Fannie, Freddie Executives Get Big Payday

So Fannie and Freddie are getting advance pay-offs to let Rahm do his money laundering for TARP?

Tell the freepers, and the batshit reps in congress. The dems will just mumble. Can I do anything about this? I want to. Tell Karl Denninger, he’ll go off, there’s a forum there too.

http://market-ticker.org/

Tell Tyler

http://www.zerohedge.com

Progressive votes count for something and this should be organized and brought to bear against these thieves. I’m keeping score and waiting for my turn to vote. Thanks for keeping me informed of the things I believe in Jane.

Who’s on the board, or governing body, that approves these compensation packages?

That’s a good place to start with the sunlight and pressure.

Y’know, if you have to take “$100 billion” in “prop up” money, wasting it on these fools is unseemly. And if there’s some “but we need to pay this to retain their services,” well

a) “services”????? Their performance to date = services?
b) I’m sure Elizabeth Warren could do BOTH their jobs for less;
c) If not, there are many others available.

This is criminal. Thanks for bringing it to our attention, Jane, and nice “set up” on this whole Fannie/Freddie oversight subject.

And which Congressional committee(s) have oversight & budget powers? Where are the “deficit hawks” now that we need them?

NO, no it isn’t fine.

Really, was it too much to expect our new President to come in and clean up the trash from the preceding administration(s)? No, no it was not. Color me disgusted.

PIGS AT THE TROUGH
when the average American,hurting so badly cant get mortgage $$$$$$$$$

me too………blech…Happy Holiday to you however

bracing for another blizzard
SEE YALL LATER

Happy Holidaze

I see the Hamsher hatefest continues at little orange ina post by Jed Lewison.( I refuse to link)

I like how you are shaking the tree, Jane. Give em hell.

Oink oink oink!! gimme more more slurp slurp…

Jane a minor grammar suggestion. You say:

Fannie and Freddie are places that politicians of both parties put their friends and gave them a lot of money when they aren’t in office, just like Rahm Emanuel did from 2000-2001.

This makes it sounds like Rahm whas one of the ones who did the “putting,” when I thought it was Clinton who “put” him there.

Thus I’d say “just like they did for Rahm Emanuel from 2000- 2001,” to make it clear that he was one of the beneficiaries of this greed & fraud.

This is so minor that it’s perhaps not worth raising, but just wanted you to know.

Yves, too.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/

The anger and vitriol directed at Jane is astonishing.

Grover Norquist is corrupt, that’s true. However, Norquist’s history does nothing to excuse the theft being carried out by the present administration.

Rahm has to go.

Of course, if it’s just corrupt when Republicans do it, but fine if it’s your BFF, no worries.
Jane, you’ve taken a great deal of abuse from some heretofore unlikely circles but I completely support your efforts here. It’s disgraceful, utterly so, to see so many toss aside what are presumably their political, social and moral values (nevermind rational consistency) just because of that letter D that appears next to the name.

Thanks! Jane

This is more information to use against these sorry Dems in congress.

Issue like this prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the USA GOVT IS BROKEN BADLY!

How long did it take for ROME to fall? With these nuts in charge we may break the record for quickest EMPIRE FALL EVER.

I don’t like the fracture between FDL and Kos–it weakens us and throws into doubt their joint plans to primary rotten Dems. Not sure who’s right, but do like the idea of keeping a close eye on all leaders. Innocent until proven guilty–no proof without an investigation, however.

But Jane, according to the front page of the DailyKos:

3. Finally, and arguably most importantly, this smells an awful lot like a Ken Starr-style witch hunt all over again — except even more divorced from reality. The key point here is that an investigation of the sort Hamsher and Norquist want would be a massive burden on a White House that is already struggling with enormous problems with no end in sight. Does anybody think that tying the administration up in knots with a politically-motivated investigation will help get a public option enacted or pass immigration reform? Will it help strengthen the economy or move us towards alternate energy?

(emphasis mine)

See Barry doesn’t have time to investigate corruption of his own administration. Much, much too busy.

From crashing the gate to guarding the gate in three (or so) easy steps.

Keep fighting Jane. But you don’t need me to say that do you?

Of course, if it’s just corrupt when Republicans do it, but fine if it’s your BFF, no worries.

I think you meant to write… Of course, it’s corrupt when Republicans do it, but fine…

Jane, take a break. Really.

You’re going on Fox and Friends, you’re bonding with Grover and your blogger, Sonenstein, is attacking Bernie Sanders and lying about this good Senator and better person.

Moreover, your readers are foaming at the mouth. They’re spewing hatred and epithets, and there’s even a blatantly homophobic remark in support of attacking Bernie, which makes you look even worse.

We know you hate Rahm and Joe. But the anger here is becoming unhinged.

Anyone can see it in the sloppy work.

Take a break before one takes you.

I’d like to add one other observation:

This has been a hard and discouraging time, a slow motion experience of being run over by that bus we’ve been thrown under, and then having it back up and run over us again and again.

Your raising of the Fannie/Freddie issue — while not dropping the health care one — has brought energy and proof that progressives can continue to be active, at a time when many of us were feeling mighty down.

Thank you for this holiday gift.

Have a wonderful end of 2009 everyone. Be prepared to report back to work on the 2nd.

Now off to fight what may end up being 2 feet of snow.

and to you sadly, and all the pups.

on the frontpage no less. Kos is ultimately a partisan operative and those people can always be counted on to toe the party line.

given the crash of the progressive dems, who voted for the bill, I don’t think anyone thinks electing more will make a difference.

May I suggest to you that the hatred was brought here by the Kos people? When we disagree with Jane we don’t foam at the mouth. Why don’t you stay with Kos since that seems to really excite you?

time for Jane and Orville to send a letter off to AG Holder calling for investigation of Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner and Lewis A. Sachs, who this year became a special counselor to Geithner.

Gretchen Morgenson and Louise Story (great newspaper name or what?) in NYT this a.m. “smoking gun” story on greatest financial fraud of all times and Goldman Sachs role in it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/business/24trading.html

leave it to the NYTs to come up with the first smoking gun and to publish the story on Christmas Eve…

The anger and vitriol directed at Jane is astonishing.

I think so too. Sitting here reading the past week has really been an eyeopener for me. Not that I’ve never seen it on blogs, I just didnt expect it I guess. Discussion yes, not ANGER.
Hey people – you got the bill YOU WANTED! STFU

Yeah. And here’s some vitriol directed at those who disagree with bloggers here at FDL.

Is there ANY line that mustn’t be crossed for your fall-down and take-it-in-the-ass reps?

Franken, I’m talking to you asshole

And of course, if those don’t get the point across, just characterize people like Bernie Sanders as Nazis.

You might want to take a look at Germany in the 1930s to see how otherwise reasonable and compassionate people enabled the faschist movement to capture a state government and its societal framework.

Look at yourselves, people.

Damn, I can’t believe how fast the shit is piling up on all sides. And (off topic, as most of my comments seem to be) thank you for tolerating my scrambled rants. Hope I haven’t tracked in too much shit on my shoes. This place has a familial feel, which is nice for an old hermit. Merry Christmas (regardless of the storm outside the door) to Jane andd all.

I gave Oh Bummah! some dollars during the election and I am still waiting for some change.

27. Nuff said.

The DKos spillover has been a bit of a nuisance recently but it’s just a minor distraction, folks. Don’t let it get to you.

We do not require the approval of mouth breathers who are incapable of nuanced thinking.

good for them americans are in love with capitalism that reagan put on steroids now they get to watch this brand of capitalism play out.

anyone with knowledge of systems influence on behaviour and an understanding of variation and the human condition and history would know that capitalism by its very design will create an immoral society and a society of haves and have nots with 95% have nots.

but americans when it comes to world affairs and economic ideologies are dumbed down.

and dont expect the jouralists to tell you these things for one most are out and out capitalists and two they know little of what I am saying here.

americans you are being had. check roosevelts speech in 1936 in the garden and you will see he knew who the real enemy was.

these blogs will not tell you these things they want you blaming individuals and not look at the capitalist system.

keep on blaming fredie mac wall street congress white house etc and you will note the haves are only having more of your money.

even when they fail they win as your money bails them out.

they have created a win win system for them.

how can they do this.?

control the mass media, congress, white house, educational systems, the list in long.

their goal third world status for america then you will work of third world wages and they will have more profits.

it is always a class warfare and until you americans figure that out you are doomed.

roosevelt gave you americans a big boost after 29 but over the years you blew it, then came reagan and the rest is history.

WWRS,

What would Reddhead say?

Miss you Christy. I hope all is well with you.

Hi, Jane,

Keep up the good work. Count me among the number of longtime (5+ years) DailyKos readers who are scratching their heads on this one, wondering just what has gotten into those who are recommending these unsophisticated and downright atrocious diaries against you. I’ve never been an FDL reader (not orange enough?), but I’m starting to like what I see over here.

What’s most disappointing isn’t the flurry of ad hominem attacks (bad as they are). It’s the apparent bewilderment when someone on the left takes political action against–what did you call them?–political BFFs. But, when a president’s base is largely a cult of celebrity personality (something else that the Right had at least partially correct), what else should we expect? Try throwing a shoe at Robert Pattinson and see what happens.

Since when is “Oh no, you di-’int just insult my boy Obama/Rahm/Sanders!” a coherent political strategy?

Now I understand why Jews were mostly liberals –they are trained to question everything and then form your own opinion— the old joke about putting 2 Jews in a room and getting 3 differing opinions. What distresses this Jew is the acrimony on the left. We are not harmonious block voting negative nabobs, we think, we allow (encourage) differing viewpoints and we learn from those disagreements.

Sadly, I now know many Jewish right wingers–and see many others in the media–educated but blind and close minded. The left seems to be going down that same slope–makes me kinda wish I lived in a cave.

Of course, if it’s just corrupt when Republicans do it, but fine if it’s your BFF, no worries.

The hypocrisy is truly incredible. At lease we expected and knew that the Repubs were/are corrupt…. that is their job, protecting Corporate America but this bunch of pigs in the White House is beyond anything I expected. Sure, with Rham and the clintonites in the administration and the Goldman Sachs crooks controlling finance there was trickery destined to happen but the absolute gall with which they are operating is sickening.

Well done Jane, keep it up and ignore the compromised progressives.

Seconded very much.
There’s a big hunk of heart and soul from FDL off with her.

The key point here is that an investigation of the sort Hamsher and Norquist want would be a massive burden on a White House that is already struggling with enormous problems with no end in sight.

This is the “We’re too fucked up to be held accountable for anything” defense.

Also as teoc notes, and as Yves Smith did at Naked Capitalism with regard to the Goldman story, this is being done now because it is one of the deadest news times of the year.

I would also note that as I said yesterday Fannie and Freddie (the last I saw) now accounted for something like 80% of the current housing market. This $400 billion deal is a recognition by Obama that the banks continue to refuse to lend. Without Fannie and Freddie and the White House backing their action (and with gimmicks like the first time home buyer subsidy), we would not have a housing market in this country, period.

Finally, I predicted this a while ago. 2010 is an election year, a second stimulus was unlikely, but that there would be lots of programs (not called stimulus) which the White House would use to try to keep the economy pumped up until after the elections. This is one of them. As I also have predicted, most of these stimuli and stimuli by another name are going to run out at the end of next year, and 2011 is going to be hell, on us and on the economy.

and they are never sated ,always asking for more, more, more

I’ve lurked here for quite a while, but I registered today… to say goodbye. I’m unhappy with Obama and Emanuel for selling out Democrats and progressives. Progressive need to fight back on the merits of the issue at hand, not engage with wingnuts who worship at the Shrine of Saint Ronnie.

Hamsher’s calling for an investigation sounds a lot like typical right wing Villager tactics during the 1990′s. She’s pissed at Emanuel for selling out progressives, so instead she sells herself out to Grover Norquist on a core wingnut issue.

And about this, “Of course, if it’s just corrupt when Republicans do it, but fine if it’s your BFF, no worries.” Choosing to attack corruption is one thing. Teaming up with an anti-government, right wing provocateur to do it is inexcusable and treasonous to the progressive movement.

Bye bye.

We may all end up living in caves. I question everything the gov’t does regardless of party. However, they are so open about their bribes now that you don’t have to even wonder – it’s right in your face.

Hello Jane and Firedogs -

about that vitriol – do I even need to point out Jane saw this coming ?!?!, she knew these voices of vilification within our own ranks would arise, but she proceeded just the same – my granny called that courage

oh, and this guy sums it up quite nicely:

Hope is definitely not the same thing as optimism. It is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out

Vaclav Havel

Norm Podhoretz and Commentary successfully marginalized left-leaning Jews in America. The right-wing of Israel are the legacy of Jabotinsky — nee Vladimir Yevgenyevich Zhabotinsky — about whom Chomsky and other left-wing Jews have written.

Grover Norquist on a core wingnut issue.

Corruption is corruption no matter which side of the aisle you may be sitting and as for joining norquist let us not forget that even that left wing nut job Nadir had one good idea with the Corvair.

All this foolishness reminds me of that great ethnic insult segment in “Do The Right Thing.”

Hey FirePups. Anyone out there know what, if any, MSM play the Rahm thing is getting, particularly on the electric TV machine?

And Jane has finally jumped the shark-I’m VERY disappointed…Fucking Grover Norquist? Really Jane, REALLY?

What I find so irritating about people like Ezra Klein is that they flatter themselves by presenting themselves as above it all, disinterested policy wonks. Give them the benefit of the doubt and say they’re disinterested — they’re still “useful idiots” to this administration, which will never negotiate with the left, only the right. They think they can avoid picking sides and playing on a team.

Another irritating thing is the total lack of understanding what a “negotiation” entails: for example, that it’s not contradictory for Pharma and the insurance companies to lobby against the bill while ultimately being happy with it.

It’s a shame that Jane Hamsher is one of the only “sticks” out there on the left amid all these vegetative carrots. Support her.

Merry Christmas!

Jane,
Have you thought of asking your “conservative” friends/allies whether they will be willing to co-sign a petition investigating the war crimes of the Bush administration? Let me guess…No, because you know their answer. They are only willing to go after issues that are consistent with their ultra-right wing (in my opinion neo-fascist) agenda.

Your rationalizations, Jane, for your attempts to punish moderate Democrats including the White House are paper thin and pathetic. Believe it or not, it’s not about you!

Had the pleasure of standing in the same line at Border’s with Bill Kristol. To ease the suffocating pressure on my chest I had to offer on the way out, “So warmongers like you show your face on Christmas?”, for which I got a smirk and a cheery “Yes, we do.” No, I don’t care if he took it the wrong way.

For those of you who are questioning the Hamsher-Norquist alliance, you might want to read through the narrative here:

“You collect signatures on letters like these to get media traction, to build pressure so someone has to take action.”

Oh, such righteous indignation from … and who are you?

By joining forces with that “corrupt” guy as you called him, Jane simply loses the support that liberals would give to such an effort. I would never want my name next to a fascist who supported the Contras and Oliver North.

Is that what you really think of women who disagree with your special opinions? Tacky and rude !

for which I got a smirk

I’m confused. Is there ever a time when he doesn’t have that ridiculous smirk on his face?

Btw, the current PR from the White House is that Berry will micro-manage HCR legislation from here, on out — presumably to ensure the Medical Industrial Complex is not disappointed, at the end of the day.

hey BB hows things back there???
Merry Merry to you and yours Billy:>))

LA Times

Fannie, Freddie CEOs could get millions
By Jim Puzzanghera | 9:37 a.m.
The pay packages comes after the Federal Reserve bought $111.8 billion in debt from the mortgage firms. The top executives could each get $6 million a year.

I was wondering how they were going to get rid of the toxic assets.

You know, the cons love Grover and hate Freddie and Fannie.

“Tea Partiers plan “National Day of Strike” to attack “socialism” supporting corporations.” TPM.

They should love this fight.

Keep fighting Jane.

Are we interested in results, or in counting how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? No one is saying that there has to be an alliance with Norquist ever again (or any other wingnut, for that matter). Further, I, for one, have no doubt that Jane will not hesitate to call out Norquist on some idiotic pronouncement in the future, should he deign to make one.

If this action moves the AG to act on the obvious theft from the Treasury that is occurring, then I’m all for it. And remember: When you factor in TARP bailout money, etc, the numbers are in the $Trillions.

Now that is serious money. Our money. And something has to be done to stop the plundering of it. It’s that, or get used to eating “cold rice & a little rat meat…”

He didn’t need to pressure the Senate, knowing they are all corporatists. He is, however, prepared to pressure the Progressive Caucus should they demonstrate any posture except obeisance.

Jane Hamsher—-Our version of Thomas Paine!!! Thanks for criticzing the Emperor and King Obama!!! In his grave, Thomas Paine is happy with you Jane!!! In his grave, FDR and LBJ are rolling over with these Democrats and Emperor Obama and his court jesters!

Obama certainly couldn’t care less anyway about FDR or LBJ because he is trying to be like Ronald Reagan. In one of Obama’s books he praised the American Military-Corporate Empire.

So, yes, I applaud Jane Hamsher for her continued fight. [APPLAUSE....STANDING OVATION] As for real progressive fighting, just look at what unions can expect in the future–more give backs and more abuse by the government and this time it’s not the Republicans but the Democrats who are doing this. Rachel Maddow, Thom Hartmann—just says he likes the way Obama is doing things even though he Hartmann does like all of the healthcare bill, Mike Malloy who cannot bring himself to criticize Obama and then Randi Rhodes, Stephanie Miller, and columnists like Eugene Robinson, Ezra Klein, Bob Herbert, etc who just cannot praise Obama enough.

Therefore, much of the progressive criticisms at Obama have not been very effective for what is being implemented which is an attack on the values of liberals and progresives, that, being if you are one for sure. Thus, I am not too impressed by the so-called “progressive criticism” of Obama. And, even when there is criticism, it has been fully constrained, like Paul Krugman’s. In one breath there is criticism and in the next sentence back tracking and praise of Mr. Obama. Thom Hartmann illustrated this on his show already today. Listen to Randi Rhodes, another Obama Gatekeeper at 3:00 p.m. and you listen to the same crap of praise on Obama and his “wonderful policies.” I mean Randi Rhodes does not even invite Cindy Sheehan on her show any longer. Since Randi Rhodes became an ObamaBot, she does not like the antiwar voices. It only took Obama 72 Hours after being sworn-in to MURDER INNOCENT PAKISTANI FAMILIES!!!!! Obama loves his DRONE ATTACKS ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS!!!! Yes, I know he campaigned to KILL INNOCENT CIVILIANS IN PAKISTAN and AFGHANISTAN TO HUNT DOWN AL QAEDA and BIN LADEN…..YES HE CAN and DOES [Keep the campaign KILL POLICIES AND The PROGRESSIVE BASE LOVES HIM!!!

And to be nice, since it's the holiday season, if there has been so-called "liberal-progressive" criticism, it's not only been ineffective and sporadic, but, meaningless. Take a look at Obama and the Democratic Party's continuation of the Bush Doctine in Foreign Affairs and the increaseed military bidget at the expense of the people. The Obama administration is still borrowing from China and printing more and more money. What are you all going to do when the economic crash happens again, say, by mid-February, early March when there is another housing meltdown, this time with commerical properrty and the dollar really goes bad with sky-high hyperinflatiion because Obama has been a failure all along on this. Obama is a globalist, New World Order of which neoliberal economics rules the day. That is how I view his healthcare bill---ya know America is going the way of Argentina. For those of you whom have not read Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine," I ask of you to go read it and then ccome back and we can have a real honest discussion of Obama. Obama is another gatekeeper of the American empire and has been groomed to think in the terms of Imperial domination of people here in America and in countries where the U.S. has troops and invaded. Joe Biden supported the bankruptcy bill against the little guy in March of 2005. His speech was disgusting on it. Biden used "single mothers" and "women who could be exploited by their ex-husbands" to justify his vote in favor of the bankruptcy bill as well.

The real criticisms of Obama which I have been impressed are from the Radical, Marxist and Socialist persepctives which criticize the American Empire and its antecedents. I do not confuse criticisms of Obama by those so-called “liberals” (I am not a liberal but avowed Socialist/Radical) with, say, the radical perspective of Black Agenda Report or the Socialist views of Kate Randall or Lee Sustar. There is also the Feminist criticism of which going by this club mentality of the powerful in the Congress to tell women again what they have to do, is not something any so-called progressive should be clapping about, otherwise, I could say you are channeling Sarah Palin. If there is one provision that the right wing would like in this bill it's the restrictions for women to have abortions under this new healthcare bill. So, again, I am so glad that you so-called "liberals/progressives" just love this bill and keep on keeping on the praise of Emperor Obama and all his B.O. court jesters.

I know what I know and know what I see and the "progressive/liberal" community has been soft on Obama [and the so-called "Progressives in the House and Senate"] in regard to criticism and still is for the most part.

Bluewind

You know where Jane stand on the issues (Just like Bold Progressives)

You Know where Grover stands on his issues (he is a true conservative)

the big question for you is where does
Barack Obama
Rahm
Ben Nelson
Joe Lieberman

stand on the issues that are important to progressives? People like these are dangerous, because you have no clue what they stand for or against. The best thing about dealing with Jesse Helms is you knew where he stood, there was no guessing.

SUN TZU says it best know thyself and know thy enemies.

We all know Grover is and enemy of the progressives but what about
Barack Obama
Rahm
Ben Nelson
Joe Lieberman

I don’t think Grover and Jane will be throwing any Picnics anytime soon and singing we are the world.

Remember Rush Limbaugh hates the Individual Mandate, probably for different reasons, but at the end of the day HATE IS HATE.

That was might thought when I saw the item this morning.

You’re quoting Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now? Gad, your pop culture references are as dated as mine. “g”

Not exactly. As Atrios noted, McClatchy was all over it awhile back.

Yup.

I rarely go over to Kos but I just did and it’s a strange place. I have never seen such screaming and yelling. They have called Jane every name you can think of. It’s thoroughly disgusting. I won’t be going back.

Alas, the great deist’s grave is unknown, mislaid, so to speak.

Yeah, it’s gotten to be like the old Yahoo boards. Think Progress is similar a lot of the time.

There appears to be little if any thread moderation over there. One dimensional personal attacks seem to greatly outnumber thoughtful comments.

Phoenix Woman posted a diary over there yesterday. She, PJEvans, Teddy (perhaps some other pups I might have missed) did a good job of offering substantive rebuttals in the comments thread but of course the dittoheads were in the majority. I found the thread painful to read but I admire their chutzpah.

They don’t seem to have any sense of proportion. I don’t know why the great Orange One allows people to do that to his friends.

By joining forces with that “corrupt” guy as you called him, Jane simply loses the support that liberals would give to such an effort.

Still dont get it, do you? It’s bigger than LIBERALS, bigger than REPUBLICANS…it’s about AMERICA, AMERICANS, HUMAN GOD DAMN RIGHTS.
Go Jane!
Jane for President!

your attempts to punish moderate Democrats including the White House are paper thin and pathetic

Moderate and centrist have become code for corporatist. What is so funny about this is that you aren’t blaming the Democrats for coming up with their shitty healthcare bills but anyone who commits the unpardonable sin of remarking that they are.

And while it is incredibly tiresome to have to keep stating the obvious, the Democrats’ plans won’t control costs and they will force millions to buy insurance that will be (with their high deductibles and copays) too expensive to use. So the Democrats fail on both their essential pillars for healthcare: cost and actual delivery of healthcare. It won’t be Jane but voters in 2010, lots and lots of them, who will be punishing Democrats, and there will be nothing thin or pathetic about that. And you know what? The Democrats will deserve every bit of what they get.

Wow, I’ll go read it.
Good for you PW!!

They remind me of scientologists with that scoring system, they seem so obsessed with it. Reinforces conformity, obviously.

“cold rice & a little rat meat…”

Great line from Michael Herr. Charlie never gave up.

hey Nahant ya still around ? I was off lurking at other sites

That’s cuz we all picked them up at the same time. Hip hopper I ain’t.

I’ve been lurking here, well… forever. Jane, you have my total support. And even if I disagreed with you on something — you still have my support! I read the “other” sites daily and there is no better site than Firedoglake, in my opinion. Keep up the good work. Waving to Emptywheel and long distance to Christy, hope you all have merry holidays!

yup

When I first wrote about Asymetrical Access to the Press, my intent was to shine a bit of light on the mechanism by which groups of political rivals are manipulated and kept at each other’s throats to the great benefit of colonial/occupier power structures.

It has recently dawned on me that the American people are caught in the same bind that so complicated the struggles that I wrote about.

I’ve been very frustrated of late, by the seemingly unbeatable tactics of America’s ruling elites which keep people at the bottom of the economic pile at each other’s throats, principally by wielding a monopolistic control over the media to perpetrate the myth of a population riven by a vast intractable divide, each side relying on the efforts of their representatives chosen from one of two major parties to save them from inevitable predation at the hands of the ‘other’.

Please excuse a small digression;

Kevin Phillips, in his book The Cousins War, does much to trace the origins of one of the historic rifts that has provided a convenient foundation upon which to build this incredibly useful myth of a country divided. Phillips’ book does much to explain the origins of our own Civil War and the divide between Americans, North and South. It’s well worth the read.

Back to the point at hand;

I had been wondering how we Americans could avoid being driven down the road to civil war by the likes of Glen Beck and Rush, and I have written on these boards that I was sure we would have to find a way to engage the people we call Tea-Baggers very soon in order to both diffuse a much too volatile situation and to facilitate the fight against the pirates who are busy stealing our future.

You cannot imagine the relief that rolled like a wave over my mind upon reading that Jane had found a way to short-circuit both the conspiracy of silence that surrounds the machinations of the pirates, and the self-imposed right-left perspective that offers a convenient frame our for our political struggles, but also chains us to a debilitating anger that ultimately hinders our efforts to regain control of our futures.

Jane, you are a national treasure, thank you.

partisan divisions are killing this country
Anything Jane and other here at the Lake can do to bridge this divide is laudable.
Keep up the good work Jane !

re: a post yesterday/couldn’t get here

Jane:

Puke funnel??

LOL. Love it.

Just wanna wish you and your family a Merry Christmas !

lol! I used to think something like that when I went to Grateful Dead concerts. So many people priding themselves on nonconformity, surrounded by strikingly similar nonconformists.

Too many people apply an all or nothing approach to life, you either approve of everything someone does (right or wrong) or you disapprove of everything they do (right or wrong).

I can enjoy a painting without thinking every work that artist did was a masterpiece, or a novel without loving everything that author writes. Emotional maturity appears in short supply in some sectors.

OT Lieberman’s approval rating is now a 31% in Conn.

Liberals aren’t doing shit about Rahm, they’re all afraid of him. Not. Going. To. Happen.

Thank you, Cheryl! Happy holidays.

Hey, y’all, this is way the hell off topic, but (so) it’s where I go when I just can’t take it anymore: Danny MacAskill You Tube. Some kinda freedom, guaranfuckingteed. Enjoy.

vote Hamsher/Norquist!! That’s the ticket!!

Don’t ya mean soon to be ex-senator Lieberman

Happy holidays, Cheryl. Thanks for delurking. :)

back at ya Billy!! Enjoy! hope it is a white one for ya back there…

Doesn’t look like too many long timers here are afraid of him.

That was a great diary.

This one too: http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/19495

I particularly liked the “forcing the rot to the surface” comment.

Yep, that is it.

Not nearly soon enough.

I thought it was lower. Perhaps I’m confusing it with polls of Democratic voters.

Did you get tired of defending Hadassah Lieberman?

it’s a white one , we had over a foot of snow last weekend and it’s been colder than a witches tit

Merry Christmas Jane and a Happy Progressive New Year!

Wow. Everytime now that I visit Fire Dog Lake I feel like I’m visiting RedState.com. Can you say Teabag?

I don’t miss that one bit Billy. I gets cold enough here as it is… down to 30 night before… Glad the sun(earth) is now on the way back to longer days and warmer temperatures…much warmer!!

Got to go ,the real world beckons !

Jane and pups, I hope you all have a wonderful Christmas (or other)

And Jane thanks again for the tireless pursuit of truth

I can’t see you as a tea drinker. Cuppa big orange cesspool would be more to your liking.

Sorry we don’t pass the purity test at Kos. We’re just plain old Progressives. Not sophisticated like you. s/

Thanks ratfood! I’ll try to be better about my lurking in the next year! There are just so many smarties on this site that I learn a ton and often have little to add.

Same to you, BB.

Michael Whitney has a fresh cross-post up: “US Chamber of Commerce: Scrooge of the Year!”

It is a bit nippy, isn’t it. I really look forward to the days getting longer.

I don’t add much and they haven’t thrown me out… yet. :-)

“Those” people at Kos are showing their true colors. Quite a few things are coming out due to the mud slinging. About how diaries are recommended. How they push an agenda. If you are not on the same agenda, case closed.

Some DKosers are getting a little miffed. It’s all good. Nice to know who true progressives are.

This is how blogs rise and fall. I do not like DKos.

gotta go do the family thing .
heading to the in-laws , my BIL the wanna be biker with the rebel flags and Harley stuff everywhere
and about as far right as they come

Maybe I’ll pop a couple of valium before I go.

See ya Bill have a great Christmas

Fuckin’ A.

I refused to sign the loyalty to DNC and DLC oath so they wouldn’t let me on the site.

How thoughtless of you. Click your heels and stand up straight. :)

Jane is welcome in my town any time….Thanks again Jane–I know I support ya and can only speak for myself here. For others, well that is their problem if they cannot deal with you.

I would like to know what Jane thinks of the Chris Dodd race in CT, and the fight for Ted Kennedy’s seat in Massachusetts. Could Martha Coakley lose to the Republican in Massachusetts or is it a done deal?

Twain @ 117

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit.

So you don’t mind associating yourselves with teabaggers?

Maybe I’ll pop a couple of valium before I go.

Good Idea Billy.. I wished I some last August when staying at my little sisters …her husband is a Glen Beck, Dick Cheney & crew Lover and Worshiper… Was truly difficult, valium would have been welcomed…
Best Billy and bit your tongue other wise you could start a family feud!!

yes because “true progressives” go on Fox and team up with Grover Norquist. Great logic!

Don’t feed the troll(s).

I would sign the letter. I do not have to sleep with Grover – get over it !

I can’t wait to start planting again… should be in mid March here….

Howz the tigers. Got ‘em dressed up for Christmas?

What’s with Daily Kos running an article against you by Lewison, who used to work for New Democrat Coalition nitwit Cantwell?

I don’t mind accomplishing the objective of #1) Stopping the statute of limitations from running out and #2) opening an investigation into Rahm’s shady financial dealings. I don’t really give a shit how it gets done, I just want to see it get done. See Jane’s comment at 89. Prove you can read.

heh I wanna wake up alive in the mornin’. *g*

Ya get Bob all decked out?

LOL

He already has green and red feathers… close as he’s gonna get. I also want to wake up alive in the mornin’. :-)

Well off to the real world myself!!

I hope All the FirePups have a great Holiday Season and Very Progressive New Year!!!

Oh and don’t give up!! It may take more time than we like but with Jane & crew to guide us we will overcome!!

“And we’ll tell the pharmaceutical companies, thanks, but no thanks for the overpriced drugs – drugs that cost twice as much here as they do in Europe and Canada. We’ll let Medicare negotiate for lower-prices; we’ll stop drug companies from blocking generic drugs that are just as effective, and far less expensive; and we’ll allow the safe re-importation of low-cost drugs from countries like Canada.“—-Barack Obama’s “Health Care” Speech in Newport News, VA from October 4, 2008

Thanks again, Jane….The Obama Kool-Aid Drinkers can ask the Emperor if they can have operations to improve their hearing…..I doubt this B.O. healthcare bill would give them such a “right.”

Loads of comments from the orange line but very few pertaining to the subject, which is, corruption in the White House. I guess blathering about Jane (or Hamsher as the is referred to often) is a way to get the orange rocks off but does little to further the discussion about the damn corruption. Shit, if grovellling grover wants to belch about corrupt White House’s then let him help open the door. Once we can get a decent debate going about the corrupt clintonite, Rham, then maybe we can get to previous corruption from the Oval Office. sounds like a worthy debate. Go Jane!

Turn him green with envy, tell him you’re having Christmas dinner with Paul Krugman.

Best to you and yours, nahant. Happy holidays!

Yeah, critters that can make yer fingers a knuckle or two short in a heartbeat shouldn’t be trifled with.

One wonders how long after that speech did Oh Bummah! get a hefty “donation” from big Pharma?

Yep, any hand extended to Bob better be offering food ’cause he’s bound to eat something. He’s a good kid, though.

Sounds like the natives are restless and delivering some unwelcome gifts in Irak and Afghanistan today. Even Shenseki’s estimate of 250,000 troops aren’t gonna stop some dude from blowin’ himself up. McChrystal, you’re a fuckin’ idiot.

Excerpt from Ezra Klein..Wash Post Today

“The slow, grinding, ineluctable advance of legislation that is quite similar, albeit not identical, to what you began with. It’s not pretty, and it doesn’t necessarily feel like winning is supposed to feel. But this bill will do most of the things supporters hoped it would do: cover about 95 percent of all legal residents, regulate insurers, set up competitive exchanges, pretty much end risk selection, institute a universal structure that we can improve and enhance as the years go on, and vastly reduce both medical and financial risk for families.

It’s been a long time since the legislative system did anything this big, and people have forgotten how awful the victories are. But these are the victories, and if they feel bad to many, they will do good for more. As that comes clearer and clearer, this bill will come to feel more and more like the historic advance it actually is.”

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/winning_ugly_but_winning.html?hpid=topnews

Obama recently signed a Free Trade Agreement….Gotta love those “campaign promises.”

Obama is a free trader and hates unions not by words but deed….In the end, deeds are more important than words….

Got until Monday off so I’m gonna go collect a laplump and catch up on my reading.

Namaste

All of this Sturm und Drang is really just misdirection to avoid admitting how bad this bill is.

As painful and disappointing as this healthcare debate has been it has shown us who is who in Congress and the White House and it has exposed the faultlines on the left, between single payer and public option proponents, and between Democrats and progressives.

Fannie and Freddie fully fund the current attempt to re-inflate the housing bubble. They do this by having become the mortgage market and offering interest rates that are lower than anyone else can afford to offer. They are still on a inclining path of defaults but are being allowed to not factor the losses into their bottom line. This is facilitated by selling mortgage packages back to the government. Put simply they would not exist if it weren’t for government continually bailing them out. If they didn’t exist then interest rates would climb, mortgages would be harder to get, housing prices would fall and in the end more people would be able to find houses they could afford. The problem being the pain of current prices going down.

The amount Fannie and Freddie management types make is nothing against the losses to be incurred by having the taxpayer buy bad mortgages put together by F&F in the hopes that they will get better overtime.

I’m glad that Jane has taken up this issue, in-spite of some misgivings about Norquist and his drown the government in the bathtub goals . At this point anyone that is necessary it to stop the looting, which is only benefiting the wealthy. If they were doing this looting to help the poor I might be tempted to reconsider.

Obama’s HAMPer was one of the worst poison-pill plans ever put forth by either party and it wouldn’t have been possible without F&F.

Enjoy, SD.

Indeed. This whole bruhaha has demonstrated to me in no uncertain terms that the 25%er nutsacks on the right who found that Bush could never EVER do anything wrong is counterbalanced by the equally nutsacky left 25%ers for whom The Anointed One can never EVER do anything wrong.

A nutsack is a nutsack. The world would be better off if they all stayed home and never voted again. They are the reason the country and politics in it are totally corrupt and fucked.

There’s no need for there to be animosity between Daily Kos and Firedoglake, but it seems to all be coming from Kos, personal attacks, petty insults, smears, ect… if you diasgree fine, whatever, whats the point in creating FDL logins to insult people here? Seems very immature, and reflective of why we don’t have a serious government in office right now.

FDL remains a serious blog for serious people. Daily Kos seems very weak/ineffective/immature in comparison.

Nah, corporate donors are the reason for all the corruption. The nutjobs are just annoying little whiners.

I’ve been a Kossack for a little longer than I’ve been a Firepup. I am considering dumping DKos because it really is a fever swamp of True Believers. A scary religious cult that worships at Obama’s (and the simple letter “D”) feet with utter adoration and devotion.

Except for the namesake of the site itself, it is infested, so it appears, with utter fruitloops. Markos himself is a voice of reason but it has never been his policy or way over there to tightly control anything. He offers the blackboard and picks the official writers, but as for everyone else, no controls.

V I C T O R Y…V I C T O R Y…V I C T O R Y…

V I C T O R Y…F O R…R E A L…L I B E R A L S ! ! !

V I C T O R Y…V I C T O R Y…V I C T O R Y…

V I C T O R Y…F O R…R E A L…L I B E R A L S ! ! !

V I C T O R Y…V I C T O R Y…V I C T O R Y…

V I C T O R Y…F O R…R E A L…L I B E R A L S ! ! !

T E D…K E N N E D Y…W E…L O V E…Y O U !

I read that thread with disgust too. To be fair there were Jane defenders there too. Jed’s arguments seem to be: right wing hates Acorn n freddie mac so we need to love it. Also Jane is consorting with a bad guy. Sheesh.
I don’t see much of a difference between them and the Bush defenders

Pretty much Lord of the Flies over there. No adult supervision.

God that’s terrible writing. Unreadable.

Jane, I hate Rahmbo and the current attempts to reinflate the housing bubble. But your idea of fighting it this way is greatly misguided, I believe. First, it is doing it by attacking the wrong targets. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are part of the problem, but they are by no means the worst offenders and they actually do some good by helping the lower end of the housing market. That is why the conservatives want to take them down. Second, it is by the wrong method. Demanding an investigation into a issue almost ten years is the kind of thing the right wing does when they want to screw up government. You want to keep the Obama administration from accomplishing anything productive next year? Have them get wrapped up in an investigation. Third, it is with the wrong allies. While I think it’s great to make common cause with conservatives who have the same goals, they should be honest partners. I afraid Grover Norquist and Fox News are hardly that. They are using you as a (hate to say) useful idiot and will cut the legs out from underneath you the first chance they get.

So you are going after a GOP target, using GP tactics with a GOP partner. Why do I think this can only end badly? History, I guess.

From Huffington Post, Obama ‘Absolutely’ Will Help Merge Health Care Bills http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/23/obama-health-care-merge-senate-house_n_402682.html

So Obama will get involved, presumably to make sure the House tows the line and the senate 60 vote stays intact. Am I right or am I right?

Jane, et all – keep up the good work, you know you are on the target when you are taking fire. DKos and many of the ‘liberal’ blogs have long been infiltrated by insider Dems (just look at Armando and DHinMi as perfect examples), out to crush any lefty-hippie-types with their damn progressive principals. Just get in line and learn to deal with us being Pansycrats. No thanks!

When Oblama kicked out every liberal economist and brought in Dick Rubin and brought in Tax Cheat Timmah Geithner, I felt the only recourse was to join the opposition on the right (Tea Baggers). It was amazing how dismissive the ‘left blogs’ were of ANY criticism coming from the base about Geithner. I felt we just got screwed, and have yet to see any evidence to contradict my view on Oblama/Congress.

I think it is great to see you taking the lead on this and giving us libs an outlet to channel our energy regarding the slow motion train wreck of a President and Democratic Congress we have. Keep up the good work!

The True Believers (or 25%ers) ARE a problem because they ALWAYS vote for the person with a “D” by their name no matter what that person does, no matter how many times that “D” votes for corporations or for war or for keeping their eyes closed on illegal spying, torture, abuse, etc. They vote for them simply because of the talisman-like “force” of having a “D” by their name on a ballot.

They cannot even tell the difference between a GOPer that simply switches parties and a real “D” who is for the “little people”. All it takes to be magically purified and Good is to have a “D” by your name. Thus the corruption continues because the 25%ers keep rewarding the criminality with votes. EVERY time.

Thanks for the standard Likud party line neo-con.

Jane and Norquist have formed an alliance of sorts on one or two common issues, they aren’t getting married. Get over it.

Just a suggestion, I think it’s a good time for FDL to start actively mocking Obama. It’ll be fun.

asking eric holder, who doesn’t have the cleanest background, to investigate rahm emanuel??? rofl.

You’re welcome, chip.

You can rail against them all you like, low information voters are not going to go away.

It’s worth adding that the same progressives who attack the strategy of collaboration also support caving on the Senate HC bill. There is no fight in those progressives.

Right. That is the purview of SNL and John Stewart and Colbert.

Perhaps put a bug in their ear? Though I am certain they are fully capable of handling that (deserved) part of the game themselves.

I think your timing is PERFECT, Jane Hamsher.The ONLY possible way to do something about the corruption is to BAND TOGETHER, THANK YOU and everyone at FDL!!
Firing Rahm is not enough. Obama needs to RESIGN!

Apparantly you are unable to grasp that corruption is corruption. Jane thinks and acts outside the box. She is truly an inovative activist, one that any responsible citizen should appreciate. If people like you who have blinders on were to take off the blinders for a short time you would see that exceptional folks like Jane are doing the entire population a great service. I could care less with whom she teams up with. I say to Jane…keep at it and partner up with whomever it takes to expose the crapola going on in this country.

I seem to recall this site admonishing us “progressives” for using GOP talking points or appearing to do so during the primary season in criticizing the Clintons? Now we have the same site attacking Obama using GOP “talking points”. Certainly JH knows that Liebercare is more expansive than Hillarycare ever was proposed to be and something is rather sticky and stinky here. Liebercare passed and Hillarycare tanked. Go figure.

I signed the petition, but I think that asking Eric Holder to act is like asking Harry Reid to investigate political prostitution.

Or, in the spirit of bipartisanship, it is like asking Rush Limbaugh to investigate prescription drug abuse.

If there is some sort of contest to see who can pack the most unsubstantiated claims into a single comment you’re facing stiff competition and will have to try a little harder.

First, why are you calling this Liebercare? It is Obamacare.

Did you not notice that Obama has made clear that this was exactly what he wanted and even thanked Senator LIEberman? What part of that exchange did you miss?

Considering how hostile the Rahmbama administration is to progressives, I am puzzled why you don’t get the anger here?

Would you like Rahm to continue to get away with all of his abuses of power? That’s fine.

But please, do not insult the progressive base and claim that they are GOP talking points. Nobody is proclaiming that Hillary would have been better…at least not me.

The problem is that Obama surrounded himself with Clintonites who are, essentially, moderate Republicans.

As is Obama.

I rarely go over to Kos but I just did and it’s a strange place. I have never seen such screaming and yelling. They have called Jane every name you can think of. It’s thoroughly disgusting. I won’t be going back.

Funny, because I was just there and I saw recced diaries that supported Jane as well as slammed her. It’s weird how people here suddenly treat the site as a monolith when that’s clearly not the case.

But whatever.

The e-mails of self-congratulation are just pouring in. Some of them want me to thank my Senators for voting for the bill. I don’t know how these critters sleep at night.

Twain wasn’t referring to the diarists but rather the commenters.

On big piles of money.

Don’t you love how they timed the vote for Christmas Eve? Better than a Friday night news dump.

Yep. Thanks. Should have made that clear.

It just came down the chimney – surprise. My granny used to say that bad children got ashes and switches for Christmas – we must have been awful.

I’m calling it Liebercare because Obama would surely have signed a public option bill BUT FOR the fillibuster rules in the Senate which required a 60 vote supermajority instead of a 51 vote majority. Reconciliation would not have worked. I am calling it Liebercare because Lieberman knocked out the public option and I do not blame Obama for that and nor should you. You should not blame Obama for no public option. Blame Gore for trying to make Lieberman Vice President.

I am also calling it Liebercare because that is what JH called it when it suited her. Now that she wants to blame Obama for Lieberman, I do not accept her revisions.

I hope she does get her own TV show though. She really wants it.

I just skimmed some of the comments at HuffPo. Mostly supportive of the Senate bill, it seems. Some commenters even noted that their private insurance plans currently have $4,000-$8,000 deductibles and they somehow believe this is going to make it better.

You can fool some of the people all of the time.

Obama already has an overabundance of fluffers but best of luck with your application.

If we had a different form of gov’t and could have a no confidence vote, what do you think it would look like?

just to be clear – my jab at 162 in no way should be construed as a lack of support for what jane is proposing, nor her alignment w/ norquist.

im fully behind you jane. as someone said upthread – this isnt about party lines being crossed, this is about wanting the best for all americans.

thank you jane – for putting yourself into the flames yet again & ESPECIALLY at this time of year. happy holidaze to you, & all fdl pups – even those new & rude visitors here at the lake.

~gp

Critics from the right and the left casting no-confidence votes would surely be a majority. Suspect there would be more than two parties who would have to form alliances to govern. Don’t know if it would work better, hard to imagine it could be worse.

Happy holidays to you, gp.

Rahm’s shady dealings? You guys sound like teabagging conspiracy theorists. And now going after Fannie and Freddie? Sarah Palin anyone? FDL has totally jumped the shark.

Oh, come on. The site as a whole gets viciously slammed regardless. I guess it depends on what the meaning of “Kos” is.

Once again, persuasive. You should consider a job in advertising.

Krugman quotes and calling people teabaggers is really all you’ve got, isn’t it? Hard to imagine how you even meet the competence threshold to comment at the big orange cesspool.

You began by referencing a single comment by an individual, now you are lumping all FDL comments together. Focus much?

When people are allowed to call Jane a slut because they disagree with her, THEY have jumped the shark and there is no going back. They sound like a bunch of lunatics.

jumped the shark

OK I’ll bite what does “jumped the shark” mean? Is it a trollism?

Obama makes friends with Wall Street, the health insurers, the pharmaceutical industry and Lieberman, which is good. Anyone concerned with the current kleptocracy and finding who ever might help to assist in that change is doing on is doing a bad thing.

My crooks are better than your pragmatism. – Got it.

Do you get tired of defending yourself?

Last I heard, Hadassah never blackfaced you or anyone else.

jump the shark

Obama will get involved to make sure the corporations get what he promised them. Can’t have them getting all concerned because their constituents are raising hell. (snark>) They must be strong!

US pop culture reference. Specifically to the TV show Happy Days referring to an episode where the characters were visiting in Southern California and the “Fonzie” character water ski’d and jumped a shark tank – has come to signify where some TV show or entity has “gone off the rails”

IOW, not a specific trollism per se.

I’ve always wanted to be a fly on the wall when Sheila Bair is around in the “good old boys” meetings. She seemed to make the Obama boys nervous since the beginning. I always took her populism of helping main street over wall street to be sincere. Yes, and god for bid, she is a Republican.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aTFflUwD.Qbg

I’m heading out to buy provisions before the stores close. In case I don’t see you later, happy holidays to you and the rest of the pups!

Look LBJ or Roosevelt would have had this completely in hand and wouldn’t whine about needing 60 votes.

For that matter Bush never had more than 60 Republicans in the Senate and he got the job done. If Lieberman, one independent that Obama helped to get reelected, really is insurmountable then Obama is not the right guy for the job.

And to you. Stay warm.

The Fonz on Happy Days jumped the shark. Technically it is going one step beyond credibility. Actually, The Corporate Health Bill in the Senate does lots of jumping. Nebraska and Loosianna get free medicaid. Insurance companies can put us in jail if we do not buy their crappy insurance. Joe LieberLiar gets anything he wants. PhRMA and Rahm Emmanuel are the best of friends, as they bankrupt the rest of us.

It’s a shame that Jane Hamsher is one of the only “sticks” out there on the left amid all these vegetative carrots

What an eloquent turn of phrase. Me likey!

Does Kos exert any “moderating” influence, or does he just give them the keys to the condo and buy the beer?

FDL remains a serious blog for serious people? Really?

If going on Fox & Friends, aligning yourselves with Grover Norquist and tarring, feathering and lying about Bernie Sanders defines a serious progressive blog, I think you folks are in trouble.

As to this place being for serious people, grotesque statements such as these are everywhere on FDL:

Is there ANY line that mustn’t be crossed for your fall-down and take-it-in-the-ass reps?

Obama already has an overabundance of fluffers but best of luck with your application.

Those are my particular favorites in the past days. Vulgarity and homophobia. What a combo.

But wait, you’re all a serious bunch.

And by the way, I’ve never posted a single comment at Kos and I barely read anything there. In fact, you could say I’m impartial.

But I don’t see Markos appearing with the racists on Fox & Friends nor firmly allying himself with Grover Norquist, a guy who helped bona-fide war criminals.

I don’t think they have mods – if they do, most of them must have been in the beer. :)

Thank you, Hugh. What a nice succinct summary. I may get out my little cutty-pasty machine if I visit some foreign blogs. Hope you don’t mind.

All in all though, finding a decent person in that group still kind of like looking for a good potato in a 50 pound bag that was misplace for a year.

What are you so angry about? You just rant and there seems to be a rather general rage. You know, FDL didn’t create the mess we are in but we would certainly like to help people to get out of it. Your anger is misplaced.

my BIL the wanna be biker with the rebel flags and Harley stuff everywhere
and about as far right as they come

If you want to search for “common ground,” ask him how he feels about Cigna giving its retiring executive a $73.2 million golden parachute, and the $4-6 mill for the Fannie/Freddie execs.

Then tell him the way to fight such nonsense is to contribute to FDL.

Just kinda thinkin’ back to a protest I went to back around the bank bailout time. (Can’t remember the name of the group but it was the hippies alternative to the Tea people.) There were Ron Paul folks and I was carrying a sign that said something like “Support the Independence of the FDIC”. They liked my sign and we had a good chat.

Honestly you can find some of those same kinds of quotes on every site that allows some level of free expression. The highly moderated sites place a higher value on conformity. So maybe they have a few less cuss words but the vehemence is the same. Even the highly modded sites still have people that push anger to the forefront.

For an example of non-cussing with the same sense of condescension witness your smart ass “Really?” as an example. If you were trying to win the rational position you would avoid statements that nearly scream your unwillingness to accept that there may be people that can thoughtfully disagree.

Please note that I did not attack you in the same personal way that you attacked everyone here. If you really can’t see the difference then you can’t hope to persuade anyone to your position.

Sorry I was doing way too many illegal substances during those days. I may have to take “pop culture” course.

Perhaps you’ll take some solace in knowing I didn’t know what it meant either. Learn something everyday.

The e-mails of self-congratulation are just pouring in. Some of them want me to thank my Senators for voting for the bill.

Yeah, that crap was clogging my mailbox this morning as well.

I hit “unsubscribe” on each one, provided a stinging “reason” and entered a fake return e-maill address so I will continue to have the opportunity to provide them my “feedback.”

Ooops, maybe I misunderstood, Twain. I thought you were talking about the endless e-mail spam I’m getting from Obama, Boxer, Kerry — the usual suspects. That’s what I was referring to.

I’m ranting and afflicted with a “general rage”? Once again, here are some comments from your compatriots here:

Is there ANY line that mustn’t be crossed for your fall-down and take-it-in-the-ass reps?

Obama already has an overabundance of fluffers but best of luck with your application.

You all need to take off your blinders and look around. And it sounds like that’s true of the people who post at Kos. I haven’t looked, but I trust that it’s just as grotesque.

But at the very least, their writers don’t mendaciously attack Bernie Sanders, go on Fox & Friends or ally themselves with war criminals like Norquist. And yeah, if forced to do so, Jane would admit to that.

If I’m angry about anything, it’s watching progressives like Jane rage against the machine with deplorable tactics and even less tact.

I mean, seriously, Bernie Sanders is now on the enemies list here at FDL?

Who’s next? Jane Hamsher?

I’m calling it Liebercare because Obama would surely have signed a public option bill BUT FOR the fillibuster rules in the Senate which required a 60 vote supermajority instead of a 51 vote majority

Oh, honey, I hope you’re not disappointed when Santa doesn’t show to eat those cookies you left out for him!

Haven’t you posted this same crap about 16 times? See 206 and 217 just for starters.

That doesn’t mean it was posted by the original folks 16 times as well.

Thank you Jane for exposing this. There is no real change in this administration, they are just slightly less malevolent that than the previous administration.

There is not the political will in this country for real change.

Bread and Circus.

I was talking about e-mails from the Senators. They are just thrilled with themselves. I suppose if we’re lucky we won’t hear from ALL of them.

Don’t know who’s keeping the FDL enemies list so I’ll defer on that. I may have seen it a few days ago though.

Bernie Sanders sent emails and asked for money saying that he was not going to back down. Well Lieberman didn’t back down and made out like a bandit. Sanders got a small amount of money for some clinics but put against the bad outcomes of this legislation many people feel he sold his support too cheaply.

At least we knew that Lieberman was not on our side.

I suppose if we’re lucky we won’t hear from ALL of them

I think you can forget about Kyl, Imhoff & Demint. ;)

I got a dup because of database connection error – sorry about sending it again.

A delete this message button would be nice.

You’re right, of course. No one here makes blanket critiques of that other blog. How silly of me.

breaking AP headline: “Treasury removes cap for Fannie and Freddie aid”

Oh. I see.

I’m worthy of being condemned for using a single word to express mild sarcasm, but ratfood can debase Obama with his fluffer comment.

Or Praedor can fling homophobic crap about people like Bernie Sanders taking it in the ass.

Or you can opine about whiners needing 60 votes and then broadly debase people by saying “finding a decent person in that group still kind of like looking for a good potato in a 50 pound bag that was misplace[sic] for a year.”

And you’re worried about me?

If you really can’t see that you do the very thing you condemn, then you can’t hope to persuade anyone to your position.

The only guy I dislike more than Greenspan, Bernanke or Summers. Geithner has stepped into the plate.

Oh that was just my silly (though mistyped) attempt at humor. Thanks for asking.

There are assholes on EVERY blog! Is that news to you?

There’s also a big community over there with a diversity of opinions and with a lot of passionate, committed, informed people who want to work hard for progressive causes, and put their money where their mouth is. It just irks me to see them all tarred so cavalierly with the same brush.

Rising to Jane’s defense is commendable, but the hysterical, kneejerk demonizing of Kos as a whole is straight out of high school. It’s truly bizarre and feels a little too close to the kind of personality cult that posters here deride others as belonging to. (Oh, the irony!)

Enough schoolmarm, I’ve done my venting.

Also, I really should reiterate, since you might gotten the wrong impression, it wasn’t the use of the word “Really?”. It was all of the sentences stung together attacking virtually everyone. Even saying that I’m condemning you is incorrect. I am disagreeing with most of the things you’re saying because you offer no middle ground.

My goal was to suggest a more reasonable tone. You refuse. Case closed.

I can assure you if I felt my pontificating, on the topic of the thread, debased, I would have addressed it. The only thing I thought was, “oh, I should get up soon and make the mashed potatoes for dinner.”

I’m sure there are differing opinions and I like that, but to call Jane names is something else and accomplishes nothing – except to make others angry. Why does a woman have to be called names? If she were a man, they might yell and swear but would they call him names like that? I don’t think so.

Thanks to Jane for highlighting this now, which is an ideal moment for establishment pols to get away with all kinds of crap unnoticed. I’ll be the first to admit that I know next to nothing about the structure of Freddie and Fannie, which is ignorance that they count on, but I know greed and corruption when I see it. Don’t get so distracted with big shiny objects, blog wars, personalities or Santa that we don’t notice that someone is slipping our wallet out of our pocket.

Misdirected venting, I might add. Twain visited DKos to see what the fuss was about and was disgusted by the comments, period. Neither Twain or anyone else represents the collective opinion of FDL commenters, even though many (including myself) agree.

If there is currently an anti-DKos sentiment here it’s because DKos commenters have been coming over in droves to deliver their childish insults in person.

None of the regular FDLers believe everybody at DKos is a nitwit, although an opinion based solely on the sampling we have recently witnessed could easily lead to that impression.

But at the same time waitomo saying pretty much the same thing on this same page about people posting to FDL brings you no comparable sense of outrage?

I happen to work for one of those clinics. We think this bill is obviously not as good as any of us would have liked, but all the same, it’s going to make a big difference for the low-income communities we serve.

And $14 billion is no “small amount” when it comes to providers on the front lines. All of us with ‘dogs’ actually in this fight care every day for the under-insured and uninsured.

Bernie fought for that money at the end, so for Sorenstein to spuriously attack him here like he’s some kind of warmed-over Mitch McConnell is not only incredibly insulting, but it’s incredibly short-sighted. And, quite frankly, incredibly stupid.

Read the press release from Bernie and then see if you want to go over to Sorenstein’s piece and comment.

http://sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=30b2a415-4ade-4367-af7d-4c3306e31b58

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/23/vt-voters-to-bernie-sanders-stand-up-for-whats-right-or-risk-losing-your-seat/

Our patients can’t wait indefinitely for Jane Hamsher to provide them a better bill. Nor can they afford to have this bill killed. Why? Because it’s hopelessly naive and utterly reckless to try and destroy this now. If anyone thinks they’re going to just magically start this process over, they’re deluding themselves.

This bill is an ugly start, but for some of our patients, they don’t care if they win ugly, they just care if they live.

And I’m telling you — from the front lines — this will help. Doing nothing won’t.

None of the regular FDLers believe everybody at DKos is a nitwit, although an opinion based solely on the sampling we have recently witnessed could easily lead to that impression.

Well, yeah.

Jane.

I don’t think you need to shy away from stating flatly that you view Emanuel’s removal from office desirable. And that your motivation is based both on his being a destructive force in the shaping of this horrid HCR effort and on the fact that he is a scounrel and apparently a thief.

These two reasons for his removal are complementary and they should be stated forcefully and unequivocally. There is nothing wrong with your sayig outright the man is unfit to hold the position he holds for a number of reasons. And that each one is valid in it’s own right, as they certainly are.

That ASSHOLE!!! Happy now? ;)

Look, I’m not outraged; there’s plenty of that to go around here already. I just think the pie fighting is juvenile and ultimately counterproductive. I’ve pointed out again and again that while I may question the long-run effects of Jane’s tactics, I applaud her for throwing a wrench into the works and for taking what she sees as a principled stand. It may work brilliantly; it may not.

I’ve got no problem with calling out an asshole as such; for the record, I started reading a couple of that guy’s posts and stopped when I saw where he was coming from; a few points there, but too much hysterical Jane-bashing.

My problem is when cheerleading eclipses real discussion and when REASONABLE dissenters are shouted down in an attempt to defend Jane.

But maybe I’m expecting a dialogue on this particular topic that’s just not forthcoming; in that case, I’m the one at fault, I guess.

Looking at my comment, I’d add that we ALL have dogs in this fight. I think I just see more of them on a day-to-day basis. And I’m sorry for anyone who has to go through the miserable hell that can arise through health care problems.

If I had my way, single payer. Period. I think I can safely say Bernie feels that way, too.

Jane,

I agree 100% with your decision to create avenues of communication with people on the right, including Grover Norquist. I know what it’s like to be vilified and crucified for doing the right thing to benefit the common good when self interest may have dictated inaction or a far less controversial course of action. Takes immense courage to do the right thing. I appreciate and thank you for your efforts.

Keep up the good work.

Happy Holidays.

it’s going to make a big difference for the low-income communities we serve

For how long?

You do realize that the Senate bill is just entrenching the system “as is,” plus adding a whole bunch of faults, like sending $$$ to insurance companies, which will only make them STRONGER and more able to resist real change?

This bill is an ugly start, but for some of our patients, they don’t care if they win ugly, they just care if they live.

Let me offer you this analogy:

say you’re a friend of mine, and I see you on the street, and you tell me that your car’s just been totalled [or stolen; whatever].

You’re scared and upset, because you NEED that car to get to your job. [There's no public transportation in your area; no friends to give you endless rides [except me, but I'm leaving town tomorrow]; no funds to buy a new car.]

I say, “wait a minute,” then I go a block or two away, pull out a gun, and pistol whip the first guy at a stop sign I can find. I steal his car and bring it back to you. [If we're really lucky, there are bags of groceries, maybe a few Christmas presents, in the back seat, and perhaps $$$ from his wallet.]

You, of course, are DELIGHTED at this good fortune that will benefit you.

Does it matter to you that some other guy is lying shot in the gutter, without a car, so that you could have this benefit?

‘Cause that’s what’s happening here: various groups are being metaphorically robbed and pistol-whipped, so some other groups [Nebraska, for one] can have some goodies. And NOTHING is happening to change the lousy social structure that puts you & them in this situation. In fact, this bill reinforces that social structure and makes it LESS likely that it will ever change or improve.

All Jane and most of us are saying is that there’s a better way to get you a car than to steal from others.

………………….…..H A P P Y…H O L Y…D A Y S………………….

I’M SORRY FOR ALL OF THE FIGHTING…

I’LL TAKE 51% OF THE BLAME…

NO MATTER WHO’S RIGHT,

I’LL BID YOU GOODNIGHT,

AND THEN WE’LL CONTINUE THE GAME…

I saw 95 year old Jack Lalane interviewed and asked ‘what he thought of Richard Simmons’…he said…

“I Never Slept With Him”

……………….

MERRY CHRISTMAS

How do you make that jump? Just because I disagree with Jane chumming up with Norquist it means that’s the way I feel about ALL women? You’re weird-sorry but you are, and I say that not knowing if you’re a woman or a man.