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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Late Night: Stay-at-Home LGBTs in 2010</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/20/sunday-late-night-stay-at-home-lgbts-in-2010/</link>
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		<title>By: timr</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/20/sunday-late-night-stay-at-home-lgbts-in-2010/#comment-2039774</link>
		<dc:creator>timr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=57138#comment-2039774</guid>
		<description>HEAR, HEAR!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HEAR, HEAR!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: timr</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/20/sunday-late-night-stay-at-home-lgbts-in-2010/#comment-2039771</link>
		<dc:creator>timr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=57138#comment-2039771</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Right. You show those dems by not voting. That will show them. Seems to me I have heard that refrain before. Lots of dems didn&#039;t vote in order to &quot;punish&quot; those lousey dems. Remember how that worked out? Do you? We wound up with about 12 years of a rethug congress and 8 years of bush. Which  almost destroyed the country, no? So who was punished? Really? So youall being poed at Obama because your &quot;cause&quot; was not the first thing that he did will mean that you sit out the 2010 and 2012 elections. Boy that will really punish Obama and the dems won&#039;t it? I believe that this is called cutting off your nose to spite your face. 
  
 So you would rather that the rethugs take over once more so that you can &quot;punish&quot; the dems. Smooth, very smooth. Sure, lets get the homophobic rethugs back in power. Then they can push their agenda, the defense of marriage act. The national goal a law that prevents gay marriage. Sure bob, that will really show those dems a thing or 3. Well, if thats what floats your boat, to have the LGBT movement go back about 50 years, then Have at it. 
 But I will say this, if you stay home in 2010 and the repigs win, then I do not want to hear any wailing and gnashing of teeth. You will have made your bed, so you must sleep in it. A shake of my head and a big sigh of disbelief. How short are your memories? Youall suffer from ADD? You really want the rethug nation to win? They already seem to think that they will win the indies-like me-and that, along with their hard core wing nuts and the fact that so very many dems will &quot;stay home&quot; to &quot;punish&quot; Obama. Well, myself, I think that you are all a bunch of crybaby idiots. Not very smart either. Losers. So, go cry in your soup, don&#039;t vote, let the rethugs win, watch your entire agenda go right down the toilet. I hope you will be satisfied. That you &quot;punished&quot; the only ones on your side and let the reactionaries win. Welcome back to 1950s america, I hope your happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Right. You show those dems by not voting. That will show them. Seems to me I have heard that refrain before. Lots of dems didn&#8217;t vote in order to &#8220;punish&#8221; those lousey dems. Remember how that worked out? Do you? We wound up with about 12 years of a rethug congress and 8 years of bush. Which  almost destroyed the country, no? So who was punished? Really? So youall being poed at Obama because your &#8220;cause&#8221; was not the first thing that he did will mean that you sit out the 2010 and 2012 elections. Boy that will really punish Obama and the dems won&#8217;t it? I believe that this is called cutting off your nose to spite your face. </p>
<p> So you would rather that the rethugs take over once more so that you can &#8220;punish&#8221; the dems. Smooth, very smooth. Sure, lets get the homophobic rethugs back in power. Then they can push their agenda, the defense of marriage act. The national goal a law that prevents gay marriage. Sure bob, that will really show those dems a thing or 3. Well, if thats what floats your boat, to have the LGBT movement go back about 50 years, then Have at it.<br />
 But I will say this, if you stay home in 2010 and the repigs win, then I do not want to hear any wailing and gnashing of teeth. You will have made your bed, so you must sleep in it. A shake of my head and a big sigh of disbelief. How short are your memories? Youall suffer from ADD? You really want the rethug nation to win? They already seem to think that they will win the indies-like me-and that, along with their hard core wing nuts and the fact that so very many dems will &#8220;stay home&#8221; to &#8220;punish&#8221; Obama. Well, myself, I think that you are all a bunch of crybaby idiots. Not very smart either. Losers. So, go cry in your soup, don&#8217;t vote, let the rethugs win, watch your entire agenda go right down the toilet. I hope you will be satisfied. That you &#8220;punished&#8221; the only ones on your side and let the reactionaries win. Welcome back to 1950s america, I hope your happy.</p>
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		<title>By: helenofpeel</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/20/sunday-late-night-stay-at-home-lgbts-in-2010/#comment-2039583</link>
		<dc:creator>helenofpeel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=57138#comment-2039583</guid>
		<description>If Obama is more than willing to kick straight Progressives to the curb in order to avoid &quot;tension&quot; and having to take a stand, where do you think the rest of us (minorities, LGBT, and so on) rate?

I&#039;m home in 2010.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Obama is more than willing to kick straight Progressives to the curb in order to avoid &#8220;tension&#8221; and having to take a stand, where do you think the rest of us (minorities, LGBT, and so on) rate?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m home in 2010.</p>
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		<title>By: marcos</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/20/sunday-late-night-stay-at-home-lgbts-in-2010/#comment-2039582</link>
		<dc:creator>marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 17:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=57138#comment-2039582</guid>
		<description>Pelosi would win in CD8 even if every LGBT stayed home.  We&#039;ve tried to run candidates against her and if we get 10% we&#039;re lucky.  She has the town wired and she doesn&#039;t even take constituent comments at her offices--off to voice mail.

To my mind, extracting Wall Street from government is more important to me than same sex marriage.  It is even more important to me than housing and job protections for LGBT.  Extracting Wall Street from government is probably more important to principled conservatives than abortion or same sex marriage are.

Unless there is a core of progressive Democrats who will stand up inside the Democrat Party and defend the right of an independent progressive party to exist, we will see what happened post-Nader, around 2003 when it became clear that Bush had gone off the deep end, and the Democrat Party launched full bore attacks on the Green Party.

It really does not matter if Palin becomes president, it really does not really matter whether the GOP or Dems control Congress.  The difference between the two is insignificant compared to their common ground.  To allow yourselves to be so deceived is problematic, to project your political deceptions onto others is untenable.

Gotta wonder if the HRC put the brakes on progress so that they can have the next gala dinner?  I remember a sign from the disastrous 2000 march on washington put together by the HRC that read &quot;elect fair minded leaders.&quot;  With a political approach like that, it is a wonder that we&#039;re not already first class citizens.

The Democrat/HRC nexus needs to be blown up, politically, not bomb like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pelosi would win in CD8 even if every LGBT stayed home.  We&#8217;ve tried to run candidates against her and if we get 10% we&#8217;re lucky.  She has the town wired and she doesn&#8217;t even take constituent comments at her offices&#8211;off to voice mail.</p>
<p>To my mind, extracting Wall Street from government is more important to me than same sex marriage.  It is even more important to me than housing and job protections for LGBT.  Extracting Wall Street from government is probably more important to principled conservatives than abortion or same sex marriage are.</p>
<p>Unless there is a core of progressive Democrats who will stand up inside the Democrat Party and defend the right of an independent progressive party to exist, we will see what happened post-Nader, around 2003 when it became clear that Bush had gone off the deep end, and the Democrat Party launched full bore attacks on the Green Party.</p>
<p>It really does not matter if Palin becomes president, it really does not really matter whether the GOP or Dems control Congress.  The difference between the two is insignificant compared to their common ground.  To allow yourselves to be so deceived is problematic, to project your political deceptions onto others is untenable.</p>
<p>Gotta wonder if the HRC put the brakes on progress so that they can have the next gala dinner?  I remember a sign from the disastrous 2000 march on washington put together by the HRC that read &#8220;elect fair minded leaders.&#8221;  With a political approach like that, it is a wonder that we&#8217;re not already first class citizens.</p>
<p>The Democrat/HRC nexus needs to be blown up, politically, not bomb like.</p>
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		<title>By: browngregbrown</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/20/sunday-late-night-stay-at-home-lgbts-in-2010/#comment-2039571</link>
		<dc:creator>browngregbrown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=57138#comment-2039571</guid>
		<description>Staying at home does nothing, NOTHING, for creating movement on important humanitarian issues that the LGBT and decent communities support. What it will do is maintain the illusion of a two party system and the reality of one party rule. It is absolutely essential that we create at least one 3rd party which represents progressive decency and support them. And, yes, extant Democratic officeholders who truly support and have supported our goals would be welcome in the party.  



In afterthought I can&#039;t help but wonder if the DINO&#039;s would then be left with a hollowed-out party and thus be motivated to openly join the Republican monsters they currently support, again,leaving us with a two-party system, albeit one with clearer and more honest demarcations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Staying at home does nothing, NOTHING, for creating movement on important humanitarian issues that the LGBT and decent communities support. What it will do is maintain the illusion of a two party system and the reality of one party rule. It is absolutely essential that we create at least one 3rd party which represents progressive decency and support them. And, yes, extant Democratic officeholders who truly support and have supported our goals would be welcome in the party.  </p>
<p>In afterthought I can&#8217;t help but wonder if the DINO&#8217;s would then be left with a hollowed-out party and thus be motivated to openly join the Republican monsters they currently support, again,leaving us with a two-party system, albeit one with clearer and more honest demarcations.</p>
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		<title>By: lesizmor</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/20/sunday-late-night-stay-at-home-lgbts-in-2010/#comment-2039570</link>
		<dc:creator>lesizmor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=57138#comment-2039570</guid>
		<description>&quot;Find better people.  Put &#039;em in Congress.&quot;

This is the most productive way to go.  Staying home or doing nothing but being &quot;steamed&quot; is counter-productive.

Working against negative forces may be tiring, but it is also energizing because there is something to be excited about, like prospective legislators, the people&#039;s representative responding to the voters&#039; ire.........one of the hallmarks of a representative democracy.

Staying home, not politicking, not voting.......these are *not* options.........</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Find better people.  Put &#8216;em in Congress.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the most productive way to go.  Staying home or doing nothing but being &#8220;steamed&#8221; is counter-productive.</p>
<p>Working against negative forces may be tiring, but it is also energizing because there is something to be excited about, like prospective legislators, the people&#8217;s representative responding to the voters&#8217; ire&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;one of the hallmarks of a representative democracy.</p>
<p>Staying home, not politicking, not voting&#8230;&#8230;.these are *not* options&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: tony77019</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/20/sunday-late-night-stay-at-home-lgbts-in-2010/#comment-2039568</link>
		<dc:creator>tony77019</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=57138#comment-2039568</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if it would have been better with Hillary but I do know I like her a hell of lot more. I felt ambivalent towards Obama in the campaign; now I feel the same loathing for him I had for W.  If we are to win this battle and represent the majority of Americans who are progressive, what to do? Do we need to sink into a right wing stink hole in 2010 to convince a primary challenger to run against Obama? There is no hope for Obama. None.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if it would have been better with Hillary but I do know I like her a hell of lot more. I felt ambivalent towards Obama in the campaign; now I feel the same loathing for him I had for W.  If we are to win this battle and represent the majority of Americans who are progressive, what to do? Do we need to sink into a right wing stink hole in 2010 to convince a primary challenger to run against Obama? There is no hope for Obama. None.</p>
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		<title>By: pluege</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/20/sunday-late-night-stay-at-home-lgbts-in-2010/#comment-2039508</link>
		<dc:creator>pluege</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 12:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=57138#comment-2039508</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Rahm Emanuel and Barack Obama draw the wrong lessons about ...&lt;/em&gt;

EVERYTHING!

2010 will certainly be a massacre for democrats. obama has done everything possible to decimate the foot soldiers that put him in office and gave democrats dominating control of Congress. Neither obama or the Democratic Congress have come close to delivering - just the opposite. Nobodies showing up in 2010 or 2012 to put them back in power. 

obama will lose in 2012 unless the republicans run one of their batshit crazy stooges for POTUS, and even then any obama victory will be the slimmest of margins. 

obama and emanuel have totally effed up the historic opportunity they had for progressive change in the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Rahm Emanuel and Barack Obama draw the wrong lessons about &#8230;</em></p>
<p>EVERYTHING!</p>
<p>2010 will certainly be a massacre for democrats. obama has done everything possible to decimate the foot soldiers that put him in office and gave democrats dominating control of Congress. Neither obama or the Democratic Congress have come close to delivering &#8211; just the opposite. Nobodies showing up in 2010 or 2012 to put them back in power. </p>
<p>obama will lose in 2012 unless the republicans run one of their batshit crazy stooges for POTUS, and even then any obama victory will be the slimmest of margins. </p>
<p>obama and emanuel have totally effed up the historic opportunity they had for progressive change in the country.</p>
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		<title>By: jjfhom</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/20/sunday-late-night-stay-at-home-lgbts-in-2010/#comment-2039376</link>
		<dc:creator>jjfhom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=57138#comment-2039376</guid>
		<description>Yes gip2009, we worked our asses off. We, you and I and thousands of others, raised money and caucused and struggled for Obama-Biden and Begich and many, many others. And we&#039;re fucking angry that this healthcare bill and other legislation we thought we were getting and deserved is not as we wanted.

I&#039;m angry too. But I also understand politics in America. Let&#039;s get what we can for now. The process in this country is that of two steps forward and one step back. I don&#039;t like it any more than you, but that is the reality of today. We can keep struggling for what we know is right, or we can give up. I choose to fight on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes gip2009, we worked our asses off. We, you and I and thousands of others, raised money and caucused and struggled for Obama-Biden and Begich and many, many others. And we&#8217;re fucking angry that this healthcare bill and other legislation we thought we were getting and deserved is not as we wanted.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m angry too. But I also understand politics in America. Let&#8217;s get what we can for now. The process in this country is that of two steps forward and one step back. I don&#8217;t like it any more than you, but that is the reality of today. We can keep struggling for what we know is right, or we can give up. I choose to fight on.</p>
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		<title>By: gjp2009</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/20/sunday-late-night-stay-at-home-lgbts-in-2010/#comment-2039354</link>
		<dc:creator>gjp2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 07:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=57138#comment-2039354</guid>
		<description>How&#039;s it working for you (us) now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How&#8217;s it working for you (us) now?</p>
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