Soon that cry will go out over the land, as it does on most Monday nights during football season. We watch the spectacle of the regular season through the playoffs and on to the Super Bowl. We see pro football players dating super models, doing commercials, and being themselves in cameos on TV shows.
But there is a dark side we rarely see and that’s what Blood Equity shows, the effects when the cheering stops. There have been periodic attempts at this. Sometimes a former player such as Peter Gent, writes a couple of novels “blowing the lid off.” Sometimes we might catch a news story about an Andre Waters, a Mike Webster, or a John Mackey. We nod our heads in sympathy, commenting about what a shame it is that “this” has happened.
For myself, I grew up watching Jim Brown run for Cleveland (Note: Jim Brown is the greatest running back of all time and one of the greatest athletes of all time – this is NOT subject to discussion.) I watched the first Super Bowl (although it was not identified as such). I watched the Jets beat the Colts in Super Bowl III. I’ve watched most all of the Super Bowls over these years, cheering for and against the players appearing in Blood Equity.
I actually started wondering just what I was cheering for about fifteen or so years ago during a Pro Football Hall of Fame induction ceremony. There was Chris Berman introducing all of the Hall of Fame members in attendance when I realized that many (most) of these men were crippled and could barely walk, some of them my own age. From Blood Equity, it appears I am not alone with the questioning as we see Mike Webster’s son describe how the NFL and the Hall of Fame made sure his father was cleaned up and presentable for his Hall of Fame induction. And then let him go back to the hell he was living in due to the concussions he had received over the years.
The NFL is obviously complicit with the problems (with average careers of 3.5 years, players feel the pressure to stay on the field). We hear Tony Dorsett describing how he was told that he had a broken back “but that it’s alright, it’s OK for you to play.” We hear Darryl Johnston describing the “stingers” he had running from his neck to his hands, his surgery to correct the problem and the return of the problem in his first game back, prompting his retirement. We’ve all heard announcers at all levels proclaiming “Ah, he just got his bell rung there but he’s a football player so he’ll shake it off and be back shortly.”
As bad as the NFL itself has been, it is the NFL Player’s Association, the player’s own union, that is the focus of Blood Equity. In 1993, through collective bargaining, the NFLPA became responsible for all the aspects of the retirement plans, disability claims, and overall administration. Yet only the active players have a vote on anything. The late Gene Upshaw is quoted as saying he didn’t work for the retired players but only for the active players who paid his salary. Yet, as one of the interviewees points out, the preamble to the NFLPA Constitution describes the debt owed to the earlier players. In fact, at the Players Associations own site the following is the response to the FAQ “What does the NFLPA do?”:
The NFL Players Association is a union devoted to helping players past, present and future. …
Are there changes being made? Well, just a couple of weeks ago, the NY Times reports on a Fox announcement from their NFL show that there is going to be a change in how concussions are handled. This is not actually that much of a surprise as the NFL has long been the most PR conscious of the professional sports and with players such as Al Toon, Wayne Chrebet, Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Ted Johnson, and Merril Hoge all having had to retire due to concussions over the last few years, this is a minimum first step. But it still does not address the other problems the retired and disabled players are facing.
Please join me in the comments and welcome our guests, Joe Ruggerio and Rico McClinton, Producers of Blood Equity as well as Associate Producer, William J. MacDonald as we discuss the film and the fall out from the NFL and the Players Association as well as further steps by the retirees. As always, please stay on topic and take off topic comments and discussions back to earlier threads.



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Good evening and welcome to FireDogLake Rico, Joe, and Bill.
I’ll just get right to it and ask, Have you had any feedback from the current players to Blood Equity?
Have you heard anything from the new director of the NFL PA?
Bill, Joe, Rico – Welcome to the Lake.
joe is here
I think probably Roman knows more of the current players than some of the other producers
And a few points for folks to consider during the discussion:
NFL players vest in their retirement plan at 3 years. The average NFL career is 3.4 years.
For every Roman Phifer who plays for 15 years, there are 5 “no-names” who play a year.
Average life expectancy for a man in the US is 77. Life expectancy for former pro-football players is 55.
Hi, this story has completely turned me off football, but thank you fror telling the story. The facts are the facts.
Did you have trouble getting players to speak up and out?
Welcome to Firedoglake – glad you could join us!
There has been a few strides made by the new executive but no actions as of yet.
wow, I had no idea.
Yeah, I was hoping he’d be able to be here but thought he might have passed any contact or feedback from current players over to everyone.
As I state in the intro, the NFL has long been the most PR conscious of the pro sports. After all, Pete Rozelle was a PR man long before he became the Commissioner
Are the retired players group trying to meet with him or letting him set the time and place?
As someone who never liked football and always felt many of the consequences shown in this film were obvious long ago. I found it to be a brutal portrayal of American businessman.. and the state of divide and conquer in all our approach to health care.
I sincerely hope many children see this movie. Thank you for making it.
Even scarier:
No. We have not heard from the rep at the NFL PA but we have gotten GREAT responses from some retired players and their families. Everyone seems very encouraged that we made this film.
-Rico
Everyone wants to talk about the subject. an example is the interview with Tony Dorsett. We did not schedule to meet with him we just kind of ran into him while interviewing mel renfro. We showed him some of the other interviews we had done and he said lets do it. these guys are warriors and they are very loyal to there teamates
I’d say that might be statistically significant /s
Walter Payton. . .end of discussion.
nothing substantial
You see a lot of it in the movie with John Mackey not able to recognize his own wedding pictures or the stories of Johnny U not able to raise his throwing arm.
These guys get badly beaten up over their careers for our “entertainment.”
You’re welcome. We are hoping to educate younger people as well.
!!
just wow.
you said it! He was a great man and representative of the nfl
yards per carry. ‘Nuff Said.
For any or all of our guests, how did this project come about? I’m guessing that your training with Roman maybe started the ball Rico?
There is no shortage of examples of players badly disabled but Earl Campbell stands out for me.
We had no problems getting anyone to speak out. Everyone wanted to tell their stories in order to help other players. Other players are like family.
I think seeing him crippled at the Hall of Fame was one of the catalyst points for me in recognizing the damage as he’s a couple years younger than me or so.
Webster’s problems were more a result of steroids than concussions, no?
Earl Campbell is a great example. No one ran harder that Earl and today Earl can barely walk.
Yes. That’s how it all began. When he went to a retired players meeting and heard the horror stories. Joe came on board shortly after. Bill brought his experience and guided us to the finish line.
Sweetness! But his death had nothing directly to do with playing football, did it?
The scope of the problem, the statistics or the ratio of retired players and those who have received any form of aid is truly staggering.
Nope,primary sclerosing cholangitis.
Brown was NOT a multi sport guy, but he was still one of the best athletes ever, yes. And yes, at SYRACUSE, he was All American in Lacrosse, that’s not pro.
Jim Thorpe. Pro OR Olympic, I don’t care.
A couple of decathalon dudes, Olympic only.
Wilt Chamberlain was one of the greatest, two sports, too. Both Pro.
Bo Jackson (albeit a meteor). Easily top 5 ever.
NOT Deion, not Mikey.
And although they were only one sport guys, both did Olympic and Pro with great success, and shook the world
1) Joe Louis
2) Muhammed Ali.
In any ranking of greatest, outside of Greek Olympians, 4 minute miler Jim Ryan, Babe Ruth and heroes of such stature I hafta still go with Ali, as the greatest ever. For his success, for his impact on all aspects of life.
Ali. Was. The. Greatest.
There was no evidence of Mike Webster taking steroids. You might be thinking of Lyle Alzado
Has anyone ever looked at whether Upshaw treated his former teammates in the same way he treated former competitors?
As bad as his actions seemed to me, I think it would be even worse if he treated his teammates that way.
Steroids do not cause brain damage or dementia. Sources say the head slapping allowed at the time likely contributed to the brain damage.
Under any formula the players association, in my view, has not fulfilled its mandate…
Yeah, the movie showed it as the head slaps causing multiple concussions (or at least contributing to the problem)
Oh lord, DaKine, honored guests, my humblest apology to all and FDL and Pups.
I jumped in forgetting this was a Guest Movie post.
So, so sorry . . . the topic of football and the violence ensued transcends any thoughts of others greatness.
Again, so sorry.
You forgot Teddy Ballgame
a total disgrace.
Me either, that’s mind boggling DK’s #5 . . . wow.
Seeing the various news articles recently about how the NFL is changing their procedures for concussions along with the Congressional testimony by folks like Merril Hoge are helping get the news out.
I recall seeing some articles in the last year on John Mackey’s situation. In fact, the articles may have been in conjunction with reporting of the movie being made.
How long did y’all spend with the Mackeys?
We actually spoke to one of his team mates prior to filming at Cheesecake Factory. Rod Martin said he was great team mate but a horrible rep.
Webster I am not trying to be argumentative and I think what you are doing is great.
Gene had the power and the knowledge to do something for these guys and he did not. Why? Simply he had a very kush job and making a move towards fixing it would have shown fault and no one wants to show there other side that they are responsible. The NFL owners point the finger at the NFLPA and the NFLPA points the figure at the owners. Its sad that no one can say enough is enough lets help these guys together.
Turf wars, Cleveland and ChiTown . . . you kids . . . ;-)
That is ultimately the goal of the film
How are you getting the words out to younger people? I do remember the feeling of being in my teens and twenties and thinking I was invincible and I’d wager you get a lot of “but it won’t happen to me, I’m different”
That may be true but steroid use and dementia are two different things. If that’s the case, we’d better start watching pro bodybuilders… a lot of them are sure to have dementia soon enough. Contact me with your stats!!!
Thank you very much! We were all first time film makers with the exception of Bill. We saw an injustice here and Roman Rico and I put our money where our mouths were and set out to get these players stories told.
I went to Walter’s last game in Soldier Field, still have a great poster. And at that game, speaking of steroids, the Boz intercepted a pass for a td as the Seahawks bear the Bears, Also recall that Walter did not get a td in the Superbowl win but the Fridge did.
Haven’t had a chance to watch the movie yet, but I was one of the first females to try out for my HS Football team (regular NYC Champs St. Francis Prep) and I was one of the founding members of the NYState Athletic Trainers Association, I have to say that a WHOLE LOT OF BLAME goes to the physical/medical qualifications rules.
It does not take a rocket scientist to make a flat rule about no game or hitting practices for X number of days after a player gets his bell rung.
It takes not a lot of brains to set firm –and therefore equal among all teams– rules about % of swelling reduction and or % of strength return after sprain or muscle tear.
As long as all teams have to abide by these same standards, the playing field remains level.
The doctors and athletic trainers have much guilt on their souls/
You mean the ones that die of heart attacks or the one’s that kill themselves?
Yeah. The NFL is the only team sport where the contracts are basically a con job and the figures given should never be trusted. And the interview with Dorsett was chilling that they’d encourage him to play with broken vertebrate
We’d like to get it into libraries and schools.
speaking of head trauma…
Nope, he’s merely the greatest batsman that ever lived and had an arm and good legs.
He’s my biggest hero, at the plate. He CRUSHED the ball. Every time.
Babe, Gehrig, DiMag, The Mick, Sey Hey, Hammerin Hank . . . Ty Cobb, even Roberto Clemente who I argue is the best all around ballplayer that ever played the game and I love dearly to this day . . .
Teddy Ballgame was the best, ever.
And perhaps, in top ten. Top 5? Hard to boot out others to make him fit . . You?
The whole system is rather chilling, can anyone contemplate asking performers in other media to risk the same and receive so little on retirement?
Thats just it…no one thinks that they are going to get dementia. Its a silent killer. Its not like twisting your ankle. you dont ever know its happening.
That’s why the NFL is at least trying to make the doctors who call the concussion over independent of the team. The names of players who retired due to concussions that I have in the intro is based on the names that came to me while I was watching the film. There are far far more than I’ve listed
We totally agree. We are happy about the NFL ruling on outside medical evaluations for players.
Welcome to FDL.
I thought the movie was really important–particularly at a time when the League tries to clean up its act with concussions (with dubious success, given the Warner and Big Ben post-concussion controversies).
I’ve got a bunch of questions, but first, I’m wondering if the guys who worked on the film are also doing outreach to active players to warn them to balance their life with their career.
I played 6 years of rugby (two club) and then 6 years ultimate–and I have some of the same problems (back, neck, knees, and I played through at least one concussion). And I know that there was almost nothing to get me off the field through those problems. One of the women I played with died on the field of the head injury (after I retired). It’s WAY harder, I’m sure, for guys who are also trying to bank enough of a career to live off of, and who have the whole world watching their play.
The post-play stuff needs to be fixed, particularly for those early generation players, but so too do we need some leadership to try to get younger athletes to balance their sense of indestructability in their 20s.
I can’t enjoy the game anymore knowing the long-term damage done to the players. Is there really any way for the game to safely continue?
Gene had to stare down Rozelle, too . . . and Rozelle owned the sport and the men who were a part of it.
Rozelle brought the NFL forward, but you can’t discount he was many times against the players 100% in his quest.
Yeah, the “series of one-year contracts” rather than a true multi-year contract.
We see the guys who today get the big bucks but in reality, they’re not getting that much after taxes, agent fees, etc.
And they’re then expected to go into sedentary businesses and work like they haven’t spent the last ten to twenty years beating each other up.
On the ESPN pregame show tonight they played the tape of Matt Stafford from the Lions on the game where he dislocated his shoulder. He was wearing a wire and you hear him moaning in pain and then fight his way back onto the field to throw the winning TD. Ditka had a woody about how Stafford loved the game.
What a project, thanks gents for all you did with this . . . good on yas.
We spent the day with the Mackey family. We weren’t able to show all we shot but it was very eye opening.
No. And generally the other ‘media’ performers are not played out in tax-payer subsidized arenas so owners/broadcasters can make obscene profits either.
I hope your film is a total hit and parents see it and think 2x, 3x, 10x before encouraging their kids down any pro-sport road, especially football.
And so much of the permanent brain trauma isn’t manifest until many years, almost always past the lapse of any effective medical insurance.
Saw it all on tv . . . seems like ages ago . . . . sigh.
There is a direct line between this stuff and the problems in the military where troops won’t get help because it will reflect poorly on them a soldiers and then they kill themselves or others.
Thank you Larue!
and that is exacerbated by the inherent machismo in football at all levels.
I haven’t paid that much attention but I know I’ve heard at least one announcer of a college game this year saying that so and so just got his bell rung but he’ll be back in a few minutes.
Football is bad for your health. Whoda thunk?
Joe, Rico and Roman did an amazing job in producing what I consider a very very well made documentary, the thanks really goes to them…
Yep.
I’ve found it quite easy to avoid most of those type of shows just because of the glorification of the hits. I watched the Darryl Stingley hit live as well as Theisman getting his leg broken. No need to see that multiple itmes.
That’s just it. A lot of these ex-players do not want to come forward because of their machismo. They don’t want to be looked at like a wimp or a cry baby. They would rather suffer in silence then ask for help.
From eating right to building up their body armor thru training , I am always encouraging young players to take care of their bodies and not take their health for granted.
Just once huh?
Yeah, seeing Johnston talk about that surprised me a little bit It’s actually an improvement over years ago where the player was just pretty much cut lose and left totally on his own.
Although something more than lip-service needs to be paid. I had to laugh at Ditka’s statement that with a war chest of $1.2B in their “strike fund” no way were the players going to strike.
And the results are?
That I noticed. You know it was said multiple times at all levels, and pretty much like I said it in the intro.
How bout just using some of the interest on the “strike fund” to finance insurance premiums for the retirees?
Strange as it may seem, high school football, college football, and even the Super Bowl might not exist today if President Theodore Roosevelt had not taken a hand in preserving the game. As originally played on college campuses, the game was extremely rough, including slugging, gang tackling and unsportsmanlike behavior. Quite a number of players died (18 in just the year 1905 alone, with 20 times fewer players than there are today). Interest in becoming a football player was declining!
This is a link to a longer piece about violence in football.
Would current players be the slightest bit interested?
Just the matter of fact way that Dorsett described the broken back, Johnston the stingers and Toby Wright on his knee problems was stunning. They know now what they’ve done but couldn’t see it or chose to ignore the toll for the moment of glory.
Will you be producing any follow-ups? (Seems a shame not to be able to use that footage)
Any chance your movie will air on ESPN — or any other network?
It’s amazing how much the guys are willing to risk a severe injury in order not to let their team mates down.
I also did have two gripes with the movie, with regards to unions generally.
First, I THINK someone said that in other industries, no one at Ford would be screwed so much with injuries acquired on the job. But in GM and Chrysler, we are seeing the same kind of deal where the union picks up health care, and most of the people who retired (in their 40s, after a full career), are at great risk of losing their health insurance. And there are plenty of union-represented mine workers, for example, that risk their lives with little protection.
And then there was the moment where Ditka said, “There’s not going to be another strike.” But under Goodell, League/Player relations have gone to hell (including with yesterday’s announcement that they’re getting rid of revenue sharing next year).
None of that invalidates what the film says more generally. But aside from the extraordinary damage players experience and their short careers, these problems are endemic to corporations in this day and age (as I think Dorsett or someone said). I don’t expect this kind of generalizing of the very real plight of football retirees from someone like Ditka. But the film really does point to the plight of workers in this day and age when corporations put profits ahead of human decency.
I think they will, they’ll retire someday too.
Yeah, as a minimum.
Is the movie going into a standard release to theaters? Any film festivals such as Sundance on the horizon?
When they interview amputees at Walter Reed they often say they want to get back with their buddies.
Spot fuckin on, not to mention the pressure to man up and shut up about it.
Yer a hoss.
Some guys listen. They get more of a mind body connection so they are more aware if something is wrong. An example is when Shawne Merriman hurt his knee last year, he was going to play and I called to leave him a message encouraging him not to. Not that I am the reason he didn’t play but he made the right choice taking the rest of the season off.
Yeah, I thought Ditka wanted to get in a fight with Gene Upshaw.
I thought Joe DeLamielleure wanted to sit down with Upshaw and get Upshaw to explain things as to why it was being done this way.
And I thought Harry Carson would have liked to sit down with Upshaw to see if they could actually communicate about anything
We’re currently contemplating a limited theatrical release in cities with a combination of large professional and collegiate teams in the vicinity, in part, to impart the message to younger people per someone else’s inquiry earlier
Not sure. Some networks were a little hesitant to show something that might have been negatively viewed by the NFL.
We see that with Darryl Johnston and his description of his surgery and then his retirement.
I think you are spot on! Its not just the NFL. Our film is just an example of how corporate greed affects the people on the front line. And how no one is there to speak up for them. Not even there union
Some were. A year ago some current players donated a game check to the cause.
I’m pretty removed from this subject, but I get the impression that today is far more important than tomorrow for pro sports.
It’s a thin line. What I think is important about this work is that it may help to educate people who will be better prepared to make their decision. Football is not going anywhere and eCAHN hit it on the head, “football is dangerous” who knew?
Right, but there’s a very big difference between that and someone really taking an active role in encouraging active players not to sacrifice the rest of their lives to stay in a game. Maybe it’ll come as people like Rotty and Warner decide to take a second week off to nurse a concussion (though Warner admitted that he still has light sensitivity, and played anyway). But it’d go a long way to bringing sanity to sports in general if the role models we all watch were willing to sit when injured.
Obviously, the teams don’t want that to happen. But that’s just a factor of the same corporate dynamics going on.
No surprise, major league sports, like the NFL, are quite the juggernaut — not to mention the ad income the networks receive broadcasting the games.
Ditka on Palin. . .that’s why I love Sarah Palin
Oh blah blah blah, multimillion dollar players can’t speak for themselves. World’s smallest violin.
I got the impression that that was a lot of the deal with Mike Webster. Beyond the steroid use, beyond the concussions, just the idea of needing help and not being in control seems to scare a lot of these guys
now now, make sure you know what you are talking about
The median salary in the NFL in 2009 is roughly $770,000. In 2008 it was about $720,000. The Steelers have the highest median salary at $1.1 million, the Packers the lowest at $440,000. The Redskins have the highest payroll at $123 million. The Giants have the lowest at $76 million.
Might be the first time we agree.
Multi million dollar actors can’t they use their union, witness the Screen Actors Strike…
I am not talking about the multimillion dollar guys. I am talking about the 10k a year guys when the league started
Oh, so we don’t agree after all. So relieved.
that is NOT so!
It’s not just pro sports. It’s sports in general. Most competitive team athletes would do just what the guys in the film do all the time, even when they’re not getting paid.
Athletes are so physically gifted they believe they’re indestructible. The money makes it worse (because your livelihood depends on doing the same thing only more so and your boss has a big incentive to play down your injuries). But it’s a normal part of sports.
And your solution is….
My local HS did EEGs for all the football players at the beginning of two a day practices last summer. This way if a kid got clocked they had a baseline to compare his brain function against. If a public HS can do this, I think a big dollar outfit like the NFL can do it, too.
ding
Someone should make a film, oh they did, which humilates the union into doing the right thing…
Raven and eCHAN.. I’m laughing out loud..)
You’re 22 years old. You just “signed” your “Multi (5) year contract” for “$30M”
How much money is that guy going to have at the end of the 5 years?
I’d wager less than $2M and probably less than $1M
You need to read the Harlen Coben series.
The new helmets that players, especially new players, are wearing — which are larger and not popular with some vets, are they an improvement in the area of concussions…all things considered?
Well, then laugh at eCAHN not eCHAN.
Indeed you have made such a movie.
It’s a topic that has been swept under the NFL rugs quite often over the years.
Some of the stories really are directly out of a Peter Gent novel except they’re someone’s life instead of a fantasy.
And ten years after retirement his vision starts blurring…
Oh, and there’s always the early onset Altzeimers among footballers. Surely a small price to pay for frittering away your life and your fortune.
Probably Less!
We made the movie as a general broadcast of what we see needs to change. My personal active role outside producing this project is to be a friend and a voice of reason to the guys I personally know that are currently playing the game. I love sports and so does my son. I doubt very much he will decide to opt out of sports because of my film. What I do hope is that he will grow up with a healthy balance between competitiveness and respect for his life.
One suggestion is to take the face mask off to discourage using the helmet as a weapon.
Yeah, I figured I’d be an optimist on that one.
Let me preface what I’m about to say by confessing that I loathe football. Well, make that professional football. I have enjoyed watching college football because it’s as different from the professional game as college hockey is from professional hockey.
There has been a succession of “bread and circuses” in this country, all designed to be the “bright, shiny objects” that distract us from paying attention to what’s important and actually affects our lives. Today’s examples would be unending wars and a shattered health care delivery system. I’m old enough to remember going to the movies as a child when they would literally pass an empty popcorn bucket up and down the rows asking people to contribute to the old actors’ home because the Hollywood powers turfed them out to die when they couldn’t earn them any more money.
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose…
Great job. I spent 20 years in parks and rec trying to inject some sanity in kids sports. . .then I decided to do something else.
I was surfing the TV last week and came across a show where Larry Conley was interviewing Pat Riley (both members of Rupp’s Runts so they have meaning to a Kentuckian).
Riley talked about having been drafted by the Dallas Cowboys and the Dallas Chapparals (ABA). He said he spoke with Tom Landry, Gil Brandt and Tex Schram and wanted to be a quarterback as he’d been in school. Since Dallas had some fair quarterbacks in the day (Meredith, Morton, and Staubach about out of the Navy), they declined his desire.
Riley said it was probably a good thing since he’d gotten by with only one hip replacement.
I think Ditka’s had multple hip and shoulder replacements hasn’t he?
There’s an obsession with sports that runs deep. I imagine you dealt with PARENTS willing to risk it all in your 20 years!
Oh, perhaps my pedigree is relevant. I was my HS football mascot, the Bennett Tiger (full body suit). Today, some 45+ years later, I can’t think of a more boring way to spend my time. Let me think. Read a good book, or watch football.
I have that obsession, here in Athens, GA it’s pretty easy to feed. I loved the kids but the parents killed it for me.
The bad thing is how it is mandatory for all the anti-sports people to participate and watch.
What do you mean? That people who dislike sports can’t opt out? Why not?
Oh, just TRY and make me watch professional football! Na. Gonna. Happen.
And that’s part of my troubles with the NFL. I am a life long sports fan of all sorts. While recognizing the innate violence of people running into each other at full speed, there should be some way to support the folks who have gone before.
And it’s not really going to be better, even with the current emphasis on concussions. As has been mentioned here and in the movie, the arthritis and such often doesn’t show until after the coverage period. And yet we hear noise about expanding the regular season once again. Any guesses on when the NFL will say enough? From 12 game regular seasons to 16 possibly to 18?
No it isn’t. I couldn’t tell you the colors of my local high schools team.. or whether or not college football season is still in play, much less who’s ahead or the name of one coach. Haven’t known these things for 15 or more years.
It’s a blessing.
It was snark. I live in a college town where football is king but run in artsy circles where people moan and bitch constantly about it. Tough shit says I.
I know bro, that was my point.
Oh really. It’s the violence that is the attraction..
No? Next thing you’ll tell me is that people look at playboy for the women.
Joe, Rico, and Bill, are there any ways that folks out here can be in touch with the retired players group (if they so desire).
We’ve discussed the Mackeys and some of the others, but there’s obviously a whole bunch of folks that are in the shadows on this topic and need help
My good people, thank you all for having me. I must get off to a class I take. Peace.
Well, I think football is a Darwin Award.
Well, from time to time back in the 60s I used to read the occasional interview and I’m equipped with lady parts… (which would seem to be a pre-existing condition according to Mr.
StupakStupid…)Money is the reason why the expansion to 18 games is still prevalent, and is actually leaning more to happening than not happening.
2 exhibition games, with the season starting possibly before the college football season in August.
Now a second “bye” would be given to all teams for what has been discussed about this, but it would be a disastrous move of overkill, but perfect to maximize more profits.
Or possibly to let the NFL and the Players Association know that WE know how they abuse people and throw them out.
As PR conscious as the league is, seems the last thing they’d want is actions that would get further scrutiny by congressional camera hogs…
And I would defend, to the death, your right to think that.
Thank you for your time this evening.
They can contact the Gridiron Greats, Mike Ditka’s foundation
Truly, with all these economists it’s rare to have a topic I know something about!
thank you and Happy Holidays!
Gridiron Greats Assistance Fund
707 Skokie Blvd., Suite #600
Northbrook, IL 60062
email: info at gridirongreats dot org
Web site
Don’t need ur defense, but appreciate it, as insincere as it is.
Yeah, it’s topic most anyone from the midwest/south of a certain age is going to know something about and have an opinion or two to go along with the knowledge
The hell it is.
AHA! We do have the moral equivalent of the popcorn bucket passed up and down the theater aisles when I was a kid. Disgraceful for both being necessary.
My old man was a football coach.
I won’t ask if he was “old school” for of course he was. That’s all we had back in the day.
When I was growing up the high school coach was just one step down from the almighty.
In the movie, some of the retired players were talking about how their election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame came at the point where they were down to nothing.
What it meant was they could now make a small amount of cash on their names.
But then you hear Joe Delamiellure talking about playing Arena football even after he’d been named to the Hall of Fame, just to get debts paid.
Well, after 4 years in the Pacific he was sorta ornry! Funny, when we moved to California in 57 he would watch the Japanese kids to tell when he was pushing the players too hard. If they started to fall out he knew he was.
Folks, I do most highly recommend the movie Blood Equity.
It tells some heartbreaking stories that the NFL will not care for, so all the more reason for this information to get out.
Did you see my #137? Absolutely NOTHING has changed about how we treat the people who provide our bread and circuses, other than they may be paid somewhat better while they can still perform. They’re still turfed out to take care of themselves, after having been told for years that they were special. Am I surprised by Tiger Woods’ behavior? Nope. He’s still able to perform (well, only a tiny pun intended there…). He’s probably also smart enough to have saved and invested, which makes him an aberration.
Thank you gentleman.
Great discussion, dakine, and very nice intro, thanks.
I did see it and I do agree. But that’s why we had this movie for discussion so folks can know what happens when the cameras are off and the players are old.
ty :})
Sheesh Marion, there are tons of people out there who can’t find a job or provide for their families. I suggest that you are talking about a tiny number of people and, as you said, “they may be paid”!
Nice work on the movie, but I’ll take a pass on the hankies.
I feel pretty much the same way about the injuries of pro football players as I did about Christpher Reeves. Yeah, it totally sucked for him, and is a tragedy for his family, but he broke his fucking neck SHOW-JUMPING HORSES! How many people in the world would gladly suffer such a tragedy to have lived a life like that for even a day? Same thing applies to football players. By the time they’re pro-eligible, they know what they’re getting into, and so do the fans who pay for their gladiator shows.
Now, where’s the film about the poor bastards who DIDN’T get a full ride to college, all the trim they could handle, and the utter adulation of complete strangers?
My best friend was stabbed nearly to death driving a cab to pay his tuition. He had a decent grades and SAT scores, and would have made a fine scientist or engineer. Now he can barely lift his left arm, let alone hold a job or get health insurance. Meanwhile a shitheaded, steroid-abusing, borderline illiterate linebacker from our HS football team got a full ride to Wake Forest, and when he failed to make the NFL, a football “booster” got him a nice, white collar job in North Carolina. Tell me about injustice. Please?
Oh, Raven… I think you know me better than that. I have been known to use hyperbole in the past, have I not?!
I am so with you…..have been known to shop for groceries during “big” games b/c they’re, well, empty.
I confess to periodically getting oddly interested in a particular game, like the just past UT-Neb.
peas
life’s a motherfucker isn’t it?
I think back to Mike Webster, time and again.
When he died, he was pretty much a drooling idiot from the head hits. “Iron Mike” they called him. He played every game for years.
When he played, there were finer points of the defensive players’ art. Stuff like, “ringing the bell”: this was a head slap aimed at landing over the ear hole of the offensive lineman’s helmet. Headbutting was permitted, as was leading with the head when tackling.
Helmets are still inadequate, but they are better than they were back then.
He went through what was estimated to be some 25,000 automobile accidents in his career.
When Webster died, his family went to the NFLPA. What they wound up getting were years of litigation over whether the NFLPA had any obligation to do – or pay – anything. ERISA and all that.
All the while, Upshaw and his friends were getting munificent salaries and denying coverage to their former players.
I love football. I just wish the owners would love it as much.
Yep, like being a gladiator….only it’s in a Jerry Jones stadium instead of the colliseum….lethal and legal.