Yes indeed. What our big strong, brave manly men of the right seem best at is pants pissing.

There is no telling just what the war-mongers are afraid of, but their legacy of ignorance and brutality is a candidate.

This is threatening to the republicks war machine. It always cracks me up how the republicks puff out their chests and talk so tough, yet when it was their turn to go to war they ran like the chicken shit, cowardly bastards they are.

They have to keep up that rhetoric to make sure all teh stoopidz in the land (and there are plenty) don’t forget that WE ARE AT WAR. Notice that was the mantra repeated by all.

WE ARE AT WAR. WE ARE AT WAR. WE ARE AT WAR.

See, you repeat it, then folks don’t blink an eye when you don’t have dollars for health care but you can find trillions to WAGE WAR. BECAUSE WE ARE AT WAR.

What a group….As Molly Ivins said about Cornyn: “He’s a good looking son of a bitch.” Enough said

Just to extend the thought, I would love to believe that this is the way ObamaCo has chosen to expose Bush’s deeds – in open court, in New York City.
I remain hopeful and skeptical.

The Bedwetter Caucus

The democrats need to highlight the chickenshittery. Unfortunately, Jim Webb has fallen. The oh-so-tough military guy.

Well, except for the good-looking part.

I like the contrast between the Republican reaction to holding the trials in NYC (OMG! WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE! THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH!) and that of New Yorkers (Meh.).

Playground bullies.

Indeed. They talk tough, but run at the first sign of trouble.

1984

The Rs don’t want all those dirty people in their nice clean country s/

I maintained for years that the Rs aren’t just chicken hawks, they’re also chicken shits. I used to think it was just a pose to scare Joe Sixpack into voting R, but I gradually came to think that they’re just plain cowards in every way, shape & form.

Ha! That’s what I said about my ex. His mother was a bitch.

I heard David Brooks arguing on the News Hour that trying KSM would be a propaganda victory for the terrorists and increase the risk of another attack. Sorry Bobo, the terrorists already won back when your fellow conservatives shredded the U.S. Constitution.

About a year or two after 9/11, I noticed that non-NYCers were far more scared of terrorism than NYCers. I once asked a MNer (at a group table dinner at a ski lodge) why he was so worried about terrorism. There was this embarrassed silence at a table of about 8 or 10, as though I’d just audibly farted, me being the only Manhattanite.

I never thought of it that way. I guess we can only hope. I liked the reaction of the New Yorkers as well.

The usual tactic of the wingnuts saying exactly the opposite of the truth.

Truer words have never been written.

Not to mention Dubya’s and Darth’s award winning recruitment campaign they ran for them in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Talk about brave souls, KB Hutchison won’t give up her senate seat to run against Perry after all.

The tea-baggers are winning after all!!! tee hee.

I’m glad to hear that. I like to think that the NYers are stronger BECAUSE you weathered what you did, and the rest of the country was drinking the koolaid and could only imagine it.

As morose as that sounds…

Um, no. There is so much bragging on KSM’s part, without torture, that any jury, anywhere, would have a hard time not convicting. So KSM is the shiny object that O is using to distract attention from the tribunals to convict innocent people who would be too embarrassing to release.

Thanks.

Not to mention they’re paying off the afghans who end killing our soliders. I hear the bribes are more lucrative than even the opium(sp?) business.

Well, hold up. As an impartial potential juror, you’ve got to keep your head open.

not to mention your mind! ;)

Yeah, I should always bold and italicize my skepticism. You are right.

9/11 has nothing to do with the character of NYCers. Self-selection determines that many (not all to be sure) people end up there because they brook no bullshit. Many NYCers realize crossing the street (flashing “don’t walk” means run like hell) is more dangerous than terrorism.

That might be true, but there is no way a good defense isn’t going to bring up the treatment KSM received. During sentencing they will use it for sure.

While I still do not think they have the numbers to mount a serious campaign, this is beginning to worry me a bit. Even a small, noxious minority, emboldened by a few electoral victories (and they could easily win in Texas or Oklahoma) can cause a whole lot of havoc.

I’m totally open to what is said in court, in this case. Assuming KSM puts on a defense. There’s so much sh*t that went on that we don’t know, being in the courtroom would provide a precious window into a little bit more.

I’ve spent a lot of time wondering why the destruction of the WTC still seems so surreal to me. People living near enough to routinely see that altered skyline with their own eyes were immediately forced to confront the reality.

Correct. NYers fear not, and those who are left with the voids of imagination have it filled with… koolaid. Minnesotans cannot imagine their skyline ablaze, nor Californians, nor Alabamans. They only know what is on the ‘news’ and what their ‘leaders’ fill their heads with.

Not to prejudge (by virtue of the fact that I am potentially eligible for the jury pool), it will be interesting to see how the defense, if there is one, will handle that subject. I’d expect the prosecution to try to prevent any mention of torture from entering the courtroom, but IANAL.

They gave bin Laden everything he wanted and more. If attacked, the current president would do the same, out of political necessity if nothing else.

IANAL either but seriously how would they not bring that into this case? The guy was waterboarded more than 200 times, his children are still missing aren’t they?

Wonderful if that happens!

Yes, and that part remained surreal for years. My son came back from college in CA the following month. We took the ferry to Staten Island, which provides a continuous view of lower Manhattan, receding on the way out, and enlarging on the way back. As much as the twin towers were reviled architecturally, the rent to the skyline was profound. And lasting.

I know. It is unbelievable that these candidates are making headway, but it cannot last. Soon as NCLB ends, Americans will be educated again. A simple 10 years of stupid-down will not be successful.

We shall see.

My unfortunate collision with the “legal” system occured in the murder trial in which I was a juror, and the will contest that the grown children of my husband’s first marriage launched against me after his death. Both left a very sour taste, but both also taught me that nothing is for certain in a legal proceeding. I would never have thunk it if I hadn’t lived thru it, in two entirely different settings.

Agreed!

True. But what are the odds of you being selected? I’d love it, but really…

It would be more interesting than winning the lottery, where the odds may be similar. But I have learned that anything can happen, so let’s preserve the illusion, if that’s what it is.

I can understand how those experiences would affect you. Do you really think there is a living soul in NYC that would let these folks walk?

The evidence gathered before they began waterboarding KSM might be sufficient. I can’t imagine how anything garnered from KSM during or after the waterboarding could possibly be admissible. If the prosecution doesn’t submit any of the confessions given under duress, the defense may not have grounds to admit the torture evidence, at least not until the penalty phase.

Okay, better than winning the lottery. It will be great fun to see how this all goes down.

KSM is the shiny object that O is using to distract attention from the tribunals to convict innocent people who would be too embarrassing to release.

This is my concern as well. I would like to know what those Democrats quoted above have to say about the 5 detainees who will be tried by military commissions.

Were the children recognized as important to their father in the will? Or cut out as if they never existed?

Think I will call it an early night. Take care all.

I’d expect the prosecution to try to prevent any mention of torture from entering the courtroom

Cynthia could opine better than I but I think that is exactly the plan. Anything to do with torture will be ruled irrelevant. Federal courts have vanishingly low bars for conviction in terrorism cases. It says so much that even under those conditions the government feels it needs military commissions for some detainees.

I think that “walking” is not the right way to look at it. Process is, or at least would be, my preference. There is a VERY STRONG (shouting deliberately) preconception that the “authorities” have it right, even in independently minded NYCers. I found that out in my murder trial, where I could not convince the other 11 of “reasonable doubt” (”why would the police lie,” they countered). Still the small probability of an unpredictable outcome makes the experiment worth trying. In the most probable case (from what we know now), KSM gets convicted on admissable evidence. No problem there. If prosecution screws up, a more interesting outcome is possible.

Hello firepups!

Nice post Gregg. I have always thought interesting the backwards labeling of facts.

“Pansies” are some of the toughest flowers around. Frost, heat, whatever, they just keep going.

As a gay person, I’ve always worn that epithet with honor. Cause I keep going too.

So to these chest-beating-knuckle-dragging-elephant-faux-warriors I say “BOO!”

I’ve just been through a similar experience settling my mother’s estate. 3 heirs in complete agreement, the other trying to get more than his fair share. The first attorney for the estate might as well have been working for the contesting party. Finally found a good attorney who got it wrapped up fairly quickly. Still had to pay the first incompetent hack, unfortunately.

I recently had my will drawn up and placed my property in a trust with the intended heirs as trustees. Best to avoid that whole probate business if possible.

Oh, will contests are such cliche human events. My personal situation included emotional context that made the first brood think I was guilty (suicide aggrivated by me). They were included in the will, but at far lesser amounts than they imagined their powerful personality father had indicated he was worth.

Nighters, DrDick.

If he were found innocent, there wouldn’t be one second of the day that he wasn’t followed by arms-bearing special agents of some sort.

My side of the family is reasonable in every way. My late husband’s family, some of whom I love dearly (not the sons from his first marriage) is quite another story.

RF hunny! You’re still up! Good to see you.

WTF? I can’t grow pansies to save my soul.

Understand. The authorities are NOT always right. Not by a long shot. I see what you’re getting at.

Hi Kelly. Denver snowed in yet?

If prosecution screws up, a more interesting outcome is possible.

I don’t think so. If you remember back to the Moussaoui and Padilla cases,the prosecutors were clowns and the cases they presented were painfully ill-prepared (Moussaoui) and weak (Padilla), but they got convictions anyway.

Don’t think the govt would bring the case if they thought a “not guilty” verdict were within the realm of possibilty. Just sayin’ that just ’cause govt thinks so, doesn’t necessarily make it so.

Sorry about that! I’m dealing with a father who may leave everything to his elderly wife such that her goof-ball daughter will pleasure in all that we did without as kids. You know. Also an ex who may leave everything to his wife so that his own offspring will watch their ’steps’ enjoy stuff that they did without in their growing up during the in-gathering years. It’s a mine field…..and someone gets hurt.

Yer kidding me! I put a bowl of them out in late March here in Denver, and they go like bejeesus, frost, snow, 70 degrees, and back again, whatever. Really.

Tough as nails. Which always makes me giggle.

Thanks. The PTB are so overwhelming, that I find myself looking for ways that the system might possibly thwart them. There ain’t a whole heck of a lot.

Nah, only 2 inches at my house, so far.

Tomorrow could be interesting though. :)

CA can burn itself down quite well, thank you very much. We don’t need outside help. (And a lot of the country wishes we would.)

I’m not certain if it was Holder or someone else I heard earlier saying there is no chance of KSM being released. If acquitted they will file other charges. They probably have a list sufficient to keep him incarcerated for life even if he is acquitted in each successive trial. I’m guessing there is no applicable statute of limitations.

Probably a moot point anyway since they will convict him of something sooner or later.

Are you talking with a lawyer?

Even if they did run out of things to try him on, they’d probably pull a bush and just hold him because….

I’ll never forget when Bush Sr. spent a billion dollars and bulldozed a thousand Panamanians into mass graves in pursuit of Manuel Noriega and then nearly blew the court case. Back when a billion dollars still seemed like a lot of money.

My personal opinion, and that of my late husband, is that no parent owes anything to an adult child upon the parent’s death. It’s not the kid’s money, and the parent can dispose of it anyway he or she wants. In my case, my son was 5 when his father offed himself, so I thought there should be some responsibility of him toward his minor son, and as I was appointed executrix in the will, duh. That didn’t prevent the adult sons of the first marriage from filing 11 lawsuits against me. Settled after 5 years, with some mild strong arming from the judge, and, finally, after 2 abortive tries, a lawyer for me who actually stood up for me.

About what? And, I am a lawyer. And men get to give away whatever they want. If someone gets hurt…well, that’s life.

One of the more bizarre moments in U.S. history, but not the only one.

“the sky is falling, the sky is falling”

This reminds me of the hype about Gitmo prisoners on US soil which Prez and Congresspeople seriously respect and honor. The media and the shock jocks RULE. Such paranoia. Less than 200 left at Gitmo, and people who have been caged for many many years and tortured and some (most?) undoubtedly innocent, given the track record of Bushco, and yet God forbid these psychologically and physically illegally tortured and broken by us without habaes corpus or a trial are the bogeymen that bring up the spectre of fear for the supporters of illegal torture.

Maybe it is the projected vacuum of where a conscience should be, that is terrifying the Republican knee-jerk jerks.

I also think seeking the death penalty is stupid. Denying him martyrdom would be smart and probably (in KSM’s opinion) the greater punishment.

Powering down. Splendid evening to all.

Absolutely, KSM should rot in jail.

nite rat.

With KSM, it is a moot point. But Obama has said that he reserved the right to detain prisoners indefinitely even if found not guilty.

Perhaps your husband’s older sons were just jerks. I am particularly fond of my daughter’s husband because as an older man, he took out special insurance so that his older son would receive something from him. He also took out insurance so that his younger sons, my daughter’s baby boys, would be cared for. I think that we are all in this together and that there is a kind of hurt that comes from a parent dissing a kid, even an adult one. No point in causing hurt, I think.

It’s not just men.

My mother legally disowned me when I came out, and threw me out of the house. 20 years later, when I was a paralegal, I helped her restore a lawsuit in a bad tire case (it was a retread, sold as new, and it de-treaded, she ended up with terrible injuries.) She prevailed on a million dollar verdict.

She died 2 years later. No spouse or anything, and intestate. Just my brother and myself as heirs; except, she never un-disowned me.

Point is, gender notwithstanding, people of all kinds suck.

Some people just are unredeemable(sp.). Hope your brother had the sense to share 50-50. I’ve tried to make sure my girls get whatever equitably….and that if I mess up in paperwork that they will make sure it’s 50-50. Most of the people I know suffered their parents, so to speak.

Of course my late husband’s older sons were jerks. But I understood the case completely from their POV: I had broken up the happy family (he was married when our affair started), I had tricked him into having another son who severely impeded their inheritances, I was responsible for his suicide since they thought of him as a powerful, healthy male, and, adding insult to injury, I was now appointed executrix to the estate, which was MUCH less than their father had lead them to believe. My understanding their POV did not do me much good until I fired a couple of lawyers and happened on one (a close friend of my husband’s in college) who told me I was not crazy, they were, and I should simply fight them. That, and a half-sentient judge, was what resulted in the “compromise” after 5 years. Otherwise, it would still be going on, more than 20 years later.

My final (last of 3) lawyer informed me that my case made the summer circuit where NYS judges appear at something like a seminar to have their decisons critiqued. Nothing could have been further from reality to have any dispute about Judge Traficanti’s decision. If anything, he was a whimp. There was NO other side than mine.

Sorry to hear your story. But I still maintain that parents’ money is theirs to dispose of, regardless of how hurtful that may be to heirs.

Sense? Brothers? You have to be kidding! /snark

Look, that was all about 13 years ago, and I knew at that point to just forget about it. Weird, but true, I don’t really care about money. I care about causes and relationships that I participate in, and forge. Because those things NEVAH let me down. They spring from within, and are part of me.

The rest is so much dross.

I’ll never be rich in money, and I am totally fine with that. I am totally rich in wellbeing, and that is something that many people really don’t have. I wouldn’t trade the satisfaction that I have, doing what I do, being who I am, for anything.

Dood, I blog in my own name without fear of retribution, outing, retaliation, and say whatever the hell I want.

And I make a damn fine fucking apple pie.

Well, about men, I think that if abortions are illegal, so should vasectomies be. I just can’t stand the thought of all those baby sperm being butchered.

Kelly I’m so sorry about your mom. That’s rough. There was a post on boing boing last night about an anonymous gay kid whose parents grounded him and cut him off from the internet when they found him posting on Myspace that he was gay. He’s 13. The posts from the people in the community are wonderful, but it is still said that in this day and age people are still so horrid to their offspring. Here’s the link

It’s amazing that these people who when trying to get Clinton, said we must live up to the, RULE OF LAW,” with every other sentence. Now none of them trust our laws, justice system, or the Constitution.

There aught to be a LAW that the Republicans must be the silent minority, FOREVER.

OlD McCain says He just can’t understand why they would do this.

He’s so old He probably He probably can’t understand why He can’t wear His pants with the cuffs around His waist instead of His ancles. He’s so old dirt is younger than Him. He could have saved the Dinosaurs but they wouldn’t listen to Him either. He probably thinks He should have been President if people would have only lived by age before beauty. Gee drums of viagra are so expensive. He probably is still sharp as a tack when He’s sleeping, it’s thsoe waking hours that are hard for an old guy. Do they have a Senate in heaven, and is time served considered there. Oh shit those farts are juicy at His age. Or maybe they can back up that’s why he talks so much shit.

OMG. Did your brother share?

Greg, who the flock cares what the GOP and the 23% whackaloons think?

The prosecution of 911 detainees progresses, slow, fast, with rightousness or without.

So what?

Should they get a fair trial? YES!

Has USA imprisoned and tortured innocent folks? I DON’T KNOW!

Do we have in custody anyone tied to 911? PROSECUTE THEM!

The rest?

Pure bullshit, racist, cultural and religious biased, and until we get out of foreign lands and stop killing them there, the civilians, we won’t EVER stop being a target here.

I fail to see the value of your posit.

Apple pie rocks!

See my 90.

Dispose of your money as you like. Who can argue with that? I’m not.

But you’ll pardon me if I objected to being disposed of as a child. And if you read closely, you’ll observe I forgave.

Doesn’t mean I don’t remember.

I see that Kelly and I share yet another thing. Apple pie baking!
Woot!

It’s amazing that these people who when trying to get Clinton, said we must live up to the, RULE OF LAW,” with every other sentence. Now none of them trust our laws, justice system, or the Constitution.

Having captured and turned the OLC, ChimpCo hoped to cover themselves with legality for their practices. They STILL maintain that because of those blessings, they did not act illegally.

So if Bill Clinton had only gotten permission to mislead during the Paula Jones deposition in advance, he would be covered…

Yep. On all fronts. Remembering, forgiving, etc.

Yes, your apple pie is fucking great! And so are you, Kelly Canfield!

Coming this thanksgiving? Cranberry Apple Almond Crisp!

No.

But that’s not what bothers me.

He’s in the Navy, and has been since ‘82. (I drove him to his induction, and just bawled my eyes out. Those were cold war years, and I was very worried for him) He’s been a submariner the whole time; chief, Ohio class subs.

He’s gone way downhill to the point of zero communication. Mail I send to his AFP doesn’t come back, so he’s not dead.

I admit it; I just hate the military. He’s not the same kid he used to be.

Just pulled two apple pies out of the oven. Well, my neighbor’s oven cause ours is broken. For a party tomorrow that my kids are throwing for me cause I will be 60 on Sunday. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

You guys are great! Pie around the house!

Did someone say “pie?” I like the crust transfer technique. Brilliant.

Love the Teddy/Billie score.

You still have pie left?

Hope you have a good birthday planned.

Right behind you MM – well, a year to go. Happy Birthday Dear!

I am going to Petaluma tomorrow in the afternoon. The daughters and their boyfriends are cooking me dinner. cept for pies.

Even if we did all of that we wouldn’t STOP being a target.

Excellent! You’re halfway there to 120!

Slainte!

happy B-Day Mary!!

I think that’s what it comes down to — we make good pie and we care for our friends best we can. Family values are for more than blood relatives, for sure!

why

Hello, Larue?

First sentence in the post:

Cowards. Cowards. And again, cowards.

In case you’re too busy Sunday. Happy birthday! I hope they cook ya something delicious.

I got in touch with an old friend from junior and senior high. We hadn’t seen each other in 42 years. That experience coupled with actually being old now was bizarro.

Oh, so in agreement! My working world involves so many that I care for deeply. AND, I have great family. And my children bake pies!!! (taught my me…)

Cause we won’t stop meddling in Muslim lands until they all run out of oil.

And, eCAHN, I wonder what your son thinks about the anger and disappointment and …. well, rage, maybe…. of his half-brothers? And how does that make him think of his father? So sorry that happened to your son.

Mary! Happiest!!!

Thanks. One of the boyfriends is a cook. The girls both worked at the Buckeye in Marin (expensive and semi-famous) so they know food and wine. Sara still is working there until she finds a nursing job. Food is central to our family. Not just the New Orleans kind but mainly good, well grown and well cooked food.

Cowards All! Indeed. Prosecute them in NYC and don’t let the terrorists- foreign or domestic win.

I find it baffling how people I know have aged so much while I stay exactly the same. Maybe if I didn’t keep all the mirrors in the house covered…

haha!

You don’t want Jack running into them.

Thanks for the birthday greetings. I am going to bed. The computer has my butt worn out. Nite!

Here is something I thought was funny on the subject of aging. My sister (age 62) told me yesterday she is thinking of getting contacts because she thinks she looks better without glasses. I said, “Of course you do! You can’t see without your glasses.”

I just decided instead of just watching the snow out my window, I’m going to go catch a snowflake on my tongue.

It’s been awhile, and I feel the need to do a child-like thing.

Back in a moment or two.

you bad!

Ai, Lassee . . . a glorious 60?

More than me, less than mine.

And all yours, yours alone!

Many more, Madame, many more.

N tell that ex husband of yers I said howdy.

I miss him and his music.

Enjoy!

Yeah, I know . . .

Hope you got a good one. Probably best with an apple pie chaser.

Leaving for real now. See y’all.

Hey I’m not defending Clinton for anything. But the republicans acted like little asshole kids who thought they got the candy store for chistmas and tried to eat themselves to death before the candy ran out.

Nor am I. But preemptive ass-covering is a fine art, perfected in John Yoo’s office. Janet Reno would have had none of that. :-)

I am sending a message to my dear Senator suggesting that he invest in a double pack of Depends. It seems that he may need them. I would actually send him some but those paranoiacs would be afraid that they were poisoned and arrest me for terroristic acts.

I’ll defend Clinton. Remember life in the late nineties?

I hope you have an umbrella handy, Loo Hoo. But yeah, if Bubba was as bad as Presidents get, we would live in a very different world.

Clinton and his record defends Himself as You remember.

Anyone who remembers the Republicans and how they acted, shouldn’t be able to forget that. They said it wasn’t the sex but the rule of law, but made themselves out to be the moral protectors of the Country. While most of them were banging anything that moved male or female. Remember old Larry Craige saying Clinton was a bad boy, while playing with as many good boys as He could.

People easily forgot their contract with America, and after Clinton, bought their death sentence for America for eight years. Now the people again are letting them sell they are America’s saviors by saving us from healthcare reform. Telling us tax cuts and free market capitolism is the only thing to save the country, just broken by tax cuts and free market capitolism.

I remember the nineties well, and can see we may never see those days again. Not because we don’t have another Clinton, but because we bought the Bush.

Sex was the anvil, lying in a deposition was the hammer.

Shortly after 9/11 there was an “anthrax” scare at the Spokane Airport. Evacuated the whole place; only to find that the substance was some spilled non-dairy creamer near the baggage claim.

People were losing their damn minds.

I was asked by a local reporter, “Sir, were you at all concerned or afraid when you heard there was an anthrax attack?”

Me, “No. Not at all.”

Reporter, “Why? You didn’t think it might be another Al Qaeda attack?”

Me, “In Spokane Washngton? Are you kidding me? Let me say two things. Probably nobody in all of Al Qaeda has any idea that Spokane even exists, and more importantly they have absolutely no reason to learn of its whereabouts.”

Reporter, stares at me in a kind of silent shocked confusion.

Me, “International Islamic terrorists attack geopolitical symbols of Western hegemony, not yokles standing around waiting for their cheap WalMart luggage. It wasn’t an accident that they attacked the World Trade Center twice.”

Reporter, sees woman behind me who’s completely hysterical, “Ma’am, ma’am, were you afraid this might be a terrorist attack?”

I think I was freshly 22, and was well on my way to losing every last ounce of faith I had in the rationality of humanity. My commentary never ended up in the paper, but a lot of scaremongering sure did.

The point is that terrorists have already been prosecuted successfully in New York. Nothing new here.

How can there even be a trial?

If any of us were brutally tortured as KSM and these guys, we’d ALL be “confessing” to 9/11 and any plot before and since.

The ONLY thing worse than the braying of Republicans over the moving of the trial is the so called liberals and Democrats who believe this clown was truly behind 9/11.

We need a NEW 9/11 Investigation, not a show trial.

If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a thousand times: Progressives are the best friend a terrorist ever had.

Any thoughts or FEELINGS of innocent people getting caged and tortured for years or for innocent non-Americans killed as collateral damage?

Lying was the excuse because if lying in court is a crime there are thousands of Republicans that should be in jail. If lying to the Country is considered all Republicans should be in jail.

DA! Are you forgetting that the Republicans have done more damage, killed more people, and cost us more than any terrorists ever could. The terrorists are setting there laughing at how stupid we are to be hurting ourselves.

We recruted for them, provided the money for them, and are supporting them, so who are the real fools.