Or as Quqnoos, an Afghan news service, reported:
A senior US official Friday said “the US has no intention of leaving Afghanistan in the near future, certainly not in 2011”
Gen James Jones, US President Barack Obama’s national security advisor, said what Mr Obama actually said was: “After 18 months, our troops will begin to come home.”
“It’s very important to use the right words where this is concerned,” he told journalists. “The words ‘US troops will leave in 2011’ are inaccurate.”
I’m not sure how this synchs with the “insider” account in the New York Times portraying Obama as insisting on a timeline for an exit from Afghanistan, but it certainly seems to back up Col Pat Lang’s analysis that Obama got “rolled.”
Petraeus, McChrystal and Mullen must be very pleased with themselves today. This generation of flag officers has now reached a level of power in which they completely dominated this policy decision making process and got everything that they wanted.
The numbers? The Army general staff is already “fudging” the numbers. It is easy to hold people in various “paper” categories in which they seem to not be “in country” but really are there. There will be a lot more of that. In the end the actual number of Army soldiers in Afghanistan will come close to McChrystal’s original request.
The withdrawal? The generals reckon that they can “manage” that decision as they did this one.
Basically, the generals and their allies “rolled” Obama on this one. They reckon that they can do it again, because he is weak willed and they are not.
Tom Englehardt, who has more about the numbers “fudging” sums it all up when he writes:
You may not think so, but on Tuesday night from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, in his first prime-time presidential address to the nation, Barack Obama surrendered. It may not have looked like that: there were no surrender documents; he wasn’t on the deck of the USS Missouri; he never bowed his head. Still, from today on, think of him not as the commander-in-chief, but as the commanded-in-chief.
Meanwhile, many Afghans are not cheering the coming surge. Anand Gopal reports that the very “local leaders” the surge is designed to engage see the surge itself as a big problem :
Many tribal heads and local leaders from the Pashtun south and east — the heartland of the Taliban insurgency — have gone further, calling for troop withdrawals. “I don’t think we will be able to solve our problems with military force,” said Muhammad Qasim, a tribal elder from the southern province of Kandahar. “We can solve them by providing jobs and development and by using local leaders to negotiate with the Taliban.”
Such views could pose a challenge to the U.S., which would require the support of the Pashtun population in order to succeed. “People are starting to view the Americans as occupiers, and in that context more troops would be risky,” said Hanif Shah Hosseini, a lawmaker from Khost province.
While McChrystal claims that more US troops will provide the needed aid to local leaders to reduce violence, they don’t agree:
Officials cite night raids, civilian casualties and lack of development as reasons why the standing of U.S. troops has lowered in some Afghans’ eyes. When the U.S. forces enter an area, the levels of violence generally increase, causing anger and dissatisfaction among the local population…
“If new troops come and are stationed in civilian areas, when they draw Taliban attacks civilians will end up being killed,” said Gulbadshah Majidi, a lawmaker and close associate of Mr. Karzai. “This will only increase the distance between Afghans and their government.”…
“If we get more troops, there will be more bloodshed,” said Noor Muhammad, a shopkeeper. “Only Afghans themselves can solve this problem.”can solve this problem.”
And along the Kandahar road we hear:
Afghans wanting to travel between the capital and the second city must run a gauntlet of robbers, Taliban ambushes and jumpy American convoys, which are heavily armed and ready to open fire.
… Karim, a lanky Pashtun from Ghazni – with only one name, like many Afghans – would rather not risk his life driving the highway for £75 a month, but he has little choice if he wants to feed his eight children…
The 42-year-old’s coach had been held up by robbers who went through his passengers’ pockets at gunpoint, and searched by Taliban patrols looking for government workers.
But he reserved his greatest anger for the American convoys that were supposed to be securing the road. The six-hour drive to Kandahar often took four times as long because his bus became stuck behind lumbering mine-proof lorries and was frequently pulled to the side of the road for searches.
Any attempt to overtake US troops or get too close was answered by a rock flung by a turret gunner at his windscreen, or by a shot ricocheting off the road.
“The main trouble is with the Americans,” he said. “If they have come to help us they are most welcome, but if they are just here to hold us up and cause trouble, we are not happy.”
He was enthusiastically supported by Ismatullah, another driver who pointed out a bullet hole in his windscreen covered by a sticker. “Unfortunately there is fighting between the Americans and the Taliban along the road,” he said.
“The Americans don’t care if you are a civilian or a driver, they just shoot. If an American gets hurt then they shoot everyone.”
How horribly familiar.



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Good Intentions?
“Col Pat Lang’s analysis that Obama got “rolled.””
Bull; – This is Obama!
How many friends have you won over by throwing rocks or shooting bullets at them?
Lawrence Wilkerson was interviewed on The Real News Network on 2 Dec, the day after Obama gave his escalation speech. Really worth watching. It’s in 2 parts.
I bet you that the rock throwing people, are the ones being shoot at with bullets! So, this equivalence is suspect.
Thanks for the link!
Robert Fisk tells very similar stories about a bus driver he befriended who carried his dispatches into Pakistan and Fisk’s own rides on the bus. At the time the Afghans were fighting the Soviets.
Welcome to the graveyard of empires, Obama.
How long do you all think it will be before Pakistan completely falls apart?
Out of curiosity, how much time have you served in the military?
So many things wrong with this decision, as Obama will discover too late to salvage his reputation.
Deploying the military around the world to protect “American interests” is not the same as defending American territory, and Obama still hasn’t figured out that the Pentagon has gradually, over decades, transformed its role of territorial defense into a slightly more sophisticated version of the French Foreign Legion.
He’ll regret not understanding that fundamental truth.
I found both Tom Englehardt and Pat Lang’s reactions to the speech very sad but very valuable
And, why do you ask?
“Surreal” and other inventive descriptions seem to dance around that Obama announced a policy he doesn’t mean, support or intend to implement, but for which he wanted political credit as a wise “centrist”. Crap. He lied. We berated the media for avoiding that description with Bush’s many lies. We should apply the same standard to Barry Obama.
His July 2011 “withdrawal” is not a firm date or a withdrawal. It’s a date far enough in the future that he can claim changed circumstances as a rationale for doing whatever he thinks of doing at the time. He just kicked the can down the road like Bush and Cheney.
Well, it had started coming apart before Bhutto’s assassination. I think Tariq Ali is the go to guy on Pakistan.
because you don’t know shit from shinola
Those who have some experience in armed conflict have a different perspective than keyboard warriors.
We have yet to ask for any proof whatsoever from Obama per his claims of plots to attack us from inside Pakistan.
Less proof than we pretended to require from Bushco.
Every time I think I understand Pakistan, I realize I don’t.
and while we are running around citing Pat Lang, tell me which group you are in?
“The following groups will be disappointed in the first Obama administration and in this order:
1- The far Left.
2- Many Black Americans
3- Arabs and Muslims
4- Characters like Chris Matthews.
pl”
Here’s the link to that post of Col Lang’s – http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2009/12/my-post-on-4-november-2008.html
I read him every day
I’m certain that you are quite correct, but you are not saying that most women should butt out of the conversation about war, do you daa’ling?
Here’s Ali’s site. Editor with The New Left Review but seems not be very active with it lately.
See what you think of a 45 page article on “One Tribe at a Time” from Pat’s site.
It’s a direct link to a pdf.
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I don’t see anything about women in my comment.
I like Raven’s response better, but your’s is um, tempered . . . . SD . . *G*
Most women do not have experience in armed conflict, therefore they can only be viewed as useless keyboard warriors. – Isn’t this the meaning of your comment?
Southern and Fuckno – I’m not quite clear what the argument is but could we step back a touch here?
uh, Obama never said we’d be “out” by 2011. He said the exit strategy starts then and he’s sticking to it no matter what the military says.
You apparently haven’t been on the blogs all that long. The term “keyboard warriors” refers to chickenhawks of any gender who beat the war drum on blogs. Pimping war in print is as close to war as they’ll ever get. It’s easy to advocate war when one need not worry about getting blown up or somebody putting a hole in them.
Sorry. I’m done.
So what did I say to instigate your belligerence?
Yes, Siun, done.
Thanks to you both … we all have enough to be upset about these days I think …or so it feels whenever I check the news, eh?
Thanks.
The House will have to defund the wars.. I’m loathe to use the word anymore, but it is our only hope.
We need to work on defunding a large part of the Pentagon, with civilian contractors one of the priorities. The neoliberals have been privatizing the govt bit by bit. We need to reverse that process.
Agreed.
Tom Engelhardt got to the middle of it well enough.
Just staying current with Engelhardt at http://www.tomdispatch.com and then also Juan Cole at http://www.juancole.com gives anyone taking the time and making the effort well worth it.
Undoubtedly Siun presents the same clear and useful overview(s) here at FDL.
“If an American gets hurt then they shoot everyone”. So it must seem.
NYTimes tonight going deep with Page One story that Obama WH is all about going deep in Afghanistan and staying a long time past any suggested 2011 exit.
Incredible how Gates and Clinton are laying this point of view out repeatedly as well. Clearly the other night Barack Obama’s speech was being fully discounted within hours of its being given. A few days later even moreso. The logic lines of Obama WH 2011 Exit Plan now proven very convoluted.
A year from now will so very likely make what Barack Obama spoke about at West Point the other night sound very hollow and dishonest.
Eighteen months from now we will only be told another twenty four months must past before any real review of possible drawdown of American military in Afghanistan can be considered. More likely Pakistan will have become much more at center of conflict being CIA and Pentagon are laying the groundwork towards that being so right now.
Finally Iran ends up with big American military footprint to both the east and west of Iranian borders. With Iraqi and Afghan air space under USAF direct control and full of menace pointed at Iran.
Somehow the gameplan seems headed towards putting Pakistan into being at center of conflict and then also pushing Iran towards conflict threshold with WashingtonDC and TelAviv.
Barack Obama’s West Point speech revealed to be a string of words and little more. The surrender tendered and mocked shortly afterwards. Tom Engelhardt gets this stuff right and called this one well enough.
I wrote about this at the end of my Afghanistan entry (9) to my Obama scandals list. What we are seeing here is nothing new or surprising. This is standard Obama “walk back”. Give a speech long on rhetoric but short on substance. Have most of that substance be a re-affirmation of the status quo or an exacerbation of it. Then walk back what few positive aspects attached to the plan.
I keep saying this but Obama and his Administration are so predictable you could tell the time by them.
Are “inflection points” the same thing as “aspirational horizons”?????