Joe Klen is right, this is very serious. People are DYING and will continue to DIE. But I can think of no one that has “preened” more than the despicable other Joe in the Senate, you know the one that gets giddy over killing all things that benefit the less-fortunate.
Being scolded by Joe Klein hurts my feelings about as much as Bubba’s little red-faced rant yesterday to not let “the perfect become the enemy of the good”. Anyone who thinks this corporate welfare for insurance companies is “good” has found better mind-altering substances than I ever thought existed.

This is our moment of grace. Joke Line is outside. Pay him no mind.

It feels so much like 2002. The Dem Party is castigating liberals because we won’t support their immoral war. Klein is quite consistent.

In three years, John Kerry and this years version of John Edwards will be loudly proclaiming that they “made a mistake” in supporting this bill.

Deja vu all over again.

Kill the manadates ot kill the bill.

I’m proud to stand with Howard Dean (and Jane Harman) on this.

so it seems as if obama has become the george bush, he is perpetuatiing bush’s corporatism, bush’s constiutional evacuation and the bush economic policies

obama is now the enemy of the left

everyone thought I was crazy when I said he was a one term president buy we really have to realize the man is a republcian and we’ve been duped

Now there’s an original thought.

does everyone remember when the right tried to use “obama is the most liberal member in the senate”?

ya,,,they actually tried saying that

As my spouse says “bush in blackface”

And they’ll keep saying it now matter how much “the left” bitches about him. Same as it ever was.

this bill wasn’t because of joe lieberman it was because of obama, joe played bad cop and this was the exact bill obama wanted in the first place

Can’t we complain about the defense bill signed “in the middle of the night”?

Some things are way too funny.

In a column published at the conservative Human Events blog earlier this week, Norris suggested that if a government-run health care plan had existed in Bethlehem at the time of Jesus’ birth, the shame of Mary’s “out-of-wedlock” pregnancy would have pushed her into aborting her child. Norris wrote:

Lastly, as we near the eve of another Christmas, I wonder: What would have happened if Mother Mary had been covered by Obamacare? What if that young, poor and uninsured teenage woman had been provided the federal funds (via Obamacare) and facilities (via Planned Parenthood, etc.) to avoid the ridicule, ostracizing, persecution and possible stoning because of her out-of-wedlock pregnancy? Imagine all the great souls who could have been erased from history and the influence of mankind if their parents had been as progressive as Washington’s wise men and women!

Sure.. They were going to pass the “monies for murder” no matter what time of day or night. This country seems to never hesitate when it comes to feeding the mighty murder machine.

I’m sorry, Joe, I don’t do preening in the morning until after my shower.

Good morning everyone.

Good morning, pups. It’s Bobo, Cohen and Krugman today. In “The Hardest Call” Bobo has a question: Does the Senate health care bill put us on a path toward real reform, or does it head us down a valley in which reform will be less likely? Mr. Cohen, in “The Inertia Option,” says new sanctions for Iran would be a mistake. We should deprive the Islamic Republic of an American scapegoat by doing nothing. Prof. Krugman says “Pass the Bill,” and that the current health care bill falls a long way short of ideal, but it is better than anything that seemed possible just a few years ago.

Here they are.

The coffee, tea and hot chocolate are ready, and I’ve got banana pancakes today. We’re back to the steady drizzling rain this morning, and I have a collection of damp kittehs on the porch. I’m going out with a towel and some kitteh chow. Have a great day.

Oh, I can see that going viral in the wingnutosphere.

Krugman’s become a complete wimp and, maybe a shill.

Good morning Marion. Cold as bejazus here, cat paw shaking cold, 6 degrees.

I read an article in the latest edition of Mother Jones and thought of you immediately. It is “The Ring Bearer” by Mark Oppenheimer all about…. wait for it…. Ross Douhat.

Well worth a read.

“if Mother Mary had been covered by Obamacare”

Maybe she coulda had her baby Jesus in a real hospital instead of a manger with the animals

1 degree here …colder than a witches mammary

Yeah, I missed the part in the bill about no medical care for unwed mothers. Oh wait, wasn’t Mary married to Joseph? I may have that wrong, as it’s been a long time since I read the Bible.

Animals get better care in this country than do humans.

I don’t know how cold it is here, as my outdoor wireless thermometer isn’t working. I tried to replace the batteries this morning, but the screws are stuck. Major surgery may be required. Think it might be a balmy 15.

mine do

It’s Obama’s fault

Mortensen is going to be on Book-TV this weekend.

Good point. Oh Bummah! is really practiced at screwing people.

Um, thanks… I think… I’ll take a peek at it over the weekend when I’m feeling stronger!

I’m still gonna give the man my support ,though these days I’m mighty disappointed in him. Seems to me his recent moves , especially regarding health reform, were calculated to help get him reelected .
Ya don’t bite the hand that that feeds ya

Hearing on cspan2 about pirating in real time of prosports on the internet. Now there’s an industry that needs further protection from the federal govt. Much more important than protecting poor people.

Yea, life is a stone bitch ain’t it?

always plenty of money for a new sports stadium ( that might get used a few dozen times per year ) never enough for public housing , healthcare , school teachers and on and on.
I wonder if we’ll ever get our priorities straight

Wasn’t that Hitler fella born out of wedlock?

Obama’s remarks in Copenhagen now playing on cspan. Lasts about 10 minutes according to the intro.

No (on priorities). This has been another episode of simple As to simple Qs.

According to his wiki, it was his father who was born out of wedlock.

So his dad would have been aborted under Obamacare, but little baby Adolf would have been okay. Whew, what a relief.

According to Stupak, Hitler’s grandmother would have to pay for the abortion herself.

Does the Senate health care bill put us on a path toward real reform, or does it head us down a valley in which reform will be less likely?

That’s my question. I don’t know where I stand on the Senate bill. I know it’s bad but I’m just not sure that killing it will get us anywhere. If it’s killed, when will we get another chance? The dem base is so depressed that I’m not all that confident that we’re going to expand (or even hold) the majority. OTOH, I hate the bill.
Like I said, I don’t know where I stand.

My take on reforming it later is this:

That’s what they said about Medicare all those years ago. It didn’t happen, if anything it was underfunded and made worse.

Now imagine this Senate bill, as bad as it is, getting chipped away at and made worse.

Kill the mandate or kill the bill!

But, what do you see happening if the bill is killed?

Maybe the goopers will get us healthcare after all they need something to run on other than “NO”. Let’s face it, if they did come out for healthcare reform before the elections they would certainly win.

And Joe Klein is a douche.

Because you know the definition of an extremist is one who begins negotiations with a huge compromise, then continue to accept more and more compromises, until finally they decide they’ve compromised too much.

Yeah, THAT’S and extremist.

Unfortunately we’re in a lose-lose situation. It’s going to suck either way, but I really think, at this point, this bill will actually make a horrible situation even worse.

If I honestly believed this would be even the tiniest step forward I would grudgingly support passing this piece of crap. But I don’t. I honestly believe for every person who might be helped by this bill, three others will find themselves in a worse situation than they currently have (and that’s a conservative estimate).

I’m here to learn. No one thinks that if it passes, it will be improved when merged with the House bill?

Hard to tell, but with even Sanders hedging by saying that something might be better than nothing, the negotiations are not going in the right direction.

Well you came to the right place. Everyone here knows exactly what will happen!

Sanders hedging by saying that something might be better than nothing

That’s what the lemming said as it joined the crowd rushing toward the cliff.

I’m just afraid that if we kill it we will never get another chance to improve it. Like I said, I think 2010 could very likely be a bloodbath for the dems. They’ve let us down mightily and the enthusiasm is gone. OTOH, the repubs have lots of energy and may be out in force.

So when a teabagger yells kill the bill that must really turn you on because you netroot know it alls want to kill the bill.

What happens to this bill if it passes as is and the Goopers gain a majority 2010 or 2012?

I don’t think that’s accurate. There have been a number of expansions, increased inclusions to Medicare. Most objections to funding reform has been by Democrats and progressives because Republicans have dominated the White House for most of the last 45 years and, like Social Security, no one who favored medicare wanted Republicans messing with it.

Similarly Social Security has been revised and expanded a number of times. Both have been third rails that Republicans have found difficult to overtly destroy, but it hasn’t stopped them from trying.

I know I’m like a salmon going upstream on FDL, but I agree with Krugman and Weiner.

What has Weiner said? He’s one I trust.

Then the medical industry problems and the anger about them becomes the Rs problem.

And so, if it passes as is, the Dems will own it and the goopers will be able to crow that they can improve it as the Dems were useless. The goopers will then pick up all the dem seats in 2010.

Kill the damn thing… at least the Dems may well be able to blame the goopers…. and who the hell cares about Oh Bummah! he is dead meat anyway.

The bill won’t pass as-is without significant Republican support. And since all corporate interests have now been bought off at taxpayer expense, I’d think that’s not unlikely.

On Ed Schultz, he said he doesn’t like the Senate Bill at all, and hopes there is still room to fix it in senate and/or House/Senate conference, but the bottom line is that he thinks it’s an improvement and would be both a policy and political mistake to kill it.

who gives a fuck what the republicans crow about?

The voters.

So there is no difference between the parties, Obama is Bush, they are all corporate sellouts but don’t do anything that will hurt their chances with “the voters” Brilliant

Your reasoning seems to be that success of Jim Dement and GOP campaign to torpedo any bill will work well for meaningful health care in the long run and, you suggest Republicans may even usher in and pass meaningful reform. To put it mildly, both hypotheses seem to me to be highly unlikely.

You, my friend, are a great diplomat!

I’m trying. It’s an effort.

Correct

unctuous superiority… …the smarm will still smirk through…

Wow, I don’t know much about Klein, but that is a perfect description of some of the characters I see on the teevee.

Prof. Krugman says “Pass the Bill,” and that the current health care bill falls a long way short of ideal, but it is better than anything that seemed possible just a few years ago.

I hope they’re leaving the comments open on Krugman’s column for more than 5 minutes to get a “true reading” of folks’ reaction. They’ve taken to shutting off comments just hours after things go up; it’s almost impossible to get one in from here in Hawaii, even if, as now, one gets up @ 4am and reads immediately.

Friedman’s had them shut down comments entirely on his stuff.

Here in Hawaii the Republican governor decided that a good way to “balance the budget” was to cut 10% of the school days. [Hawaii currently arm-wrestles with LA, AL and MS for the bottom of the barrel in education rankings.]

“Concerned citizens” and businesses have responded by . . . wait for it . . . having fund-raisers so sports can continue unabated.

The bill won’t pass as-is without significant Republican support. And since all corporate interests have now been bought off at taxpayer expense, I’d think that’s not unlikely.

I think you’re saying that a sufficient number of Repubs will suddenly “find Jesus” and vote for the bill, knowing it will hang like an anvil around Democrats’ necks for the next decades. The reminder of what Democrats “did” we be rubbed into voters’ minds every time they open their paycheck [those who have 'em] and see the big honking deduction for “mandatory care,” every time that deduction goes up & up, every time they STILL get crap care & limits on coverage.

If that is your comment [that enough Repubs will support the bill so it'll pass], then I agree.

Krugman’s become a complete wimp and, maybe a shill.

No. He’s just reality-based. The reality is that the people do not run this country, which is neither ‘of, for, nor by’ the people. Big business runs this country. Our hands are out; they are giving a couple of crumbs. Between crumbs and nothing, I’ll take crumbs until the Revolution comes (not bloodly likely, with tasers and all that at their disposal).

Joe Klein makes prostitutes look like nuns. He will kiss-up to anything if it gets him access and attention.

With regard to our Betrayer-in-Chief, I have been saying that Obama is a Blue Dog since January. Once he selected his cabinet and included Rahm, Geithner, Summers, Rubin (who’s hiding while making shady deals for Goldman Sachs in the back room), I smelled a traitor hiding behind rhetoric. When I said as much, I was dumped on by bloggers saying, “Oh, My. Give him a chance. He’s only been in office two (three, four, etc.) months.” Well, now he’s been in office 11 months. Where’s the CHANGE, the HOPE, the YES WE CAN? Well, the CHANGE is with Obama–he morphed into George W. overnight and jumped into bed with PhRMA and the medical industrial complex. A real orgy! The HOPE is with Rahm and Obama–they hope we won’t notice how they’re selling us, the American people, up the river so Rahm can get his Democratic majority (even if they are Blue Dogs, i.e., more conservative than the Cheneys). And, finally, the YES WE CAN is what Obama is saying as he screws the voters who supported him, the world that believed he would be a force for good, and every poor man, woman, and child without health insurance.

We need to let them know that we’re wise to their phoney act. Vote them out of office and vote in third party candidates who will begin to answer to the voters. To blazes with Joe Klein–he IS, after all, a very small person.

Any time Joke Line comes under discussion, I can’t help remembering that great political cartoon where Joe is looking at a cover of Primary Colors in the book store, and under the kicking donkey it says “By Liar”, and Joe says “I liked it better when it was by anonymous”.