Marian, Welcome to the Lake.

Lisa, Thank you for Hosting this Book Salon.

Hello Marian and readers, thanks for joining us!

Hello, I’m glad to be here.

Marian, graphoanalysis is a fascinating subject–how did you discover it and get involved?

As someone whose mother has a perfect Palmer hand, but whose own handwriting is a messy mix of printed and cursive, welcome to the Lake, Marian!

Great topic!

That’s right, Palmer cursive is pretty much what we are trained in during school isn’t it? Is that the one wiht the weird Q that looks like a 2?

Good afternoon and welcome to FDL this afternoon Marian.

I have not had a chance to read your book but do have a question. What made you choose the women you did for inclusion? Any special considerations or were these women whose handwriting was accessible through museums and such?

It was through Arthur Godfrey’s daughter-in-law. She was a graphoanalyst and introduced it to me.
I was fascinated in it because I felt I could understand my 7 children. I had my own clinic running around the kitchen.

Spencer came first and his handwriting that he taught was very ornate. The one taught in most schools in the last half century is the Palmer method.

Seven children oh my! How does graphoanalysis “work”?

Is it based on case stdies–”oh all these people have this trait in their handwriting and their personalilties also have a particular trait?”

I was also curious about one of Lisa’s questions.

Can our casual, hurried handwriting, like when note-taking, reveal the same traits as our more formal notes to friends and family?

The criteria that I used was, they had to have done something worthwhile in their lives, they had to be known, they were historical, they came from different areas of expertise, and we had to have their handwriting.

Does the different style sof handwriting affect graphanalysis?

My mom too. My handwriting is OK but not great.

So are there any hereditary elements to handwriting? Anything that can be seen from generation to generation?

A research department was organized using empirical data and training analysts in a precise method in an organization called IGAS, International Graphoanalysis Society.

Both casual and hurried are significant. Handwriting does not change as much as you think. A trained graphoanalyst can note similarities and differences.

I have seen similarities in the different generations of handwriting. It isn’t always the case, but often it is. It’s almost like when you have certain traits like other family members, walk, talk.

Interesting! I try to print my short notes ot people since my handwriting is a bit challenging…and i notice gets sloppier if I user certain pens, like medium bal points vs fine gel points…

By blue book essays has prompted professors to ask that I write much more slowly and carefully!

Ever notice how women’s handwriting is so different from men’s? It’s almost always easy to tell the sex of the writer. Women’s writing looks much rounder.

Handwriting is brainwriting. You cannot determine the sex or the age of the writer.

Can you comment on the elements of a signature and those of several pages of text?

How interesting. Are there any handwriting traits that get passed down more than others? I think the only similarity in writing style that I have with my mother is the pressure we use. But I write wide, loopy letters more like my father.

Does the neatness or lack of mean anything in particular?

My Grandfather was a Palmer method man and his writing was beyond lovely, as were his manners and ability to dance (a strong lead). I’m still smarting from being absent on the day “G” was taught.
Marian, I’m facinated by the topic and look forward to reading it. Personally, I love a medium point gel roller with real oily ink – always in blue.
My most treasured possession is my grandmother’s hand written recipes. While she wasn’t a Palmer writer, and not important by society’s standard, she is my link to my mother’s past, and when rattling the pots and pans, I feel a closeness that survives her passing.

Writing that goes consistently down to the baseline in a rhythmical way determines someone who has methodical thinking and always someone you can rely on. In my book, Marian Anderson is a classic example of someone who has rhythm in her handwriting.

That connection to your family is lovely. How important it is to keep those special notes of handwriting, it ties us to our past.

The most meaningful momento from my father is a 4 word handwritten note.

I remember weeping because i couldnt figure out how to “hang” a lower case e off the o or b.

My Irish friends all have really lovely handwriting, veyr different form US style, but I suppose the same traits and signifiers cross culture training–marian you analyzed Marie Curies wriitng in Polish, Maria Montessori’s in Italian an Helen Keller’s… (yes Helen Keller used handwriting, despite being blind!)

Regarding neatness of handwriting or lack there of. Someone who is extremely precise in their handwriting will often have the personality traits of that era. But still you could see a large K which is defiance, or a long strong T crossing which is enthusiasm.

Keep it, treasure it. Keep it because special letters, notes are being written less and less because of the computer.

Fascinating. I think both my daughter and I will enjoy this book.

Helen Keller used a template which was like a washboard to held guide her writing the letters, using her finger to space between letters. Even with this method, strong personality traits were revealed. At the Massachusetts Institute for the Blind (Perkins Institute) we were fortunate enough to get the handwriting of another deaf blind person’s handwriting to compare with Helen’s using the same method. And again, the traits varied like they would with anyone’s handwriting.

This is a great book for women–and young girls! Very inspirational, and I love Marian’s writing style. And she includes a wonderful variety of women.

You will enjoy this book. We find that women and young girls love the book, especially the dictionary in the back. Young girls like to check out the handwriting traits of their friends.

I have letters from my late mother that I treasure.
A friend tells me that my handwriting has changed, it’s bigger and rounder. I also am bigger and rounder…but I think it’s due to some arthritis in fingers more than anything.

Hi Marian! I bought your book and thoroughly enjoyed it. I bought it through amazon, but I would like to get an autographed copy for a friend. How do I get that?

How is graphoanalysis used today?

Marian, are there any women you would have liked to have some handwriting to analyze but were not able to find?

Writing does change over the years, but certain traits remain the same. Something traumatic in a person’s life can change certain things in the handwriting. When I was doing a court case of this woman, we had her handwriting when she first came to this country as a young girl up until she was 80 years old. When compared, certain traits stayed the same.

What did Catherine the Great’s handwriting reveal?

In studying, analyzing and writing about your subjects, was there anything about one of them that you found particularly interesting/unexpected? — something that really surprised you?

Perfect. I would love to provide you with a personalized copy. Go to my website, http://www.twentyremarkablewomen.com. Order through PayPal. I look forward to hearing from you.

It’s a wonderful tool in helping you understand human nature. It is used in police work, forgeries, questioned documents and character analysis. You need more training to be a questioned document examiner.

In writing the book I wanted a universal appeal, women from all over the world, Evita from Argentina, Golda from Israel, Montessori from Italy/Belgium, and there were many I was unable to get. For instance, I couldn’t find the handwriting of any women from the Orient.

She had a revolving bedroom door! She was extremely intelligent and had a great desire to acquire, for example the Crimea.

My daughter told me that her 9-year-old isn’t even being taught cursive, except perhaps a brief introduction. No stress on “penmanship” or rote practice of the cursive letters. Apparently it is dying out, or soon will if it isn’t taught or emphasized.

I understand some private schools still teach it.

I am sure for wills and other matters signatures have a lot of bearing!

I admit to having gotten rather good in high school at my mom’s signature in order to getout of physical education and to have my grades signed off on!

My formerly decent penmanship has deteriorated with age and arthritic hands. I wonder how much those things affect your analysis of an individual’s handwriting?

Thank you for the information on receiving an autographed copy of your book. I just checked out your website and watched your video on Amelia Earhardt! So incredibly impressive! Are you going to make more videos on the other women in your book?

Great question! One of the challenging things in writing the book was to get the handwriting and get permission to use the handwriting. It led me down some interesting paths.

You also mention a tendency for self deception with Catherine and other women, seen in the loops of the o and a…something I will be looking for in friends’ handwriting now.

How does handwriting reveal the revolving bedroom door?

Do tell us more! How d you go about locating handwriting samples? And do you think you wil do a companion volumn of men’s writing?

Can you share a little about that?

Maria Montessori, one of the women in your book, was a famous educator, stressed the fact how important handwriting was and to teach it to children because the hand-eye-brain connection.

I have not read your book, but I’m curious to know if you have looked at the Frida Kahlo notes that were published recently?

Referring back to my comment above about the woman whose handwriting we saw from a young age up to 80 years old. Most of the traits remained the same, but it deteriorated a bit because of her age and her blindness.

Handwriting doesn’t. Historically it is well known that she was promiscuous. She didn’t know the father of her son. What her handwriting did reveal is that she was highly emotionally responsiveness showing in the slant and the large hooks (beginning and ending) shows wanting to acquire and keep things.

They practice printing, just not cursive, I guess. Seems strange to me, but then, the way kids are taught to read is strange, too. Or maybe I’m just getting old and grumpy.

My husband wants me to do 20 Remarkable Men! But it’s not going to happen. Regarding acquiring signature, it takes a lot of research, time, patience. They are all old books.

Through an author of Chicken Soup for the Soul, I found that there was a man incarcerated in a penitentiary in Kentucky who communicated with Mother Teresa. We excitedly contacted him to find that she typewrote all the letters to him. We were fortunate however to use in the book and have as a specimen the actual writing of Mother Teresa, which is like a relic. We got this from a dear friend who called in the middle of the night from India, saying she had just spent some time with Mother Teresa and got her handwriting. It was a small sample but it worked.

Nowadays kids dont even seem to write by hand except maybe to take notes in class. And In some college classes I;ve taken everyone is typing away (though I can barely read my typing here–I have to go clean it up, with handwriting I have lots more precision).

I wonder if with modern devices, handwriting will become a quaint relic, relegated to leaving notes on badly parked cars?

I have seen her writing and also Diego Rivera.

Fascinating! Thanks for sharing that story.

Unfortunately, this is likely true. So do keep any notes you get for posterity.

What does it say about her? Have you seen copies of the disputed notes?

Where /How did you formally study handwriting?

I have just seen it, but I have not had the opportunity to analyze it. It was very heavy, meaning depth of feeling and also it looked like it was difficult for her to write.

It started with a correspondence course 40 years ago, and I finished as a Master Graphoanalyst. Over the many years I have taught and continued my studies, took classes from Dr. Erika Karohs and other prominent handwriting experts. I am also a member of the World Association of Document Examiners and through it became Court Qualified.

Although Oprah isn’t in the book, I just posted a video on her interesting handwriting. It was posted on YouTube last night. I am currently working on videos talking about the handwriting of Mother Teresa and Joan of Arc. The other women in the book will follow.

we were thrilled to find your Oprah video and have posted it to this page. I learned a lot from watching it which added ot the knowledge you share in your book.

When I click on the video I get, “This video has been removed by the user.” I’ve tried 3 or 4 times after a hard refresh and still no go.

I’ve tried to play the video posted above and it says that the video has been removed. Anyone else have a problem playing it?

Thanks for letting us know..I watched it earlier to day..we’ll get that figured out…

In the meantime Marian, could you tell us a bit about Oprah from her handwriting…

Go to my blog the video is there too. http://www.marian-writewords.blogspot.com.

me also… sniff..
OH and many thanks Marian for being here and talking with us pups..
thanks again..

You can find the Oprah video here

Our linky must have gotten scrambled….

Far forward slant which is highly emotional with depth which gives her the passion. Her “A” is open at the top which means she likes to talk. The big thing is the hugh “O” which is the communication letter. This has to do with words. This is her period!

I get the same result on Marian’s blog. And I’ve cleared the cache on the browser and quit and relaunched it. SIGH.

This one works!!

How strange. I just played it on my blog too. Sorry, I can’t answer, it sounds like a technical thing and that’s not my strength. Perhaps try again later.
If you go to youtube, you can type in “Oprah’s Handwriting” and search, it should find it. You can type in “Amelia’s Handwriting” and see that video.

Try this link – http://www.marian-writewords.blogspot.com/

Videos – http://www.youtube.com/user/marianbrannan

I had a friend in high school who not only changed her name (at age 14) but spent hours trying ot change her handwriting….she developed the “notice me” traits on purpose!

That’s very often the case with teenagers. Often times you will find the circle for the “i” and “j” dots which is an idiosyncrasy, meaning they like to be different.

This is an interesting trait. Walt Disney also circled his “i”‘s. And was he different???

The one at #79 worked fine. The one at her blog did not. Weird gremlins in the toobz.

I remember in about Jr. High “teaching” myself to write with a back slant – fortunately it was temporary. I have a friend from those days (in her 60s now) who always used something as a straight edge and wrote along it to keep her writing perfectly lined up. I noticed in her Christmas card this year that she is still doing that all these many years later.

and engineers always seem to have such neat writing, with similarities–must be those traits that draw them to the field –as I have seem the same style of letters in artists, detail oriented, precise…

Wanting to be that “perfect” or “precise” really says something. One of the difficulties with this particular issue is the bottom lowercase loops have to be added afterwards and you lose the natural flow of writing.

Can a person’s handwriting reveal mental illness?

I think they take a class for that.

And doctors…famously incapable of writing anything decipherable.

It’s true. The neatness is that they must be understood and so they force themselves to write neatly. But the similarities end there.

I’m not a doctor I’m a handwriting analyst and I don’t deal in diagnosing.

Doctors ont he other hand….

I have two close male friends who both went to the same elementary, jr and high school and both are musicians for recreations, and very close friends with each other–their handwriting looks very much alike–both have advanced degrees , so lots of note taking involved, but they have such clear and yet “arty” hands with very similarities, so much so that a note from one looks at first like a note from the other…very odd!

People who have to sign their name often, like doctors, sometimes tend to scrawl, however, you will always see certain traits will be there, even though the scrawl is there. Like analytical thinking, etc.

LOL! But I love your analyzing!

Not from the Orient, but shaped it pretty dramatically: Gertrude Bell, mother of modern (pre-W) Iraq.

The method you are taught is the basis and then you work from there, they are bound to be similar. I would need to see the handwriting to comment, a venture to say there would be some differences.

I don’t know Gertrude Bell, but I’ll look into it. I do know that Pearl S. Buck was one of the women I was interested in having in the book but somehow it didn’t happen. She was raised in China and had a strong Asian influence because of her nanny.

Heehee. Considering that we have an expert here, I’m rather glad to be typing.

As we come to the end of this Book Salon,

Marian, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon with us discussing your book and handwriting.

Lisa, Thank you very much for Hosting this great Book Salon.

Everyone, if you haven’t bought Marian’s book yet, here is a link.

Thanks all.

I would like to know more about Gertrude Bell.

More about Marian and her work can be found at her website http://twentyremarkablewomen.com/

Marian, do you have new book coming out?

And will you be doing a book tour for this one?

Thank you very much for all of your comments and it was a pleasure responding. I hope I answered them appropriately. If you have any more comments or questions, feel free to contact me through my website or blog.
Happy New Year.

Thank you Marian for being my first Book Salon guest, and bev for having me, and pups for being here!

No, but I continue to blog regularly with fun and interesting information.

Thank you Lisa for being my host.

She was the brains behind the brawn of Lawrence of Arabia, the foremost geographer, anthropologist and archeologist of the ME in her day. Worked for the British secret service during WWI. The most famous woman you never heard of. I just read a biography of her. Drew most of the borders of current geographic Iraq, and made sure the Hasemites got the throne.

Thanks Marian!

Thanks

Thank you! Marian.

and Bev, as always.

oops
and Lisa!

what Bev said… thank you for a great book salon…very interesting and informative.. (:>))