Primary. Yes.

Do you have a list yet Rayne?

love that headline!

64 crayons in a box and it is time for a new box.

the forkers deserve primaries. time to put an end to the fuckery being done in our names.

They will be replaced. We need to get rid of the old white men who can get Viagra whenever they want and replace them with some women who can rule and get others to follow. We want change – now.

Call or e-mail all of Stupak’s corporate donors and tell them you are boycotting their business because he voted to take away your reproductive rights. Do it soon.

Fundraise immediately. Ads on the air by Monday.

Let’s go get ‘em. They’re not Democrats!

Stupak Amendment Passes; 64 Dems Ask for Primary Opponents

Or general opponents. If we can’t primary them we can support whichever puke runs against them.

Count me in.

This has been the problem all along. No politician in America is afraid of losing votes over being anti-abortion. We need to change that. We need to make it clear that there is a large, vocal group of voters who will make them suffer at the voting booth if our rights are not respected. And there’s no time like the present.

Now that women will be forced to buy supplemental insurance for abortion outside the exchange – I think we should have an amendment that forces men to buy supplemental policy just in case they get a woman pregnant – their policy can pay for the woman’s legal procedure.

Bastards – all of them. Takes any pleasure away from the possibility of real health reform. I thought this bill was supposed to stop discrimination against women?

Does anyone have a list of the 64?

Isn’t that the R Strategy To Nowhere?

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll884.xml

I say bite ‘em in the ankles. Then primary them.

Good idea, except most of them are probably more dedicated to overturning Roe vs. Wade then the bluest of Blue Dogs.

Yes, yes! We can’t general all 64 but we certainly need to general Stupak.

Useless Democratic majority

Primaries: AYE!

Do you like that headline?

Love it.

jesus, i gotta start making more money.

I say bite ‘em in the ankles.

I say you’re aiming way too low.

Naive (Canuckistanian observer) question here….

Can the Stupakkian Codswallop be leveraged out later?

.

Pitchforks!

They’re useless anyway. It will keep the other Flaccidcrats in line.

CSPAN is really playing up the opponents of health care reform. When does someone propose legislation changing the name to the United States of Morons.

Ya know, if it were possible to not have a dog in this fight, this would be some pretty fine theater.

Alas…..

Rant! Rave! Don’t Quit!

Don’t walk away – but I do say let’s make mayhem, against all the opponents of Women’s rights. Thrown them in one big lump. It’s what MOVEMENTS do!

The Huckster in Chief is talking on CSPAN.

Roll Call

Not IDed by party. Collin Peterson and Oberstar of MN were Yeas.

Here is an interesting statistic. Cannot vouch for the accuracy, but it seems to be generally what can be found across a couple of different sources:

How much does a surgical abortion cost?
In 2001, the average charge for a surgical abortion at 10 weeks’ gestation was $468; but since most abortions in the United States are performed at low-cost clinics, women on average paid $372 for the procedure. (31)
How much does a medical abortion cost? In 2001, the average charge for a medical abortion was $487. (31)
Who pays for abortions?

Some 74% of women pay for abortions with their own money; 13% of abortions are covered by Medicaid, and 13% are billed directly to private insurance. Some women who pay for the procedure themselves may receive insurance reimbursement later.

i don’t think we have the $$$$ to primary 64 people do we?

I will be very surprised if this is in the final bill. Maybe I’m foolishly optimistic, but I don’t think this amendment will ever be heard of again.

And that is what is needed. A movement. Fuck the politicians.

when house & senate bills go to conference to get a single bill, hopefully it’ll be dropped.

i think you’re right. bit I am foolish so don’t go by that.

jesus.h.christ.

I’m seeing 7 Dem votes in favor of the red-herring tort-reform clap-trap just now introduced.

‘course, there are 236 against, so it fails – but fer chrissakes, who are these “democrats”?

update: 10 D’s voting with Eric Fucking Cantor.

November 2008 was just an illusion.

Listening to these elderly callers to Cspan ,complaining about a government takeover of healthcare, kills me

Roll call votes for vile Stupak Amendment:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll884.xml

Thanks, John. My rep, Kildee, voted yea. I hate that bluedog motherfucker.

The Senate is probably even more anti-choice, remember mostly old rich white guys.

you a Toronto Raptors fan?

AZ Matt, others — no, I don’t have a list of names, but I would be very glad to see one if somebody can scare a vetted list up.

That Medicare Advantage argument really resonates with Seniors. AARP has made a fortune peddling those policies.

Primary on principle!

You know the Senate will put it in too, and then it will have to remain in the final bill.

Bastards. Primary, Yes.

i dunno. don’t think a bill with the Stupak language will come out of the Senate and don’t think it will go back to the Senate after conference.

The amendment can still be stripped in conference committee. Supposedly, President Obama promised Henry Waxman that he would personally work to do just that. We’ll see…

http://openleft.com/diary/15913/health-care-debate-and-vote-open-thread

My bluedog Arcuri voted no. I still don’t like him.

republicans never allow the fact that they’re voting against their own best self-interest get in the way of voting republican anyway.

If that weren’t the case, they’d garner about 2% of the national vote.

go figure.

Right. Like I believe Obama on anything right now.

i dunno if the senate will. not convinced of that yet.

I’m breaching blog rules, I’m sure, but time is short, so I’m repeating a previous message of mine on another thread:

An idea: Jane, how are your contacts? Any chance some pro-choice Dem could offer THEIR OWN motion to recommit after this vote? And that motion would have the instruction, the only instruction, to remove the Stupak language?

Alongside with primaries, shouldn’t we pressure the pro-choice House members to publicly declare that they will vote against the final bill unless the Stupak amendment is eliminated? That is the best bet we have now to get it removed during the reconciliation process. Game is not over yet, folks.

Hope you are right but given what has transpired over the last 6 months I’m jaded.

True!

Look I’ve been out and gay for 30 years. I know about all this incremental crap, and it’s partly true; for gay people.

I know where and how this has all worked. Every time that the boats have risen for Women, my boat has risen.

Every time racial minority boats have risen, mine has risen.

I’m used to my particular boat being at the end of the line.

That being said, seeing the boat for women LOWER alarms me beyond repair, in fact into despair. That does not bode well for me, at fucking ALL.

We need a movement beyond this party apparatus, but the party itself must be co-opted; because THAT’S HOW IT WORKED BEFORE!

Workers, Women, Racial Minorities and Gays – UNITE! Take the Dems Back from the Corporatists!

I must be a total fool. I thought Marcy Kaptur was one of the good guys. I will never respect her again.

64 is not that many. We can do this.

more of the fear mongering from the Repubs

BL–

Thanks for the info.

Re: Raptors….Nope….Grew up in hometown of Mr. Nash….Convinced that there would still be Grizzlies in Vancouver if Stu Jackson had drafted The Steve instead of the Big Tub of Goo*

_____
(aka Bryant Reeves)

Yes they are identified by party:
(Democrats in roman; Republicans in italic; Independents underlined)

5 Dems voting no on final passage right off the bat. Hmmm.

Altmire Baca Barrow Berry Bishop (GA) Boccieri Boren Bright
Cardoza Carney Chandler Childers Cooper Costa Costello Cuellar Dahlkemper Davis (AL) Donnely Doyle Driehaus Ellsworth Etheridge Gordon (TN) Griffith Hill Holden Kanjorski Kaptur Kildee Langevin Lipinski Lynch Marshall Matheson McIntyre Melanchon Michaud Mollahan Murtha Neal (MA) Oberstar Obey Ortiz Perriello Peterson Pomeroy Rahall Reyes Rodriguez Ross Ryan SalazarShuler Skelton Space Spratt Stupak Tanner Taylor Teague Wilson

Give or take a few

Kaptur has always been firmly anti-choice; and always been great on fighting against corporations, banks, etc. That’s what it makes it hard to just lump them together as “Blue Dogs”.

No meaningful social change has occured without a movement by the people. The politicians don’t lead, they merely follow or are dragged kicking and screaming.

Man this is going fast. 20 Dem nay votes already!

so is this it ?

I will be very surprised if this is in the final bill. Maybe I’m foolishly optimistic, but I don’t think this amendment will ever be heard of again.

I don’t think that should matter to us. There are 64 DINOs who voted Yea. We should not forget.

23 nay votes. 17 more Dem nay votes and the bill fails.

29 nay votes. 11 votes to failure

Pelosi, too, will work to get it out. It would be suicidal for the dem party (as a whole) to betray women. I think this was all kabuki designed to let some dems pretend to stand up for their anti-choice constituents knowing full well it will disappear.

That’s not what matters. What matters these 64 are not on our side and cannot be trusted.

And us catholics went from a holy see who wouldn’t approve of our invasion
of Iraq, to one who sez what we’re doing now is a little police action.

The Catholic Bishops of the United States need to understand this is a Democracy, Not a Theocracy like Israel. They can go get their little boys
in the CIA like the Dulles Clan etc to do there dirty work with propoganda leaflets dropped from there airplanes over other countries but not here in the good old pay for your own secular prayer breakfast U.S! Why don’t the Princes of the Church save some Palestinian children from being bulldozed into the ground.

30 nays from the Dems

At least 3 of them are from super-liberal New England states (Langevin, Neal, Lynch); it should be easier to primary them.

31 Dem nays. 9 votes to failure

Who are they trying to persuade?

Randall Terry and his ilk would sooner light themselves on fire than vote for a Democratic candidate.

You’re not a fool– she usually is good, but in this case she’s probably afraid of the anti-abortion nuts. The abortion lobby is kind of like the gun lobby– their influence is disproportionate to their numbers.

We’ve dragged them before, we can drag them again

33 Dem nays. 7 votes to failure

Vote on HR 3962…

Yeah – 208
Nay – 205

Eleven minutes remaining

And we should believe ANYTHING Obama says? Why is that?

36 Dem nays. 4 votes to failure

Here’s the list, from the clerk of the House:

Altmire
Baca
Barrow
Berry
Bishop (GA)
Boccieri
Boren
Bright
Cardoza
Carney
Chandler
Childers
Cooper
Costa
Costello
Cuellar
Dahlkemper
Davis (AL)
Davis (TN)
Donnelly (IN)
Doyle
Driehaus
Ellsworth
Etheridge
Gordon (TN)
Griffith
Hill
Holden
Kanjorski
Kaptur
Kildee
Langevin
Lipinski
Lynch
Marshall
Matheson
McIntyre
Melancon
Michaud
Mollohan
Murtha
Neal (MA)
Oberstar
Obey
Ortiz
Perriello
Peterson
Pomeroy
Rahall
Reyes
Rodriguez
Ross
Ryan (OH)
Salazar
Shuler
Skelton
Snyder
Space
Spratt
Stupak
Tanner
Taylor
Teague
Wilson (OH)

This is way too tight of a vote.

8 more!

That’s the list on the amendment.

Who jumps out?

Chris Carney has fucked us again.

Artur Davis – Marcy Kaptur – Jack Murtha – David Obey – Ike Skelton.

just the ones that leap out at me.

I already took RevDeb’s pledge against donating money to ANY Dems, if that amendment is part of the final bill.

Love the headline! …but maybe it should read Stupe-Pac?

Jim Cooper. Putz.

I think I’m gonna puke!

WTF…not happy with this vote

Vote on HR 3962…

Yeah – 212
Nay – 209

Republicans unanimous Nay

Nine minutes remaining

Those 10 Dems are probably Blue Dogs who have agreed to vote yes if needed but will otherwise be given a pass because of their Republican districts.

pubs can’t make it to 218.

Nevertheless, she is now dead to me, elected-officialwise.

we need 5 more

I thought they ( blue dogs) agreed if the Stupak amendment passed they’d vote yes on the bill! Why so many Demo nos?

OMG, I thought this was a shoe-in

3 more

do ya suppose that there are arms being twisted even now>?

Yeah. I won’t donate to any dems if that amendment remains part of the bill.

I mean, what would be the point? I’d rather give the money to abortion providers.

2 more.

I’m totally serious; I love women! I’m just not going to sleep with any!

And if women are not treated equally in this healthcare bill, it bodes NOTHING but ill will to EVERYONE who is not a man and straight. This is just so dangerous right now.

It’s like they’re setting up the Taliban, but beardless and turbanless and in suits and ties.

[the rest of this comment is pre-moderated, as it just won't fly past sensible FDL Mods. Thanks.]

They did it!

218

yes yes yes 218

Made it. 218

Thank God..

If no one switches

Vote on HR 3962…
Bill PASSES

Yeah – 218
Nay – 214

Republicans unanimous Nay
Six.5 minutes remaining

So close. They needed Stupak to get to 218; now they’ll strip the Stupak.

I get it.

Doesn’t mean I like it.

Waiting till the next election is too long a wait for the bluedogs to learn how unhappy we are. This party is so fuked they can’t do any thing right. Just wait till the American people find out they are ALLgoing to be forced to buy health care. The Dem party will be freaking toast. Most voters aren’t aware of that detail, just ask the people you know who are that not news oriented.

It’s a fundamental part of our belief system in the Democratic Party, that women have a right to privacy in their reproductive health care decisions.

Apparently not.

It should be believed because just as the Republicans had their blind faith in the Decider we should have a blind faith in the Vacillator.

yes – now could someone please tell me if this bill is worth a fuck?

who’s the weasel who hasn’t voted yet?

I’m sorry, but why should I vote for Democrats anymore?

1 Republican votes yes!

who’s the r who voted yea?

Hey Obama! There’s your one Republican vote — It’s a bipartisan bill. heh.

[the rest of this comment is pre-moderated, as it just won't fly past sensible FDL Mods. Thanks.]

Really, really laughing out loud. Thank you!

Let the Democratic party be toast, along with the Republican party. New ones will form to fill the void.

Holy Shit a republican voted yea on passage

You shouldn’t.

Doesn’t feel like history. Doesn’t even feel like a win.

That was my first thought. We are cheering WHY?

Pretty much a piece o crap, wouldn’t we be better off starting over?

And no, I don’t want to give Obama a check mark in the “win” column.

Here’s the catch….we won’t know that until reconciliation. To be honest, I’m hopeful.

Don’t look at me…

OMG…A repub voted ‘yes’

From LA….nice

Joseph Cua or whatever from LA is rethug voting yea

Gee, I’m going to miss Marcy Kaptur. Or would have if she hadn’t made this blunder.

don’t look at me. let me know if you get an answer, though. my guess, though, is that it’s not a big deal but it’ll be made a bog deal by both sides and all we’ll hear is bullshit from now until 2012 about this. and anytime anybody dies for any reason, Obama will get blamed.

Didn’t it go from bad to worse with the stupak amendment?

per cspan – joseph gao (sp) new r from lousiana voted yea

Will Nancy get more than 218?
Doesn’t this make the GOP look stupid for letting Bill Owens sneak through?

2 Dems could save their ass by changing their vote.

Yay!!!!!!

We are cheering WHY?

I suppose, that if nothing else, I can savor the thought of Boner weeping into his umbrella-covered drinks tonight…

Joseph Ca0
http://josephcao.house.gov/

rock on Joseph!

Rep Joe Cao LA lone yea vote.

Vote on HR 3962 FINAL
Bill PASSES

Yeah – 220 (One Republican, Anh “Joseph” Cao (R-LA)
Nay – 215

Republicans NOT unanimous Nay

with Frank Kratovil as my rep I would welcome a primary challenger. Only way I’ll vote in the race as Kratovil has voted against ever having my support.
A year from now I will remember exactly this moment…

More like a whimper.

nope. no W fr me. I told my rep that if she didn’t vote for a robust public option she could go fuck herself next November. this don’t seem very robust to me.

get that man a bodyguard, stat.

Well, I can name one D who voted “yea” but is already saying that he did so with the hope of making the bill worse in conference.

The Dumocrats are cheering now but they’ll be crying in 2010.

He said he might. But there was another vote awhile back that he also said he’d vote with the dems and he backed down. Good for him.

Stupak notwithstanding, kudos to Nancy Pelosi.

I think she’s wonderful.

Everybody talks about Obama’s so-called jujitsu moves. But Pelosi is the true ninja legislator. She used the Stupak maneuver to get the bill through, and now she’ll strip the amendment.

Marcy Kaptur is still **** to me.

[smile]

Really, you don’t know how fearful I am. It’s like damn near 30 years of progress just went instantly backwards; and I remember what it was like at that time.

It was Gay Bosnia/Hercegovina. Bashing was rampant. It was like “How dare you be out, homo? Crawl back in your hole.”

For Women to take this hit to almost back to Roe, is just not acceptable to me. Our fates are interwoven.

I love the expressions on the faces of the pukes, if nothing else it’s worth that.

Good one.
I’m beyond pissed off.

Bi-partisany!

No one needs Olympia Snowe now.

LOL! Oh shit! I forgot about Owens!! Good one, Td. Thank you Miss Sarah.
Was watching FOX and Geraldo brought up Owens and the bimbette analyst blew him off “The Democrats had the votes anyway. That really doesn’t matter.”

Of course it’s a win for Obama. He got 1 Republican vote making this an historic bipartisan win. Obama values bipartisanship over principle.

Agree. As go women’s rights, so go gay rights.

still a lot a work left to do .
We’ll have to see what we get for a final bill

rayne has more upstairs

Wow–

Still 39 ConservaDems go over the wall even WITH the Stuppakian Codswallop?

.

In response to Bluetoe2 @ 147

Hopefully, most of those will be crying because of the primaries.

Patrick has submitted Duncan’s new definition of stupak to the Urban Dictionary.

Bless you Kelly, thank you for saying that. You’re right.

oh rah. We get a health care reform bill at the cost of women’s right to control the use of their own bodies. Fuck that.

That’s what I mean. Stupak is, in my view, all bullshit and I think they all now it’s not gonna be in the final bill.

That kind of crap is why I don’t belong to AARP. Dropped it after a year: the newsletter was mostly ads for insurance and junk drugs, and the magazine showed up about twice, and was all about ‘celebrity’ seniors. No thanks; if that’s the best they have, I don’t want it.

WTF unanimous Yea… everybody loves a winner…

It’s like winning a huge battle, but half of your friends were killed or wounded.

36 million more people will be insured or become eligible for Medicaid
There will be a trillion dollars raised to help subsidize this.
There will be multiple measures to help control the costs of Medicare
We will stop subsidizing private insurers in Medicare Advantage
Closes the donut hole
Allows Medicare negotiation for drugs
Includes the seeds of a public option
Prohibits denials based on prior conditions; ends rescissions except for fraud
funds more education for doctors/nurses
Begins dozens of health prevention programs, pilots, surveys
Creates entities to evaluate and recommend better treatment, cost saving
And on and on.

It’s a massive achievement, but women, mostly poor, paid a price.

They think they get to speak for everyone, regardless of religion, because the Pope is supposed to have a direct phone line to God. God may have another view of that, but they never ask Her.

as a long time advocate of single payer it’s nice to see the peanuts pointed out in this turd.

Soon we will be folded together with women in places like Afghanistan. We are compromised if we are beaten or raped. No coverage for you, my dear. Over this I will take to the streets. These politicians sold their souls in exchange for our well being. They will burn in hell. We will merely die. Again.

I don’t think the buying health insurance freaks them. It’s that the insurance is unreliable crap.

Have courage. I have faith this will be mitigated.

Should we send checks to the opponents of those Dem traitors?

What’s the chance the Senate will take the Stapak admendment out of the bill?

Joe Donnelly, 2nd district IN. BLUE DOG. See you at the voting booth. Waiting to find out how he voted on 3962.

Catholic indoctrination is some heavy burden to bear, even as an atheist I’m open to give them a break. It’s like Weiner voting against the Goldstone Report, he’s Jewish, – what can I say other than I vehemently disagree. Non Catholics, non Jews Primary the cocksuckers!

the white house sold their soul for “bi-partisinship”. i blame them more than anything.

I already told my backslider to expect a primary.

Here’s the basic problem with that great idea -

Why the Left won’t embrace Religion?

Because, saying your Christian or whatever is one thing. Following its doctrine to the letter rubs against Post-Modern Society

This is why the Left has classicaly shunned Religion after the Liberals were soundly defeated post Carter. Europe’s Governments are largely secular as you can tell, stuff like Stupak’s amendment never comes up.

Also a vote against the Goldstone Report doesn’t come up….

There some other problems with a United Liberal Front but that is one of the CORE issues.

this Rep studied the bill for a week and concluded differently:

Yesterday, Congressman Eric Massa (D-NY), a lead single payer advocate in the House, said he would vote against Obamacare.
…

“At the highest level this bill will enshrine in law the monopolistic powers of the private health insurance industry,” Massa said yesterday in a telephone press conference. “There’s no other way to look at it.”

The Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reported that Massa spent the last week studying 1,990-page H.R. 3962.

Massa said that the bill “fails to address the fundamental question before the American people, and that is, how do you control the costs of health care?”

the Democrats don’t want to control costs, they want to funnel those costs into the coffers of their insurance cartel backers!

Let’s not forget that this was made possible by Nancy Pelosi. She needs to be both primaried and generaled.

RE:bi-partisinship Dem is just a label. Uniquely, U.S. parties have few powers other than raising $$ – by law! There are plenty of liberal Republicans. Make use of the Internet. It is true that one elected politician can’t pass a law. Also one elected politician can’t even get a bill out of committee! We voters should support candidates that sign platforms

Perhaps we should remind our favorite candidates of our lack of enthusiasm for any candidates that can’t find a single other candidate that agrees with them – on even a single (specific) issue! It doesn’t matter what label they run under!

One important demand —

Ratify a treaty guaranteeing democratic government! Ratify the Copenhagen Document of the Helsinki Accords. Ratified U.S. treaties are constitutionally protected. George H.W Bush signed it, but no Senate ratification. http://bit.ly/lYwHd

We didn’t win. We just passed a bill.

In the first few years it’s a travesty, even more so now than when I wrote the linked diary explaining why it’s that. And because it is, who knows if it will survive to be fully implemented?

dont forget COBRA extension for millions of unemployed. I dont know about you but paying $320 a month to have health care go on while I look for work–20 months and counting–is way better than no guarantee issue and having to pay maybe as much as $900 a month.

I can sleep.
I really worry about the Senate where there isnt a margin of 40 votes.
Turns out that the wins in CA (Garamendi) and NY (Owens) kept it from being maybe a one vote win.

?

If the San Francisco Green Party weren’t in shambles I’d say this might well be Cindy Sheehan’s moment to shine. As it is I’m not so sure.

she did shine! she got 17% of the vote, trying to bring ‘Accountability’ to Pelosi – and she did it without appreciable support from ‘progressives’, who choose loyalty to the Democratic Party over principle.

there’s more where that came from, folks! protest vote sentiment will be high in 2010 – and the 2 factions of the corporate ruling party have never been more discredited.

I agree with Kelly on this. I was a single mom just quit working to go to college to hopefully get training for a living wage job when Clinton threw poor women under the bus with Newt’s help in ’95.

I remember distinctly one of my arguments when I tried so hard to educate people about the evils of welfare reform, when I couldn’t move them on caring about poor women was that all women who tried to leave abusive situations would be screwed. I was rebuffed and lo and behold! Once the bill passed with ease, suddenly everyone on the left clutched their pearls and said, “On noes! Nice middle class ladies won’t be able to get emergency funds if they have to leave an abusive marriage! What to do!”

Well, nothing, what was done was done and since the “reform” focused on poor women (black women most speciously), no one bothered to notice until it was too late.

And so it is here. Poor women haven’t been able to afford abortions for years since the Hyde amendment and have been routinely harrassed and lied to by wingnut misinformation campaigns about birth control, abortion and even duped by pseudo pregnancy “counseling”.

Wealthy and most middle class women will still be able to afford abortions and most middle class people will be able to afford healthcare as well with this bill.

Poor people are the sacrificial lambs once again. Nothing to see here, move along, move along, so the power brokers say while stuffing their pockets.

I am sick, I am cynical, I am tired. I am poor and I’m damn tired of being forgotten and when I try to point up that we all are in this whole thing together, only a few get it.

How have the Democrats’ platform of compromising with corporatists and Republicans worked for poor women, minorities, gay folks or anyone else who isn’t part of the “mainstream” America?

I’m locked out of this process and always have been, so I’ve nothing to run away from or speak up about. There’s nothing than hasn’t been said before in the last thirty flippn’ years.

a few small wins and a massive long term FAIL.

stupid unsustainable policy and further enriches and entrenches the very industries we will have to fight to havae genuine reform.

increase costs and no cost controls. i don’t think most middle class people understand what that means — insurance isn’t healthcare and people with insurance who can’t afford the copays go without healthcare. now they will have even less healthcare after having to pay for insurance they can’t use.

no viable po. failure of the progressive block, failure of the pro-choice caucus.

I am very angry.

Croak!

I hope you are right and this will be stripped. But, frankly, I doubt it. It will have overwhelming support in the Senate, for one thing. And it’s going to set up a two-tier system: one for people who can pay for their own insurance and one for people who get government support.

Forget primaries.

The Democrats are to entrenched corrupt and Decayed.

We need a 3rd party. Just look how weak the progressives are. They wouldn’t even keep their words, they let leadership walk all over them.

In response to PJEvans @ 168

Yeah, I’d like to commission a painting for our National Shrine on Michigan
Avenue. ‘Justice Stevens on the phone with The Black Female – God Herself’,
with the Holy See listening in to ensure servitude is being met out.

I think every one of the 64 primary challengers should be women.

Thank you. Your headline is perfect. I’ve been hunting for somebody in the so-called MSM who seriously recognized that women were tossed casually under the bus, but have not yet found them. I will not give a cent to the DCCC — all donations go directly to the candidate. Also I’ll be hard-pressed to vote for Roman Catholics unless I am crystal clear about their position and their history on this matter.

I want to be happy about the passage of the bill but I’m too disgusted.

Oh, and just so that we don’t spread ourselves too thin, let’s start with Stupak.

oops … deleted

no, don’t support the puke.
Support a progressive Democrat OR a third party.

Or just stay home. Fuck ‘em.

It’s a fundamental part of our belief system in the Democratic Party, that women have a right to privacy in their reproductive health care decisions.

Its a hell of a lot more than that: its that every man and woman on Earth has the inalienable right to dominion over themselves. If the goons can trash that right in one instance they sure as hell can trash that right in another area. All it takes is some slick talking jackal to come up with a story that the plebs, always looking for fictitious enemies and scape goats for their misery are all too happy to turn on, and poof someone, some group loses control over themselves.

Carney’s no surprise. He fooled everyone by saying he was a Democratic veteran when his last assignment when in the military was in the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans working for Douglas Feith. Yet Democrats in Pennsylvania were willing to treat him as a messiah because he was a Democrat and he has become exactly what he was meant to be, a thorn in the side of Democrats.

Time to throw the whole lot out and really institute term limits. We don’t need an institutional memory in our legislators, there are plenty of civil service employees who work for congress who can provide the needed continuity. The thought that there’s no one in this country who could better serve the interests of the people, not the corporations, than any one of the current 535 people in congress is ludicrous.

How does this pass constitutional muster unless it’s intended to be a gateway for a challenge to Roe v Wade? It’s clearly unconstitutional to bar payment to a class of persons for a procedure that is a recognized, legal medical procedure while allowing payment for other procedures.

Davis (AL) will likely run for governor next time and in my opinion otherwise just doesn’t care much what his constituents think. The way things work in Alabama, he has just the right attitude to be governor.

Also. I would like to know why those Catholic churches who spent weeks telling their parishioners to support the Stupak amendment still have an income tax exemption.

Because it is not politics to expain the teachings of the Catholic church. It is not the Catholic tradition to preach politics from the pulpit – you have to look to protestants for that. Politics should translate good morality that is not one church’s view into laws that protect people. You probably don’t have a problem with a law against shooting people, why should you have a problem with a law against killing a baby?

I don’t care if you’re Pro-Life or Pro-Choice, you should have the ability to make your own decisions regarding your health care. If you don’t want to support a Pro-Choice plan, take your credits elsewhere. But to eliminate the option entirely kills the American right of choice.

http://www.stopstupak.org

I don’t understand the idea that public funding for abortion is a moral imperative. Religious conservatives don’t ask you to pay for their Bibles. Why do you insist that they pay for your abortions? It is you, and not religious conservatives, who are attempting to use the coercive power of the State to impose your personal beliefs on others.

Because women’s reproductive issues are health related and legal?

Why do so many insist that they can impose their religious views on others by requiring that abortions be the only legal medical procedure that is not covered? Why should women have to pay for Viagra or Cialis pills for men?

Oh and it was the Catholic Bishops and the Fundamentalists who are imposing their moral views on the rest of us. After all, no one is requiring you to get an abortion if you don’t want one so how is abortion availability “Using the coercive power of the state?” Isn’t legislation that requires a woman to do something against her will using the “coercive power of the state to impose your personal beliefs on others?”

Oh right. It’s always OK when you say it.

But nice straw argument on the bibles. At least you’re original with it.

Because they oporate as a church.

We are called to protect the rights of the person in the womb whose right to life are imposed upon. Cosmetic breast enlargement is a medical procedure. Perhaps you want to pay that with tax dollars?

Abortion is being used as birth control. Usually, if a woman has to have one it’s because she feels abandoned or fears abandonment if she has the baby.

Right. So the way to do that is to cut out all medical care for pre-natal, blame the woman for having sex by forcing her to carry an unwanted baby and then leave her with no support system whatsoever once the child is born. And yes, the woman has every right to fear abandonment as the actions of the “righteous church-goer” have often shown far more concern for the fetus than for the child after birth.

Don’t try to lay any of your pseudo righteous guilt on me. Cosmetic breast surgery is not something that I would have covered (although breast reconstruction after a mastectomy should be). But you miss all the reasons why a woman might need an abortion, beyond the ‘choice’. And cosmetic breast surgery is not being made more difficult to receive and blocking insurance companies from even offering it as part of the plans available

And how will you enforce it? Make pregnant women stay locked up until the child is born? Your self righteous sanctimony is as disgusting to me as you probably feel that I am for actually believing that all of this falls in the “none-ya” category.

So leave your “calls” in your church and keep them the hell away from the laws of the land. Keep your beliefs where they do not infringe on the beliefs of those who belief differently than you do.

I don’t like to see my tax dollars spent for the death penalty, for wars of aggression against Iraq, for incarceration of people for non-violent crimes, for military weapons systems that were obsolete when the USSR dissolved. You seem to miss the concept that we are ALL paying for things with our taxes that we don’t agree with. It comes with reality of life as a nation. You get no more of an opportunity to ppick and choose than I do which is none. Live with it and get over yourself.

Abortion is a medical procedure in the sense that you want to have a medical professional to do it, just as you do with plastic surgery. But in the great majority of cases, it’s not done for a medical purpose, i.e., not done to preserve the life or health or the woman. It’s done because the woman decides not to have a baby.

Many reasonable think abortion generally is the taking of an individual human life (I’m not one of them.) MOST Americans think abortion after about 5 months is pretty damn sick and pretty damn evil. The Supreme Court has spoken, and virtually all abortions are constitutionally protected. But Ann Coulter does not get the community at Firedoglake to pay her book advance when she engages in constitutionally protected speech. NRA members don’t get funding from the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence to support their constitutionally protected right to buy and carry guns. And those who get abortions should use the power of the State, i.e., taxation on pain of jail, to coerce their neighbors to pay for the procedure.

Most of the abortions performed in the late second and third trimester are in fact for the life of the woman, so I guess saving a woman’s life is pretty damn evil.

Do you think taxpayers should be paying for Viagra and Cialis under the health care plans and insurance exchanges? Isn’t that a similar situation as paying for the abortion?

If the child is not wanted, would you have the woman be forced to carry it to term? What then? How much more does it cost to deal with unwanted children? If poor women cannot afford an abortion, are you willing to help pay the tab for the child abuse and neglect system to protect the unwanted children? Or the sicknesses and injuries because someone has been forced to have a child they did not want and probably can not afford? Isn’t in fact allowing abortion coverage into the exchange the more economical route and better for the total society?

Or is it just a bad thing that a woman had sex? Especially since so many of the same folks who are ardently anti-abortion are just as ardently anti-contraception, anti-sex education, and plain anti-sex?