Paul Krugman, columnizing (yes, I felt like inventing a new word) in today’s New York Times, calls this a “defining moment” in the health care reform debate:
[E]veryone in the political class — by which I mean politicians, people in the news media, and so on, basically whoever is in a position to influence the final stage of this legislative marathon — now has to make a choice. The seemingly impossible dream of fundamental health reform is just a few steps away from becoming reality, and each player has to decide whether he or she is going to help it across the finish line or stand in its way.
Krugman then sketches out the landscape: The GOP (Krugman calls them “conservatives”) has made their bed; they will oppose any attempt at reform. They like being anti-government; they love being anti-Obama.
For what Krugman calls “progressives,” he admits the choice is harder. “We” want more, but there is much in this bill to build upon—and the “medium-strength public option” will cover more people and reduce the deficit over the next decade. Progressives, Krugman surmises, will advocate and/or vote “Yes.”
El Nobel c. 2008 then tackles the “self-proclaimed centrists”:
The odd thing about this group is that while its members are clearly uncomfortable with the idea of passing health care reform, they’re having a hard time explaining exactly what their problem is. Or to be more precise and less polite, they have been attacking proposed legislation for doing things it doesn’t and for not doing things it does.
Thus, Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut says, “I want to be able to vote for a health bill, but my top concern is the deficit.” That would be a serious objection to the proposals currently on the table if they would, in fact, increase the deficit. But they wouldn’t, at least according to the Congressional Budget Office, which estimates that the House bill, in particular, would actually reduce the deficit by $100 billion over the next decade.
Or consider the remarkable exchange that took place this week between Peter Orszag, the White House budget director, and Fred Hiatt, The Washington Post’s opinion editor. Mr. Hiatt had criticized Congress for not taking what he considers the necessary steps to control health-care costs — namely, taxing high-cost insurance plans and establishing an independent Medicare commission. Writing on the budget office blog — yes, there is one, and it’s essential reading — Mr. Orszag pointed out, not too gently, that the Senate Finance Committee’s bill actually includes both of the allegedly missing measures.
All fair points, but Krugman leaves us a group short. He forgot the White House.
Clearly, the Obama administration wants a “victory”—but what they want that victory to look like is not the same as just saying they are “supportive” of the bills that came out of the House and Senate this week. It is funny to see Krugman quote Orszag referencing the Senate Finance Committee bill. . . OK, not funny—revealing—for it is the Baucus bill, the Max Tax, where the administration’s collective heart, such as it is, lies.
While Reid’s merged bill contains a public option, and Pelosi’s merged bill contains a public option, the SFC bill does not. As a result, the reform victory that the White House is choosing in this defining moment is one that would honor sub-rosa deals cut with AHIP and PhRMA last spring. While the administration’s mouthpieces were all “good on ya’” in public for Harry & Nancy, it has been made clear from the leak-o-rama (or should I say “leak-o-Rahma?”) that they are not only not pleased with the current House and Senate offerings, they still hope to work their backstage mojo magic to re-craft them back to their bipartisany, pro-corporate wants. If they push hard on that front—push for “triggers” to be inserted, for Medicare drug price negotiations to be removed, etc.—then what has this moment defined?
If I were in the inner circle of the Obama administration, I think now would be a good time to look in the mirror. Then, as hard as it might be, what with that whole “left is right” thing, then decide which side—whose side—you want to be on. Do you want to lead, obstruct, or get out of the way? It is after all, a defining moment.




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The biggest mystery for me is not where Obama IS, or why, but why did he take HC on at all? He handed it off to a Congress that would surely reaffirm their mission (reelection and obstruction) and hand him back either an unpalatable ‘success’ or a withering defeat…
Strange that they would place all their political capital (chips) on a hand they were guaranteed to lose (or look terrible just barely winning).
what
the
fuck are they drinking over there at 1600?
Cherry koolaid.
My theory is that the Democratic Party is so infested with process wonks that they can only think about “putting a W in the D column”, and only in the immediate term. It’s all process and two-party competition. The policy people aren’t part of the decision making, and no one in the party even cares what the long-term political consequences will be.
An individual mandate at today’s prices would be political poison, for example, but we came very close to getting exactly that. Democratic foresight seems to extend about into the middle of next month.
The sad, toxic thing is that a lot of the rank and file are process wonks too, so even out in the general public you’re always going to end up finding yourself arguing some nobody who’s talking deep seventeen-dimensional strategy. It’s like the Society for Creative Anachronism is a demographic and wants us to replay one of the the great sausagemaking episodes of the past.
Health care in Israel is both universal and compulsory, and is administered by a small number of organizations with funding from the government. All Israeli citizens are entitled to the same Uniform Benefits Package, regardless of which organization they are a member of, and treatment under this package is funded for all citizens regardless of their financial means. According to a 2000 study by the World Health Organization, Israel has the 28th best health care in the world.[1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Israel
We give Israel Cash, Aid, Weapons etc but they have healthcare and we don’t.
It seems Wrong to me to give a country aid when they got better than we got!
I want the same Healthcare Israel has Holy Joe has no problem giving my tax dollars to Israel so they can have better healthcare than I do. Thats Wrong.
Its not Israel bashing when you want to be treated equal to an Israeli. It is America Bashing for an American Senator to Treat Israeli’s better than Americans.
I assume he is correct about the progressive throwing in the towel and voting for something that does not include a strong public option, as they all pledged to do. This is why nobody takes them seriously and why they never get anything done.
This bill is a disaster waiting to happen it seems. A huge new regressive tax on the poorest. If the GOP were pushing for this bill I think everyone here would be loudly fighting against it.
This is why I think McCain would have been a less dangerous president.
The general public don’t seem to know what’s going to hit them (which makes me suspect that the Republicans are deliberately keeping quiet about it for now because they want the bill to pass too). Actually the progressive movement doesn’t seem to know either.
An amazingly skilled political operation, and once Rahm is in the mix, the whole shooting match goes to hell.
Where is Ax, or Val Jarret? This is beyond tone-deaf.
At some point I wondered why Obama bothered going through the motions of reforming health care if he wasn’t willing to jump in and fight for the people. The corporations have their own hired guns (and congress-critters) they don’t need the president working for them too.
I don’t usually bother trying to figure out his motives anymore and I do not believe as some do that he is playing multi-dimensional chess. I suspect eCAHN was right from the beginning when she identified Obama as a corp tool.
If anything good comes from all this, it will be because of Congress and the pressure placed on them and DESPITE the counterproductive actions of the White House.
I was somewhat puzzled at Krugman’s column and was headed over to give him [and his readers] the benefit of my profound wisdom when, lo, the damn comments were “closed”. At 9:30 am Eastern Time, with only 16 comments.
Usually I’m shut out because by the time I read anything [like Frank Rich] on “Maui time,” which is 6 hours behind NYC, the comment door has long been closed.
But here I am in NYC, and they’re still shutting me out!
Anyway, I was going to ask what he expected us progressives to do, when the health care proposals were all such steaming piles of crap, likely to burden the Democrats with their stench [mandates + no cost controls] for decades to come.
I care more about my country than I do some politician’s [i.e., Obama's] “success.”
If Joe is so worried about the deficit then aid to Israel goes first. How many decades has Israel been on the dole?
Could be. Seal the deal in corporate interest’s favor for the next 15 years and move on to climate.
Not usually naive, I can not argue with this theory, given what we can see from this vantage.
Very good question its been troubling me too.
Reminds me of Kerry – didn’t so much lose in 2004, but just refused to win. Could not be bothered or something.
The odd thing about this group is that while its members are clearly uncomfortable with the idea of passing health care reform, they’re having a hard time explaining exactly what their problem is. Or to be more precise and less polite, they have been attacking proposed legislation for doing things it doesn’t and for not doing things it does.
Sorry Paul, but this mush could be Richard Fucking Cohen.
A tip: They’re bought whores. Who’s the worst bought, and for how much. Such things might be relevant to a discussion.
They are lying and they have nothing but constantly shifting Reasons.
True he never fought back against the Swift Boaters.
As I mentioned it is probably useless trying to discern motive, Obama keeps his cards close to the vest. I would venture to guess that what we perceive as corporate servitude he probably views as pragmatism.
I’m thinking Obama was supposed to do health care badly. Get it done, but not hurt the big money in health care, and that would be the end of it for a generation. At least, that’s what he’s trying to do. Like how he’s taking care of banking, and Wall Street. Says all the right words — does all the wrong things. Maybe I’m missing something.
Just now, reading about the “centrists,” and how they just talk nonsense. They can’t say anything true. It’s like they have no conception of what’s going on. It bothers me that they even get to vote. The longer this goes on the more cynical I get. If there was a chance Republicans were really on the way out, I’d say scuttle everything and wait for single payer.
Funny how rarely the subject of campaign contributions by Big Insurance, Big Pharma, etc. gets mentioned by the Villagers… almost as if they serve the same masters. Oh, they do? Never mind.
It feels that way. This isn’t over, but he is spending all he has on a lose-lose, and he will not come out from behind his ‘bi-partisanship above all else’ stance (or crouch).
We need to courage to demand a better deal. Obama declared Swine Flu a National Emergency cases of sick people are still growing a real bad flu season and we can get a better bill passed.
My brother who has healthcare was coughing up blood recently because he was sick I’m guessing every voter who coughs up blood is a vote we can count on.
Has your brother seen a doctor? I hope he’s okay.
He’s fine now Thanks for asking thankfully the kids didn’t get as sick as he did.
But how could it be viewed by Obama, or historians, as pragmatic to squander the certainty of an historic legacy? Especially presiding as the first black president?
How can the WH be so utterly deaf and blind. The base is not buying what is going on and is very disappointed in Obama. Many of these people will be gone for good. They don’t seem to get this. You can’t alienate this many voters and stay in office.
Exactly! One of the roles of the Democratic faction, when in power, is to pass things that are so dire and inimical to regular Americans that the GOP could never get away with them. (See Clinton, NAFTA, welfare reform.)
Glenn Greenwald has many examples of bad bills passed after the (D)’s took over congress in 2006, bills that the (R) congress let lie.
Watch out, if Obama gets a 2nd term, he may come after Social Security.
He worships at the alter of triangulation. If time permits maybe he’ll invite the historians to a beer summit.
I think he can stay in office. I mean, what the hell is the Left going to do?
If this were foretold in June ’08 (actually, it was), and it was still Obama against McCain, what would we have done?
Anybody here think Tim Pawlenty is a better alternative?
This must be what they are counting on.
I don’t think Obama gives a shit about his legacy. Or he thinks he can talk his way into a glowing Hollywood legacy.
That’s basically what his snot-nosed reps at NN08 told me.
We have to come to terms with the lack of leadership and lack of quality in Obama as president. True, he is not McCain. The only thing we can do is primary as many of the fuckers as we can. And figure out how to save the lives that will surely be in jeopardy.
What can we do to save ourselves, our family members, our friends, and our neighbors? We can’t all move to France.
I am not saying it’s meritorious, but it is real.
pow wow is right – the solution is bottom-up accountability, and it’s about the money. This is going to take a while, so we might as well get started.
Go Howie Klein.
We have the polls on our side we can push him Left. Blanche Lincoln, Harry Reid how many Center Dems will survive the next election?
I understand forces trying to re-write history daily, but this spotlight is way too bright. Both in relation to the issue and to the principal, the fact that the country is pretty solidly behind a strong public option, if not single payer, makes wiggle room impossible.
Unless, Obamarahma is convinced there will be no media other than the corporate media in the very, very near future.
I fear you are right. I am amazed that the internet has not been taken down yet.
Yes, and that is what we (and by we, I mean Jane) are doing.
The operation in Nevada is brilliant – Reid does not know which way to turn. His own party is attacking him from the Left and the Right, and the ‘other’ Right is sitting back and laughing all the way. It is what I would do if I were them.
Chances are he will not emerge using strength, but will slither through and hope for the best. And Obama will be sure to stump heavily for his embattled leader…
Maybe he will take Lieberman along.
Maybe he will take Lieberman, his mentor, along.
There are still a surprising number of people who believe Obama can do no wrong, that what we perceive as indifference or incompetence or even corruptness is just part of some master strategy.
Anyway, if he thinks about his legacy at all he is probably banking on historians saying, “Well, at least he wasn’t as bad as Bush.”
It kills me, but you gotta hand it to him – Lieberman is a detestable cretin, but he does know how to wield whatever it is he is wielding. He knows exactly how much shit the Democrats will tolerate, and he plays them like fiddles. Amazing.
Who can know what Obama really knows or thinks. But I think he has acted like he has thought these seriously dysfunctional institutions such as business, health care,education, the armed forces (and their wars), etc. are all just dandy and only need some tweaking to make them more attractive to the people; then let the country will run itself just fine the way it is. But he has inherited a country with all the damned wheels coming off at once.. Someone, and soon, is going to have to tell the administration it’s going to take radical measures, the longer they “dither” ultimately the more radical the measures .
As to how the Senators vote, doesn’t it seem they decide the vote then cast about for a good sound bite reason?.
That would require him to take a strong position, something I’ve never seen him do.
Let’s face it, he wasn’t even as good a campaigner as it seemed at the time. Hillary was undermined by infighting among her staff and the McCain campaign was a confederacy of dunces.
Obama got into the Senate because his Republican opponent self-destructed. He skated to the top and now that he has to focus on the hard work of governance he is falling short.
Don’t forget the GOP is even less popular than Harry and they have stayed unpopular for months this is not a fluke and nothing the GOP has done has boosted their popularity. The country wants change. We can win this.
Hmm. That might just work if not for the collateral damage (evidence) of resulting foreclosures and bankruptcies scuttling the story. Unemployment numbers, too.
Good enough campaign to be elected while Black. Good enough to swing Virginia and Ohio and Pennsylvania and Indiana, and a whole bunch of states that Bush clobbered in, twice. Good enough to more-than squeak by McCain.
I will grant that he was more effective at campaigning for president than he is at being president.
I do not believe that Dems will be able to muster anything close to the massive voter turnout of ’08 in ’10, ’12, or ’16 for that matter.
On this we agree. I just think that the Republicans are so damned bad that Obama needs that much less to win.
He has lost my money and my industry for sure, and that seems to be widely-held.
Agreed, ain’t gonna happen. Not saying the R’s are gonna shine, but…
Greg, best call on this crap that I’ve seen.
Good on ya hoss.
Masterful insight on it all.
And the dem party is goin down for their plays, all at the hands of the corporate feudalists.
I just don’t understand what the Dem’s don’t get, that we the people will sell them out cuz they sold US out.
Stupid is as stupid does, and this is a pivotal moment in history.
And the dem’s have failed to stand up for the people.
And they will pay for it, and we’ll all suffer for it.
Great post Greg, thanks for all you do.
oh yeah
The GOP is even less popular than Obama.
Why don’t we lauch a visible “Boycott the Vote” campaign. That maybe would throw some fear into the Ds.
Ell-i-ott!
Up late?
With Stoly.
Even less than Bush. Approaching Dick numbers.
Dude, rich fucks control it all.
Make it simple, hoss.
I read in a local (Ohio) source that there’s an uptick in voters identifying themselves as Republicans. Things are not good here.
I’m in, if we’re getting in the streets.
I’m probably more concerned about the midterms than 2012. If the GOP has a rising star in the presidential field it should be apparent by now. Not suggesting it can’t happen but I think Obama will have to screw up REALLY spectacularly to lose his reelection bid.
Calling it a night, wishing a splendid evening to all.
TCU that’s all about profiteering and selling weapons, and all that corporate whoring our Congress and White House is bought off to do.
Love ya hoss, but can we get some new slants on this shit?
OR, beat the SHIT outta the slants we got, and ram them thru?
Please?
So they are bucking the national trend as seen in the polls, or the polls are BS?
And I’m not being an ass – I am asking.
Note: not mutually exclusive from me being an ass, but in this particular instance…
Sen. Ron Wyden thinks people who don’t like the health insurance they have should have the option of the public option, when it becomes available. Who’s against that? You might be surprised.
We are all endlessly guilty of evolving slants.
Anybody remember what it used to feel like when we heard the word “Hope?”
Doesn’t have quite the same ring now.
Hey whatever works I’m open to ideas:)
nite ratfood
Your tip is solid.
Not sure what you mean, but I’ll say we the people are gonna go apeshit on a lack of real reform, and just KILL the dem’s in ’10 and ’12.
I’m gonna go, Monday, and change to Independent, from Dem.
And I don’t care, I’ll bury dem’s for this, out of spite, every election I can
Crazed, sure. But hey, send a message!!!
yeah, the country wants change, but all that is on offer is a false choice between 2 squabbling factions of a corporatist war party.
the Obama Admin is delivering a great teaching moment to those who still believe they are under some kind of obligation to vote Democratic, no matter what.
those who desire to wake in the morning with a clear conscience cannot have a vote for the party that expends untold thousands of dollars every minute for stupid wars, then removes the historic opportunity for real health care reform by excluding Single Payer from consideration.
Have I mentioned I love what you and Ron brang to teh table?
Bless yas, both, Mary.
Bless yas.
*G*
Krugman irritates me more and more. (As does Roubini for other reasons) He goes all gushy over the prospect of a healthcare bill passing that he doesn’t even bother to ask if it will work. And that’s important because what we are seeing as the range of likely results are not going to work. Healthcare will not be universal. Costs will not be controlled and it will remain unaffordable to use for many. With victories like this, what would defeat look like?
The War Has Many Fronts.
More, better dems and work on a third party at the same time. People will start to participate in national strikes. They will have nothing to lose. More and more people will lose loved ones or their homes or their jobs.
Thanks Mr. L.
We have some very cranky people here. This area was strongly for Perot….I heard it was one of the highest vote regions for Perot.
So it could be people are just expressing their all-around fed-upness with unemployment going on 10+ years now, etc. I’m guessing.
Agree!
Hey you guys, Eureka is up top.
I’m aligned with your posits.
And I’m angry about what we have to deal with.
I’ll let history resolve itself.
Today’s assignment must have been to make up new words. Sirota made up controversialize without a blink.
Why Roubini?
N Bless You N Ron. *G*
Interesting conceptuation.
Since Roubini got his reputation, he has been waffling a lot. I found his take on the “recovery” to be unmitigated mush, as in if things get better they will get better but if they deteriorate they will get worse. John from Sacramento had a diary on Roubini and the current bubbles and my criticism there was that he was talking about things there that we have been discussing for months.
I think you are close with “process wonks”. It’s a place infested with managers but no engineers or architects. They kicked out the people who want to fix things like health care, global warming, war… They are the keepers of the status quo…the corporate state…the corporation of America…Democracy, Inc. Archer Daniels Midland motto: “The consumer is the enemy. The competitor is our friend.” Substitute citizen and other party and you understand why we are so screwed.
Remember it’s Rahm.
Rahm calls the shots, Obama makes the speeches.
great comments by you and JohnEmerson @3. thanks.
Generally respected people like Krugman, Dean and Weiner come to the belief grudgingly that the net result from the proposed bills do more good than harm. They believe that the process of trade offs is inevitable.
More money going to insurers is acceptable if it also leads to more people covered by insurance. A PO with very limited scope is good even if provides minimal competition, moreso given that it was very nearly gone just a few weeks ago. The proposed restrictions imposed on private insurers is better than no restricions at all, the ability for HHS to bargain for lower drug prices for the PO is something anyway. And the fact that there is nothing to prevent cost increases by insurers is just overlooked, since the overall price tag comes within the set target.
From this perspective trade offs are accepted as being unavoidable. But of course they are not. And at this point nothing short of widespread protest will make a difference. And this time what should be demanded is not the PO which is just to easy to undermine, but rather for a more expansive Medicare. To this end we should demand that the Kucinich amendment that proposes Medicare to all be voted upon and ideally scored by CBO.
Perhaps Medicare could be phased in to cover the lowest income earners first, while allowing anyone else the chance to buy into Medicare as premium holders if they so choose.