“In that case, I’m just going to take my teabag and go home.”

You should have learned this K1.

poor costume choice: weren’t the redcoats the bad guys, anyway?

Hey Eli

Like the old quetion to the scorpion: Why did you sting me? Yes, because that’s who I am…..well…Surprised?

No time-outs!

Hey eg!

I think one of the redcoats actually said something like “We’ll give them a stimulus!”, so it was like a little morality play or something.

Unfair to Tasmanian devils! But otherwise great post, thanks Eli.

Thanks, Teddy. I’m inclined to agree – I think Tasmanian devils are actually kind of cute – but I couldn’t think of anything that would get along less well in a sack.

So, the redcoats are like Billionaires for Wealthcare, except rightwing and unfunny, performance artists?

The humor deficit on their side is quite striking, every time.

We’re the good guys, do we get blue coats?

how about Jon & Kate?

Mongoose and cobra?

But red-soled shoes.

Well, it kinda has to be a bunch of the same species…

make mine a white lab coat. I’m not a doctor but I played one with the neighbor girl when I was six.

Rachel is now going to talk with her panel about the GOP trope of rape references. Eliot Spitzer is on her panel. Fun!

Bwahahahahaha.

Aren’t there also two teabag factions suing one another? The United Teabag Express and the Teabag Express United, or something like that. And yes, it sounds just like the Judean Peoples Front from Life of Brian….

I had the same reaction to the Sarah fans who got really nasty when they were left in the cold/rain without her signing her books as promised.

You can’t hang out with a bunch of uncouth ninnies and then be surprised when they act like snarling weasels.

Rachel just mentioned FDL attacking centrist Ds, making them more electable because it makes them more centrist in appeal.

Time for a Manfred Man rewrite–”Blinded by the nuts…”

…wrapped up like a Cheney douche in teh night…

“They’re fractured at the organization level, I think mainly because there are a lot of people who have not had managerial experience who all of a sudden are thrust into the limelight and become intoxicated with it.

That is the danger when you create a hate group everyone you recruit is out for themselves. Thats the nature of evil putting yourself above others?

I think I’m disagreeing with Rachel for the first time?

Yes. She was doing a false equivalence, that FDL is as far to the left as the crazies are to the right. Instead, FDL represents what the people actually want, and the pols we try to challenge do not.

OT: Moyers doing a review of escalation (tapes/conversations) in VietNam….starting with note of 46 years ago JFK death.

Sorry to drag a big ol’ dingleberry coated teabag across your brilliantly focused lens, Eli, but sometimes at my age of ED you must take advantage of erect possibilities. Oh shit, did I say that?

Yeah, I think it really depends on how the attacks are coming across. If it’s “Those crazy liberal commie pinkos are attacking Jim Cooper, so he must be doing something right”, then yeah, maybe it helps him. But if it’s “Jim Cooper doesn’t want me to have affordable health insurance”, then he’s got a problem.

I’m sure I’ve seen far worse…

To control evil try fear a show of force, apparently Immigrants, Gays and Taxes are not enough outside enemy fear to unite the Tea Baggers a real Authoritarian leader must show the other wolves in his pack who is boss.
Either the Tea Baggers find a real Authoritarian leader willing to crack ingroup skulls or the wolf pack will all go their separate ways.

B!#$% has been compromised!

Post on this!

Yep. Dick Armey got his fix into the health insurance support bill so it’s time for the organization to crumble lest it actually fulfill populist aims and do REAL damage.

The whole deal reminds me of the left in 1969.

FDL is a lefty blog? I musta taken a wrong turn at Albuquerque!

Sounds as if they got to Rachel. We’re through the looking glass, people.

Does Rachel have any polling to back herself up? I thought the Public Option which we backed and the Media was saying was never going to happen was polling better than the Blue Dogs?
Who is shaping public opinion now Rachel us or the Media? Were you popular because of your looks or what you said?
Change what you say see if you can still be popular. Ideas vs Image the GOP the Blue Dogs the Media still think image can carry the day which it can in low interest elections not high interest elections.
High interest elections its ideas why because Crisis has forced the majority of people to pay attention the majority don’t have time to indulge in personality cults.
Not unless fear or hate drive them into lizard brain mode. Does nobody understand PR anymore?

What do you consider it, middle of the road?

Very good insight a few threads back we noticed Sarah was having trouble with her book club crowds I wonder if this is a coordinated strike by the Corporate GOP?

Yes, funny I should mention Jim Cooper…

In fighting will divide us?

A serious comment. The osmotic pressure of natural white male entitlement is an easy equilibrium to achieve at a distance. But gather the flock together from hither and yon of shallow gene pool breeding grounds and witness the furrowing of unibrows as all do not kneel before each as an obvious champion leader. Word to Republicans–you built this fucking bigoted Frankenstein party out of left over parts of southern strategy remnants designed to lay waste to vast regions of America, cheer on the union busting offshoring of thousands of middle class jobs and turning us into the feudal states of America. We build nothing and work at wallyworld and mikkidees. It has been 40 years coming, but the banksters held us hostage and shook the last few pennies from our grandchildrens piggybanks, all to insure the democrats could not use government to benefit the people. Don’t cry that your party is full of stupid people who scream loudly.

Of course, the YouTube wingnuts are explaining that *everyone* knows they were librul plants.

No, I’m thinking of the teabaggers fighting amongst themselves. I was in ratfoods backyard back in the day and the fragmentation on the left was great.

THAT’S more like it!

Just an unprovoked homage to my guru, B. Bunny. Waa-aay down upon the Swami River…

Moyers’ Journal will make you weep…sending our treasure to a faraway country while those who make the decisions are safe in their beds.
Heroes like Westmoreland….

There was a swami in C-U. He hung on the quad in his robes.I ran into him one particularly cosmic evening.

Sure that wasn’t Mr. Natural?

I just came back on line after all three of our household units were attacked by a nasty virus, but I picked a great thread to come home to.

OFG, that comment is worthy of a Seminal diary.

And 41 years ago that day one of my best friends died at Operation Meade River with E 2/7 USMC.

Nope and it wasn’t Igor either.

On November 20, 1968, at 4 a.m., Operation Meade River commenced. The monsoons for this part of Vietnam had started in October. Temperatures were dropping, and the Marines often found the nights cold. The conditions were miserable, and the rains, averaging one inch daily, added to the misery.

A whopping 80% of Democrats in his district favor creating a public option — which cooper opposes. And 16% approve of his handling of health care.

Jim Cooper is Mr. “fiscal purity” who nonetheless flipped and cast a vote for the $108 European bank bailout to get them off the hook for their toxic assets. But he won’t lift a finger to help solve the health care crisis in Nashville right now.

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/jim-cooper-16-approval-on-health-care-among-democrats/

I think we are the middle now its the Media and the Blue Dogs who are the fringe group infighting and marginalizing themselves unlike the GOP and Blue Dog poll numbers being nowhere near 50% for months or the media losing audience for decades we at least while not at our peak numbers since the election.
Well we did convince America on the public option despite the GOP, Blue Dogs and Media course the truth sells itself.

So how does this play out if your theory is correct?

Apparently Moyers has announced he is retiring in April. PBS will officially be dead to me. Well, except for NOW, anyway.

The real rift here is what was forcast months ago. These astroturf organizations got this madness started, with the help and support of the Republican Party apparatus to score political points; and everyone (with half a brain) knew the point was going to come when the organizers weren’t going to be able to keep control of these wackos.

No worries though. They’ll all be back in one symphony soon enough. The tea party movement may fizzle, but the folks taking part in it will be back to faithfully supporting right wingers and the Republican Party.

Nothing pulls them together quite like turning on the teevee and seeing a black, Islo, fascist, communist, socialist Nazi terrorist as the Prez.

No way the wing nuts are saying we did this?

I am so sorry.

The future’s uncertain
and the end is always near. . .

or

it’s all bullshit

I’m leaning toward the second. I’m all packed and headed for the gulf coast to do some fishin

peace ya’ll

Wow, there is no wiki for Operation Meade River. This entry for MOH recipient Karl G. Taylor, Sr., though.

US 107 KIA, 385 WIA and it’s considered one of the most successful USMC ops of the war because 847 charlies were killed.

Good fishin’, Raven.

http://www.historynet.com/operation-meade-river-marine-search-and-destroy-cordon-of-the-vietnam-war.htm

I am so sorry….so much horror. Thank God for the kids who spoke out. I am sad for your loss and your friend.

I do not think I had heard of the Moyers’ departure…..I love him and his truth and his Journal…..

It Don’t Mean Nothin
Drive On

J cash

Something is badly wrong in the world when a high body count is a success. Don’t understand war at all.

Thanks for the link. Sorry about your friend, I imagine he was just one of many that didn’t make it back.

Thanks rev, it was many moons ago.

Empires fall when finance not making stuff becomes the main drive of the economy. Yearly Spanish Silver fleets, Roman grain fleets from Egypt if either were late or light speculators profited as people suffered. England without the Empire sending in low cost goods, America without imports?
We import but we don’t send enough back in trade but we still import stuff the American economy is the best perpetual motion machine ever!
I would hate to be around when it stops and it will. We need to make stuff!

A bit of toipic but I just heard something of a slight about this blog on the Rachel Maddow show.

This was to the effect that the far left as exemplified by FDL (which I think is accurate) by threatening conservative Democrats such as Lincoln, Landrieu and Nelson with primary challenges will raise the ire of the rest of the Democratic party for being fractious.

The unintended consequence, it was claimed, may be to increase rather than diminish support for these candidates by more mainstream Democrats. This analysis is purely political in nature, I know, but if true is pretty discouraging. Some indication of this being valid is the capture of the Democratic party by the likes of Bill Clinton and others of the same ilk.

Left out altogether of course was the justification for the supposed far left’s position based on the merits. People in Congress that demonstrably are inept or compromised and frustrate the public’s interest should be voted out. Otherwise this putrid system is perpetuated forever.

Those on the far left who take this position were called “purists”, as opposed to those within the Democratic party that are concerned with electing Democrats to Congress.

If all this is true, what is one to do?

As far as I’m concerned, he’s been the ABOSLUTE BEST regarding health care. I love Rachel and KO and Ed, but Bill Moyers spoke truth, spoke it often, and never stopped talking about it. The truth that single payer is the only rational choice a country can make if it wants to insure all of it’s people at the lowest possible cost.

Peace what fish are good to eat raw down there I’m a sushi fan!

Here you go, put a face and a name on it and it’s a bit more real.

“Smells phony, doesn’t it? Like a bit of left-wing guerrilla political theater.”

“You know this was staged, right? I mean, it’s all over the interwebs. The booers are liberal actors.

Are you this easy to fool?”

I disagree with the assertion that FDL is “far left.” That’s another label the GOP/Media/Complex likes to put on anyone if they can. I saw that, and don’t know what made Rachel say that, but I just wanted to point out that I don’t consider this place to “far left” at all.

Believe me, there really are some “far left” ideas out there. Nothing comes close here.

Nice tribute, Raven.

As I said farther upthread, the effect really does depend on whether the voters in this districts are heeding the message, or just the messenger.

Even if I think the liberals uncouth and extreme, I might still be pissed off that my rep is selling out my chances for affordable health insurance.

The unintended consequence, it was claimed, may be to increase rather than diminish support for these candidates by more mainstream Democrats. This analysis is purely political in nature, I know, but if true is pretty discouraging. Some indication of this being valid is the capture of the Democratic party by the likes of Bill Clinton and others of the same ilk.

Bill is putting his Cred behind this?

A whopping 80% of Democrats in his district favor creating a public option — which cooper opposes. And 16% approve of his handling of health care.

Jim Cooper is Mr. “fiscal purity” who nonetheless flipped and cast a vote for the $108 European bank bailout to get them off the hook for their toxic assets. But he won’t lift a finger to help solve the health care crisis in Nashville right now.

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/jim-cooper-16-approval-on-health-care-among-democrats/

I thought Bill could read polls Eli you have to post on this man!

It is disappointing that Rachel would buy into that framing, particularly since she appeared to value Jane’s well reasoned contributions to the show.

I want to see the Rachel segment for myself first, but there’s a good chance that *someone* will be posting on it if it’s not me.

Raven thanks for sharing about your friend. Hope in some small way we are making such terrible losses less likely in the future.

Your right People is a word faces are human. I’m sorry for your loss Raven.

Well, I’m not sure what I heard was what’s been depicted here either. I’ll admit I’m in way bad pain tonight and so my understanding and hearing sometimes go haywire when I’m there, but I’m thinking of rewinding it and hearing that exchange again. Just to be sure.

Just not in the morning ok please I want in!

Thanks, Raven. So young and such heartbreak.

It took how many comments before Ratfood noticed the obvious we all should have noticed in three seconds!

I’ll probably still be asleep…

We saw such a phenom with LIEberman. We opposed him while the establishment (incumbency protection racket) rallied around him. Now he feels bulletproof and able to thumb his nose at voters and be the biggest whore in town. He campaigned against our President and kept his cherished committee chair assignment in spite of his heresy. All we can do is all we can do. Even though we were right about everything, Jane is limited to 2 minute snippets on the teevee machine. Only very serious people who were wrong about everything get permanent spots on the teevee.

The stuff I’m reading backstage doesn’t sound anything like that interpretation either, which is why I want to see it for myself before I write anything.

Thanks, I will refrain from further judgment until I see the clip.

Sorry to hear about your difficulty. I hope you have some means with which to mitigate the pain.

I disagree with the assertion that FDL is “far left.

Yeah according to the polls healthcare, Public Option, end the wars, the economy we are the middle its the Dems, GOP and Media that are the fringe right! Gamd521 however was just telling us what Rachel said I think.

Oilfieldguy – I want you to put that comment from 6:57 into a diary please?

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/post

Travelling across the south eh? ….. who would have thunk it!

Hugs Raven

Noting the obvious is my forte. Thinking now I should wait for the clip, though. Have you seen it?

Watch the segment on the MSNBC Maddow page later. Seeing the whole thing softens this impression.

Edit: The link…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/

Yet still the Public Option is more Popular than the very serious people thanks to us and the Unions lots of Union folk at the Town Halls.

Nope no tv here

Great comments tonight, Oilfieldguy.

The right wing populist movement is made up of libertarians (think Ron Paul) and conservatives (think Sarah Palin). These are people with very different ideologies and values.

fwiw – diaries are available to everyone – go for it.

‘Tis the second comment I have made in this thread that was requested as a diary. I used to be a sort of regular front pager here and really should think about returning as a poster. Even Jane has urged me and praise comes no higher…

Here it is, word for word from pressing pause and typing a lot. *g*

I will tell you that when I look at groups like FireDogLake for example challenging Democrats from the left on health care reform, saying ‘we will primary you Blanch Lincoln if you do not do the right thing by the country and your constituents on health reform.’

I look at that, from the left, as an admitted liberal and say, that’s going to make Blanche Lincoln more electable because it is going to excite the base and it’s going to excite fundraising and it’s going to get national liberals excited in supporting her. Republicans look at that and say ‘Oh they’re screwing Blanche Lincoln, she’ll never get elected in Arkansas again.’

That doesn’t sound to me like the way it was depicted above. IMO. YMMV.

I heard what Rachel said and think she’s mistaken. But I detect umbrage here and don’t understand it. Can anyone point me to a popular blog that’s more to the left than FDL? I want to pay them a visit. Also, the term far left is simply relative, isn’t it? Overton window and all that. I see the left as right and the right as wrong. Shouldn’t we be proud to have the label she put on us?

ABC will have Palin….Can I stand it?

Fiscal versus social conservatives. I don’t agree with the fiscal conservatives but at least they don’t share the social conservatives’ complete and utter contempt for reality.

Ok I admit it – we’re double teaming you

The new Rachel show is up on the web now:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#34073808

Watching, haven’t seen the controversial part yet

Also worth noting that Sarah Palin is not any ideology, but someone standing on the shoulders of folks slightly less moronic than she.

If the money and limelight were on the Left, that is where she would be.

That’s the point though. You said “popular blog.” A really “far left” (which conotes radical) blog wouldn’t be popular. It would be on the fringe.

I am afraid that this blog is about as far left as one can get and still fall within the scope of considered discourse in this country.

To advocate for a government program that finances health delivery puts you on the far left, within the permitted range of discourse. This is a country that has had its head batted in with the belief that its government is a malevolent and almost alien force. It is there for the sole purpose of depriving you of your freedom and your wealth.

The Business mentality is firmly entrenched as is the notion of free markets, even if no such thing exists in practice. This is the country we live in.

Plus I don’t think they particularly care about infringing on other people’s private sexual activities and choices. Not that I’m particularly fond of fiscal conservatives either, although I can relate to greed better than I can relate to sanctimony.

Somehow I don’t think she’d be as popular…

Yes, please.

I’m still kind of baffled that people think the government could do a worse job than the insurance industry if it tried. Especially since it’s *already* proven that it can provide quality health insurance.

Yep, agreed wholeheartedly on that last part. I don’t much like greed, but I like that fake sanctimony even less.

The right wing. Doesn’t want to put a government beauracrat between you and your Doctor. Unless you’re a woman. Hypocrites.

Blanche Lincoln is an example of a “centrist?” Rachel’s statement sounds a lot like Rahm’s argument to the veal pen that targeting Dems is “fucking stupid.”

Also worth noting that Sarah Palin is not any ideology

Sarah is a personalty she repeats the GOP ideas but like a parrot she does not understand them. If challenged she repeats herself or dodges the question.

Which is why she can roll over there. The Left is not a place free of political oxygen.
We sometimes give her credit for having some semblance of thought, as if she is what she is because she worked it out in her head.

I don’t think anything could be farther from the truth.

You’re right. I stand corrected. But it’s very hard for me to take offense at Rachel’s mistake.

Look at the polls on the biggest issues Americans care about we are the majority opinion we are the fat part of the bell curve.

Well, the controversy in the Rachel show is not in segment 1; even though the fab Nate Silver is on that one.

Not only that, but it’s pretty damn good at actual delivery of care too (not just paying for the delivery).

I now get all of my healthcare at the VA Medical Center in Martinsburg, WV, and it’s BY FAR, the best, most efficient, most pleasing health care I’ve ever received.

It’s amazing. My primary care physician is on the first floor, and I make appointments just like out in the private sector. I see him, no paper records, everything on the computer, and he needs tests. Say blood work and X-Rays. I go down the hall to the lab, get the blood drawn, go upstairs and get the X-Ray done, and when I go back to see him, all the results (including X-Ray imagery) is right there on his monitor at the touch of a finger.

I had to use the emergeny room one time. No long forms, screening, history stuff to worry about. Give em my name and last four of social, and boom, all my history, including current prescriptions and issues are right there for the ER doc to see.

I don’t understand why couldn’t have THAT all accross the lands.

The public option is not a “far left” or “liberal position.” It is a majority of popular opinion position. The Village has cast it as a “lefty” position, merely because blogs like FDL have been whipping Democratic legislators into doing what is popular. The door remains open for the Villagers and politicians to slam the door in our face to convince the populace reasonable people (paymasters) found it necessary to punch some hippies for true reform.

I don’t follow.

My claim is that Bill Clinton as reflected by his most recent position on HCR exhorted people within the party to not let the perfect be the enemy be the good. That is, to be willing to accept whatever comes out of Congress for the sake of party unity. A totally contemptible position to take but is apparently what passes for mainstream Democrats according to the Maddow show.

I don’t buy into that position at all and I was only expressing concern that if it were to be true then we are in deep trouble. As our point of view is seen as extreme.

I guess shitty private healthcare is better than excellent GOVERNMENT TAKEOVER OMG healthcare.

I would think “far-left” would be precisely that…outside the civil discourse. It would be advocating secession, insurrection, and the direct violation of the Constitutional process. In fact, sort of like the tea-baggers.

Apparently far left to the Democratic moderates means anyone not locked in their establishment beltway games. How dare someone challenge someone in the PARTY Primary!!!! Challenge an INCUMBENT! That’s…that’s….democratic!

Well, for full disclosure, I ahm, well, I like to “watch” Rachel. *g* So, maybe this is bias. But here goes anyway.

Taken in context, they had just talked about what the teabaggers were doing to Republicans, like in the NY23 contest. And some other examples like McCain changing his stance on “Cap & Trade” to help stave off a primary fight from a teabagger.

I think she was saying that it plays out a litte differently on the left. I think she was saying that when the right does it, it makes them unelectable because they have to move so far right. But when the left does it, and gave the Lincoln example, it doesn’t make them unelectable, in fact it may make them more electable because it excites the base.

IMO. As always, YMMV.

The “public option” has been restricted to an anemic 6 million people because Democrats were afraid of being accused of a government takeover of healthcare.

How’s that workin’ for ‘em?

Yeah, convincing the American people was the *easy* part…

I don’t take offense to it either. In fact, she never used the term “far left” in that segment. She used the term “left” and liberal, but never “far left” (at least if I transcribed it right, not the best of nights for me tonight).

And see my 130 for why I don’t take offense to it.

And I suspect on that issue FDL is more acceptable to the broader public, than, well…Rachel being a lesbian…or gay marriage. Now that doesn’t mean that Rachel is “bad” or “wrong”…but it means simply that her characterization – based upon public policy positions- is simply DUMB. And that’s strange coming from such a smart woman.

Hopefully she was being sarcastic…

FDL is not the Weather Underground, Maoist, Marxist-Leninist, or anything other than in the good old progressive tradition of the US in the early 1900′s that Teddy Roosevelt, Taft, Eugene V. Debs, and others of that ilk.

Gregg Levine is upstairs!
Late Night: Let’s Make a Deal

OK, My read on the Rachel piece is that she was totally spot on, and AGREEING with FDL.

She’s consistent.

FDL is far left relative to the Democratic Party. Unfortunately.

In fact, by that standard, we’re probably more “extreme” than the wingnuts.

It was a long and winding (and terrific) segment, and you have to see the whole thing.

They chose as their moniker “teabagger” before they knew it already had a more prosaic definition. There is no unified, cohesive message that emerges from the teabaggers. They are for any goofy ass conspiracy theory that strains credulity beyond the breaking point. If Rush told them Obama was Sasquatch, they would believe it. They are morons.

It should come as no great surprise that they can’t play well with others. They all bring their own pet personal conspiracy theories with them and if the other teabaggers can’t agree with them that their nutty bullshit paranoia isn’t the MOST PRESSING ISSUE IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND!, then the other teabaggers are obviously not REAL conservatives and are probably just pussy liberals.

These asshats regularly gorge themselves on the huge steaming platefuls of stupid that are ladled out by Limbaugh and FauxNews. Seeing them turn on one another is kind of like watching rats in a bag. Stupid fucking rats, that is.

I don’t buy into that position at all and I was only expressing concern that if it were to be true then we are in deep trouble. As our point of view is seen as extreme.

I agree with you on everything but us maybe being in trouble nope they are. Our point of view reflects the majority of voters its not extreme no matter what the Media or Bill say. Extreme is the thin parts of the bell curve. Its Bill the Media and the GOP who are out of touch. They all just like to Pretend to be popular and represent the mainstream.

(And if not when compared the Democratic Party as a whole, than almost certainly when compared to Obama.)

Weee! Yes it was! Let’s all go upstairs – there’s more!

but it means simply that her characterization – based upon public policy positions- is simply DUMB. And that’s strange coming from such a smart woman.

It is strange maybe Jane should call Rachel before the Lake goes in guns blazing in response to this.

Forgive me, I got an early start today. But I hear you saying that whichever “far” is involved, it moves their politician toward that end. And in the case of the left, which is where most folks are, the supposed centrists end up moving closer to the sweet spot. Did I finally get it?

Relative to them but not to the voters. Its the voters who define reality in this case. Thankfully its not the media no matter how many times they repeat the lies.

Maybe Jane can ask Rachel why a Pat Buchanan a Holocaust denier has a job at her network. Has Rachel ever asked Pat if he thinks Hitler killed Gays?

Hey, Sarah’s comin’ to The City Beautiful next week!!! maybe I’ll get to call her a quitter or something.

No argument here. By *that* standard we’re pretty close to the center, but this is A Truth Which May Not Be Spoken.

I think I had a post a while back (not sure if it was here or at my place), that everything the media say about what the American people think and want only makes sense if you define “the American people” as “the Republican Party”.

Yeah, Rachel, who schools Buchanan so completely every time they appear together, should boycott MSNBC because of the fascist.

See Overton Window

Well, I’m not sure. It’s hard for me to know exactly what she meant, but I didn’t interpret the way some others above did is all I’m saying. I interpreted it in a way that makes her the same old Rachel. (But she’s always going to get the benefit of the doubt with me cause I love her, lol. So I’m biased.)

But I could be wrong. Have been many, many times before and will be again.

Are you guys talking about Rachel Maddow? Really? She was co-opted by the mainstream media before she got her television show. She stopped being one of us the very moment someone offered her cash to be one of them. She’s been consistently dumb ever since… unless I’m remembering her Air America show incorrectly, in which case she’s always been an idiot, and it has taken us a long time to catch onto the fact. “Not as stupid as Chris Matthews, not as sexist as Olbermann” doesn’t make Maddow a shining star for our side.

And, yeah… if you recognize me from other threads, I’m more tired than you are of my contrariness, but the situations call for it!

everything the media say about what the American people think and want only makes sense if you define “the American people” as “the Republican Party

Yep. Great line there. Unfortunately true though. And it’s even sadder hearing the Republican politicians talking about the American people don’t want this public option. Duh, almost every poll shows majority support for it. But I guess when the Republican pols talk about what the American people think and want it only makes sense if you define “the American people” as the teabaggers. (lol, sorry. Such a great line I stole it!)

IIRC, “the American people” didn’t want us to pull out of Iraq, either.

I’d encountered the concept before and actually had to resort to Wikipedia to be sure I had the name right before I posted @106. Very nice shorthand for the reality.

And as the teabagger movement implodes, Glenn Beck rises to take his place at the head of his 9.12 Project. According to Politico, he will be announcing his next move tomorrow afternoon.

He’s combining the teabaggers’ craziness with Palin’s capacity for selling books:

Beck’s Saturday rally, which is set for 3 p.m., is timed to coincide with the kickoff of a tour promoting his new book, “Arguing with Idiots.”

his new book, “Arguing with Idiots.”

I hear it has a great twist ending.

As a literal old fat guy who also loves Rachel, I also cannot be objective about her opinions. But I was asking about your interpretation @130. Did I finally understand what you are guessing to be her intention?

Not boycott just get her to ask Pat what he really thinks about an issue I’m sure Rachel holds very dear.

Joe – I don’t recognize you from previous threads. But I’ve never been more sure of anything than this: You cannot possibly be more tired of your own contrariness than those who have read your comments on more than one occasion.

that everything the media say about what the American people think and want only makes sense if you define “the American people” as “the Republican Party”.

Update and repost it. Recycle

Clearly you aren’t tired of my contrariness, you’re just resistant to reality. Rachel Maddow isn’t helping us at all, she’s working towards her next big contract.

Normally I think we should shy away from teh troll…
But this is nice.

Yeah, Rachel who loves her Uncle Pat, gives him a platform, and doesn’t raise a stink at working for a place who pays him to spread his racism and antisemitism. She objects so much that she gives him equal time every chance she gets, and laughs and jokes with him every time. She’s doing such a wonderful job for us, in helping make Pat Buchanan a mainstream voice worthy of notice.

Correct. I mentioned your #152 was my first exposure. But now that I’ve had a second helping, I truly am tired.

I’m not trolling a bit. I don’t agree with you, and you don’t agree with me… but trolls are pretending to disagree to be dicks. I’m disagreeing because I think you need to pay attention instead of sucking up to Rachel Maddow simply because she’s not as crappy as Fox Noise.

Thank you for your sage advice. My only excuse is that I’ve mostly lurked all these years. Engaging does seem a waste of time.

I know… thinking is hard. It will get easier if you do more of it.

Or, are you the sort of “progressive” who is just like a Fox Noise zombie but in the opposite direction, who cannot tolerate opposing viewpoints?

I probably agree with everyone here on 99% of the issues, but I’m not convinced that people like Maddow are good spokespersons for our common cause. If that’s an opinion you cannot bear to hear, maybe you need to do some soul-searching.

NO no, it was very appropriate IMO.

Welcome to the Lake, Joe.

Thanks? Seems a bit rough of a welcome…

I’m one of those fiery liberal types who wants to kick ass and take names… can I say “ass” here? Anyhoo, I cringe when we get folks like Rachel Maddow say things I disagree with, and cringe even more when people say that they are going to interpret it so that they don’t have to change their mind about her.

I’m a skeptic first, which help lead me to my political views. One of the foundational views that I have is that you have to hold the people you like and agree with to at least the same standards as everyone else, if not a higher standard. I know that Maddow is capable of great insight and can do good things for progressives, so I get extra-peeved when I feel like she’s dropping the ball.

I’ll say.
That aside, I interpret her statement differently, and that’s all.
I watched it 3 times now, and I think I know where she is going with it.

Hey, your opinion is your opinion… unlike the “angry crazies” on the right, I think we can disagree on interpretations all day and half of the night, and finish by agreeing that we still all want to end up in the same place. A lot of people are impressed with the MSNBC lineup. I’m not as impressed, although I usually think that they are better than nothing. Sometimes I think that nothing might be a little better… but that’s OK if we disagree, because we all want the same stuff to happen, even if we argue about the details.

Joe – I feel refreshed. Suddenly I’m no longer tired.

Thanks. I’ll be looking for you here again.

I’m way late to this thread, but I gotta toss my kudo’s into yer ring.

I read thru all comments to now, just now.

Yours, are incredible, for breadth, depth, and being on the button sharp.

I just want to thank your this, I have always read your comments with interest.

Tonight, reading your stuff, I now have to read your input a bit slower, to savor it, and make sure I get it.

Cuz it’s too good to let slip by.

Thanks for all you elucidate, and share, and enlighten.

Diary, hoss, front page . . . yer worthy and I’d be delighted to read it all.

*bows*

Yer insane, and I don’t mind saying so.

Trying to reason with your positations would be futile and useless.

But I just wanted you to know, how I felt.

Yer nutz.

I’m so happy Democrats always march to the same drummer, unlike the free thinkers in the Republican party…RIGHT!!!

Hello, and welcome to the Lake.
And if you don’t mind me asking, what the fuck are you talking about?

Debate within any group brings about better ideas- Just because teabaggers can’t agree on everything doesn’t mean nobody’s going to listen to what they’re saying. We need to respond with intellect, not cheap shots.

Perhaps you have not read here before, but some posts are about the funny and some are not.
If you are all about elevated blood pressure and NOT having some laughs at your idiot opponents…

I see your point, but if you dismiss your enemy as stupid you open yourself up for defeat-Bush was the fool who got elected twice-Gore and Kerry were too smart for their own good and assumed everyone else thought like them. Obama’s win was due more to Bush’s fuck-ups than Obama’s brains, and McCain couldn’t inspire anyone with his wimpy message.

Large distinction between dismissing dangerous lunatics with way too much street, and laughing our asses off at their hi-jinks.
Anyway, welcome.

Asshat, thy name is ImprobableJoe.

I think Joe is one of the boys, but with less tolerance for wasted time.
Who can blame him?

Very droll. Thanks, Eli.

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/15591

KarenM has a diary about the very horrifying tea party behavior with people trying to share health care tragedies. A stunner.

My computer won’t link for me right now. But above is the address.

@184 — maybe the linking worked after all….

Maybe they were the one’s serving drinks. It used to be a big part of ‘winning’ in politics.

Multicolored coats.

She is showing her right wing media bias.

In the past her deference to generals and the assumed need for war completely disqualified her as a real lefty. She is a fake left, another word for it is liberal.

It is not progressive, we are the true left.

The right will try endlessly to confuse the two and slander both of them, so watch out for that.

You have to put yourself in the mind of a mass murderer to get it.

It is true.

I think we just need to form a new party that actually reflects our values instead of just pretends to. Both old parties are too corrupt, not that we shouldn’t also try to reform them.

I have seen her do stuff like that before.

I wonder if it is the influence of being inside ‘the bubble’. I find it a bizarre but common thing among ‘reporters’. Where does it come from? Living in New York? I don’t get it.

Yeah well if we can show they were all working together to terrorize us, we might get some relief from it.

I agree with you. If we think of left as intelligent or educated and right as not, it makes sense that everyone would want to move left and it says a lot about those who do not.

It is also a face saving way of still being a ‘conservative’ while not being completely wrong.

For the DFH over on the ‘extreme left’ to bring them into the big tent is easy, just keep things fiscally responsible. Then they have nothing to complain about.

The Democrats have little claim to that so it is wide open territory politically, especially if we deliver on it.

She is supported by a religious group bent on Armageddon and Cheney’s big money friends.

I don’t see how either of those things could happen on the left.

I haven’t found a site more far left that this one either.

Because she was anointed. She thinks god chose her.

If it was ‘god’ who chose her, who was it here on earth who actually made that decision ? That’s what I’d like to know.

We are where the far right meets the far left.

I think conservatives are realizing that Hippie bashing is rather passe.

I am far left. You have this impression,

I would think “far-left” would be precisely that…outside the civil discourse. It would be advocating secession, insurrection, and the direct violation of the Constitutional process. In fact, sort of like the tea-baggers.

Because that is what they want you to think. I am still not convinced anyone has a clear understanding of the TEA party movement. Didn’t it start with Ron Paul supporters? What’s the connection?

Chris Matthews was very much against it. How much impact do you think he has actually had on it?

And who elected him to be the decider on issues of public health care? The Pope?

What if Pat is gay?

But I could be wrong. Have been many, many times before and will be again.

Naw, OFG, you’ve used up your quota of “wrong.” You’ll only be “right” [correct] from here on out.

[Wink]