seen your comments at “the other blog” too, and I don’t go there much any more either. I discovered blogs at FDL, and I sample a few others but mostly hang out here. I hear ya about rosy glasses, and I’ve finally gotten tired of the atmosphere over there.
Welcome to the Lake!
Yep. He’s neoliberal. No need to deal with it on any other level than that. Unproductive. The objective is right there in front of us and we need to at a minimum turn it away from the right.
Yes. But this bill that the Dems put forth is worse than a tax credit.
Well, if I understand your question correctly (and I’m not sure I do), if the 300,000,000 of us out here wake up and accept our responsibilities (to manage the people in “government” like the employees they are, rather than worship them as the parents and saviors we’d hoped they’d be), then it doesn’t matter who’s up next.
Because if we’re out here doing our job, any group we hire to perform those chores for us will succeed.
And if we’re not, then any group we hire will fail.
True leadership begins at home, with each of us.
He went through this hell and spent his political capital to erect a HCR Potemkin Village and check a box off so he can say “mission accomplished?”
That is quite an assertion.
And then there is that wimp ass Kerry, never did nothin but float around in those safe and secure PBR’s. . .:)
Don’t you just love how we lecture Karzai about how he simply must clamp down on the corruption in his government?
This bill is worse than walking through hell on Sunday.
Helloooooo, #168!
Essentially, we need the government to report to us, rather than to corporate donors. At least the religious right’s power stems (mostly) from actual voting power.
At the beginning of this year, we had a new President with majorities in both the House and Senate. He could have asked for the moon and pretty much got it. Instead we got the occasional (perhaps even inadvertent) spasm of forward motion. He can still make some rational demands, but the political capital has been severely diminished over the past year, and (consequently) the path ahead will require much more slogging than would have been the case otherwise.
He went through hell to become President Of The United States. HCR was one of the means to that end.
When I got sneered at (by Tena) because I said I didn’t base my opinions on FDL but try to educate myself and form my own opinions, that’s when I decided I’d had enough. It wasn’t the sneering, although that bugged me, it was just the putdowns of anyone who frequents FDL that finally got to me.
Maybe the poor guy is just spent. Tired out. His mojo got up and went. He needs Vitamin D or something. He certainly acts depressed.
Why are we tiptoeing around about Obama’s basic weak character and evidence of that being his inability to STAND up for any principles. How about his abstentions when he was a Senator. This individual is basically a passive aggressive with no spine. Tell it like it is.
The “hell” you’re referring to was going to happen anyway, whether he did anything or not. He did this to garner support, presumably from all the people who are making excuses for him now.
Yes, he does.
I didn’t expect Obama to be able to do everything he said he wanted to – or promised to. But I wanted him to TRY and he hasn’t done that. I think what he does about Dawn Johnsen will be telling.
If ever there was someone who needed a stiff dose of political [blue pill that must not be named]…
Um, I think he’s already done it. Or not done it, as the case may be.
Let’s stop making excuses for Obama. FDR was in a wheelchair when he LED, inspired and transformed. I’m tired of all the deferential treatment accorded the Messiah O who is selling out to corporations.
As President he could have easily side stepped this. He could have convincingly argued that given the financial crisis, HCR had to wait. Instead, he took on this thorniest of issues.
Don’t confuse courage with your ideology.
PCFs. At least they were aluminum. PBRs had a lottttta plastic on ‘em.
Incrementalism would be all well and good in good times. We are not in good times.
When your house is on fire you don’t put it out with water one tablespoon at a time.
Several other memorable quotes from Sun Tzu…
And, as I said earlier, the left was all over FDR.
Isn’t the Senate Hell? I mean, it pretty much seems to me that the Senate is Hell, right there where JoeLies.
We need to get some democracy into the Senate.
He already did that. We got the bailouts and the stimulus first, *then* we got HCR, very sloooowwwwwly.
Shit, Swifts! Wonder if there were any clues to that anywhere :)
That whole idea just sounds so crazy now: “Let’s go up the river in a plastic boat to where people can shoot us from both sides.” Pretty much a microcosm of the whole effort, I suppose.
And dump agent orange on the banks so if Charlie doesn’t get ya Mr C will. Those squids did look glamorous when you were driving those dirt roads!
I guess when the right said their whole mission in life was to make sure Obama failed they were only joking.
Came late. There reason that Obama runs with the Blue Dogs is because he is a Blue Dog. I don’t buy this cautious, hesitant whatever. His DOJ’s legal arguments are just as extreme as Bush’s. There is no caution or path of least resistance in escalating in Afghanistan. He favored the multi-trillion dollar bailouts to corrupt bank fraudsters even before he became President but there was no holding back with those either.
late night upstairs
I am not making excuses. I don’t like the rat bastard but I do think he is depressed.
There are enough Democrats to make them irrelevant, but Obama never pursued that path.
It was exciting, I’ll give it that. *g*
It’s a pretty sorry state of affairs when we’re arguing about whether a Democratic president is evil or just chickenshit…
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama on Tuesday ordered the federal government to rethink how it protects the nation’s secrets, in a move that was expected to declassify more than 400 million pages of Cold War-era documents and curb the number of government records hidden from the public.
The Villagers seem to like saying he’s “calm”. Why do you think it’s because he’s depressed?
I agree with you.
Obama like his hero Ronald Reagan the actor, Obama acted like a progressive during the 2008 campaign, Obama is a blue dog.
In the senate his mentor was not Bernie Sanders, but Joe Lieberman.
He seems a lot flatter than in the campaign.
You are kidding, right?
This is the first major piece of progressive legislation in over four damn decades. He is on the verge of having something that has been thwarted for over 100 years passed in his first year, amidst the second worst finacial meltdown in a century and in the middle of two wars with a damn near treasonous oppositional party fighting him every step of the way and you claim he is moving sloooowwwwly!
Or there may be no compass there there. As Vince Lombardi said, “Winning isn’t everything. It’s the only thing.” Wonder if he was from Chicago.
No, he paid them handsomely to cover for him and ended up getting what he wanted the entire time. He is the one who made a deal with Pharma up front so they wouldn’t “block” reform. How inept does one have to be to make healthcare even worse than it already is now?
So you don’t remember the Baucus Caucus batting it around in unproductive circles for month after month, pretending that there was some compromise that the Republicans would agree to?
If he’s depressed maybe it means that he is hearing the rage out here in the country. That would be a good thing.
They weren’t trying to kill us with death panels. They were doing it with boredom.
Maybe. We will see.
No, you’re kidding right… This major piece of legislation is probably going to finish bankrupting me in order for my child to receive the healthcare he needs to live. This legislation is only monumental in the amount of money it gives to insurance companies.
Oh, in your previous comment I thought you were arguing that he was a helpless victim of the right’s power and diabolicness.
Exactly. Completely different situations. As I’ve maintained several times around here, Obama did and continues to build from the bottom up, and for me this is the overriding factor in all of this. Gore/Clinton did and continue a top-down approach to….well, basically everything.
The how-to and the promoting of Organizing by Obama will be the key to every issue that comes up over the next few years and decades. My local OFA group is amazing and is far from mindless Obamatrons. Much disagreement amongst the group on all kinds of things (I’m personally still having a hard time with the Afghan developments), but they are able to keep their “eyes on the prize” on core issues and work locally to get things done. It’s been truly exciting to be a part of, and it’s happening at levels I’ve never experienced in my years of working on political campaigns. I attribute much of it to the tone set by Obama. He’s changed the way I approach conflict, and I’ve felt that I’ve become more effective in my own advocacy. It’s not blind allegiance…it’s just simple fact.
Gore picked Joe Lieberman as his VP. Let’s think about what that would mean. Lieberman could very well be the President right now. The whole “Nader brought Shrub” debate is beyond tired, so I’m not into going there, but President Lieberman was surely a possibility had Gore won, and it was clear what Lieberman was even back then.
Plus, what’s really different for me is the incredible amount of Change that has happened since we’ve had President Barack Hussein Obama. Of course, if someone gets their information from MegaMedia or most leading Liberal blogs, they never hear about that stuff. Oh well, to each their own.
Anyway, I’m starting to think these endless circular blog debates with people talking past each other don’t matter much. There’s so much happening on local levels and with younger folks that I’m excited about what all this is going to mean for future generations as they wage these same battles that have existed for centuries. I think Obama has done much to empower them by making Organizing “cool” again. At the same time though, I’m also thankful that we have these new avenues for political pressure today, even I when I disagree with the strategies, and overall it’s a win-win for democracy as a whole. Onward and upward!
I think he’s doing pretty much what he wants to, within the limits set for him by the financial industries and other big contributors. He no doubt has convinced himself he’s doing good. I emphatically disagree with his self-assessment. Not sure where in the chickenshit – evil spectrum that puts him, but I suppose that makes him more toward the evil side.
In case anyone was wondering. ;)
Tell me more about the local developments.
Jeez, I’m so sorry to hear that. Obama built his campaign on stories like yours, and now he’s throwing you under the bus. “Frustrates” was far too mild a word.
I am personally stoked about my city’s 49% unemployment rate. Woofuckinghoo!
Let me know when OFA’s bottom-up organizing convinces Obama to insist on a public option, or real financial reform.
Thanks Eli. It’s what drives me to keep fighting, and what makes me willing to do what has to be done to defeat the corporate whores that make such sadness possible.
Have to disagree – he is not building from the bottom up. WE are the bottom – his rock solid base and the Progressives would have stood with him on the issues from his campaign. He not only threw us aside but his people make fun of us and Rahm says “we have the left in hand” – yeah, right. Dream on, Rahm – you ain’t seen nothing yet.
Don’t you live in Cali?
Insurance companies are classic middlemen. They don’t get to keep the trillion! The great bulk of the trillion is ultimately going to be spent providing health care to tens of millions of Americans.
Now, I agree a single payer system would have been better, but that wasn’t even remotely possible, given the political landscape.
I agree completely, with the understanding that government – at all – is a stage of social development to be moved beyond.
It’s inherent in the word “govern.”
I don’t believe that when we’re fully and actively living our responsibility as adults to both contribute to our society and to value each other that any of us needs “govern”-ing. We might need guidance, we might even need help, but the notion of being both free and willingly connected to each other inherently transcends the need, like children, to be “governed.”
Such distinctions may seem trivial or obvious, but as long as we think in terms of “government,” of being governed, then we’ll never reach the point where we’re the government and they’re the servants. “How do we get our government to take care of us?” is a very different point of view, with different abilities, than “How do we get our employees to do their job?”
And even that consciousness has value only as we move beyond it, to our destiny of willingly and lovingly contributing to each other and our common good.
Yes. However, me and my husband both work and make too much money for assistance. Just not enough to afford all the out of pocket expenses. 1 of the meds alone is 1,300. monthly.
Can you explain why the insurance stocks are going through the roof. That usually means the compaines are expecting HUGE profits.
How does this legislation damage your current situation?
If you divorced would that help the income situation at all? You never know. Or could one of you freelance and write off a portion of your rent/mortgage? I am sure you have thought of all of this.
Your situation pisses me off more than my situation pisses me off. A lot more.
Yes, I remember that. But, given our Constituttional system and the enormity and complexity of the task, I don’t consider several months to be unusually slow.
That’s one of the most frustrating things about the system – there are all sorts of plateaus like this. Go above a particular income figure, and all of a sudden you may be looking at medical expenses you can’t afford. I’m sorry you’ve been caught in this. Is what you’re paying the insurance industry price, or what they charge individuals?
part of the answer is right there @ 224
$1,300 per mo vs say, $ 700 or so in Canada. That’s some fucking outrage right there, and that went out the door when it was closed. – some trick, wouldn’t you say?
What a sham.
No.
The insurance companies keep about 25 percent of what they take in. Nothing about the new health care bills is going to change that, because there is no enforcement written into the Senate bill, and as David Dayen pointed out today, no one in the conference appears to care about that. The insurance companies will say they’re now only keeping 10 or 15 percent (whichever ends up applying), and since there will be no agency that will verify that and make them pay if it’s not true, they’ll get away with it.
My view on government is that it is partly to make sure that everyone is playing by the same set of rules and the strong (or unethical) aren’t preying on the weak, but most of it is keeping the gears turning, stuff like infrastructure, education, Social Security/Medicare (ideally public option, or better yet single-payer, would be in there), etc.
So I don’t really view the government as a boss, more like an enormous service organization that we pay for with our taxes, with cops to keep the miscreants from taking over.
Right now our government is failing on both counts: It’s not enforcing the laws – or, more accurately, it’s enforcing them very selectively, and the services aspect is inadequate and failing after BushCo. spent the last 8 years gutting and sabotaging it.
And, of course, the fact that our government right now is completely and totally unresponsive to its nominal bosses, because our elected officials have calculated that lots of campaign money is all they need to evade accountability for their actions.
you approve of Obama’s promised transparency being persecuted behind closed doors?!
We pay individually for my son, and then group for the rest of the family. We both make decent money but when you’re paying 1,000 + a month in out of pocket it’s financially devastating. We’ve tapped out almost everything we have. We will soon cash in what is left of our 401K which is not much since we lost a substantial portion of that in 3 days, thanks to the banks.
Is this the change we can believe in?
worse, they will be tempted to increase premiums to make up for 15% ( enforceable?!) setback. And they’ll have ample time to do it.
This isn’t a dictatorship. I feel the “bully pulpit” argument is really overblown. The Congress is incredibly corrupt, and that’s what he has to work with.
I’m not convinced the 50 votes for reconciliation on healthcare is a given, considering at least 10 Infiltrator “Democrats” in the Senate quite possibly would not support it claiming it would be too “radical” or “undemocratic” or some other stupid made-up shit they always come up with. The MegaMedia would happily amplify their message without any counter argument whatsoever. Just as they always do. We only have 58 Democrats (real plus Infiltrators) as is. FDR and LBJ each had roughly 68 and several Repubs that would back them with enough incentive.
How many things has Obama signed so far without one single Repub vote? Knowing the answer is “many,” I don’t get why so many are calling him a sell-out and too willing to compromise. Especially since in his first few days as President, Obama reversed most of Shrub’s Executive Orders and has done hardly only of his own (are there any at all?), it seems to me he’s following the intent of a Representative Republic, and not acting like a dictator. This is good.
Unfortunately, for so many years the system has been perverted and people have been electing corrupt politicians, but I believe if we keep engaging more of the public and teaching them how get involved in the political process, we’ll be able to wrestle control away from the MegaRich. Obama and others are helping greatly in this regard, and will continue to as long as they’re in office. There’s no comparison on the Dem side to what Obama is doing in my lifetime at least.
No, they don’t keep 25%. You probably know lots of people that recieve a good deal of that 25% for labor, goods and services.
That is what scares me the most.
Won’t this legislation improve your situation by capping annual out of pockets?
Yeah like the 43,000 that die each year because they don’t get taken care of. Still wondering what your take is on those healthcare stocks? Why do you suppose there is a sharp upward rise?
How can you come to the conclusion that obama “wants to do right”, but only in the end does right for his corporate “clients”. And then you go on to write that the progressive democrats in Congress are afraid of crossing obama becoz he may cut off campaign funding for them … when the hell has obama ever played hardball with the corporatist democrats????!!!! Isn’t pretty clear that he does not “want to do right” for us, the people????
Don’t be an apologist, be an objectivist. Don’t be one of the legions that try to lay the groundwork for their credibility by how much they criticize obama … and then go on to make excuses for him based upon what a fantastic and well-meaning person he is. What a great guy, he sets the parameters for health care “reform” such that probably a 100,000 people will die between now and when the “reform” would go into effect becoz they do not have insurance. Meanwhile this allows him and his scumbag chief of staff to run in 2012 on the threat of the republicans repealing health care “reform” if they get elected and denies people to opportunity to judge HIS “reform” … all of which benefit his re-election prospects. Great guy, huh? Wake up …
Z
There are NO cost controls. It will only cap the amount of money the insurance company will have to pay out yearly. They are suddenly going to decide to cover prescription drugs they aren’t covering now. Could you afford 1,300 a month? Do you think that is reasonable. THere are thousands of people like us.
Why not have both? It seems inhumane to make them choose.
Yes, they keep it. It doesn’t go to paying medical care. Medicare, by contrast, keeps less then 3 percent. Non-profit insurance companies keep about 5 percent.
Right now the insurance companies only pay out 66% of the premiums that they take in on health care. they also spend more on advertising than on r and d. That effectively makes my doctor a drug dealer.
and they make more vanity drugs than drugs that cure disease. They have pretty much stopped creating the antibiotics that we need.
No, I was talking about all the progressive organizations that support Obama unquestioningly no matter how big a shit sandwich he tries to feed to his base.
But I agree that he consistently accommodates conservative Democrats instead of pressuring them, for two main reasons:
1) Historically, progressive Democrats have been far more likely to fold, which is why I’m talking about the path of least resistance.
2) He doesn’t want to piss off the insurance/pharma industry because he’s afraid they’ll shift more money away from Dems and towards Republicans, as well as unleashing the Harry & Louises of war.
Believe me, I am *not* an apologist for Obama. I think he’s a cowardly moral weakling who is unwilling to fight for anything and, yes, is willing to cut a deal with the devil if he thinks it will improve his position.
His desire to do good is about on par with his publicly stated desire to pass the public option; i.e., it’s nice to have, but if he has to pay for it, well, it’s expendable and he’ll make do with whatever he can get.
I’m currently going with ‘chickenshit’. Maybe I’ll go with ‘evil’ next year.
Well, they’ve only been working on it for what, eight, nine months? And it’s still not passed.
Shit, no wonder he is depressed. :)
First, as Nate Silver has demnstrated, the health insurance stock boom story, for the most part, is an urban legend.
Second, to the extent it isn’t, like Medicare, this legislation will probably benefit insurance companies bottom line to some extent.
I know this legislation is far from perfect. But, it is about as much as is available at the present time.
Still, I am interested in how it works to your disadvantage as opposed to the status quo.
Yeah, that’s about where I’m at.
and the longer they work on it the worse it gets.
What r and d would insurance companies be doing?
Oh sorry. I somehow started talking about big pharma. I think someone referred to it a ways back. Or I conflated the two industries. Sorry about that.
No, their stock, like the banks, is going up now. Nate doesn’t know everything, and he’s not connecting all the dots on this bill.
Okay. Just within the last couple of weeks, there were several “Rapid Response” phone banking sessions at volunteers’ houses. Yes, there’s some discontent within the group about the watered down proposals, but people are able to rally around the idea of stopping the Repub/MegaMedia misinformation campaigns, and having respectful conversations with random people in “red” states. We’re getting them to at least examine their beliefs and who knows how many might be quietly changing their own opinions, and how many might be event trying to convince others around them.
I know of a house party where around 40 people gathered to discuss strategy on how best to influence some local issues down to the City Council level.
There was a”splinter” group that started which wants to take some of the skills they’ve learned working on Obama’s campaign and use them for marijuana legalization campaigns, which has really picked up steam locally.
There are continual door-to-door groups active almost weekly I’d say (right now mostly about healthcare).
Earlier, there were counter rallies at the teabagger events, and there’s the continual education about how to Organize, which is an art form in itself.
Just a partial list, but I’ve never seen so many people so motivated and active in an “off season” in my adult life. This is good I think.
No, they have been working on this since Teddy Roosevelt.
For every Nate I’ll show you 2 anti Nates.
The way to fix it is to kill it, then to kill the filibuster rule, vote on Medicare+5 and pass it with 50 +veep.
I like that. Sounds like what was happening in my neighborhood in the last off year election. Is this in California, too.
I’ve already told you. Do you think drug prices or what we pay for healthcare is going to suddenly go down without cost control. Is it okay that my family pays 1,300 a month out of pocket because it isn’t you.
Aetna the day Obama was inaugurated was at 31. Today it is at 32.86.
The Dow at inauguration was at 8077. Today it is at 10545.
Insurance stock boom?
A stronger stock market doesn’t help a jobless recovery. It just makes the people in the top ten or fifteen percent a little happier. It doesn’t feed the hungry kids at the bottom of the economy or buy health care for the millions that don’t have it.
No, it isn’t OK. I am sorry you are facing this tragic hardship.
Still, I ask you how this legislation is worse for you than the status quo.
TheS&P 500, a broad indicator of the market, fluctuates but is largely unchanged. However, all the health insurers fell towards the end of September, for an average loss of about 12%. They stayed down throughout October. However, they started rising in November to reverse their losses. Last week they all moved again.This time to gain over the S&P. In sum, over the last three months, these stocks have posted an average 10% gain, after making up their losses. That’s about a 20% swing in value. That’s a big move compared to the overall market.
Well, I disagree with that. As an early Obama supporter who’s been having almost this exact same debate for about 2 years, I’d say most leading Liberal blogs were mostly Edwards, and Clinton 2nd. Sure, most ended up voting for Obama reluctantly, but I’d hardly call that being “the base.” Even while many Liberal blogs were supporting the “lesser of two evils” in their opinions, they were at the same time ripping him (often unfairly in my opinion)
The base is the Obamatrons, and they don’t have much of a voice around Liberal blogs.
No. I wish. My activity will be there soon though…
Aetna just dumped a shit load of people because they weren’t profitable enough. It was all over cable.
on cloture:
Aetna is up 5 percent
Cigna is up 6 percent
Humana is up 4 percent
UnitedHealth is up 5 percent
Wellpoint is up 4 percent
Remember the Wall Street Melt down?
My point was that this legislation hasn’t caused health care stocks to rocket upward as was alleged up-thread.
But, altho a rising stock market isn’t directly tied to improving the job market, it will impact it in a positive direction.
It is worse because it doesn’t help. They fucking need help. They thought they would get help. They will be forced to participate in a system that takes their money and gives it to millionaires while their child is still very ill. It ain’t rocket science, dood. It is an immoral structure. It could be fixed. It was not.
Oh and I do credit Howard Dean for this activity as much, if not more than Obama, so I’m guessing the 50 State Strategy helped in these recent past “off seasons?” Of course, the development of the Internet has helped too!
Yes. The internet showed me away to reconnect to the grassroots community. And I really like Howard Dean.
You mean trickle down doesn’t work?!? I’ve been told all these years that the rich will re-model their bathrooms more often as they make more money, which in turn will feed poor children because of all the extra subcontractor work. It’s not that simple? Damn.
I am thinking of taking up tiling.
Of course, there were always those who continued organizing in the traditional sense all along, but some of these modern developments sure helped get results faster and more easily. It sure seems to me there a lot of people new to organizing getting involved for the first time just recently. Just want to build upon the momentum.
Thank you, could never have articulated my feeling so well.
Yes. And I need to get back into the mix. I worked pretty hard over the last eight years but have dropped back in the last six months. I need to get motivated again.
You are welcome, my dear.
I don’t see Obama doing anything but being a Republican. Sure he’s not the sniggering a$$ that Duhbya was , but in the end that doesn’t make any difference to me. And while the WMD lie was the whopper of the millennium, tricking progressives into voting for a Republican pretending to be a Democrat that was for universal health care has got to be a candidate for stealing the whopper of the millennium status.
Huffington Post headline:
MOVE YOUR MONEY
A New Year’s Resolution: Transfer Your Money From Big Banks To Community Banks
20% of Americans: What Money?!?
When you become active in Ca. let me know.
Any money. Take any little bit of money you may have and go to a bank or credit union that won’t charge you $75 for an overdraft. The big banksters are rimming the people who can least afford it.
No, that isn’t the definition of worse. It might be inadequate, but it isn’t worse.
I wield a pretty mean caulk gun myself.
Although, if that trickle down idea was true, Not-Joe the Not-a-Plumber would’ve been too busy to be throwing around a football that fateful day way back when. And he wouldn’t have been in debt owing child support, and you’d think he’d be able to at least get the basic plumbing license with all that trickled-down cash.
That would be true if we were operating as a democracy but that boat has sailed. What we have is corrupt royalty and Obama is acting like an old King that lets others do all the deciding.
Right on. Funny enough, I’m a CA native and moved away when Jerry Brown was Gov. Now it looks like he could be Gov when I move back! How weird is that?
Apparently, you can only have a bathroom retiled so many times before you reach a point of diminishing returns.
You don’t understand. It is worse because it won’t give the help needed. People cannot sustain that level of stress for long. That is why it is worse. It wears you down in the most grievous way. It is worse because you were told it would get better. It is worse because you feel you were lied to. It is worse because you have been abandoned again for the benefit of people who don’t need what they are getting.
And I think you are playing with words rather than being honest with your argument.
When prices go up, and they will because there is no cost control in this legislation it will be worse. When my son is denied sufficienct care because his insurance can take their sweet ass time (because now there are more people) deciding whether or not they will cover something will make it worse. When we have to wait weeks or months to see his specialist (Also known as rationing) it will be worse.
“That boat has sailed?” When was this Republic a democracy?
It certainly is more democratic today than the day th Constitution was adopted.
And he’s not even close to being the worst choice.
No point Mary…. it’s one of those I’ve got mine fuck you. No compassion, no caring about what these people are doing to real families that work their assess of, play by the rules, and still get fucked. I don’t owe someone that clueless any more explanation.
Oldgold,
Please read the following quote and tell me that you approve.
“Senate Banking Committee Chair Chris Dodd put forth a strong legislative proposal, one far better than the administration’s plan. When the Committee’s senior Republican, Alabama’s Richard Shelby, scorned that in an extended rant, Dodd decided to pair up Democrats and Republicans on the committee to come up with bipartisan solutions. And now reports suggest that a bipartisan plan may well be unveiled in January, with Dodd pushing for an early vote.
Hold onto your wallets. We don’t yet know what is in the bipartisan bill, but we do know what has been kicked to the curb. Shelby announced one price for his cooperation: no new agency to protect consumers from financial fraud or abuse. Want Republican cooperation? Then the proposed Consumer Financial Protection Agency – with a mandate to police everything from mortgage fraud to preposterous bank overdraft charges – is verboten. Grateful banking lobbyists will insure him a lucrative retirement.”
Yes. It is tiring.
I am going to take a break. See you all a little later. I am thinking about you tbsa.
I agree this legislation doesn’t do enough to control the cost curve. That is my biggest problem with it.
I think the reform aspects will be more helpful for your situation than
you think.
Nite MaryMc :)
“I think he’s a cowardly moral weakling who is unwilling to fight for anything and, yes, is willing to cut a deal with the devil if he thinks it will improve his position.”
Well said, and completely on target.
Another quote: This time Obama’s: I got 95% of what I WANTED in this Senate Bill.” Yeah, by backroom bribes.
Egomaniac who cares nothing for those who put him in office.
You have a problem with the feature of this bill?
I try to engage you in a serious and civil discussion. In return you gratuitously insult me by claiming I “have no compassion” and I am one of those “I’ve got mine fuck you.”
I think it says more about you than me.
Yes, I have many problems with this bill. The most pronounced is its failure to adequately bend the cost curve.
Oldgold,
This should give you an good picture of the picture others than you see in this Legislation.
By DAVE LINDORFF
Paul Krugman, one of the few liberal columnists writing for the New York Times, claims that at some point in the hoary past when he “began writing a lot about health care,” he was in favor of a Canadian-style single-payer health care system. He adds that even today if he thought there was “any chance of creating Medicare for All any time in the next decade,” he would be “pushing for single-payer now.”
But on Christmas day, Krugman threw in the towel, calling on progressives to support the Senate’s version of health care legislation. Suggesting that the so-called Senate Health Reform Bill, if it had been the law back in Dickens’ time in England, would have saved Tiny Tim without any need for the belated charitable intervention of Ebenezer Scrooge, Krugman says progressives should recognize that the Senate bill is the best they can hope for, and that they need to accept that politics is “the art of the possible.”
Krugman goes on to say that despite some “flaws and limitations,” which he leaves unexplained, the Senate bill is “a big win” for progressives–and for America.”
But is it?
Certainly the Senate bill, and the only slightly less cruddy House version, with which it must be reconciled (let’s be clear here that the ultimate act, when passed, will much more closely hew to the Senate version than the House version, given the number of conservative Democrats in the Senate), does a few good things, such as increasing funding for community health clinics, expanding Medicaid, the health insurance system for the poor, and banning the current insurance industry practice of denying coverage to people with pre-existing medical conditions. But these small positive steps pale in comparison to the truly noxious things this bill does, and the things it fails to do.
The most outrageous thing the health “reform” bill does is further consolidate the death grip that the insurance industry has over health care access and delivery in America. It does this by mandating that everyone buy health insurance, on pain of being slapped with a heavy fine by the IRS. Since most of the 47 million Americans without health insurance are younger and healthier than average, what this measure does is hand the private insurance industry a huge captive customer population who will be stuck with high-cost, low-benefit insurance that will generate huge profits for the industry. The industry will be further enriched by nearly half a trillion dollars in subsidies needed to help low-income people or small businesses buy their mandated health insurance–subsidies which will end up going directly to insurance companies, which will be offering in return wretched bare-bones plans that will only cover some 60% of actual medical costs.
Supporters say that mandating that everyone have health insurance is akin to mandating that every driver of a car buy liability insurance, but there actually is a huge difference. Driving is a matter of choice. If a person doesn’t want to buy car insurance, she or he can decide not to own a car. That reality at least forces auto insurers to compete in offering low-cost minimal insurance plans. Nobody can decide not to buy health insurance under this plan though. It is a historic first: a law requiring American citizens to buy a service from a private company.
Adding insult to injury, the bill does almost nothing to limit costs. This is why doctors, hospital and drug companies and the insurance industry, all of which spend millions of dollars lobbying for this law, love it (health insurance company shares jumped on word of Senate passage). Indeed, the government’s own Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), predicts that the law, if enacted, will cause US health care costs–already the highest in the world on a per capita basis and as a share of GDP by a factor of almost two–to rise faster than ever. Furthermore, to keep the projected costs of this bill at an alleged $871 billion over ten years, a huge amount of money is stolen from important existing programs, including $43 billion from payments to safety-net hospitals (mostly public institutions in urban centers which serve poor populations), and from cuts in Medicare funding that could for the first time lead significant numbers of physicians to stop seeing elderly patients on Medicare.
http://www.counterpunch.com/lindorff12292009.html
Hey, tbsa, I’ll keep your family and kiddo in my thoughts too. Best luck to you all.
:)
I know that many have a dim view of this legislation.
In my view some of it is legitimate and some is farfetched given our Constitutional system and the current political landscape.
I think the opponents would be better off if they steered away from the sloganeering and hyperbole in their criticisms of Obama and the legislation.
Why on earth do you say that Obama is to the left of Bush? I don’t mean what Obama says. I mean what Obama does.
Obama is expanding the war on a verb (though they call it something else), expanding murder from the sky by drone, lining Wall Street’s pockets, expanding state secrets and seeking to keep courts from adjudicating anything at all that the admin says falls under that rubric, is seeking to codify indefinite detention without charge or trial, is keeping “black” prisons in place, is expanding the military budget, is looking to cut 500 billion dollars from Medicare, is looking for a commission to gut Social Security (which will be his next “progressive” task), is ignoring homeowners, is doing squat about jobs and…well…shall I go on?
This isn’t to the left of Bush. This is Bush’s third term.
Flame you? No. But when you say that Obama works this way and has used it to actually “get stuff done” for his entire legislative life, I say that is mere fantasy. Obama, so far as I can tell, never really got much of anything done anywhere at any level in his entire career. The only thing he seemed to do was advance himself. What exactly, other than getting elected, do you think Obama ever did that was of any substance?
“His desire to do good is about on par with his publicly stated desire to pass the public option; i.e., it’s nice to have, but if he has to pay for it, well, it’s expendable and he’ll make do with whatever he can get.”
Pay for it? He got paid to sell out … he got campaign financing dollars coming his way over this and who knows what to follow once he leaves office. Somehow I can foresee a big 6-digit payday coming to him once he leaves office for blathering to some health insurance consortium about the success of the marriage between the private health insurance industry and the federal government … working hand and hand …
Anyway, I was being too critical of you in my post … I was more venting about the obamapologencia in general and their fervent belief in what a great guy he is. I don’t think that he has any intention of doing what is right for this country if it conflicts with his own personal interests, which appears to be the stance you are taking now … which is different than your stance in the original essay.
Anyway, maybe I misunderstood your words or you mis-wrote them … I’ve done that. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
Z
“What exactly, other than getting elected, do you think Obama ever did that was of any substance?”
I have never heard any testimonials about the wonderful work that obama did as a community organizer either … that was conspicuously missing from his campaign. But maybe I missed it … I could have because I pretty much gave up on him when he sold out on the FISA bill. He showed himself to have zero principles in that Constitutional matter … he sold out on that and he has been a servant to power every day that he’s been in the Oval Office. And well before it I’d imagine for him to make it into power as quickly as he did while ground-breaking through some racial resistance along the way. You don’t make it that far unless you play the game, and play it well … for yourself.
Basically, he’s the head pr man of the establishment. That’s who he serves …
Z
place is getting lively, good!
“No, I was talking about all the progressive organizations that support Obama unquestioningly no matter how big a shit sandwich he tries to feed to his base.”
Yeah, you are right. I misread what you wrote on that.
Z
His whole career has been seeking office, and using political connections of one kind or another as a stepping stone.. He never stayed in the legislature or in public office long enough to contribute anything of note legislatively. He had his eye on the presidency from day one.. hence his lining himself up to give that speech at the Dem convention way back.. When one of his stepping stone contacts, got in his way, like Rev. Wright, he threw him under a bus. He used people as long as they served his interests, and then conveniently discarded them. He has a public speaking talent, but not much else. There is NO substance.. no real commitment to anything but himself.
You got two out of three right (although his timidity on gay rights would never qualify him as a champion of gay rights).
He is a full-fledged neoliberal corporatist. Evidence: Emmanuel, Geithner, Summers, collusion with Pharma, with the Insurance companies, with the Banksters, with the military-industrial oil complex (Afghanistan).
It’s not simple, weak “path of least resistance”; he’s a member of the plutocratic corporatist status quo who knows how to (intelligently and eloquently) mouth semi-progressive memes in his speeches.
Wake up!
Right-on!
(and neoliberal Bill Clinton’s third term,
who passed the undoing of Glass-Steagall and deregulation of derivatives).
No, it’s the same stance. I said that he wants to do the right thing as long as he doesn’t pay a political price for it (but of course there always is, at least when you measure political price in terms of corporatist/religious right backlash). I might be wrong (and often fear that I am), but that’s my stance.
….Where Bush made political decisions based on his distorted sense of Right vs. Wrong and Good vs. Evil, Obama makes them based on Easy vs. Hard. Dubya’s moral compass pointed due South, while Obama’s points to the path of least resistance………….
…by choice or ability they are both men incapable of leading our Country in any meaningful way, in fact they, along with their Congressional Party Bosses, instead have done great harm…………
…..next step IMHO is to take the fight to the Political Party’s front door, is it not they and their corrupted beauty contest that puts out these Party Puppets and drives away the talent we need
“Plookin’ too hard on meeeeeeee…””
Obama is no Joe, Obama is Harry and the progressive electorate is Rhonda.
“…it probably wasn’t REAL PISS…only ‘theater piss’…”
“‘eyes on the prize’ on core issues and work locally to get things done. It’s been truly exciting to be a part of, and it’s happening at levels I’ve never experienced in my years of working on political campaigns.”
Provide specifics if you expect to be believed. OFA could be nothing more than an adjunct fund-raising vehicle to supplement and cloak all the corporate donors for all anybody knows.
With regard to the economic problem, one must remember that it is rather difficult to power-pack a host of new regulations_ most significant of which, are margin requirements_ and try to ease the credit crunch, AT same TIME… a credit crunch that impedes the development of business_ to wit, JOBS. So, we might want to give the President a little more time and leeway, there.
As for Health Care Reform, not taking it to “Reconciliation,” from the start, is sinful, if not willful abandonment of purpose…
OUR purpose!