Hi Everyone! Welcome to today’s book salon!

Stuart, Welcome to the Lake.

Lane, Thank you for Hosting today’s Book Salon.

I am here and ready to go.

Happy to, Bev. FDL is one of my favorite spots on the web. I’ll go ahead and kick it off with a question for Stuart.

Stuart, Barney is quite a personality. I know this was one heck of a project to undertake. I’m dying to know….Has Barney read the book and if he has, what was his reaction?

Good afternoon Stuart and Lane and welcome to FDL.

Stuart, I have not had a chance to read your book so forgive me if you answer this in there but what prompted you to do a bio of Barney Frank? (Edit: Of course, he’s such a good topic the surprise is why others haven’t tried to write a bio of him)

I did a joint book event with Barney in early October in Washington, D.C.
When the moderator, David Cohen, asked Barney about huis reaction to the book, Barney replied, “If I had written the book myself, i would have been a little nicer to me.”

Heh. What were the critical parts he was reacting to?

No kidding! I guess that shows that you’ve done a pretty good job of covering the good and the not quite as good, which you indicate in the preface was your goal.

While there have been many profiles on BF in newspapers and magazines over the years, there has never been a full length biogrpahy. In February 2004, when I first broached the subject of writing the book to BF, he asked “Why me?” I said, David McCullough has writen biographies about Harry Truman and John Adams,Walter isaacson has just written a treatise about ben Franklin, and Doris Kearns Goodwin is working on a new bio of Abe Lincoln.
Who is left?” he laughed and said go ahead and ask your first question. That was the first of over 30 hours of interviews with BF over a 5 year period.

Out of everything you’ve come across in five years of research for the book, is there one thing about Barney that surprised you the most?

Barney Frank: The Story of America’s Only Left-Handed, Gay, Jewish, crony capitalist Congressman

You know, to put things in perspective.

i am not sure what he specifically was referring to. He read the first draft which was 900 pages (before it got reduced to 500 pages) quite thoroughly and found several errors in spelling names of Italian restaurants that he frequented when he was a state rep.in Boston.

How does Frank view himself on the political spectrum? Or does he define himself in those terms?

Beneath the gruff exterior and the impatience and rudeness beats the heart of a very caring person. For example, former Boston Globe columnist Tom Oliphant told me that when he suffered a severe aneurism, Barney would have cooked the cheicken soup if he let him. Also, mary Bono told me how hard Barney took Sonny Bono’s death (they were close friends) and how Barney reached out to her when she was elected to Congress to replace Sonny.

Is there a particular story that may encapsulate Barney’s temperament? He can be incredibly generous with his time, brain power and resources, Then not so much. Stuart, anything really surprise you in the writing of this?

Stuart – I’ve been a big fan of Barney’s ever since he came out. I’ve watched him pretty closely as he’s been quite a role model for me, as an out gay man, until the last couple years.

Did he express any surprise or regret during your interviews with him about leaving the Transgender people out of ENDA the last Congress?

Did he place any topics off limits at all?

If it’s not a hagiography (“If I had written the book myself, i would have been a little nicer to me.”), nor, as evidenced by attending the book event; a critique – how would you yourself describe your effort?

edited

Stuart — does your book extend into the financial re-regulation wars? I’m interested in how Frank sees as the basic causes of the crisis and whether he thinks the current makeup of Congress is capable of fixing that?

FYI, Boggs was from LA

Barney is a liberal is proud of it. But he is not a knee-jerk liberal and disagrees with liberals on many issues such as crime. He believes that prison is a good form of crime prevention. While he is passionate about the 1st Amendment, he is no big on the 4th amendment and believes for example, that if the evidence shows that the defendant killed somebody he would let that evidence in on the view that society has a right to be protected against the killer.

Oops. My bad. I confused it with the story about Barney having been in Mississippi as a college student working in the civil rights movement and connected that with the breakfast he had with Congressman Boggs.

Yep and Hale Boggs died in a plane crash in Alaska.

Barney doesn’t suffer fools gladly unless “they happen to be constituents of his within 3 months of an election.” Last week he told a reporter from newsweek, “This interview is over.”

I think the best thing Barney has done for political discourse in America is to refuse to have a conversation with his dining room table. These comments seem genuine, real — and appealing. Does he ever regret his candor?

That is Barney the pragmatist. The legislation would not have passed he House with the inclusion of transgenders. he took an incrementalist approach and believed it was more important to move the legislation to end discrimination in employment against gays and lesbian and then add transgenders at a later time. Recently he hired a leading transgender activist on his Washington staff

Frank has shown himself to be the epitome of the captured politician as Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee. The bill that he just got passed is a joke on derivatives and has a gutted CFPA. Somehow Grayson’s audit the Fed amendment made it in though Frank did try to gut that with an amendment by Watts. Then Bean got her pre-emption amendment allowing weak federal regulation to trump state regulatory efforts.

There was nothing to restructure our system of crony capitalism. Frank may be a great guy from your point of view. From mine, he is all about what is the worst in Washington.

You’re referring to Diego Sanchez. He has been wonderful in helping to bring about an awareness on transgender issues for many House Members. I wish we had a Diego Sanchez over on the Senate side!

His being so unabashedly out of the sexuality closet was bracing, being in the pocket of financiers; – less so.

Once, in the mid-1980′s when a reporter in his district asked him if Ted Kennedy should run for President. Barney who had supported Kennedy in the past for President replied that while Kennedy would be a wonderful President, he was viewed publicly as too liberal to get elected. BF regrets not telling Kennedy that personally before kennedy read that in the newspapers.

Barney is a pragmatist and doesn’t let the good get in the way of the perfect. barney had to make some deals to get the legislation approved in the House. Yes, he would have preferred not to exampt certain businesses such as auto dealers from the jurisdiction of CFPA but he needed the votes from moderate and rural Democrats to pass the legislation.

I understand the whole pragmatism piece, and there’s still no final ENDA.

My question was really; did he express any surprise or regret or anything noteworthy to you about the communities response to dropping the T’s?

Again, BF is not now and has never been beholden to the financiers.
Rather he knows how to count votes and compromised when necessary to secure passage of the bill. He has been compared to Arthur Festenmaker, the fictional governor of Texas, based largely on Senator Lyndon Johnson, in the 1961 book “The Gay Place”. When the governor is asked by an aide whether he would take half-a-loave on an education bill, the governor replies, “A god-damn slice even.”

There is no ENDA because the bill that passed the House in the last Congress was not acted upon in the Senate. Ideologically, it hurt Barney to drop the T’s from the bill, but pragmatically he knew the bill otherwise would not have passed the House.

This is and always will be the comprehensive biography of one of the most extraordinary political figures of our time. As a San Franciscan and longtime admirer of Barney Frank, I can’t help wonder what a Congress with Barney Frank and Harvey Milk in it would have accomplished by now for our community.

Mr Weisberg, you are to be commended for writing such an excellent book. As someone very close to the subject, did you find any parts of the book difficult to write?

(Thanks, Lane, for a great intro, too)

As I say upfront in the book, it is an admiring biography but it tells the story of BF warts and all. It doesn’t skirt any issues or airbrush any events and the story is not always told as Barney might like it.

Stuart, thanks for being here!

Could you tell the story of how Barney came out of the closet?

Stuart, I can’t help but ask this. Mark Foley isn’t mentioned in the book. Given Barney’s own experience coming out and the difficulties he had at the hands of Steven Gobie, what was his reaction to Foley’s situation?

It was difficult to write about the sex scandal in 1989-90 and when I interviewed BF about that event it was painful for him to relive it.
But there was an important lesson to be learned. particularly for politicians and others such as Tiger Woods. Instead of the drip, drip, drip of revelations, BF called a press conference and answered reporters questions for 90 minutes, admitting what what true (that he engaged the services of a prostitute Steve Gobie) but denying what was false (that he knew Gobie was operating a brothel out of BF’s apartment). People such as Bill Clinton should have learned from how BF handled that sex scandal.

BF’s decision to reveal publicly his sexuality was a long time evolving. On page 338 of the book there is a great exchange between BF and Tip O’Neill when he tells Tip he is gay. Tip later told his press secretary Chris Matthews (yes, that Chris Matthews), “We need to be prepared to deal with press inquiries. I think that Barney Frank is gonna come out of the room.”

Well, Tiger isn’t the only one who seems not to have learned that lesson. I don’t think there’s a GOP officeholder who’s followed Barney’s excellent example of scandal management. Unfortunately, very few GOPs seem to have suffered for it: Vitter, Sanford, Ensign all remain in office while Spitzer and McGreevey are not.

Do you know if any politicians who’ve faced scandals subsequent to Barney’s have ever consulted him for advice? Even Bill Clinton could have benefited from the approach he took. Instead, Barney spent lots of time defending Clinton in the Judiciary Committee and on the House floor.

Where I come from ‘Pragmatist’ tends to be used as short hand for political ‘Ho’. Comparing BF to a fictional character in the same breath as LBJ is, frankly, jaw dropping.

While education is hugely important, it is not of the kind that would bring the country to it’s knees. Wall Street is! And from his perch as chairman of the HFSC he has not just failed in his duty to protect the American Public (he could have been raising his voice in indignation – outing the scum), but appears to have instead served as a useful insider for the Financial Industry, imo.

Barney was not supportive of Foley because Foley was hypocritical in his voting record. Also, Foley was trying to seduce teenage-pages.
Interestly, during the Ethics Committee investigation of BF in 1989-90, the most vehement Republican is seeking to censure BF was then Idaho Rep. Larry Craig (yes, the same Larry Craig who as a senator was charged with lewd conduct in a men’s bathroom in the Minneapolis airport). Yet, BF defended Craig’s refusal to resign from the Senate, saying, “It’s one thing to say that someone can’t be trusted to vote without being corrupt. It’s another to say he can’t be trusted to go to the bathroom by himself.”

Most of us of a certain age have had to deal with closeted workplace associates after we’ve come out. I would have liked to know more about how Barney Frank deals with his closeted peers in Congress. I just know there are a lot of interesting anecdotes and I wonder if he could tell them without disclosing names.

I don’t think any of them ever consulted with BF on how to handle things.
Interestly, BF has an apartment on C Street a few doors down from Senator Ensign and his C Street apartment. When the Ensign scandal erupted and all the press set up shop on C Street, BF complained that he couldn’t find a parking spot on the street because of all the press vehicles. I think he said there goes the neighborhood.

Seconded.

Yes, he could have expressed indignation and refused to compromise. He would have gotten a lot of political mileage out of that but there would be no financial reform bill passed which is exactly what the Wall Street and Banking lobbyists want.

Heh! Speaking of Bill Clinton needing to learn from BF’s handling of the situation, I suspect that, judging from the prevalence of GLBT folk in the population, there are a few Republican congressional reps (and at least two Senators) who need to learn that same lesson.

In Minnesota, there’s a bit of unsubstantiated scuttlebutt that an up-and-coming Democrat once tried to stay in the closet, but was told that this wasn’t possible — the DFL wants people to be out of the closet when they run for office, so as to fend off tragedies like the death of John Chenoweth — so this person switched parties.

Stuart thanks so much for being here today, and Lane too.

How does Barney work with Spencer Bachus on Financial Services? I’m curious to know the dynamic between the two. Especially since the Republicans seem to think that Bachus is not a match for Barney, and have been pushing Henserling and Garrett to prominence of late.

Where I come from ‘Pragmatist’ tends to be used as short hand for political ‘Ho’. Comparing BF to a fictional character in the same breath as LBJ is, frankly, jaw dropping.

Not really — there are a lot of people out there, many of them regular FDL commenters, who will never, ever forgive LBJ for what they see as the great act of whoredom that cancelled out all the good he did with his Great Society programs and civil rights advances: Expanding the Vietnam War. (What many of them don’t realize is that in 1968, he had almost got a peace deal struck, but Nixon sent Anna Chan Chennault to Paris to make sure that didn’t happen so that Nixon would win the ’68 election.)

Yes. I had finished the book in June 2008 and sent it to the publisher for editing. When the economic meltdown occurred in the fall of 2008 and BF was at the epicenter, I realized that I had to do something about it. I scrapped and wrote a new chapter 1 which focuses on the financial events of last fall and also significantly revised the last chapter to deal with the re-regulation efforts. It meant a lot more work for me but it makes the book more topical and a better book.

No, he answered every question that I asked with candor even though many of the questions were personal and some were embarassing. BF is basically a private person and deosn’t like to talk about himself. When BF retires he will write books about public policy but not about himself. This book is as close to a memoir as there is likely to be.

A Gay women being elected Mayor in Houston I wonder how Barney is taking the news? Is Texas going Purple or Blue? Did any Gay Activists see this coming?

See #36

Barney is a pragmatist and doesn’t let the good get in the way of the perfect.

He apparently doesn’t have problems with the downright awful either. Sorry but your justification is beyond lame.

Annise Parker has been elected citywide in Houston six times, I believe. This should make it her 7th time. It’s been in the works for a long time and her election as Mayor is incredibly exciting. Many have paved the way to make it possible and she continues in the work that has come before her, including work done by Barney.

“financial reform”

When I start seeing mortgages being “marked to market” on a widespread basis (for starters) I’ll believe there has been “financial reform.” So far, I’ve seen essentially nothing that would indicate that truly meaningful reform (i.e. something that would actually benefit the overall economy) is in the offing.

What is Rep. Frank’s position on holding real hearings (a new Pecora Commission. Open timeline, full subpoena power, special prosecutors – The Works.)? Again, what we’ve seen so far is grandstanding. Anything less is unacceptable and will accomplish nothing.

Can you give us a hint?

Welcome to the politburo.

My primary criticism of your book is the lost opportunity to explain in more detail Barney’s growth in the area of transgender inclusion in our coalition. Like a lot of people, I think Barney resisted inclusion of transgenders, not just in ENDA but as part of the gay and lesbian fight. In the brief paragraph (401-402) you devote to the ENDA fight, Barney likens the T battle to the L&G battle of thirty-five years ago: “It’s too freaky to people.”

Until not too long ago, Barney used the unfortunate construction that a person “has transgender” which many of us recognize tends to pathologize our transgender friends as diseased. Now, though, he has hired Diego and stands ready to fight for an inclusive ENDA.

That journey would have been an important contribution to your book, as many Americans are making it along with Barney and most are probably somewhere behind him. Did you consider expanding your coverage of this topic, or did you feel it was too arcane for a general audience?

There is a great story on pages 266-269 of the book about a trip to Israel and Egypt that Barney took with a few other members of Congress. Then Rep (and now Senator) Tom Carper met a stewardess on the flight to Cairo and wanted to take her to the New Year’s Eve party at the hotel but she didn’t want to abandon her friend, another stewardess, and Carper tried to set up the friend with BF. I won’t spoil the ending.

Barney works well with Bachus. But then again BF has always worked well with the ranking GOP member going back to his days as chairman of the Employment and Housing subcommittee on the House Government Operations Committee whether it be liberal John McKernan of Maine or conservative Howard Nielson of Utah. The problem as I discuss in chapter 1 is that the GOP in the House often isn’t interested in compromise or passing legislation. When the Financial Services Comm was chaired by Republican Mike Oxley, BF worked well with him and as a result had more influence on legislation than most ranking Democrats at the time

I remember when you were having a hard time supporting Barney when he wasn’t including transgenders. What do you think has made a difference in his stance?

Thanks for asking that in a better and more thorough way than I attempted above.

In June 2008, when I agreed with the publisher on the book title, I wanted to make sure that the title “BF – The Story of America’s Only Left-handed, Gay, Jewish Congressman” would still be true when the book was published this fall. I did some research. 5 gay men ran for Congress in 2008 but none were expected to win. Jared Polis, however, ran a very good campaign in Colorado and spent a million or two of his own money and upset the president of the Colorado state Senate in the Democratic primary. It was a safe Democratic seat and it was clear that he would be elected in November. I did some research and son-of-a-gun, he is Jewish. I was left with left-handed or right handed and couldn’t find that information anywhere. So I contacted Jared Polis and told him why I needed to know. He told me that I was safe with that title because he writes with his right hand, is a switch-hitter in baseball and plays tennis with his left hand. About a week later i received an e-mail from Jared Polis – “I have been thinking a lot about you book and if it sells well you might want to write a second book, “Jared Polis – The Story of America’s Only Amibidextrous Gay, Jewish Congressman.”

Barney is also pretty hard on gay activist marches for rights because they hardly ever include any lobbying of elected officials, but do provide lots of snippets for the sensationalists who put together the evening news coverage.

Do you think Barney understands that there are several prongs to getting rights — that there wasn’t much lobbying in MLK’s March on Washington, either, but the spectacle of so many people peacefully assembling had an effect on Congress nonetheless? And that seeing so many people assembled demanding rights in public makes an impact on the lonely teen confused about sexuality who feels there’s no one else like him or her?

Yes, but let us not forget that he withdrew his nomination and died a broken man, on account of that fateful decision.

The below is tied to the global financial reality, tightly linked to BF position of authority as chairman of HFSC.

From the womb of Fascism: Fascism 2.0: (I believe, still on topic.)
Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi Attack At Milan Rally Condemned As “Act Of Terrorism”
“Populist anger is starting to awake all over the world, as the G-20′s actions continue favoring only the “aristocratic” banker class. We hope Berlusconi’s mistresses will still find him just as attractive even with a black eye, bleeding lips and busted teeth.” http://www.zerohedge.com/article/italian-prime-minister-berlusconi-attacked-rally-milan )

Maybe “Jared Polis – The Story of America’s Only Amibidextrous Gay switch-hitter, Jewish Congressman.” would be better. Still a Gay Mayor in Houston I am in shock.
And so I’m sure are all the GOP’s pollsters maybe Barney will campaign for a few pols in Texas next election?
I’m sure Bush swallowed more than a pretzel when he read the news this morning.

Since so many of these questions would like an answer from Barney, do you think he would be willing to appear here himself?

Two years ago when Robert Novak was promoting his memoir “Prince of Darkness” he was asked how long it took him to write the book. He said that it took him 18 months to write the book and 24 months to reduce it from 1100 pages to 600 pages. My initial draft was over 900 pages and I had to basically cut it in half. In order to write about the economic meltdown in the fall of 2008 I had to cut other material to make space for it. I devoted a great deal of space to BF’s years in the state legislature because I found that period of his life the most fascinating because it was the unfettered BF. ENDA is mentioned in the book because it is a good example, I believe of BF’s pragmatism. Another is the chapter dealing with his role on gays in the military in 1993 and what happened when BF offered a compromise proposal and was attached by both sides.

As we come to the end of this Book Salon, any last questions?

Stuart, Thank you for stopping by the Lake and spending the afternoon with us discussing your new book and Barney Frank.

Lane, Thank you very much for Hosting this Book Salon.

Everyone, if you haven’t bought this book yet, here is a link.

Thanks all.

Well said, Teddy. My guess is that Barney’s background puts him pretty squarely in the opinion that progress doesn’t happen in the streets. He originally planned to settle into the comfort of academic life as a tenured professor at Harvard. Debating the issues of the day over the breakfast table in Winthrop House is a long way from storming the streets demanding your rights. Just as the many different facets of our movement fail to see the value of the other facets, I suspect that Barney does not have a full appreciation for the grassroots activism. But maybe we can prove our worth to him and others in the coming year!

I was asked a similar question by the Miami Herald last month and responded as follows:
As you may recall, Frank took the same position when hundreds of thousands of gays and lesbians participated in the march on Washington in April 1993 instead of lobbying members of Congress on gays in the military. In Frank’s view, marches on Washington have no political impact on elected officials, and for that reason they are a waste of time.
“Twenty-five years ago, our need was for visibility. We didn’t know who each other were. The world didn’t know we were here. Once you get behind the simple desire for visibility, political marches do you zero good. Politicians simply are not influenced by them,” Frank said. In Frank’s view, American society functions politically according to who gets organized and who gets out the vote and who defends themselves. He sees the National Rifle Association (NRA) and the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP) as two groups who are very effective in influencing government and lobbying members of Congress. “The NRA doesn’t have marches. They don’t have demonstrations. They don’t shoot their guns in the air. It’s just good, straight democracy. The AARP doesn’t have shuffles. They just write to us and call us and tell us that they’re there,” he said. I would have hoped that gay activists would have learned that lesson after the gays in the military lobbying debacle in 1993.

Thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us here at FDL, Stuart. I really enjoyed the book and learned a great deal about Barney that helps me to understand him much better. I will continue to recommend it to others.

Also thanks to the FDL community for engaging in a great discussion!!

Barney is old school and does not use a computer. Two years ago he gave in staff demands and started using a cell phone (which he continually loses).

Thank you Lane for doing such as fine job as host.

Thanks for a great chat, and for this book. I learned a lot about this incredibly brilliant and talented lawmaker, and some things about the person too. I hope people will buy and read this book, because Barney’s gonna be in our lives a long time and will only become more influential. We all need to understand what makes him tick, and this book is the best key to that.

Thank you!

;)) It took me a long time as well. Thanks for the answer and for being here.

Indeed, Teddy. Exactly my point as well. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday!

Thank you Mr Weisberg.

who is the right-handed, gay, jew in congress?