When it comes to believing what the Prez says about healthcare (or anything else for that matter),I am reminded of the Bush, Cheney, Rove playbook. If you tell a lie often enough and loud enough, then it becomes true.

How many times over the last year did the Late Late Nite, Early morning crowd help Obama by debunking whatever the latest GOP lie of the day was?
Us the other Lefty blogs we had Obama’s back and now he tries to sell us this healthcare bill as a ” Win “.
How many blog posts, links comments did we all do to help Obama get elected?
How many blog posts, links, comments did we do on healthcare?
But Obama could not bother to read up on all the stuff we wrote about how we could save the most money and cover the most people with healthcare?
Nope instead he read the cliff notes version of the healthcare debate written by lobbyists.
I am very disappointed. This healthcare bill is the worse Christmas gift I have ever got.

When the President brags about all the people this bill will help lets all take a minute to think of all the extra people that could have been helped for the same amount of money if drugs in America cost what they do in Canada and Mexico.
If instead of private insurance costs we had National Healthcare costs and more importantly National Health insurance results.
There is a reason why life spans are higher in Europe and infant mortality rates are lower than in America.
Every day we don’t have National Health insurance more Americans die that don’t have to.
Obama and Joe Lieberman celebrating their expected Healthcare win sounds like the cold wind at night rustling past a graveyard.

Merry Christmas Attaturk and pups.

Good morning TCU. I’m with you on alleged reform. It really pisses me off that just about every person involved with HCR does not make a distinction between medical insurance and health care. We don’t need more insurance. We need to see a doctor when necessary. Having insurance is just NOT the same as recieving medical care.

Why does Obama have to be like Bush? Why can’t he just say the insurance companies are broke? Why can’t he just say what do you think should we bail them out or just give them Government jobs in a National Healthcare plan at lower pay of course?
Instead we are all forced to buy health insurance and its sold as healthcare reform? Try another line.

Merry Christmas Old and Slow agreed health insurance is an expensive joke. Its like putting chrome wheels on a station wagon it won’t help the car go faster, it won’t help you pick up women, instead its an unnecessary expense.
And an impossible sell even chrome wheels/the words Healthcare Bill passed can’t sell a station wagon as a babe magnet or sell this bill as a “Win”.

Nobody got every single thing they wanted. Boo hoo. Christmas is ruined. You sound like a bunch of fucking Republicans.

Bush passed No Child Left Behind as an unfunded mandate I believe and the Press thought it was so Great Ted Kennedy helped get it passed. The Press I recall called it a win!
Teaching for the test at the expense of critical thinking, encouraging kids to drop out to raise a schools scores etc today the press does not call it a win.
Obama tried to get a GOPer to be his Ted Kennedy who knows he might have a last minute taker. The Press thinks this is a win same as the Democrats but for how long?
Lets see how long the Dem/Press learning curve is?

The GOP is just pissed Obama passed this bill otherwise they would love it. If I wanted a Healthcare bill like this I’d have voted for Jon McCain.
Obama campaigned on the Public Option that and ending the wars were my 2 big issues Obama has failed.

I can’t wait until next August when I’ll be eager to roll up my sleeves and get to work shoveling this snow.

A merry holiday Attaturk and all FDLers and thank you Attu for your posts.

If the Insurance Protection Act was the “defining moment” of this twit’s administration we know what kind of a dead ass he is. I guess making a bollicks of his promises on FISA, EFCA, NAFTA, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, renditions, lobbyists, transparency and who knows (Hugh?) what else was not enough for him. The good part is that 25% of his tenure has gone so at least it will be over in three more years.

Hail to the thief!

Obama is attempting to lead a nation of jerkoffs so selfish and stupid we put Bush into office — twice. We didn’t elect Obama supreme dictator. It’s been 11 months.

Newt stood against Bush 1 and tried to push him more right. We need someone to stand against Obama now.

Not sure what the hell you’re talking about but don’t care much for your attitude. Thanks for stopping by to piss in the cheerios.

You think Reid is not the strong character you are looking for. Jeeze, the way the toadies were praising him yesterday you’d think that he was Horatius defending the bridge!

PS No /s is big enough.

9/11 gave Bush some help that and the Supreme court. Obama does not have to be a dictator he just tells Joe Lieberman no vote on Israel aid until healthcare passes.
He tells the GOP if we can’t tax the rich to pay for the wars well I can pull the troops out now without Congress’s approval as Commander and Chief.
No more war spending its easier to find money for healthcare. Heck instead of bailing out AIG an insurance company letting them fail would have probably led to the failure of several other insurance companies National Healthcare would be the only way people could get healthcare then.
Instead Obama interfered with the free market failure that is the insurance companies business model.

Reid a strong character I’m glad I don’t have tv heck Joe Lieberman is the real Senate Leader now not Harry. If you want something done in the Senate its Joe you have to talk to.

In the latest edition of Mother Jones there is an interesting piece about how the $14 trillion spent in the “Too Big To Fail” bailout could have been spent on such programs as you suggest. Oh Bummah! has no balls, is a toy for his corporate masters and will be gone in three years. We can only hope that there will be sufficient real progressives in Congress by then to help keep the GOP president in check.

PS no troll feeding allowed on christmas.

I think we can get some real progressives in November.

So you’re saying Obama doesn’t have to be a dictator, he just has to commit political suicide?
Look, I’m not happy at all that this country has a population of ignorant, bellicose motherfuckers large enough to at least partially define our national character, but pretending that their influence is insignificant is fantasy politics.
I’d like to see Cheney, Bush, et alia in prison. I’d like to see a British-style National Health Service. I’d like to see nuclear disarmament and massive investment in green energy. And if America consisted of just me, I’d have all that just like that.

But America is as likely to become a workers’ paradise in the next few years as Saudi Arabia is to become a haven for sex, drugs and rock n roll, and for the same reason — the people who live there are too fucked up to want it.

Oh, and in conclusion… I’m willing to settle for small victories rather than principled defeats.

Yes, I agree and I will be working toward that end. Frankly I don’t think it matters one whit if the Dems lose some Senate seats as they do not seem to know how to work as the majority anyway and as for the House, well there are a number of Blue Dogs that do not vote with the Dems as it is so losing a few seats there is not going to make much difference either.

As I see it the Progressives must get as aggressive as the RWNFs have been in their “outreach” (somewhat like Jane, that wonderful women, has been doing lately). It is time for some herbal tea parties.

The President has no option when it comes to propping up the “to big to fail”. What nobody wants to talk about is the dollar value of all the transactions made based on worthless paper and the percentage of the Gross Domestic Product that represents. For the last decade.

To allow a Goldman or Citi to fail would be to admit that our entire economy is based on vapor and is worthless. We are not capable of making good on 10 trillion dollars of national debt. Hell, we’re not even capable of making good on 1/1000 of that.

Rampant greed has truly destroyed us. The President, I’m afraid, can’t fix it no matter what he does.

Anybody here?

I’m a nobody does that count?

we’re with Norquist now. We ARE REpublicans. Didn’t you hear?

you’re somebody. Merry xmas.

what ya doing here??

name some small victories since 1/20/09.

Good morning BFL. Merry Christmas.

Thanks. You, too. I’m the only one up in my house. surprising.

Rampant greed has truly destroyed us. The President, I’m afraid, can’t fix it no matter what he does.

National health care, gainful employment and a sensible housing plan will solve 90% of the problem. Assume, for a moment that instead of giving zillions of dollars to the like of Goldman Sachs that the gummint had subsidized mortgages to keep the cash flowing and at the same time helped companies subsidize wages again to keep the cash flowing there would be less chance of the “too big to fail” failures.

Again, the latest edition of Mother Jones has an interesting piece on how the $14 trillion in bailout monies could have been spent to keep the economy moving and people employed.

Keep in mind a successful economy depends on cash circulation not cash accumulation.

what ya doing here??

Getting pissy on FDL between bouts of cat feeding and present wrapping. A great holiday to yourself.

Passage of the (admittedly flawed) economic stimulus package.
Progress toward closing Guantanamo and freeing all unjustly imprisoned inmates.
Rebuilding of our national reputation, shredded by the previous administration.
Progress on international cooperation on greenhouse gases reduction.
Oh yeah, and a health care reform bill, which is how this thread started.

Same here. And Santa hasn’t been by yet.

Passage of the (admittedly flawed) economic stimulus package.
Not so flawed for the well to do. For the rest of us not so much!

Progress toward closing Guantanamo and freeing all unjustly imprisoned inmates.
And a promise to have it closed by now

Rebuilding of our national reputation, shredded by the previous administration.
Only in the American eyes, the rest of the sane world still thinks the idiot is a war monger despite his Norwegian silver.

Progress on international cooperation on greenhouse gases reduction.
You jest of course. Copenhagen was a great success to you?

Oh yeah, and a health care reform bill, which is how this thread started.
Good for InsurPharma not so good for the people who need health care not insurance care.

The health care reform blows.

Merry Christmas.

Beerfart

still wrapping?

i have a bike to put together soon.

know what ya mean, i didn’t intend on being pissy. oh well.

Keep in mind a successful economy depends on cash circulation not cash accumulation.

When there is no “generator” of cash anymore, like making shit we sell to other countries, all we are left with is an ever increasing number of service providers chasing an ever dwindle supply of cash down the swirling drain to hell. And it looks to me like we have arrived already.

Not trying to argue with you or make you wrong. Just sayin.

have a great day, everyone.

i ahve to go, put the stuff under the tree, make breakfast, etc. everybody will be up soon.

Right back at you, BFL.

Off to make with more preperations for the day myself. Have a wonderfull day all.

I wonder which right winger Jane Lieberman woke up Christmas morning under the tree with? Huh. I wonder.

If the treasury doesn’t keep sucking up the bottomless toxic stuff at fannie/freddie, the big creditor banks are still vulnerable to a chain reaction default. But as the treasury keeps running up the national debt with more bailouts and growing deficits, the fed will not be able to keep borrowing at these low rates. And if the fed keeps printing money as they have been, the dollar will eventually collapse.

A strong recovery especially in jobs will help some. But ultimately, the admin will probably have to make a choice between solvent banks (re housing) and solvent entitlement trust funds (re retirement). Bernanke appears more concerned with the banks for now which means social security will become a target, soon. Something to look for as the wimpy financial regulatory “reform” bill makes its way through the senate.

Merry christmas.

I defined Copenhagen as a small victory, so I don’t understand why you’re asking if I think it was a great success.

No offense, but you seem to be not too bright, regurgitating the right-wing talking points as they’ve been re-packaged (new! improved!) for the whiny-ass contingent of the left.

I’m guessing Erick Erickson.

i didn’t intend on being pissy

Just me being pissy.

Lookout the Oh Bummah! apologists are up and about making damn fool comments.

I guess I’ll ignore the personal attacks, take them from the sewer from whence they came.

Peace to all, I’m sitting here in solitude before the hubbub starts. I’ve been without health care for 10 years and I ain’t afraid of dying after 60 Christmas’. The snows pretty in the yard,the trees aglow and my daughter is spending a week with us. The health care debate will rage in the new year so ,give it a break for a few days and recharge. Every year is a battle in a long war but if your alive you’re golden on this big blue ball.
Good cheer to all this weekend and don’t be a health care wet blanket to the weekend get togethers.
Peace will come, for now enjoy the loved ones who bless us all.

That’s a perfect moniker for you. Welcome to the Lake. You’re a little late, you should have been here during the primaries when the Lake was overrun by ObamaPods.

Or it could have been Fred Phelps too. Not sure where the cutoff line is…right wing bloggers, Evangelicals, white supremacists…but it’s making me nervous! LOL

love the photo. photo snark was what me hooked on FDL in the early days….
best wishes and open hearts to all~~

really, all.

Where was Jane Lieberman when George Bush took over Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac last year? I don’t remember her sleeping with any right wingers or dating Grover Norquist to go after the Regime to take them down! Oh wait. Joe Lieberman didn’t bat an eye either. Okay, nevermind.

“We hope to have a whole bunch of folks over here in the West Wing, and I’ll be rolling up my sleeves and spending some time before the full Congress even gets into session,”

He’s going to roll up his sleeves and spend some time. Let’s see first you roll up your sleeves and then…. hmmm.. what comes next?

In the stirring prose of a famous president. “Fool me once, shame on….er…uh…can’t get fooled again.”

Why are you trying to tie Jane to Obama’s favorite senator?

These demorats realize that real progressives will have no where else to go in november 2010,but there not figuring that the electorate that put them in power 2006 and 2008 will stay home during these next elections.

Because she’s become what she despises. You hadn’t noticed?

Because she’s become what she despises

It is you and your ilk that are despised. Blind Oh Bummah! appologists, see no reason, hear no reason, speak no reason

I’m remembering Larry whatsisname and his NoQuarter blog. Got a bug up his ass and morphed into an Obama-hatin’, conspiracy-floggin’ crackpot. Starting to see the same weird, obtuse stridency here on FDL.

I’d happily see every American born with guaranteed health-care, a gay marriage license, and a coupon for 10% off on an abortion — but all this Oh Bumma, let’s-give-the-legislative-branch-back-to-the-Republicans-for-spite bullshit is too fucking crazy for me.

Good morning and Merry Christmas, pups. Roger Cohen is off today. Bobo, in “The Sidney Awards,” tells us to turn off a “Wonderful Life” and read the best essays of the year. Well, Bobo, I never turn on “A Wonderful Life,” but I may read one or two of the essays. (For the definitive take on “It’s A Wonderful Life” here’s Scott at World-O-Crap.) Prof. Krugman, in “Tidings of Comfort,” says imperfect as it is, the health care reform bill, which will likely become a law, will make America a better country.

Here they are.

The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready. Since it’s Christmas and when I was a little one it wasn’t Christmas without grits herewith is a full-blown breakfast: eggs the way you like them, sausage, ham or bacon, grits and biscuits or toast. Attaturk, it would be a kludge, but if you have Kindle for PC you could probably cut and paste your book… Have a great holiday, pups. I’m heading out to give the birds their Christmas seeds.

You Hillarybots are the pathetic ones! Oh wait. You hadn’t noticed that either because you’re all too busy sleeping with the enemy to take Obama down on behalf of Hillary! What Would Hillary Do? Sleep with Karl Rove? Doubt it.

Next year you watch….FDL will be backing the right wing fringe next year! Nice huh?

Wow, they made a movie out of “Wonderful Life”? Was it filmed on location?

let’s-give-the-legislative-branch-back-to-the-Republicans-for-spite

For me the important distinction is Liberal vs. Conservative, not Democrat vs. Republican. I think recent events illustrate very clearly that whether a legislator has a D or R after his/her name is not always meaningful. I think conservative Democrats are in a position to do more damage to the left than Republicans.

Just weird and depressing. Perhaps we’re not a nation of right-wing fools, but merely a nation of fools.

Who are the liberal Republicans? Nelson Rockefeller’s been dead for 30 years. True, there are conservative Democrats, and I’d like to see them replaced by liberals, but name me a Democrat who indulges in the hatemongering, fearmongering and Big Lies that are now SOP for the Republican party. I wouldn’t want to see Ben Nelson run [edited by mod] unless he was kissing Jim Inhofe at the time.

[Modnote: please no violent imagery, even imaginary]

Ah, Bobo at his “best.” I guess he was in too much of a rush to use the full title, or his apostrophe key is stuck or something… We shouldn’t be surprised, though — this is the man who thinks Applebee’s has salad bars.

An extra Merry Christmas to All The Mods! You people (ha) have really had your work cut out for you recently.
Appreciate all you do for the Lake.

Part of Oh Bummah’s problem is that he is surrounded by clintonites, or hadn’t you noticed. Me, I am a genuine, European born, Socialist. There is nobody, and I mean nobody that is in politics in America that is “left” enough for me.

Oh Bummah! and the clintons are cut from the same cloth, DLC burlap.

I remember years ago hearing some German students talking in a restaurant in Boulder. They had heard people complaining about “leftist shit” on the campus, and one of them said “You haven’t seen leftist shit”. They had a good laugh over it.

How Obama Triangulation works..

Side One..Tell ‘em what they wanna hear
I’ve been in favor of the public option. I think the more choice, the more competition we have, the better.

Side Two..Inject some plausible alternative a.k.a. The Setup
On the other hand, I think that the exchange itself, the system that we’re setting up that forces insurance companies to essentially bid for three million or four million or five million people’s business, that in and of itself is going to have a disciplining effect.

Side Three..Feign commiseration that Side One is not really viable so just be happy and listen to my brilliant rhetoric. (Above all don’t talk back as any disagreement at this point is not civil you DFH.
Would I like one of those options to be the public option? Yes. Do I think that it makes sense, as some have argued, that, without the public option, we dump all these other extraordinary reforms and we say to the 30 million people who don’t have coverage, “You know, sorry. We didn’t get exactly what we wanted”? I don’t think that makes sense.

Since it’s Christmas perhaps a passage from the Bible is appropriate. Here is 1 Corinthians xv. 33:

“The Socialistic State is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else.”

Merry Christmas…..Ho..Ho..Ho!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yup.

“You Lie!”

I’m going to enjoy voting against the smug little prick.

Merry Christmas, sellout!