Zed

Aloha ES…!!!

Wow. This has not been a good day for the White House. Even at Daily Kos people are very critical of Obama over the Senate health-care bill.

Good evening

With good reason… wigwam…! ;-)

Not enough yet, though.

Hey ES!

Yes, you are right. And this has not been a good day for my heart. Hiya wigwam.

It’s not surprising. The whole of the Dem leadership has been doing its best to piss off the base.

Great news.. I have a house full of company and cannot begin to keep up these days.

Food? Entertainment? Music? Can we help out?

I sense a general fuckery about the nation . . . wassup here at LLN?

Kelly said he had some ‘splainin to do . .

If he missed it below, my snark knows no bounds, see my #163!

*G*

Now to view the vids and get on board . . . ;-)

They well phooking should be!!!!!

Got it all covered… I’m a professional…)

Great.

Professional what, ES…? ;-)

Entertainment.

The only person putting up a cogent defense of the Senate bill is Nate Silver;

* http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/why-progressives-are-batshit-crazy-to.html

* http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/20-questions-for-bill-killers.html

But Jon Walker has posted an excellent response: http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/16/answering-nate-silvers-20-questions-on-killing-the-senate-bill/

Meanwhile the White House and their allies like Jay Rockefeller have been calling Howard Dean “irresponsible” and “irrational” for his opposition to it.

Does it pay well…?!! Just kidding…!

Wish I waz at your house ES!

No no no, she means which one of us gets the food, the entertainment, and of course the liquor . . .

I’m volunteering for getting the food . . . I can pick later, and sip later, too.

Phuds good, whadda ya got?!?!?!

I think two messages have to be delivered:

1. progressives and other Dems supporting this cynical capitulation of a bill will pay a high political price. they can expect to be primaried by serious contenders and to lose access to grassroots financial support from their base.

2. progressives and other Dems can only expect a restoration of trust in them from the base if they immediately go back to work on a new Senate bill… and pass it. Dropping hc reform once this fails is not an acceptable option.

RJ From HuffPo RIPS Silver To Shreds. And He’s Spot On AFAIC.

And yes, I liked Jon Walker’s piece, also . . .

All the gumbo and cake and cookies you can eat tonight. *s*

I like the messages, they are basic, what most of us feel.

But delivered from WHO, and to WHOM, and HOW?

I was just thinking about the time on the Senate floor, when Candidate Obama may have backed RGJoe up against a wall, and given him a piece of his mind. I used to think I knew how that conversation went, but now I am not so sure.

DIBS ON GUMBO!!!!!

Full on, with sausage, shrimp, fish, chicken, and pork?

Crawdaddies ya can suck the heads right off of?

who is us
to whom are non-conservadem Dem members of both houses
I have no idea how… hoping we can work that out by putting all of our heads togethe

frankly, neither the WH nor the conservadem are audiences anymore. IMO the only way to play this now is for the legislature to put forward an acceptable solution that Obama will have to accept or concede that his first term is a failure. That’ll make it his job to force whatever new compromise results down the throats of the conservadems. We did this backwards the first time around.

Larue, Just for you…!

Ya had me wondering where I heard that quote you made earlier…!

mmm. I’ve only had gumbo once. Maybe have to learn to make it…

I’m listening to that Jenn Grant video for the 3rd time now.

It’s makes me teh sad. Mock me! I found out this week via facebook and email that I know guys from my highschool class who are:

A US atty, who should not be one
A RC Bishop, who should not be one
A Mayor of a town, who should not be one
A VP of a Telco Company, who should not be one
—————–
I just spent hours with 2 others, and we knocked ourselves out making phone calls to people who are disengaged, or hostile to, or don’t care about the Stupak amendment, limiting Women’s rights.
—————–

I don’t mean to be a downer. I am usually a partier, extraordinaire!

But just toiling in the trenches, and just seeing what I see, hearing what I heard, I am really not a happy person right now.

It’s an art Margot.. never turns out exactly the same way twice.

But just toiling in the trenches, and just seeing what I see, hearing what I heard, I am really not a happy person right now.

If you are part of many recent governments here, that is what you hope to do to a populace who looks too hard at how governance works. I think they work to make it unpleasant and disheartening, and that we will eventually become unable to look any more.

And where did you go to highschool – Phillips-Exeter?

Wigwam! What made you that hanHle?
healthcare for all in California after the Terminator exit the state house.
Obama’s gift to the sick…stay well and quit whining.
had my first Bikram yoga class today. Temp was 106 degrees for 1.5 hours. Hot city!
Hi ES and all.

How were the responses in general from folks you called tonight?

1) Get Mz. Hamsher to do a main page editorial.
2) Hope Mz. Hamsher gets on Rachel, Ed, KO.
3) Hope Mz. Hamsher can get on morning or evening or both, MSM news show.
4) WE write stern and livid letters to our own reps and senators.
5) We copy and paste same letters to ALL reps and senators?

I’m not ready to pull the switch Party thing to Independent, as I’m not sure in MY state if that keeps me out of the primaries! And without my power in the primary in CA, to replace a few, I’d be hesitant to give that up yet.

I’ll skip the local calls to talk shows on radio, letters to editors, etc.

But there are a LOT of folks in here that say, THAT’S where it all starts.

Then, attend local party development meetings and gatherings, and getting involved, and pushing for prog and lib voices in city offices, county offices, Boards Of Supes, and such.

But for now?

Let the fuckers know we’re out here, we’re pissed, and there’s a lot of us . . . using email listings for all the dem lists of groups . . . partner with anyone that’s in it with us, to send generic letters with personal sigs to all the emails of all the elected offals.

Generate a million in a day emails to all elected offals, showing anger, and contempt, and drawing a line and issuing a threat coupled with a promise to support depending on their vote pattern.

Bout all I got . . .

I don’t mind the work is unpleasant; work is often unpleasant. I mind that it is disheartening.

The school I refer to is Brophy College Prep. It’s often called “Bellarmine West.” Jebbies. Jesuits.

May I try a bit of Gumbo.ES. Mmmm smell mighty fine. Little more Cajun sauce. Please.

What kind of cake?

I never made that quote of Neil Diamond . . .

I respect him, but can only listen to his first hit.

Teen Aged Angst

Loved that song. Still do. NOT a camp jam fav, sadly.

hehe. I have to confess that I went to one of those…..

I’m am dreadfully sorry to hear this about your calls to CA Women Dem’s.

Is it, like me, that they just don’t WANT telephone intrusions in their homes?

Or is it worse than that?

Gumbo, jambalaya . . . home made it’s what ya got or want.

In restaurants, they DO have to format it rather consistently . . .

So, what did you have and what did you cook!!!!

Wanna know yer gumbo!!!

Obama’s gift to the sick…stay well and quit whining.

707!

The women we got on the phone, and as a group we agreed, were tired. (It was in Central Valley CA that we were calling. )

Worn out. Had other interests, rather than talking to us. Often had limited or no English speaking skills. We weren’t prepared for that.

They wouldn’t go on record to be called by another candidate; in fact they often would not have an opinion as regards Stupak, as it wasn’t even on their radar. And when they did have an opinion, it was always “No Abortion.”

It’s a very strong Hispano-Catholic base in Central Valley CA.

Chocolate chocolate chocolate of course…)

I hear tell them Jesuits know how to edumacate *g*

Didn’t you say you were calling CA? Any particular area?

on edit: nevermind, I’m running behind here..

It’s the one “concern” I have about a large influx from our friends south of the border.

Sounds like you need a new list/zip code… and maybe a better night of the week would help.

I think that’s about it.

we also need to count votes a lot better than we’ve been doing.. and be strategic about who we target and what the message is. this may include identifying specific primary challengers – including possible efforts against “friends” like Rockefeller and Kerry. The only criteria can be whether they are capitulating under WH pressure or not.

RJ From HuffPo RIPS Silver To Shreds. And He’s Spot On AFAIC.

A great article. Thanks.

I agree on both points.

“It’s a very strong Hispano-Catholic base in Central Valley CA.”

You knew yer calling area was that region, and you didn’t know that you’d get that base?

Hispano Catholic owns the Central Valley, and many other parts of CA, as well.

That’s tough country for asking them about Stupak . . . jobs, healthcare, and such? A bit easier, but the Hispanic Community is tightly knit and unless it’s third gen in CA, they don’t give up much of anything.

Very, very protective of themselves and hold dear to their own communities of Spanish language only.

Deal with the schools systems very cautioiusly.

And really not kewl with the trad med system.

You got a tough assignment, hoss . . . and frankly, any Hispanic community, it’s best approached by a group of Hispanic’s, who speak the language, know the culture, and know how to approach them.

The BEST thing FDL or you, or anyone could do, is to recruit folks that are APPROPRIATE for the task at hand, in terms of phone banking. Hispanics for Hispanic regions, Asian’s for Asian populations, all less than 3rd generations.

Ya can’t let a non Hmong call a Hmong phone, and discuss this stuff. Just an illustration.

I wish I could have shared this info with you LONG before you hit the target . . .

I feel yer hurt, don’t be too down . . . had I jumped in and started calling this region, I woulda bailed fast, and said why. I wouldn’t have gotten anywhere with the responders . . . .

I only know this stuff from com studies classes, survey classes, pr courses, and a few years in Spanish Radio, too.

I’m not a PhD in it, just common sense and experiences . . . we move on and do better!

What’s that concern, ES, about them brown folks?

Somebody say chocolate cake?

Howdy ES. Hi y’all.

I hope you folks have solved everything since I left the previous thread.

Agreed.

And as to Rockefeller and Kerry?

I’m so livid as to their recent public speakings and personal stands I could die.

Traitors. Period.

I KNEW this about Rockefeller and his real intent (rich fuck), despite his ‘fight’s’ for the good of his poor constituents.

But Kerry is killin me.

They both gotta go.

Thanks for the comments and replies . .

Rampant Catholicism is my guess.

Welcome, it’s a great read along with Jon Walker’s here, from FDL.
Together, the picture is painted pretty starkly and openly.

No no, not at all. The cultural/religious heritage and what that could mean on views of choice.

One has to deal with the population one has.

If an influz of immigrants become politically active, get citizenship, begin to vote, they will then begin to vote for their OWN candidates!!! And that’s as well as it SHOULD be! It’s representation, it’s America!

Now, anyONE else that don’t take stock of this process, factor it in to their own political desires, they should fail.

So, you should know your people, know THEIR issues, and if running and need their vote? You DAMN WELL BETTER have some of those Hispanics, Asian’s and Hmongs on your staff to advise you and do the outreach for you, if yer a white candidate!!!! Russian’s, Ukranian’s, and more, in Sacto, and CA, also.

BIG ASS MELTING POT!

Know your neighborhoods, know your district, know their cultures, or lose.

This is simple shit . . . .

Know your audience, figger out how to reach them . . .

Course, in Chicago and Illinois, the pols just go to the community leaders and cook up deals. And force is often used.

My bad, that’s the same way in many places, ain’t it . . *G*

Those guys may be thinking party preservation at all costs. Been in DC too long. Term limits.

Know your neighborhoods, know your cultures . . . if ya don’t, ya fail if ya want their support for any thing.

We’re on same page, it seems . . sorry, I misread where you were at . . . you’ve been around, you know cultures, you know what it takes to get along and be with . . . my bad.

Kelly,

Don’t feel too disheartened. You got a pocket of California and a demographic that is uninformed and very conservative generally. And, yes, they are tired and poor. California is split. The coast is more populated and open minded. The people you spoke with are not good overall examples of what you will find generally. Don’t give up. Don’t feel down. And remember-I loves me some Canfield.

Sorry – weirdly my Internet connection crapped out, and I had to reboot. Anyhoo:

I didn’t know WHO or WHERE we were calling until yesterday. And that doesn’t matter either.

What I signed up to do, was to call other humans, and try to make a difference, which we did.

I’m ok that there are and were cultural differences. I really am. I’m very familiar with the Hispanic differences, and it’s really a shame on my part that I couldn’t do the calling in fluent Spanish. I could, half-assed, because I only have half-assed Spanish ability.

That’s not really the point, either.

We called people who are really ok with Blue Dogs. That’s the real point.

We don’t like to think so, but, it’s true. There’s a constituency out there that is totally fine with Blue Dogs.

I’ve always been opposed to term limits because I think voters should be allowed to elect whoever they want, as many times as the want, or at the very least whether or not to impose term limits should be decided by the voters of each state.

After witnessing this HCR clusterfuck though, I think I’d be willing to limit all of them to term limits of six weeks (or less).

somehow, we (the base) need to very quickly become powerful enough to field 10 Ned Lamonts around the country. That thought is exciting but it’s also scary to think of how much work it’ll require.

Wow, didn’t occur to me . . . party affiliation defense, at all costs, like GOP, or you lose the party campaign support.

Wait, we’ve not HEARD the Dem Party or the DNC or DCCC cut off anyone, have we?

*smilessweetly*

Sweet! Lurves me some McCurnin to, yanno

Here ya go, Smiley.

They can be approached if jobs, housing, schooling for kids, protection from crime, legal immigration and further ‘reach out’s’ are discussed and offered.

Including health care . . . . but it’s difficult for a non Hispanic to approach them on those issues.

A successful phone bank would NOT have you trying to reach to those you are not able to reach out to.

Bless ya, no more suggestions from me tonite . . . sorry I offered so many . . . ya did fine with what ya had.

I prefer public campaign finance.

Yep. Lotta work.

I need a job, wonder if I can work this activism into something that pays me . . .

Any thoughts, In Sacto, Pups?

I think I’d be willing to limit all of them to term limits of six weeks (or less).

That’s harsh. I’d give em at least 6 mos.

*G*

A great one! Wasn’t that off of Between The Buttons?

Dang I love them old obscure Stones tracks, like Sittin On A Fence No Music, Sad, and such.

*G*

Amen. Unfortunately, since it would require an act of Congress it’s pretty much a non-starter. If we could start a trend at the states level though…

I have to say this though; in my experience, the 2 generation Hispanic, usually Mexican, households that I know, where it’s a MATRIARCHY, it’s all entirely progressive.

When Hispanic households have women in charge, they march inexorably forward. They’re, erm, PROGRESSIVE.

When it’s the Men running things, and pushing the money around, it’s generally REGRESSIVE. And that’s Hispanic free. I see that a lot in frikking Highlands Ranch, CO, and CO Springs too, with white dudes keeping the women home. I hate that.

And before they are allowed to run they must take a lie detector test and an immorality detector test along with a brain detector test.

Yep, possibly my favorite Stones album, although I like all the early ones. Enjoy the late ’60s to mid ’70s work too but have heard it too many times. Also don’t find it as evocative as that mid ’60s material. Trying to recapture what I felt when I was five, maybe.

One of those will surely trip them up, more likely all three.

Escow got a laugh here –

(Here’s a thought: Get Lieberman’s vote, promise him there’ll be no public option reconciliation bill afterward, then do it anyway! Why not? He broke his word …)

Trouble is, there are only about 3 pols outside the House who actually want a PO. Might add that the prez ain’t one of ‘em.

Howard Dean’s future in the party structure isn’t looking rosy *g*

I have NO education or personal experience to discount that, hoss.

Spot fucking on . . . you get Hispanic women free of the men, they have lots to give and support for all the right reasons . . . I sure hope I’m not stepping on any stereotypes, but that’s what I’ve known for 40 years in CA.

The men, want jobs and RESPECT from others . . . because as much as black people know, or Asian’s know, there IS a huge amount of racism in this country.

Course, this is all simplistic, and there’s MANY other levels beyond this . . . but as a base to work with, it’s a beginning.

Now, how do we progs libs REACH OUT to first and second gen hispanics, russians, asians, and more? What issues do we find they care about?

And how do we DELIVER for them, on those issues?

Bit tent, it needs to deliver.

ANyways, I need to get a better attitude, at least a more fun one for now, particularly since Belch is away.

So I’m evil-ly listening to ABBA – Waterloo! Evil Zwedish Zocializt Verzion!

Kill the bill!

OK :( I just wanna see someone jerk him around.

The Stone’s first 5 projects still keep me in awe, with the R&B covers, and their own personal songwriting coming out.

A few gems like Flowers and Between The Buttons are keepers, as good as anything they ever did.

By Begger’s Banquet and Let It Bleed, it was a new sound and those were incredible.

Not until Exile On Main Street did I want to listen to them again, that was long ago.

I’m fairly kewl with most of their stuff, but as you said, I can’t hear a lot of songs I’ve heard over, and over, and over again and again . . . Honky Tonk, Brown Sugar, Satisfaction, etc.

Maybe McCain would loan you Joe’s collar and leash…

You are just TOO much!

Smooch!

Good plan. Let’s have a raffle!

Beggar’s Banquet and Let It Bleed were great but it’s a little bittersweet because Brian’s contribution was minimal. It was his innovation that helped make Between the Buttons and Flowers so intriguing. The style they settled into later in the decade was a lot easier to sustain, though. If you try to drag a truckload of previously unused instruments into the studio for every album it becomes a gimmick.

Ah, nice to discuss something completely inconsequential. Gonna have to call it a night though. See y’all.

Well it’s time to make like a bear and hibernate.

Good night firedogs.

Adios ES – sleep well

Howard’s been a real wierd one for me.

I’m wanting to be a REAL fan, but the msm beat him so bad about the laughing, it hurt.

Then, since then, he’s been a bit apart from the party machinery, despite the phreakin fact he BUILT the damned machinery!

And then, with Rahm and Obama all but kicking him to the curb, it was obvious the Clintonista’s and ObamaRhama had offed him, in order to take control of the funding mechanism that controls the Dem Party, more so than the DCCC and such.

Dean’s been up and down since Obama got elected, and excluded him, but I’m willing to take a look at him.

I mean, ya think he don’t have some scores to settle to get back in the game?

And as SOME one said, him and MY gal Elizabeth Warren, would look and feel awfully appealing to me.

Franken is just too raw, and new.

Who knows, I’ve been beat down since Nixon ran and won. My first vote, was a loser. Sigh, McGovern, they creamed ya. I’ve lost way more than I’ve won, for my ideals.l

It hurts, burns, and stings. But we vote on.

Big day tomorrow, Bob’s xmas present is scheduled for delivery. :-)

I’d be willing to structure the immorality detector test.

Asss fuckin keyyyyhhhhriiiissstt can’t you do any better than ABBA?

What, dancin round in open backed chaps in front of an open window for all the world to see?

ABBA?

Killin me, just fuckin killiin me . . . at least put on some fuckin Supertramp or shit . . .

Seems like any two stalls with a hole in the wall would suffice…

Nite es. Thanks for the hospitality.

A truck load of dried apples and birdseed?

*G*

That’s sexist *g*

Oh dude, yer on that A Game they talk about . . . .

wow . . . .

Which sex?

Ok, I sense a deficit in the void . . . dey all gone.

Nite Pups, be well, and if it ain’t fun it ain’t worth doing.

Kelly, I’m not so sure, may not understand this . . . it don’t mean doing everything.

*G*

Ya lug. Be good to yer honey . . . . be good to yerself . . .

We all hope on.

Some day, I cook for you and yours . . . you both melt and die.

Really, I mean it . . . lol

Nope, parrot playstand on castors so it can be rolled from room to room. He’s already got an amusement park that’s probably the bird equivalent of a city block. Gotta spoil somebody, though.

Actually, what they do for kicks doesn’t concern me. It’s the hypocrisy when they condemn what others do that is the problem.

Paul
Hackett.

Nice. Have you ever considered getting him an avian playmate?
(I know nothing about birds)

And Christine Cegelis.

Christine Cegelis is the acting Assistant Director of Central Management Services for the State of Illinois and was the 2004 Democratic candidate for the 6th Congressional district of Illinois. She ran in the Democratic primary for the same seat in 2006 and lost to former Army Major Tammy Duckworth. Many Democrats, including Senator Dick Durbin and Congressman Rahm Emanuel supported Duckworth over Cegelis in the 2006 primary by sending fundraising letters on Duckworth’s behalf during the primary.

In 2004, Cegelis received 44.2% of the vote against U.S. Representative Henry Hyde, a sixteen-term incumbent. This was more than any challenger had received since Hyde’s first run for Congress in 1974. In 2005, Hyde announced that he would retire at the end of his next term. Cegelis’ strong showing is seen as largely due to the increasingly diverse demographics of DuPage County.

Absolutely.

He was originally part of a breeding pair before the unscrupulous person responsible realized it wasn’t the path to riches and abandoned them. The female apparently had a gentler disposition and was adopted from the avian rescue before Bob. Poor guy still has some issues and I don’t think he would be happy if he had to share my attention with another bird. Also, he wouldn’t get to spend so much time out of his cage because it really isn’t safe to have more than one bird out unless they’re closely supervised. Not even safe to have one out unsupervised with another bird in the room, they tend to land on the other bird’s cage and lose a toe or something. Different situation if the birds are the same breed and were raised together.

Okay, definitely time to hit the hay. Splendid evening to all.

gotcha. fun chatting. g’nite.