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After going through an extended period of highly ritualized consultations and deliberations, the president has arrived at a decision that never was much in doubt, and that will prove to be a tragic mistake. It was also, for the president, the easier option.
It would have been much more difficult for Mr. Obama to look this troubled nation in the eye and explain why it is in our best interest to begin winding down the permanent state of warfare left to us by the Bush and Cheney regime. It would have taken real courage for the commander in chief to stop feeding our young troops into the relentless meat grinder of Afghanistan, to face up to the terrible toll the war is taking — on the troops themselves and in very insidious ways on the nation as a whole.
This will not end well.
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Keith had it exactly right, but He and none of the rest of us have any say.
Obama hasn’t listened to anyone other than the Washington establishment, military advisors, and the people that have caused all our problems.
So is their any hope He will miraculously change? No He will continue to take this Country down the path to it’s downfall, until he the next election when He is trown out of office.
You would think that as a student of history he might have learned from the Russian experience in Afghanistan. Hell, he could have read Kipling…
On the first half hour of WJ this morning the Q was Af. Only 1 out of a dozen or more calls thought that O was doing the right thing by adding more troops, on the support-the-troops theory. (The logic escapes me how putting more troops into a hot war is supporting the troops, but that’s another story.) 3 callers wanted O impeached over the wars.
There’s no there there. I’m reading a book on Afghanistan by an academic that covers the period from 1919 until 2000 (book was published before 9/11. In addition to all the disabilities that Afghanistan suffers from that we focus on, the author, Larry P. Goodson, emphasizes the long run consequences of endless war and how it has destroyed not only the physical infrastructure but also every shred of civil society. VSP analysts think that can be erased by the all powerful U.S. if it just pursues the right policy.
The lead paragraphs in Bob Herbert’s piece
Afghanistan is Dari for Viet Nam
DN reports on a study that shows that media pro-war voices outnumber anti-war voices significantly.
Brzinsky figured that out right away.
Protests outside West Point tonight. Geez, the gate is so far away from any buildings, that should be futile.
Gee, I wonder if the media pundits would be anti-war if the parent companies of the media outlets weren’t deeply involved in the war industry.
Eisenhower also counseled LBJ to send ground troops into South Vietnam in 1965 and to take a strong stand so that the Communists wouldn’t prevail.
All the literature on Afghanistan, particularly that of Martin Ewans shows that this won’t end well. One of Britain’s biggest disasters resulted in a lone man riding out of the country on a horse, barely alive leaving many, many British corpses behind.
We never, ever learn.
Dya think.
But the U.S. is much better than any empire of the past. /s
OT: SD, Are you there in Fla getting any more truth/details about the Tiger Woods story? I am such a fan….have been forever. I hope it settles down.
Have you read any of the books in the Flashman series by George MacDonald Fraser? A sarcastic cult fast moving fictionalization of the whole British sorry mess. I think the first in the series, by the title Flashman, covers the incident you mention.
One thing I can say about President Obama is that he hasn’t disappointed me yet.
Yer funny. And, I do remember you’ve been saying a long….
As much as I would have loved to be disappointed.
Is it too early to start getting the holiday blues? I’m starting to see some of the gals at the gym getting a bit (more) testy.
I believe you. The word you used eaerlier, about the protest, really stands out in my brain this morning: Futile.
Given financial circumstances, I’d be surprised if Black Friday didn’t usher in black moods.
democracynow is doing a segment on the Honduran election. Another smarmy O response, supporting the coup, lightly disguised with finger shaking & democracy lip service.
Are the capital pronouns supposed to elevate KO to God like stature?
His name was Dr William Brydon.
A good book on the First Afghan War is “Beyond the Khyber Pass” by John H Waller.
Those are hilarious. A little racy, too.
Olberman is right on! On another note, is there anybody who likes countdown, but cant stand when KO does football highlights?
For those who associate spending a lot of money = a successful holiday, yes this year will be rough.
I did something this year I never thought I’d do; I bought an artificial tree. Six footer for $20.00. I’m considering it a Green Choice. I’ll never feel guilty of “killing” a tree again.
Maybe that is why I reacted like I did. My father read Kipling to me as a girl.
Nothing other than what’s been in the national media. The focus now seems to be on the alleged mistress.
Hecho en China?
We had one in my family…not as a kid, but later. And I loved it. Enjoy.
I.ve read only the first one, during the first phase of the Afghan war. Now that we’re in the next phase, I’m reading all the books on Afghanistan that I put aside when Iraq happened. I should get a few more Flashman books. They’re really great.
Does anyone find the notion of a .40 per gallon gas tax to fund War just a little ironic? Impose an additional tax on Americans to fund a war to essentially perpetuate an energy delivery system in which for decades, .75 cents of every American dollar spent on just the “”potential energy”" called gasoline is inefficiently wasted in the form of heat energy while sitting in traffic going no where? This is dumber than dead dirt. The foooooooortunes and liberty squandered by a corporate instilled brainwashing campaign has extracted life and liberty from America, of untold proportions. Today we suffer the consequences of policies design to make corporation rich, while for decades the American people have been ripped off! Reminds me of a certain King and his cohorts in colonial crime!!
在中国
I just went in the other room to look at the box. And, you are correct. Oh, fine. Just more bad karma. But, I got no money, honey. I usually check on that before I buy something. In this case, I’m going to give myself a hall pass considering all the money I’ll save over the next many years.
way OT: Sting is on Am Joe
The church I attend does a big tree lot, has for many years. The biggest fund raiser. We work it and I’ll bring home some branches to get That Smell into the house. Also, the mister and I will be giving a little concert outside near the lot in a couple of weeks and that should be a blast. We’re playing a variety of songs including that wonderful duet, Baby, It’s Cold Outside. :)
Just another tax on the poor. What else is new.
我们不会借给你更多的钱。
Translation: We’re not lending you any more money.
I’m impressed. How is it that you know Chinese?
Don’t be. *g* I used the translation tool at Google to translate my English into simplified, vs traditional, Chinese. The first one was “Made in China.”
I did once start a course in Mandarin via shortwave from China.
No but more should listen, and have the brains to comprehend.
Both seem to be lacking in our society. It’s sad but true.
How many brownie points did I lose here at the Lake for discovering and sharing the hencho in China thing? Maybe I should have lied.
Sounds great…
((((Demi))))
I’m still impressed, but not as much. *g* I’ve never used internet translation tools. I figured out what the first one was.
Years ago, I sometimes asked the waiter in Chinese restaurants what the symbols on the chop stick package, or soy sauce bottle, or whatever. By the third time with different symbols, got the same answer: good fortune. So I stopped asking.
Nah….honesty only. Your story reminds me a little good part about the tree in a box. My dad was a real jerk on a tree lot…he liked to haggle about money…did not help the Christmas spirit.
You are absolutely correct. This will not end well. More death, destruction and loss.
Our last president served a neoconservative agenda. Our new president serves a neoliberal agenda. Not much has changed. The taxpayer money funnel is just pointed at a slightly different set of corporate masters, that’s all.
GEE! Tax the thing we should be getting rid of.
Gas because it comes from foreign oil is our biggest problem, and no one seems to be able to comprehend that.
When someone attacks Iran, and war breaks out limiling that oil supply, we will all wish we had switched fuels.
The billions we are paying for that oil now will become trillion over night.
The war mongers won’t help the stupid to fill their tanks when gas goes to ten or more dollars a gallion.
If your purchase were a foreign policy problem, the dilemma would be stated in terms of realpolitik vs. idealism.
Thanks, Mike. I feel better, but I must share something else. Right after I asked about the brownie points, I got kicked off and had to log in again. Computers Gods gaming me? Ha.
And, I always tell the truth.
You might or might not be interested. (below) We are attending a local one tonight. I will let you know how many DONT ATTEND and what good IT WONT DO.
UNITED ANTIWAR MOVEMENT TELLS OBAMA: NO ESCALATION!
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/48050
VETERANS FOR PEACE
Working Together For Peace and Justice since 1985
http://www.veteransforpeace.org
dn started segment on pro-war media.
Personally, I’m horrified. I watched this same shit go down in 1965 during which time I spent several months figuring out a way to successfully avoid getting drafted and sent to that PREDICTABLY idiotic mess that soon became the Vietnam quagmire. What purpose war? Aggressive war — imperialistic war — is criminal. Such war is not heroic, it’s cowardly. It’s also very likely the most vivid sign available — a gigantic billboard, lit up for all to see — that advertises an America in the final stages of decline, of pending collapse.
America: the billboard says. America: A nation consumed by Gluttonous Greed. America: The emergent fount of Envy, the harbor of an intellectual Sloth voluminous enough to demand the misplaced Pride of patriotic Wrath sufficient to encourage and enshrine the eternal Lust for imperial power. America: The absolute personification of Dante’s Seven Deadly Sins. America: R.I.P.
In NYT it was 5:1, in WaPoo it was 4:1 in op eds.
I still have the 2 textbooks I got from Beijing. It was fun but I wasn’t any good at it. Back in the days when I had a shortwave radio on the desk instead of a computer. Should never have sold that radio.
And all the NYT anti-war op eds came from Herbert.
Thank you, too.
Regarding the moods, I put together a Cookie Exchange day at the gym. I was showing one of the gals the flyer I made and she about had a fit. She screamed at me Why are you shoving this crap in my face. We’re supposed to be getting healthier and you’re….I cut her off and told her the idea came out of some of us sharing low fat recipes. I said it’s voluntary, you don’t Have to join. And, for goodness sake, it’s only one freaking day in the whole year. I’m saying, Sheesh.
Will tonight’s speech be the same one he’ll deliver as an acceptance speech for that PEACE prize?
Really, who else could he stand before, other than a military audience, to deliver his propaganda ? If he went before an audience of Americans,say in the rust belt, who have been raped to the tune of $10,000 each for these wars, he wouldn’t finish a third before the cat call “LIAR” would start ringing out.
Either we’re out of these wars by election day 2011 or Obama’s turned out along with his supporting cast of Democrats.
Somewhere here at FDL there was a compelling speech Obama should be giving and won’t, about how he’s going to take the unpopular stand and immediately begin the drawdown. It may have been a link from a comment to an external publication. I can’t find it now, and since I’m at work I can’t take time to rummage. Does anyone know what I’m referencing and where to find it. It would be well worth posting again. It was spot on!!
The son of a good friend went to China after undergrad. He’s actually getting jobs as a model & is in some sort of movie for scifi channel, iirc. He’s brilliant, and originally hoped to become facile enough in Manadarin to get into one of the good graduate schools in the U.S. Last I checked he knew 6000 symbols but was turned down at the graduate schools because he isn’t fluent enough.
A tad testy, I would say.
Obama seems to have no ability to stand up to established interests, whether it’s the banking community, the national-security community, the medical-industrial complex, etc. The only people he’ll stand up to is his base, because Rahm Emanuel keeps telling him that it’s good politics: “They have nowhere else to turn.”
Best Q of the thread. Thanks.
I just ignore them, as I do any football talk. I hate football.
And here in TX there is an opening at the War Museum for enlargement of tribute to GHW Bush…we all love the war stuff, dontcha know? Outta here, folks.
And just how will you know how many don’t attend?
I’ve been in the streets since our first invasion of Afghanistan. Have our efforts been successful? Obviously, no. I am, however, a firm believer in a saying of White Rose:
We will not be silent. We are your bad conscience. The White Rose will not leave you in peace! (concluding sentences, Leaflet 4)
Never. Give. Up.
Here it is:
The Afghan Speech Obama should give (but won’t)
Fortunately, I get to work from 3 – 8 today, so, I don’t have to watch the speech. But, I’m guessing it’ll be discussed tomorrow. A lot.
Have a good day, Bev. Don’t take any wooden nickels, as my pop used to say.
I already know my response to the speech.
Horseshit.
That is why gawd invented the TV remote control.
New post up top…
Yeah, that’s what the drill instructors told me down in Parris Island before telling me and the other guys to go kill some slopes for God.
Now they’re telling new Marines to get Hajii
They should be going after Bush and Cheney and the rest of the criminals here.
I love it when you talk like that. Short, sweet, to the point.
I need to develop that skill. I’m going to try that on the next person who yells something stupid at me.
Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.
US KIA Irak: 4,367
US KIA Afghanistan: 929
US MBS 2009: 41,416
Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.
Namaste
You should get plenty of practice tonight. Every time Obama says something you know to be horseshit yell horseshit at the toob. It’s easy.
to his credit, he listened to his Army Chief of Staff Matthew Ridgway in 1955 when advised to stay out of SE Asia – “an unwinnable guerilla war”. and somewhere there’s a note of Ridgway telling LBJ all the bombs and air power weren’t going to win “a war fought in jungles”
Mornin’ All
My 12-year-old daughter came home yesterday and shared an interesting talk she and some classmates had after they had finished their classroom work. One student asked, “Is anyone willing to share their political party leanings or that of your parents?” All the kids agreed. Two leaned Republican, two leaned Democratic and two leaned Independent. The next question asked by another student was, “What did you think of George Bush?”
“I did not like him.”
“He made a mess of our country.”
“He was a bad President.”
“He wasn’t so much a bad President but a very stupid leader.”
“He is responsible for where our country is today. He failed at protecting the Constitution.”
The next question was, “What do you think of Obama?”
“He was handed a pile of crap.”
“He’s smart but he would be smarter to arrest Dick Cheney.”
“He needs to bring the troops home.”
“He needs to create a jobs program and work towards more green technology.”
“He needs to regulate the finance industry.”
“He needs to address the issue of torture.”
The next question was, “What do you think we need to do about Afghanistan?”
“Bring the troops home.”
“Send more development aid.”
“If the work cannot be done as an equal international coalition, we should not do it alone.”
“It’s another Iraq.”
“Stop using military contractors and end the privatization of the military and intelligence.
The final question was, “What did you think about the article we read in our weekly reader about Afghanistan?”
“Well, I am not about to support a ten year war.”
“Yeah, the country is in the crapper now, what will two wars and 18 years of war do to our country?”
“We’ll be college grads when this war is ‘suppose’ to end. Like the economy will recover in time for any of us to have a job or take care of our parents.”
“Our country will have been at war most of my life. This is not something I am proud of and it makes me very disappointed in my country.”
“I think the publications was written by the government to feed us nice sounding bits to take home to tell our parents in order to sell the war.”
When she finished sharing the conversation I said, “You are the smartest kids I know.”
She said, “Well we all agreed our parents were pretty smart and were making sure they are staying current with updated information. And most the kid’s parents watch the Daily Show.”
This conversation came from the heart of the campaign region in Ohio. The central Ohio region which makes or breaks which color Ohio votes in national elections.
And my dad used to say, “Keep your eyes open.” Why do they talk like that? ;))
didn’t know your kids attended a Quaker Montessori academy /s
seriously. wow. good on ‘em and God bless ‘em
As long as we worship the military young men and women will be manipulated into offering themselves up as blood sacrifices. I love them and I care for them but I will not worship them as military. To do so is to continue the process.
From Universal Soldier
Please tell me there’s going to be a better option than Obama in 2012.
Agree wholeheartedly. We cant give up ever!! I pray to god the whole street (and beyond) is FULL!!
“And the generals sat, and the lines on the map, moved from side to side.” Roger Waters 1973
In response to 53, 81, and82.
frugalchariot – well put. talkingstick – Where’s Buffy St. Marie when you need her? dick c – you know, I didn’t vote for Obombaton to go stand in front of another mandatory Military audience like George ‘Mission Accomplicated’ Bush and recite ” The U.S. is committed to the worldwide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example.” That’s Karl Rove, Dick Cheney horseshit.
Yes.
.Where is the music? And why do the streets remain free of protesters?
Maybe this will do it?