
Abu Zubaydah
The set-up of Abu Zubaydah as an Al Qaeda bigwig may have been meant, among other things, for use in intimidation and torture of other prisoners. Andy Worthington recounts how a prisoner captured with Zubaydah, Omar Gharmesh, reported to another prisoner in Syria’s infamous Palestine Branch prison, where they were sent via “extraordinary rendition,” that he was shown pictures of a tortured Abu Zubaydah and told, “If you don’t talk, this is what will happen to you.”
What has not been reported until now is that another prisoner reports that he and a number of other detainees at Guantanamo were also shown pictures of a tortured and injured Abu Zubaydah.
Ibrahim Mahdi Achmed Zeidan, a Jordanian prisoner transferred from Guantanamo to Jordan two years ago (despite the fact the Jordanians told him they “would beat” him when he was released from Guantanamo), stated in his Combatant Status Review Tribunal (Sept. 27, 2004) that he knew about Abu Zubaydah’s torture. Zeidan claimed that Zubaydah’s statements identifying him had been induced by this torture. How did he know Zubaydah had been tortured, the Guantanamo tribunal asked, and Zeidan replied (bold emphasis added):
We know from the American interrogators, not only me, but also a lot of other detainees on this island know that he was subject to a lot of torture. There was a picture of him, I didn’t see it, and someone else did showing the signs of torture on his body.
Two recent news items – the revelation Binyam Mohamed was a victim of the same treatment Abu Zubaydah received, and at about the same time (discussed in my last post); and the repeated use of the fact of Zubaydah’s torture in the interrogation of prisoners, including oral statements from interrogators and pictures of a tortured Zubaydah — demonstrate how little we really know about the particulars of the operations of the U.S. torture program.
Nor do we know very much about what is going on even now, in an era of supposed transparency by the Obama administration. The Washington Post and New York Times each had articles over the weekend about torture occuring at a remaining, “classified” black site prison run by Special Operations at Bagram Air Base. The Post article used testimony from two Afghan teens, one of whom said he had been forced to watch pornography while also looking at a picture of his mother. The Times article, with 42-year-old displaced farmer Hamidullah, described a period of torture that took place since Obama became president.
Also demonstrating how little we still know about the extent of U.S. torture and abusive detention policies, in early November the ACLU wrote to Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, “requesting updated data on juveniles in U.S. military custody in Iraq and Afghanistan and information on efforts to bring U.S. policy regarding the treatment, detention and trial of juveniles into compliance with international law.”
As for Abu Zubaydah, it seems likely at this point that his torture was singled out for special treatment and photographic propagation because he was being set-up as a major figure. After his cover story as a key leader was embedded in the public’s mind (and remember that Ron Suskind found that Bush was the major figure in pushing the importance of Zubaydah). the fact of his torture was then paraded before other prisoners in an effort to scare and intimidate them. Meanwhile, a major scandal and investigation have involved the CIA’s admitted destruction of videotapes of Zubaydah’s interrogation. Were the photos of Zubaydah’s torture also destroyed?
The similar torture of Binyam Mohamed and perhaps others, even quite early on, took place in total secrecy. For this part of the torture narrative, the United States and its British ally have been trying mightily to suppress all knowledge, but thanks to the intrepid morality of some British judges, they have failed.
As Andy Worthington noted, propagating knowledge of this “evidence of widespread torture and abuse prior to the August 2002 torture memo… may well have to be the focus of our pressure as writers and activists if, as anticipated, the OPR [Office of Public Responsibility] report on the OLC [Office of Legal Counsel] lawyers ends up having had its teeth removed.”



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And of course everything these prisoners say is to be taken at face value and accepted without any skepticism at all.
What was it that Shrub and Big Dick always said? “We don’t torture?” Hmm hmm. They must have been misled by over-reliance on the euphemism in the original German: verschaerfte Vernehmung.
If the Red Cross had timely access to prisoners and they weren’t kept in illegal black ops prisons, WE WOULDN’T HAVE TO RELY ON MULTIPLE PRISONERS’ INDEPENDENTLY CORROBORATED REPORTS, now would we?
Especially what they said under torture which W used to launch an unjust war.
kos is coming up on KO.
More casualties of Irak?
Joshua Hunter, Fort Drum Soldier, Arrested For Stabbing Deaths Of Waide James, Diego Valbuena
If you’re a top US government official and want to get away with murder, simply start illegal and ill-advised wars and assist in the destruction of the economy. This will keep the US populace preoccupied until the facts of your crimes become yesterday’s news and any applicable statutes of limitation tolls.
fits the profile, doesn’t it.
Susan Rice is going to be on Rachel.
In fact, one of the amazing things about the torture program is that it produced such few useful false confessions.
The most common symptom of PTSD is anger. Many, if not most, spend years learning to control it.
A very good question. However, if they weren’t perhaps part of the drive by Obama to suppress release of photos was the thought that releasing any photos started down a slippery slope to releasing photos of Zubaydah’s and/ or Mohamed’s torture.
Also, thanks for the link to the ACLU letter on juvenile detainees. I don’t know how I missed that one; I try to follow the juvenile issue closely.
Since my years in VN I’ve maintained that torture is used both as a punishment and a violent demonstration of control rather than a legitimate intelligence gathering “tool.”
That’s because that’s exactly what torture is.
You’ve maintained correctly.
Yes, my reading on torture quickly boiled down to revenge/punishment/control/sadism/other stuff of the ilk, and collecting false confessions. Often the motives are mixed.
Do you ever watch The Closer on tnt? The interrogator gets confessions by trickery, usually involving having information that the interogee is surprised about, leading him to give up more. My late husband was a POW interrogator in Germany in WWII. I didn’t talk to him a lot about it because he died long before W ever got into office. But he did indicate that the trickery route was used frequently and productively.
Your local detectives do much the same thing but less sophisticated.
My teebee is only good for VHS and, when I get off my ass to make the connections one of these days, DVD use. Not worth the money for cable or rabbit ears box imo. Just as well pull a Utah Phillips with it.
KO,and Musto….cracked up my shit …tonite…707
KO has my sense of humor,or i have his…whatever
those 2 shrink doctors…………….OMG!
Musto leaves me completely cold. But then I admit to having a weird sense of humor.
Yes, that comes out on L&O, which is much less sophisticated interrogation. But on that program the greater emphasis is on detecting & prosecuting, and on The Closer it is slightly more on Brenda’s (Deputy Police Commissioner, or some such title, in LA; does major cases) ability to get confessions when the case isn’t quite made.
Susan Rice has a slightly different delivery than Condi Rice, but otherwise they might as well be the same. Get them there & not here. Must do it. Blah blah blah.
And should we add that such ICRC access is not allowed even in President “Afghan surge” Obama’s own Special Ops black site prison at Bagram? (rhetorical comment)
Well, that may depend upon how the term “useful” is interpreted…and by whom.
when KO turned onthe Xmas tree,Musto said ,he hated cheap sentimentality
My read is governments have always used torture to force prisoners to lie, not for gathering truth.
I think this is perhaps because they were not all meant to produce false confessions. Some were, I believe and have been trying to document as best I can (new article soon!), performed as medical experiments, some were pure sadism (especially once the torture jinn were widely unleashed).
Oh yes, I forgot the medical experiments that always creep in to such operations. Logical outcome when people are stripped of their humanity. Physical or physchological or both?
Well, the torture seems to have produced one useful (for awhile) false confession and no useful true confessions, so what have I missed?
They tortured for 3 reasons: they liked it, they wanted to and they could. No one could do those things if they didn’t enjoy it.
Are you familiar with the Stanford experiments? It doesn’t take much to make people become torturers. Scrath the surface by just a tiny amount and you are a torturer.
@28
I didn’t suggest that you missed anything.
But the intent and the content of much of these black ops are purposely obtuse.
Yes, I know the Stanford experiments and it does show that we are not very civilized.
Isn’t that the one where the researcher stopped the program because some of the participants were getting brutal with their “charges?”
Man, is that an understatement.
Jeff, I was doing some research of late and came across a source that said that AIG was the insurer for the American Physchiatric Association.
I have been trying to backtrack and locate the original source.
I will post if I can locate it.
Susan Rice is hotter! *g*
Man, I was listening to her talk about Afgan and I swear if you replaced the word Afghan with Iraq, it was the exact same shit we heard for years under Bush. Not an open ended committment. Gotta engage em there so not here. Gotta train more of their own security forces. etc. etc. etc.
Are a majority of folks in this country really this stupid?
And why the fuck did I get so excited last year I could barely sleep to vote for this guy? I’m just not sure where the big “change” is.
From The Times Literary Supplement October 17, 2007
Texts for torturers
From Stanford to Abu Ghraib – what turns ordinary people into oppressors? Martha Nussbaum Recommend?
Philip Zimbardo
THE LUCIFER EFFECT
How good people turn evil
288pp. Rider and Co. £18.99.
9781844135776
In August 1971, the Stanford University psychologist Philip Zimbardo and his team of investigators selected twenty-four young men to participate in their study of the psychology of imprisonment. The men, only a few of whom were students, had answered an ad placed in both the student newspaper and the local town daily that offered subjects fifteen dollars per day for two weeks to participate in a study of “prison life”. The successful applicants were randomly assigned to the roles of prisoner and guard, fifty-fifty. Prisoners were to stay in the prison for the entire two weeks; guards served in eight-hour shifts, three groups per day. Thus began the now famous Stanford Prison Experiment
Texts for torturers – Times Literary SupplementOct 17, 2007 … Philip Zimbardo THE LUCIFER EFFECT How good people turn evil 288pp.
entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and…/article2677344.ece – Similar
Yep. That’s what I thought it was. I heard him interviewed about a year ago.
A prediction:
A few years from now someone in here will post the following:
“…..how little we really knew about the particulars of Barack Obama’s continuation of the Bush administration’s torture programs….”
Nothing this man does [or will do] shocks [or will shock] me.
I keep waiting for it all to start turning around. I keep waiting for Obama’s policies to make a fool out of me for dumping on him over and over again. I’ve been doing this since the day I found out he was assuring the Canadians he was lying on the campaign trail about his position on Nafta. I knew in my gut right then he was just a phoney progressive. And little has happened since to change my mind.
Might have been this segment on DN! For some reason I’m thinkin’ I’ve heard him since then, too.
Both.
Or this one from Terry Gross’ Fresh Air Same year as DN!, though. 2007
Upon rereading the article, I see there may be some unclarity around what happened with Zaidan and the Jordanians.
At his 2004 CSRT hearing, as quoted in the article, Zaidan said, “”When the Jordanian delegation came here [i.e., to Guantanamo], they told me they would beat me when I leave here. I was being threatened here.”
It is not known if Zaidan had any inkling at that point when or if he would be released, or if he was, would it be to the Jordanians. In the end, in 2007 he was released to Jordanian custody.
Unfortunately, we can’t ask Zaidan now what happened to him once he was in Jordanian custody, since he’s dropped off the face of the earth after being sent to Jordan, and then supposedly released by them a little while later. My guess is he was killed, either in prison in Jordan (and the release was a fake), or afterwards.
The only “say” Zaidan could have had in where he would be sent upon release from Guantanamo is that by international protocols to which the U.S. adheres, no prisoner or person in state custody should be released to a state where he could be tortured. (This is, for instance, why the Uighurs can’t be sent back to China, i.e., the possibility they might be tortured there.)
Pity that they destroyed all the tapes of Zubaydeh’s interrogations, ain’t it. And why are they so intent on keeping the one remaining photograph of Zubaydeh they’ve found out of the public eye?
And why would you even be so skeptical that they would show the photograph to intimidate other prisoners when it’s confirmed that they waterboarded Zubaydeh 144 times???? Do you really think that the CIA would not use a threat of violence when they actually perpetrated it repeatedly on Zubaydeh?
I’ve gotta wonder about you guys sometimes.
Well it did get enough of them to allow HSD to issue several false “Orange Alerts” at times convenient to the Bush Administration.
Where there are “experiments” there is data. Somewhere there must be data logs. I wonder where?
The Stanford Prison Experiment and the Milgram Experiment are classic case studies of how establishing a person with the authority to have ultimate control over others doesn’t require much encouragement for that to lead to torture and abuse.
These experiments were done before ethics codes were put in place, and to some degree led to the establishment of informed consent rules. Most University research, and faculty and staff associated with a university, are bound by these codes.Experimentation on prisoners is even more tightly restricted than it is on the use of informed students ~ the application of untried and untested “discipline techniques” are absolutely forbidden on prisoners.
Interestingly, John Yoo…still affiliated with the University of California…actually authorized such experiments on prisoners. As he still retained his professorship and tenure at UC Berkeley it’s amazing he hasn’t been disciplined for violations of the school’s ethical code.
Jeff, was the update an update to the 2006 report that said that 2,500 children had been prisoners between 2002-2006 for an average period of 1+ years? The same report said an update was planned for 2008.
I didn’t spell it out concretely in the article, and I suppose, from this first comment, I pay for it.
But it should be obvious I went with this story because the reports of use of AZ’s photo can be demonstrably proven to come from multiple unconnected sources, one of which took place in 2004 before we even knew the particulars of AZ’s torture, or any other story about showing the picture, and there was no belief by the prisoner, at a secret U.S. military hearing, that his story would ever be heard by anybody.
Your cynicism here is unbecoming, if not unsophisticated.
Well, they haven’t been given to me! I’d assume they have been destroyed. But if they were used for what I think they were, they may have been laundered in with other (i.e., academic) data, or exist in some company’s database (a private or ostensibly private company working with DARPA and/or ITIC on the new biometric devices). I know this sounds quite conspiratorial, but I’ve posted links to the primary material on this in earlier EW threads, and I do promise to have a full article out on this soon.
I wrote about this update at Daily Kos and Invictus the other day:
Here’s a link to the UN CRC review (long PDF).
Reply at 52 is for you.
We would have more faith in the words of any torture victim over the words of Republican Traitors on any subject whatsoever!
I can relate to that.
I don’t like him either.
Renouncing religious faith or an allegiance to a king or country is often the cited reason. But when we visited the torture museum in Madrid, I learned it was mostly about sexual sadism. They had all kinds of torture implements in the glass cases, but most of them were designed for sexually brutalizing women.
The church Fathers would torture the women in order to make them name other women to be tortured. The actual purpose was ethnic cleansing. It worked too, group after group fled Spain until there were no minority religions left at all. It was a very effective purge. Many jews even fled to the newly discovered Americas where they seemed to sort of disappear.
As a torture victim of the Bush administration, I can tell you I am sleeping a lot better now. There is an attitude shift. It is not enough, of course, but it is better. I no longer feel like people are actually trying to torture me. They were before. It may be a difference that others don’t feel, but to me it is immense.
The first reader comment to Jeffrey’s excellent article mocks the idea that Al Zeidan’s testimony was credible.
Certainly we should bring healthy skepticism to the testimony of the captives — just as we should bring healthy skepticism to the claims of the DoD’s spokesmen.
I encourage Masanf to apply that healthy skepticism to the idea that Al Zeidan lied about interrogators bragging about Al Zeidan’s torture, and lied about interrogators showing images of Al Zeidan’s torture to other captives. Masanf needs to remember that Al Zeidan’s testimony is from 2004 — three years before CIA director Michael Hayden acknowledged to the public that Abu Zubaydah had been tortured, and that the CIA had recorded Abu Zubaydah’s torture — for “training purposes”.
Occam’s Razor Masanf — are you really suggesting that Al Zeidan decided to make up the claim that interrogators recorded the torture of one captive, in order to terrify other captives, and in the world’s greatest coincidence, he accidentally named the one captive whose torture we would later learn was recorded?
Please bear in mind that Al Zeidan was in military custody, in Guantanamo, while, Abu Zubaydah was still in top secret CIA custody.
What did DCI Hayden mean with his claim the recordings were made for “training purposes”, anyhow. From Al Zeidan’s testimony I think Hayden was obfuscating, and that the intended viewers of the tapes were, and had always been, other captives undergoing interrogation. From Al Zeidan’s testimony I think the intended purpose of the tapes had always been to illustrate to other interrogation subjects exactly how far American interrogators were authorized to go to get the answers they wanted.
Blackwater’s ties to the firm Total Intelligence Solutions is the entree to King Abdulla of Jordan.
These are some fascinating links-especially the Scahill piece about needing special prosecutors for Blackwater.
Jordan’s Spy Agency: Holding Cell for the CIA :: Total …RealNews Items Over the past seven years, an imposing building on the outskirts of this city has served as a secret holding cell for the CIA. Full Story …
http://www.terrorism.com/modules.php?op=modload&name…sid... – Cached
We Need a Special Prosecutor for Blackwater and Other CIA …Aug 31, 2009 … Total Intelligence, which opened for business in February 2007, is a fusion of ….Cofer Black heaped lavish praise on Jordan and its monarchy. …
original.antiwar.com/…/we-need-a-special-prosecutor-for-blackwater/ – Cached
Blackwater’s Private SpiesAs part of his duties, he was the CIA liaison with Jordan’s King Abdullah, … Total Intelligence’s chief operating officer is Enrique “Ric” Prado, …
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080623/scahill – Cached – Similar
We Need a Special Prosecutor for Blackwater and Other CIA …Total Intelligence, which opened for business in February 2007, … As part of his duties, he was the CIA liaison with Jordan’s King Abdullah, …
http://www.globalresearch.ca/PrintArticle.php?articleId=15006 – Cached
Blackwater’s Owner Has Spies for Hire – washingtonpost.comNov 2, 2007 … The operation, Total Intelligence Solutions, has assembled a roster of … Now Jordan has hired Blackwater to train its special forces. …
http://www.washingtonpost.com › World › Special Reports › Blackwater – Similar