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	<title>Comments on: Dennis Prager Reimagines Plymouth Colonists as Ayn Rand Acolytes</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/24/dennis-prager-reimagines-plymouth-colonists-as-ayn-rand-acolytes/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/24/dennis-prager-reimagines-plymouth-colonists-as-ayn-rand-acolytes/#comment-2022135</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=52155#comment-2022135</guid>
		<description>One of the &quot;strangers&quot; [Randians] that started talking about breaking from the Crown was &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Billington&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John Billington&lt;/a&gt; a nasty sort who was escaping his debts and was eventually executed for murder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the &#8220;strangers&#8221; [Randians] that started talking about breaking from the Crown was <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Billington" rel="nofollow">John Billington</a> a nasty sort who was escaping his debts and was eventually executed for murder.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/24/dennis-prager-reimagines-plymouth-colonists-as-ayn-rand-acolytes/#comment-2022132</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=52155#comment-2022132</guid>
		<description>There were several such young men &quot;strangers&quot; on the Mayflower as well. It&#039;s said that they were actually the ones to direct the ship further north, beyond the boundaries of the Virginia Colony where the colonists had been awarded a large grant of land. Just before landing these few men began arguing that they no longer were subject to the laws of the Virginia Colony or the King. The Mayflower Compact was, in fact, a statement that the colonists would not become sovereign and would self-govern much as many towns were doing in Britain under Royal Charter. 

The &quot;strangers&quot;, the equivalent of the Randians, were voted down...despite the fact that it was the Pilgrims who were subject to the religious persecution of the Church of England and Crown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were several such young men &#8220;strangers&#8221; on the Mayflower as well. It&#8217;s said that they were actually the ones to direct the ship further north, beyond the boundaries of the Virginia Colony where the colonists had been awarded a large grant of land. Just before landing these few men began arguing that they no longer were subject to the laws of the Virginia Colony or the King. The Mayflower Compact was, in fact, a statement that the colonists would not become sovereign and would self-govern much as many towns were doing in Britain under Royal Charter. </p>
<p>The &#8220;strangers&#8221;, the equivalent of the Randians, were voted down&#8230;despite the fact that it was the Pilgrims who were subject to the religious persecution of the Church of England and Crown.</p>
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		<title>By: freepatriot</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/24/dennis-prager-reimagines-plymouth-colonists-as-ayn-rand-acolytes/#comment-2021973</link>
		<dc:creator>freepatriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 05:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=52155#comment-2021973</guid>
		<description>thes asshats realize that the African influence in America predates the puritan influence

right ???

even in good old Massachusetts</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thes asshats realize that the African influence in America predates the puritan influence</p>
<p>right ???</p>
<p>even in good old Massachusetts</p>
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		<title>By: Gasman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/24/dennis-prager-reimagines-plymouth-colonists-as-ayn-rand-acolytes/#comment-2021934</link>
		<dc:creator>Gasman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=52155#comment-2021934</guid>
		<description>When Praeger wrote, “My gratitude will be marred by a dark cloud” I’m sure that it was just a typo.  

I’m sure he meant “marred by a &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;darkie&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; cloud.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Praeger wrote, “My gratitude will be marred by a dark cloud” I’m sure that it was just a typo.  </p>
<p>I’m sure he meant “marred by a <strong><em>darkie</em></strong> cloud.”</p>
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		<title>By: jimvb</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/24/dennis-prager-reimagines-plymouth-colonists-as-ayn-rand-acolytes/#comment-2021933</link>
		<dc:creator>jimvb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=52155#comment-2021933</guid>
		<description>Wow, first Brooks and now this ghoul Prager. Two dismayingly wtf moments in one day. Oy, my head!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, first Brooks and now this ghoul Prager. Two dismayingly wtf moments in one day. Oy, my head!</p>
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		<title>By: tinman1967</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/24/dennis-prager-reimagines-plymouth-colonists-as-ayn-rand-acolytes/#comment-2021932</link>
		<dc:creator>tinman1967</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=52155#comment-2021932</guid>
		<description>While times are certainly harder now than years past, it still seems very appropriate to stop and realize just how lucky we are and to give thanks.  It also seems like the perfect time to revisit the story of that very first Thanksgiving.......

The first Thanksgiving was held in the early 17th Century between the Pilgrims and the local Indians.  The year of that first Thanksgiving had been especially bountiful and both  the Pilgrims and the Indians had stored their harvest in preparation for the long, hard winter.  The Pilgrims were putting the finishing touches on their little village and in fact had hired several of the Indians to help out.  The work was hard and dirty but the Indians didn&#039;t seem to mind and, fortunately, this was before OSHA, the minimum wage and...best of all... labor unions.
One day one of the Pilgrims was watching the Indians work away and thought it might be nice to invite the Indians over to their large meeting house for a big feast to celebrate how good the harvest had been.  The Indians loved the idea and on the specified day the Indians arrived at the meeting house in large numbers.  That was fine since the building could accommodate many people.  There was a huge table in front of the fireplace and in the fireplace was a blazing fire.  Only the men were allowed to sit at the large table where it was bright and warm.  The women, both Indian and Pilgrim, were relegated to the far end of the room by the door where is was much darker and colder.  Still, it sure beat being out in the cold.
The men sat around the table and discussed new ideas for planting they might try the next planting season while the women sat around and debated whether Oprah was gaining or losing weight.  
Soon it was time to eat and after all the food was set upon the table everyone agreed they had never seen so much delicious food in one place before.  They all dug in and had seconds and even thirds.  Following the meal some took short naps but then a bit later the Pilgrims told the Indians they had a little surprise for them.  One of the Pilgrims uncorked a barrel of whiskey and let the Indians sample it.  One astute fellow said the whiskey gave him a slight burning feeling as it went down and termed the new drink “fire water.”  In spite of the slight burn, the whiskey was a huge hit with the Indians and both they and the Pilgrims drank and drank. 
To entertain themselves throughout the evening, the Indians did bird calls and then the Pilgrims introduced the Indians to card games.  They showed them how to play five card stud and the Indians discovered the importance of being the house, a lesson that would pay off many centuries later.  
Finally, the hour got very late and it was time to part.  The Indian and Pilgrim men decided to get together the next weekend and go to the strip clubs down the road in Jamestown.  All agreed to meet for another big party around Christmas and do a gift exchange with a $5 limit.  
As the Indians were walking home that night under a full moon they couldn&#039;t stop talking about how much fun they had and how great a host the Pilgrims had been.  Meanwhile, back in the meeting house the Pilgrims had reassembled around the table to discuss ways to “steal” Manhattan from the Indians for a few dollars worth of cheap beads.  The Pilgrims had had their eye on Manhattan for some time and felt it would be the perfect spot for one of their most ambitious projects: Wall Street.  Once built they planned to establish investment banks along both sides of the street.  The investment banks would then sell derivatives and other risky investments back to the Indians and keep them heavily in debt while enabling the Pilgrims to achieve billionaire status.
And they all lived happily ever after...especially the Pilgrims.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://raoulsdailyblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/real-thanksgiving-message.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The End&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While times are certainly harder now than years past, it still seems very appropriate to stop and realize just how lucky we are and to give thanks.  It also seems like the perfect time to revisit the story of that very first Thanksgiving&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>The first Thanksgiving was held in the early 17th Century between the Pilgrims and the local Indians.  The year of that first Thanksgiving had been especially bountiful and both  the Pilgrims and the Indians had stored their harvest in preparation for the long, hard winter.  The Pilgrims were putting the finishing touches on their little village and in fact had hired several of the Indians to help out.  The work was hard and dirty but the Indians didn&#8217;t seem to mind and, fortunately, this was before OSHA, the minimum wage and&#8230;best of all&#8230; labor unions.<br />
One day one of the Pilgrims was watching the Indians work away and thought it might be nice to invite the Indians over to their large meeting house for a big feast to celebrate how good the harvest had been.  The Indians loved the idea and on the specified day the Indians arrived at the meeting house in large numbers.  That was fine since the building could accommodate many people.  There was a huge table in front of the fireplace and in the fireplace was a blazing fire.  Only the men were allowed to sit at the large table where it was bright and warm.  The women, both Indian and Pilgrim, were relegated to the far end of the room by the door where is was much darker and colder.  Still, it sure beat being out in the cold.<br />
The men sat around the table and discussed new ideas for planting they might try the next planting season while the women sat around and debated whether Oprah was gaining or losing weight.<br />
Soon it was time to eat and after all the food was set upon the table everyone agreed they had never seen so much delicious food in one place before.  They all dug in and had seconds and even thirds.  Following the meal some took short naps but then a bit later the Pilgrims told the Indians they had a little surprise for them.  One of the Pilgrims uncorked a barrel of whiskey and let the Indians sample it.  One astute fellow said the whiskey gave him a slight burning feeling as it went down and termed the new drink “fire water.”  In spite of the slight burn, the whiskey was a huge hit with the Indians and both they and the Pilgrims drank and drank.<br />
To entertain themselves throughout the evening, the Indians did bird calls and then the Pilgrims introduced the Indians to card games.  They showed them how to play five card stud and the Indians discovered the importance of being the house, a lesson that would pay off many centuries later.<br />
Finally, the hour got very late and it was time to part.  The Indian and Pilgrim men decided to get together the next weekend and go to the strip clubs down the road in Jamestown.  All agreed to meet for another big party around Christmas and do a gift exchange with a $5 limit.<br />
As the Indians were walking home that night under a full moon they couldn&#8217;t stop talking about how much fun they had and how great a host the Pilgrims had been.  Meanwhile, back in the meeting house the Pilgrims had reassembled around the table to discuss ways to “steal” Manhattan from the Indians for a few dollars worth of cheap beads.  The Pilgrims had had their eye on Manhattan for some time and felt it would be the perfect spot for one of their most ambitious projects: Wall Street.  Once built they planned to establish investment banks along both sides of the street.  The investment banks would then sell derivatives and other risky investments back to the Indians and keep them heavily in debt while enabling the Pilgrims to achieve billionaire status.<br />
And they all lived happily ever after&#8230;especially the Pilgrims.<br />
<a href="http://raoulsdailyblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/real-thanksgiving-message.html" rel="nofollow">The End</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jacqrat</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/24/dennis-prager-reimagines-plymouth-colonists-as-ayn-rand-acolytes/#comment-2021931</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacqrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=52155#comment-2021931</guid>
		<description>But... &quot;Socialism is SOUL-STEALING!!11!!&quot;

Or so my sister told me, just last night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But&#8230; &#8220;Socialism is SOUL-STEALING!!11!!&#8221;</p>
<p>Or so my sister told me, just last night.</p>
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		<title>By: TalkingStick</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/24/dennis-prager-reimagines-plymouth-colonists-as-ayn-rand-acolytes/#comment-2021930</link>
		<dc:creator>TalkingStick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:33:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=52155#comment-2021930</guid>
		<description>And that difference in views of fellow living things remains today. 

On a personal note: Living in the south all of my life I had never been able to figure out my liberal ways of looking at life and the world.  Then I started doing family history and found old old letters  which place me as a multi generation UUC and I know.  Family examples, teaching and telling the stories do have an influence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And that difference in views of fellow living things remains today. </p>
<p>On a personal note: Living in the south all of my life I had never been able to figure out my liberal ways of looking at life and the world.  Then I started doing family history and found old old letters  which place me as a multi generation UUC and I know.  Family examples, teaching and telling the stories do have an influence.</p>
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		<title>By: Blue Texan</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/24/dennis-prager-reimagines-plymouth-colonists-as-ayn-rand-acolytes/#comment-2021929</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue Texan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=52155#comment-2021929</guid>
		<description>Right. Wasn&#039;t the failure at Jamestown specifically what the Pilgrims were trying to avoid through their, erm, collective efforts?

I mean the Compact is not exactly, &quot;I got mine.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right. Wasn&#8217;t the failure at Jamestown specifically what the Pilgrims were trying to avoid through their, erm, collective efforts?</p>
<p>I mean the Compact is not exactly, &#8220;I got mine.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: woodrowfan</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/24/dennis-prager-reimagines-plymouth-colonists-as-ayn-rand-acolytes/#comment-2021928</link>
		<dc:creator>woodrowfan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=52155#comment-2021928</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;ll forgive a rough generalization, the early New England settlers tended to migrate in family and community groups, and made efforts to take care of one another.  The Jamestown settlers tended to be young men on the make who were determined to get rich, rich, rich and Devil take the hindmost.

Guess which colony had a lower life expectancy than even the poorest sections of England and which had a higher life expectancy than the old country???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;ll forgive a rough generalization, the early New England settlers tended to migrate in family and community groups, and made efforts to take care of one another.  The Jamestown settlers tended to be young men on the make who were determined to get rich, rich, rich and Devil take the hindmost.</p>
<p>Guess which colony had a lower life expectancy than even the poorest sections of England and which had a higher life expectancy than the old country???</p>
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