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	<title>Comments on: Robert Gates: George W. Bush Was No Ronald Reagan</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/robert-gates-george-w-bush-was-no-ronald-reagan/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: texasaggie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/robert-gates-george-w-bush-was-no-ronald-reagan/#comment-2013916</link>
		<dc:creator>texasaggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 02:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=49920#comment-2013916</guid>
		<description>Well, now, just a second.  I&#039;m sure that Bush&#039;s ranch had a cow or two on it.  Remember that W spent his whole time clearing brush, not fixing fence, and the neighbors would have been glad to take advantage of all that pasture that grew up where the brush used to be.  A few snips with the wire cutters and Voila! the cows have somewhere else to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, now, just a second.  I&#8217;m sure that Bush&#8217;s ranch had a cow or two on it.  Remember that W spent his whole time clearing brush, not fixing fence, and the neighbors would have been glad to take advantage of all that pasture that grew up where the brush used to be.  A few snips with the wire cutters and Voila! the cows have somewhere else to go.</p>
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		<title>By: rich2506</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/robert-gates-george-w-bush-was-no-ronald-reagan/#comment-2013915</link>
		<dc:creator>rich2506</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=49920#comment-2013915</guid>
		<description>I was about to post about Reagan and us getting our Marine barracks blown up in Beirut, but you reminded me about Reagan and his attitude about &quot;Limited Nuclear War,&quot; a wacko theory that a &quot;shot across the bow&quot; would be enough to prevent further hostilities. 
Oh, and all ya hadda do to protect yourself from a nuclear blast &quot;Hey, just dig a hole, throw a few doors on top, put some dirt on it and wait until the fires burn out. You&#039;ll be fine!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was about to post about Reagan and us getting our Marine barracks blown up in Beirut, but you reminded me about Reagan and his attitude about &#8220;Limited Nuclear War,&#8221; a wacko theory that a &#8220;shot across the bow&#8221; would be enough to prevent further hostilities.<br />
Oh, and all ya hadda do to protect yourself from a nuclear blast &#8220;Hey, just dig a hole, throw a few doors on top, put some dirt on it and wait until the fires burn out. You&#8217;ll be fine!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: robspierre</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/robert-gates-george-w-bush-was-no-ronald-reagan/#comment-2013914</link>
		<dc:creator>robspierre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=49920#comment-2013914</guid>
		<description>Just because our pols are a disgracce is no reason to believe Iraqi pols. 

The claim that Kuwait was part of Iraq was politically convenient to Sadaam, but true only to the extent that the Ottoman Empire lumped Kuwait together with Iraq for administrative convenience, claiming to rule it from Basra. Until the Ottomans asserted themselves at the end of the 19th century, the claim had little connection with reality. Kuwait had a distinct existence in the 17th century and an independent government--already allied with Britain--from the 18th century on. 

In fact, if we take Ottoman colonial boundaries as our standard, then Iraq was itself part of Turkey with arguably less claim to an independent, pre-colonial existence than Kuwait. Iraq was soley defined by arbitrary Ottoman and subsequently British colonial boundaries that did not delineate any culturally or ethnicly unified group. This is why Iraq&#039;s territory covers distinct Sunni-Kurdish, Sunni-Arab, and Shiite-Arab areas, each with counterparts in neighboring countries (Turkish and Iranian Kurdistan and Iranian Arabistan). 

Alleged slant drilling was one of Sadaam&#039;s complaints. But he also disputed the modern border and argued that Kuwait owed Iraq for protection from Iran and for undercutting the cartel oil price. All such claims are debatable, to say the least.

Sadaam&#039;s claims were hardly unique and seem to be part and parcel of the way land and power grabs are made in the Arabian peninsula. The first Kuwait crisis back in the 1960s involved Saudi Arabia as the agressor. Again, the attack was justified by claimed but ill-defined Ottoman-era borders and &quot;stolen&quot; oil fields. British intervention settled matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because our pols are a disgracce is no reason to believe Iraqi pols. </p>
<p>The claim that Kuwait was part of Iraq was politically convenient to Sadaam, but true only to the extent that the Ottoman Empire lumped Kuwait together with Iraq for administrative convenience, claiming to rule it from Basra. Until the Ottomans asserted themselves at the end of the 19th century, the claim had little connection with reality. Kuwait had a distinct existence in the 17th century and an independent government&#8211;already allied with Britain&#8211;from the 18th century on. </p>
<p>In fact, if we take Ottoman colonial boundaries as our standard, then Iraq was itself part of Turkey with arguably less claim to an independent, pre-colonial existence than Kuwait. Iraq was soley defined by arbitrary Ottoman and subsequently British colonial boundaries that did not delineate any culturally or ethnicly unified group. This is why Iraq&#8217;s territory covers distinct Sunni-Kurdish, Sunni-Arab, and Shiite-Arab areas, each with counterparts in neighboring countries (Turkish and Iranian Kurdistan and Iranian Arabistan). </p>
<p>Alleged slant drilling was one of Sadaam&#8217;s complaints. But he also disputed the modern border and argued that Kuwait owed Iraq for protection from Iran and for undercutting the cartel oil price. All such claims are debatable, to say the least.</p>
<p>Sadaam&#8217;s claims were hardly unique and seem to be part and parcel of the way land and power grabs are made in the Arabian peninsula. The first Kuwait crisis back in the 1960s involved Saudi Arabia as the agressor. Again, the attack was justified by claimed but ill-defined Ottoman-era borders and &#8220;stolen&#8221; oil fields. British intervention settled matters.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/robert-gates-george-w-bush-was-no-ronald-reagan/#comment-2013913</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=49920#comment-2013913</guid>
		<description>Yeah, there&#039;s a lot of demand for it these days. Got Credit Default Swaps to cover it? Heh.

I think Gates is respected as someone who can carry out policy as needed and both Repubs and Dems need dept chiefs who can do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, there&#8217;s a lot of demand for it these days. Got Credit Default Swaps to cover it? Heh.</p>
<p>I think Gates is respected as someone who can carry out policy as needed and both Repubs and Dems need dept chiefs who can do that.</p>
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		<title>By: robspierre</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/robert-gates-george-w-bush-was-no-ronald-reagan/#comment-2013912</link>
		<dc:creator>robspierre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=49920#comment-2013912</guid>
		<description>To be fair, Ronald Reagan was no Ronald Reagan either. &quot;Circumspect about putting or keeping America’s troops and America’s credibility at risk without a clear mission or strong odds of success?&quot; Reagan? He wasn&#039;t so much circumspect as asleep. Check the list:

* Libya: I have heard former service members who were there say that Reagan&#039;s deliberate and pointless provocation of Libya in the Gulf of Sirte  brought us closer to catastrophic losses than has ever been admitted--luck saved a carrier. 

* Lebanon: Reagan&#039;s intervention in Lebanon cost catastrophic losses in the Marine barracks bombing, encouraged Reagan&#039;s proteges, the Lebanese fascists, into a suicidal confrontation with Syria, implicated us in the worst excesses of the Israeli ultra right and ultimately resulted in outright defeat--a Lebanon dominated by Syria and Hezbollah.

* Soviet Union: Reagan flirted with nuclear disaster by sending ships and submarines to provoke the Soviets in the approaches to the Soviet Arctic. Members of his administration talked glibly about nuclear first strikes and winning nuclear wars by living in buried automobiles. He did perhaps permanent damage to arms control agreements by pursuing a Star Wars program that was a fraud from the start and by committing to a massive arms escalation that stoked fears, enriched contractors, and never produced useful weapons.

* Afghanistan: Reagan invented Al Qaeda and the Taliban in order to harass the Soviets in Afghanistan, while brushing aside warnings about the danger both groups posed to America. 

* Pakistan: Reagan&#039;s administration scuttled the nuclear proliferation treaty by turning a blind eye to the Pakistani nuclear program, all because harassing the Soviets in Afghanistan was deemed more important.

* Iran: Iran-Contra. The cake, the Bible, and the Colt .45 revolver? Need I say more?

* Central America: Reagan waged secret wars with Saudi money in defiance of Congress, permanently blackening our reputation in Latin America and giving further impetus to the forces that produced 9/11.  

I could go on. But the bottom line is that Reagan was just Bush without control of both houses of Congress. He had the same intent, just not the same opportunity. 

This blind and/or dishonest Reaganolatry shows why Gates should have been banished from public life long ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, Ronald Reagan was no Ronald Reagan either. &#8220;Circumspect about putting or keeping America’s troops and America’s credibility at risk without a clear mission or strong odds of success?&#8221; Reagan? He wasn&#8217;t so much circumspect as asleep. Check the list:</p>
<p>* Libya: I have heard former service members who were there say that Reagan&#8217;s deliberate and pointless provocation of Libya in the Gulf of Sirte  brought us closer to catastrophic losses than has ever been admitted&#8211;luck saved a carrier. </p>
<p>* Lebanon: Reagan&#8217;s intervention in Lebanon cost catastrophic losses in the Marine barracks bombing, encouraged Reagan&#8217;s proteges, the Lebanese fascists, into a suicidal confrontation with Syria, implicated us in the worst excesses of the Israeli ultra right and ultimately resulted in outright defeat&#8211;a Lebanon dominated by Syria and Hezbollah.</p>
<p>* Soviet Union: Reagan flirted with nuclear disaster by sending ships and submarines to provoke the Soviets in the approaches to the Soviet Arctic. Members of his administration talked glibly about nuclear first strikes and winning nuclear wars by living in buried automobiles. He did perhaps permanent damage to arms control agreements by pursuing a Star Wars program that was a fraud from the start and by committing to a massive arms escalation that stoked fears, enriched contractors, and never produced useful weapons.</p>
<p>* Afghanistan: Reagan invented Al Qaeda and the Taliban in order to harass the Soviets in Afghanistan, while brushing aside warnings about the danger both groups posed to America. </p>
<p>* Pakistan: Reagan&#8217;s administration scuttled the nuclear proliferation treaty by turning a blind eye to the Pakistani nuclear program, all because harassing the Soviets in Afghanistan was deemed more important.</p>
<p>* Iran: Iran-Contra. The cake, the Bible, and the Colt .45 revolver? Need I say more?</p>
<p>* Central America: Reagan waged secret wars with Saudi money in defiance of Congress, permanently blackening our reputation in Latin America and giving further impetus to the forces that produced 9/11.  </p>
<p>I could go on. But the bottom line is that Reagan was just Bush without control of both houses of Congress. He had the same intent, just not the same opportunity. </p>
<p>This blind and/or dishonest Reaganolatry shows why Gates should have been banished from public life long ago.</p>
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		<title>By: robgard</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/robert-gates-george-w-bush-was-no-ronald-reagan/#comment-2013907</link>
		<dc:creator>robgard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=49920#comment-2013907</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure that the first words uttered by those hearing the warning sirens in Sderot are &quot;Here comes another fucking lie&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure that the first words uttered by those hearing the warning sirens in Sderot are &#8220;Here comes another fucking lie&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: nomolos</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/robert-gates-george-w-bush-was-no-ronald-reagan/#comment-2013900</link>
		<dc:creator>nomolos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=49920#comment-2013900</guid>
		<description>No indeed and they can be certain that it will be nowhere in the American news media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No indeed and they can be certain that it will be nowhere in the American news media.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann in AZ</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/robert-gates-george-w-bush-was-no-ronald-reagan/#comment-2013899</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann in AZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:58:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=49920#comment-2013899</guid>
		<description>Emptywheel has a &lt;a href=&quot;http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/crazy-pete-hoekstra-is-a-big-fat-demogoging-liar/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fresh cross-post&lt;/a&gt; up: “Crazy Pete Hoekstra Is a Big Fat* Demogoging Liar”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Emptywheel has a <a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/crazy-pete-hoekstra-is-a-big-fat-demogoging-liar/" rel="nofollow">fresh cross-post</a> up: “Crazy Pete Hoekstra Is a Big Fat* Demogoging Liar”</p>
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		<title>By: ratfood</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/robert-gates-george-w-bush-was-no-ronald-reagan/#comment-2013898</link>
		<dc:creator>ratfood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=49920#comment-2013898</guid>
		<description>In any event, that ten billion per year spent during the &#039;90s to contain Saddam seems like a real bargain now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In any event, that ten billion per year spent during the &#8217;90s to contain Saddam seems like a real bargain now.</p>
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		<title>By: yellowsnapdragon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/11/11/robert-gates-george-w-bush-was-no-ronald-reagan/#comment-2013897</link>
		<dc:creator>yellowsnapdragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=49920#comment-2013897</guid>
		<description>Yes.  IIRC Kuwait was slant drilling into Iraq&#039;s oil fields.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes.  IIRC Kuwait was slant drilling into Iraq&#8217;s oil fields.</p>
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