Sounds like the sop to big InsurPharma was the intent all along.

including providing insurance for millions of uninsured

The bill doesn’t do that. It forces people to pay for their own medical care.

only in DC could people think that a bill with mandates and no reasonable options is a good bill

I AM SO DISGUSTED WITH THE LOT OF THEM!

something to watch

Climategate goes SERIAL: now the Russians confirm that UK climate scientists manipulated data to exaggerate global warming — Climategate just got much, much bigger. And all thanks to the Russians who, with perfect timing, dropped this bombshell just as the world’s leaders are gathering …

wonderful

since their email crap was exposed for the rubbish it was they figured they got plenty of play on that hand they will now double down

President Obama may not be disappointed, but I am, in him! Not my idea of change!

The rest of the world can see that various administrations (the last 5 or so) lie through their teeth at every opportunity about every thing they can so we are now an easy mark as to what one is to believe.

There’s a third alternative, too: Keep the Obama gang from reaching 60 votes, and force them to go through reconcilation! This way, progressives would have another chance to improve the bill. The Senators Burris and Sanders are making a stand now for such improvements, pls support them! If they remain steadfast and refuse to vote for Liebercare, Obama will have to either add improvements (not likely those will get 60 votes), or go through reconcilation, where large parts of the bill would only need 51 votes! Don’t give up yet, support the rebels! Pls call the offices of Burris and Sanders today and encourage them to make a stand.

so, how it look realisticallly, are we gonna be able to kill this bill?

What you said. He’s a liar. Plus I don’t give a fuck about the deficit until a helluva lot more people have healthcare, jobs and some money.

I can see now that this president is a one termer and demorats will lose big in 10 and 12 because people cannot tell the difference between the 2 parties.Rethuglicants will win by DEFAULT

He speaks. I was beginning to worry he wasn’t paying attention. I guess now that Holy Joe has come up with a game he likes, Obama has decided that he has time to come out and play after all. And I thought that George W. Bush and Karl Rove cynically manipulated the public into wanting things that were infinitely bad for it.

The most contemptible thing is that he thinks his supporters are rubes.
As of course do the Republicans.
Who said that bipartisanship was beyond our grasp?

Either by some Senators refusing to play along and vote for the crap, or by the progressive block in the House making a stand against it. Opposition in the Senate has a better chance to succeed because rebel Senators may force Reid to go through reconcilation. So, pls support Burris and Sanders!

sanders was hedging his oposition quite a bit, it looks to me like he’s going to “try to fix it”

which hopefully means the mandate goes but I don’t think we can count on sanders even if the mandate stays

I know it’s only a small chance Burris and Sanders won’t capitulate to the pressure, or be bribed away by small, meaningless “improvements”, but it’s the only chance to stop this crap now, or at least make it less painful.

then you and I have a very different opinion about what the task is here

Fuckin’ right I do. Forcing millions of people to buy a crappy product from corporate profiteers is not my idea of health care reform.

Fuck you, Obama.

Mornin’, BT, pups

things he wanted to see in the health care legislation — including providing insurance for millions of uninsured and not driving up the deficit —

Note the word *insurance*. He wanted to provide insurance.
Not healthcare. Certainly not Healthcare for All. He wanted to give his buddies the insurance companies their profits. He’s said that all along.

Not driving up the deficit?

Funny, he doesn’t have a problem spending trillions for bankers and wars….

I’m surprised that there has been relatively little objection to the mandate from the progressives. I’ve thought that is a terrible idea all along. Mandates are the whole basis of this bill, and they are fatally flawed.

even if sanders and burrins vote agaist the bill, sanders said he won’t vote against cloture

in addition, this is a corporate gift, that means a couple of republicans will almost definately vote for it to prove they are “bi-partisant”

this is getting scarier and scarier

The kind of “insurance” that will result from the senate bill will quickly devolve to everyone except the rich paying their own medical bills. The rich will be covered by their employers.

This bill is the same as fighting hunger by forcing poor hungry people to buy food or fighting homelessness by forcing the homeless to buy houses.

The mandate is unacceptable. End of story. It IS a protection racket and fitting given that Obama is a Chicago gangster, as is Rahm. Criminals, crooks, and immoral idiots every member of Obama’s cabinet, every one of his advisors (the ones he actually listens too).

Of course, the horrible bill, as it is now, will drive up the deficit! There’s nothing in it to really reduce the costs, or to increase the competition. So, those subsidies will soon become too small. With insurance companies having a monopoly in many states, and no regulation limiting their profits, premiums will inevitably reach a level that many people simply can’t afford. But the mandate will still force them to sign up, or pay the fine! So, with this crap, a larger deficit because of rising subsidy costs can’t be avoided. It’s total madness!

I had no problem with a mandate so long as I could go with a non-profit public option or equivalent (NON-profit). When they took away that very popular component, it made the mandate illegal government-enforced profiteering for private corporations. That, my friends, is the very definition of fascism.

No mandate without a non-profit public option. Period.

This bill is the same as fighting hunger by forcing poor hungry people to buy food or fighting homelessness by forcing the homeless to buy houses.

Excellent way to put it. Thanks for clarifying the language.

So why isn’t Obama ditching his Hawaiian vacation to fight for good HCR? Oh – he thinks this is good HCR.

“sanders said he won’t vote against cloture”
I haven’t read that yet. Can you provide a quote?
If this is true, it’s only Burris making a lone stand. He has nothing to lose, but will he have the spine to pull this through?

FORCING people to buy insurance from private, for profit, companies is NOT the same as providing them with health care.

I’ve come to the conclusion that he really does think we are stupid. And he really doesn’t care what we think or want.

Morning all.
I have had a problem with this legislation from the git go. If there is a reduction in the deficit by a hundred billion then this is a revenue source for the government for all manner of things that do not include providing health care. It should be revenue neutral.

Same old same old. This is the same escape clause used by congress criminals on unacceptable SCOTUS judges: I will not vote for the nominee but I WILL vote for cloture. Voting for cloture (or not voting against cloture in Sanders’ case) IS THE SAME THING AS VOTING FOR THE BILL!

Sanders better rethink his position or my support of him will go the way of my support for the Democrap Party. You cannot have it both ways Sanders. NO on cloture is the only vote that matters.

I don’t have it here but I am sure I heard it

Mayhaps all the sideshows, abortion, etc, were there just to distract attention from the mandate provision(s). Lessee now, Obama continued the Shrub bankster bailout, bailed out the auto industry and is attempting to provide the health insurance industry with a captive consumer base.

What’s next Obama, making Wal-Mart the official US retail chain?

Everybody is a fucking liar. YOU are a fucking liar, yea YOU!

I cannot take credit. Someone in the comments at Salon made the argument and I told him that I was going to use them henceforth because they are so apt and simple.

Folks, pls call Sanders’ office today and make the point he should put up or shut up. A vote for cloture is a vote for THE CRAP. Period.
He should go all in, or stop the phony grandstanding.

You LIE!!1!

“Everybody is a fucking liar.”
So, you’re a fucking liar, too. And then, your statement is a lie…oh, wait. Damn, now I am confused!
:D

KO was spot on. I will NOT buy this mandated aver-priced trash. Furthermore I can’t wait til 2010 and 2012 to vote a straight Republican ticket. I have never voted for a Republican in my life but I’ve had enough. If I’m going to be represented by corporate whores, then I want them to tell me they are corporate whores. Republicans pretty much do that. I feel like the ugly girl going to the party but never asked to dance. NO MORE.

not driving up the deficit

because a number with no meaning whatsoever is far far more important than ten’s of thousands of deaths in america every year.

this is the kind of statement that made me learn to despise bush.

that’s the name of that tune

it’s all bullshit

So you’d vote for Palin/Beck in 2012?

What Obama really meant:

“The perfect (benefit for you) is the enemy of the good (for us).”

I’m so slow. It’s taken me months to find those missing words.

Obama defending this piece of garbage says it all. He’ll try and spin it as a great victory for the American public. A corrupt, lazy corporate media, infatuated with power and celebrityhood, will help spread the lie. It’s early but would love to start hearing of a primary challenger to this pretender.

Obama is happy to force us – making criminals of the unwilling – to pay for insurance sold by poorly unregulated sellers who have few incentives to deliver quality products at a reasonable price, and great freedom to sell products that gouge customers. This is the antithesis of market reforms. It is government mandated monopoly. It is as if Obama were making it a crime to use cash, and, instead, forced us to take use credit cards from Chase and Citi, at 30%.

Mr. Obama’s claim that he was “hands off” and that this process and outcome are Congress’ doing will persuade no one he is telling the truth. It’s a lie, the kind we expected from George Bush every day. This is his handiwork. He is happy with this outcome. He has chosen to reform the “market” by subsidizing insuresters profits, by protecting their stranglehold on health care, by institutionalizing their current business practices.

We should no longer be surprised that Barack Obama’s campaign happy talk was any indication of how he intended to operate. He did it for Wall Street. He is doing it for credit card issuers. He is doing it by not reforming the DoJ and by insulating George Bush and his men from their crimes. The only thing Mr. Obama really wanted changed was the name on the White House letterhead. He did change that.

For Obama, this bill is a good deal, as it is for the insuresters and their pet Congresscritters and the Democratic Party machinery. Everyone else, not so much.

Done.

Ed Schultz carrying the torch for progressives on Morning Joe.

If that means unseating Obama? Yes. But rest assured, that will not be the ticket. Also, there is always someone else in the race. Communist, socialist, libertarian, green, whatever. ANY of them will be my choice over Obama. He’s done.

If Obama’s sham of healthcare reform becomes law there will likely by civil disobedience on a scale not seen since the civil rights movement and the Viet Nam era.

Low info voters are catching on.

Mayhaps all the sideshows, abortion, etc, were there just to distract attention from the mandate provision(s

and the po imo was sideshow number one.

btw, if you haven’t already, you might be interested in this paper from oct 2007, The Logic of the Health Care Debate. it’s about “the neoliberal mode of thought is at the center of the health care debate.”

Please do not vote for any repubs,either vote for a better Progressive or do not vote at all

All that’s left is for him to call us names and he would sound like bush.

Bluetoe2: I believe you are correct though it will be disconcerting: progressives (with the stones) disobeying the criminal mandate for good, liberty-loving, people-caring reasons alongside crazy-assed Tea Baggers doing it because it is somehow “socialism”.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. At that moment for the purpose of killing the mandate only.

The U.S. elected a smooth talking narcissist with an unhealthy bipartisanship fetish willing to do or say anything to get elected.

I’m an old fart, on Medicare, so technically I have no dog in this hunt. Nevertheless, I am as disgusted as I’ve been in I don’t know how long: disgusted with the shambles this country has become, ‘ruled’ as it is by a bunch of no good greedy power-hungry scum suckers, unprincipled, basically dishonest to the core, dishonorable traitors to what once were apparent threads of decency linked together to hold up a human society. Unfortunately, my sense now tells me that Obama is one of ‘them’ and not one of ‘us’, not one of those who hoped an American renaissance was not only possible but perhaps imminent. But no. Greed, the never-ending quest for money and power was victorious yet one more time, and now tens of thousands must die unnecessarily to satisfy lust, envy, wrath, and the false pride of patriotic ‘free enterprise uber alles’ fervor.

If I were forty years younger, in good health, and of average means, I would leave these shores, never look back, and never return.

that ship sailed

BTW, Selise, thanks for pointing out that paper yesterday over on EW. I read it and shared it with Mrs. Bilbo. Very interesting formulation.

G’mornin’ all !

Did anyone catch Howard Dean on JoeScar this a.m. ? Dean said that while he will support Obama, he won’t “vigorously support” him.

JoeScar joked that this will lead to a Repug win in 2012 …

Thank you! Every little bit of pressure helps now.

Oh, and how about supporting Senator Burris stand “for a bill that achieves the goals of a public option: competition, cost savings and accountability” at this NBC poll:
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/Burriss-Health-Care-Demands-Grow-Louder-79410477.html
It looks like some right wingers are driving up the “furious” votes. We at OpenLeft already had “thrilled” at 70% yesterday, but the numbers are dropping. Pls make a statement for a better reform at that poll!

thanks for the link. from the comments:

if children are starving you feed them.
you dont barter to make sure the provider is earning profits first.

Yes, you do have a dog in this fight.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/12/15/obama.debt.commission/index.html

You’re prolly right. I’ll read the paper at work. My Verizon DSL is still slower than dial up.

morning bilbo. i just read it recently – thanks to a commenter here who’s name i’ve forgotten (thanks, whoever you are and please forgive me bad memory!) and also found it a very interesting way to look at the debate we’ve seen. and that it was written over 2 years ago is imo pretty impressive.

I didn’t think Idiocracy was a very good movie.

I think it’s going to be even worse as a reality.

The mandates have to go. No doubt about that. KO is right about that. As for 2010 and 2012. There’s no way in hell I would ever vote for a rebublican. I will vote for a dem with some spine. There has to be some out there who are willing to run and stick to their promises. Maybe wishful thinking? We need more Alan Greysons and Al Frankens. Howard Dean also knows of what he speaks.

Im just here; that’s exactly my question. Where in the bill, or does it, provide all that additional coverage?

If any criticism is to be levied here, it is at the opposition of meaningful healthcare reform or incompetent democrats such as the Clintons, Edwards, Schumer, Pelosi, Reid, etc. Obama is playing a hand, the incompetent democratic led Congress and he is making the best bets he can. None of you whiners are realistic about what could have been done when you have Lieberman, Reid and Pelosi at the head of the train. And just imagine what would have happened if the Clintons were running the show again. We know the past.

I didn’t take the poll but I misinterpreted it. I thought “Furious” was over the senate bill, not burris’ stand. It wasn’t clear to me so I guess it is a good thing I didn’t vote.

obama has bought into the original description of fascism as musilini defined it, a melding of corporations with the state

obama actually believes it’s not government function providing jobs, that’s why his “jobs program” meant “I will give money to banks and hope they will lend money to business and I hope that business will hire people”

he really really does not believe in government he believes in the private sector

this is bad, really really bad

can you say “trojan horse”?

ROTFLOL!!!

Joe was also all over “no one fears Obama”.

more linkies for recent history (last few years) background here:

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18788#comment-107912

Enough is enough.I may vote for Palin after this fiasco.

Obama is playing a hand

that’s not what has happened at all

obama is forcing a hand, he’s asking for the cards and then making believe those are the cards he’s dealt

this is entirely the zero’s fault, he not once fought for a public solution yet here he is fighting for the liarman’s solution

it’s absolutely clear, this is the hand he wanted to play, he fixed the deck and now is making believe he was dealth these cards

obama is a blue dog, of this there is no doubt

Those of you saying Sanders and/or Burris shouldn’t vote for cloture…did you say the same about Lieberman not voting for cloture? You can’t be for majority rule in only some cases. For the record, I don’t like this bill, but not voting for cloture is undemocratic.

Oops, that’s a point, maybe others have misunderstood that, too!
The poll is about how the readers feel about Burris making a stand for a better reform, so “thrilled” is the proper vote, of course.

palin has a real chance of winning if we do not primary the zero

Going back to my Q: why have the progressives not been on top of it?

Wrong. I trust Feingold on this. Lieberman is merely Obama’s buttbuddy in the senate pressuring the senate to adopt what Obama wanted all along: profits for insurance companies and big pharma. Any healthcare benefits that happened to fall out would be purely incidental.

Obama (and Rahm) want insurance company and pharma money to flow heavily into Democrap pockets rather than GOPer pockets. That is all that they care about. They are Chicago School criminals.

Reid is fast becoming irrelevant. He is going to lose his seat in 2010.

Pelosi is on thin ice. She has shown recent signs of being OK with passing a no-public option bill (indicating that she is actually on the side of the Chicago Schoolers here). She is also playing a pure game with the Patriot Act, holding up its renewal for points but will then cave as she always intended and pass it totally unchanged. Again. Thin ice.

You’re right, Frugal. Those of us who are not stuck for insurance can still have moral outrage at this version of “Hope” and “Change” made manifest. I didn’t expect much from obama, given his actual votes or non-votes, in spite of his good speeches. What I didn’t expect was this lowest of roads for him to travel. The only thing that may be operative, and we’ll never know, is that he has been credibly threatened, and he would rather be a one-termer than emulate JFK.

She is a MILF. Afterall, all you need to be to be President these days is a empty bag of skin, able to be the puppet for bankers, finance, and big corporations. She has a pretty skin and nothing else so she’ll do fine. Same as Obama but way hotter.

She’s thus fully qualified.

i agree it’s a kind of corporatism , but i don’t think it’s just obama. (although his statement above did seriously piss me off).

new post up top…

The filibuster is undemocratic, period. That’s the big problem. But since it’s unlikely a majority of Senators wants to reduce their own power now, we have to accept that reality.

Progressives should be for majority rule, and for improving this bill or else letting it fail. So, of course, calling for Burris and hopefully Sanders to refuse cloture, and thus forcing Reid to use reconcilation instead (where only 51 votes are needed for large parts of the bill!) is the right, democratic stance right now. If you care about majority rule, you should support that.

If this trend continues, Obama will have less friends than Tiger Woods.

Aw shoot, more readin’ ?!!

No. The filibuster is democratic and good. The way it is currently enacted is not a real filibuster, however. THAT is what needs to change, not getting rid of the filibuster.

A filibuster would have prevented Alito and Roberts from getting on the SCROTUS.

Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. Think of a GOP-dominated congress with NO way to stop simple majoritarian dictatorship. The GOP would be able to pass anything and everything they wanted simply by holding a bare majority in either or both houses of congress. That is NOT how it is supposed to be.

Of course, with modern Democraps, whether the GOP is in the minority or majority they still get whatever the fuck they want so it is kinda a moot point.

I am all for reconciliation. But using the filibuster just because it’s what a majority of senators support is crap. If it’s undemocratic we shouldn’t use it, ever, full stop. If we do, where the hell are our principles? It’s ‘hard reality’ arguments like that that got us into the whole torture fiasco.

Rev, in response to your question the other day, no I don’t. If you still have mine, write me. Or, we’ll have to get them again. Maybe Saturday at PUAC.

my two cents for your Q: con job from dem party associated think tanks. i’m actually more convinced of this after listening to presentations made at “progressive” conferences, etc (for example “take back america 2008″).

Think of the skill it took to get the do nothing GOP and liberals on the same (kill it!) side of a bill you’ve worked all year to pass.

Congrats to the Democrats — once again able to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!

You cannot be serious. Are you claiming that Obama would not support the House Bill if it would pass the Senate? The point is that there never were 60 votes in the Senate for the House Bill. NEVER. And this was known by the WH from the gitgo. Get real. Please. Praise Obama for the courage to run and the skill to get elected. Hopefully we will get something here covering pre-existing conditions and then we can have a “bail out” through reconciliation of those who cannot affoord to pay the increased premiums.

Feingold???????????? She is seriously part of the problem and not part of the solution. Feingold annoys me no end.

They have their money to keep them warm.

of course I’m serious, NO BILL is better then this bill and obama needed to fight for a health bill or take it through reconciliation

of COURSE I was serious, are you?

obama FORCED this bill, he was NOT “playing the cards he was dealt” he picked the cards to play, this is a fact not speculation

as you can see, he NEVER fought for a public solution yet now all of a sudden he’s fighting for the corporate solution

if you cannot see this which is clear as day then I have no idea what you are looking at

Obama should’ve insisted on the public option from the git go, made it the single non-negotiable issue in the bill.

What good is being POTUS if you can’t get such a cost effective measure in the bill?

off for coffee and the day… peace to all.

Just think how much more compliant all employees will be who work for employers who still offer health insurance. How many of them do you think will publicly advocate for EFCA now? Three-dimensional chess, indeed.

On an earlier EW thread, I suggested that we were in an undeclared struggle with a kind of American Fascism. It’s a problematic comparison. It is incomplete, but might explain some of the forces we are wrestling with. But in America, such language is deemed silly or beyond the pale – we don’t do that here.

That was true for part of our history, though business and corrupt practices have influenced government (and churches) more than we know or feel comfortable admitting. More recently, it is also because of neocons’ abuse of language generally, and specifically because of intellectual vomit such as Jonah Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism. That propaganda is succeeding, in that accurately describing some of today’s trends and government measures as Fascistic evokes derision rather than recognition, outrage and action.

A Fascistic trend we are wrestling with right now is private corporate dominance over public power and lawmaking. A timely example is Obama using the coercive power of the criminal law to force us to buy fraudulent products from private, poorly regulated insuresters. He calls this a “market-based” reform. It looks creepily like something else.

If this thing fails this year it is over.I have been following closely [more than usual]and I only know two things for sure that are in this bill.I will be mandated to buy ins. and they are cutting 500 billion from medicaire.That is why the polls are against this crap.The whole thing has been behind closed doors.Not the way Obama said he would do it.Supposed to be on c-span.Transparency my butt.

obama needs this bill to pass. it’s about his lagacy. he is lining up his lucrative lecture tour when he leaves office in 2013.the goodship of hope will be ready to sail by then.

Ashley, refusing to accept the filibuster may be principled, but it doesn’t change anything, and only puts our side on a losing streak. Rethuglicans and Bluedogs use it all of the time, and if progressive Senators shouldn’t use it, this puts them at a severe disadvantage. Really, sry, but imho, if you think it’s principled to bring a knife to a gunfight, there’s something wrong with that principle.

But having the filibuster exist at all just always leaves it as an option for obstructionists to take. Yes, if we abolished it, we’d end up getting a lot of Republican crap passed that we would hate, but that’s democracy. If you don’t go with a simple majority all the time, where do you draw the lines on what needs a super majority and what doesn’t?

Again, those are the same excuses used for torture. It may be naive to bring a knife to a gun fight, but I’d rather be naive and dead than unprincipled and alive.

Well. I guess you do not have a pre-exisitng condition which has resulted in your being denying insurance coverage. And I conclude that as far as those who do have pre-exisiting conditions and have been denied insurance coverage, you say screw them. Join the Sean Hannity Club.

The point is that you and I agree on the need for health insurance reform and if it has to be incremental, even painfully incremental, I will take that because what we do not agree on is how incompetent the US Congress is and I have no confidence in that instituion. I do have confidence in Obama and I believe he is doing what he believes is possible now.

Um…Feingold is a he. Maybe you’re thinking of Diane?

I’m betting that he’ll be the first sorta black preznit of Harvard or the first sort of person of color to head the Ford Foundation. The Way of the Ford/Harvard Warrior: Fuck us.

This is a BONANZA to the insurance monopoly! It serves each of us up as sacrificial lambs to the Insurance Gods. Basically, the GOP prediction of “death panels” is being brought to fruition by Emanuel, Reid and Obama.

The insurance monopoly will doom us all to an early death. Thank you, gang of liars and corporate stoolies! Thanks but no thanks. We now know that you’re just a gang of liars using Bushitco’s tools of smoke & mirrors.

We will make certain that every Blue Dog and this entire Administration will definitely NOT be re-elected in 2012.

How could we have been soooo incredibly wrong about Obama? How did he dupe us so magically?

With each passing disappointment and broken campaign promise, it’s clear that we’ve been “had” by this White House.

I cannot wait for Obama and the Blue Dogs to turn to their “non-existent base” now and begin asking for support or money. I just can’t wait to see the shock and awe on their faces when they realize that they’re left alone in the cold – with the base totally gone and the GOP’s firing line still actively trying to decimate them.

I’ve told the democratic fund-raising ‘tools’ and the white house to shove it and not harass me any longer with their fund-raising emails. I will not vote for any of these traitors of the people ever again.

If you can’t get what you want with 60, how does “incremental” work when you’re down to 55 or 50? The short answer is “it doesn’t”.

Incremental is just another synomym for “screwjob”, folks.

Right now there are AT MINIMUM 5 seats in the Senate which will turn Republican. That’s the truth of it – and I would venture to guess that by the time we find out what’s really been going on behind closed doors with this White House and the Blue Dogs, that number may rise to even 10 seats.

So how does that calculate for the concept of “incremental improvement”?

Let’s be realistic here guys…..incremental will NEVER happen. This bill is so full of loopholes that it resembles swiss cheese right now so any thought of “real reform” is nil.

So how do you reconcile that this is a “foundation” for reform at all?

If there is no foundation, how does the bull$hit line of “incremental” work. Will someone please enlighten me?

If I KNEW SOMEBODY [TERRORIST]may have info. that could possibly save my sons life and that terrorist needed waterboarding or sleep deprivation, I would do any thing to protect him.They choose to be terrorist so they choose the consequences.I want affordable ins.for my family and of course every body else.Two different subjects.

Are you aware that the crippled bill has so many loopholes for the insurance companies now, that the “prexisting condition” rule probably won’t help at all? Without a public option, or any other alternative for the customers, privat insurances will simply be too expensive for most. What does it help you that they are somewhat forbidden to exclude you, if you simply can’t afford the premiums?

A Fascistic trend we are wrestling with right now is private corporate dominance over public power and lawmaking. A timely example is Obama using the coercive power of the criminal law to force us to buy fraudulent products from private, poorly regulated insuresters. He calls this a “market-based” reform. It looks creepily like something else.

In a way, Obama is correct about calling out the health care agenda as “market-based” reform, as long as he is referring to the hidden agenda of feeding the financial sector’s health care investment banking. It was the only sector in investment banking that survived the economic finance industry collapse and reaped record profits for the financial industry according to Goldman Sachs.

I am assuming he is actually referring to the financial “market based” reform. In that case, he called the fascism out in an odd way. /s

The insurance monopoly assisted by Rahm Emanuel, the Blue Dogs and Obama are raping the public with this faux reform bill. The loopholes will permit even more heinous theft from the american people and more people dying. The “mandate” is a sheer BONANZA for the insurance companies, mind you, at the taxpayer’s expense….like giving them billions on a silver platter. Aren’t these the guys who have been screwing us all along? Aren’t these the very guys who are defacto “death panels” and dooming our loved ones to death daily? Aren’t these the very culprits Obama campaigned against?

Something’s radically wrong with this picture….either Obama is being blackmailed by those who really run this government or he’s the biggest liar on the planet – which is it?

Jesus H Christ. Have NONE of you heard of “dictatorship of the majority”? Eh? Have none of you studied history? We have had the filibuster since the Founding. They knew and agreed full-well with it. It IS a tool to protect the country from majority rule, which IS a dictatorship of the majority.

The filibuster stays. It has always been, and always must remain so long as there is a Reichwing, an easily corrupted SCROTUS, and people. It serves a valid and fully democratic purpose. The only problem with it is how it is done today. The filibuster actually used to be painful for all concerned, so it was actually used sparingly. Since Byrd dicked the whole thing up not all that long ago, however, the “filibuster” has become literally painless and merely a day-to-day tool that is over-used.

Return the true filibuster, one that shuts down the senate entirely until it ends and involves true physical hardship (speaking on the floor for HOURS AND HOURS, repeated quorum calls, etc) and you would see it return to what it was intended for BY THE FOUNDERS. A good, though rarely used tool to protect the minority from the dictatorship of the majority.

Now get back on the real topic.

Every aspect of what they are dubbing “reform” has it’s very own loophole written by an insurance lobbyist. This bill has become a total joke. More importantly, the idea of giving away taxpayer dollars to the very criminals who have been gaming this insurance system for decades is vulgar and disgusting. And that’s precisely what this “mandate” will accomplish.

Hell, insurance stock skyrocketed this week. Why is that? Of course, it’s because they’ve won this game. Game over, Democrats. Your gig is up. You’ve failed the american people miserably and we will again show you that ‘lies have consequences’.

Agreed. This Congress needs to be shut down and summarily. It’s totally ineffective and basically a useless cipher.

Via this healthcare debacle, the democrats and the White House have destroyed the public trust. This is a breach which will destroy this party ultimately as it has done to the GOP. The schism brewing within the Democratic party right not will divide it in two. Obama will become a lame duck president unless he does the right thing now.

Yes, I’ve thought of that too. And if one assumes, as I do, that JFK’s demise was the result of a coup d’etat by those who had concluded that JFK was not nearly enough of a warmonger (i.e., an insufficient M.I.C./corporate enabler), then bingo, Obama’s ridiculous Afghanistan policy clarifies as a potential CYA move as well. No matter the realities of the moment, though, one thing is increasingly obvious, and that’s that the American fascist right will NOT, under any circumstances, EVER allow the American Progressive left to reconstruct a prosperous nation, one that stuffs the official enabling of acquisition of money and power into lockdown in favor of individual prosperity and a balanced economy. The old New Deal and New Frontier idealism lies permanently pinned beneath the boot heal of greed, power, and intellectual sloth.

Reid is one of those “minimum” 5. So is Dodd.

Good riddance to both. Reid will be particularly gratifying to me and a REAL bow shot to the Democraps.

The wounds are fully self-inflicted and DESERVED.

Fuck ‘em.

Join the class action lawsuit which is formulating right now because it’s unconstitutional for Congress to mandate the citizens to purchase anything from an entirely ‘for profit’ corporation. This is NOT like the mandate to have car insurance and is being spun as a “non-equivalent’ by the Dems right now. With car insurance, one can opt out by simply using mass transportation and unlike the liability involved in vehicle accidents, when one is sick, it’s personal and doesn’t involve another. Let us not be fooled into believing that this mandate is constitutional; it is not.

Like Keith Olberman, many americans are now standing up and pledging NOT to purchase this mandated insurance.

This country began it’s slide into irrelevancy and corruption with the coverup of JFK’s death. Pappy Bush was head of CIA – what does that tell you?

What’s most significant here is that the Democrats, thanks to Rahm Emanuel and his Blue Dogs) have decimated this presidency and their own party now.

The GOP has stood on the sidelines being labeled as ‘obstructionists’ at every turn which will definitely NOT win them any laurels with the american people as indicated by recent polling; however, the Dems have shot themselves in the foot on every issue and cannot point fingers at the Republicans now.

This proves one thing: The Democrats cannot govern. This ends the argument once and for all.

ins. companies and big banks also.Change we can believe in?I am also ticked off that they voted against overseas drug companies being allowed access into our markets.Competition is a good thing.Obama made a deal with big Pharma.

Have you noticed how many Independents (leaning Democrat) have joined the TeaParty? Just look at yesterday’s poll which is painting the teaparty in a more favorable light. Why do you think that is occurring?

It’s because disappointed, disgusted, and disenfranchised progressives who may be anti-war or anti-liars are joining in the chorus.

the beginning of the end of this president’s popularity (and his presidency) was the day it was leaked that he’d penned a “backdoor deal” with Big Pharma. Ostensibly, it was spun as a boon to helping to fund health care coverage; bull$hit, I say. Big Pharma has already raised their prices by 9% this past year to accommodate for this money they’ve promised to give and will recoup that and then some with even higher prices to come. Big Pharma’s contribution is a joke. Those 30 dems who voted against permitting us to obtain less expensive medications will pay a heavy price and will not be re-elected. Once they violate the public trust by being so blatantly admitting that they’re pharma prostitutes, they do not deserve to represent the people.

I think it’s time for progressives who have “had enough” of this nonsense to step up and unite against this healthcare sham.

And I am totally ashamed of this President for selling out the american people. His absence in defending his campaign promises and fighting for the people is appalling to me at this point. Even if he does the right thing and vetoes a bill with a mandate, it will not be enough to reverse the negative sentiments of those who believed in him.

Obama’s quote in this post,

“the president said he laid out for Congress specific things he wanted to see in the health care legislation — including providing insurance for millions of uninsured and not driving up the deficit — and that the current bill still has those benefits”

is facile, misleading, and clear evidence that his goals never included improved health care and affordability to the American people. Anyone can point to a pile of sh*t and note one or good things about it, but that doesn’t negate the influence of other factors (loopholes, giveaways, onerous mandates) that make it a pile of sh*t.

If FDR had allowed private interests to take control of the CCC and gouge the American people, then taken credit for all of the jobs it created, there would have been hell to pay, and for good reason. Obama is using the broader coverage provided by the Senate bill as camouflage for the huge windfall it gives to big insurance, on the backs of Americans who can’t afford the mandated premiums (during a depression), and who, in many cases, will still bump up against the caps, claim denials, red tape, and slow reimbursement that we currently live with.

This is a travesty.

At least the tea parties have the balls to get out their and protest.Palin is gonna ride that wave to go as far as she wants to go.Their are millions of them and every one is gonna vote.Mass.had 10% turnout for Kennedys seat.

New post way up top…

a men to that.Big pharma. raises its prices and the vote to ban overseas drugs comes right after.I do understand that it takes money for researching new drugs. Still,competition would bring their prices down.Competition is the key.

Interesting, too, how many of the same CIA players that were on hand for the JFK assassination were on hand for the assassination of his brother, RFK, on June 5 1968, the date the coup was finalized, less than eight months before Nixon began the final trek to American Fascism. This country has been effectively dead for more than forty years already, and only now is a significant number of its population beginning to figure it out. And yep, you bet, the Bush family played a major role beginning way back in the thirties when Dubsy’s grandpa Prescott effectively ran Brown Brothers Harriman and their dealings with Hitler. American scum doesn’t only lie on the surface.

this shit goes all the way back to Woodrow Wilson.He threw people in jail for protesting W.W.1.20% OF Americans supported that European fiasco.

thanks for the save demi. i didn’t dare touch it. heh.

Anyone want to know how all this is being done? We’re getting jacked with carefully scripted myths. Rachel Maddow had two segments on this last night.

Health reform opponents resort to digital dirty tricks

GOP unrestrained in health reform opposition

The second segment features blatant use of weaponized mythology. First is a “prayer-cast” to stop health care reform. And then we see that C Street cult member Sam Brownback is listed just ahead of Lou Engle, who is shown preaching the apocalypse and then slipping in the politics. It’s an explicit use of the most powerful beliefs of a voting bloc to jack them to hell.

From c. 4:40-5:10 in the “GOP unrestrained” segment, you can see Engle training his audience to become martyrs.

“God, mark me now! Mark me! As a man and woman of the cross of Jesus Christ! Say ‘mark me!’”

As one with a BA in psychology, I recognize those techniques. They’re based on studies that show getting someone to make a statement, even in favor of something they actually oppose, can change attitudes and thus behavior. With this propaganda, they’re making attacks, even suicidal ones, far more likely.

This is why I say, jacking public opinion with carefully scripted myths is the state of the art in manufacturing consent.

BTW, Obama is using it too. His West Point and Nobel speeches were chock full of myths designed to jack us into ever more war.

Well it seems clear now that from the beggining “reform” was going to be mandates. thats it! thats their whole “reform” and thats where secretly , they were taking it from the start. almost secretly thanks to jane..i guess the douchebag supreme in the WH, obama, buys into the “market” reform bullshit. which makes him a complete and total “new democrat” piece of shit.

ive come to th conclusion thats hes that cold. evil even. which, in a way is cool, because now that obama sucks and i hate him, i can use all those hilarious frank chick tract cartoons of him with horns and glowing eyes.

whoa jean. dont go that far. cast a write in for bob dylan or someone. not voting for obama is good enough, you dont HAVE to vote for the wasillia hillbillies. unless you think she would be a good president. if thats the case we need to do an intervention.

i’d be surprised if any republicans vote for the bill. it’s political suicide, and they have more party discipline than that. now that specter’s out of the caucus, who strays?

I think the non-profit “Public Option” to balance the “mandates” should be available to virtually anyone that wants in. If it’s not, then it isn’t competition and has no substantial effect. I’m glad I found this place. Ya’all are smarties.

Burris has nothing to lose, and he sincerely cares about his legacy, so has everything to gain by standing firm.

So, if he does the right thing, how many of you will eat crow over opposing his appointment?

This is Hillary Care II replete with a mandatory market for the monopolies and HMOs. No one can afford it and this will be a 20+ % tax for junk insurance. Even with HMOs now the copays are devastating to a working schmuck. This is going to feed the GOP like nothing in history. If I didn’t know better, even I would be tempted to join them. People will be furious… livid… incensed… ummm… crazy. We ain’t all “middle class” and subsidies don’t mean jack, when you’re already making 20 grand per year less than you truly need to take care of your family. Get a union job, get taxed for your “benefits;” now that’s moving on up, eh?

Aside from the facts that this won’t work, prices will escalate, Medicare will bankrupt, it’s political suicide.

We are living in Jonestown. That was VERY alarming.

Blagojovich and Burris, gangsters of the proletariat. Good catch. I’m humbled and inspired. It would make a believer out of me.

It’s not “market-based”, though, in the sense of allowing “the market” to come to its own temporary equilibrium as a result of open competition among many sellers, suppliers and customers, based on equivalent access to necessary (or perfect) information.

It is the very thing Republicans and conservatives claim to hate. It is the government stepping in and overriding market forces by legally mandating Americans to buy insurance from private sellers. This bill reinforces existing monopolies and oligopolies and thereby enhances their power. IT is the definition of market abuse.

No, no Ashley. Remember the filibuster/cloture was USED to DICTATE concessions and compromises to the bill. So we are standing here with the RESULTS of filibuster/closture. That makes it totally fair game to alter or stop by filibuster/cloture.

Keith and Ed are kicking ass, but will Racheal join in or will she continue with the soft ball questions?

She needs to start bringing up the mandate to these senators wich she has been avoiding!

They also need to start correcting the senator when they say where covering 30 million more people, they need to jump in a say are you not forcing 30 million people to buy insurance?

Never trust people that don’t lie. They can’t keep a secret.

The problem is, when YOU are the one “out of the loop.”

It does’nt. This bill will shovel billions into the hands of the very people who will work 24/7 ENDLESSLY to buy politicians, devise strategies, and manipulate media to squash any “incrementalism.”

A corporate whore is a corporate whore and an ass is still an ass. I have voted for both many times over. There’s not a fucking dime’s difference between any of them. I hate Palin, Beck, Limpball, O’reilly, Hannity, and the whole fucking bunch, but I know where they stand. But no I wouldn’t vote for them, but I’ll not support another fucking corporate whore either.

Rahm Emmanuel needs to be fired. Howard Dean should have his job. How can anybody trust Obama with Rahm at his elbow. Worse than Rove.Rahm tries to make policy different than the president.

I live in upper state ME. Very very conservative. There was a town hall type meeting here a few days ago. People who voted for Obama think ME has a chance in 2010 to elect a republican gov. We couldn’t do worse …our dem gov was in the Family when he was in DC. Runs the state like 1933 Germany.Nothing for the people . ..all for the corporations. We have community schools. At a time when the state is broke…he wants to consolidate..even though it will cost money. Takes away your sense of place and identity. They certainly have an agenda.