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Recently from Pakistan and a single mother, Asra–who grew up in Morgantown–first raises hackles when she drafts guidelines for female participation in mosque activities and then tries to enter through the mosque’s front door and pray in on the main floor, rather than in the upstairs area set aside for women. Eventually there is a petition circulated to expel her from the mosque.
Asra sees intolerance towards women as one step closer to intolerance–and eventually violence–towards non-Muslims, while many members of the Muslim community in Morgantown and elsewhere, moderates and conservatives alike, see her actions as a way to promote herself and her recently published book, and to change Islam itself.
Like many mosques across the United States, the ICM serves dozens of Muslims from dozens of cultures, some of whom are moderate, some of whom are conservative, and a few of whom border on what Asra claims is “extremism,” a term that upsets many of the ICM members. Within Asra’s work to provide equality for women at mosque in Morgantown is seen the difficulties and the benefits of Islam in America, as well as how many religions have and still do subjugated women–the Catholic Church today still does not allow women priests; in some sects of Judaism women and men are seated separately, while many fundamentalist Protestant sects have rigid rules of conduct for women.
At the foundation of The Mosque in Morgan is how Islam and America can adapt to each other. Both the nation and the religion are melting pots. Should Islam open itself to the ways of a country in which it takes roots, in this case America, allowing women the same rights as men? Are those rights granted by the Quran? Are they open to interpretation? Can and should religions change and adapt with time and the places in which they are practiced?
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Before we start, just a couple quick notes: Please refresh your browser ever minute or so to see new comments, questions and answers. To reply to specific comment, hit the reply button underneath it and then type away. Always after a comment or question het “send comment.”
Please stay on topic–in this case the movie The Mosque in Morgantown, Asra Nomani’s work, and Islam in America. If you want to jump in about health care or anything else not about please find a post elsewhere on FDL to do so. Thank you.
Please–and I can’t believe I still have to say this, but–no ad hominen remarks, no blanket statements about how messed up any religion of any sort is, etc. In other words please be respectful of our guests and of each other.
And always, please excuse my typos which tonight may be worse than ever since I just did a pile of dishes from a solstice party after making a four-foot tall Yule tree from leftover wrapping paper…
Okay, that being said (whew!) Welcome Brittany! And thanks for joining us. How did you learn about Asra Nomani and what was happening at the mosque in Morgantown?
About a year after 9/11, I attended Friday services in the mosque at 96th & Third in Manhattan. Gotta say, I felt like a nonperson, being led up to the balcony, where you couldn’t even see the main floor unless you stood. (Opaque glass under railing.)
Hi Lisa, Thanks for having me.
I was living in DC and a colleague of mine was talking about an old friend of hers who had just come back home to West Virginia and believed her mosque had been taken over by extremists. I was immediately interested in learning more about what was happening, so I headed to West Virginia.
I grew up a small-town church that was in conflict. What I remember most were the sermons: about the evils of American culture, the inferiority of women and about how nonbelievers—not just people of other religions, but also those of other Christian denominations—were going to hell. In our church the person who wanted to create change was a new preacher. It stirred up a huge controversy and he ended up quitting to save the church from splitting. But it split anyway.
So when I heard about what was happening in West Virginia it sounded familiar. The story I found there was fascinating and complicated and important. It said a lot about the ways we handle conflict and navigate the line between tradition and modernity in our religious communities. And it was obvious to me that we’re all more alike than we are different—in good ways, and not so good ways.
Is the mosque in question financed by the Saudis? I think the one I attended was.
You were right there for all of it–and Asra took the bull by the horns, she went for it directly. And it seems form what I know about Islam, she was really going against prevailing customs overall.
And as I point out, Islam is not the only religion which segregates women in services and has a tier structure for behavior–men vs women. It’s an overall issue is the Abrahamic faiths.
Hey. I was raised R.C. in the days when even non-baptised R.C. babies didn’t go to heaven if they died. The R.C.s have subsequently changed their infallible position about limbo, since they want to convert Africans, who don’t have docs or priests. So Islam has no stranglehold on religious extremism. It’s mainstream in the R.C.s.
No, from what I understand the mosque in Morgantown was largely financed through a fundraising drive within the local community. But at least at first it was well-supplied with free Qurans and other educational materials courtesy of the Saudis, as are many mosques in the United States.
demi, a frequent commenter at FDL, has a brother-in-law who is a college professor of religion, specializing in Islam, his own faith. demi gratiously gave me his email, and I asked him about the Quranic passages about beating wives, etc. He admitted that “they are a problem.” Apparently one without a solution as of yet.
That is absolutely right, Lisa. It is different from the other Abrahamic faiths, though, in that having different denominations is not really considered a possibility by the mainstream. So many communities try to reconcile varying practices under one room.
Rather, under one roof.
So the mosque is Sunni then? Do any Shi’ia attend?
The Saudi influence is always a step toward extremism. The U.S. could learn a lot about soft power from the Saudis.
Yes, the mosque was Sunni. There was also a Shiite community in Morgantown, but they had mostly arrived in the States earlier and were assimilated and secular. They didn’t have a mosque at all and mostly just got together for the annual holiday of Eid Al-Fitr at the end of Ramadan.
The Muslim empires were always tremendously diverse in every way other than religion. Only by the 19th C did diversity become a problem, when nationalism became the name of the game, and when Islam did not modernize as the West did, which meant that the Ottoman empire kept shrinking.
It seems that even the most progressive mosques, like the Islam Center of Southern California which Asra attended and you filmed, don’t integrate.
What prompted Asra to hope she could integrate ICM?
As a woman, I participated with my church and other religions guarding the local mosque right after 9/11. One surprising side affect of this as a former feminist and now “hoomanist” I was surprised when I found it a pleasure to be with women, worship and pray with women and just be in the exclusive company of women and God.
That being said, I heartily support the egalitarian co-existance of men and women in work, home, and the world at large.
I think extremism is the result of categorizing ANY human being as “less” no matter who it is, and that it is a control issue where debasers are threatened by the power those “other” people could possess.
What I want to know is, how to change their minds?
My 2 cents
Cat In Seattle
She believed it was the moral and just thing to do, so she tried to do it. She had been on hajj, the pilgrimage to Mecca, earlier that year and saw men and women praying next to each other there. She had stood side-by-side with her father and nephew in Mecca, so she didn’t understand why she couldn’t do it in Morgantown. It seemed like a no-brainer to her. Of course Muslims will tell you that different rules apply in Mecca due to the sheer numbers of pilgrims there. Enforcement would be impossible, and people try to not to get separated from their family members in the crowd.
What has been the response to the film from other Muslims outside of the Morgantown mosque?
Honestly Cat, I’ve thought a lot about this. I don’t think changing minds is possible with true extremists. A better option is to marginalize them within their own communities.
Regarding the response to the film, Muslims in Morgantown told me they thought the film was fair and largely accurate. Some expressed fears that viewers might give Asra what they believe is undeserved credit for the changes in the mosque. Others were a little uncomfortable with how the former mosque president, Hany Ammar, was portrayed. I actually think some wished they had given me even more access so viewers could have seen a bit more of what happened “behind the scenes.”
Lots of Muslims outside Morgantown have reacted positively to the film. Others seem to hate it. Representatives of the Islamic Society of North America were upset that I didn’t consult with them while making the film, which I didn’t believe was necessary. They don’t like the fact that the film gives Asra Nomani a platform and say it is not representative of Muslim communities around the country. But of course I never intended it to be that. It is the story of one woman and one mosque that hopefully gives insight to larger dynamics in American Islam, but it does not pretend to give a comprehensive view of the subject. That’s why we created the film’s companion Web site, which seeks to provide background and context and bring in additional perspectives on the issues raised in the film.
There is another issue here as well, which is the idea of airing dirty laundry. Most communities—religious and otherwise—have a problem with this. The impetus is even greater among Muslims given how the community has been (often unfairly) scrutinized after 9/11. That’s one of the reasons the Morgantown Muslim community had such a problem with Asra’s methods of activism. And they much prefer films that overlook their internal conflicts. But I think it is important for civil discourse to be honest about these things. Silence breeds distrust, which is exactly what we don’t need now.
Hello. What signs of “extremism” in the mosque was Asra worried about, other than the separation of men and women? Separating men and women in a mosque is, unfortunately, considered standard practice at many, many US mosques. It is not a predictor of “extremism” in terms of anti-Americanism or violence.
if it’s good enough for Mecca…
When women’s voices are heard, often they bring a more peaceful and nurturing mode of being, whihc runs counter often to militaristic aspects of faith.
We see extreme examples of this feminine principle in Lysistrata by Aristophanes and the doc Pray the Devil out of Hell
Asra was really concerned about the sermons she was hearing at the mosque: that the “West is on a dark path,” that Muslims should “hate those who hate” the prophet Mohammed, and that an unchaste woman is worthless. She felt that intolerance toward women was just a marker of a deeper intolerance, and a first step on what could be a slippery slope to violence.
Of course, as I mentioned earlier in this discussion I heard similar sermons at my childhood church. The question is if the political dimensions of Islam today make these kind of statements of greater concern.
salaam everyone. The way I speak to Muslims about this issue (I am a white-americna convert of 16 years) is that it’s not just that it’s ok in Mecca. It was the way the Prophet Muhammad (saws) had his congregation pray, men in front, women in back and the women were allowed to address him also in public amongst a mixed men and women group. Muslims all agree that the Prophet’s teachings include his day to day life, so my question to them is did the Prophet make a mistake by allowing women and men to pray together? Of course not. It is his example that we are to follow and this is a basic tenent in Islam. There is nothing that says men and women can not pray together and it is a “puritanistic” view that holds these mis-truths.
As a Muslim, I would have to agree with the one point regarding giving Asra Nomani a platform. She is so far off the beaten path in terms of representing the “average Muslim woman” in America that it is upsetting to see her have so much air time in front of people who know virtually nothing about the Muslim community, i.e., non-Muslim Americans.
I imagine many Muslims feel as I do that she is portrayed as a trailblazer rather than a woman is not well versed in the faith teachings and not at an adherent to the faith, in any mainstream sense, that is.
Sunni’s are traditionally conservative and staid in their views… It’s no surprise that the Shi’ite would assimilate more readily…!
A modern christian comparison would between say, the Puritans and Catholicism…!
Pray the Devil Back to Hell is one of my favorite documentaries. I recommend it to all readers of this discussion! And you’re right, Lisa, women do bring a needed perspective to any situation of conflict.
However, I think a lot of people in Morgantown would argue that Asra was not fostering a more peaceful or nurturing atmosphere in the mosque. Her methods are a big part of the controversy surrounding her activism.
It struck me Asra was very concerned about her faith and how it would be perceived that Islam could be harmed by extremism, that she was acting out of love for the religion, and that too she realized that there are times when it’s necessary ot adapt and change, to find the ways to stay true to Islam but work within the culture where Islam is.
to Muslim mom- I think you would be surprised at how many Muslims agree with Asra. Many of us no longer attend the masajid because of the extremism there. I don’t believe she is “so far off the path…of representing the average Muslim woman”. There are scores of Muslims that identify with “progressive” values while at the same time keeping to their faith.
maa asalaama
I agree that Sunni’s are very much behind. Their (our) jurisprudence goes back to the traditions of the “4 schools of fiqh”,even while the Qur’an tells us to continue our updating of fiqh (laws). Shia stay abreast and have changed with the times, fairly successfully in my opinion.
Agree. Work on the people who may be malliable. Forget the rest.
Nomani wanted men and women to pray side by side in a mixed prayer (as in Makkah) not in the way you are describing which is the sunnah (example set by the Prophet Muhammad).
If you pay attention to the film, you’ll see her staging little “sit ins” in the S.Calif. mosque, where they told her she could pray in the main musallah (prayer hall) but that was not what she wanted, she wanted to make a public show of praying right smack next to an unrelated man. It appeared to me to be a huge publicity stunt.
BTW women pray next to their husbands in their home if it is just the two of them.
Regarding giving Asra Nomani a platform, I’ve found that Muslims seem to spend a lot of time imagining what non-Muslims are thinking or taking away from the film. In fact, I think the reaction has been very different from what many have imagined.
Non-Muslim viewers have often approached or written me with some surprise, telling me “That’s exactly what happened in my church!” or “I’ve seen that before in my synagogue!” More than a few have said they’d react the same way to an Asra Nomani within their own faith! You don’t really get the Muslim reaction to her until you’ve seen her in action.
And this is my point: interfaith dialogue so often focuses on the positive similarities between faiths, overlooking the less agreeable attributes we also share—-like rigidity, intolerance and the urge to power. In the post-9/11 environment Muslims are understandably more hesitant discuss internal conflicts, but I believe this has simply bred more skepticism among outsiders. Acknowledging all the things we share—positive and negative—-can help build trust and open the door to civil discourse between our faith communities. With all the recent concern and discussion about “homegrown terrorism” I think we need this now more than ever.
I think in many ways Asra was affected by her colleague Daniel Pearl’s death–for those of you who havent seen the film, Pearl left form her house to go on the trip car ride which was ot be his last.
I felt she was trying to save Islam from extremism..though she is viewed by some as being an extremist herself–
And while her methods might not be the ones everyone would use, she was coming form a place of love–her father co-founded that mosque
Women in power are just like men in power; not nurturing at all. Don’t be fooled by stereotypes.
Shia Iran is not “conservative?” Really.
Are you happy with the way women are regarded in Islam? With the passages in the Quran that husbands can beat their wives? That women are worth 2/3 of a man in court testimony & inheritance?
There are many, many mosques that are not extreme in terms of saying things like the West is on a dark path, or you should hate anyone who hates the Prophet. I admit though I have only been to Shi’ite meetings, so I can’t speak to what goes on in any Sunni mosques.
That being said, many women practice in their homes. I heard Sadat’s widow on NPR say that, in Egypt & in the US, she prays at home, not at mosque.
Lisa, I agree with you that Asra was acting out of love for her faith. I’m sure you all know that many critics have accused her of acting out of a desire for publicity. I wasn’t sure myself at first, and I went about my work with a very skeptical eye. She is definitely a complex person, but after spending A LOT of time with Asra over the years I’ve come to believe that she is completely sincere about what she’s doing. I have a different personality than she does, and a different skill set, so I definitely would have gone about it differently. But she did what she did in the only way she knew how.
What I do wish is that she could have separated the people from the ideology rather than letting things get so personal at times. And I’m not sure how helpful it was to label people as extremists.
In the end, though, I truly do think that social change requires all types, including the revolutionaries like Asra.
I think that there is a justifiable reason for Muslims to spend “a lot of time imagining what non-Muslims are thinking or taking away from the film.”
We have been unfairly portrayed in the media as the warmongering, hateful terrorists, prone to crazy ideologies, and so to watch this film, you see Ms. Nomani single-handedly trying to put down the next Osama Bin Laden in Morgantown. It’s just so not like that.
I do appreciate the companion website, there are some good commentaries there, however, the majority of viewers will not see that. They will only see Nomani capitalize on every stereotype available.
*heh* Chalk that up to the ‘Religious Institution’… Once again, I’ll utilize the Catholic faith… The Vatican is traditionally more conservative than the parishes are…!
Yes, but don’t you think non-Muslim viewers are intelligent enough to see a stereotype as just that? There are many different types of Muslims portrayed in the film who refute the stereotypes themselves. There is no reason filmmakers need to be paternalistic toward audiences.
I, for one, do not think of Islam in any particular way. I’ve done a lot of reading about it, but am far from being educated yet. However, as I inidcated in 38, I find the passages in the Quran about women to be disturbing, especially, as I understand it, the Quran is immutable received wisdom. (Correct me if I’m wrong.)
Ever notice that religions, governments etc can always change and be more violent, repressive etc no problem but for some reason liberal change more equal treatment of everyone is always opposed even if it does not cost money.
Its almost like oppression of any sort is power that no group in charge ever wants to give up even if the act itself costs the people in charge no actual loss of power defending the Symbol of Power, Oppression becomes so important that many groups will risk destroying themselves or rendering themselves useless just to keep the symbol of power.
This passage that men may “beat their wives” is always brought up and it is a fair point, I would like to say that the Arabic word used in the passage does not mean “beat” as in English, a harsh beating. It means more like “tap gently”. It is meant to be a reprimand, not a beating as in the Biblical equivilant, “spare the rod and spoil the child”.
Isn’t that the same thing said of the Bible…? ;-)
I do think that non-Muslim viewers would probably be able to recognize stereotypes. Sadly, it’s the subset of closed-minded Americans who see all Muslims as backwards & prone to terrorism who would not go to see a film like this.
There are disturbing passages in the Bible as well.
Here’s a good one from 1 Timothy 2:11-15:
“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.”
From what I understand also the Quran is considered to be immutable received wisdom. However, I think one can believe that the Quran is the literal word of God without believing he intended it to be taken literally. Surely cultural and historical context can count for something.
Islam does not say that it is permissible for a man to beat his wife. This is an incorrect and misogynist translation and ideology. The inheritance laws etc., are taken out of context and as a feminist, they actually made sense when I studied the reasons behind the rule. However, this is not the forum for an Islamic jurisprudence lecture!
One could do a film on the Promisekeepers or other patriarchal groups and lump them together with all practicing Christians and everyone would call foul!
muslim mom- I haven’t seen the movie, only the trailers. I have read a bit of Nomani’s writings and she visited Seattle when I lived there and challenged the largest Masjid to let her pray in the bottom with the men. At that time she only wanted to stand next to her father, not all the men so not sure about the other. It is horrible that they make the women climb 3 sets of stairs there, very difficult for many…She received death threats for that action.
I agree that women should be in the same room as the men, a real part of the jummah (group), not stuck away…I have been to too many masajid where we were in a basement or another building entirely! Talk about not feeling wanted or a part of the group!
Mahalo(thank you), M’dear…! I shoulda added that in…! ;-)
The Quranic scholar Laleh Bakhtiar makes the argument that the Arabic word idrib means more something equivalent to “separate” or “to go away” rather than “to beat.” She contributed an original essay on this subject to themosqueinmorgantown.com here:
http://www.themosqueinmorgantown.com/forum/2009/05/24/bakhtiar/
These are fundamental questions about religion of course. And since the fundamental nature of religion can never be resolved, they can never be answered.
Fundamentally, as it were.
It is absurd to suggest that the state or the community should intervene in each church and tell them what is okay and not okay to do. But given the wide spectrum of behaviors that can unfold within each denomination where is the line to be drawn?
But more crucially, perhaps, how is it to be drawn? Who gets to decide this?
The question of extremism has to be resolved by each congregation—unless laws are broken.
Moderation for some religionists is analogous to an ecumenical approach to religion. Which they will fiercely oppose.
As an atheist myself, I believe these sort of religious confrontations will dissolve as religion itself dissolves. But that will not happen anytime soon. Why? Because religion provides the sort of emotional and psychological balms nothing else can.
I would advise that you resign yourself to “resolving” these futile quandaries on a case by case basis. You won’t ever make them go away.
Rule of thumb used to mean you could hit your wife with a stick as long as it was not thicker than your thumb.
All religions, governments etc have a ways to go before they treat women equal.
Pakistan has had a female as their Top Leader us we can’t even get a female as VP yet despite our attempts to promote ourselves as enlightened on women’s rights.
Rights are nice but the Power to back up those rights is better.
Oh yes, I’ve read that too. Doesn’t solve the problem, unless women are allowed to “beat” their husbands.
The Quran’ic passages you are reading in English are translations, not the word of God. That is why a “real” Qur’an is in Arabic only and is considered holy. Almost all translations are done by men, they have a distinctly patriarchal bent and Amina Wadud wrote a good look at the Qur’an from a feminist reading and she is also an Arabic scholar…http://www.amazon.com/Quran-Woman-Rereading-Sacred-Perspective/dp/0195128362
I don’t think American women could inherit in their own name until this century.
The converse of that is applicable to… The ‘Church’ should refrain as well..! ;-)
Our dinner is burning, thanks for the discussion! I have a poem that just got nominated for a Pushcart Prize, “Islam for Americans” for another American Muslim perspective:
http://qarrtsiluni.com/tag/khadija-anderson/
Regarding these larger questions about the future of Islam in America, I have to say I personally am optimistic.
That’s largely because this country is indeed a melting pot. This is first time in the religion’s history where so many strands of culture and practice have come together one place. Despite claims to the contrary, Islam is anything but monolithic. And some very convincing arguments are being made for an inherent flexibility in Islam, a kind of dynamism that makes it quite compatible with life in America.
The film’s companion Web site features several original essays on this subject. For example, the Harvard professor Ali Asani writes beautifully about the likelihood of the emergence of a distinctly American form of Islam. And the writer Sumbul Ali-Karamali raises a call to reclaim a heritage of diversity within the religion.
So yes, I look forward to seeing how Islam continues to develop her in America. Out of the current chaos a truly modern and dynamic expression of Islam may emerge. But there will be growing pains, which is part of what we’re seeing in THE MOSQUE IN MORGANTOWN.
One would hope viewers could see through it, however, as I watched through my lens of a former non-Muslim, I cringed quite a few times, knowing that some misperceptions would be perpetuated through her actions. I do appreciate that you did leave some of her more obvious motivations in the light of day, i.e., the book, the mag cover shoot, etc. But I was already very familiar with Nomani and felt I could see through some of her motivation, but also knew many non-Muslims would not know and consider her a real reformer.
Respectfully, the majority of Muslims in America do not take Nomani seriously. We value scholarship and sophistication that she clearly lacks.
I was fascinated by the friendship that developed between Asra and Christine–the Americam convert to Islam…at first it C was on the opposite side of the fence from Asra–she was moderste and accepting of the mosque’s stane. But gradually she seems to grok Asra’s points..
How di C’s husband react to her getting involved and becoming more feminist in her approach of Islam..and what is she up to now?
Yes the new Pope has also said his is the only one true way to heaven.
That is a good point. Translations of the Koran are like translations of anything, subject to the views of the translator. That is why Sunnis wouldn’t use Shi’ite translations, and vice versa. And in the US, if you go to say a bookstore, you will see just a couple translations. I have never seen a Shi’ite translation at a US bookstore. And I have not seen a woman’s translation anywhere. I’d love to see that. That would be very interesting.
For you and CTut,
Yes, of course there are disturbing passages in the OT. I keep hyping my idea of a great master’s thesis in religion. Tick every paragraph in the OT, NT and the Quaran wrt violence, then count them up as a % of the total. Gets away from cherry picking paragraphs that prove your point.
However, there is a VERY long history of OT exegisis, analysis of the passages wrt to who wrote them, when they were written, what was the context, etc. Shit, I had to draw with colored pencils in the margin of my OT who the authors were: E, Y, R, etc., as Bible was a required subject sophomore year in my college, some 46 years ago.
According to what I have learned from demi’s BIL, the similar application of reasoned analysis to the Quran is of much more recent vintage and not yet mainstream.
Thank you for your eloquent response!
Thanks for the link. I’ve added the book to my shopping cart. I still maintain that, unless there is a similar passage about a woman being able to “beat” (or whatever translation of that word you prefer) her husband for similar transgressions, there is great inequality.
Christine’s husband Mohamad was very supportive, although he himself tried to keep out of mosque politics.
She came around to Asra’s point of view after she tried working from inside the community and getting nowhere. She says she eventually came to understand what Asra felt she didn’t have any choice but to be confrontational.
Christine moved to Michigan after filming was complete, and she says it is okay to tell people that she no longer considers herself a Muslim.
The experience in Morgantown was too traumatic for her.
I think before you can comment fairly, you should see the film entirely.
Nomani’s first priority is to sell books, in my opinion.
Google her name, you’ll find some disturbing titles, certainly not ones attributed to a practicing Muslim.
But now they can. So let’s move on. Let’s not fight battles that were won a century ago.
Again, check out Laleh Baktiar’s translation, The Sublime Quran. It is the closest thing to a feminist reading I’ve seen.
That is a tragedy…! 8-(
And the divorce that happened, Hany Ammar and his wife–was that from stress brough about my he upheavals at the mosque, or just normal stuf? (okay not to answer)
Well, you brought up the subject. So what is the correct translation. Why do the testimony & inheritance laws make sense to a feminist?
I’m sure the stress might have played a role in that divorce. But it was more “normal stuff” — I’ll bow to the family’s privacy on this one.
And do mainstream Muslims buy into that translation?
Speaking of seeing the film in full form–when and where is it screening next–and you can order the DVD through the link on our page
If one studies a woman’s role and rights in Islam, they will find Islamic law treats women far more equitable than any other faith’s doctrine, and it has been in practice for more than 1400 years. Including rights to own property, right to divorce without consent of the husband, rights to scholarship, etc. long before the suffragette movement or women’s movement.
Prophet Muhammad’s most beloved wife, Khadijah was a successful merchant and was his employer until she asked him for marriage. I don’t think that sounds too permissive. and I don’t think she was oppressed either.
That’s a good question. Bakhtiar’s scholarship is respected, but she has her critics. She is a woman, of Sufi background and half Iranian/half American descent, not a native Arabic speaker, didn’t train in traditional Islamic schools — all those count against her.
That was accurate in its time, but the world has moved on and Islam hasn’t.
‘nuf said.
An orthodox Jewish friend of mine was telling me recently about a revolt at a local orthodox synagogue, where a bunch of senior female congregation members, aged 65 to 100 went into services and sat on the men’s side (some orthodox traditions require men and women to sit in different parts of the hall)…. and succeeded in ending the practice of segregation there.
The film aired nationally on PBS back in June, but it continues to screen at college campuses around the country. A big screening is coming up in April at Duke University in conjunction with the Kenan Institute for Ethics. We’re still looking for more outreach partners, so anyone who is interested in doing a screening should be in touch.
The film is also available to rent through Netflix and Blockbuster.
Khadijah bint Khuwaylid, Muhammad’s first and sole wife, while she was alive, was a merchant and made a name of herself in her own right… Muhammad deferred to her often and she was instrumental in collecting his writings for the Q’uran…!
I would think those Orthodox Jewish women would have just been asked to go down the street to the reform synagogue in town. Unfortunately progressive-minded Muslim women don’t have that option.
Maybe you should post a Diary on this subject.
You beat me to the punch…! ;-)
oN ehting I have noticed in terms of Islam in other wetern countries is a desire by some Muslims to have sharia supercede the existing laws of the land, UK for example. That can be problematic…
Muslims as people may have not moved on in many parts of the world from your perspective, however the doctrine has not changed and is quite relevant to the world today. You are judging a faith by media’s portrayal of it. If you want to really learn about it, there are myriad of books you can read, just be sure to read books written by Muslim scholars with the addition of Karen Armstrong, she has written some very fair histories of Islam and it may make more sense to the non-Muslim reader.
Yes, that is the most dangerous role that religion can play. Those who embrace all human behavior as subservient to God politicize their faith. There is no Caesar. There is no democracy. There is no rule of law. There is only Scriptue, sharia and/or the 10 commandments.
Next comes the inevitable hunting down of infidels. People like me, especially. Why? Because I am very good at deconstructing religion.
Agreed. American mosques could use a lot more women like muslimmom.
It’s West Virginia University, NOT the University of West Virginia.
Brittany–what is next for you, for The Mosque in Mogantown (the movie) and Asra.
For updates on the characters in the movie, http://www.themosqueinmorgantown.com/film/characters/bios/
sorry sam,–wil fix…
Have you ever heard the saying a woman is one divorce away from poverty many women are lucky to get some child support late from their ex’s.
I believe that under Muslim rules men are responsible and get custody of the kids. Since men do earn more this helps lessen the poverty problem and no sane man who has left child raising to his wife wants to handle raising babies, or teenagers this limits divorce.
There is good and bad in both cultures. I must state that yes I think women should sit with men in church to my mind not sitting together is part of the bad.
I don’t know what a DIary is but…
Believe me, there are plenty more American Muslim women like me around! I’ve got hundreds of mentors, we just don’t end up in documentaries or on the Times bestseller lists. Change is happening, it is quiet, though.
I wish you the very best of luck in helping to bring this about. I am not myself an atheist hell bent on forging my own crusade against God. That is futile.
On things “spiritual” I tend to subscribe to the thinking of Albert Einstein.
“The most beautiful emotion we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead, a snuffed-out candle. To sense that behind anything that can be experienced there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us only indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religious man.”
On the other hand, I truly love to argue with those who are denominationally minded in their religious bent. Having once been a philosophy major in college, I’m just a born polemist when it comes to debating The Big Questions.
muslimon, we have a section on Firedoglake.com called The Seminal (link at top of page) where you cna write up what ever’s on your mind, an essay of sorts, and hit publish…bingo!
Asra Nomani is teaching at Georgetown University, where she directed The Pearl Project. She taught investigative journalism while working with students to uncover the truth about Danny Pearl’s death. Their findings will be published in book form early next year.
I am looking forward to continue showing The Mosque in Morgantown on college campuses and elsewhere around the country for the next couple of years.
Meanwhile, I’m working on a new project about human trafficking in Nepal, called Border Girls. It is a narrative documentary following two young women who run a border surveillance station to help save other women from traffickers. You can see the trailer on my Web site at http://www.v1productions.com.
Brittany, thank you for being here, and firepups, thanks as always for a great discussion..and welcome to the new folks who joined us and added so much! thank you all
Actually, I think that is not true, especially in regard to young children. It is the father’s responsibility to support the wife and children in a case of divorce. He is obligated to make sure she can care for the children in the same manner as when they were married.
YOu may be confusing some shi’a laws of divorce, which are different, but remember shi’a are in a minority. the vast majority of Muslims are considered Sunni and the family laws are very careful to protect the well-being of the children and women too.
I also think we are highjacking Ms. Huckabee’s forum!
Thanks for having me, and thanks for all the great comments and questions!
Visit here… And type away…! ;-)
BTW, muslimmom, give me a shout on Facebook. I’d love to talk more.
Thanks again everyone.
Pleas keep up updated on that, we’d love ot have you back to discuss it!
Your new project sounds very interesting, too. Good luck and thank you for tonight.
:) we know each other through sarah hassan…
Have read Armstrong, who never met a religion she didn’t love. Other books? Have read 2 of Rashid Khaldi’s. Is he on you “approved” list?
Mahalo, Brittany…! For all you’ve done…! *g*
Thanks for the correction.
Oh sure, Muslim men look after their kids much more so than Xtian men. Dream on.
I’m a Baha’i… I’m similarly predisposed…! ;-)
Pax vobiscum. You certainly have a cross to bear. I’ve met only one other Bahai in my life.
You certainly have a cross to bear.
That’s blasphemy, M’dear…! ;-)
Sorry for the inappropriate metaphore.
samwilkinson — INDEED THANKYOU: West Virginia University not University of West Virginia (no such animal)
yeah. my friend didn’t know what the aftermath was, but I thought it was a poignant effort. I suspect that some accommodation was reached, but I don’t know what.
Not necessarily. Jesus was hardly the only person to be crucified, in Palestine, Rome or anywhere. All those other rabblerousers bore crosses of their won. Typical Christocentrism…
Baha’is don’t recognize crosses, we’re not ‘Christian’ to start off…! Would you like to retract it…? ;-)
I hate to keep posting this, but it is West Virginia University, not the University of West Virginia. (If you inexplicably don’t believe me, visit the website at http://www.wvu.edu)