December 23, 2009
Attorney General of the United States of America
U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530-0001Dear Attorney General Holder:
We write to demand an immediate investigation into the activities of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. We believe there is an abundant public record which establishes that the actions of the White House have blocked any investigation into his activities while on the board of Freddie Mac from 2000-2001, and facilitated the cover up of potential malfeasance until the 10-year statute of limitations has run out.
The purpose of this letter is to connect the dots to establish both the conduct of Mr. Emanuel and those working with him to thwart inquiry, and to support your acting speedily so that the statute of limitations does not run out before the Justice Department is able to empanel a grand jury.
The New York Times reports that the administration is negotiating to double the commitments to Fannie and Freddie for a total of $800 billion by December 31, in order to avoid the congressional approval that would be needed after that date. But there currently is no Inspector General exercising independent oversight of these entities. Acting Inspector General Ed Kelly was stripped of his authority earlier this year by the Justice Department, relying on a loophole in a bill Mr. Emanuel cosponsored and pushed through Congress shortly before he left for the White House. This effectively ended Mr. Kelly’s investigation into what happened at Fannie and Freddie.
Since that time, despite multiple warnings by Congress that having no independent Inspector General for a federal agency that oversees $6 trillion in mortgages is a serious oversight, the White House has not appointed one.
We recognize that these are extremely serious accusations, but the stonewalling by Mr. Emanuel and the White House has left us with no other redress. A 2003 report by Freddie Mac’s regulator indicated that Freddie Mac executives had informed the board of their intention to misstate the earnings to insure their own bonuses during the time Mr. Emanuel was a director. But the White House refused to comply with a Freedom of Information Act request from the Chicago Tribune for those board minutes on the grounds that Freddie Mac was a “commercial” entity, even though it was wholly owned by the government at the time the request was made.
If the Treasury approves the $800 billion commitment to Fannie and Freddie by the end of the year, it will mean that under the influence of Rahm Emanuel, the White House is moving a trillion-dollar slush fund into corruption-riddled companies with no oversight in place. This will allow Fannie and Freddie to continue to purchase more toxic assets from banks, acting as a back-door increase of the TARP without congressional approval.
Before the White House commits any more money to Fannie and Freddie, we call on the Public Integrity Section in the Justice Department to begin an investigation into the cause of Fannie and Freddie’s conservatorship, into Rahm Emanuel’s activities on the board of Freddie Mac (including any violations of his fiduciary duties to shareholders), into the decision-making behind the continued vacancy of Fannie and Freddie’s Inspector General post, and into potential public corruption by Rahm Emanuel in connection with his time in Congress, in the White House, and on the board of Freddie Mac.
We also call for the immediate appointment of an Inspector General with a complete remit to go after this information.
We both come from differing political ideologies. One of us is the conservative head of a transparency foundation, and the other is the publisher of a liberal political blog. But we make common cause today out of grave concern for the future of our country in the wake of corruption-riddled bailouts. These bailouts continue to rob Main Street to benefit Wall Street, and, because of that, we together demand the resignation of Mr. Emanuel, a man who has steadfastly worked to obstruct both oversight and inquiry into the matter. Rahm Emanuel’s conflicts of interest render him far too compromised to serve as gatekeeper to the President of the United States.
We will lay out the details further below, and are available at your earliest convenience to meet with you directly.
Sincerely,
Sign our petition to AG Holder: investigate Rahm Emanuel.
(Additional background information after the jump.)
Background information:
Rahm Emanuel was appointed to the board of Freddie Mac in February of 2000 by Bill Clinton, after serving as White House political director where he was a vocal defender of Mr. Clinton during the Monica Lewinski matter. He served there until leaving to run for Congress in 2001, which qualified him for $380,000 in stock and options and a $20,000 annual fee.
According to the Chicago Tribune, during his tenure the board was notified by executives of their plans to misstate the earnings of Freddie Mac: “On Emanuel’s watch, the board was told by executives of a plan to use accounting tricks to mislead shareholders about outsize profits the government-chartered firm was then reaping from risky investments. The goal was to push earnings onto the books in future years, ensuring that Freddie Mac would appear profitable on paper for years to come and helping maximize annual bonuses for company brass.” (3/5/2009)
The Tribune further reported that “during his brief time on the board, the company hatched a plan to enhance its political muscle. That scheme, also reviewed by the board, led to a record $3.8 million fine from the Federal Election Commission for illegally using corporate resources to host fundraisers for politicians. Emanuel was the beneficiary of one of those parties after he left the board and ran in 2002 for a seat in Congress from the North Side of Chicago.”
In December 2003, a report (PDF) was written by Armando Falcon Jr., head of the entity charged with oversight of Freddie Mac, the Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO). The report asserts that company executives “demanded whatever level of earnings management was necessary to achieve steady rapid growth in Enterprise profits.” It also “provided evidence that non-executive members of the Board were aware, and supportive of, management in this regard, including the use of derivatives to improperly manage the earnings of Freddie Mac,” citing notes from a June 2, 2000 meeting of the Board of Directors (p. 24).
The OFHEO report concluded that board had “failed in its duty to follow up on matters brought to its attention.” The SEC filed a complaint (PDF) saying that Freddie Mac had “misreported profits by billions of dollars in order to deceive investors between the years of 2000 and 2002,” per ABC News.
In Congress, Rahm Emanuel worked to pass a bailout of Fannie and Freddie, cosponsoring the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008, which also dissolved OFHEO. It moved their regulatory authority to the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA), which took Fannie and Freddie under conservatorship in September 2008. The same act abolished the Federal Housing Finance Board (FHFB) and replaced it with the FHFA.
After Mr. Emanuel was named Chief of Staff, the White House denied a Chicago Tribune Freedom of Information Act request for information on his Freddie Mac activities: “The Obama administration rejected a Tribune request under the Freedom of Information Act to review Freddie Mac board minutes and correspondence during Emanuel’s time as a director. The documents, obtained by Falcon for his investigation, were “commercial information” exempt from disclosure, according to a lawyer for the Federal Housing Finance Agency.” However, at the time of the request Freddie Mac was no longer a “commercial” enterprise, having been taken over by the government in September of 2008.
According to ABC News, the Justice Department is in possession of these records, yet no indictments have been forthcoming: “Freddie Mac records have been subpoenaed by the Justice Department as part of its investigation of the suspect accounting procedures” they reported in November 2008.
When the OFHEO and the FHFB were abolished, FHFB employees were automatically transferred to the FHFA and retained their “same status, tenure, grade, and pay.” Ed Kelly, who had been the Inspector General for the FHFB, was looking into the wrongdoing of Fannie and Freddie at the FHFB when the Justice Department, using the authority of the 2008 law Emanuel cosponsored, stripped him of Inspector General authority and removed him from oversight of Fannie and Freddie.
The Huffington Post obtained copies of an internal memo (PDF) on the ruling by the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel. They report that “the ruling came in response to a request from the Federal Housing Finance Agency itself — which means that a federal agency essentially succeeded in getting rid of its own inspector general.”
The memo states that “Congress did not intend for the FHFA to have an Acting or interim IG pending the confirmation of a PAS IG.” But according to the Huffington Post, “the chairmen of the House and Senate banking committees, Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) and Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.), both told HuffPost that Congress had no intention whatsoever of revoking Kelley’s authority to operate as an IG.”
According to Neil Barofsky, the Special Inspector General overseeing the TARP bank bailout: “It’s a serious gap in oversight,” Barofsky told HuffPost of Ed Kelley’s loss. “It does impact what we do. Ed was a member of our TARP IG council and a partner in our investigative work.” Barofsky said he still investigates areas of FHFA, but his mandate only covers “a sliver of what they do.”
The Huffington Post further reports that it is the White House’s failure to appoint an Inspector General that has stalled the process: “Federal Housing Finance Agency officials insist[] that they notified Congress about the problem and pressed the Obama administration “multiple times” to appoint someone to the position tasked with rooting out wrongdoing at Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Home Loan Bank,” they report.
I addition to his role as White House Chief of Staff, Mr. Emanuel is heavily involved in decisions made by the Treasury Department . The Wall Street Journal reported in May that “Rahm wants it” has become an unofficial mantra in the Department. It is therefore of grave concern that the New York Times reports the Treasury is negotiating to increase their commitment to Fannie and Freddie, in the absence of independent oversight: “Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which buy and resell mortgages, have used $112 billion — including $15 billion for Fannie in November — of a total $400 billion pledge from the Treasury. Now, according to people close to the talks, officials are discussing the possibility of increasing that commitment, possibly to $400 billion for each company, by year-end, after which the Treasury would need Congressional approval to extend it. Company and government officials declined to comment.”




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Oh. My. Popcorn stock just skyrocketed.
I can just see all the heads exploding over at The Great Orange Satan now!! ;-)
Awesome. More and more, please.
I think MY head just assploded.
Grover Norquist?!!
Thud.
strange bedfellows, etc. !
Politics makes strange bedfellows. Regardless of Mr. Norquist’s reputation as a right-wing stooge and hatemonger, I can see no flaw in the reasoning outlined in the letter above. It seems pretty clear-cut to me that this is another example of the rich and amoral squeezing the American taxpayer for another trillion-dollar “bonus”. Best of luck to you both.
Let’s rumble.
I love anyone who can bring down Emanuel
I think you’ve got giant brass balls. And I love it.
When life hands you shit, make a shitstorm.
What’s next Jane? A blue dress that never made it to the dry cleaners?
This has been another episode of
“The enemy of my enemy is my….”
Bravo!
and brilliant!
don’t you mean giant brass ovaries?
Grover (choke) Norquist (gasp)?
Ho-Kay. Strange Bedfellows indeed.
But then Rahm is a worthy cause to unite against
HOw about having citizens sign on to this effort? Count me in.
Way to go, Jane! We have to work with rightwingers in areas where we agree. This Dem vs. Republican stuff has got to stop.
awesome, if a little weird to see Norquist and Jane on the same page.
O/T: jane, did you get my email on drunk max?
oh man, the kossacks going to. lose. their. shit.
Hell, while yer at it, smack him for NAFTA too.
oh. my. is it hot in here or WHAT?
[fans face]
Jane thank you for continuing to be a thorn in the side of the establishment!!!!!
“too compromised to be the gatekeeper” – I love it.
It’s a brand new day. Go, Jane!
Bestest Xmas present ever. Hell, I’ll take this over the pony ORahma promised me…
Fuck it, this needs to be done. I got your back. As Teddy said, “Let’s rumble”.
I am all in favor of bringing down that crook Rahm, but you need Norquist to help?
I didn’t think you were into the bipartisan nonsense Jane, or is this another middle finger to your critics!
war
Jane, this is dynamite. The Wall Street boyz have been pitting right against left for too long. There’s a third way: the people vs. the corporations. MORE OF THIS, PLEASE. This can change the country.
accomplice? I dunno. I just had my own case of head-explody over here… does the term “cautiously exuberant” make any sense?
I’d love to see Rahm go; just hope it’s worth the cost of making Norquist a giant-killer.
it’s the antithesis of mushy middle-of-the-road bipartisanship.
“Establishment Washington, we’ve got you surrounded. Come out with your hands up!”
Yep. You’ve done it this time, Jane.
So were the Clintons and Robert Rubin
“Office of Public Integrity” is an oxymoron where the Justice Department is concerned. I applaud the effort and wish you the best of luck, but you don’t seriously believe they intend to take any action given their abysmal record so far? This is the office that failed to investigate allegations against torture enablers like Jay Bybee and John Yoo. I seriously doubt they will be motivated to investigate Emanuel’s actions.
Count me in, too. Stripped of Rahm, Obama will be forced to show that Rahm has merely been doing his bidding on the rest of the shit Rahm has been foisting on us.
Great letter, Jane!
Strange bedfellows indeed.
You do have Great Big Brass Balls. Wow. You go.
Count all the change in your purse before you leave Norquist’s presence, Jane. He is slimy and sticky; don’t trust him.
Good idea.
Jane, put up a petition and ask Norquist (still can’t stand the guy) to do the same from the Right. Double team these MoFo’s.
Jane Hamsher you gangsta !
free range bitchez!
Help get the word out, give this an up-vote over at reddit!
I just have to comment again. This makes me so happy. The establishment has no weapon to use against the PEOPLE. Both parties are corporate shills. Working with our “enemies” like this, on specifically targeted issues, is the beginning of the end of what ails us.
Sign me the hell UP…
ok.
Let’s see how it plays out. I am curious.
Excellent. Be weary of administration backlash post facto. I can see Rahm’s replacement, should such a thing come to pass, being an even bigger prick.
Amen.
You don’t make moral choices based on your allies, you do what you think is right.
Hamsher: I agree that any legit, non-violent approach in the world aimed at getting rid of Rahm is a good approach. I’ve hated the guy since his corrupt Congressional days, and I was nauseated by his White House appointment. Since then, he has, sadly, failed to surprise anyone who ever paid attention to him in anyway. Let Operation Nuke Rahm commence!
*digging in closet for body armour*
Get some.
Great Work Jane.
Finally the left and right are attacking the real enemies!
I can hear Rahm now! along with Bush and Obama
we must keep them divided! they must never know that we hate the idea of Govt. By the People, For The People.
this will probably scare a lot of spineless Dems and Reps.
WOW!!!
I wonder how Gibby is going to handle this – spinning is hard work. I surely would not want Jane targeting me.
While the body armor may be good, the truth (and a sharp keyboard wielded by Jane and her allies) serves as both our defense and offense. It is all that we need.
Now you’ve done it.
Is such a thing possible? A bigger prick than “deadfish?”
I assume there is some grand plan behind this or maybe we just don’t have any other cards to play. But just what does the Devil want in return for his help?
Wow.
Just wow.
LMAO! What’s a mainstream media to do?
Still for the record I back this play. We need to show Rahm we can bite:)
Spinning this one is going to be a more than a little bit difficult, especially if and when it catches fire. Go Jane! Here’s hoping you’ve got more ordnance where this came from.
Brain bleach, please.
Jesus. You didn’t have to shake Norquist’s hand or anything, did you?
What’s that lit quote? Something like — “ah to be at FDL now that war is here.”
Jane’s up on MSNBC right now
You might find this interesting. The date…
http://www.market-ticker.org/archives/732-TEA-PARTY-February-1st.html
Great community organizing often requires letting someone else – even someone rather odious – get the credit. Nothing wrong with that. It’s the result that matters.
Jane, all week long you have demonstrated a genius’ talent for political street warfare.
I love it.
now if only we can get a republican to climb on board against the bush war crimes, I THINK we might be able to join a movement of impeachment against obama for perpetuating those very same war crimes
Grover does realize that he does have allot more in common with Rahm than Jane right? Grover realizes that if we can stop Obama from giving in to the GOP on everything then the only things that get passed into law our our ideas?
Why does Jane’s smile at the top of this post seem to be growing?
I am immensely saddened by this move. It seems like radicalizing in either direction may become the new ‘in’ thing to do. With memories of the sad failures of the 60s in my mind, where our revolutionary rhetoric was smoothly claimed by Reagan in his rise to power (“Get the government off our backs”) this move seems to me to indicate a peculiar trait in our American political culture. I really do begin to fear for the future now–failed ‘revolutions’ almost always become fascisms.
this morning, jane wrote;
to which I asked;
and now I have the answer…ahhh chess, tiz a remarkable game that
The enemy of my enemy is my friend? I need a shower.
Yeah, we mustn’t rock that boat that is busily taking our money over to the have-mores. It might cost them a penny or two.
Sheesh….
Have not read comments, just the post.
Wow.
And I don’t mean Norquist, I mean WOW, calling out Rahm and the WH to the Att. Gen!!!!!
Wow, this is some heavy shit . . . . this is the kind of stuff that starts people looking REAL hard at folks.
This is where I would stop flying in small planes, if I did . . . that’s how heavy this seems to me.
I’m speechless, will recover later today . . . . wow, this is really, really fuckin big.
Wow.
This has been the best two days I’ve seen in a long time. There is a Santa Claus!!
Hey, if Obama can hang with conservatives like Judd Gregg and nominate conservatives to the Legal Services Board, Jane can make an alliance with one of the few guys Obama might actually fear. Since Obama doesn’t listen much to the lefties, maybe he’ll listen now that a prominent righty is involved.
And besides, if Rahm is innocent, he has nothing to fear from a complete and thorough investigation into his dealings with Freddie Mac.
There is no way Holder will investigate Obama’s chief of staff. Much as I love it, SIN’T GONNA HAPPEN in our lifetimes. After all this bru haha over hcr, haven’t we at least learned it’s the good old boys club?
Rahm is a thug but he’s Obama’s thug.
Go Gal Go! I am so delighted to be associated in anyway. I am Dav and as such don’t have money to contribute. But I can ask that this letter be a Holiday Cheers card to America. We need it. These crimes are just the tip of his criminal involvement in many schemes. FireDogLake has become my anchor with reality. Peace to all, that will allow it.
And since Holder doesn’t like to investigate law-breaking, we just might shine a few Klieg lights his way.
I agree but getting Rahm is worth a dozen showers. Grover is only dangerous to us again if we let Rahm keep on discrediting all Democrats with his constant surrenders to the GOP on the issues.
And besides, if Rahm is innocent, he has nothing to fear from a complete and thorough investigation into his dealings with Freddie Mac.
Bingo. So how long before we hear that “Executive Privilege” bullshit?
Strange bathtub-fellows.
Crooks are crooks, no matter if they have “R”s or “D”s after their names.
We heartily approved of Blago’s and Jefferson’s going down for the count. If we are to be the ethical people we claim to be, we need to let the chips fall where they may and to root out corruption where we find it.
With memories of the sad failures of the 60s in my mind.
I always thought it was because most had thought they had won the battle and then were lulled to sleep. Maybe it time to wake up and take back the ideas that this country can work and care for it’s people.
Thanks Jane and yes strange bedfellows indeed.
Buck: thanks for your service. The petition is now up, so we all can sign on to back Jane’s efforts: http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/investigaterahm
I saw that question. Left it for someone more in the know to answer. Now we know!
Thank you!
All I want for Christmas is Rahm’s two front teeth [edited by mod] his corrupt little skull.
Since I cannot have that, Jane, I am going close my eyes and imagine you dressed in a skimpy Santa suit with knee high boots delivering this letter to the White House in scroll form, [edited by mod].
….And to all a good night!
[Modnote: violent imagery and threats are verboten, thank you]
I agree completely. I’m way over that whole “D vs R” thing. A gangster is a gangster…
Best. Comment. Ever.!
LooseHeadProps gots the dirt on Holder and an American company paying protection money to terror groups that torture. Plus I think he has a funny Clinton era pardon or two to explain.
Anyone know what sort of media attention this is getting elsewhere?
Setting aside criminal things it must be understood that FNM and the GSEs were the foundation of the housing bubble which was really the mortgage bubble which was really a systematic credit bubble. For the GSE’s institutionalized the securitization of debt. This was and isn’t an evil in itself but to say the least it got waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of hand. An important part of this story is that Greenspan helped encourage this new avenue of credit expansion while being separate from it since this credit engine was outside the banking system. It is a very complex story.
The other very important thing to know is that the GSE’s were the baby of the Democratic congress, particularly Barney Frank. All Barney’s great work in so many other areas cannot begin to make up for the part he played and still plays in the financialization of the world.
What’s “radical” about wanting to know where $800 billion dollars is going?
Signed. Thanks JW for all you do . .
Dam right!
Remember the rallying cry of Watergate? “It’s not the crime, it’s the cover-up!”
We may or may not be able to prosecute the crimes, if any — but the cover-up attempts are of much more recent vintage.
I had a really bad weekend trying to figure all this out. Didn’t go to sleep Friday night… till 7am Saturday morning! Wrote this diary instead of sleeping. Now I’m sorry I ever doubted Jane Hamsher. The best two days, indeed!
JANE YOU GO GIRL!!!!!
An important part of this story is that
GreenspanMr. Andrea Mitchell helped encourage this new avenue of credit expansion…Fixed it.
Before you say it, I’ll just admit again that you were right!
Nice. Very.
I say whatever it takes to bring down that smirking fuck Emanuel.
His smugness turns my stomach… not to mention fucking filling congress with democrats in name only to vote for his transparently neoliberal bullshit.
That Obama chose THIS man and is apparently following him, or holding hands with him, over a cliff also makes me sick.
Bastards.
Please be sure to sign the petition:
http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/investigaterahm
Will this action be construed by PTB as an attack on AIPAC, as Rahm is their full stooge?
Cuz that’s dangerous shit to cross . . any one worried, at first reaction as I am, to this?
Worried about the blowback on Mz. Hamsher from the PTB?
I gotta go shopping, get some air, clear my head.
Wow, just fucking wow.
Right, *gulp* ON Mz. Hamsher!
Great going Jane!!
You do realize that Rahm is all set to send his flying monkeys out after you?
I am just wondering how long it will take for John Kerry and Joe Lieberman to attack you on Rahmbama’s behalf.
Exxxxcellent! You are making my day!! LOVE this!!
Not quite. It was the derivatives that turned the housing bubble problem (a less than $2 trillion problem) into an international financial melt down, a $14 or so trillion problem
You might want to read It Takes a Pillage before you go believing those GOP talking points
Helps against stray shots from trolls. Navigating between the cowpies the last few days has been fun but now they’ll be comin’ through the wire everywhere.
Good move, Jane. Leave no stone unturned. And maybe flush out a sleazy lizard while you’re at it.
we’re soaking in it.
Oh… and I guess there’s no point in reading le Orangerie anymore… as someone said upthread, they will never be able to understand this strategy…
they will just say Jane is criticizing their beloved Obama over and over and over.
That dk has been given over to that ilk is disgusting… of course, the median age is probably 14… maybe they’ll grow out of it.
Yep, I’ve been toying with something like this for awhile… mostly after a couple glasses of wine or at 3am when my courage is up. Glad to see somebody with some guts. For myself, I may need to go take a nerve pill..don’t know how much excitement I can stand in one week.
Ready…aim…the trigger option is still alive.
I wish people — Jane included — would get this riled up over the statute of llimitations expiring on torture and conspiracy to torture people as they seem to do over financial issues. The eight-year SOL on the torture statute will begin expiring in 2010 for torture committed in 2002.
And note that the first of those DINO’s has already changed to R. Look for many to follow. Good riddance, I say.
It’s about fucking time!
Mymy?
What happen in the 60s?
The powers that be learned a lot from the 60s.
First control the information, thus the invention of the MSM.(CORPORATE NEWS, Walter Cronkite could not exist today)
To control people, you must control what they know and you must control the definition of all issues. (the key is to make an issue right or left, never a corporate issue)
The 60s scared all the elites in the USA, to the point that Reagan attack the Unions, and Clinton came up with NAFTA.
What the 60s had and what we don’t have today are Jobs and Good Jobs.
The USA was an economica super power in the 60s, now it is not.
Once you take Hope from a people who know Hope, you end up with little Chaos.
The elites know that all the numbers ARE RED! You don’t give all the good JOBS away to CHINA, and hope except a low standard of life.
Don’t be fool, this is not a left or right fight, this is a demand from the USA citizens that they want their country back. At least they want Congress People that represent the issues of the People and not Corporations.
QUOTE FROM THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES SAYS HOW PEOPLE FEEL TODAY!
Don’t Piss on Back and tell me it is RAINING!
wrt flying monkeys and other assorted Rahminites – how much longer before we hear attacks on her personal life and sexuality ??
- she’s a woman, it’s what they do
Agreed! IMHO, DINOs are a greater obstruction to the cause than are Republicans.
You’re both right.
You gotta choose your battles… can’t fight/win them all…
But bringing the preening prick Emanuel down would be the best Christmas present I could ever get… even if it’s next Christmas!
They’ll start asking politicians and other public figured who have participated at FDL to disavow her.
I think it is outrageous that you’ve signed on to a letter on any subject with Grover Norquist and lent him your legitimacy. Norquist is not within the boundaries of acceptable political debate, yet you’ve put him there. I’m dumbfounded, and appalled.
Does the letter actually say “of potentially malfeasance” ?
It’s not up at Kos yet. Can’t wait for that storm.
Mymy?
What happen in the 60s?
The powers that be learned a lot from the 60s.
First control the information, thus the invention of the MSM.(CORPORATE NEWS, Walter Cronkite could not exist today)
To control people, you must control what they know and you must control the definition of all issues. (the key is to make an issue right or left, never a corporate issue)
The 60s scared all the elites in the USA, to the point that Reagan attack the Unions, and Clinton came up with NAFTA.
What the 60s had and what we don’t have today are Jobs and Good Jobs.
The USA was an economica super power in the 60s, now it is not.
Once you take Hope from a people who know Hope, you end up with little Chaos.
The elites know that all the numbers ARE RED! You don’t give all the good JOBS away to CHINA, and hope except a low standard of life.
Don’t be fool, this is not a left or right fight, this is a demand from the USA citizens that they want their country back. At least they want Congress People that represent the issues of the People and not Corporations.
QUOTE FROM THE OUTLAW JOSEY WALES SAYS HOW PEOPLE FEEL TODAY!
Don’t Piss on my Back and tell me it is RAINING!
WOW! i’ve been thinking about this kind of action since the summer. people vs politicians and their hired help since summer. congrats for lighting the fuse, Jane.
So is Norquist against HCR because mandates are just a tax increase by another name?
You never know what kind of pressure this puts on the AG. This is a multi-pronged attack.
Between this and other initiatives, Jane and Firedoglake have effectively denied the Dems any ability to declare a “W” that they do not deserve. Good. They should have thought twice before selling out, covering up, and enabling corporatist faux-Democratic a$$holes.
For a little context, consider how long it took American companies to take seriously their Japanese and now Chinese competitors. They grabbed market share, remade industries and bought out their US competitors. Former American television or white goods manufacturers are two examples.
Then a few of American businesses did something surprising. Photographic film, for example, used to be as commonplace as Mr. Obama claiming that he was fulfilling 95% of his campaign promises. Japan’s Fuji Film was a dominant competitor, taking market share from Germany’s Agfa and the once giant Rochester, NY, based Kodak. Fuji’s marketing was creative: its multi-colored blimp appeared over American cities more often than Goodyear’s.
Kodak finally got wise. A new blimp in Kodak colors started flying over Fuji’s Tokyo headquarters. Fuji scrambled to retrieve its blimp from a planned marketing tour in the US, to defend its own marketing skies.
Programs such as Jane’s novel cooperation with anti-tax crusader for the rich Grover Norquist – not normally an ally of progressives – is flying the progressive blimp over the White House and it’s too cozy attitude toward past crimes and questionable deals among Village players. It is a creative example of the kinds of functional cooperation we’ll need to reframe politics as a fight between insider-haves and outsider-have nots, instead of one between left and right.
Thank you, Ms. Jane. How rude of you to upset the Village applecart.
You Fire Dog Losers Don’t Have a Clue
Listen to Obama and He’ll Get us Through
When You’re Down on Tom Harkin You Know You’re Wrong
Some of You are Neo-Cons with their Siren Song
So it’s Health Care for Christmas and you folks are Scrooge
With Immigration for Next Year! The Barack express is Coming Through!
It’d be nice to drop the “brass balls” crap with its lingering sexist connotations and simply acknowledge that the woman just brought out a rocket launcher at what Obama intended to be yet another backstabbing of the American people.
… now if you’d want to talk about a spine made of steel I’d have no problem with that… 8D
I took a look at Grover’s website. Someone there made an interesting observation about this crappy bill. Basically, his strategy is to encourage all healthy people to drop their insurance and pay the fine. If you get sick, then you just go get insurance. This will bankrupt the insurance companies pretty quickly. Remember, the fine is never going to be exceed the cost of insurance.
I’m not in the least shocked or dismayed by this alliance with Norquist. Where the right and the left can agree on any issue– importation of prescription drugs comes to mind– we should work together. That’s how we’ll beat the corporate special interests and a corrupt Congress. Once we’ve beaten the Health Insurance Bailout Bill, we can retire to our respective corners and resume the argument over the scope of government, taxation, etc. But for now, I agree with the sentiment that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
There’s absolutely no doubt that they are… Dems don’t have a majority…
that the MSM keeps touting that is laughable… just another way to make Dems looks stupid… which is really not that hard anyway.
The Repubs have clearly infiltrated the Dem party… thanks to the help of Raaaaahhhhhhm.
Agreed. Rahm isn’t the problem with the White House, he’s just the most visible symptom. He’s there for a reason, and it’s not because the President wants to be inclusive.
Jane,
Just saw you on MSNBC with David Shuster and the guy from the Weekly Standard.
I am so happy you and Grover Norquist filed that with Eric Holder. In my opinion, Rahm Emanuel is an enemy of the people here. He is a scoundrel who most definitely has a criminal mindset. I was onto this Emanuel guy a long time ago myself.
Jane, I support you 100% in your endeavors. Keep up the good work!
Politics makes strange bedfellows. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. There is absolutely nothing wrong with making short term strategic alliances with those you would otherwise want to hit in the head with a 2×4.
“Letter to a Sincere Leftist”
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1209/tracinski122309.php3
Jane –
You’re fantastic, one of the few true heroes we have today.
I’ve noticed all the various times you post (like before 6:00 a.m. and after midnight) and I just wondered: Do you ever sleep? If not, how do you do it? Even outrage as a motivator has got to run out of gas at some point. Doesn’t it?
Here we go
Peasants think it’s radical to question their “betters,” the feudal lords.
I’m Not A Peasant.
Stand up, people, act like fucking CITIZENS.
Guessing you haven’t read the bill.
Great post earl…
So be it. Jane Hamsher has a spine of steel. Too bad Obama doesn’t. Maybe, just maybe, some day we can be talking about a President Hamsher, while we’re at it.
jackstraw, I don’t think you fully understand Norquist… he is a full on fascist, dedicated to the power of corporations and to destroying the federal government. The fact that we on the left might find a small point of agreement is not reason to ally with him or legitimize him. It’s really incredibly naive. It’s like allying with the Klan or the Nazis. He is that bad.
Oh yeah. I think this snowball is starting to roll. I could be wrong (there’s a first time for everything), but I think the Attorney General has the authority to revoke corporate charters. Something that extreme doesn’t have to crash the economy if investors jump on the green economy quickly. I can’t believe intelligent people haven’t already. A hundred years ago wagon makers, wheelwrights, farriers had no choice with the advent of the automobile.
It’s not the credit I’m worried about, it’s the enhanced credibility and power for someone who’s tied into powerfully monied interests and who holds views that are antithetical to views that I happen to hold.
Jane may achieve this goal and I’m thrilled to see power being challenged but in this case I’m concerned about the blowback.
This is one of the most intelligent and inspiring development in American politics that I’ve seen for years and years. And, no, I’m not exaggerating. Movements always start small. There’s no single moment or act. But this act is going to be remembered. It will stand out.
It’s too bad that Jane allied herself with Norquist, but Emanuel has no grounds for criticizing the making of common cause with assholes. Go after him like a starving pit bull, says I.
I signed the petition, but: What is Grover’s ulterior motive for doing this? If it is just to bring down the Obama administration and install one of his own [and Glenn's own] liking, does the baby get thrown out with the bathwater if this prevails?
Personally, I’d feel more comfortable dislodging the Gang of Four [Obama, Emanuel, Geithner and Summers] if we had a progressive challenger for the 2012 Democratic nomination more firmly lined up.
Nothing in my view is worse than the Republicans back in power. So I am always ambivilant about folks who want to “get back” at Obama for his betrayals. I’m certainly not suggesting this of Jane here, but there are those who could manipulate something like this for precisely that reason.
Getting rid of the Bilderberg corporatists only to replace them with neocovservative Palinista corporatists is a frightening prospect, however bitter I feel about the Obama administration now.
Power to the people! I think the letter is a great idea. What would scare national politicians more than to see that the people of the Right & Left are joining forces to say enough is enough with the bailouts and the valuing of corporate interests above the rights of the people? We want our representative democracy restored.
awesome!
The Honorable Louise Slaughter (D – NY 28th) has written a guest comment at CNN.com “A Democrat’s View from the House: Senate Bill Isn’t Health Reform.”
Ms. Slaughter is the Chair of the House Rules Committee.
We should show her some love, show her that we’ve got her back,… maybe start a Blue America campaign for her re-election and show other members that it’s safe to stand up for genuine reform.
I’ve repeatedly railed at the fact that many of these issues have been defined in the press as “liberal” issues. To my way of thinking, fighting government corruption and defending basic freedoms are American issues, not lefty ones. If Grover Norquist wants to join with us in fighting something that needs to be fought, more power to him.
I can see the hand-wringing at some places now, of course – “Hamsher Goes Off The Rails, Consorts With Great Neocon Satan”, etc. There are plenty of us, though, who are glad to see this sort of thing.
It’s always a good thing to keep your enemy off balance and this works very well IMO. The Dems are going to be getting nervous and the wingers are really going to be scratching their heads saying “hey, maybe they’re not so bad….”
Hehe, you think? I predict another week of “Jane=Hilter” diaries over there ;)
Really, Jane? Norquist? Leaving aside for a few moments whatever sleazy shit Rahm may have gotten up to (he’s a politician, so anything short of roasting live babies wouldn’t shock me), you do realize who, and what, you’re in bed with now, right? Several folks upthread trotted out the old trope “The enemy of my enemy is my friend”, I see. Well, yeah, sometimes. Sometimes the enemy of your enemy is just an enemy, one who’s decided that your enemy is more of a threat to them than you are, and is happy to have your help bringing them down. Jane, I love you. You’re tough and smart (and you have cool hair), but I hope for your sake that you’ve got the belly for this ride, ’cause it’s not gonna be pretty.
I’m sorry, but I can’t sign your petition. I know you won’t take it personally. Watch your back around your new friends. They hate you and what you stand for only slightly less than they do Pres. Obama, and given half a chance they’ll cut your throat (metaphorically, of course), and hang you out to dry with him.
Lotsa luck angel,
Kordo
fuckin right it is. Same shit as Ho Ho Ho Chi Mihn, the NLF is gonna win.
good luck with this
This is an indirect attack on weak DEMS.
If weak Dems and we know they are weak, thinks Obama is a negative, they will abandon him rapidly.
Plus the white house, can’t attack the left, and the last thing they want to do is to make FDL or any other Progressive Group an equal player or worthy of the discussion around the table. (Obama does want to get re-elected, I can see David Axelrod developing a plan to attack his BASE. Other Dems in the Senate and House would attack the White House rapidly.
This is going to make Rahm and the White House have to work a little harder to get weak dems on board with HCR.
Holder can, but never will go after Rahm
Greatest thing about all the NOISE the left is making, is that they are making HCR a no man land for politicians. Politicians like for people to cheer for them once they do something, who is going cheer for HCR??
I guess Obama and Rahm will have to lead the cheerleading parade for HCR all by themselves.
Guessing you haven’t read the bill.
Nor the most damning critiques. The Senate, if I’m reading things right, deliberately removed the enforcement provisions from the House bill that they based the current Senate bill on. All those prohibitions against discriminating against preexisting conditions, the medical loss ratio cap, and the limits on rescisions (such as they are) are meaningless. You owe money to the insurance company – that’s the only part of that deal that will be enforced.
Sorry, that’s a bridge too far for me. Count me out.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Rahm Emanuel is a poisonous little Machiavelli wanna-be, and it would do the country a lot of good to ship him out of DC.
But I wouldn’t want to breathe the same air as Grover fucking Norquist, much less sign on to work with him on ANYTHING. He’s a dangerous disreputable kook.
I think you’re a brave and diligent warrior, Jane, but you align yourself with people like that and you’re gonna lose more than you gain. Don’t kid yourself, it’s a Faustian Bargain, and the rent will come due eventually.
Not good.
Oohh to see Rahm behind bars… what a Christmas present.
thanks, Jane…
I don’t think Norquist is as naive as you suggest. Jane’s alliance with this neo-fascist is a stroke of brilliance and will only hold until the goal is accomplished, holding Rahm accountable.
This is one of the most important steps in American political action in this century. Finding and acting on the common cause we share as Americans will shock the dominant paradigm: the one the Corps use to keep the people down.
We don’t have to agree with Grover Norquist about much of anything, but if we agree with him on the utter corruption of Rahm Emanuel, let’s use each other to get rid of Rahm. His influence on America must come to an end. He is ruining the Obama presidency.
Wikipedia informs us accurately that this is what Norquist is about…
“Norquist has been noted for his widely quoted quip: “I don’t want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.”[25] Norquist favors the elimination of numerous federal organizations including the Internal Revenue Service, the Food and Drug Administration, Education Department and the National Endowment for the Arts.[10]
He has also stated, “Cutting the government in half in one generation is both an ambitious and reasonable goal. If we work hard we will accomplish this and more by 2025. Then the conservative movement can set a new goal. I have a recommendation: To cut government in half again by 2050″.[26] The Americans for Tax Reform mission statement is “The government’s power to control one’s life derives from its power to tax. We believe that power should be minimized.”[27]”
These are not mere differences of opinion about which reasonable people can disagree. These are the outline of the backbone of political evil.
I hear you. Norquist brings big guns to this fight — namely, the billionaires who love his ‘starve the beast’ philosophy. They will be all too happy to inflict damage on a Democratic administration (and I know most here make no distinction anymore between the two parties, but I think there are those who still do.)
But once he proves he can bag someone like Emanuel, I imagine those guns will be trained directly on things/people that you and I might not want brought down.
Didn’t Stalin use the same tactic?
And yet, Norquist is treated as though he deserves respect by the DC establishment. That’s how bad things are there.
Merci Jane. Amazing two days.
Or until Rahm becomes so toxic that Obama has to fire him.
Bingo!
Maybe Jane=Molotov would be more appropriate.
Given the Obama brand of health care “reform”, here is a prediction of what his immigration “reform” will look like:
1]
Every corporation will submit a list of how many immigrants they will need to achieve the most production for the least amount of wages and benefits
2]
These will be added up and exactly that amount of immigrants will be given legal status
3]
Then, as corporations need more labor, new immigrants will be allowed to become citizens
The big fight between the Blue Dog Democrats and the run of the mill corporatist Democrats will revolve around legal status if the new citizens quit their jobs. The Blue Dogs will want their citizenship stripped and have them thrown in jail, and the others will just have them stripped of their citizenship and deported out of the country.
Chip Shirley
Cute poem, I guess, you work on it with SEN. BURRIS? smile
What is the difference between taking a walk and being a leader?
Answer: a leader has followers.
Remember
Men Lie
Women Lie
NUMBER DON’T LIE!
if Obama Poll numbers keep falling, he is going to end up taking a WALK!
Happy Holidays!
Jane, you continue to amaze! Go get ‘em!
If interest in the truth makes strange bedfellows, so be it.
Making common cause with an enemy against a shared enemy is one of the oldest tactics on Earth. It’s kind of silly to bring out these doddering old dictators from the mid-twentieth …
This is so wrong. You are taking this fight way too far. Grover Nordquist. Are you crazy. He will turn on a dime and laugh in Firedoglakes face and all other liberals.
Let the Democratic investigations begin in cahoots with our own side.
You are going to regret this.
Democrats really do eat there owm.
Friday Girl
It will be soon…. Joe Beese actually wrote a great diary on the letter… saying he didn’t know if the claims against Rahm were true… but that commenters could provide proof to the otherwise…
Of course all they’re doing is piling on Jane. It’s actually funny… it’ll be on the rec list soon I’m sure as the Obamabots twitter each other…
Time for some popcorn!
Aligning with Norquist is going to shine a light on him, also. Of course he’s a crazy fuck, but given enough sunshine, the sensible people out there may well recognize him for what he is, too – and the truth will out. In the meantime, Rahm gets taken down. What’s wrong with that? I’m for more information, not less. I’m also for shaking up a game and a process that is completely ossified.
The rules are changing.
Exactly.
Jane couldn’t find 1 progressive to back her play?
I don’t understand.
Seconded.
W E…J U S T…H I T…T H E…6 0…W E…N E E D….
T H E…F I N A L…V O T E…I S…S E T…F O R…7 A M
Yay! I’m so happy that I don’t mind that FDL is a phony propaganda neo-con front site!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And FDL censors all my comments! But I have the computer records to prove it and I’m gonn bring this phony neo=con site to its knees!!!!!!
Go Jane! Show them how it’s done.
Why’s that if it’s such a old tactic? Pigs like this motherfucker will cut your nuts (or the equivalent) in a heartbeat.
Right. Shiny new dictators for today
Yep, best. Comment. Ever.
Oh, my. Jane, I love when you go all bipartisan!
he is incredibly well connected and a veteran of beltway dynamics – he knows all kinds of levers to pull, trap doors, side doors, etc. all of which will prove handy down the road
geesh, can’t believe I just said something almost complimentary ’bout ol hotube Gover
In response to Oregon @ 162
The U.S. worked together with the politically evil Stalin to bring down Hitler.
I hear your mama callin’ ya.
Excellent work Jane. I will continue to send you good energy
Ever wonder HOW the Obama’s Administration can produce its own commericials/infomericals so readily and its media campaign?
Answer: Ari Emanuel—Rahm’s brother!!!
Ari Emanuel doesn’t get much press, but, due to him, Rahm Emanuel was able to raise $72 million dollars for Bill Clinton.
I do have a problem here though. How reliable is the Huffington Post? I mean Arianna Huffington has associations with the Emanuel family. From my sources, it is apparent that Arianna Huffington has been involved in Americans for Fuel Efficient Cars of which Ari Emanuel is the co-founder. Yes, Ari Emanuel is the co-founder of Americans for Fuel Efficient Cars which is directly connected to not only Laurie David, Lawrence Bender, (the Producer of AL GORE’s “An Inconvenient Truth”) but also Mrs. Huffington who heads the Huffington Post. So, can the Huffington Post be trusted regarding Rahm Emanuel? I mean the Huffington Post has allowed Ezekiel Emanuel to run his anti-Medicare articles on their site which helped to promote this awful healthcare bill to begin with. No, I don’t trust the Huffington Post and have always questioned Arinna’s integrity and honesty. I do not think Arianna Huffington is trustworthy at all.
I applaud Jane though and have no reason to doubt what she is doing.
Let’s take a deeper look at Ari Emanuel here.
In 2002, Ari Emanuel was sued by some of his Endeavor employees who alleged he allowed a friend to operate a pornographic website out of Endeavor’s offices, a suit that was settled for $2.25 million.
Connections of Ari Emanuel:
Ezekiel Emanuel – brother
Rahm I. Emanuel – brother
Michael Moore – agent
Aaron Sorkin – client
Steve Tompkins – client
Mark Wahlberg – client
Bradley Whitford – client
Other current Ari Emanuel relationships:
American Film Institute – trustee
Americans for Fuel Efficient Cars – co-founder
Ari Gold – inspiration for Endeavor Agency LLC – partner
Live Nation – director
William Morris Endeavor Entertainment – co-CEO, co-CEO & director
Media Rights Capital – investor
Ari Emanuel past relationships:
2008 Barack Obama presidential campaign – fundraiser
International Creative Management, Inc. – agent
A little family pressure couldn’t hurt. Isn’t Rahmbo’s brother a huge Hollywood agent? Maybe we could all decide his clients movies just ain’t that good.
Snarky question: When will Grover realize he’s being used?
There is likely to be a little bit of Bush administration dirty laundry that pops up in this investigation as well.
Are you saying that one Jane is just like another?
Parker Griffin defected from the Democratic Party because Rahm is forcing people to vote for this bill that includes backroom deals for PhRMA and big insurance. They know they’ll never survive, so they flee.
He is destroying not only the Democratic majority but the Democratic party.
Believe me, nobody thought we’d won in the 60s. The war, the rise of a succession of repressive Republican presidents (Nixon came from the 60s, remember)…everyone was pretty demoralized by the realization that we were a nation that contained so many vile elements and hopeless, not hopeful, about improving things. Democrats defected from Hubert Humphrey, Nixon won and set about systematically dismantling much of what was decent in our governing policies. He was called a ‘genius’ by Republicans, who had to flinch a bit from Watergate, but came roaring back with their copycat ‘radical’ Ronnie Reagan. The Republicans, who have zero originality, will benefit from this agitation, and will grab whatever the left serves up to adopt as their own stance and rhetoric, even though they have completely different goals in view. Sorry, but this is a big mistake.
Fonda got sandbagged by Charlie and she’ll go to her grave regretting it. I sure hope this isn’t the case for “our” Jane.
The articles I’ve read by Ari Emanuel at HuffPo all seemed quite reasonable. So he may be a better person than his brother.
Thirded.
Two people with opposite political views agreeing on an issue startles us and brings much more attention to this issue than it ever would have gotten if Progressives (whom Rahm dismisses anyways) had acted alone.
Woke me up!
It’s brilliant.
Running with your analysis, the progressives lost in the 1960s by trying. So the progressives should stop trying. Brilliant 11-dimension chess.
Count on my support. If you follow the trouble we as Democrats are having, it all starts with selfish, bad advice coming from Rahm. He seems to get a kick out of screwing the public while hiding behind the President. He needs to be taken down a few notches
This is up at Huff Post now.
I’m snowbound in Virginia, ya’ll work this shit out.
Color me disgusted by what Jane Hamsher and some others on the left are doing. Please take me off the FDL and ActBlue mailing lists. Those days are over.
..and perhaps not even a 2 trillion problem. the entire subprime market is only about 1.3 trillion by comparison (March 2007):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17584725
2 Trillion would have bought out all the subprime mortages and then some. Maybe only half had to be bought to prevent collapse, so that leaves less than 1 trillion
The total value of all mortgages in mid 2008, was about 11 trillion:
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/Current/z1r-4.pdf
So, for the 14 trillion bailout, we could have paid everyone's mortgage with 3-4 Trillion left over..
Fannie and Freddie were not the causes, but their managers weren't about to stop the gravy train either, imo.
Hokey smokes, smoke ‘em out!
you know, I just read through the complaint
it is amazing, here rahm (and possibly obama) is using the office of the presidency to cover up for his crimes
seems to me he is rove and this administration is bush on steroids
Go Jane Go!
Thanks Jane you were great! Keep up the valiant work and remember the FirePups have your back ALWAYS…
Happy Holidays Jane may the New Year be Kind to you and all good Americans who care about their fellow man.
My whole approach is always aimed more at geting back at Obama by either pressuring him to backtrack back to his campaign promises or, if that is futile [and it probably is], pressuring him and his Democratic corportist ilk by helping to drive them out of the Party.
Just getting back at him by driving him out per se may be emotionally gratifying but how long will that last if those who make no pretense at all of backing liberal causes and Main Street get back in the White House?
And here I’m talking issues like abortion, stem cell research, gay rights, AIDS funding, separation of church and state, capital punishment, Supreme Court and judiciary branch nominees, Internet access, unions, race relations, women’s rights etc etc etc.
The bitterness many feel towards Obama revolves around the gap between expectations and reality. He promised us more roses if not a rose garden in Wshington and all we are getting with respect to economic, health care and foreign policy issues are more BushWorld weeds.
But there is still that gap between Obama and Beck to consider too.
Ditto, just read the complaint… Wow, more criminals in the White House.
The three brothers have always maintained they are an extremely close family, notably during a Charley Rose interview. It’s not possible to believe that the 3 brothers (the other is a medical dr. and outspoken on HC) don’t know exactly what each is doing.
Great video. Calling the exploitation of policy differences (in this case abortion) between right and left “distractions from the real issue” – the looting of the working/middle class by corporations – is excellent. Keep it up!
Better get some spare exclamation point keys, buster, you’re gonna wear out the ones you have on your keyboard.
Jane doesn’t do things on a whim. I’m sure this was carefully thought out. She is way smart enough to know that Grover is not her friend and to use him. It’s a delight to watch.
Hey, instead of stamping your foot and pouting, why don’t you explain to us (and not least Jane) exactly what your beef is? Assuming that it’s something more substantive than “ew cooties”.
Come on, Rahm, we know this is you.
Or do we have to wait for the 20,000,000 missing emails from your office to be exposed one day?
I can’t wait until Jane gets her own column right next to Kathryn Jean Lopez! And who knows, maybe Jane will be the chair for Bachmann’s re-election campaign, and what’s stopping her from jumping on board with Lieberman and John McCain to raise funds, for say, a few more wars! Go Jane, go! You rock. The Right wing dipshits have no one worth reading or listening to on their own bench, so there you are filling in admirably!
When are you going to be on Beck’s show to inform us how Rahm is also murdering puppies to mine their fur to weave into gold bullion? I mean, Hamsher and Beck, sounds like a cheesy 80s cop show, but with Jane on the case, why we’ll finally learn just what was in Al Capone’s vault!
Yes, insults to Dear Leader are just hurtful.
Until you see how much your adoration looks like Bush Do-No-Wrongism.
Stock tip: Put some money in exclamation point manufacturing companies…
agree. And Norquist is the desperate one here. How is his campaign going? Very savvy move by Ms. Hamsher.
what teddy said….
go teddy put them in their place!!!!!!!
oh I got exclamation points also…/s lots of them..
“…getting back at Obama…” Interesting. What, like some kid getting back at his brother for taking his crayons? These people are taking our country down a path most of us don’t like. It’s not about “getting back” at anybody, it’s about taking the country in a different direction. One of the ways to do that is take out those who are driving.
Hopefully this is less than 1/10 of 1% of the shitstorm. As for Emanuel, let’s make sure that he becomes such a distraction that he has to go!
Signed petition, very much appreciate your effort on the endeavor Jane!
Guessing you weren’t around for the FDL efforts to unseat Lieberman.
Fireworks manufacturers might be a better investment.
And once Hitler and the Nazis were gone, what happened to the alliance? It became the Cold War, which cost millions of lives, Stalin’s purges, Vietnam, and the fucking military industrial complex which folks like Norquist are really, really into.
But hey, most of that stuff has more or less blown over now, right?
Again, I’d be very curious to hear how Jane’s gamed out the possible ramifications of this. It may be brilliant and truly revolutionary, or it may be hubristic, shortsighted and pyrrhic. I want to hear more about what happens after.
I’d love to jump up and down and be a true-blue FDL cheerleader (my Hamsher right or wrong!) but ‘the enemy of my enemy’ just sounds to me like more 11-dimensional chess.
Can’t wait to see Tweety’s burbling tonight. With any luck, this will leave him speechless.
Naw, that’s too much to hope for.
Rahm Emanuel is slime….This guy could easily be a Republican with his prowar beliefs….Rahm Emanuel was a prowar guy and I always remember him saying “Jack Murtha speaks for Jack Murtha, not the Democrats.”
Yes, Rahm Emanuel slammed Murtha in 2005 when Jack Murtha thought the Bush policy in Iraq was a flawed one. Who did Rahm Emanuel side with in 2005, Murtha or the Bush administration? Rahm Emanuel sided with the Bush administration regarding Iraq in 2005 and he is now the “peace president’s” Chief of Staff.
Murtha is a military veteran of distinction and here was Emanuel undermining and slamming him out in public view. This is the character of Rahm Emanuel. Emanue is an amoral P.O.S. and I applaud Jane for finally going after this jerk…..
I guess it’s only okay for the Obama administration to play by Machiavellian tactics, but, when someone like Jane Hamssher plays within those same strictures crybabies here want out of FDL and ActBlue…..
I cannot believe how so many idiots still fall for the phony left-right paradigm when the real issue is about class issues and the entire economic structure. Jane is correct to say the elites want people to be distracted with all these other side issues.
CHIP SHIRLEY?
You may be a little slow?
you do know that this is a BLOG?
The question you need to think about is who and what groups are viewing FDL? everyone does not post.
you may be surprise! welcome to the internet
and for your information, FDL is tame compared to other blogs on the internet about this HCR plan.
LOLROFLMAO
What does that leave the left with? A party the media and the rich won’t touch. That’s a LOT of slack to have to make up. Alternative newsweeklies, blogs and individual donations can only go so far.
It would have been so much easier nine years ago when the money was actually there. If only we’d known then that we’d need it…
As we used to say, word ‘em up.
I’m curious, who initiated this rapprochement?
Might result in some spittle on the camera lens. That would be fun.
Jane isn’t getting in bed with Grover Norquist; they aren’t even sharing an apartment. They share a target that has earned the critical spotlight being shined on him, just as progressives claim that Obama should apply the rule of law to his predecessor, even though he was president and his direct reports were following
Cheney’sorders.Ms. Jane is saying the progressive team – and most of America – has given 110% to win one for Obama, the Democrats and the Gipper. Now, in this health care bill and government actions across the board, they are being told they won’t be allowed a ticket into Notre Dame stadium, or be allowed to sit in a pew for five minutes to escape a heatless Indiana winter.
To be sure, Grover Norquist would do anything to twist a Democrat’s tail, bind their knickers, and make any politician admit to infidelity with a moose rather than raise taxes on the wealthy. He’s as nutty about that as any gun nut is about taking weapons to children’s sports events. That must be one reason he’s letting his name be associated with Jane Hamsher’s.
But it’s no longer enough, as Glenn Greenwald keeps saying, to follow and protect Democrats simply because they are Democrats. They have to act like them, too. So far, to use a variation on Stephen Colbert’s term, this administration and this Senate are acting like self-absorbed hermaphropublicans.
A country in dire need of constructive change – and forthright leadership – is being told that whatever Joe Lieberman will agree to must be good for them, or Joe would not have agreed to it (or “vetoed” all else). That’s a leadership that needs to be taken out behind the woodshed for a little clearing of the air, wouldn’t you say?
If Grover Norquist is a useful sorority paddle to use in that exercise, so be it. If we’re lucky, it won’t be the last unusual pairing we see in progressives’ attempts to get Washington and, specifically, the Democratic Party, to remember that voters, not K Street, are their most important asset.
Awww and now Jane is Lieberman’s pal, amirite … kill the bill! kill the bill! why? because Jane Hamsher says so, so kill it already, sheesh, don’t you know that questioning a person of Jane’s stature is like questioning Jesus, don’t you? I mean, Hillary got her ass handed to her, Jane got the sads and hasn’t smiled since. More Jane on Beck action please!
This will be a big blip on Obama’s radar screen.
He seems to be so cavalier in ignoring the peace-loving, thoughtful, equity and social justice-based Americans who propelled him to where he is now. Can he so easily ignore this new federation that he is forcing into creation?
Just remember Jane, when the juggernauts from the DLC come after you: it is Obama who forced this alliance. He has no one else to blame but himself and his fave crony Rahm.
Your pearls are gasping for breath from being clutched so hard.
I’d say Grover knows exactly what he’s doing and that if this is considered mutual abuse, it’s knowing and consensual.
Uh-huh. So let’s pick a financial battle.
Let me guess: Democrat first, progressive third or fourth?
Jane & Grover up in a tree, k-i-…..
L&L&L&L&LOL. On the floor, rolling. Too f***ing good.
Brilliant analyst, activist, agitator. Now you’re a comedienne already?
Don’t you ever sleep, woman?
It’s funny watching that rep guy’s reaction. You spoke with such crystal clarity Jane, very good to see.
Natch.
Agree completely… it is because of Rahm that we are forced to eat shit on the HCR bill… of course Obama is right there with him, but Rahm put many of the players in place to force this neoliberal crap.
Now you’re really asking for the moon. ;-)
I have an old saying for them, don’t let the door hit ya, where the good Lord sits ya…
I hear you? sort of
You do know Rahm Emmanuel is a Clinton Guy
Rahm is the one that said Liberals and Progressives don’t matter.
I know that Hillary and Obama probably would have followed the same path. Why? if you read the find print on HCR, this is Hillary Bill in a lot of ways.
My question to you is what made the HCR issue bigger than Jobs?
Obama received 20 million from Big Health Care. the most of any candidate.
Money not only talks, it SCREAMS!
Let me tell you this little story:
Men Lie!
Women Lie!
NUMBERS DO NOT LIE!
Health Insurance stocks are Soaring!
Good try with the Hillary vs Obama game.
Love the response I’m getting. You all sound like conservocrud with your references to “Dear Leader.” Who exactly are you referring to?
In any case, I agree with those who say and have continued to say that Jane Hamsher has jumped the shark. There is so much that needs to be worked on and she decides to join forces with Grover Norquist? That to me is a sure sign of an attention suck. Not to mention, she’s lost all perspective. She’s just acting out.
Well, as a boomer, I was hoping to see HCR enacted before I left this mortal coil. If Jane Hamsher has her way, that ain’t gonna happen.
This SHOULD be about Corruption NOT Rahm.
You seize on the part of the post that you take as a personal insult and you ignore what he’s actually saying to you. You want to take the country in the direction that you want (and I want, make no mistake) but Norquist wants to go in a WHOLE OTHER FUCKING DIRECTION.
You can take out those who are driving but the guy with the billionaires and the corporations backing him — and I hope you don’t think, as some seem to, that Norquist is any kind of anti-corporate warrior — THAT guy is going to be the new fucking driver.
Now that’s what I call bi-partisan!
You go girl.
Not gonna sign this petition…Grover Norquist is evil writ large. Deals with the devil rarely work out well. I know Jane feels this with a passion that raises my dander as well about the whole freaking debacle. I think it’s a disgrace, and the Senate’s sandbox warfare – “I know you are, but what am I” – makes this country look like the morons we are for having elected these ass-monkeys.
I have never before seen such a display of anti-intellectualism, arrant stupidity, and clownishness all dressed up as “debate.” And the competition from years past is pretty damn fierce. In the end, re HCR, as they say here in good Charleston gullah, “I aint know.”
I signed the petition so I’m on board, but I have qualms about this move. Are we like the frogs demanding a king? Is there any indication that, if we got rid of Rahm, he’d be replaced with anyone we’d like any better? I just hope we’re not jettisoning the “log” king only to end up with a frog-gobbling crane.
Wow. I got onto this thread early and have just been following the comments. I just looked back at the top, and there is a lot of really good supporting information that has been added. For anyone else who hasn’t scrolled back to the top recently, it’s worth a trip.
It’s going to be interesting to see how many of the Rahm-o-crats [the Bue Dogs Rahm funded when he was head of the DCCC in 2006] will suddenly make the switch to “R” like the guy in AL.
They’ve GOT to be fearing that “D” is going to be a pretty polluted brand, and that they ought to get out of Dodge as far in advance of 2010 as possible. The question is whether they’ll collect their money from the DCCC for 2010 before they depart.
Raven, the Repubs and the Clintons and Rubin are the same as Thieu and Ky in the 70s, corrupt. If the means justify the end and the Hamsters are only interested in bringing down Obama or forcing a defeat for Obama on some claim that he’s the same as Bush, we descend in the Hamsters ego trip and Fonda land and it should be stopped.
This is called breaking the mold.
The governing coalition that includes banksters, insuresters and warsters of both parties – and their political pets – is not working for most Americans. If we don’t consider new alliances, shake the system without breaking it, and put unusual and novel pressure on villagers to govern as if the rest of the country depended on how well they do it, we’ll get more of what Bush and Obama have already given us.
Oh, it’s Christmas.
A girl can hope, can’t she.
He’s molting right now. *g*
Not gonna sign either. Those who mention being dissed by Rahm or ignored by Obama have lost sight of the so-called prize.
Guess health care reform was all well and good till your pride got bruised.
Nobody would’ve cared if I’d called for Rahm’s resignation alone.
I met Grover’s wife when I was seated next to her and Seymour Hersh at a J-Street dinner (the one Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand didn’t show up for). She’s a Kuwaiti of Palastinian descent and Grover has battled the right on that issue for years.
A few weeks ago CAF circulated a letter that Grover, Jamie Galbraith, Dean Baker and I all signed against reconfirming Bernanke until there was an audit of the Fed. So when I wanted to pursue this issue and thought it could use some left/right heft cutting through the media noise, I contacted him.
Yes, he’s Grover Norquist. I get it. Believe me, I haven’t been doing this for 5 years without realizing what that means. But that enormous bailout of Fannie & Freddie was going to get jammed through in the next week, and it wasn’t going to stop itself.
The fighter has taking the fight to a higher level.
Way too much money in the collapse and bailouts.
McCain will probably jump on board.
He is on the reform issue again.
That is a question?
Precisely. The danger is seeing evil in people rather than in the institutions.
I don’t see this as a ‘financial battle’…
I see it as a way to force Obama to get rid of Emanuel and for Progressives to have more of a voice across the board.. that would extend to other big issues like torture.
I get it — people who can only interpret politics through personalities won’t know where to file this in their brains. Those who understand “principles before personalities” will probably have an easier time, whether they agree or not.
Jane… Legal Insurrection Has this to say…
YES, YES, Jane is 1000 percent correct.
Rahm apparently “earned” US$30 million in his short stint out of government. Nice work if you can get it.
This article suggests why he was paid that exorbitant sum. It is a classic case of buying the government. It’s far cheaper than paying taxes and accepting legitimate oversight. That’s why the ranks of K Street lobbyists about tripled under Shrub. More than a few of them are back in government, and go in and out of it as opportunity requires – to make money or stifle reform or oversight.
Quote: “Yes, he’s Grover Norquist. I get it. Believe me, I haven’t been doing this for 5 years without realizing what that means. But that enormous bailout of Fannie & Freddie was going to get jammed through in the next week, and it wasn’t going to stop itself.”
Too damn late, Jane. It’s clear to me anyway that your feelings are bruised and you don’t give a damn who gets hurt while you enjoy your tantrum.
I am completely and totally disgusted.
I just wish there would have been similar shared outrage by the left and the right over Iraq, no bid war contracts, absence of WMDs, you know, pretty much the whole W. Bush fiasco. As soon as the rightists get back in power, you know they won’t be calling for any investigations of their own.
Thanks for the background.
I’m for working with whoever on an issue-by-issue basis. As I have typed before, if the anti-war left doesn’t team up with the anti-war right (i.e., libertarians), there is no anti-war movement.
From the comments, this seems like a risky move. We’ll see.
Seems to me that for every pissed off progressive with name recognition,it should be easy to find a pissed off conservative/libertarian. So, there is no reason that the list of demands cannot grow beyond dumping Emanuel and the the initial signatories cannot grow beyond two.
Really, we need to smash the liberal/conservative, NYT/Fox, Democrat/Republican paradigm that the idiots in charge use to destroy this country at the behest of their corporate masters.
Quote: “I get it — people who can only interpret politics through personalities won’t know where to file this in their brains. Those who understand “principles before personalities” will probably have an easier time, whether they agree or not.”
Really? Is that what you think is going on? Try this: For me, it’s the last straw.
I haven’t agreed with you for several days now, but I figured: “Well, that’s okay. Even if I disagree, I still think Obama needs to be pushed from the left. And she’s doing that.”
Well, fuck that. What I see now is an attention suck having a tantrum. I hope you get over it soon.
This has nothing to do with pride. Scroll up and read the complaint.
You might be okay with sitting on the sidelines while these criminals take every penny from average Americans to get their million dollar bonuses at the same time they are throwing folks out of their houses. Don’t come here expected to get alot of folks to agree with that.
……Jane Hamsher……
Sell that propaganda Tokyo Rose!
Sell that propaganda Tokyo Rose!
You’re a NEO-CON and now everyone knows…
Sell that propaganda Tokyo Rose!
Is there a minimum age requirement — or minimum IQ — for posting here, ’cause God knows, we need it.
you make a most excellent point, tbsa
Ding. There is no reason to let others decide the battle lines (or “framing” as one academic would put it.
No disrespect, Jane (u know we love you!), but do u seriously believe Eric Holder and the Department of Corruption (I mean Justice or is it “just us”) is going to investigate The Obama King’s Chief Lapdog and chamber boy?? Do you mean the same Department of Justice that REFUSED to prosecute Bush and his henchman for “War Crimes”, even though the evidence was overwelming – do you mean the same Department of Justice who continues to defend the Bush and NOW “The Obama King’s” outrageous abuses of just about anything and looks the other way?
It’s NOT going to happen, Jane – not in this lifetime – the next lifetime – or the next. I don’t think it was worth any effort to send a letter to Holder, and in a way I’m surprised – well not really surprised – that the scumbag Norquist would get involved at all except to make political points for his corrupt beyond all your wildest dreams (well not your or my wildest dreams, but u get the point) political party..
WTF?
“Those who mention being dissed by Rahm or ignored by Obama have lost sight of the so-called prize.”
And what prize would that be exactly? Standing in line at a soup kitchen while Wall Street fat cats stroll by in their wool coats and bowlers?
Jesus christ… you Obamabots are even scarier than the Palinbots.
And by the way, Jane lest I forget….you’re still the cutest girl on TV.
buh-bye for god’s sake already.
Rahm Emanuel is a cancer in the body of the Democratic Party, and apparently a crook too. Go figure. Anything that can be done to get rid of him is a good thing, as far as I’m concerned. That said, I don’t see Holder having the integrity to launch an investigation. But I will be offering my full-throated support to Jane and those who are pushing for an investigation.
As if it needed to be said, the Rahmbots over at DKos are already frothing at the mouth over this. Fuck ‘em – they’re nothing but a bunch of mindless enablers.
Don’t expect agreement? What is this, an affirmation group?
I don’t come here — or any place online — for “agreement.” I come here to express my opinion.
And read the complaint, you say?! The complaint??!! You understand, of course, that anyone can file a complaint. They are allegations, not evidence.
Why don’t we see what Larry Klayman has to say? I’ll bet he’s got a doozy of a complaint in his back pocket!
If you don’t see it enacted it will be because of the Blue Dogs that Rahm installed in the Congress to be “democrats” and who are nothing more than Republicans. They are not moderates – they are full-blown conservatives and Rahm did this to us and to the country. That’s my primary beef with Rahm and we are going to have to live with his “chosen ones” for awhile unless we can get them out of office.
B-but…but…Norquist likes and still works for his corporate masters.
Or are we no longer at war with Eastasia, and I just missed the memo?
this isn’t reform, you just don’t understand us, we’re not in it for some kind of field goal, we’re in this for a health care bill not an insurance profiteering bill
this is far from getting ego bruised
Yay democracy! Yay open-minded progressivism!
Great idea! Lead us all in the “Herd” Way!
Jane, it’s apparent from your actions over the past few weeks that the only personality you care about is your own. Please, go with the Beck angle, it suits you very well. Maybe you can swing an appearance with Palin next, I’m sure she’d be happy to have you on board because like Norquist, all she cares about is America, freedom and and drowning government spending in a bath tub. Norquist is an asshole, a bigot and as crooked as anyone Abramoff did business with, but you met his wife and she was nice so it works out in the end.
Jesus christ… you Obamabots are even scarier than the Palinbots.
Sorry booyah, but, if the shoe fits…! ;-)
Do you realize how much you sound like a freeper?
“Buh-bye”? Why? Am I being a party pooper?
You know, even people who regard themselves as activists and iconoclasts are really just looking for agreement and affirmation, aren’t they?
And that’s what you’ve got here, Jane. A brood of chicks scurrying along behind you craving your attention and approval.
Yeah, that blogosphere. It sure is a hotbed of activism!
my point was that she keeps saying she’s leaving… but she hasn’t left yet! I was just agreeing with her position!
She gets to talk too, dude.
(delurk)
I think this is a wonderful display of integrity and guts, and I’m grateful for it. Nice moves, Jane!
It seems like there’s a constant framing of, well, damn near everything in the U.S. political sphere, in terms of an eternal struggle between the left and the right. And it’s bogus. It is a huge distraction- and a great way to manipulate people and perceptions. It’s a technique that is assailable (hopefully) by moves like the ones being made here.
Ain’t you right!!!
Greetings chipshirley…. Hmmmm, I still see that you continue to puff away at a FURIOUS pace on that damn CRACK PIPE again!
Talk about the pot calling the fucking kettle black!
Point well taken. We have to be pragmatic and take it one step at a time. He may not want to sign onto the next demand.
Quote: “you just don’t understand us”
Jesus, grow up! It’s not that I don’t understand you. It’s that I don’t agree with you. There’s a difference.
True comment! This FDL site is closet neo-con.
CT… I definitely do not agree with Jane on everything… and when I don’t, I say so… witness a thread a couple of weeks ago where I disagreed strongly. Other times I just take a break from the blog…
But when anyone sends a letter about Emanuel’s alleged criminal behavior… I support it… thank you very much!
Chip, after you come down off of your Hope buzz, maybe you should put the pom poms down, sit down for a few seconds and think really hard about who’s sending 30,000 more American troops to Afghanistan and who’s speaking out against it before you run around accusing people of being neo-cons.
Quote: “my point was that she keeps saying she’s leaving… but she hasn’t left yet! I was just agreeing with her position!”
If you’re talking to me, I don’t recall saying I was leaving.
my point was that she keeps saying she’s leaving… but she hasn’t left yet! I was just agreeing with her position!
I will repeat as often as necessary…
Jane’s writing is better than her interviewing skills. At 1:29 she says, “Because a law that Rahn Emanuael passed shortly before he went into Congress [sic] had a loophole in it that allowed them to fire the acting Attorney [sic] General….”
Well someone’s got Rahm’s number!!
And aloha, CT. Are you up on the mountain? Rain cleaned things out pretty well, and it’s beautiful here.
Nice of you to be a mindreader (and a cynical one) for the rest of us. Thanks. We needed your help to lift the scales from our eyes.
Your concern is so touching. Go some place else if you find us so awful.
I suggest you read up on what he actually believes in and stack it up alongside what you believe in. He’ll have his own demands, believe me. Or rather his benefactors will.
Well, she does.
The fruitcakes really are coming out of the wood work aren’t they.
you said upthread to take your name off of FDL and Actblue and that you didn’t want anything more to do with the site… I took that to mean you were taking your toys and going home… but I guess you’re just going to stay and hurl invectives!
My mistake, hurl away.
No one here is afraid of Grover Norquist. Give it up.
Jane Hamsher has zero credibility. PEACE!
There seems to be a lot of agitated over-reaction goin’ on.
Lookit: Jane is allied with Norquist on this one task targeting Rahm (and rattling BHO’s cage quite nicely – and appropriately). She’s not adopting Norquist’s agenda.
Some form of health care reform is inevitable. The current system is unsustainable. But reform does not have to be this Senate bill; and it does not have to pass this month.
Get a grip, y’all.
Like bats or something. Dusty and leathery.
Absolutely…! We just don’t have to agree and/or read’em…!
Newsflash, we couldn’t care less.
Talking is okay. Pouting and calling names is not so cool.
Have you ever been interviewed on live-TV? Everyone’s writing skills are better than their live interview skills.
I said next time may be different. I said there was a need to be pragmatic.
Well, if you’re going to partner with a Republican to garner a little “borrowed” interest, at least you chose someone of unimpeachable character, and an icon of ethical politics. Grover “small enough to drown” Norquist?
I’m reminded of the reason some researchers prefer lawyers over lab rats for certain experiments; there are some things a rat just won’t do.
I’m going with the rats on this one until you get an MRI and post the results.
The high point of that interview was when the conservative said.”I agree with Jane completely.” Now that was a true historical moment.
Obama is a Uniter after all.
When the Senators vote tomorrow…they will have some things to think about. “Can I be reelected?”
I resent the attack on fruitcakes. Everyone loves my mother’s fruitcake, and I continue the tradition. (White dough, not the soggy brown stuff, no racial attack intended.)
Bis.
Wow. Talking about shining a light. It is about time that people begin to “connect the dots” for Mr. Emanuel. His shady dealings have been protected for long enough and it is time that people have the opportunity to FINALLY see what Rahm has been up to. For more info on rahmbo visit: http://www.jipw.com
In Hilo town and looking up at both mtn’s with absolutely no clouds around…! Spectacular to say the least…! ;-)
You new here???
EPU land I hope.
If you read John LeCarre novels you will know that what Jane is doing is “Shaking the tree.”
Uh, guess what? I can see for myself that I stand out like a sore thumb amidst what is mostly a bunch of little chicks scurrying after Mama Jane.
If it was agreement and approval I looked for when I posted online, I would wait to see what everyone else thought and pick the side that seemed to have the most votes. Obviously, since I’m still posting here, that’s not what I look for.
Anyway, I’ve had my say. Jane’s had hers. And you all have provided her with clucking support.
Job well done, peeps!
The sad part of this all is that it’s nothing new. Rahm Emanuel is kind of a crook. No, a big crook. And a bully. I am really that the light is going to be shone in his direction. Now we can all get a better look a rahmbo.
This wouldn’t be the first time Grover has stepped on the hooves of AlPACa’s!
So Llamos!
Rahm Emanuel should have no place in the Obama Administation.
Shameful Jane. Where are your principles?
Okay eCAHN, sorry for the fruitcake slight. I am positive your mother makes a fantastic fruitcake. (I’ve never had the pleasure of tasting one made with white dough.)
Huge error Jane. Never ‘credibilize’ neoliberals by collaborating with them.
Google Jamaican Slave Revolt. I think Granny Nanny has a recipe for slave master stew. If you want cheap labor, get some child robots. All people are equally divine. There is no hierarchy. There are only two kinds of people: dust and ashes.
Go away. You don’t want to discuss issues – you want to attack Jane and us. I suspect that you don’t really know the issues, so go away.
You do realise that Emptywheel is the Number One analyst of that issue…and is linked and supported by FDL, which has raised over $100K for her research efforts?
Splinter groups are what divide and conquer are all about. What do democrats have in common with rahm? chuck shummer? harry reid? When have they stood up for us? Yet not one democrat talked about shunning.Old Quaker and Amish way of keeping the flock in line for the non religious.
The democrats who continue to fund an unjust war will vote for this health care bill. That is where the land in the sand has to be drawn.People are dying in wars that the govt. has not given us one logical reason for being in. And now , US sights are on South American oil. The madness has to stop. Health care is a good place to say enough.
Many of us agree with her, and think it’s a clever move.
Sorry …line in the sand.
Well of course YOU’RE not, Spartacus. But you’re not doing jack shit but typing on a keyboard and being pissed off, for all I can see.
The point is not that I’m ‘afraid’ of him, the point is questioning the wisdom of trading momentary gain for future pain. Does the trade-off really make sense down the line? Because he stands to gain a lot if he’s instrumental in bringing down Obama’s Chief Of Staff. Don’ you get that? I think he’ll reap far more in terms of publicity, political capital and financial and media support than Jane or progressives will, and I consider him an enemy.
Who the hell do you think will replace Rahm, anyway? Dennis Kucinich? No. Some other Beltway apparatchik who will be no more friendly to us than Rahm, but quieter. But Norquist will have a scalp on his belt.
Jane said herself, “Nobody would care if I called for Rahm’s resignation all by myself.”
I just want to know what her plan is for the aftermath, because that fucking matters.
Quote: “Many of us agree with her, and think it’s a clever move.”
Okay, I’ll bite. How’s this a clever move?
Was that Freudian or what?
Then there’s a LOT of folks here you need to talk to as well as me, ma’am.
Show business aside, the tail does not wag the dog.
I hope you never wrote a word about Lieberman supporting McCain. Nice to see that the Firesheep are in line though.
Ok, this is getting to be funny.
The more successful Jane and FDL are, the more drive-by-shill-bottings will happen. It is a good thing. Except maybe for the mods. Just give’em a couple of responses and then ignore.
Who the hell do you think will replace Rahm, anyway? Dennis Kucinich? No. Some other Beltway apparatchik who will be no more friendly to us than Rahm, but quieter. But Norquist will have a scalp on his belt
At the risk of sounding redundant. It’s is NOT okay for criminals to be the gatekeeper of POTUS. Mmmmkay?
I hear ya loud and clear…! I don’t always agree either with Jane and will state so…! I’m behind Jane 100% for ‘Kill The Bill’ and now going all rambo on Rahmbo…! ;-)
I’m not thrilled she went on Faux Spew, but, I respect her reasoning behind it…!
Apology accepted. *g* (The real way to guilt out the lefties is appeal to your mother.) If you send me an email at rosannecahn at aol dot com with your mailing addy, I’ll send you a sample and you can judge for yourself.
Howard Dean would be nice to replace rahm. And if he turned Obama down , nobody would blame him.
rahm is not right for a job that requires any kind of diplomacy. He would be better as a bouncer in a rough bar.In a bad section of town.
((((mods))))
Quote: “I just want to know what her plan is for the aftermath, because that fucking matters.”
Exactly. The only upside to any of this is that, by joining forces with Grover Norquist, she’s completely undercut her own credibility, which in turn may mitigate the damage.
And that’s too bad, because I used to think she elevated and contributed to the debate.
Relax, It’s going to be ok. You’re hyperventilating, Crocus.
Dean is right about the libs.
No fight in them.
Keep fighting Jane and ignore the weak libs.
F&*k you Jane…Now you are a teabagger…Exaggerations and folks calling people in the administration criminal? How long until you have the Obama Joker posters out and start asking about his birth certificate. ALL, I repeat, ALL you are doing is making the people who never, ever will support any type of progressive change stronger. I do not care how much you think you are our Joan of Arc. You are turing into a usefull tool for the right. You are straddling the line between exaggeration and lies. Most of the people reading these blogs or the news are relying on others to tell them what is in the final bill. You are beginning to spin the thing you do not like just like FOX News would do. Overstating, calling people criminal. Grover is laughing his ass off at you right now. I know you do not care because you are the one and only to tell us the truth and save us. What a crock. For all you crusaders out there, there are 300 million people in the US, your petition is a joke and is useless. How long until Jane talks about death panels and maybe appears with Palin. All of you are off the charts and Jane is whipping you up, just like Fox does with the clueles folks on the right….
Sorry, lost me there.
There’s lots of erroneous conflating going on. It’s a logical fallacy to assert that because two people want the same specific thing they must therefore be in agreement about everything in general. Or that they’ve henceforth formed an eternal unshakable alliance.
But lo how you clutch your pearls. Lo!
I will most definitely take you up on that.
Nope, Jane has never, ever written or done anything about Joe.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
I just couldn’t do it without laughing…
Quote: “But lo how you clutch your pearls. Lo!”
Ooh good one! You’re fantastic with the mot juste!
Point well taken. And my typing skills were hardly any better.
Very well stated. Thank you.
Just hugging the mods for all their great work. Parentheses are ehugs.
Jane has zero credibility .
Would you please go somewhere else? We would not be here if we did not like/adore her.
It would be fun to see Gibbs announce THAT appointment.
Oh, God, spare the condescension, please. At the risk of sounding redundant, maybe it’s not smart to hand someone with interests opposed to yours a possible political victory that could cost you dearly down the line, even if it seems sexy and exciting in the moment. Is this the ONLY WAY to skin this particular cat? Or the smartest?
It’s galvanizing and exciting as hell, I agree. But how long has this been worked on? And why is 11-dimensional chess okay now?
As a strong admire of Ms. Hamsher who is a true Warrior…I’m reminded of the imperfection of previous, now historic bills/laws that have been passed throughout our country’s history. The Civil Rights Act, Womens Rights, Equal Rights Amendment, Child Labor Laws, Fair Housing, Voters Rights Act just to name a few, all of which are still being ‘tweaked’ toward perfection to this day. But despite their flaws, in these monumental cases, Americans are thankful that the opposition was unable to ” Kill The Bill “.
Article by Greg Jones
Blacks4Barack
National Director
” My Health Care Reform FLIP-FLOP…I FEEL GOOD ! ”
BTW, transparait, you were going to tell me how clever a move on Jane’s part this is.
Still working on that response, I assume?
Just sayin, you fold kind of quick.
She wants the mods to scrub her address…! She must’ve clicked the wrong reply…! ;-)
Even a word against any thing that Obama has done, and they are howling – so who are the sheep? Not us.
I don’t know who’s “Number One,” but I am familiar with Emptywheel’s efforts regarding torture. I must have missed the stuff about the statute of limitations about to begin expiring soon.
Thanks, Brave One. Lucky to have your strong anti-corporatist shoulder to lean on.
Quote: “Would you please go somewhere else? We would not be here if we did not like/adore her.”
Very telling. I thought this was an activist site. Apparently it’s a Jane Adoration Society?
I like to think that that’s not what Jane is looking for, that at some level she really believes in what she’s doing.
You know, I first wrote that this inappropriately legitimizes Norquist, but the more I think about it the more I have to conclude that it delegitimizes Ms. Hamsher.
It’s really sad since she was flying high on the side of righteousness. But when you lie down with a pig, nobody’s gonna wake up clean.
It almost feels like Jane Hamsher has come to occupy some kind of beltway insider zone where every person with an organization is just another player to make a deal with. I’m sorry but Norquist is not just another guy to make a deal with.
And where’s Ms. Hamsher’s confidence in her ability to make a statement that matters on its own? To crawl to Mr. Norquist in order to be heard is sad and obscene.
*heh* That rates up there with Obama’s recent remarks that he never campaigned on the Public Option…!
I used to be a talking head on cable-TV financial channels in my Wall St days. Did instant analysis of just-released economic data. It was a no-lose for me because I got air time, and no one was out to get me. But I developed a healthy respect for people who were on-air in a much more vulnerable situation, like Jane’s. I have a great deal of resprect for her skills-keeping herself on message and not making gross errors under pressure. JMO.
I heartily second that emotion.
Yeah? How did I fold? I still have the same opinions I came in with. And I can’t help but notice that all you want to do is offer up limp, barely lit flames.
Sorry, missed that. The country is in the hands of corporate stooges. Their endeavors will not be popular. Progressives publicly disassociating themselves from those endevors as early and forcefully as possible is the smart play.
Yes because we wanted the man we all worked our asses off to get elected, the man who we all believed would finally turn this country around the man we gave money (we didn’t always have) to turn out to be a lying sack of shit. Yes, you figure us out. Don’t you feel smart.
What about Emannuel’s dual citizenship? Does anyone feel comfortable with there being an Israeli tail wagging the American dog steps from the Oval?
And I must have missed it when people who participate on this site got this excited — on either side of the issue — when Rep. Conyers proposed early this year to extend the statute of limitations for torture to ten years.
Quote: “The country is in the hands of corporate stooges. Their endeavors will not be popular. Progressives publicly disassociating themselves from those endevors as early and forcefully as possible is the smart play.”
Oh jeez. I agree the country is run by corporate whores. After that, all I read is gobbledy gook. If this is your idea of why Jane teaming up with Grover Norquist is a “smart move,” we’re in deep kimchee.
Fortunately, Jane has just set her bona fides on fire, so maybe it won’t be so bad.
You need to get in to politics at every level and see how the game is played – and it is a game. It’s sometimes mean and ugly but it’s a game of strategy and only the very clever need apply.
This is a joke, right? Grover Norquist? The man who has done more than anyone to bring the economy of this nation to its knees? I wouldn’t lift a finger if the bastard was [edited by mod], much less sign something with Grover Norquist’s name on it.
We Progressives support you 100% and appreciate ALL your effort, Jane! You are one COURAGEOUS lady! Thank you…
Dear Jane, And I was just beginning to like you. Are we talking about the same Grover Norquist here? The one who worked with Abrabmoff to transfer funds/pay-offs/bribes to Ralph Reed, the founder of the Christian Coalition, and anti-gambling (hypocrite) proponent? The same Grover Norquist that helped to fund Tom Delay’s dirty GOP pac through same indian casino pay-offs. The same Norquist, who helped Abrahmoff and Delay to create an effective island of slaves on America Samoa? The very same who’s worked for tax cut after tax cut for the obscenely wealthy, while supporting an illegal neo-con war in Iraq that has grown the deficit and all the while let Al Queada and the fiercely anti-education women oppressing and ancient art detroying barbarians know as the Taliban re-group and re-vitalize itself in Afghanistan and Pakistan?
You’ve jumped the shark like very few I’ve ever seen before and this is groteque beyond words. Norquist is the enemy and will always be the enemy, this is like making a political alliance with one of the foulest most corrupt, most cynical right-wing hate-mongers in the country. There’s nothing wrong with an investigation into Emanuel, but to close your eyes to Norquist’s repulsive past is simply senseless.
This is my position too. For all too many folks in the blogosphere, issues like this are more or less abstract. If the reactionaries [in and out of the Wall Street bunkers] Norquist represent gain access to both Congress and the White House again, they will pursue policies that bring even more pain to the very people progressives profess to support. Real, flesh and blood folks on mainstreet who will have to deal with the flesh and blood consequences of anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-black and brown, anti-women, anti-secular, anti-liberal social policies the reactionaries will be hell bent on legislating.
My own support for the petition rests only on the assumption that those who sign [support] it will work to replace Obama Inc. with more progressive Democrats and independents. Without that, going after Emanuel and his corrupt, corporatist ilk will only facilitate the reactionary agenda.
As we get closer to 2010 and 2012, if it appears progressives will not be successful in challenging the Wall Street Democrats, then I will support Obama over BeckWorld. That’s hard for many pissed off progressives to stomach, sure, but I happen to remember BushWorld just enough to dread the prospect of a “movement” Republican rendition of it.
You needn’t feel any pity for the demise of the Democratic party, to that extent we should thank Emanuel for their nadvertant undoing by his hand.
These Democrats knew what they were doing they bet on the wrong pony.
I think you are doing yeoman’s work in proving that you will not sit idly by while government slashes away at the public. The people in power need to see that their misdeeds will not go unchecked.
We are really in your debt Jane.
BTW I feel that associating with the right may stand the left in good stead in one respect. That is we can learn from them how to transform collective indignation into collctive action. If one thing is obvious it is that the right is able to exert a disproportionate amount of influence somply by raising hell. I think with much more cuase the left should learn how to be motivated to raise more hell.
CTut!
yeah, what a whopper.
No i feel sick that because you do not get everything you want now, that makes Obama a lying sack of shit. Take every freakin name on the petition and deduct them from Obama’s vote count..Guess what, he still wins. You are just like the teabaggers in the park…You think a couple of hundred, maybe thousand folks who read EXACTLY the same sources are going to change the world…You are sitting in a corner. Good luck with President Palin or whoever else Gover gets elected. I am sure they will be more in favor of reform once you help the get Obama kicked out…WAAAAAAA
You forget that Tokyo Rose was “framed”…a creation of the media.
So you’re trying the same scam again….so who’s the “propagandist”??
There’s no way that Norquist can use this any further than getting Rahm out of the administration. In my view that would be the best thing for the Administration and progressives, since anything that Rahm has touched strategically has blown up in his face. He’s a bully, but generates flawed results. It means that Obama would really have to listen to the progressives. He would realize that they are not mindless, obedient robots without options. Since any more dissing of them would not bring results, he’d have two options. Either negotiate with Norquist on policy (i.e bring back Dubya)…or listen to the heart-and-soul of his party.
Frankly though, I’ve seen better taunts by Third Graders than what your are generating.
I’m a progressive, and I do not support this petition.
Near as I can tell, it’s not progressives who support this petition, but rather the little chicks who make up the Jane Adoration and Starry-Eyed Approval Society.
Jane–Keep up the Good Work!!!!
You are the anti-Neocon and the Anti-Neoliberal!!!
Yes, Jane actually believes in the old liberal ideals of the New Left which is for people over corporate profits!!!!!
Jane espouses the aame ideals as Noam Chomsky and her logic of these two-parties consistent with Gore Vidal’s take on the political structure in America….
I hope that the Left starts to warm up to Cindy Sheehan again….Cindy Sheehan is setting up her antiwar camp in Washington, D.C. to protest Obama’s wars.
I hope Jane meeets up with Cindy soon as well!!!
I caucussed for Obama, and I’m pissed…! Sold down the river…!
This is not good.
I am not so sure partnering with Grover Norquist was a good thing to do Jane. I am not a fan of Rahm’s but the following information is relevant to this discussion and reveals the Rethugs (Newt and the rest of the scum)infiltrated the organization and were likely the culprits.
http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Freddie-Mac-Company-His…
Key Dates:
1970: The U.S. Congress creates the Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corp., nicknamed Freddie Mac.
1971: The first conventional mortgage security, the Mortgage Participation Certificate (PC), is introduced.
1984: Freddie Mac distributes 15 million shares of participating, preferred nonvoting stock to individual member savings institutions.
1989: Freddie Mac is listed on the New York Stock Exchange.
1993: Cumulative mortgage finances surpass the $1 trillion mark.
1997: The company adopts the nickname Freddie Mac as its official name.
***********************************************************************
2000: The company’s 30th anniversary marks an equally long unbroken string of profitability.
************************************************************************
2002: An agreement is reached that requires stock to be registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission for the first time.
____________________
Norwest Mortgage Inc., the largest residential lender in the country, and Freddie Mac struck a groundbreaking deal in 1999. In addition to using each other’s technologies to streamline the loan process, Norwest (which was to become part of Wells Fargo & Company through a landmark reverse merger) agreed to grant Freddie Mac exclusive rights to purchase nearly all of the loans it originated. On a side note, ex-Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich joined Freddie Mac as a consultant during 1999.
__________________
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/12/07-week/
Gingrich Slammed Pols “Beholden” to Fannie and Freddie — But Shilled For Freddie Himself
By Zachary Roth – December 8, 2008, 11:27AM
We already knew Newt Gingrich doesn’t lack for chutzpah. But this looks like a whole new level…
Back when Congress was debating the bailout package this fall, Gingrich was bravely sounding the alarm about the nefarious influence wielded in Washington by mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Here he is talking to Bill O’Reilly on Fox News in late September:
“One of the provisions that I wanted to put into any kind of financial package is that no company that gets money from the Treasury in this process be allowed to hire a lobbyist. I mean, what you have today is that the rich in Wall Street and the powerful at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had so many politicians beholden to them that, in fact, nobody was going to check them. And so they got away with things that were absolute bologna, and it’s a tragedy.”
Gingrich was particularly vocal about some Democratic politicians’ ties to Fannie and Freddie:
“In Dodd’s case, he is the largest single recipient of money from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Barack Obama was No. 2. The fact is that to have Dodd preside over writing this bill, I think, is absolutely disgusting. I am appalled that Harry Reid appointed him to sit in there. But it is the nature of politics up there right now. And I think it’s very, very bad for the country.”
[...]
It’s nice to be Newt…
[more at link...]
And Newt isn’t the only one who “Muck”ed Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac…
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, mortgage giants whose financial collapse prompted a government takeover earlier this fall, hired a who’s who of lobbyists to kill legislation that would impose more regulation. In 2006, Freddie Mac shelled out $11.7 million to lobbyists and consultants with ties to Republican lawmakers — including former Minnesota Rep. Vin Weber and Susan Hirschmann, the former Chief of Staff to Texas Rep. Tom DeLay — the most ferocious critics of the institutions. The organizations will be the topic of a congressional hearing tomorrow. (AP)
http://www.allbusiness.com/operations/facilities-commercial-real-estate/…
The latest stinging indictment of Freddie Mac’s accounting and disclosure practices came last week from the government-sponsored mortgage entity itself. Freddie Mac chairman Shaun O’Malley announced during a conference call on Wednesday that six months after a board-ordered independent investigation, a new report contained findings that were “highly critical” of the firm’s approach to reporting its earnings.
Chief among the litany of failings was the fact that key company executives and its auditors, Arthur Andersen L.L.P., were aware that certain complex accounting procedures that deviated from generally accepted accounting principals were being employed to manage earnings volatility.
Those deviations created the conditions that led Freddie Mac to announce in January that it would restate its financial results for the past three years. Chairman & CEO Leland Brensdal, executive vice president & CFO Vaughn Clark and president & COO David Glenn were subsequently ousted in June. Gregory Parseghian was named CEO.
The prior management also micro-managed the financial information the board of directors saw, inhibiting its ability to act in an independent manner, according to James Doty.
[more at link...]
[Modnote: post a brief portion of an article and then link to the source to respect the copyright of the author, thank you.]
The kool-aid imbibers are reeling. Now that’s funny.
Think harder, but don’t sprain anything.
WTH?
I just watched the clip and could not believe my ears. “Time for liberals and conservatives to come together to defeat the bill”? I think that Jane has lost completely perspective on the issue. I consider myself a REAL liberal and would never “come together” with a bunch of neo-fascist wingnuts (that’s what “conservatives” are) no matter what. I am sorry to see Jane going that way because I have a lot of respect for her. I dont like seeing her losing her credibility.
I totally agree. It is almost sad watching what’s going on here.
Reply to rc1220… Now you be nice and knock it off [edited by mod]…and take your pom poms & kool-aide somewhere else!
Personally I think it would make sense to entitle the petition the “I Have a Crush on Jane” Petition. Then everyone would be clear on what it is.
Jane is a disaster waiting to happen.. Where is she going with all of this, what is she trying to accomplish???? Train wreck that it is… We are going to deliver this country back in the hands of the republicans. Come down from the clouds and try to appreciate reality for a change. Last time you all voted for Ralph Nader as a matter of principle and see where that accomplished…
This certainly strips any veneer of respectability from Grover Norquist, doesn’t it?
He’s gonna be scratching firefleas.
Yes, and while we’re at it, how about Obama’s birth certificate and some shit I once read in THE PROTOCOLS OF ZION???
You are so jealous it shows.
Earth to everybody. Grover Norquist is a red herring.
he he he heee firefleas!
I almost, almost said that. Thanks.
You forgot to include all the gay guys who support Jane’s efforts. Gotta be inclusive in your scorn.
The Democratic Party sold out the liberal base and all of its core values and ideas with the formation of the Democratic Leadership Council with Bill Clinton….
The ignorant criticizing Jane Hamsher need to learn way more about the Democratic Party being the actual sellouts to liberal social and economic values, thus, becoming equal to the GOP in corporate whoring….
How many of you Jane Hamsher bashers realizes that this Democratic Party only cares about winning re-election and being corporate shills?
Have any Jane Hamsher bashers yelled at the Democratic Party for allowing Arlen “Spineless” Specter to be in the party to be an Obama prostitute and the Dems want voters to go vote for this jerk in PA?
Dood… Do a little research before you make such asinine remarks…! I believe EW confronted Conyers in person about that issue…! Being a ‘Newbie’ we’ll cut ya some slack… This time…!
You talk as if you work for Hill and Knowlton. You call a hard-hitting activist a “teabagger” because Jane Hamsher fights, unlike Barack Obama and the Democratic Party.. Then you say she “exaggerates”. Rahm Emmanuel is far more dangerous than Grover, who merely laundered money for wingnuts.
Try to understand this, it is quite simple. The President campaigned for Health Care, then he broke his promise. He has given everything away including his Administration to the corporations. THAT IS CALLED BETRAYAL. So, stop the false accusations and distractions.
Quote: “Think harder, but don’t sprain anything.”
Eh, truth to tell, I’ve realized there’s nothing here worth thinking about. Now I’m just slumming till I can leave early and finish up a few things on my Christmas list.
As huge a disappointment as it was to realize the public option was probably doomed from the start (and to feel strung along by Obama on that), it is probably more surprising to see what a mess sites like this one are making of themselves. But, if I got past the former, I can sure get past this.
It’s just surprising is all.
Since you’re still here… what exactly was that prize that we are not focusing on?
Quote: “You are so jealous it shows.”
Oh God! Rolling out the big guns now, eh??!!
Too funny. And more than a little embarrassing that I ever took this place seriously.
But really, I shouldn’t base my opinion on this exchange. That’d hardly be fair, would it?
Yeah, I was looking for the “irony icon” on that one, too?
Can we get some sort of thing on posts telling us when the authors have signed up, and how much participation they have on this site?
Everything’s gonna be just fine. Don’t worry.
:)
So when is your appearance on Glenn Beck? Will you be asking to see Obama’s long-form birth certificate?
After WWII, one day the American Occupation forces declared the German currency null and void and issued Occupation scrip. The German people threw their now worthless money in the streets, and the American forces picked it al up like garbage cleanup. The next day the Occupation forces declared the scrip null and void. Then…
ummm…. count me out of the adoration society!
I do not “adore” anyone in politics. I question everyone equally… Jane included. To do otherwise is a slippery slope to botdom.
Can’t help but wonder how many of the Jane bashers are paid operatives. Does Rahm sign their checks? or is it Axelrod?
Oh please. Do you think that Chomsky would ever make alliances with neofascist “conservatives”? Sorry, but what Jane is doing is destructive. I have no problem with Emanuel being investigated and it would probably be a good thing. But I have a huge problem with this sort of reaching to “conservatives”, aka wingnuts and teabaggers.
Thanks!
Lots of hyperbolic talk too, but that’s pretty normal when something important and galvanizing happens. One of the things I have always appreciated about the Lake is that overall things tend to stay pretty reasonable and don’t devolve for too long, and even when the debate gets, um, lively, the dialog still goes on. It’s easy to get swept up in the moment though.
Are you that Maine woman with the lame stalker site?
No i feel sick that because you do not get everything you want now, that makes Obama a lying sack of shit.
For those of us that can discern fact from fiction Obama is a lying sack of shit because he says things he knows full well are false as though they are true.
Take every freakin name on the petition and deduct them from Obama’s vote count..Guess what, he still wins. </em
Wait until everyone gets to pay for their shiny new healthcare. We will see who has an ice cubes chance in hell of re – election.
You are just like the teabaggers in the park…You think a couple of hundred, maybe thousand folks who read EXACTLY the same sources are going to change the world…You are sitting in a corner.
You have NO intelligent argument so you resort to this statement. You don’t know me. You have no idea what I did for Obama during the campaign. Ignorance is bliss for you isn’t it.
Good luck with President Palin or whoever else Gover gets elected. I am sure they will be more in favor of reform once you help the get Obama kicked out…WAAAAAAA
We already have republican in office now, or is it a dem suporting torture, state secrets, indefinite illegal detention, I could go on but I digress….
The corruption will only stop when the left and the right set aside their childish name calling and false imagery of the other side being 100% wrong 100% of the time without acknowledging their own errors.
The conservatives are NOT 100% wrong about everything. And the liberals are not correct about 100% of everything.
One thing is clear … We are all as a nation headed the wrong way… and the left and right are screaming about it… and no one is willing to make the big changes needed.
The enforcers of LAW are the corrupted ones. The makers of LAW are the corrupted ones. ONLY the people can set this right. Our Founding Fathers said it was our DUTY to keep our government honest and working for our interests. ONLY the people can set this right. Not some of the people. The LEFT and the RIGHT. Grow up. Stop calling the other side names and stop listening to their name calling. Then we can merge to clean up this mess. It wont be a long coalition, only long enough to clean house.
Quote: “Since you’re still here… what exactly was that prize that we are not focusing on?”
I can’t believe you all say things like “since you’re still here”! You only underscore that, while you claim to be progressives, this is really just a kaffee klatsch! Well, progressives need those too, I guess.
The prize is health care reform. Yes, it’s a huge disappointment to lose the public option, to realize we were very possibly being strung along on that. But we are where we are, and there is enough good in the bill to pass it (hopefully with improvements), and then continue to work on it.
Anyone who thinks we can kill this bill and then revisit it anytime soon is out of his mind. We will not revisit it under this President. We’ll have to wait until at least the next Democratic President — and not even then if we’re lucky enough to have another Democratic President immediately after Obama.
Do you suppose it’s possible for all these yelling people to realize that we are all Americans and all in the same boat? Everyone here needs good health care. We need to get the troops home and rebuild our country. We need jobs and manufacturing. Each of us is no different than the other. We sink or swim together and we each have a right to speak and have our opinions. It is offensive to be called names because you have different ideas. So join in, discuss the issues with us and stop the tantrums.
That is a really good idea.
I’ve got no problem calling for an investigation as you’ve noted, but I do wonder why do you feel the need to join with Grover “bipartisanship=date rape” Norquist on asking for this. Could you do this on your own? And Norquist do it on his own at the same time…Or do you think it you need just a larger group of people united as one for it to be more effective. I know you are far more politically savvy and astute than myself in terms of organizing for causes, especially in regard to the ins/out of beltway politics and the good ole boyz club that rules the country. So maybe my questions seem a bit naive.,. and if it does I apologize. But one other concern I have is that I also thought Grover Norquist wasn’t totally squeaky clean either in regard to some of his own actions and the Abramoff mess.
That said of my concerns, I do appreciate that you’re continuing to connect the dots when it comes to Monied interests/political power run amok resulting in the screwing the masses. Thanks. I’m against possible illegal activity, corruption, and/or unethical behavior no matter what party rules the country. It’ll be interesting just what becomes of this…pass the popcorn.
spoken like a true menshavik.
Quote: “Can’t help but wonder how many of the Jane bashers are paid operatives.”
Good grief. Are you simply incapable of imagining that a progressive could disagree with Jane? We have to be paid operatives?
If so, that is a failure of imagination on your part.
naw, she wouldn’t listen.
Quote: “Are you that Maine woman with the lame stalker site?”
Well, we all console ourselves one way or another, don’t we? And, rather than believe I simply disagree with Jane, you’ve decided I’m a stalker.
Nice work.
She who?
Teabaggers must assume dark sinister things about who they do not like…Rahm is now the devil. Obama is a lying sack of shit…this is where your Joan of Arc is leading you. In my opinion, joining foreces with Grover is betrayal. You should direct your anger at congress. The democratic party has always been harder to organize due to the wide variances in beliefs…I am kind of joking but all you have to believe if you are a replican is brown people are scary, lower taxes for the rich solves everything and there is no real need to fix anything because Jesus has your back…
So, if you are succesful in painting Obama as betraying the party, how will you feel for 8 years of republican control of congress and the White House. This is a freakin war. Do you really think this bill cannot be improved as time goes. Of course not, Jane is already telling you it is the end of the world. I was a huge fan of hers before this. Now, she is a joke. She cannot make an argument without inflammatory rhetoric. Think you have a movement going? When the republicans take over, lets see how may progressive causes they will help you with. All of you need to get a grip..
MESSAGE TO ALL:
PLEASE—Read Obama’s Speeches—He often said one thing in one part and skillfully went back on what he already said in another part on key health and education and foreign policy remarks….
He even backtracked within his speech on the night he won the presidential election.
An activist site is different from just minimizing for drama instead of disagreeing with policy.
We don’t like Obama policy because he misrepresented himself.So be active. Go somewhere like Politico and be active there.
So fine…. go hang with the neoliberal wing of the Dem party… let us know how that works out for ya.
I think Jane is this years cristmas present to the progressive movement :)
The Ron Paul people WERE working with the left to denounce the Bush era crimes… the left thought after Bush the Dems would make everything better…
Feel better now?
The corruption of our government is too much. Set aside your partisanship and resign yourself to cleaning up this mess. Corrupt Democrats are just as bad as corrupt Republicans… stop defending corruption for political expediency.
The she who routinely, these days, responds to disagreement with personal attacks and allegations of impropriety and criminality.
I used to wonder what people meant when they talked about the “looney left.” I now know. Or we have an infestation of trolls who are about as progressive as my dog.
Chomksy worked for MIT…
Chomsky lectured at West Point….
I don’t think Chomsky condones law breaking and the powerful pissing on the people….
I think Chomsky would approve and support Jane’s activism in holding the corrupt political figures accountable.
“Anyone who thinks we can kill this bill and then revisit it anytime soon is out of his mind. We will not revisit it under this President. We’ll have to wait until at least the next Democratic President — and not even then if we’re lucky enough to have another Democratic President immediately after Obama.” – Lynn Dee
The Democrats can bring it up in January if they so choose. They dont have to wait at all… they run the Congress now… or are you saying the Democrats dont see it as that big of an emergency to bring it back up and make it right?
Keep swinging, chip by chip we’re going to get some justice achieved in the name of the people.
‘Nads is ‘nads.
Then we can merge to clean up this mess. It wont be a long coalition, only long enough to clean house.
Therein lies the prize…! ;-)
Still don’t know who you mean, sorry. I’ve seen beaucoups personal attacks on this thread, coming from different directions. So apparently there are quite a few who aren’t listening.
This is it in a nutshell”
“Rahm Emmanuel is far more dangerous than Grover, who merely laundered money for wingnuts.”
I came to the same conclusion… and I believe that’s what the ultimate Obama defenders really don’t get. If they truly knew all the things Emanuel has done to the Dem party… they would understand this strategy.
But alas it is too nuanced for their we must “defend Obama at all costs” weltanschaaung.
I am shocked, SHOCKED to discover that people who come here for the sole purpose of insulting and dismissing anyone and everyone who disagrees with their righteous indignation and (thus far demonstrably ineffectual) tactics for furthering progressive causes are treated less than hospitably. It’s truly heinous.
I am sure you personally got Obama elected. You may not think my argument is intelligent but you really do not think you are going over a cliff when you call Obama a republican??….I think the idea about you believing this is some huge movement is not credible. That was the point of the teabagger in the park statement….Arguments may not seem intelligent to the blind…You are blinded by rage. I know because i have sent my letters to the White House expressing my dissapointment with how little Obama seemed to have fought…Now, you said i have no idea how much you worked to get Obama elected. Is it not fair that you really have no idea what happened in these negotiations? We all have to rely on news sources and second hand news. So, none of us actually know what occured.
Thank you for the link to your letter.
Honestly, I never thought I would find myself agreeing with you, but you’re exactly right.
We want different things, but neither of us can accept this “worst monstrosity of all” that the Senate and the Obama administration is trying to push on the American people.
Rahm is Right-Wing enemy number 1. He decimated the GOP in 2006. He’s set to decimate them again in 2010, because he NEVER EVER EVER let’s them outflank him or give them a stranglehold or any political purchase. That was what he learned in the Clinton White House from the master himself. And Obama is no slouch in that department as well, he knows talent when he sees it.
Why this need for instant gratification from people like Huff and now Hamsher?? Political victories are never perfect. The winners are usually the ones with the tenacity and the vision and the persistence.
It’s funny, but in Hamsher’s action here with one of the foulest right-wing demagogues in the nation, always on the side of the corporations and the wealthy and the chickenhawks and the Jesus-hypocrites like Ralph Reed, I see a similar pursuit of the “ideological purity test” that the tea-baggers and their King Beck and Queen Palin demand of all other Right wingers. Except their fantasy is rooted in a nostalgia for Reagan, but where is this fantasy of Hamsher’s rooted in?? I’m not sure. The new deal? Was FDR so obsessed with ideological purity?
And the absolute absurd paradox is that both Norquist and Hamsher are ideological purists aligning together for entirely different ends, but if I was to put my finger on what they share in common I would call it something on the verge of romanticism. Romanticism and perhaps schizophrenia. Both believe the country has reached an extreme place that is simply intolerable (as have the Baggers and their media prophets).
Wow, if ever people needed to slow the hell down and have a drink or something. That “cornered” attitude always leads to extremism and violence.
And maybe I’d rather have an imperfect HCR bill than some sort of unholy Norquist/Hamsher army of fantasists.
This bill will not be revisited by this administration because they got the bill they wanted. Period!
Dang, Jane. You go!
Is it just me, or does that sound really, really naive? Don’t get me wrong, I’ve been known to believe in “hope”, but this sounds…well…really, really naive.
You have got a new fan and supporter in me Jane, I am so glad I decided to look for fdl after hearing ya on the Ed show a few weeks ago!
Keep pushing yourself on every show possible and this site/movement will grow grow grow!
I did a search engine look on her name and she posts a lot over at TPM. In one post back in early November she claimed she had quit coming to look at FDL for quite some time. So her antagonism has nothing to do with Jane showing up on Fox or putting this petition out calling for an investigation of Rahm.
Her vitriol started when FDL started criticising all the “compromises” being made in the Health Care Bills…Stupak, the dropping of the Public Option, the extension of Medicare to those 55 and up, the drug reimportation section, the loss of restraints on premiums and co-pays, ad nauseum.
Norquist? Gotta think about that one. May have gone too far there. The Kos people are having a stroke, man. This is a fracture between the neoliberal corporatist “liberals” versus the leftist economic populists. Finally, the true enemy is being exposed–the vile banksters.
Interesting times, man.
Quote: “We don’t like Obama policy because he misrepresented himself.So be active. Go somewhere like Politico and be active there.”
Politico is a rightwing site as far as I’m concerned, so no thanks. Guess I need to find an actual progressive site and not simply an “oh boo hoo, Rahm dissed us but Jane will protect us!” site.
I am a progressive, too, LynnDee.
I support the petition because it looks like the first time since JAN 2009 that progressives (who are the only ones looking out for the genuine interests of the majority of people in the US as identified by that majority in poll after poll) look poised to exercise power, instead of just getting kicked around by our supposed friends (whose only constituency is an already entrenched wealthy powerful elite).
This is a bold audacious move that might demonstrate to our president why he does indeed need the Left.
To me any perceived possible risks people are wringing their hands over in these comments are well worth taking.
I believe you misunderstood me. When I wrote of the excitement among “people who participate on this site,” I was referring to the number — not to mention the emotion — of the comments. I dare say that same emotion does not appear here on the issue of torture, at least not in the last year, which includes the timespan when the “torture memos” were released this Spring. Regrettably, I think you are mistaken.
Bingo. This is when the Clintonistas reconciled [and triangulated] with the Republicans and Wall Street to gut Glass Steagall, to “change welfare….the social safety net…as we know it”, to link up with Bilderberg to solidify America’s new roll in the post Nafta global economy.
Barack Obama’s administrations is veritably awash in these Henry Kissinger, “ruling class” types.
There you go. Busted !
We’re not teabaggers [edited by mod]. We’re objective observers firmly in touch with reality and what we expect from our elected officials. If anything your “support obama at any cost” rhetoric is more in line with Teabagging i.e. support republicans at any cost.
Forgive us for holding people accountable. Its not going to end. Piece by piece thread by motherfcking thread we will hold Obama and the democrats accountable. Believe it.
The Kos people are having a stroke
There you go Jane. Now you know something is going very well.
bluewind,
Better yet–email Chomsky and ask him…Chomsky is a structuralist and views the U.S. as a NeoFascist state to begin with.
So, Chomsky probably views people condoning the present system as those in agreement with Fascist state of America, which, at present Jane is actually critical of at the time.
I opppose the U.S. Empire of Militarism-Corporatism-Explooitation and will criticize it with or without Jane Hamsher. But I applaud Jane’s resolve a lot.
Recently, I saw Cindy Sheehan at a lecture and had the chance to talk with her. She told me how liberals will not talk to her any more since Obama was elected president. When Bush was president and she was critical of wars, liberals/progressives embraced her. As soon as Obama was in office, these same people wanted nothing to do with her….
I am from the Anti-Empire school of thought and avowed Socialist. I am not a liberal or progressive by definition. I am not a conservative or Republican either.
I am an advocate of strong public policy where the commons are owned by the public from utilties to transporation to education. I am against the concentration of wealth and the privatixation of the public sector. I believe that healthcare reform should be done only through the public sector.
Jane is an adult and I am not going to tell her what to do or make any other judgments on her.
“So if she weighs the same as a duck…THEN SHE’S A WITCH!!! BURN HER!!!”
You cannot type [edited by mod]…You must be a teabagger. Wow, piece by piece, thread by thread…Now i believe you…Put a robe on and go outside.
Yes. Every single reader and poster on The Daily Kos is an asshole, traitor to the cause and Obamabot.
Sigh.
Even a broken clock is, as they say, right at least once a day. Norquist is a creep’s creep. But then, so is Rahm. And this case may well be Norquist’s one time per day.
Being a liberal means nothing if it is merely protecting our team and going after theirs. Liberalism is about free thought and rational governance. I want Bushco investigated and prosecuted because the evidence of wrong-doing demands it. The same goes for liberals, even more authentic liberals than Rahm.
The croneyism that we are seeing in this administration and in Democratic leadership generally is the worts possible betrayal of liberal principles. So if turning one corporatist rat–Norquist–against another is expedient, do it!
So… an Obamabot. thank you.
LOL. What does MIT have to do with that? It is a great place. Conceptually I support many of the efforts of Jane. What I do not support and I think is totally destructive, is her approaching conservatives and teabaggers. And, no, Chomsky would never support alliances with neofascist groups (as the “conservatives” are). Sorry, but I start believing that Jane is not as political as I thought she was. She has no idea what she is doing.
Thank you, Jane, it means a lot to see you engage with the more reasonable questions about this. You understand as well as anyone that people are going to have questions, we’ve raved about Grover enough around here. But the paradigm has shifted so far off its axis that these new alliances, around single issues, will be the recipe for keeping the Corps and their lackeys off their game.
I’m not sure we’ll win this one, it’s a long shot at best. But Obama learned his lesson, keeping Reverend Wright in the tent long past time. Look how quickly Van Jones got jettisoned for his apostasy with Glenn Beck.
It’s simply a question now of which model Barack Obama chooses to implement for removing “damaged goods” from his team.
The latter.
Well, that wasn’t going to happen, given that there WAS NO OUTRAGE ON THE RIGHT about any of those things…
Any outrage from the Right about those things now has more to do with being anti-Obama than being Pro-Constitution or anything else remotely responsible.
Which was probably your point, so this isn’t to jump down your throat personally…
FunnyWheelieDiva
About a hundred comments back you said you were going to leave.
You’ve MADE your point(s) known, yet you continue to stay, and repeat them over, and over, and over.
So, YOU LIED! Yer still here.
They’re OVARIES, people.
Big brass OVARIES.
Ummm, not sure if your one track brain can handle to concepts simultaneously… but I will try to explain.
1) You state that the “prize” for Dems is HCR! HCR is a bald faced sell out to the medical industrial complex… even a nurses’ union yesterday said it would actually exacerbate patients’ problems. Wendell Potter… whom I trust more than anyone in the HCR debate, says the bill will force millions more Americans into bankruptcy… and insurance co. stocks have soared 52% in the last week. The claim that 30 million more Americans will have insurance is doublespeak for insurance companies will get millions more customers with no regulation (govt transfer of taxpayer money directly to them)! They get to define the fraud that will justify excluding pre-existing illnesses, and as O’Donnell and Potter discussed last night, there is no regulation of the industry in the bill. Enough evidence for you that Americans will continue to get screwed because they will be forced to buy junk insurance and the US is handling over hundreds of millions of dollar to the MIC, no questions asked?
2) Okay… now concentrate really hard… here is point no. 2 and IT IS NOT ASSOCIATED WITH POINT NO. 1!!! This letter has nothing to do with health care… it is about investigating alleged misdeeds and crimes that Emanuel commited while head of Fannie and Freddie Mac.
So, if you can hold two thoughts in your head at the same time, you will see that by keeping our eyes on the prize (which you define as HCR) we should not hold Emanuel accountable.
Ta da….! Completely faulty logic! See?
You make some good points. However, the fact remains that the teabaggers ARE fascists and I am sure you realize that. Fascism sucks and alliances with fascists totally suck as well. I dont think Chomsky or any rational leftist would encourage alliances with idiotic teabaggers and I am sure you realize that.
Talk about putting words into ones mouth. Do NOT put words in my mouth.
This is pretty funny. Do people really not realize that civil liberties people on our side and the ACLU were cosigning letters with Norquist and Barr and Bruce Fein all during the Bush years on domestic spying, FISA and other first amendment issues?
I guess when your memory only goes back 15 minutes politics becomes simple to interpret, but it completely ignores that last 9 years.
Absolutely true! And if they thought it was a truly important thing to get done (which the President asserts over-and-over-and-over again) then why not simply move up the implementation dates. F**K these were the same folks that were talking about “triggers” being acceptable since it wasn’t such an emergency!
The Democrats KNOW that they would have to pass something on Health Care soon or fall on their face. The Republicans want to have a stop-gap effort with as many compromises to the insurance industry pass as well, and have the implementation date pushed down the road. Then, when there is no effect they’ll clean up Senate and House seats right and left because the Democrats will be seen as ineffectual in a crisis. “It was a USELESS BILL” they’ll scream. “We Didn’t vote for it.”
The Republicans didn’t want a GOOD Bill…they wanted a weak one without their votes.
They wanted the Democrats to foul their own nest with this legislation. And that’s what appears to be what happened.
It won’t be “improved” simply because any “improvements” will reach only a small subsection of people and will require 60 votes once again (as long as they keep these same “rules”). Furthermore the real impact of the bill won’t take effect until 2013. Well except for the “costs”…so watch that 60 vote margin drop.
If the bill passes the future amendments are likely to get worse, not better.
I think people are fed up with the economy and are not going to swallow the typical bullshit anymore. Obama has stumbled into a populist shitstorm. It’s gonna be a long 3yrs for Mr BO if he doesn’t do something tangible for regular Americans.
YOU have to be blind to not see that the wrongs that are going on is because no one stops and makes the corruption go away. Both sides always defend it when they get in power.
Rahm didn’t decimate the Republicans in ’06 or in ’08…that was a fellow named Howard Dean and his 50 State strategy.
There are so many things wrong with your comment that it is quite funny. Of course what is a “replican”? But please stop EXAGGERATING. Stop calling her names, face the issue of Health Care on the basis of facts. JANE HAMSHER DOES NOT COMPROMISE ON THIS. Rahm Emmanuel sold us out and the President supports Rahm is the devil who is giving corporations anything they want.
The Bushies never compromised and they usually won. The Corporate Democrats who gave us this monstrous corporate giveaway, do not fight for health care. They do not fight for Democrats. We still got the neo-con wars. The false flag ops are still being concealed. The Neo-cons are still running their spy networks on the American people. But I am not exaggerating as you do. I am not calling the President a neo-con, I am merely saying he is too fearful and weak to fight neo-cons.
Obviously it is also incorrect for you to call Jane a “joke”. Rather, she is making a few Dee Cee villagers cry instead of laughing.
Naive…? Okay, yes I agree it’ll never happen, but, that would be the penultimate prize…! A Congress of the People… For the People…! Wouldn’t you agree…? ;-)
You know… you guys remind me of me when I was younger and I had no idea how the US was screwing other countries (or other Americans for that matter). I thought Clinton was great… because I was ignorant. Then I read “Stupid White Men”…. and is saw the truth behind the DLC and Clinton, who of course employed Rahm Emanuel. Obama is doing the same things… read that book please.
Do some research… pull your head out of bash Jane DK diaries… if you do nothing else watch clips of Bill Moyers ‘the Journal” shows from this year… that man is a national treasure and you can see how much it pains him to expose Obama’s actions in support of Wall Street, corporations, etc…. They are on the pbs.org site.
Please… educate yourself because to support Obama at all costs when you REALLY do not know what is going on is just wrong.
Twain @ 440: “It is offensive to be called names because you have different ideas. So join in, discuss the issues with us and stop the tantrums.” And in between Twain @440 and Twain @455, it was interesting that someone commented about Obama changing his position within the same speech.
Woo! This fucking rocks! I feel so much better not having to be associated as a progressive with that little punk in the whitehouse!
Ok, just had to get that out.
My eyeballs just about popped out of my skull — not there, here! What I saw at DK only made me lift my eyebrows a little bit, and mostly out of worry that Grover will use Jane for his own purposes, and screw her over later. I think Jane is savvy enough to trust Grover only as far as she could throw a wild elephant.
It’s the last few paragraphs of this post that have me gobsmacked. Rahm did what??? And the Chicago Trib — no sleazy rag, by any stretch — reported it?? And there’s been no official investigation? WTF!
I came to the conclusion a long time ago that we should have iron-clad rules barring congresscritters and high government appointees from taking lobbying jobs, and vice-versa. Do we also have to bar government officials from running for elected office, for fear of this level of malfeasance?
I’ll tell Dean Baker and Bob Borosage know that only Obama is allowed to make alliances with Republicans:
http://www.ourfuture.org/news-release/2009125115/left-right-coalition-says-senate-banking-committee-must-delay-vote-bernanke-
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
12/15/2009
LEFT-RIGHT COALITION SAYS SENATE BANKING COMMITTEE MUST DELAY VOTE ON BERNANKE RENOMINATION
Letter Sent To Committee in Advance of Thursday Hearing; Group Also Behind Effort to Audit Actions of Federal Reserve at Early Stages of Financial Crisis
WASHINGTON – In a letter to members of the Senate Banking Committee today, a coalition of liberal and conservative leaders, strategists, activists and public interest advocates called for a delay of the nomination of Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke to a second term.
The coalition includes Campaign for America’s Future co-director Robert Borosage, Americans for Tax Reform president Grover Norquist, Campaign for Liberty president John Tate, Center for Economic and Policy Research co-director Dean Baker and FreedomWorks president Matt Kibbe.
Borosage said it’s simply astounding that the Banking Committee plans to vote on Bernake’s nomination for another term after only a couple of hours of desultory hearings with the chairman.
“We know that Bernanke’s errant views contributed directly to the worst financial collapse since the Great Depression,” said Borosage. “He was blind to the housing bubble, wrong on the dangers of unregulated over-the-counter derivative trading, wrong on the scope of the crisis once it began, and was late to respond.”
Borosage said that at the very least, the Senators should probe why Bernanke was so wrong, what in his ideology and worldview was mistaken and how has he adjusted his position.
“This is not ‘Monday morning quarterbacking,’ in the inane words of Sen. Evan Bayh,” said Borosage. “It is vital to any judgment of the Bernanke nomination – and any notion of accountability.”
The Federal Reserve took unprecedented actions in an attempt to prevent widespread financial collapse and the letter calls for a full review and accounting of the trillions of dollars committed to private institutions before moving to nominate Bernanke to a second term. Bernanke has opposed such a review, and has declined questions from Congress about the taxpayer dollars lent by the Federal Reserve to banks and other private entities.
“Bernanke outrageously alleges that this would constitute a ‘takeover of monetary policy,’” said Borosage. “But the unprecedented steps taken in the bailout are a far remove from monetary policy. It is disingenuous at best to conflate the two.”
The complete letter follows:
December 15, 2009
Dear Members of the U.S. Senate Banking Committee:
We strongly urge the Senate Banking Committee to delay its vote on the nomination of Ben Bernanke to a second term as Chairman of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve played a central role in the events leading up to the economic crisis and the subsequent response to it. Before deciding to reappoint him to the country’s most important economic policy-making position, the Senate should thoroughly review the conduct of the Federal Reserve under his leadership. Specifically, the Senate should have a more thorough knowledge of the actions that Mr. Bernanke took as Chairman during this economic crisis that involved actual or potential commitments of literally trillions of dollars to private financial institutions and foreign central banks.
These actions have remained secret. Congress needs to know who received the benefit of the Fed’s support as well as the terms of those deals. Who was denied support and for what reason? Congress regularly scrutinizes spending sums that are less than one thousandth of the amount that the Fed made available during the crisis. It is inconceivable that the Senate can offer its advice and consent on Mr. Bernanke’s nomination without some greater knowledge of his actions.
During the crisis, the Federal Reserve and Treasury worked together in the emergency, making decisions on an ad hoc basis. The terms and conditions of these decisions must be probed. For example, what was the arrangement made with Citibank by the Treasury and the Federal Reserve? What negotiations actually took place in relation to Goldman Sachs and other AIG counterparties? The Senate Committee should demand a full investigation of those transactions, including an investigation of the contemporaneous documents and notes.
During the crisis, the Federal Reserve made swap arrangements that could have led to the transfer of hundreds of billions to foreign banks. Surely taxpayers have every reason to know under what terms, what authority, and for what reasons the Federal Reserve decided to make available huge sums to foreign banks.
These are indicative of the serious questions that should be probed before Mr. Bernanke’s nomination is voted upon by the Committee. We simply cannot go through the worst financial crisis in generations and rubber stamp the nomination of the Chairman who was at the helm when the ship hit the iceberg.
In addition, we believe no further action should be taken on Chairman Bernanke’s nomination until S. 604 receives a stand-alone vote in the Senate.
Sincerely,
Dean Baker, co-director, Center for Economic and Policy Research
Robert Borosage, co-director, Campaign for America’s Future
Danielle Brian, executive director, Project on Government Oversight
Tom DeWeese, president, American Policy Center
Sandra Fabry, executive director, Center for Fiscal Accountability
Terry Francke, general counsel, Californians Aware
Gary Kalman, Washington Director, Public Interest Research Group
Matt Kibbe, president, FreedomWorks
Leland Lehrman, president, Mother’s Arms
Chuck Muth, president, Citizen Outreach
Grover Norquist, president, Americans for Tax Reform
John Richard, director, Essential Information
David Swanson, cofounder, AfterDowningStreet.org
John Tate, president, Campaign for Liberty
Rob Weissman, president of Public Citizen
John Whitehead, president of The Rutherford Institute
You have really gone over the edge. Back on your meds.
But this is not a civil liberties issue. This is about health care. Sorry, but you are going the very wrong way. The only thing that “alliances” with neofascist wingnuts achieve is to legitimize them.
Ding ding ding ding…
Neoliberals to the core… I saw a youtube video of Obama addressing the Hamilton Project and applauding their work on the ‘free markets’… blew my mind.
Also… go to youtube and search on Obama and Empire by a guy named Pilger… from July of this year.
Fantastic in that it lays the truth out for all to see… but then he ends on an optimistic note at the end citing all the positive things happening as people begin to see the truth and stand up to the neoliberal bastards.
Jesus – Grover Norquist of the GOP.
Can’t support this no way no how. Bad move.Blogs comparing us to Noquarter now.
and how are you going to make corruption go away? sign a petition? How happy will you be when the scumbag republicans take over? They will laugh at us becuase they used people like Joan of Arc Hamsher to turn us against each other….If you go not believe the bill can be improved and that democrats are as bad as republicans, then shoot yourself or move…there will not be any changes as long as we keep letting those scumbags back into office.
I really did not mean the blind comment to be demeaning. I was were you were at just a few days ago. I sent letters to the white house calling them every name in the book. But Jane only knows what she has been told and none of us really know what happened in the negotiations…I am done fighting with people i respect but disagree with…
Merry Christmas!!
So, seriously, in this case you do believe the tail wags the dog?
dham straight!
Well given that over half the commentators on this posting are trolls and newbies rather than the regulars (who do comment on the torture and warrantless espionage of US Citizens issues) I still don’t see your point.
The topics on this site are diverse. It’s not simply a civil liberties site. Never was. In fact, it’s a bit of a inside joke that it was called a “foul-mouthed lesbian fem-blog” about a year ago when Marcy said a dirty word on MSNBC and jaws dropped.
*G*
Don’t MATTER if Holder acts on it or not, casting the j’accuse is in of itself a disturbance in the force.
As was the previous action with a right winger.
Classic guerrilla tactics so far . . . within a much LARGER context with which I figure she’s working on = it’s classic.
*G*
Great call, JC . . .
You get it wrong. I am NOT defending Obama and I agree with you in principle. The Obama administration has been a huge disappointment and I regret my vote for him in the primaries. You are right on the issues. Where you are VERY wrong is making alliances with “conservatives”. JMO.
Hampsher can do whatever she pleases, but her credibility has dropped below zero and dipped straight into the “laughable/mentally ill” spectrum.
Heh heh, hi MSOC. And here we are again, eh?
Here’s Kevin Drum of motherjones.com/kevin-drum:
“Apparently Jane Hamsher has decided that a healthcare bill that provides a trillion dollars worth of benefit to low and middle income workers is so odious that mere opposition isn’t enough. Nor is opposition that increasingly employs the worst kind of right-wing talking points. No, it’s so odious that it deserves a scorched earth campaign against the Obama White House in partnership with Grover Norquist. Hard to know what to say about this. What’s next? A joint Twitter campaign with Sarah Palin? A letter writing campaign cosponsored by Richard Viguerie? A joint lawsuit with Orly Taitz? Jeebus.”
Obama didn’t “betray” the Party. On the contrary, the DLC ilk inside the Democratic Party utterly abandoned the New Deal and The Great Society components of liberalism under Bill Clinton. The Clintons, Emanuels, Geithners, Summers et al have either molded and manipulated Obama into following their flagrantly Wall Street, health care industry agenda or Obama never had to be molded and manipulated in the first place.
I agree that Obama is the lesser of two fucking evils here, but to pretend Jane is hell bent only on pursuing some sort of irrational, personal agenda against Obama and Emanuel is preposterous. Like many of us, she is grappling to reconcile what she thinks and what she feels about this charade that has been health care “reform”. She is outraged at how these decks are stacked over and again by Wall Street sycophants like Rahm Emanuel.
We can agree or disagree about the way she goes about it. But what you are doing to her is just what you accuse her of doing. You make her the argument rather than dealing with the soundness of her argument itself.
Quote: “I’ll tell Dean Baker and Bob Borosage know that only Obama is allowed to make alliances with Republicans.”
Oh Jane. To refer to Grover Norquist as a “Republican” — as if that’s all he is — is disingenuous and you know it.
God forbid, if anything were to happen to Glover or Jane now, we’d know EXACTLY who was behind it.
Hey Rahm! Hey Obama! Coming to get ya!
Go Jane!
I guess when your memory only goes back 15 minutes politics becomes simple to interpret, but it completely ignores that last 9 years.
*bravo* Jane…!
BTW, Marc Ambinder is saying…
Ah yes, msoc. Who was so disdainful of her glamor shots at myleftwing that she moved ‘em so you had to scroll down to see them.
Brave girl!
cinnamonape,
Yes, you’re right….Those have been Democratic Party lies because people like Paul Begala and James Carville refuse to give Howard Dean any credit and consistently try to elevate Rahm Emanuel’s profile. John V. Walsh exposses the Democratic Party’s fraud of fawning all over Rahm Emanuel at Counterpunch.org in his article entitled: “Rahm’s Losers: The War Loses, Voters Win,” from November 11 / 12, 2006. Here is an Excerpt:
“….On these electronic pages during the electoral season we have tracked the machinations and motives of Rahm Emanuel….Rahm chose 22 key races, open or Republican seats, where Dems might win. By any reasonable criteria, all the candidates chosen by Rahm, save perhaps for one, were pro-war as is Emanuel himself. In two cases Rahm had to put in considerable dollars and effort in the primaries to drive out antiwar candidates. He drove out Cegelis in Illinois’s 6th CD, at the cost of one million dollars, in favor of Tammy (“Stay the course”) Duckworth who lost in the general election. In California’s 11th CD primary, Emanuel backed the prowar Steven Filson who lost to the antiwar candidate, Jerry McNerney, who went on to win in the general election….Looking at all 22 candidates hand-picked by Rahm, we find that 13 were defeated, and only 8 won! (3) (One is still undecided.) And remember that this was the year of the Democratic tsunami and that Rahm’s favorites were handsomely financed by the DCCC. Tammy Duckworth, for example, was infused with $3 million ¬ and was backed in the primary by HRC, Barack Obama, John Kerry, etc. The Dems have picked up 28 seats so far, maybe more. So out of that 28, Rahm’s choices accounted for 8! Since the Dems only needed 15 seats to win the House, Rahm’s efforts were completely unnecessary. Had the campaign rested on Rahm’s choices, there would have been only 8 or 9 new seats, and the Dems would have lost. In fact, Rahm’s efforts were probably counterproductive for the Dems since the great majority of voters were antiwar and they were voting primarily on the issue of the war (60% according to CNN). But Rahm’s candidates were not antiwar….So Rahm Emanuel nearly seized defeat from the jaws of victory….”
Rahm’s Losers in 2006: Darcy Burner (WA), Phyllis Busansky (FL), Francine Busby (CA), John Cranley (OH), Jill Derby (NV), Tammy Duckworth (IL), Diane Farrell (CT), Steve Filson (CA), Tessa Hafen (NV), Mary Jo Kilroy (OH), Ken Lucas (KY), Patsy Madrid (NM), Lois Murphy (PA). Winners: Brad Ellsworth (IN), Kirsten Gillibrand (NY), Baron Hill (IN), Ron Klein (FL), Harry Mitchell (AZ), Chris Murphy (CT), Heath Shuler (NC), Peter Welch, who was apparently antiwar (VT). Undecided: Joe Courtney (CT).
Read the entire article @:
http://www.counterpunch.org/walsh11112006.html
It would be fun to see Gibbs announce his own dismissal subsequent to that announcement.
There are no Republicans of unimpeachable character. There are no ethical Republicans. If you’re looking for a left-right alliance among only the ethically pure and unsullied, you will not find many. There are none on their side and few on ours.
This ain’t beanbag. And everybody has a history.
Tell me you did not just say this:
You mean you’ve been fighting your guts out here for the past 500 plus comments and you never even read the post?
The letter with Grover is about Fannie/Freddie and the transparency of the bank bailout, just like the Bernanke letter was.
This is just silly.
hey, that’s not fair. Orly Taitz was taking this approach long before Hamsher worked her way up to it!!!
Chomsky has signed letters with Holocaust deniers.
You think Rick Warren is superior, I guess.
i typed to fast to get republican correct…Jane is exaggerating and using inflammatory rhetoric…Glad you have her to follow. I do not agree and think you all are whipping yourselves into a frenzy..
If liberals can align with conservative on a few key issues, why not? There’s enough populist rage directed at the D.C. establishment to go around.
I thought when Alan Grayson and Ron Paul got together for their “Audit The Fed” thing was AWESOME. Why not take a similar tactic on the grassroots level?
Holy crap. Grover Norquist? Jane, you really are a glutton for punishment. The howls of terror and outrage will go off the scale now.
You can be assured that the subject of Hamsher will fill the rec list at DKos for yet another day.
Beyond that, FRY RAHM!
Jane,
Yes, I notice David Swanson’s name there. I could never criticize Swanson with all the ground breaking work he has done and continues to do. I have his latest book.
Jane, you are doing just fine. I support you anyhow!
In my opinion, Obama is a Blderberger.
Now, what do you think I mean by that?
I’ll give you a hint:
Tim Geithner, Larry Summers, Robert Gates, Hillary Clinton and James Jones are all Bilderbergers.
Calpundit’s a milquetoast, always has been.
That was the thing that most impressed me a few years ago. I was in grad school in Texas and staunchly opposing every single damn-fool thing Bushco did, and in Texas that made you automatically a traitor. The Bruce Fein started screaming to anyone who would listen that every single stinking thing Bush did was unconstitutional. It was electrifying and edifying. Respect for the Constitution and the electorate/taxpayers is not the sole province of any one party or wing of a party.
In a perfect world, we would be able to accomplish our goals in a hermetically sealed progressive bubble. The last time I checked, though, this rock is far from perfect. There’s a great saying that pops up in multiple cultures: “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” … at least for a while. I suspect you know perfectly well just how far you can trust Norquist.
I love Moyers….Look just because somebody disagrees with you, does not mean they need to get educated…You sound like an evangelical who belives i could only be straightened out by meeting Jesus..
These are not the times those laws were drawn and enacted.
These are the times of a piece of wedge legislation being put into place that will NOT be changed for the better and that empowers the corporate interest and disempowers the people.
The wedge being to attack Social Security and Medicare, and eliminate ALL entitlement programs.
Then the wedge is used to beat back Roe v Wade, civil rights act, and all those lovely legislations of yore we take for granted today. Make no mistake, it’s ALL being threatened, and this phony HCR bill is the wedge, the nose of the camel under the tent of all things that benefit the people in any way.
But thanks for the history, of which we all know.
Jane, thanks. More shit storms please. The status quo in DC is wrecking America.
But I have to admit, I’m surprised Grover agrees. He’s not really know as a lover of good functioning government. Riping off the middle class to benefit the rich is right up his alley.
Again thanks, and be careful!
The longer you post the more child like you sound. I am starting to pity you.
They don’t want to see the forest for the trees. They are always going to think we fought the good fight but we lost. They are never going to look for a solution to the fact we have been taken over by corporate overlords who only use them to the extent they are needed.
I am not content to sit back and be a loser happy that we “tried”. WTF does that mean. Jane is right no one would have given that letter a second thought without Grover’s signature.
I don’t know if it is self preservation or what it is that people just do not want to wake up to reality and where this country really is right now. We just gave insurance and big pharma A TRILLION DOLLARS.
Butterfly nets make wonderful head coverings.
Interesting thread.
Are we going to go on with that shit again? If you are drowning, are you going to refuse to be rescued by a Republican lifeguard? If you are a lifeguard are you going to check whether the drowning person you try to save is a teabagger first?
If you need blood, are you going to require that the blood only come from a certified and pure lefty?
A crime is a crime is a crime. Corruption is corruption is corruption. It is totally irrelevant whether those calling out the crime or corruption is a lefty or a righty or an outright flake.
Get OVER it.
This is probably the calmest site on the Internet. It stays that way until the trolls arrive.
Jane,
Have you seen the letter in the link in comment @ 135?
I responded in comment @ 465.
Outstanding. Sorry I was a pain in the ass yet again the other day…
Ouch…stop making too much sense…
All i can say is touche
I am as unhappy as many. I beleive the fight with republicans is a war. If we show any weakness, we loose. they always win because liberals have beliefs that go beyond cutting taxes for the rich and following Jesus.
Merry Christmas!
Obama is actually a Trilateral…..
*ding* What a concept…! Some people just can’t seem to grasp it…! ;-)
Exactly, I pointed out the same thing about 350 comments ago. They just come here to spew.
Understatement :)
Now that would be the understatement of the entire thread…! ;-)
Damnit…! Whatcha drinking…? ;-)
I think most of them grasp it. It just scares them. They might get outflanked.
Just as surely as your calls for Lieberman’s wife to get fired were all about your concern over the size of her compensation.
More than i bargained for!!! I am beginning to feel like the kid whose parents are having a knock down drag out in the next room….None of us should be fighting too viciously!!!
Merry Christmas Twain!
Jane is forcing the assholes who used us to get power last year and who now want to blow us off to hear us and to do what’s right for the American people.
You first, pal.
When the corruption goes away I wont care about the Republicans any more… like I said they are not 100% wrong and you are not 100% correct. We are all just normal Americans when corruption is not making us into Left and Right monsters to be slain.. i think your extreme point of view of the right is childish… just as theirs of liberals is childish.
To oppose something just because of your own demonization of the right is ridiculous.
How does the corruption get cleaned up? This can be done… look up MLK … Edward R. Murrow… Exposing the truth… electing new people … taking legal action like this one on this thread to force people to openly talk about it and therefore expose more truth… and lies… How was McCarthyism stopped?
Eisenhower warned us about the corruption of the Military – Industrial complex… his prediction came true… we must FIGHT!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_industrial_complex
This is our present reality…..
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.
It is obvious now that Kevin Drum is one of “those people” who think that criminality and corruption is OK if Obama and Democrats do it, and ONLY really something to fight and deal with if it is committed by a Republican.
Nice.
Whoelse here is of that mode of thinking? Who else thinks that because this is a DEMOCRAT that we should just sweep it under the rug and poo-poo it?
You people that think this way? GO AWAY AND NEVER VOTE AGAIN. YOU ARE RUINING THE COUNTRY!
Champagne, of course. Drinking a toast to Jane. and the pups.
Guilt by association and straw men… the tools of a dishonest argument.
Merry Christmas – do you have snow?
Dear Jane:
You go girl… I mean m’am.
This isn’t trick to find out where i live and come and get me, is it?? I just shared some random thoughts..Please don’t come and kill me!!!
Just kidding!
No snow in Carolina…
I am signing off!!!
You do have a progressive challenger. That is Dennis Kucinich.
The point is to compare the emotion on this site over this issue with the emotion typical of this site when it comes to torture. Since this issue was raised in the context of a statute of limitations about to expire, I was wondering why there wasn’t a similar outpouring of numbers and emotion over the eight-year statute of limitations applicable to torture about to run out. I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.
No doubt, but to me, this sure feels like an incredibly cynical play to grab some cable face time. It’s risible to think that Grover has any honest interest in Ms. Hamsher’s underlying issue. The collateral damage will be a bitch. And for what?
Exactly. Which is what every single democratic senator is saying on television “I wanted a public option, but at the end of the day…” HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT YOU WERE FOR THE PUBLIC OPTION AND NOT SIMPLY LETTING NELSON/LIBERMAN TAKE THE HEAT FOR IT DYING?
Ok, get rid of the public option fine. Get rid of the medicare buy in. But a sense of frustration for me is knowing that any other common sense regulation that could be added, ones far less controversial, will likely never get into the bill if the insurance companies don’t like it. Because at the end of the day… bought and paid for senators will do their masters bidding.
And unlike the Obamabots here ranting for us to take it down a notch… I am not complacent in this corruption, nor should be marginalized/alienated for feeling so.
Deciding to let bygones be bygones concerning predecessors from another party can be spun as magnanimous and bipartisan. Refusing to look into your current party’s Chief of Staff is difficult to spin. If Obama were smart, he’d throw Rahm under the bus of populism and hop on it himself. Gotta have a scapegoat and Jane just gave him one that both sides will now buy. May not get this chance again!
I could swear I smell shit in the direction of that fan over there.
Jane, I seriously hope your efforts gain traction, but if the Justice Department does take action and things begin to get too hot in the kitchen for Rahm, I hope someone, anyone will pull his passport before he gets to the airline gate. Rahm holds a duel citizenship with Israel and it wouldn’t be the first time a crook tried to escape through the back door. Marc Rich a perfect example.
Jesus christ… have you nothing better to do than toss tomatoes at people?
I don’t go over to the bash Jane threads at DK and yell at everyone because I don’t agree with them. That would be stupid.
You’ve made your point multiple times…
O! O! O! a lead-in!
You’re Soaking In It
It is clear by your comments that you do not HAVE KNOWLEDGE of the depth of neoliberal behavior that has been foisted on us this past year. Or perhaps you know but don’t care, which is even scarier. Cus then you would simply be an Obama worshipper.
Go for it. Sleaze bags come in all sizes – and from both parties. Of course, Holder’s unwillingness to investigate the astronomical shit load of corruption and lawbreaking from the Bush era portends zero action on this, but I’ll sign on.
Au contrare… apparently we are whipping YOU into a frenzy! Consider yourself whipped…
Pause and reflect upon what you said…! Jane’s not saying ‘Kill the Bill’ because she’s demonizing the Right, nor would she be co-signing a letter with Norquist, to the AG because of a vendetta against the Right…!
I agree. It’s amazing how many people are willing to blindly follow. How many people are okay with corruption and criminals so long as they are in your own party. I don’t always agree eith Jane, but I admire her for what she has done for America. She doesn’t have to do any of this. I’ve had to check my anger here for the last two days. I am mad as hell and will fight on because of people like Jane.
I had to point the same thing out to LynnDee… all the dkosers are so inflamed that you would have the temerity to question their leader re health care… it is the only prism they know!
Oh, i am whipped but not by your ideas!
Merry Christmas!
Well, we tried making alliances with Democrats, and that didn’t work out so well.
Good point…anyone who does not agree with you needs KNOWLEDGE…In capital letters..
Merry Christmas!
Thank you for this Jane!
707, man! Understatement of the day…
FWDiva
In this case, while the enemy of my enemy is most certainly NOT my friend, they can be my ally. Just don’t turn your back on Norquist and make sure there are never any bathtubs near the two of you…;-)
That’s exactly why this needs to be done. We need the angry right as well as the left and the center to realize and embrace that it is not right vs. left that is the real problem, it is the people vs. the corrupt. Independents are also very likely to be more impressed with progressives who are willing to take on corruption even when it is their own party members than Republicans who only go after Dems. Progressives need to take back the Dem message and win over the Independents. We have to counter this left wing liberals are the antithesis of Independents who are centrist and moderate. The bottom line is that we do need to root out corruption wherever we find it. You can’t say you are against corruption or war crimes or anything else but look the other way when it might do you political harm. Can we really afford a country where politics trumps right to the benefit of wrong?
Vintage Greenwald:
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/12/did-rahm-emanuel-lie-about-his.html
I feel like I just wandered into a thread over at No Quarter.
Jane explains how this came about and why in the comment @ 262. Not sure it matters whether Grover has any honest interest in Ms. Hamsher’s underlying issue. I don’t know Jane personally, but I have learned enough about her to know that she’s willing to take attacks against her if it means advancing what she believes in. Anyway, your assertion that what she’s doing is “an incredibly cynical play to grab some cable face time” is nonsense. She doesn’t do cynical plays and she didn’t need to do this to grab face time on tv. Go back up and read the post if you’re still searching to understand why she did this.
I agree.. I was replying to someone else. I respect this move from the people on this site for the same reason I respect Ron Paul and his original non-teabaggers… Refraining from mud slinging for the fun of mud slingings sake… and instead demanding honest debate, honest professional work from of the people we hired and sent to D.C., respect for the Constitution, and an interest not in just WINNING… but simply solving problems honestly… if the numbers dont add up then just say so… let the chips fall where they may … dont just try to game the system to get your way… no matter if you are left or right.
Sweet, M’dear…! Mahalo…! ;-)
To be sure.
Right now, inside the obama administration [or advising it], the following are either bilderbergers, Council On Foreign Relations members or Trilaterals [or often linked to them]:
Zbignew Brzezenski
hillary clinton
tom daschel
rahm emanuel
michael froman [a rubinite]
robert gates
tim geithner
eric holder
james jones
mark lippert
george mitchell
janet napolitano
jack reed
susan rice
bill richardson
robert rubin
eric shineki
larry summers
mona sutphen
paul volcker
Some of them with sound liberal credentials. But when it comes to Wall Street, they all play the game.
This paragraph is all we need to know to scroll on by your ridiculous comments… Clinton is the “master”? Yes, at being a corporate shill, selling out American workers (NAFTA) and signing the bill to undo Glass Steagall so the financial meltdown could happen. Read Stupid White Men before you do anything else.
Unfuckingbelievable… not to mention that Howard Dean’s 50 state strategy is what won the Dem seats in 2006… educate yourself… it’s embarassing!
“Rahm is Right-Wing enemy number 1. He decimated the GOP in 2006. He’s set to decimate them again in 2010, because he NEVER EVER EVER let’s them outflank him or give them a stranglehold or any political purchase. That was what he learned in the Clinton White House from the master himself. And Obama is no slouch in that department as well, he knows talent when he sees it.”
God I love bipartisonship.
But since you clearly haven’t the faintest idea what “the emotion typical of this site when it comes to torture” actually is, and has been whenever a new court ruling or DOJ filing comes out, this is just so much Blah Blah Blah. Not to mention that there is a lot more than mere “emotion” offered here on the topic.
Beat your dead hobbyhorse (waahh, FDL isn’t worked up about torture!) as much as you like, but trying to convince any long-time Emptywheel/FDL followers that they’re “mistaken” is a waste of your time and energy.
FWDiva
But what if one of those calling out the crime has worked closely in assisting convicted and indicted criminals, like Jack Abrabmoff and Tom Delay and has worked to corrupt the workings of the government, by funneling money into pac to elect, even more criminals.
How do you square that, Jane?
Joan Walsh lied tonight saying Obama “never promised a public option.” Elijah Cummings is another Obama apologist. Let’s review what Emperor Obama said about the “public option.” Here it is, right out of Obama’s own mouth:
“….Now, I’ve also said that one of the options in the insurance exchange should be a public insurance option. (Applause.) Let me be clear — let me be clear. It would only be an option. No one would be forced to choose it. No one with insurance would be affected by it. But what it would do is provide more choice and more competition, and put pressure on private insurers to make their policies affordable and treat their customers better. (Applause.)Now, think about it. There’s some folks who’ve said, well, this is a government takeover of health care. We’ve got public universities and private universities; nobody says that we’re taking over private colleges. (Applause.) What we’re doing is giving students a choice. You should have a choice the same way in your health care. (Applause.)…First, I won’t sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficit — either now or in the future. Period. (Applause.) Part of the reason I faced a trillion-dollar-plus deficit when I walked into the door of the White House is because too many initiatives over the last decade were not paid for — from the Iraq war to tax breaks for the wealthy. I won’t make that same mistake when it comes to health care….”—–Barack Obama Remarks @ Healthcare Reform Rally at the University of Maryland, College Park from September 17, 2009.
Jane,
I have always been… and remain… a big fan of your work and your outspokenness. And I dislike Rahm Emanuel as much as the next self-respecting liberal.
But signing on to anything with Grover Norquist is beyond the pale. You shouldn’t have done it.
Peace,
Andrew
You’re one reason I’ve enjoyed the Lake so much for so long…! Intelligent discourse without too much ad hominem and/or inane attacks…! ;-)
Btw, Welcome to the Lake…! Where the waters run wide and deep…!
“It is obvious now that Kevin Drum is one of “those people” who think that criminality and corruption is OK if Obama and Democrats do it,”
Kevin Drum isn’t sufficiently liberal for you? That’s just brilliant. Are you weeding out anyone that isn’t foaming from the mouth? If you can refrain from using both upper and lower case, you’ll be ready for the RedState Trike force in a matter of days.
I would have to google Kevin Drum if I wanted to know who they are.
The priority is currently fighting against those who want taxpayers to give the insurance companies a TRILLION dollars.
If you are talking about the Hardball appearance, I just watched it a second time, and she is correct: During the campaign, the phrase “Public Option” never crossed his lips. But in the Jan 31 2008 debate with Hillary, and at other times, he refers to a “government-run plan” and it is unmistakably the PO that he is talking about. Walsh pointed out this distinction.
You’ve got nothing and not a single valid leg to stand on. Grover Norquist did the bidding of Delay and Abrahmoff and Ralph Reed, ripped off indians, diverted illegal funds to a GOP PAC and helped in the establishment of a defacto slave colony in American Somaoa through Abrahmoff and Delay.
How is he in any way shape or form the best Hampsher could do in finding someone from across the aisle to co-sign a letter calling for an investigation of Rahm Emmanuel?
It’s hypocritical and cynical and, just ridiculous. I mean, is it a practical joke?
Just hangin’ and watchin’ the action on the Lake.
Corruption is not the problem. After all, corruption implies wrong doing in a legal sense. Alas, what we have in America today are perfectly legal transactions between Wall Street and Congress. We have very rich and powerful men and women in New York paying large sums of money to men and women in Congress who are charged with passing laws that directly impact on their businesses. This is nothing less than a preposterous conflict of interest.
Why do American voters allow it? How can it be stopped? Find the answer to those questions and a lot will change.
Woo-hoo… My shift has arrived… Funny, ES, Newt, SD, etal…! ;-)
Jane and The Firepups get to be Leviathan in that story, right?
*grinning*
FWDiva
Aloha, CT.
I hope that was all my Troll Feeding/Smacking for the day, but the guy was starting to get on my nerves.
See ya upstairs/around/on another thread?
FWDiva
Most of the politicians in DC are so loathsome that one’s about as good as another. I want to hear what you think about this later when things get really stirred up in the WH. I’ll bet Rahm is somewhere tonight with an absolutely purple face, screaming and yelling and kicking his dog.
A good start would be public finance all campaigns. Kick out every last lobbyist. Don’t allow them any contact with any elected official or their staff for any reason.
Both of these statutes of limitations are about to expire. Please show me the recent numbers and emotion with respect to the statute of limitations on the torture statute. Please do enlighten me instead of comments like “Blah, Blah, Blah,” and “Waahh.”
dude…
I think some of the participants today are not used to seeing Kung Fu practiced as it should be – their heads are a-spinnin.
How are things in paradise?
Heh… I wanna get the 800 this time…! ;-)
Merry Christmas Everybody, even the Jane Bashers! Cant for the life of me figure out why you continue to hang here…but Merry Xmas anyway! Let’s all hope it’s a much better new year, maybe even with HEALTH CARE FOR ALL not just a FEW.
Keep up the great work Jane. Let’s bring that “HOUSE OF CARDS” down!
And i thought yesterday was something. Even more of them today. Really unhinged people.
Right, so make alliances and give validity to K street insiders like Grover Norquist who’s done everything he can over the last couple of decades (along with criminals like Delay and Abramoff) to destroy the voice of voters and propagate a culture of corporate lobbyists, like those from the banks, the ins co.s, Pharma etc.
His only goal in removing Rahm (or attempting to) is to give the admin a black eye if possible, embarrass it, discredit it, punish it and begin to dismantle it, if possible, by removing a very effective player.
As for what Hamsher’s goals are, she’s lost me. How is removing Rahm going to prevent the passage of the bill? Does she really think that it’s imperative that Rahm be removed or he’s going to give trillions of dollars more to the private sector, I just don’t get it. It makes all Liberals look like a bunch of idiots. Useful idiots and she’s a fool if she doesn’t think Norquist is howling his head off in delight right now at this little coup while chomping on a cigar with his lobbyist friends.
Any historian of republican theory would understand the issue as one of corruption. It is the main threat to republics and is caused by a lack of virtue in the leaders. This is a long story from Aristotle through Machiavelli (the other Machiavelli of the Discourses, not the Prince) to the Founding Fathers.
I think this is more Jane and Firepups.
Do your own fucking homework.
Over and Out.
FWDiva
Thanks, Aview,
And Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you, too.
FWDiva
tryin’ to get CTuttle to his 800…
Hell, we’re over 1400 for the 2 threads now.
Yes, and we need many more like him. That is my point. Elect more progressives. In particular men and women who do not allow Wall Street to dictact their votes because they do not rely on Wall Street to fund their campaigns.
But in order to pull this off they need grassroots support from people like us.
Truly unhinged…! ;-)
Dayam Jane… I hope you’re giving the Mods a Xmas bonus…! *g*
LOL!
Kobe lives on!
FWDiva
Ooh, thanks for the reminder. There must still be a “general fund” Donate button around here somewhere, right?
FWDiva
It tells the story of who’s for what.
Nice list and thanks for sharing.
Our reason for wanting to removing Rham is because he is a criminal, he does not have the best interests of the American people at heart. It isn’t okay that he is a corrupt criminal because he has a (D) before his name. You don’t know what jane’s goals are because you either have never been here or have rarely been here. it’s one thing to disagree but you shouldn’t come here expecting that we all need an education from you.
I read the post, thanks, and I understood the rational as stated. I said it felt like that to me. It wouldn’t be the first time the lure of a national platform has clouded someone’s judgment. Just an opinion. Are you discounting my concern over the collateral damage? With all genuine suffering being felt by many, in my opinion, there are far more pressing issues that the right will again uncompromisingly obstruct, and this only enables them. Investigating Rahm will be cold comfort to those who are struggling. And the vainglorious vitriol is pretty damn disturbing to me as well.
Rahm has almost destroyed the party with his chosen candidates in the last few years. He wanted to make sure that the people elected were loyal to HIM not to anyone else. They were supposed to owe him. And, guess what – most of them lost and the ones who were elected are Blue Dogs. Thanks, Rahm.
No one is more shocked by the Left playing a martial strategy, that the Left. The days of bringing a knife to a gunfight are clearly over.
A certain Democratic Congressman from Florida can relate.
You betch’um, Red Ryder.
Rahm’s list has dwindled of late… Parker’s defection is the latest loss…
Remember Harold Ford jr. and Heath Schuler… To name a few… Where are they now…? ;-)
Do you have an alternative? Not saying you need one to disagree. Just looking for one.
Look to our veterans. Look into depleted uranium munitions. It is killing them. You will find allies there if you approach with compassion.
Grover Norquist is a very dangerous and totally immoral man. He has no problem starting wars for profit. He worships nothing but the almighty dollar. I am very disturbed that Jane would decide to ally herself with filth like this and I think it reflects desperation. Very bad move and one that will backfire in the long run.
I am a little shocked myself. Delighted as hell though.
Your comment suggests that you have no idea what the people at Firedoglake have been doing tirelessly for a long time. We’re aware of the pressing issues, thanks. All you just did was drop a suggestion about Jane’s motives based on a generalization about what does or does not cloud people’s judgement.
Well, Heath is one of the leading Blue Dogs. Such a fine, upstanding, truthful guy. And we gave him money. Makes me sick.
No possible excuse for this. Read a little about the man:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Grover_Norquist
He is evil, dishonest and has no morals whatsoever.
Define ‘Ally’… Does co-signing a letter with Grover meet that definition…?
I was more than shocked by this move at the beginning, didn’t see where it was going for a few days, drove myself a bit nuts, and now see the genius. Yes, this is hardball politics at its best. Kudos to Jane!
Methinks you don’t like having your bluff called. Hmmmmmmm.
heh heh heh
Jane–I’m a long time fan; have been from the beginning. I’m a proud Liberal and have worked hard to lobby my own congressional contingent during the last year to include a real public option and to stop giving in to the right. You’ve lost me today, however. The idea that you would actually sit in the same room with Grover Norquist, let alone work with this man on proposing the Obama justice department investigate Emanuel leaves me speechless. Norquist represents the worst of the worst in right wing land as far as I am concerned. His “work” has helped to dismantle much of the social infrastructure that helped to make this country great. This man is a corporatist and is a pro at manipulating the media. He is greatly responsible for the lean to the right by the so-called main stream media. He is, to use the lexicon of the right wing he leads, an evil man and the fact that you have now stooped low enough to work with him means I won’t be visiting your site any longer. I don’t like Emanuel. I would like to see him leave the administration. However, you’ve gone too far with this and in the end, we’re going to help the right wing elect more Senators and Congressmen and women like Senator Demint and Congresswoman Bachmann. I hope you’re willing to accept the consequences of your actions.
Right, this is a “game” move, and if you really believe that it is a game, ultimately you are gonna play a “game” move like this one, and at that point you are revealed as just another inside gamer.
I had until now the illusion that Hamsher stood for a certain kind of political credibility and integrity. Fool me once…
Desperation? It shows strength on so many levels.
Yes, finally someone who is willing to fight fire with fire. As newtonusr pointed out above, no more bringing a knife to a gun fight.
I did lose a good mouthful of a quaffy drink when I read the headline…! ;-)
Excellent work Jane! Getting Rahm out of there may be the best way possible at getting the reform we were promised.
Bring an Uzi, fer christ sakes…! ;-)
I like that idea.
I’ll accept the consequences for my actions so long as Obama, Reid and other failures accept the consequences for theirs.
I’d be far happier supporting their successes than calling out their bullshit, but they made their choices…
Captured my sentiments exactly. Norquist is the sort of man who opposes any semblance of a social safety net. He cares about one thing: his pocketbook. He was in bed with Abrahmoff, and he is the person who should be invesigated.
Fortunately, I think even among the GOP he is somehwat discredited, although this will undoubtedly improve his standing.
What’s next, appearing on Glenn Beck? How about Mark Levin? He thinks Obama is Satan, sure he would accept some help.
For heaven’s sake. Get over yourself. Jane has made a very smart move. And if you don’t think politics is a game to the politicians, I invite you to get really involved. It’s like moving pieces on a chess board. Last one standing wins. That’s the way it works. It’s not pretty but that’s our system.
Pretty much. From where I sit it looks like she’s willing to roll around with filth and expects to come out clean. Norquist is a vile and hateful man. He’s not doing this out of principle, because he has none. He’ll do anything he can to bring down a Democratic administration. I hope that Jane hasn’t become so bitter over this health care battle that she is willing to bring them down at all costs because what is waiting in the wings is more Norquists and Cheneys and Coburns and DeMints and McConnells. I can’t support her on this one.
I guess it is true, there are as many on the Left ready to dehumanize those who disagree with them as there are on the Right. Not everyone drawn to the Right is a batshit crazy racist halfwit. Granted, those are the vocal ones, but sometimes you have to forge coalitions to take down an entrenched system. Everyone can go back to fighting over what comes next later; keeping us fighting with each other is how the entrenched system stays entrenched. I applaud Jane for trying to shake things up.
Don’t like that approach? Great, then work within the system to change it, and let’s see who gets there first. At this point in our history I am more than willing to support as many people taking as many approaches as possible and we can see what works. I don’t have to agree with everything or be right in my guessing about the “best” approach. But I do know that what we’ve been doing has been insufficiently effective.
Obama had this potential within his command to direct an army of volunteers to advance real change, and he squandered it because that’s just not who he is. But this was never about him, it is about us. When the leader declines the mantle it will pass to someone else.
Has it occurred to you that this is about the need to investigate Rahm’s activities at Freddie Mac and not about Norquist?
Agreed. I trust Jane. She’s been at this for a long time. I know one thing, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result at the end was getting old as hell.
Why? Why? Does being a pussy througout the Bush years not tell you why the Dems should FIGHT for what is right? If you are not willing to draw a line in the sand then you get NOTHING… how did the people who do not want reform get this bill to be this bad? They drew a line in the sand… that is how you fight for something. If they could not get the 60 votes? So what. You CAN get 51 and you can pass most of the best parts that way.
Our bodies are NOT for-profit resources. If we are asked to allow our liberty to CHOOSE to be taken away by a mandate then we MUST get in return an iron clad reform for ALL. Otherwise the loss of liberty to choose is immoral.
So the ends always justify the means. Isn’t that how we got here in the first place? If that’s her idea of principle, she’s no better than those she’s opposing. It’s a very slippery slope and it seems she’s begun to slide. Makes my skin crawl to even think about dealing with slime like Norquist.
Funny, you’re not the first on this thread to ask that…! I only would say… ‘God Help, Glenn’… He’d better be prepared…! Poor Lanny never saw it coming…! ;-)
Everything by Queensberry Rules, eh? The time for playing nice is over. If Norquist is willing to go along with us on this, I’m “game.” If Tea Party folks want to join the action I’m “game” for that too.
Gotta run for a bit, Can’t wait to see what happen while I am gone.
I’m a big one for lists, alas.
All I ask people to do with respect to these organizations is to google them, investigate them, look into their membership lists. And then to connect the pernicious dots between Wall Street and democracy in Washington.
Just as Wall Street and the big banks could not possibly care less about whether someone is a Democrat or a Republican in Congress, so too these supra-national organizations [that comprise america's rich and powerful ruling class] could not possibly care less whether or not it’s members call themselves “liberals” or “conservatives”.
Niiiiiice, dood! Post #666 and RUN.
Later.
FWDiva
This has been interesting lately, hasn’t it!
First the outing of Haddie Lieberman, then the BIG win on Faux News, now the Rahming.
If that’s not a spray of hot prog lead across the board I don’t know what is!
*G*
With more to come, likely.
All geared at MAJOR disruption to the status quo, all geared to ensnare and unite disparate elements to rail at the polilticized corporate influences killing our country from left to right, from religious to agnostic, from poor to upper class.
Interesting.
*G*
I am kind of slow, but was this meant satirically?
I don’t trust Jane or any other living human. But I’m willing to see how it turns out. Jane is certainly more savvy about politics than I am. If it turns out badly, so be it. Think it’s worth a try.
Good Gawd, Dood…! Get a grip…! Let me reiterate…
A f*cking letter…?
I thought because the torture cover up was still in full effect, the crimes committed under that illegal policy are actually considered to be legally still on going.
No?
Actually right now the system is he who has the gold rules and buys the rule makers.
But I believe we are witnessing the first baby steps to ‘modify’ that system, doncha know!
*G*
You act as if they are having an affair. They signed a letter which is truthful and accurate. Most of Grover’s groupies will hate him for this. I don’t know what he is doing lately but he is mentioned less and less.
“Not everyone drawn to the Right is a batshit crazy racist halfwit.” That’s true but in this case, this man is one of ugliest, hateful, greedy SOB’s that’s ever lived. He is the enemy of the poor, despises all social programs as being unnecessary give-aways and has never seen a war for profit that he didn’t love. There are principled right wingers but he’s not one of them. He has one love and one love alone and that is $$$$$. As long as those $$$ go to him and his cadre of elite friends. No he’s not a racist. He loves rich people no matter what color they are.
If you can judge a woman by the company she keeps, I’m afraid Jane has just gone over to the dark side. Everyone here can try to justify it if they want to but in the end, it is gonna come back and bite her big time.
Wow, good thing I got home in time to jump in this thread early!
Fascinating.
Oh, and I’m with Jane. It’s so time for some fucking imagination.
Even teabaggers aren’t evil, they’re stuck in a cocoon of ignorance and hysteria that’s been deliberately created for them. Let’s bust that up next.
Queensbury Rules . . .
“Now shake hands and come out fighting.”
*kicksopponentinthenutsfakinghandshake*
Poor Glenn. In this case it would appear that Jane and Glenn are on the same page. He hates the president and HCR. She hates the president and HCR. So why would she attack him?
Jumping the shark yourself.
Way over the top.
Actually, that is not how we got here. We got here by not bruting the bullying tactics. And a bully is only a bully if you don’t punch back. If you do, they almost always turn out to be crybabies.
But the Left has played nice for no less than 2 reasons:
• 1) So-called Democratic politicians are no less beholden to the same interests that the Republicans are.
• 2) The Republicans are willing to do what the other side would not, be impossibly obstructive, to sacrifice the Republic in service to political goals, and as long as Democrats allow them to determine the time and place and terms of a battle, they might as well stay home… And so they do.
‘The universe is more concerned with ends than with means. Beginnings must be clean to be of profit.’
I don’t know if this move is good or bad, but it’s at least going to get the attention of the news media, who might possibly take a closer look at those who are trying to give more money and power to the corporations.
Ain’t it grand…? *g*
I’m only disappointed that too many Beach Haus members consider Jane too shrill…! 8-(
Let me count the ways…! ;-)
In one fashion or another I’ve been following Trilateral Commission and Council For Foreign Relations for decades.
In the past 5 years, I’ve seen folks post incredible history’s about their members, those members family history’s going back to the early 1900′s, and how European money became US money interests in WWW1 and WW2, and is now floating around to become truly global interests.
Connect the dots, and you don’t need tinfoil, the truth and reality jumps out at cha . . . . wars financed and fashioned by families to move money and power, and sell products.
An alternative to what? If you mean partnering with Norquist, the better alternative would be to forget about it completely. The village that gets burned won’t save the it, and will likely salt the earth. It’s the wrong battle at the wrong time. Victory (unlikely to the extreme) would be short lived and singular. In this case, not only will there be no quid pro quo from the allies, they’ll tell stories around their campfires about the look on your faces when they killed you. In this case, the best action, is no action. If you meant the vainglorious vitriol, it should be discouraged. and that it isn’t makes wounder about all the rest.
From Jason Linkins’ “The Rational case for ‘Kill the Bill’” at Huffpost:
It’s important though, to note, that the Howard Deans and Jane Hamshers of the world neither want LITERALLY to destroy President Barack Obama’s domestic agenda in a fit of ideological pique, nor do they want to consign millions of uninsured Americans to their deaths. In fact, they desire the opposite: more Americans safely insured, and more electoral success for Democrats — the kind that comes when Democrats actually keep their promises. You want to talk about people who are, in fact, high on drugs? Let’s talk about the Democratic strategists and their journalistic enablers who believe letting down the base is a good thing.
Actually, I would indeed like to “destroy” the Wall Street agenda behind Obama’s administration health care charade. But more than that I would like to educate those not of “the base” about what I mean by a Wall Street agenda.
Damn she’s good looking.
and accumulate more money and power, of course, and to prevent “the wrong type of people” from accumulating any money or power.
FWDiva
How is this way over the top? Seems to me like Jane is taking on the Obama administration and is willing to side with the likes of Grover Norquist to do it so why would Beck worry? Would they disagree on this issue? I don’t think so.
good move or bad, it’s certainly never dull around here. :)
Personally I do not care which party is trying to derail investigations into Corporate greed, both parties need to be held accountable finally. Otherwise the greed feast will continue forever.
Republican or Democrat, you cheat, you take illegal bribes, you screw over American taxpayers,and citizens, you go to PRISON!
http://www.richmonk31.blogspot.com
They’re good folks . . . . they all engage in ‘the struggles’ for the masses in their own ways. Most all of them do so in their daily lives, too . . . very admirable. Work local to make a difference, they do.
*G*
That hasn’t worked out so well. Just saying.
I approach every wingnut as if they’re poised to go David Brock.
I have no problem whatsoever with anyone going after corrupt politicians of either party. I have a big problem with allying with the likes of Grover Norquist, one of the most corrupt, disgusting, greedy, traitorous SOB’s in modern history to do it. I personally think it’s a very bad move and smacks of desperation.
I don’t think so. The cover-up would be a different offense. The original acts of torture and acts of conspiracy to torture would not have their statute of limitations period extended by a separate crime of covering them up. Moreover, while there is a treaty basis for a charge of not investigating credible allegations of torture, i.e, a cover-up, I don’t know if there is a statutory basis for such a charge.
I know. Brains and looks. If I weren’t such a big-hearted, intellect-admiring person myself, I’d have to consider being pea-green with envy!
Thanks for lightening the mood, btw.
FWDiva
And may I add to GW @667, the IMF and World Bank as part of the structure, also.
Witness the Dopenhagen debacle and plans to impose IMF and WB upon global warmers who don’t meet the goals set. Merely a means to attack and take over and impose more corporate controls for the few over the masses.
If you think she’s good-looking now, you should see her when she’s got her integrity on
If this is what it takes to begin to break through that stonewall between Main St and Wall St, I’m all for it.
While the left and the right are fighting with each other, the people who really rule this country — the corrupt business/govt alliance — are robbing us blind and destroying the country.
When you look at what has happened with the US Treasury, the banks and our economy, it’s undeniable that these are extraordinary circumstances. So it calls for extraordinary measures.
Yep.
LOL almost like a meeting of anarchists and socialists
Justify it any way you want. You lie down with dogs, you tend go get up with fleas.
The one thing we had in the sixties was hope. Amusing that the one thing that Obama sells is hope- that is no coincidence today. Definitely- we should be talking our standard of living and loss, loss, loss. American Victims of corporations. Bad Government. American Pain. They won’t like the weakness it presents- since it is all appearances. A result of no PUBLIC servants.
This statement is worth examining.
Relating Glenn Beck’s meandering presentations to true or false, correct or incorrect, is to accept exactly what he would have you do.
Glenn Beck is one of two things, and possibly both: suffering from a pronounced mental illness, or a huckster/Circus-tent profiteer. Imagining that he has an honest take on any issue goes against everything that his show suggests. He is no less subject to the winds of ratings and/or political opportunism and/or his daily dosing than that other Wind-Sock of Liberty, Bill O’Reilly.
Awwww, and only
9693 more comments to go before hitting 800!But for those wanting to repeat (and repeat and repeat and repeat) thier concerns, Jane is back! Why I Reached Out to Grover Norquist on Fannie/Freddie.
FWDiva
“Your comment suggests that you have no idea what the people at Firedoglake have been doing tirelessly for a long time… ”
There seems too be a lot of the “you have no idea (fill in the blank”) responses to any contrary opinions. And a lot of folks that seem to think they can actually know things that nobody can know.
The fact is, I have a very good idea what the “people at FDL have been doing tirelessly.” One could hardly read Marci, TBogg and Glen pretty regularly without noticing.
The fact that I don’t often comment doesn’t necessarily mean I just dropped in, and that you would assume that should give you pause.
Problem is that Norquist is the corrupt business/govt alliance. He’s part of the Abromoff bunch and never saw a war for profit he didn’t love. On the other hand he hates poor people, hates social programs and hates government regulation. Not exactly the crusader for the American people you would have expected Jane Hamsher to choose to throw her lot in with.
We’re protected by Vectra.
Still doesn’t get to the heart of the original question. Why would he have to worry about Jane tearing him a new one on this issue when they seem to be coming from the same place on this. Now Lanny Davis and she disagreed. He’s all for the current HCR bill and tried to put her down and she (to my delight) nailed him but good. That’s not the case here.
Say what you will, but Clinton accomplished a great deal and oversaw the greatest postwar economic expansion of any president. NAFTA as envisioned by his team and even the removal of Glass Steagall would not have been the issues they became if it wasn’t for the criminallyirresponsible anti-governemnt, pro-corp withering of oversight and regulation that took place under storm of K street gluttons like Norquist,a rubber stamp GOP COngress and Bush 43′s Reaganomics on steriods incompetence.
That said, if I remember correctly Rahm’s Blue Dog strategy was a big success for the DCCC in 2006 along with Dean’s 50 state strategy, but I’m not here to defend the man, I’m here to try and understand what the point is of Hamsher aligning herself with Norquist.
Gonna take a little more than Vectra to protect you from folks like Norquist. LOL. He drinks Vectra for breakfast.
Read here.
Just read it. Nothing new, or abnormal, or out of character about this/these alliances.
This is the way to go. We need to unite as Americans not left and right. I have been watching and reading this past year and see outrage from all walks of life on the bailouts, health care, the spending on wars – you name it. I have also thought that if we could somehow unite on many of these issues we could effect change and that is what Jane is doing – bravo, Jane. I am with you.
I’m not sure why you’re on this site.
1. You’re one of those Obama bots they speak of.
2. You work for the health “insurance” industry.
Off of the top of my head, those are the two reasons why you’re posting on a site you obviously don’t agree with.
We have answered about 6000 times and so has Jane. You don’t agree so you just ignore what’s being said.
So the ends always justify the means. Isn’t that how we got here in the first place?
No actually we got here by doing the same shit over and over. counting on the same criminals to save us over and over. I’m for hoping off the insanity train and trying something new.
Our bodies are NOT for-profit resources. If we are asked to allow our liberty to CHOOSE to be taken away by a mandate then we MUST get in return an iron clad reform for ALL. Otherwise the loss of liberty to choose is immoral.
Yes, because that’s exactly what Grover Norquist is thinking right now. Far be it for him to ever use the law or money or connections to enslave anyone for a buck. Of course not. Do you have any idea how ridiculous you people sound?? And it’s hypocritical although I have brought it up over and over to not address the man’s criminal and foul connections to Abramoff, Delay, Bush 43 and Ralph Reed.
I mean, look, rattle Rahm’s cage all you want, I’m sure he’s not an angel, and I’m also sure he may actually notice this call for an investigation due to the rather creative strange confluence of names at the bottom, congrats you’ve probably accomplished that much and maybe even given him some pause. But, at the end of the day, this country still needs HCR, and this is a beginning, and we have to keep working to make it better. I don’t like the mandate or the fact that the PO was taken out and that the medicare buy-in was nixed as well, or that Obama constantly asks for liberals and progressives to understand and compromise even while he gets to wrapped up with accomadating the Right (and that’s got to stop), but practically speaking this is what was doable, for now and I believe it will get better, because too many people need it too and they do vote when something like health care effects them this personally.
If you say so. Seems to me the underlying motivation might be a little different but if you’re saying that Jane Hamsher and Grover Norquist have the same motivation well, maybe. I don’t believe that Norquist is motivated by anything other than trying to destroy a Democratic administration that may eventually enact some regulations on the rich and powerful on Wall Street, that may eventually put some teeth into the consumer protection agency and FDA. That might even demand some accountability in government. I can only assume that those are the sorts of things he fears the most and he would do anything and work with any one in order to take Obama and his administration down.
We know he wants to get rid of all social programs, we know he wants to get rid of all taxes and all government. In fact he wants to shrink the government down to where he can “drown it in a bathtub”.
So if that’s a suitable alliance for the folks at FDL, hey, that’s your thing. I personally find it abhorrent. But hey, that’s just me.
To use your own words, you are the idiot…
This letter re Rahm has nothing to do with health care reform…. as has been pointed out at least twice on this thread…
I should probably let you muddle in your own trollish concern down here… but perhaps you should read Jane’s current post on the top of FDL right now.
You used the word “eventually” twice. How long do you think it will take unless we get their attention? It’s fairly obvious, IMO, that Obama has a very casual way of doing things – okay, I’m trying to be nice. I want to see that my children and grandchildren have a decent life and not have to worry about the gov’t taking everything they have and giving it to the rich.
Not to mention Marc Rich. It’s the principle of the thing though, and I commend both Ms. Hamsher and Mr. Norguist for joining forces against a common evil.
It really isn’t.
To name just a few:
If handing the health care destiny of the nation over to the same industry that has made a public health catastrophe out of it to date…
If mandating payment to these companies, and handing the enforcement to Internal Revenue…
If further tightening restrictions on women’s health care decisions to soothe the passions of Catholic Bishops and C Street whackjobs…
This is not much of a start, and it could quite possibly be the end.
They don’t actually read the post ES. They just love sippin that hateraide.
Really? It would have been complete apples and oranges if not for the one instance where Dick Cheney and Patrick Fitzgerald teamed up to force an investigation of Karl Rove.
And this bit of rationalization slays me: “…Rahm would take it out on their organizations. That leaves the people on the right — those out of Rahm’s reach.” Apparently unprincipled liberals left her no choice, and when you need a principled conservative, Grover is the go to guy.
But you do what you have to do to get traction on alleged crimes this heinous. I’m with Drum when he says: “…it’s so odious that it deserves a scorched earth campaign against the Obama White House in partnership with Grover Norquist.”
Yes, and don’t forget what Holder did with Marc Rich under Clinton. We can hope for change though can’t we?
And you think the way to do that is to ally yourself with the likes of Grover Norquist to take down the Obama administration? Wow, do you know who is waiting in the wings to take over should the Obama administration fail? Oh yeah, we just had 8 years of them and we were so much better off. Seems to me a lot of people here are using the old any means justify the ends argument.
Jane seemed to be doing pretty well on her own. But the last couple of days have me really questioning her tactics. She’s sounding more like a wing nut every day. I mean Steve “Obama’s a muslim terrorist” Doocy and Grover, “I’d like to shrink the government down to where I could drown it in a bathtub” Norquist? Really? Really that’s the best she can do?
May I use that characterization from time to time? I specialize in insulting the
ReBushlickensReButtlickens… the Retardagains in my anti-fascist rants here. It tickles my fancy.But Jane is a fighter — always has been as far as I can tell. Can’t imagine that changing anytime soon…
“Who dares, wins!”
Who cares about Norquist?
No one asked him to help with anti-war or taxes or any of that.
Your inability to see beyond your partisan hatred is very childish.
ALOT more is doable. 60 votes is not the ONLY way forwards. Just use the 51 you do have and pass those things. Are you even bothering to think? This is all that is doable if they DONT FIGHT. If they DO fight AT LEAST as hard as the republicans there would be alot more here.
I’ll second that emotion…! But, I get miffed when they denigrate me as being a ‘puddle’ jumper…!
And yet, not you nor anyone else will not address GN’s past. That says a lot…
And if this has nothing to do with Health Care why was that the subject of the MSNBC spot a the top of this page?? I’m sure I won’t get an answer to that either. You guys need to take your adderall more regularly.
“We Progressives support you…” I’m a Progressive and definitely do not support anyone who legitimizes Grover Norquist.
I wonder if any of you who are lauding Jane are prepared for what could very well happen in 2010 and 2012 if we continue to attack the Obama Administration on every issue? Frankly, I’d rather have Rahm and Obama than Palin or any other vile figure out there who might end up being our President. I worked hard to get Obama elected and am disgusted with many of the things his administration has done or, worse yet, not done. But I am a realist–he was handed a government and country in complete decline. The right wing, under Norquist’s able stewardship, has almost completely destroyed the social infrastructure that made this country different. Our economy is in shatters. Everyone I know is either unemployed or in fear of losing their jobs. They’ve taken pay cuts and benefit cuts. Frankly, I view this latest line of attack by Jane and her allies as just another person out there trying to get attention and more power. She’s lost me on this one. As someone who started the day on FDL and ended it often by stopping by again, I’ll miss this blog. But I’m tired of the constant attacks and the attempts to get media attention. It’s working great for Jane but how’s it working for the country?
Pot meet kettle. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results in the end. That is exactly what you and the detractors want to keep doing.
The DU apocalypse is just beginning. It does get attention on FDL. Just not enough.
The Clinton “expansion” was totally bogus. It was a BUBBLE! There was NO substance to it. It was the same bubble shit that we had under Bush and that Obama is busy trying to reinflate.
Driven ENTIRELY by low to zero interest BORROWING (not just by government, but by EVERYONE). Bubbles are NOT the basis for sound economies. They are merely sound methods of making Goldman-Sachs criminals even more wealthy.
Rahm Emanuel is destroying a Presidency, and destroying any chance to have something other than a corporatist, profiteering philosophy in all governance. He may be doing this at the behest of his boss, or he may be doing it because he is a shitbird with no conscience or scruples. He is unarguably one of the most powerful persons in the nation, and he is empowered to quite literally run the joint. He may also be guilty of criminal behavior in the aforementioned matter.
I am personally not inclined to allow him to take us down this road, and I would choose my partners to interrupt his path to screwjobbery any place I could find them. I care that you are alarmed by the mere signing of a letter, but I do not care to lose this one a whole lot more. It is just a letter. It is not a proposal of marriage, it does not bind any party contractually, and no one is lying down with someone else’s dog.
As for the argument that Grover Norquist is somehow enhanced by this, I would remind you that Jane Hamsher is far more likely to damage him. Consider for a moment the rabid, skull-fucking Right-Wing vitriol they are capable of, and more than willing to trot out with very little provocation.
Stop teasing. Answer the question. Is Grover Norquist a criminal or not? Does he have a vastly ethically challenged past or not? Does he not make Rahm appear an angel or not?
Why? Explain? Why be bedfellows with a pig just to rattle the cage of lesser pig?
Anyone?
(I can do this all night. Every evasion is another point for me. So score so far:
Skygazer —> 58 (or whatever), JH&theFDL—> big fat 0 (zero)
Yeah, fine whatever.
Is Grover Norquist an ethically repellent individual with connections to criminals or not?
Yes, no. Explain.
If you are looking for people with shady pasts, I would suggest that you take a gander at some Democrats. It might be amazing what you would find.
Fine, we see him investigated and prosecuted right alongside Rahm, a definitive criminal.
But I’m happy to use him to get Rahm first.
Post war economic expansion for who…for whom? Millions of manufacturing jobs [you know, living wage jobs, union jobs] continued to flow over seas under Clinton’s Bilderberg, “deregulatory” tutelage. Look at the jobs that took their place.
Do you actually believe that Clinton was just a dupe here? Why in the world do you imagine he has always been extremely reluctant to disclose who is behind his post-presidency millions? He is a very wealthy man. So follow the money and you will contnect the dots between his personal agenda and the agenda of the Bilderberger clique.
Yes, folks like Clinton are progressive with respect to many liberal causes. But he is a Wall Street flack when it comes to really big [$$$$$] economic and foreign policy agendas. He is Rahm Emanuel in this regard.
I understand that you’re worried about republicans getting back into power, but is Barack Obama really that much different than the republicans? George Bush supported war and corporate welfare. Barack Obama seems to support war and corporate welfare for banks and health “insurance” companies. Think about it.
Seems like we’ve got ourselves some Free Republican on here. Anyone who believes that Barrack Obama is no better than George W. Bush is not paying attention or is neither a Democrat or a Progressive. He may not be what we expected but he is not George Bush.
I’m not alarmed by the letter, in and of itself, it’s worthless. The stated purpose, is aligning with GN to gain media traction- which it no doubt will. I’ve made no argument about enhancing Grover Norquist. Unfortunately,the media traction will only be function of it’s love of a pissing match, and this one will be between a progressive blogger and Obama, no less. Don’t look for any coverage of substance, if there were more than even a hint of substance to the charge, the moneyed ultra right-wing would have long been on it like a cheap suit. But in my opinion, Ms. Hamsher reaching out to GN offered them a freebie they couldn’t refuse. They could not care less about the outcome or it’s underlying principles. Any day they can embarrass this White House is a good day, and they won’t look a gift horse in the mouth. Even if you could, bring down Rahm, it would be nothing but burnt offerings to the causes you care about. I honestly believe that, but obviously and unlike some here, I can’t predict the future.
There’s no ethical reason to hook up with Norquist.
It’s the kind of shit that leaves you with no reason to call out Emanuel for being a double-dealing ass.
Obama has the ability to string more than two coherent words together, even on the fly.
Beyond that, outcome wise, I see no difference.
Hi Pups,
Been here since the Plaine
This is pure logic – wait for the waves to level out.
And then better actions together. Both sides of the politcal fence love this country and we need to work together where we can and get our country back. Basic survival of our democracy makes differences small in comparison. We must work together to survive at this point.
Rahm is not systematically destroying the Republican party – it’s us he’s out to get. He wants all the power in his hands and Obama gave it to him. We don’t fit his plan in any way. He wants the Dems to be “moderate” wingers.
You lost me at Grover Norquist. Do not get me wrong–I hate Rahm. But this is the same man who stated that he wanted to make the Government small enough to drown in a bathtub. So anything he is involved in immediately makes me suspicious. Let me ask an important question–would he EVER and I mean EVER have asked you to be involved in an issue to bring Bush or anyone in his administration down? The answer is a resounding NO!
Queensbury rules? This is a knife fight and when you sign up with Norquist you are stabbing yourself in the back. You think this is “clever”? No, it is blind to history, to goals, to appearances, and to principles. It’s bad tactics and its bad strategy.
Right you are.
Poor ACLU. They never knew they were stabbing themselves in the back by working with Norquist.
And all those other actual Dem “leaders” and such…all self-back-stabbers because of their work with Norquist on common causes.
Oh, that’s right, the silly shit ONLY applies to Jane.
Meh.
and therefore we should insist on a criminal investigation? in conjunction with Norquist?
wouldn’t it be cleaner just to pay for a hit? Jane could have someone put up a little thermometer.
Jane answered that far better than I can. I detest Rahm and have always thought he was sleazy. Grover is hardly one of my favorite people but they just signed a letter. They aren’t dating.
I used to have so much respect for Jane and now I’m beginning to wonder if she has just turned into an investigation crack addict. That is the only reason I can possibly think anyone would ever get involved with Grover Norquist–you just could not help yourself.
I daresay they didn’t even fleetingly hold hands.
At least gbush left South America alone.We are preparing right now to make another oil grab.No wonder there is no money for health care.Our treasury is spent on wars for oil.
A friend of mine is Greek. They are having major riots and are broke.She says the right wing came into power and looted their treasury. Threat to the euro. Sound familiar? No money for health cae after the looting and wars.
To suggest that Jane is a crack addict is out of line at any level. Enough.
You sure? When’s the new National Enquirer out?
LOL
I’m sorry, but maybe you can tell us how it came to pass that the ACLU “reached out” to Norquist? Pretty damned unlikely, but even if they did, to what great benefit?
Somehow, I think the ACLU would have gladly forgone Grover’s getting on-board if it meant undoing half the damage Club Growth, AIE and their ilk have done to the ACLU for years. You can’t borrow the ACLU’s credibility with a false analogy.
Maybe you should learn to read–I said she was an “investigation crack addict”. Not exactly the same thing now is it?
And I said AT ANY LEVEL.
Sorry- you still do not make any sense. In no way was I insinuating that Jane was a crack addict–I was only saying she must be addicted to investigations like a crack addict might become addicted to crack. In no way does that statement say that Jane has anything to do with crack. So “AT ANY LEVEL” does not make sense. I’m not about to get in a pissing contest with you, but I did want to make myself clear for anyone who did not understand my intentions. Jane has always been a great leader of what I would call the “right thing”, but on this one–she chose the wrong person to make her case with her. I could not imagine ANYTHING that would make her do such a stupid thing.
Sorry, Jane, but this is too much for me to stomach. I don’t care for Rahm Emmanuel, I consider Obama a disappointment. But for you to make common cause with Grover Norquist is beyond the pale. He’s against everything you stand for, and he’s using you. You’re a fool to make common cause with him.
I’m with Howard Dean, who’s bitterly disappointed with the health reform bill but willing to try to build on it and see what can be made of it, either in the House-Senate conference or further legislation. It seems that you’ve decided you’re so pissed off that you’re going to try to bring down the Democratic Party. Orrin Hatch is going with FDL posts on the Senate floor. You’re becoming a tool of the Republicans. Is that what you want?
Barack Obama as Reagan of the “New Liberalism”
“…Which brings us to the age of Obama, perhaps — mirabile dictu — the most exhilarating time of all. There is nothing as bracing for democracy as the alternation of power, particularly when it yields as serious, determined and challenging an ideological agenda as Barack Obama’s. This third wave of transformative liberalism — FDR, then LBJ, now Obama — is no time for triangulation. This is not incrementalism. We’re not debating school uniforms. When Obama once declared Ronald Reagan historically consequential and Bill Clinton not, he meant it. Obama intends to be the Reagan of the new liberalism….” —–Charles Krauthammer Washington Post Column from December 18, 2009, entitled: “An anniversary of sorts”
Signed and delivered, thank you, Jane. I think you found the perfect way to box in the media that always dismisses the left as “fringe”. I’d like to see them try it with this! :)
I’m so glad you’re targeting Rahm, who takes great pleasure in “making Liberals scream!” (somewhat paraphrased, but he did say it). What an ass.
First of all, one can say something and mean it without explicitly saying the words. See, the media tries to confuse people and Obama’s apologists are now saying he did not ever say the “public option.” He in fact said other things which were equal if not the same thing numerous times in reaction to his opponents, at debates and rallies. I agree that Obama chose his words very carefully and never wamnted to be pinned down on specifics knowing full well he could never win if he told the truth of his real plans. So, the Obama campaign skillfully stayed away from particulars in the event that later on “Mr. Precious,” the Emperor himself could declare “I never said that,” or “it shouldn’t have been taken that way,” and “my critics need to grow up.” Yet, one can say something in four or five different ways from the English language and it mean the same thing.
“We got our ass kicked in tonight by the other team.” Now, that is not directly saying that their team stunk, but, it does mean that. See, Obama talks in doublespeak. Obama loathes confrontation or challenge to his “intelligence” and anyone who disagrees with him. In this regard, he and Rahm Emanuel are the perfect fit and match. Both Obama and Emanuel are liars and deceivers and will sellout you out fatser than a cat running across the street.
I hope Rod Blagojevich is found not guilty too!!! What the Democtratic Party Senators did in whoring their votes is nothing but bribery itself. Federal prosecutors need to investigate the bribes between the Obama White House and the Democrats in the U.S. Senate.
The Obama White House needs to be investigated and charged with bribery and extortion under the RICO Laws of America!
And that, kind sir, is the difference between those who see the struggle as left vs. right as opposed to top vs. bottom.
Jane gets this. Lanny Davis and his goons are paid to pretend not to get it.
Absolutely! The stakes are too high to be squeamish about cooties!
Yes, the Obama campaign clearly did incorporate the public option into its health care agenda, even as Obama always behaved in a duplicitous manner when speaking, debating and answering questions in a less than forthright and honest way. Here are a few examples of Obama’s Deception at work:
Senator Obama: “Well, look, in my mind reproductive care is essential care, basic care so it is at the center, the heart of the plan that I propose. For those of you that are interested in the details, not plugging my website, [laughter] feel free to go to BarackObama.com….But, essentially, what we are doing is to say that we’re going to set up a public plan that all persons and all women can access if they don’t have health insurance. It’ll be a plan that will provide all essential services, including reproductive services, as well as mental health services and disease management services.” [scattered applause]————————–Barack Obama Campaign Speech @ Planned Parenthood Action Fund from July 17, 2007
“…It’s time to turn the page on health care – to bring together unions and businesses, Democrats and Republicans, and to let the insurance and drug companies know that while they get a seat at the table, they don’t get to buy every chair….When I am president, I will sign a universal health care law by the end of my first term. My plan will cover the uninsured by letting people buy into the same kind of health care plan that members of Congress give themselves. It will bring down costs by investing in information technology, and preventative care, and by stopping the drug companies from price-gouging when patients need their medicine….It will help business and families shoulder the burden of catastrophic care so that an illness doesn’t lead to a bankruptcy. And it will save the average family a thousand dollars a year on their premiums. We can do this….”—Barack Obama “Turn The Page” Speech @ California Democratic National Convention from April 28, 2007
Krauthammer??? Really, dude? That would be laughable if it weren’t so inane.
Dear Jane,
At this point neither liberals nor progrssives should ever come back or compromise with these putrid Democrats. Running scared, both the Washington Post and Politico report that there is movement by the Democraic Party to try and allay the “fears” and “outrage” by those on the left upset with this bill. There is even talk that the Obama White House is seeking now to delay this bill, in order to focus on jobs.
I think the Obama White House might be trying to make sure that Ted Kennedy’s old seat is not lost to the Republican in Massachusetts. If that seat goes to a Republican that could doom this healthcare bill too. Imagine that irony!
I found it kind of interesting coming from him. I read and peruse what they all say and write. I am very familiar with the arguments of the right and the neocons. Thanks.
Jane,
As they say, Go get ‘em and hit em high and then hit ‘em low and then one last to the middle and a down they go!!! Yes!!!
Yes You Can!!! This Is Our Time–Now!!!
Impeach Obama!!!
Jane,
I do understand what you are doing….But, I was onto Obama a long time ago and his duplicity. There were plenty of warning signs…I hope you learned your lessons with Obama.
A new movement is necessary as the old paradigms of activism and protest no longer work very well. If you are totally sincere, then I support ya. Your actions cannot be out of anger or betrayal though, but, only out of a core belief system if it’s to have any long-term impact or sustain itself.
Thanks.
I’m sorry we’re not sufficiently emotional to meet your needs, (whatever they may be). But you do understand that torture has been a big issue here–especially at emptywheel’s place. We just don’t express ourselves in a way that pleases you. After all your ranting, we’ve failed to disregard everything else that’s going on just so we can stroke you. Ahh…for the energy of youth. Have you tried using the search feature here?
What lessons was Jane supposed to have learned with Obama? Were you privvy to her preferences prior to the election? Or even what she believed about him? I never trusted him and really appreciated her resistance to making any endorsement of any candidate.
This One is For You Jane Hamsher!!!!! This article is for you:
December 23, 2009
A Party of Lemmings
Beware the Progressive Democrat
By HELEN REDMOND
Counterpunch.org
“….DON’T TRUST THE DEMOCRATS – NOT A ONE. Especially the progressive Democrats….Millions believed Barack Obama’s campaign pledge to create a humane, affordable and inclusive health care system and rein in the copious abuses of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries. On the campaign trail, Obama proclaimed these corporations were greedy and more concerned about profits and patents than the needs of patients. Some thought because Obama was a former supporter of a single-payer system, he might just enact it when he won the Whitehouse. How wrong they were….From day one there they were, warmly welcomed to the table for the public to see Karen Ignagni, President and CEO of America’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) and Billy Tauzin, President and CEO of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA.) After the sham for the cameras was over, it was off to the much more important “let’s make a deal” meetings (secret, back door, closed, so not transparent) with the Capital Gang: Ted Kennedy, Max Baucus, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi and even President Obama.…The progressive Democrats sold out on single-payer early on when they backed the public option. This created enormous confusion: How could they advocate for both single-payer and the public option when the two are diametrically opposed? It didn’t take long before they all shilled almost exclusively for the public option. Schakowsky spoke at numerous HCAN meetings and rallies, never at single-payer events. Weiner was regularly interviewed by the press and focused the discussion on the public option, not single-payer….John Conyers, the lead sponsor of the single-payer bill H.R. 676, immediately endorsed the principles of Health Care for America Now (HCAN), an organization opposed to single-payer. When confronted by single-payer supporters at a Health Care Now! national conference, Conyers couldn’t explain the contradiction…..The Weiner Amendment was sheer duplicity. Single-payer supporters worked overtime and got arrested holding Nancy Pelosi to her promise of a vote on the amendment. The vote was scheduled but the day before, Conyers and Kucinich called off support for the vote and Weiner withdrew the amendment. But that was okay with the always-waffling Weiner….Next up to the plate was the Bernie Sanders single-payer amendment in the Senate. The Republicans forced the reading of the 700-page bill (no single-payer bill should be that long, H.R. 676 is only 27 pages!) and after 3 hours Sanders caved. He didn’t “have to,” so why did he? Because the doomsday clock was ticking for the vote on the atrocious Senate bill, reading his amendment was wasting their precious time and Sanders fellow Democrats were positively apoplectic. But it was a Stupak, Lieberman, Nelson moment and Bernie blew it. If he had any balls or principles, he would have forced those senators, those members of the “Millionaire’s Club” who have “Cadillac” health care, to listen to every single word in that amendment, for as long as it took….Fuck the Senate bill!….If Sanders was a real socialist he would have committed political suicide and voted against the bill. But instead, a few days later in yet another unbelievable, eye-popping betrayal, he voted in favor of it! He was bought off with the promise of 10 billion for primary care and community clinics….I hope he never gets another good night’s sleep and the truly progressive people of Vermont punish him by throwing his sorry ass out of office and into the dustbin of history….”
“….Back to correct lessons learned. Number one: DON’T TRUST THE DEMOCRATS – NOT A ONE. Especially the progressive Democrats. When push comes to shove they will not stand and deliver, they will back the status quo. The stunning series of sellouts of single-payer must not be forgotten. Number two: We have to build an independent movement for health care that is so large, so powerful, so full of fury and so uncompromising that whatever party happens to be in power is forced to abolish the private for-profit insurance industry and enact single-payer. That is the only way it will happen – by the force of hundreds-of-thousands of people in the streets, sitting in at insurance companies and in the corridors of Congress. When we do that history will truly be made and health care will finally become a human right in the United States.”
Read the Entire Article by Helen Redmond @:
http://www.counterpunch.org/redmond12232009.html
How do all you Jane Hamsher bashers feel know that the real truth has been exposed by even your so beloved “progressives” in the House and that phony-ass “Socialist” Bernie Sanders?
And, you morons are upset that Jane wrote a letter with Grover Norquist after evey last Democrat has shown themselves to be useless and utter worthless public servants? If you criticize Jane, then you deserve all of what the Democrats have in store for you all and it’s not gonna be prertty or familar to you any of your sorry selves.
Audrey,
“I hope you learned your lessons with Obama,” was written in response to her latest actions against Emanuel and Jane’s opposition (and mine too) to this healthcare bill.
I admit that I am fairly new at FDL, but, that is a comment I would say to anyone. It was not mean to be an attack of any kind. I guess I could have easily said, to Jane, “How surprising, that these things happen with Obama?”
I have heard very little criticism of Obama by progressives until very recently. Even the criticism of Obama has been tempered and watered down with praise in the same breath. Paul Krugman criticizes Obama before supporting the healthcare bill.
There has been constant criticms of Obama at counterpunch.org. Glen Greenwald, WSWS, ISR, ZNet, Black Ageda Report, Chris Hedges, antiwar.com, Cindy Sheehan, Noam Chomsky, Slavoj Zizek, Paul Craig Roberts, Mark Danner, Dahr Jamail, Naomi Klein, Jeremy Scahill, etc.
You know what some of these people have said? That the same progressives
and liberals who welcomed their criticism of Bush shun them when they make the same criticisms of Obama. The so-called antiwar left has completely ostracized and now ignores Cindy Sheehan.
As Naomi Klein recently said, she does not write her columns with the Democratic Party in mind, nor, does she care too uch who is the winner in the American political system. Yet, she has criticized Obama and his Chicago connections and the awful healthcare system in the U.S.
On Rahm Emanuel and Freddie Mac from the Chicago Tribune:
“…Emanuel was named to the Freddie Mac board in February 2000 by Clinton, whom Emanuel had served as White House political director and vocal defender during the Whitewater and Monica Lewinsky scandals….The board met no more than six times a year. Unlike most fellow directors, Emanuel was not assigned to any of the board’s working committees, according to company proxy statements. Immediately upon joining the board, Emanuel and other new directors qualified for $380,000 in stock and options plus a $20,000 annual fee, records indicate….On Emanuel’s watch, the board was told by executives of a plan to use accounting tricks to mislead shareholders about outsize profits the government-chartered firm was then reaping from risky investments. The goal was to push earnings onto the books in future years, ensuring that Freddie Mac would appear profitable on paper for years to come and helping maximize annual bonuses for company brass….The accounting scandal wasn’t the only one that brewed during Emanuel’s tenure….During his brief time on the board, the company hatched a plan to enhance its political muscle. That scheme, also reviewed by the board, led to a record $3.8 million fine from the Federal Election Commission for illegally using corporate resources to host fundraisers for politicians. Emanuel was the beneficiary of one of those parties after he left the board and ran in 2002 for a seat in Congress from the North Side of Chicago….”
Strange bedfellows (I’m sure this is the 100th time this phrase has been used in comments) – but whatever it takes to get Holder to investigate Rahm, who is a real snake, imo, and we will be well rid of him.
There has been plenty of criticism of Obama by progressives for the past year. You’ve missed it, apparently.
What you missed is that she met his wife and the wife has some Israel issues. Grover has battled his own people on the right over those issues. Take Rahm’s view of Israel and his being a Democrat and add that to the mix and you get a very powerful guy willing to go to the mat to take Rahm down and Rahm has got to know this. He’s not afraid of the left, so he pressures the Congress to go right and appease the Liebermans and Nelsons. He will fear Grover and maybe will think twice before he goes around liberal bashing when Jane is allied with Grover. He’ll learn to fear Jane, too, when all is said and done, I have no doubt.
The other brilliang angle to this is that we’ve currently got a bunch of House progressives who pledged to vote against any bill without a strong public option who are looking like they’ll bail on us. Jane is letting them know she’s serious and they’d better think twice about crossing her. At the same time, she’s sending that message through an attack on Rahm, who has to be the number one person pressuring them to cave or he’ll make them pay. She’s not just saying cross me and you’ll pay, she’s saying don’t side with Rahm because he’s likely to be politically toxic in 2010.
It was ineffective and sporadic criticism at best….but it’s a stretch there to say “plenty.”
I have seen some of the progressive criticisms of Obama and have not been impressed. The criticism I have seen has been fully constrained, like Paul Krugman’s. In one breath there is criticism and in the next sentence back tracking and praise of Mr. Obama.
The real criticisms of Obama which I have been impressed are from the Radical, Marxist and Socialist persepctives which criticize the American Empire and its antecedents. I do not confuse criticisms of Obama by those so-called “liberals” (I am not a liberal but avowed Socialist/Radical) with, say, the radical perspective of Black Agenda Report or the Socialist views of Kate Randall or Lee Sustar.
I am sorry, but, totally disagree with your view that I missed anything this past year, regarding (gulp) that “progressive criticism” of Obama this past year. Obama certainly couldn’t care less anyway because he is trying to be like Ronald Reagan.
I know what I know and know what I see and the progressive community has been soft on Obama and still is for the most part.
Jane Hamsher, the best friend Democracy has and Rham Emanuel’s worst nightmare! There’s a new Sheriff in town boys and girls!
Emmanuel is an Obaminatio, who represents the interests of big corporations that have supported the Blue Dog cabal he helped found.
Are you trying to say that America’s interests are not separable from those of Israel?
What other dual nationals would have in close proximity to the decision making of American security policy?
American support for Israeli war crimes, Emmanuel served as an Israeli citizen in the IDF, is the main political justification which legitimates asymmetrical warfare against the US in the eyes of Islamic folks.
How can we protect Americans if an individual who has served in the IDF which commits war crimes against Moslems furthers Israel’s national interest over ours?
This is a legitimate question, has nothing to do with right wing conspiracy theory. I’m an antizionist Jew and am horrified that such war crimes are committed with my money in my name.
Grover Norquist? What an embarrassment.
Elections are not about purity in ideology, at least not so far, although once the teabaggers started this (with that amazingly doofus guy in upstate NY–the ‘scozzofava’ guy) it was only a matter of time before ‘real’ leftists demanded the same of their candidates.
Won’t end up being very pretty.
This is repellent. Rahm’s membership on a board ten years ago is reason he cannot advise the President. Riiiight. And it’s so bad he must resign. What. Ever. This is done, transparently, to “get” Rahm, and this is apparently the best you can do. There will be no investigation of this, no substantial publicity surrounding it, just the further turning of a splinter of the middle-far left into irrelevance.
This demonizing of Emanuel is as stupid as the assertion on MSNBC that Waxman-Markey is the Coal Industry Protection Plan. Are the Kyoto Protocols insufficiently pure for FDL? Maybe you and Norquist should go after Al Gore. Oh wait, you both did, with Bush and Nader. That turned out well. The logical progressive play is to push next for a public option, and to support progressive primary candidates, not burn down the house in a widdle tantwum. And this kind of stuff is wet matches that will burn nothing, and deservedly not.
The comment about working with Sarah Palin next is an excellent one, as is the point that there are those with much more close connections to financial orgs and institutions during the time that led to the crash for which you’re not seeking redress with your pal Grover (2001 Fannie is not the problem here, but you know that). While there is no cure for Obama Derangement Syndrome, I’ll think of you in November 2012 when he’s re-elected easily, because it’s about the economy. This brand of gotcha politics gets you nothing. Stimulus, Waxman-Markey, Sotomayor, 30 million more insured. These are real things. Vendettas are not.