It should be bizarre, but is in fact grimly typical, how the whole phony “climate-gate-scandal” has played out so far. Hundreds of emails between climate scientists were hacked — stolen — from servers at East Anglia University. The stolen materials were then misrepresented, distorted, and lied about, and the scientists involved abused, insulted, and accused of everything from deliberate fraud to acting as the willing dupes of the shadowy liberal-fascist “global warming industry.”
The bizarre part is that the only people being asked to Seriously Question Their Motives and Practices, or who are facing scrutiny for what they did, are the climate scientists who just got robbed, even though there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that they have actually done anything clearly unethical. (The worst bit is the suggestion as to deleting emails, something that everyone concedes is pretty bad and nobody is defending, though there’s no proof anything was ever deleted.) More important, nothing in all this nonsense even approaches a challenge to the science that shows the reality of global climate change, at least to a reasonable person.
But what about the “skeptics,” the “critics,’ the “deniers”? Because, after all, if there’s no proof the scientists lied in these emails, there is no shortage whatsoever of high-minded “skeptics” willing to let fly preposterous whoppers about these emails. See and viz. and ibid, etc. and so forth (and the links up there in the first paragraph). These people are shocked, shocked at how the “skeptics” are not Taken Seriously, and then they spout the most preposterous misleading tripe. Can we ponder their motives?
Take for instance NewsBustard’s Noel Sheppard, whose Qualifications to Pontificate on Science are that he is a credulous loon (yes, I’m linking myself, but that one was pretty damn funny). Here is Sheppard solemnly declaring that “Climate Gate” means Al Gore should lose his Academy Reward, something that obviously makes no sense whatsoever, so he has to throw in some hooey about how Gore lied about polar bears.
“A new scientific study shows that for the first time they’re finding polar bears that have actually drowned swimming long distances – up to sixty miles – to find the ice,” Gore says in the movie.
John Berlau, author of a new book on the environmental movement entitled “Eco-Freaks,” claims the polar bear scene alone should disqualify Gore’s film from consideration for best documentary, because it departs from reality.
Berlau noted that while the movie’s companion book says the bears were drowning in “significant numbers,” the study Gore is most likely referring to only found four polar bear carcasses in the sea off Alaska.
That episode took place after a severe storm, he noted, but Gore makes no reference to a storm during the film’s animated polar bear sequence.
Of course, this is all my bum:
The new study, carried out in part of the Beaufort Sea, shows that between 1986 and 2005 just 4% of the bears spotted off the north coast of Alaska were swimming in open waters. Not a single drowning had been documented in the area.
However, last September, when the ice cap had retreated a record 160 miles north of Alaska, 51 bears were spotted, of which 20% were seen in the open sea, swimming as far as 60 miles off shore.
The researchers returned to the vicinity a few days later after a fierce storm and found four dead bears floating in the water. “We estimate that of the order of 40 bears may have been swimming and that many of those probably drowned as a result of rough seas caused by high winds,” said the report.
Keep this delightful bit of horseshit (bearshit?) in mind as you observe the comically prissy Sheppard squeal & pearl-clutch when a scientist calls a dishonest denialist hack an “asshole” on Live Teevee, mewling thusly: “Isn’t it fascinating to see how quickly folks that complain about character assassination jump to using it themselves when they’re losing a debate?”
It’s not “character assassination” to call someone acting like an asshole an asshole — like if I were to call Sheppard an asshole, for instance, that would be fair comment.
Besides that, it’s hard to see what the wingnuts are complaining about – to the BBC, this little exchange was just an Honest Presentation of the Two Sides of the Controversy, the sort of Valuable Public Service we here in the States can count on NPR performing for us.
Meh. Anyhow the lesson here is clearly that scientists need to be much nicer in how they respond to thugs. Right before they drown, our grandkids will thank us for being ever so sensible in this crucial regard.



90 Comments












Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Good morning Thers. Linking yourself…is that like dating yourself?
Some food for thought for the deniers:
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/04-8
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/02-5
Thanks for this Thers.
I’ve been wondering for some time now just how mockery of non scientist climate deniers in any way constitutes evidence that global warming is a “hoax and fraud” (to quote one of the FDL denier commenters)
Sen Inhofe (Idiot-OK) has been at the Lake?
I’m still trying to figure out how the e-mails being hacked requires Gore to turn in his Oscar award – it wasn’t a science award, it was a film award.
(If they really want all film producers to go by those standards, there wouldn’t be much of a film industry left. And someone should point them at ‘Path to 9/11′ as a good bad example of lying conservative filmmakers.)
This has been a hoax and a scam for the past 30 years. This fraud picked up pace in the 90′s when the flat-earthers started getting more money to propagate their religious ideology onto the rest of us. Whatever happened to the Zero-Population flat-earthers? Now that Illegal Aliens come here illegally and poop out 3-6 Anchor Babies and allowed to colonize, we hear not a word from the flat-earthers. It’s all okay now? You guys are phony and we RealDemocrats and Independents know it!!!! the fact is you idealogue cultists hate America, Americans, and America’s industrial complex….
Your apostle in the video admitted it!!!!
It was a poorly produced movie. Was worst than watching a PBS documentary or CBS expose…
It saves a lot of time in foreplay … *g*
Namaste SD !
What’s truly scary is, how many ReThugs are of that mindset, yet they managed to rule America for so many years …
Looks like it’s time for Troll Bingo.
Namaste, Petro!
Yeah. Debate in the Senate has just started for the day so we get to see and hear some of the prime players on the Rethug side do what they do best – lie.
The first half of the video has been omitted from this post. If you folks think we can’t see the slant from the globalist MSM chuckleheads like this so-called moderator, you folks are nuts!!!
And some of the complaints are that the ‘tone’ of the e-mails is prickly. Imagine that…prickly scientists.
Must be rough being so miserable.
For the right wing conservatives and their pee-in-their-pants reactionaries, if the facts are not on their side they simply make them up to fit their argument.
On the other hand, when the facts are so obviously true that it makes their counter arguments look stupid they do what any good political grifter would do – they challenge the other guys facts as being false.
To paraphrase Christopher Hitchens – What is tendered without proof can be dismissed without proof…
As for the whole global warming debate – Even though the facts are not on their side of the argument, I kinda hope these right-wing nut jobs are right given the corrective actions taken to date to turn it around…
I keep saying this, but I’d love to see Exxon-Mobil’s emails…
oh and Thers!
Book review at Kos. Storms of my Grandchildren.
check it out – I may already have a bingo
anchor babies like your leader?
Why does this article and the commentary make no sense to me?
I was thinkin’ the same thing. Nice to have one give us such a wealth of trollisms in so few lines.
Been nice chattin’ with ya. Gotta go get some ribs to BBQ for the football games today. That’s what real American men do…
Don’t forget yer K-Y Jelly.
OMG. Manly.
Well, that was my big laugh for the day.
Nice Bingo, dakine! So true.
Gosh, I was just whipping up some quiche for the ballet performance today.
LOL
“What an Ass-Hole” I agree.
Sorta related. WMNF interviewed Russ Baker about his book Family of Secrets on Tuesday. Click on the calendar in the Archive box and select 1 Dec.
ROFLMAO
As the grandson of illegal immigrants turn off your power in your house now! Chances are my Dad designed the structure of the power plant powering your house. Just what have you done to deserve a place besides being born?
the theft from the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU) was not the work of amateur climate sceptics but a sophisticated and well-funded attempt to destroy public confidence in the science of man-made climate change.
He said the fact that the e-mails were first uploaded to a sceptic website from a computer in Russia was an indication that the culprit was paid.
“It’s very common for hackers in Russia to be paid for their services.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/copenhagen/article6946281.ece
—————
On Thursday , Moscow recorded the warmest Dec. day ever 50 F.
There’s a liberal-fascist “global warming industry”?
Is it a cottage industry? I’d work for them./s
Hey Thers!
I was worried you hadn’t survived the game yesterday. Hopefully, Crosstimber made it through McCoy’s last
minutesecond brain infarction.Glenn Smith is upstairs.
Bravo, Prof. Watson.
Judging from the tone of the video, I would have considered a remark about Noel’s mother’s leash, but something that spews hot gases and waste is OK too.
I figured we were dead meat by the half. Out coached and out played. I’d hate to think of the amount of film the Tide watched last week.
Why is the story “Scientists Lie about Warming” when it ought to be “Scientists robbed for political purposes?” Oh, right, because the corporate media is the propaganda arm of the same organizations that stole the e-mails, or that benefit from the theft of the e-mails.
The counterfactual conservatives (a phrase I intend to use exclusively in reference to all Republicans from now on) are in fine form on this. Regardless of what the emails say, nothing negates the long term trend line in global temperatures or the record of ice cores from the Arctic and Antarctic, which conclusively demonstrate global warming exists, is continuing and getting worse (any asshat who can’t distinguish a data point from a trend line needs to immediately STFU).
So typical of them really. Deny the existence of very real problems like global warming, peak oil, the rising tide of violent rightwing extremists, while pushing imaginary or trivial ones like Muslim terrorists in the US, death panels, and Social Security is going to bankrupt the nation.
How about Cheveron’s… Now that would be interesting…
Lack of intelligence??
Ya musta failed science in grade school as that is all the teaching ya need to understand that Climate Change is happening and it is accelerating… There is empirical proof ya know..
yeah and they beat their wives also…./s
My question has always been “Why would the scientists lie about global warming.” They have absolutely nothing to gain from it. Nothing.
So very true! Most Scientist are non political(I do know a few PHD’s) and really care about the research they do and that their work can be validated by any other Scientist around the world and not for any Political Glory!!
And also most Scientist are Progressive in their worldly views…
In 99.9% of cases one needs to follow the money. Out of the potential of a major climate disaster in the making, politicians come up with ways to fix things in a manner that their pay masters make a mint. Instead of rallying to cap emissions, to keep the shit in the earth in the first place (another example: expand the war effort to end it), they give us Cap and Trade. Wall street is thrilled, polluters are thrilled, autism is becoming an epidemic; follow the money.
No matter what your opinion is about the “man made climate change” issue, I would imagine that all of us should at least be able to pause, in light of this new scandal, and ask questions. In science, we cannot PROVE anything; we can only DISPROVE things, and accept a given hypothesis as “truth” only after it has withstood the test of time. An example of this is Evolution. Hundreds of years have passed, and no one has come up with a more complete explanation as to how life came to be, nor have they been able to disprove/discredit it completely (unless you believe that Genesis is a scientific explanation).
Yet, people do have a RIGHT to refuse to believe in Evolution. While I shake my head in disbelief, I will always defend these people’s right to believe in whatever they want. Same applies to this man-made CC issue. We should respect the people on both sides, and we should NEVER be afraid to ask questions and seek answers. Simply calling man-made CC “as real as gravity” or an “indisputable fact” and then attacking those who do not share those views, is neither scientific nor progressive.
It is absolutely amazing that anyone can claim the evidence that numbers were faked and data was manipulated to arrive at a pre-determined conclusion is no big deal.
And the defense against these charges: The data show global warming occurs. Yes, that is right. People are pointing to the same exact data that has been manipulated as evidence that global warming is occuring and using it to rebut those raising questions about the emails. Talk about circular logic.
Furthermore, this is science, not religion. The whole point of science is to arrive at conclusions after examining data, not to throw out inconvenient data and then defend your actions by stating “well the science is settled”.
One thing that no one seems to ask is, why is this even a “federal” issue. Given the vast regional disagreement on this issue (West and East Coast versus Midwest and South, for example), we could virtually eliminate all the bickering if individual States would decide on their own environmental regulations. With this current federal approach, people in CA will say it doesn’t go far enough, while people in MO or OH will say it’s oppressive and will raise energy prices. But if individual States do this themselves, everyone can then live under regulations which are more in line with their own personal beliefs about man-made climate change.
I just don’t understand why there should even be a fight over this. :S
You are so correct!! I’m just baffled that many who would call themselves open-minded are showing the opposite by demonizing anyone who would simply ask questions regarding this issue. Unbelievable.
“The bizarre part is that the only people being asked to Seriously Question Their Motives and Practices, or who are facing scrutiny for what they did, are the climate scientists who just got robbed, even though there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that they have actually done anything clearly unethical.”
No evidence they did anything unethical? Are you fucking insane? Threatening to use violence against dissenting scientists is not unethical? Throwing away data that you obtained because people were submitting FOIA requests to see it is not unethical? Pressuring scientific journals to not publish conflicting data is not unethical? Throwing out data points that show cooling trends is not unethical? Explicitly stating that you altered data to influence the passage of global warming legislation in a particular country is not unethical? Manipulating tree ring data so that you can produce a “hockey stick” graph is not unethical (and this one is the most egregious as individuals are pointing to other graphs, by this same researcher, as evidence the data is not maninpulated?
If the stuff I listed above, all of which are contained in those “unethical” emails doesn’t qualify as a breech in ethics, then what the fuck does?
Furthermore, the calls from the left to investigate the hacking should be ignored and laughed at until they also call for the investigation of the NY Times for publishing classified data on various anti-terrorism programs. Until then, [modnote: verbotten when directed at other commenters] about the criminality of hacked emails exposing fraudulent behavior.
I’m amazed by all the people who think they know more about climate change than the scientists who are studying it.
And all of those people seem to think it’s invented. And they insist on displaying their ignorance everywhere.
Now, will you trolls go out and take some science classes, so you have some understanding of the subjects you’re busily preaching to us about?
Breaking into people’s offices, or posing as technicians, in order to steal
e-mails and data isn’t also illegal?
Go fly a kite, please. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
This is what needs to stop. Name calling. If someone has a different point of view on a given issue, that makes them a troll???
Is it not possible for people to have a civil discussion about issues without attacking each other? Both sides accuse scientists on the other side of being “not real scientists”. Can anyone prove that either camp of scientists is more/less scientific than the other?
What is clear now is that we must now examine exactly what these findings mean, and whether the desire to spend all of that money (which we don’t have, by the way) on this CC issue will really provide any worthwhile benefit. Or, is this whole thing yet another attempt by government elites to control the peasants and dictate our lifestyles, by telling us what cars we can drive, what light bulbs to use, etc?
Now, we all know that immigrants, undocumented or not, and LBGTQ persons, and persons of color have no value according to these bozos. I call them bozos to be polite, not that they deserve to be responded to with politeness. I’d like to see how their standards of living would decline if it were possible to remove all contributions of the afore-mentioned groups from this society.
There aren’t two camps of scientists. There’s almost all scientists on one side and a very tiny, well-funded group of carbon shills on the other.
There’s this stuff we learned about in grade school — oh, back in the days before the internet, when the earth was still cooling — it’s called AIR.
Air is composed of multiple gases and particulate, and comprises a blanket of sorts around the entire earth.
Now, as I understand it from my grade school science class, this blanket of air doesn’t stop at any political borders, like cities’ limits, state boundaries, arbitrarily determined regions or countries, nor is it even confined to continents.
Why, I was even taught way back in the olden days before we had personal computers that volcanic particulate moves through this blanket of gases and can affect weather trends.
Do you think it’s at all possible that pollutants could move through that blanket, too, and affect the weather? or permeate the air others breathe far away from a given region?
Do you think maybe that cloud of pollutants hanging over places like Shanghai and readily visible from outer space might move around the planet through that blanket of air?
(Jeebus. I’m beginning to rethink the American education system if this is the best we can produce in the way of trolls.)
Yes, I understand that. What I was referring to here is the widespread disparity between the States, as far as how people feel regarding this specific issue of “man made” climate change. For example, you might say that there is broad consensus along the heavily urban centers of the California coast, NYC, and Chicago, that more environmental regulation is required. But… when you survey the opinions among the people of Texas, Oklahoma, West Virginia, or Tennessee, you might find the exact opposite. Just throwing out some examples.
Federal government represents the many States, not just the large cities, so I was simply pointing out that such a bill would pretty much have to be a compromise (in other words, something that Senators from many regions of the country would have to agree upon) which would thus be disagreeable to people on both sides of this issue. Why should the middle of the country have to do what California wants, and vice versa? It just doesn’t make any sense.
Oh OK! Meanwhile actual criminal activity is fine with you trolls, I guess. Good to know.
See here:
These deniers sound pretty desperate to find something, anything they can take and distort. Why? What’s in it for them? Hmm.
Scientists are going to have to stand up and have a throw down with these guys. Science is proud of its “aloof” status from the rest of the world, but that’s going to go very badly for the entire planet if they keep it up.
Thanks for that video. My God LMAO!
That was priceless. The asshole wouldn’t shut up, and just like the rest of the right wingers must believe if you say it often enough and loud enough it must be true. Then the end. “What an asshole.” HAHAH LOVE IT! Indeed, a great big, ugly asshole. LOL
Typical Leftist Race-mongering. California is in the shitter because of these folks and the [Edited by moderator. Do not call other commenters names] like you who support them…
Explain to us working Union Member Americans how flooding the labor market with Illegal Aliens ensures my job and wage security?
There is no BOTH sides. If there were two sides, that would mean that maybe 30-70% would agree or disagree. Not so here. Over 90% of the world’s scientists agree. The ones that don’t are the fringe. As much as you would like to equate the two sides, they don’t exist. Over 90% of scientists believe the earth is millions of years old, and just because a few say it’s only 6,000 doesn’t make “two sides to an argument.” I could say the sky is red, and that doesn’t make it a valid second argument, because, you know, the sky isn’t red. And the world isn’t 6,000 years old. And the temperature on the earth is warming, in part due to man’s activities. Facts, not opinions on which to take sides.
Wow, teh stooopid is out in force today!!!
Great! Don’t forget it’s Sunday, you should get paid overtime for today!
This has nothing to do with science, but everything to do with politics…..and we know it!!!!
OFG this is for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOdoabbLBcE
When I was in school we were taught about the vital role of phlogiston in combustion.
If you, realdemocrat, really unnerstood this stuff, you’d stop worrying about job security and invest your money in my dephlogistonating software. Then you’ll be rich enough to hire a whole bunch of interplanetary Aliens
Spoken like a true Liberal Elitist.
Well, back to the games…
I wasn’t moving my lips.
Make sure you admonish the Far-Leftists on here to do the same. Need to be fair and balanced, right?
Only Faux Noise has to claim “fair and balanced.” It allows them to get their lies out there.
Most of San Francisco’s particulate pollution comes from China.
Right, there is no evidence they dis anything unethical — as my links show.
What YOU are doing right now though, is unethical, namely, lying about the content of the emails.
A right winger being unethical???
I’m shocked. Shocked I say!!
If only that was true.
I can tell you that people at the sparsely populated northern end of Michigan (with a population density of four persons per square mile) are just as concerned about pollution and climate change as their urban brethren at the southernmost end (with a population density of 3300 people per square mile), five degrees latitude in separation apart.
They may have different expressions of concern because their experiences are different; the group in the northernmost region is worried about pollution from commercial mining and the effect of climate change on tourism, while the other is worried about their water supply being commercialized and shipped out of state. But they are both very worried.
There’s a far better predictor as to which people aren’t worried about climate change; they tend to come from areas served by limited diversity in commercial media and from areas with school districts where rigor in science is not demanded by the local employers.
Yup. My spouse is there now, arrived Sunday evening local time for meetings in Shanghai.
When I asked him how things were, the first thing he said was, “Smoggy – very, very smoggy.”
It’s so thick in that satellite snapshot that it looks like mud, can’t even see topographical contours.
While not as bad here, pollution still travels widely. Northwestern Michigan, for example, has problems with ozone in spite of its relatively rural space; it’s because the prevailing winds blow pollutants from Chicago along the shoreline of Lake Michigan for hundreds of miles.
First of all, simply for the fact that these people are pushing climategate, you should question it: Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, FOX “news”, Breitbart.
Also, and I think this is pretty huge: why is there NO focus whatsoever by the media on the actual hackers and people breaking into the scientists’ offices? This sounds like a complete setup. Maybe Exxon-Mobil is behind it.
Apparently, it’s legal to hack emails and break into scientists’ offices…if it promotes a rightwing and Big Oil LIE!
Well, I respect your right to have your own opinion on this issue, but I would challenge your assertion that 90% of the scientists share your viewpoint. Look at the emails that were uncovered: many of these scientists who believe in “man-made” climate change actually called for silencing their peers (read: scientists) who hold a different view.
True scientists are those who constantly ask questions and seek discussion, not people who simply cling to a belief at all costs, and claim that the evidence exists (even after it was revealed that the data behind this “evidence” was manipulated). The very fact that many of these “scientists” are fiercely resisting all attempts at having an open discussion should raise some red flags for you.
When you cling to a specific ideology and believe that your view is the only side of the argument or that there aren’t two sides, then you are displaying what can only be described as a form of religious zealotry… the absolute refusal to accept that there may be truth anywhere else, or that other people should be free to live without having your views forced upon them through legislation.
Not sure where you are, but out here there is a growing consensus that this “man made” climate change issue is in fact, a covert attempt by Washington elites to exert even more control and power over people in “flyover” country, and not about protecting the environment.
Why aren’t the hackers and the people breaking into scientists’ offices being pursued, talked about by the law, or talked about in the media. Are we all stupid??? This is so obvious!
Exxon-Mobil and the right and the Republicans have been trying to discredit Global Warming for decades. This is actually nothing new. It’s another attempt to discredit Global Warming.
The rightwing “War on Science” continues! There’s no such thing as EVOLUTION either!!!
Because the crime committed by those scientists (manipulating data, deleting emails, silencing those with other viewpoints) was/is potentially devastating to the people by enabling disastrous and unconstitutional legislation to be passed at the federal level. The crime committed by the hackers, by contrast, actually benefits the people by providing them with crucial information and exposing the lies.
Yes, there can be no privacy and no crime if one acts in the interest of the people.
So, upstateNYerMdwst and macaquerman, you can break the law if you think someone else is breaking the law. What country do you live in? Somalia?
That’s called being a vigilante. I’m sure, from the sounds of it, you’re not for vigilantism of exposing something you agree with. I know your types.
And what crime did they commit?
http://mediamatters.org/research/200912040052
Funny, there haven’t been any charges of crimes. Maybe that’s because there were no crimes committed?
Answer this question: why were there no charges against the scientists?
Here’s the answer: because there were no crimes. You can squawk all you want and repeat Rush Limbaugh and the creationists, but when you hit the REAL world: there were no charges. That’s what always happens when your fantasy world meets reality.
That’s the problem, though- politics affects science. Science will have to fight, politically, for its right to keep doing science. It’ll have to enter the arena itself, or have people who don’t know science demolishing them politically.
As they say, don’t argue with a moron- he’ll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience!
There can never be a reason to expose something that I agree with, because everything I agree with is good and right and always was.
If I think someone else is breaking the law, of course they are. They always must have been.
Furthermore, you remark borders on thoughtcrime.
No, none of the scientists in those emails called for anything of the sort. You have zero idea what you’re talking about. Please read the post and click the links.