
(via Brooks Elliott)
My wife, the writer and scholar Anne Friedberg, died last month. She was 57 years old. She died of colorectal cancer.
In the year prior to her death she had radiation therapy, chemotherapy, two major surgeries. We are among the fortunate: because of my union membership, I have an insurance plan that actually covers the costs of real illness. There were copays, to be sure, and many out-of-pocket expenses, to be sure. But we could make decisions about Anne’s health care based on fact, science, medicine.
As some of the available chemotherapies proved ineffective against the progression of Anne’s disease, and others proved too toxic, we made use of two newer drugs. These drugs were ‘targeted agents,’ which attack the ways in which cancer cells reproduce and metastasize, without the wholesale collateral damage of traditional chemotherapies. They fall into the category of ‘biologics.’
The first was Avastin, from Genentech, an antiangiogenic monoclonal antibody. When it works, it prevents cancer cells from obtaining the access to the blood supplies they need in order to thrive. A year’s treatment with Avastin costs, according to The New York Times, $90,000. According to The New England Journal of Medicine, it extends life expectancy by 4.7 months.
The second was Erbitux, from Imclone. You may recall the name from the Martha Stewart trial – it was early word of Erbitux’s poor showing in a clinical trial that was alleged to have prompted Imclone execs to intimate to Ms. Stewart that the stock was about to start “trading downward.” But Erbitux was ultimately approved. It, too, is a monoclonal antibody. It works by inhibiting the epidermal growth factor that tumors need to grow. The cost of a course of treatment, according to Bloomberg News, is approximately $80,000, and, on average, extends life expectancy by roughly 1.2 months.
Our insurance covered both drugs. But imagine if it hadn’t:
Would you want to be in the position of making life-or-death decisions about a spouse or child based on the figures on the right-hand side of the menu? I can only contemplate what that might be like. Was the possibility of extending Anne’s life by a few months worth $80,000? $90,000?
If you had to choose: four point seven months for your spouse, or four years of college for your child? A monthly bill from the chemotherapy center, or the monthly mortgage?
As someone with recent experience, I can tell you that you would do anything – anything – that held out hope. That the equation of $80,000 for the possibility of 1.2 months would make sense to you.
These are, of course, impossible choices. But what makes them impossible is the cost of the biologics.
What keeps these costs so frighteningly high? The lack of generic competition. As these drugs are new, they are protected. You want bevacizumab, your sole and only choice is to buy Avastin from Genentech/Roche. You want cetuximab, your sole and only choice is to buy Erbitux from Imclone/Bristol Myers-Squibb. As Thomas Ward’s 1688 poem about the livery stable owner Thomas Hobson put it, “Where to elect there is but one, / ‘Tis Hobson’s choice—take that, or none.”
Senator Sherrod Brown and Congressman Henry Waxman introduced legislation that would give the manufacturers of biologics a five-year window to reap the profits of exclusivity – and then open the door to generic competitors. But they lost out to language from Senator Hagan and Rep. Eshoo, which would give the Genentech/Roches of this world twelve years of exclusivity – and then allows that exclusivity to be extended indefinitely, simply by changing to recommended dosage or administration of the drug.
You know, and I know, that the price of these drugs will never come down unless competition from generics forces them down.
And if the Hagen/Eshoo PhRMA-driven language is allowed to stand intact, ten or twenty years from now a husband, a wife, a parent, will be in that impossible position. Are 1.2 months of life worth $80,000?
Genentech, Imclone, their fellow drug manufacturers, have no worries. Because they already know how you will answer that impossible question.



145 Comments












Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Thank you for this analysis – much appreciated.
You are more than welcome.
Condolences, Howard. You are brave, and of course, inspired to speak here and now.
i am so sorry for your loss, mr rodman.
biologics should be treated exactly the same as all other pharmaceuticals.
this is a great post and very profound. thank you for sharing your story with us.
Very sorry to hear about your wife.
Oh wow,
so very sorry about your wife.
But thank you for telling the story.
“Are 1.2 months of life worth $80,000?” Isn’t a question we should have to ask. Yes, it takes money to create and manufacture these drugs, and a reasonable profit is not unfair. But gouging patients is unconscionable.
No any ideas how we can get these drugs cheaper what do these drugs sell for in foreign countries lots of drugs are cheaper in foreign countries.
My deepest regrets for your loss Mr. Rodman, and for your wife’s suffering.
Thank you for your courage to share your loss, and the circumstances regarding our healthcare system with us.
Bless you, her and us all to see a better day WRT out healthcare system and the needs of we the people.
Thank you for sharing this with us Mr Rodman.
I’m 57 and uninsured (although as a veteran, I guess I can go the VA and be low on the pecking order for services there).
The facts you present show just what an obscenity the US “Health Care” system is today.
And of course you are correct that when it is someone that you love with every fiber of your being, then doing anything no matter the cost is exactly what you’ll do.
It’s a creepy question, but some of us ask it. I recently had a converstaion with my husband wherein I told him save the money for the kids. Buy me lots of drugs and play music for me.
I am sorry for your loss but I’m sure your wife would be proud of you using her story to try and help others. Personal Stories is how we can win this fight now if we could only get some media coverage.
The title, “Algebra of Need,” is from William S. Burroughs, in an essay called “Testimony Concerning a Sickness.” He was writing about heroin addiction, but his words make full sense in this context. “In the words of total need: ‘Wouldn’t you?’ Yes you would. You would lie, cheat, inform on your friends, steal, do anything to satisfy total need. Because you would be in a state of total sickness, total possession, and not in a position to act in any other way…”
Isn’t it true that the government funds much drug research? Then Big Pharma gets to take over. How does this work? Bet the country is not paid back.
These are complex drugs to make just how many drug makers can copy them? Is copying really an issue Europe I assume can but China? South America?
Great Question seconded!
We need numbers on how much of this research is government funded and if the money is paid back with interest of course or is this another tax payer give away to big corporations.
This is big business. In 2008, the Avastin brought in some $4.61 billion globally. Roche’s goal is $7 billion to $8 billion in Avastin annually. Erbitux generated over a billion dollars for Imclone last year.
Thank you for sharing your story here tonight, sir, and my condolences on your loss. I hope the people who make these decisions about protecting big corporations from competition and insulating their monopoly will see your post here. They simply must reconsider this inhumane treatment of biologics.
Best wishes to you, sir.
Sorry for the loss of your wife Mr. Rodman. And thank you for sharing with us your experiences with her treatment. I wish every family and individual who has to go through an illness like cancer could do so without the financial worries that distract them from what is most important – focusing on the ill person.
Volumes of scale if everyone in America had healthcare wouldn’t the drug companies make back their cash quicker if everyone who needed this drug got it. Especially if they were tested yearly (free Doctor visits full work up)? Wouldn’t Cancer survival rates also go up then?
Taxpayers should be full partners in profits until generics kick in. But we are not; our elected overlords allow their corporate masters the profit on our taxpayer-funded research and development.
What if we gave Doctors doing this research a deal on their student loans. For cancer and other important drugs mind you not Viagra or acne medicine. That should cut costs.
yet they want more. enough is never enough for these greedy corporations who instead of helping the sick and suffering add their burdens.
I know what you mean.
Anyway we can get a budget on how and where the money on new drugs is spent.
So, don’t buy in.
You don’t have to live like a refugee.
Yeah. I know my sister and I have had the discussion and both said “no heroic measure” (which was also the view of our parents).
But even with that, the costs of just deadening the pain can be quite astronomical.
when the choice is buy in or die — living like a refugee requires ya at least be alive.
yeah, let’s make our own cancer drugs at home, after the corps steal our R&D taxes….
Why is the drug so expensive? Is there a real reason? I sometimes take migraine medication. There are nine pills in a pack and it costs over $300.00. It used to be around $50.00. I have always felt that they could get that amount since migraines are hell.
How much could the drug companies save if they all couldn’t advertise drugs anymore?
That is your purview. And, that wasn’t my point. Thanks for the attitude.
Thank you for this post. It is obvious we do have medical care rationing, and death panels. The Pharmaceutical companies are ghouls who have no motivation for curing disease. They make profits by keeping people ill. Oncologists are drug dealers who pump poisons that destroy the immune system. The more chemo they sell the more money they make. Why would they want to cure cancer?
How many Americans die because they don’t get these drugs?
Howard, thank you so much for sharing such a personal story. It’s one that many of us will acquire in our own way over the course of our lives, unfortunately.
In business school they taught us about supply and demand in Economics 101; they drafted all kinds of guns-or-butter scenarios to show us different curves, different break even points.
The one that sticks in my head, though, all these years later, is the example of a vertical demand curve. A student asked when would the curve appear straight up and down on a supply and demand chart.
The prof told us health care, more specifically, medicines, could have a vertical demand curve, asking the class, “If a drug would keep you alive, wouldn’t you pay anything to get it?”
Of course this was Economics 101; we never did discuss health care or meds again in higher level econ. Perhaps this was intentional, because it was never part of our texts. We never discussed what would happen if there were more than one competing drug which would keep you alive.
Which begs the question: in a so-called free market capitalist economy, where so many are screaming about excessive government intervention and socialistic protections, why is there even a five-year window offered? Why any window at all?
What they didn’t teach us in business school was that as soon as a demand curve goes vertical, competition emerges to take advantage of that situation, and the curve rapidly changes.
There should be no window at all. Only a few of us should have to answer the question, what would you pay for 1.2 or 4.7 months more…
Too many
We get numbers we have a talking point.
The argument of the large drug companies is that without being granted their monopoly, they’d have no incentive to do the research that funds new drugs. But if we’re to look at this in any kind of clear-eyed way, what they’re looking for is, in fact, that vertical curve, and a guarantee of its verticality. Again it’s socialism for the corporations, dog-eat-dog for the rest of us…
Thank you, Mr. Rodman for speaking out with so much sensitivity and vulnerability.
I advocate expanded SP Medicare for All NOW! which would release $400 billion a year from ridiculous Rube Goldberg machine overhead and fat cat exec pay to actual health CARE and research and also take out a third party corporate-sociopathic-profit-bottom-line bureaucratic making callous calls on survival of human beings. And treat health care as a civil and human right.
What a deaf Congress and Prez we have and apparently a deaf citizenry, yet we all have loved ones in our networks going through what your dear Anne and your family has had to go through.
But the tax-supported research is by universities usually, and the drug companies come in after the heavy thinking is done to do mass distribution and score with the patents. Talk about advantage taking.
Bet if we stepped on their monopoly and greed with competition they would still be around.
Yes. This is the real question. The drug and insurance companies succeed as long as they keep us distracted with minutiae and not questioning the basic principles. The principle under which they operate is as one economist described to me, “the science of scarcity.” They set the price by selling something that is essential for life and is scarce. That is not a free market.with buyers comparing product, prices or just how much he wants it.
It has already been determined in a number of cases e.g. utilities, that goods and services essential for life are not appropriate for high profit margin shareholder corporations.
Those operating in health insurance, pharmaceuticals, and appliances now are nothing more than criminals running mafia style protection rackets.
Please expand on the hows of this point?
Well the CW figure that shows up from google is 45k per year dying from lack of health insurance. Which does not account for under-insured (but probably does include those who hit annual or lifetime caps )
Exactly.
Thanks now we have some numbers.:)
Boner meds have more than doubled in price since they were introduced, and of course most of them also have “tweaks” like 36-hour Ci@lis and everyday Ci@lis that allow re-up on the patent, without letting generic drugs onto the market.
I hadn’t had reason to know that. Wow. Thanks.
Ewwwwww….
If 45K are dying just think of the people who are not dead yet but are suffering. Ron has no insurance and he has gout, gerd, peripheral neuropathy, diabetes and heart disease. The pharmacy has cut him a great deal on his meds but he sure needs help with things like new lifts and special shoes. He cannot walk very far without significant pain. Times him by thousands. One of the reasons we aren’t in the streets demanding change is because we are too forkin’ sick to get there.
My point being that if the drug companies mistreat their “recreational” customers’ drug needs this badly, imagine how badly they squeeze customers who need drugs to live.
36 hours boners? (sorry, I couldn’t help myself)
Suffering is not good.
Btw, I never heard back from you after I gave you my address.
Nice Catch it does give the Drug companies lie about prices ever getting lower.
Thank you Mr. Rodman.
And the generics are getting a lot more expensive, too. Someone is making money.
Mr. Rodman,
Thank you for sharing your wife’s story with us.
Sorry for your loss.
Okay, got it. I was just wondering about why so many people think they need those drugs. Doesn’t the demand drive the market?
It’s a deep well question. The first one, not the latter.
I am so saddened to hear of your loss, Mr. Rodman. I am a 57 year old attorney diagnosed in September of this year with stage III B lung cancer. I am currently going through chemotherapy as the first round of treatment, and may end up facing the same decisions as you and your wife did, if the chemo and/or surgery, and/or radiation does not work. Luckily I am covered by health insurance as well, but that does not make these choices any easier particularly as they come during probably the highest stress point in anyone’s life. This is not caring for the patient, this is caring for profits. It is tragedy beyond comprehension.
I am in awe that you can write so well and humanely after what you must have gone through. Best of wishes to you for the future.
I am going to send you a book soon as I order some more. :) Thought it would be sooner than this.
i’m so sorry to hear of your diagnosis. dayam
Hi Moe, it’s great to see you here, and I am saddened to hear your news.
Thank you for sharing your personal journey. I remember talking with a medical person at Mayo during my husband’s last days there [CLL which transformed acute]. She expressed the same horror I felt about the high cost of cancer drugs…for no good reason except to line the pockets of Big Pharma.
My condolences for your loss. I know this pain.
Imagine an America where everyone like Ron gets the meds they need and goes back to work? The GOP never points out the benefits of healthcare for everyone to the total economy.
I am so sorry for your loss Mr. Rodman. Thank you for sharing your story with us.
The GOP is not logical, smart or moral.
Jane posted So What Does Jay Inslee Think You Deserve For Your Enbrel Investment? about two weeks ago on the subject of government funding drug research.
hang in counselor. always welcome here. don’t be strange.
Thanks, K-town.
Its the rest of America we need to educate :) the 20%ers not a chance.
(((((moe99))))) Sorry to hear about your diagnosis. Keep us posted please.
S’okay. I just have a problem up here with gittin’ mail and hoped I hadn’t offended you by not returning a big hug. Really. Took me a while to get the nerve to ask.
((Mare-Mare))
You can ask me anything, anytime, darlin’.
My best wishes to you as well. My thoughts are with you.
Mr Rodman,
Thank you so much for the post. I really appreciate what you have to say and want to extend my sympathies. You are a very focused and compassionate man.
Mr. Rodman, I am so sorry for your loss and also grateful for your essay.
I can relate. My husband died about 5 years ago after 4 years of intensive treatment for a rare form of lymphoma. At that point in time, the so-called biologics were still in experimental stage and with a few exceptions the only way to get them was to sign up for a clinical trial. I can’t count the hours I spent on the phone with the clinical directors of various pharma companies to see if he might be eligible for one or two of those trials. In general the response was that his clinical profile was too anomalous to qualify. In the end, the treatment that kept him alive for the last few years was regular infusions of blood and plasma donated by kind souls around the county. That in itself was more expensive than we could have afforded if not for a reasonable health insurance policy.
Now it seems that BigPharma charges what the market will bear, especially when it comes down to cancer treatments, and that means unscrupulous taking advantage of desperate patients and their families. No one says that treatment x, whatever it is, will extend your life for one or two months; they hold out the hope that you will fall into the 1-2% who recover and live a few more years.
I hope I don’t seem too cynical.
You are not being cynical but are being reasonable. You have hard core experience that dictates your point of view.
Well, I don’t have pharma details in particular ready for you, TCU. Sorry,
Except, well, pre-2003 Bushco tweaking, there was the right to negotiate pricing in Medicare but it lost that (the VA plan which still has the negotiation right is so much more cost efficient than even Medicare, I think it might be 55% to Medicare’s spending (and with Advantage and Med D plans in Medicare which are friendlier to pharma). I need to check on what the House Bill is doing exactly with this. It has made an effort for this, but I need to catch up on what exactly, again sorry.
But generally, with Med for All, premium-escalation doesn’t enable the haves and leave out the have nots.
With money ($400 bn) going directly into health care and not bureaucracy and fat cat salaries (Helmsley at UnitedHealth makes $57,000 a day!!! due to earn more after 2013 I would wager) also people have more preventive care, earlier detection, doctors and nurses that spend less time in front of computers dealing with all sorts of forms and more at bedsides, maybe more monitoring of not sensible or patient-empathy patterns of doctors. They say most malpractice happens with a handful of doctors who simply keep getting away with BAD medicine since regulation, here, too, is non-existent.
And the uneven payment of doctors, the specialists who get more money the more tests they run and experiments they do as opposed to primary care physicians who now must overwork and overschedule for a lot less pay, so that there is now a shortage of primary care physicians. And just maybe communication is enhanced within the health care community and everyone is not being controlled and driven by incessant profits profits profits by the VENDORS, for heaven’s sake. And there will be more sharing of facilities and specialization which is cost efficient and enhances quality of health care.
It costs doctors alone $95 billion a year on their paperwork.
And more and more staffing is for insurance analyzers rather than CARE-oriented personnel. And with 1990 new pages of convoluted rule-making, think of all the new clerical jobs in the industry to figure out the hidden loopholes for corporations.
Damn. Here’s a hope for you that your story has a happier ending. Or at least manages to delay that ending for a couple more decades at least.
Good job:) Is anyone in politics talking about getting this savings?
Second that.
Thirded:)
Viagra and acne medication. Hmmm. It will be interesting to hear how you chose to ridicule those two patient populations.
Why do you hate prostatectomy survivors so much that you would deny them their sexuality, and exactly how disfigured SHOULD a tennager have to be to warrant the use of prescription drugs?
Are you aware that the effects of PDE5 inhibitors (like viagra) were discovered during a search for drugs to treat pulmonary hypertension, cardiovascular disease and inflammation? Please see J Clin Invest. 1996 Jan 1;97(1):172-9 and J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1996 Sep;278(3):1356-61.
You might also want to look into the early uses of Accutane, an acne treatment worthy of your derision. You could start here: Lancet. 1976 Nov 27;2(7996):1172-4, but I can save you some time and tell you that the article is about disfiguring skin diseases.
Hugs to you and Howard. I cannot imagine the strength this must take.
I lost a comment to the ether. Seems like maybe some others did too.
Mod in the house?
I was asking Mary to dance.
Just curious, why is it the drug companies doing the squeezing? What makes you think Pfizer or Lilly have any idea what specific condition you or anyone else has? I think your bile should be directed at least as much at the insurance industry.
They don’t set their price on the basis of development costs. It is set on the basis of how scarce they can keep it and how many people will die or suffer without it.
30-35 years ago I did government funded Phase II and Phase III studies on many of the drugs still in use. Two still in many many standard protocols are Adriamycin and Cytoxan. I promise you what little Pharmacia and Bristol-Myers Squibb put into research and development has long ago been recouped. This is true for the generics also.
btw I think it is a disgrace how few new therapies have been developed in recent years.
Thought there was another related post at FDL around the same time, but I can’t find it.
It’s an excellent question that deserves much more attention.
Next week, I’m finally going to speak with Rob Miller, 2010 Democratic candidate for SC-02, and I intend to ask him about his views on the production of generic “biosimilar” versions of life-saving “biologic” drugs and specifically about his views on Rep. Anna Eshoo’s “evergreening” problem.
From what I read in his post, Broken Politics, at HuffPost (Sept 14, 2009), I have a very good idea how he’ll answer me:
Comments are sometimes moderated to keep a thread from going badly off-topic.
Thank you so much for being here today and telling this story, Howard. You have been so supportive both personally and to FDL over the years. Our heart goes out to you.
This is just not true. What happens in a single payer system like England’s or New Zealand’s is that the high cost of these drugs mean they are never approved for use.
Until costs come down, these drugs can break the system so they aren’t available to anyone.
It’s the pharmaceutical corporations. The insurance industry of course has plenty to answer for also. But in my view the flaw for them is more to do with being corporations and extracting 30% profits.
See my #42 and #86
Lurk! You have got to be kidding me. A Friday nite? And you’re going to mod some love?
Okay. But, thanks, for telling me.
Oh, I see. The boss is here. Bye.
That is true.
What happens is that the drug companies come in with late money to do FDA testing for uses that will be lucrative. So, if you have a rare kind of cancer that can be treated by a particular biologic, your doctor will never be able to prescribe it and it won’t be covered (even by Medicare).
With conventional drugs doctors have a lot of latitude in what they can prescribe. But with biologics, because of the cost, the approved use is very narrowly interpreted to keep the financial burden from overloading the system (any system).
So say you have cancer in your small intestines but the drug the doctor thinks would be best for you is approved for colon cancer, it won’t be covered until the FDA approves it for that use too. And if it’s never lucrative to pay for FDA testing, they never will.
So sorry for your loss Mr. Rodman. You are brave to share your story so soon.
I know that if faced with this my response would be to save the money unless it was going to buy me years not months. That is due to my practical upbringing by depression era parents.
I read a story the other day about how many billions the drug companies rake in by encouraging off label use of their drugs even though it is illegal because the uses have not been okayed by the FDA. It is infuriating because they apologize, pay the fine and just keep doing it, even when they know that they are putting people at risk. Don’t ever think that these companies have an interest in curing or saving you. Their only interest is making money.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a4yV1nYxCGoA&pos=10
that is one of the reasons we need to build or rebuild much wider collaborative research program that is taxpayer funded. The less well studied and less often useful drugs can be made available through research protocols avoiding the cost of FDA etc. All benefit, patients get the treatment and data on their use is more quickly accumulated and integrated. In my years conducting programs, contrary to the Gina Kolata article, I found most patients and families more than willing to volunteer and follow the protocol requirements. Many Many simply because they knew it would help others.
demi lets take this discussion off this thread and talk about it here
Scarcity drives drug pricing? Do you really think that this problem can be reduced to the level of a high school econ class describing “supply and demand”?
All too often, Jane and other bloggers and many FDL commenters like you reduce themselves to this rather embarrassing level of discourse. I appreciate that cancer touches deep nerves, and elicits primal fears, but one thing I respect about progressives, especially those here, is that reason tends to win out over blind passion and raw anger. The topic of cancer and its treatment is a notable exception around here.
There are certainly much-needed changes due in the drug reimbursement arena, but demonizing people and creating an us-versus-them environment is no path to a solution.
Kucinich, Massa, Sanders. :) sigh
I will ignore your uninformed sneering comment.
Yes that is precisely what capitalism by Rand as practiced by the masters of Wall Street is today. Btw the term came from a former high level Treasury.dept. economist.
I chose to use it because it is simple.
Of course it is more complex. for another facet. See my #96
Which demons are responsible for the “medicare donut hole”. Our $60/month prescription went to $600/month. Who pays you to pimp for these thieves?
Hi Jane,
I hope you’ve read some of my previous comments on biologics (and that one day you will add a “search comments” function to the blog). Things are rarely as simple as many on the left are making them regarding this topic, and I hope you at least keep your ears open for reasonable discussions regarding this important new class of drugs.
Howard,
I am so sorry for your loss, having lost loved ones to cancer myself, I know I can’t say much to offer true comfort besides assuring you that your memories and time will indeed bring you comfort one day.
Mr. Rodman,
Thank you again for sharing your wife’s story. We should always be mindful of the people whose lives have been and will be touched so immediately by the decisions that are made in Congress.
pimping? thanks for upping the level of discourse.
FWIW: from an earlier diary I did:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/8336
From the post:
Sorry for asking what might seem like a stupid question, but I’m trying to figure out whether or not the Eshoo PhRMA-driven language is now part of H R 3962.
I didn’t think so, then realized I’m not sure.
Anyone know for sure?
TalkingStick, please inform us all exactly where the lead compounds for those mythical clinical trials will be found. At academic medical centers like MDA?
Have you dealt with a med school tech transfer office lately? Government funded biomedical research is Big Business, and pretending otherwise won’t make it any more egalitarian. Universities lather up over patents and royalties just like Big Pharma.
yes, it is.
FYI:
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/october/the_singlepayer_alt.php
Dr. Andy Coates, member of Physicians for a National Health Program and co-chair of Single Payer New York:
And she accomplished this from her position on Waxman’s committee?
Honestly, between Waxman seeming to call her out on it in committee and her obvious defensiveness at HuffPost in responding to you about it (suggesting that she was afraid that she was losing the battle) – also, the news that Sen. Brown had gotten bipartisan support in the Senate to block this before H R 3962 passed – I thought Eshoo was losing her battle to achieve whatever she thinks she’s achieving.
What are the chances that the final legislation will include a fix for this problem too? What is the best approach for us to help make sure it’s fixed, if any?
Last week my wife was diagnosed with stage 4 breast cancer. It’s incurable, but there are treatments to maintain life and quality of life for a few years, maybe many years. We may find ourselves with similar choices to Mr Rodman, but our insurance is also solid. I work in the pharmaceutical industry, and I know we are lucky.
It’s easy to blame pharma companies for charging too much. However, these drugs would never be developed if there were no profit in it. Public funding plays a small role in drug development, usually very early in the process. Pharmaceutical companies risk billions to develop new drugs. They also make billions, but success for a particular drug is a long shot. Consider:
- If an innovator does all the research and then another company comes in and makes money on the drug without doing research, there is no incentive for anyone to do the research.
- The generics model for simple chemical drugs simply won’t ensure safety or efficacy for biologicals. See the wiki entry below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosimilar
- These drugs really are expensive to manufacture, so the costs will be high even with competition.
I want science-based medicines available for everyone. How we can do this and not drive costs skywards? This is valid question we need to answer, but if we take away the incentive to do research, we’ll have no additional medicines to worry about paying for.
Yep the universities and also the academic and private researchers are pretty well corrupted by the rivers of money and delusions of grandeur.
At the expense of offending your sensibilities with my simplicity: Take the excess profits out and focus research funding on collaborative research and it may start to get a little better.
I am so sorry to know of your personal tragedy and wish the best possible for you.
You say:
I really don’t agree with this. I do realize it is Reagan talk that has become conventional wisdom, particularly for those in the corporate world.
In fact several of the more common agents still in use were developed in an entirely different atmosphere. I was there. We didn’t always believe wealth and selfishness are the highest virtues and sole motivation for happiness.
Addendum. I failed to address the funding of research. We lost the way and began seeing $100,000 drug bills when we gave over more responsibility to the private sector. A rebuilding and expansion of the government funded research will I believe see a beginning decline in pricing.
It will be a great loss if we continue with this system.
Gregg Levine is upstairs…
Late Night: Elephants on Parade
“It will be a great loss if we continue with this system.”
A point on which we can agree completely.
http://www.nber.org/reporter/fall06/danzon.html
so sorry Neillos.
Mr Rodman, I’m so sorry you’ve had reason to write this powerful post. My condolences on your and your family’s grievous loss.
Many of the oncology professionals I served as a consultant called PhRMA “the racket”: mandatory monopolies with Federal enforcers.
Jane’s written about exactly what those academc oncologists all knew: the for-profit PhRMA research piggy-backs upon public sector research dollars.
Whole lotta those ac onc docs repeated the same theme: The Reagan Admin openly admitted the Admin intended to constrict Federal biomed funding growth in order to increase for profit ownership of public research.
Big PhRMA’s fantastically lucrative position as biomed’s finishing school for a tiny minority of molecules ultimately derived from our Federal public research isn’t a bug.
It’s a very heavily lobbied-for feature.
I am so very sorry to hear of your wife’s diagnosis, and I wish her and you and your family the very best.
Completely agree.
And now to dinner.
Dr. Murphy,
Thank you for your insight on this topic.
Would you mind looking at the comment @ 111 by Neillos. I believe he deserves as many perspectives and informed opinions on the issues he raises as possible.
Thank you.
@90, Jane, what is not true? My assumption that some of $400 billion of released overhead money with Single Payer Med for All could possibly go to research?
mr. rodman, my condolences on the very recent loss of your wife and also my thanks for your efforts in helping jane to fight the hagen & eshoo language. your kind consideration for others in the midst of your own loss is an inspiration.
Thank God there were once noble and virtuous people in drug development.
Pray tell, which “more common agents still in use” were developed in this fantasy world of which you speak? Arsenicals? Laudinum? Gentian Violet? Oh, for the days of A.W. Hoffman…
Thank you for the affirmation.
Being there is either corrupting or purifying. I continue to believe there is more purity but corruption is gaining.
Red or white wine?
I too am sorry to hear about your wife’s condition and wish her, you and your family well.
I think the issue raised in Howard Rodman’s post regarding biologic drugs as treatment for cancer partly addresses your concerns:
Beyond TalkingStick’s assertion @ 114 that rebuilding and expanding government funded research will lead to a decline in pricing, I think that Mr. Rodman’s point is even more central in regard to the legislation that is currently moving through Congress.
What Mr. Rodman calls “Hagen/Eshoo PhRMA-driven language” in the legislation I think refers to what is more commonly called “evergreening.”
In other words, while it is true that the companies that develop new kinds of medicines do so in order to profit, the Hagen/Eshoo PhRMA-driven language grants those companies a 12-year monopoly on their products (more than twice the length of time for other types of medicines) and gives them the ability to easily make slight changes to the indicated dosage of the medicine or make some other small change and extend the monopoly beyond the 12 years, potentially forever, thus “evergreening.”
As I understand it, while it is nice that these companies would make profits far beyond the wildest dreams of avarice, there are 2 problems:
A) generic versions will never get made and so the life-saving medicines would never become available to many more people;
and,
B) allowing companies to profit forever from the products they have already developed actually would most likely be a disincentive to them continuing to develop newer and better products in order to remain innovative.
i think both erbitux and avastin are covered by medicare (please correct me if i’m wrong on that). the situation in england and new zealand is not due to their method of financing, but rather their decision to spend so much less per capita on healthcare. if medicare covers a treatment, i don’t see any reason why an expanded and improved medicare for all (ie single payer as in hr 676) would not as well.
amen. thank you!
libby, the money freed up you mention re hr 676 single payer (expanded and improved medicare for all) would go primarily to providing healthcare for those without insurance, for those who are underinsured and for first dollar coverage (no premiums, no copays, no deductibles, no coinsurance) for all.
so, i’d expect the expensive treatments discussed here would be covered under most circumstances, but imo we’d still need to change our patent law. it’s a giant rip off whoever pays for it and even if we had something like hr 676 here our patent laws would continue to kill people outside the usa. also, our patent laws (as well as ip laws) distort research priorities and impede scientific progress. my 2 cents is they need to go.
Hi selise!
Not trying to provoke you, but is there any possibility of getting the House to vote on H R 676? Is there any way that you can see to go from the dance currently going on in the Senate to a place where the Senators would vote on a Senate version of H R 676? Do you see any way to take H R 3962, which has passed the House, and whatever Baucus-lite bullshit or whatever that comes out of the Senate and merge them in conference in such as way that the result would be single payer?
I’m just not sure that continuing to push for Medicare for All makes sense, simply because it doesn’t seem to be on the table any more.
“public funding plays a small role?”
Well, consider the case of Enbrel. Despite claims that the drug company spent $1.2 billion to develop it, that’s just not true. Early development was paid for by taxpayer funds. The company never spent more than $400 million, which KEI documented. Most of it in late marketing stage costs — money that qualified for 50% tax subsidies.
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/02/so-what-does-jay-inslee-think-you-deserve-for-your-enbrel-investment/
If you’re in the pharmaceutical business you also know that the complexity of biologics manufacturing would preclude most competition, which is why the FTC recommended “zero” years of exclusivity.
“covered under most circumstance”
Why would drugs which are not approved by FDA for a particular use be treated any differently under Medicare than they would under H.R. 676? As I’ve mentioned before, John Conyers’ office doesn’t believe that the bill would affect either FDA approval or Medicare coverage for use outside of it.
I’ll dig up what Dr. Anthony So wrote me about the situation, but if you have a particular section of H.R. 676 which you believe would cause Medicare to treat coverage of these drugs any differently than they do now, I will be happy to run it by everyone.
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-platform/published-editorials/2009/11/costly-new-drugs-a-crisis-for-one-family-a-quandry-for-us/
Costly new drugs: A crisis for one family, a quandry for U.S.
The Callahans both have good jobs and health insurance. Stacy works for a credit union. Dan is the head baseball coach at Southern Illinois University-Carbondale.
Their insurance paid for minor surgery to remove the little black spot from Mr. Callahan’s lip. It paid for more extensive surgery in April, when doctors removed the right side of his jaw trying to stop the cancer’s spread.
And it paid for yet another operation in September, when infection forced doctors to remove the prosthetic device they had implanted to replace his missing jaw.
But Mr. Callahan’s insurance won’t pay for Avastin.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved Avastin in 2004 to treat advanced colon cancer. Since then, it has been cleared for breast and lung cancers. Doctors are free to prescribe it for other forms of cancer. It is being tried on 30 other cancers, including melanoma, but those uses technically are experimental.
Because many experimental treatments don’t pan out, insurance companies in Illinois and most other states do not have to cover them. The major health care bills pending in Congress would not change that. For the first time, they allow generic versions of so-called biologic drugs like Avastin. But only after 12 years on the market, twice as long as other drugs.
please see my comment @128. i don’t see why they would be. in fact today and in our previous discussion i have used medicare coverage as a proxy for what we might expect with hr 676. i looked up both drugs in the medicare formulary to see if they appeared to be covered before i wrote either comment to you or to libby because i think medicare is a much better example of what we might likely expect than either new zealand or england.
i’m not provoked at all. but your question deserves more than i can give it right now (exhausted and must sleep soon). if you will forgive me and have some patience with me i’ll try to come back to this thread (or find you on an other) so we can have that conversation. would that be ok?
selise,
I don’t mean to distract from a discussion about the merits of H R 676 and what it would or would not cover, but I’ve been looking again at info on this legislation and I can’t find any reference to anything happening with it since it was first introduced in committee near the end of January.
Is this something that, during the 111th Congress, can become law or become part of the legislation currently working its way toward final version?
If not, it seems to me that the goals should be to support efforts like getting the Stupak Amendment out of and changing the Eshoo language in the final version.
I totally agree. I’m feeling exhausted too. I’ll look back to this thread tomorrow (or find you on another). g’nite.
i’m not disagreeing in the slightest with the need to change patent law (or whatever the specific law in this case is) for the better. i completely support that.
i did disagree with using the uk or new zealand instead of medicare as the best predictor of what hr 676 could be expected to cover and that if medicare covers a treatment now, in the hypothetical case of hr 676 everyone would likely be covered without having to worry of out of pocket expenses or access to private insurance or private insurance denial of care. it’s same main point i was making in our previous discussion. that is all.
thanks! you have great questions and i look forward to discussing them.
good night!
…
A few that come to mind, adriamycin, cytoxan, 5-FU, cisplatin, vinca alkaloids, actinomycin D, hydroxyurea, methotrexate.
The larger point is that the conceptual framework that you and indeed what our current culture operates on (competition for money) is what needs to change.
If it is so effective why are we falling behind the rest of the world in almost every area of endeavor including how long we keep our people alive?
The story of Taxol provides a good overview of the subject. Consider first:
http://www.rmi.gsu.edu/rmi/faculty/klein/RMI_3500/Readings/Other/Drugs_GovResearch.htm
How does it work?
If one has the time to read a long account describing the interplay between federally funded research efforts, academic institution licensing and research efforts, and industry licensing and subsequent research efforts, I highly recommend this link.
http://www.rinr.fsu.edu/fall2002/taxol.html
Yes this represents the shifting of policy to favor profits for private pharmaceuticals. But that is the American way. Whether gold or oil or timber; our government turn it over to selected capitalists. Thus we give away the resources of the people
The government could hold the patents to drugs and through grants farm out as necessary to non profit academic institutions for the pharmacological research and perhaps contract out the technology of productions methods to private companies. The Reagan philosophy was a mix of Rand and Brit 18-19th century imperialism..
What has to change is the notion that profiteering from the basic human rights needs is just dandy. Life sustaining commodities are not comparable to monogrammed skate boards.
Adriamycin, invented in Italy, by a Pharma, 1950′s. 5-FU, invented in Switzerland, by a Pharma, 1950′s. Hydroxyurea, synthesized 1869, first used in cancer treatment more than 50 years ago. Methotrexate, 1940′s. Cyclophosphamide, first used widely as chemical warfeare agent in WWI, for cancer in the 1950′s.
I’m not seeing how these examples support your points regarding profits and novel drug discovery.
Howard–
Your piece was forwarded by our mutual friend. I’m so sorry for your loss.
I give you a lot of credit for mobilizing to write about this topic. When I’m more awake I’ll write more, but I think the “answer” is simple. We need to ask ourselves as a nation, Is there some point at which the discrepancy between individuals or businesses (that make huge profits) and ordinary citizens (who cannot afford things they need) is so great that we will label it obscene or unacceptable? If we answer Yes, the next question is, Will we find a way to regulate it?
Other countries have ‘voted with their feet’. i.e. figuring out ways to produce, for example, antiretrovirals. They faced scary retribution, but, I submit, may have set a valuable example.
Peace, Evelina