I predicted back then that the conversation probably went something like this;

“I did not expose a covert asset since I have the authority to de-covert the asset, thus she was not a covert asset and there can’t possibly be a crime since I have authority to declassify on the fly”

let’s see how close I am

back then Cheney went on his treason tour just to make believe “through executive order I have been given authority to declassify on the fly”

I forget which interview but just like his later day torture tour, he did that to inoculate himself from the treason he committed against this nation

Finally.
I can’t wait for Marcy to dissect that but good!

Valerie was Our spy to expose her identity during time of war is Treason. Treason during wartime the Death Penalty lets see Mary Cheney waffle that question!

I have authority to declassify on the fly”

True but is that legal? I have never understood the Rational for a VP with no Real Authority to have this power even if it is legal.

Monumental scandal to whom??

Plame never suffered any negative consequences. The public found out a little more about Joe Wilson angle on the deal. In fact, in the Dec. 5, 2003 Meet the Press Time Russert got him to admit that he HAD in fact found some reason to indicate Iraq has some intentions in regard to Niger uranium. Specifically, he said the Niger officials told him the only reason they could think of for Iraq requesting a meeting with them was about uranium. Joe conveniently left that out of his NY Times op ed.

The “leak” only showed how he got into the picture. It never explained why he lied in his NY Times op ed.

And, yeah the above is absolutely correct. I TIVO’d the show at the time and watched it several times to make sure I heard it correctly.

So you consider having her career ruined and her network compromised is “…never suffered any negative consequences.” I won’t bother to read the rest of your comment.

“Plame never suffered any negative consequences.”

Yeah, having her career destroyed and having her family threatened ain’t nothing.

Yer a moran.

Is it not true that exposing Plame also blew the cover of a front company, and therefore, all of its assets? I seem to recall something like that. Sounds pricey to me – in a number of ways.

Mr. Cheney’s near total amnesia regarding his role in this monumental Washington scandal – resulting in the conviction of his top aide – shows why.”

I assume he took the fifth however just how does Darth keep his security clearance if he Can’t Recall or won’t answer questions about who outed Valerie?

You’re being kind. The mods would certainly put me on probation if I said what I’m thinking.

No negative consequences? Well..if you don’t count that whole legal morass thing, as well as wrecking a whole network that was working on weapons proliferation issues.

Please see #7 at line #3.

I believe he will claim that he did not expose a covert asset since he declassified her “on the fly”

this is the very reason he made the claim that he had this non existant authority

however bush will back him up and that will be that

Yup.

Come, let ‘s talk in the real world. Plame career was not ruined. Give me some proof of some actual assignment she didn’t get. In fact, she became famous from this, and I am sure has help her and Joe earn a few extra bucks.

The Decider decided he should keep it.

Monumental scandal to whom??

Plame never suffered any negative consequences.

Her career as a spy over all of her contacts in foreign countries probably dead. Valerie was researching Nuclear Proliferation North Korea or Iran nukes someone well maybe we could have found out they had a nuclear program sooner if Valerie and also everyone at her CIA front company were not exposed as spies.

I cannot believe for one second it’s legal

I cannot beliieve a president can just delegate this kind of authority and I don’t even believe a president has the authiriuty in the first place, I believe only congress can do that

ianal

how bizarre that post

you have NO idea what kind of negative impact this exposure had SINCE it’s classified

she was a valuable asset tasked with covert operations, as bush’s own head of the cia acknowledged

but go ahead, protect traitors, it’s what these “party loyalists” do

Not a speculated assignment. No one showed that this front company was ruined in any practical sense.

And beside, Wilson flat out lied. He didn’t deserve any cover. Quite a bit of extra work, trouble, fighting between both sides–liberal and conservative–over a lie.

That is of no consequence to a Republic troll, sadly.

“I cannot beliieve a president can just delegate this kind of authority…”

But what if the president is The Decider? Doesn’t that pretty much trump everything else?

Again, please provide specific proof. The real world is that she was not doing any covert operations and likely never was going to in the foreseeable future. No one has provided any proof to show it was not different than the very apparent case I’ve stated above.

She hadn’t done anything in a while and wasn’t going to, and I have not seen any concrete proof otherwise.

Okay, fenderhead, tell me when she resigned from CIA. You might have to look that up but I’ll be around.

You think the Wilson’s attorneys worked for free? If all you can see is the ability to make money I don’t even want to know about your value system.

Buh bye, troll.

not to mention the tasks she had at hand were laid to waste, not to mention the lives put at stake, everyone and anyone associated with her would now lose their covert abilities and their lives put in peril

not to mention the classified tasks ruined

but these people insist on protecting their standard barers even at peril their own nation

this is the power the noe cons have over these marionettes

That was the Bush Admin belief.

And, I am very open minded on this. If you can give me some specific proof of an assignment she didn’t get. Someone in an official capacity saying that she had been currently covert. Someone in an official capacity saying you was going to be covert again, but now couldn’t. Etc.

With that, I’ll will certainly change my mind. Otherwise, it is a big brouhaha over nothing.

I remember another time “the party” was more important then their own country, that “party” we all know and these neo-cons use the very same tactics

off to diner

I see the post has attracted our trolls, how nice

Without the claim that Iraq was looking to get yellow cake and make nukes would we have gone to war with Iraq? Condi’s Proof in a Mushroom Cloud speech?
Well just why would Darth worry about Joe Wilson unless he already knew that the Niger Yellow Cake story was false?
He outed Valerie to silence her note that he did not ask the CIA to provide him proof the Niger story was true.

Thats exactly what I was thinking.

And, I am very open minded on this. If you can give me some specific proof of an assignment she didn’t get

do you not understand what “covert” means

the fact that she was covert and then exposed means as a fact itself she could not be tasked nor complete her tasks

so how open minded do you want to be here cuase that’s all you need to see

Apparently Cheney couldn’t remember shit about any role he may have had.

If Joe Wilson had not lied, he would not have run up a big legal bill. Nor would the government.

She likely resigned for other reasons, as with her job there was no reason she could not have continued it as it was not covert. She got famous and quit like Sarah Palin got famous and quit her job.

very convenient lack of memory

Wow.
The ignorance is palpable.
Someone needs to spend a few DAYS reviewing the archives here.

She was a fucking SPY.

she became famous from this

and that is exactly what a fucking SPY needs for a successfull career. Are you really that moronic or are you just incapable of rational thought?

on edit;
because you seem to hung up on Joe Wilson and some percieved lie; it aint about Joe Wilson. Cheney had a covert operative, who work on none profliferation of nukes, outed for political reasons. Fuck your dodge about Joe Wilson and a NYT op ed.

Honest to god and no shit cregan, this was a monumental fuck up and cheney did it. He did it because he is a petty, vindictive, micro dick of a motherfucking warmonger. Your inability to come to grips with that does not change it.

If this troll was any denser s/he would be a singularity.

Monumental scandal to whom??

Happy to oblige. Here are the scandals that come to my mind in ascending order of seriousness:

1. Plame’s career as a NOC collecting intelligence on WMD proliferation was immediately ended, and she left the CIA. This is an obvious personal negative consequence.

2. Anyone in the Middle East that had had contact with her as a representative of Brewster-Jennings Associates would be under suspicion, and they and their families would be on the run from their local security services.

3. And in light of this, the CIA’s ability to collect HUMINT was severely, and perhaps permanently, crippled, because it’s no longer possible for a NOC in the field to guarantee secrecy, security and safety in return for cooperation from people with high security clearance working on sensitive projects in a nation that is regarded as a threat to the United States. This damage is what raises the accusation of treason.

4. Finally, there was a successful coverup orchestrated by the Office of the Vice President to conceal the origins of this treasonous act.

This has been a public service announcement.

All, note that the highest priorities of trolls are to lie continuously and to play havoc with any rational discussion on any subject.

We might all consider this and choose not only to “not feed the trolls”, but to ignore any and all statements they produce.

And lastly, this troll is at the very low end of the IQ scale. An IQ of room temperature would be far too kind.

My guess is you didn’t like it that we went off to Iraq with no proof, so I figured you think all positions should be based on some proof.

That’s all I’m asking for.

She wasn’t doing anything covert at the time, hadn’t in some time, and likely wasn’t going to.

Even a statement by some senior CIA official on the record, saying something like, “What a shame, her career was ruined and she will not get any covert assignments in the future.” Or, even, “What a shame, her skills will not be availabe to us in the future.” Anything.

True, I just haven’t been here lately and I kinda miss smacking them around, ya know?
I gotta go back to work now, finish ‘em off for me.

Thank you, although it won’t make the troll any less dense.

Due to the nature of her clandestine work for the CIA, many details about Plame’s professional career are still classified, but it is documented that she worked for the CIA in a clandestine capacity relating to counter-proliferation.[9][12][13][14]
Plame served the CIA as a non-official cover (or NOC), operating undercover in (at least) two positions in Athens and Brussels.[15] While using her own name, “Valerie Plame”, her assignments required posing in various professional roles in order to gather intelligence more effectively.[16][17][18] Two of her covers include serving as a junior consular officer in the early 1990s in Athens and then later an energy analyst for the private company (founded in 1994) “Brewster Jennings & Associates,” which the CIA later acknowledged was a front company for certain investigations.[19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

She wasn’t doing anything covert at the time, hadn’t in some time, and likely wasn’t going to.

Proof:)

I was thinking about 3 below plant life.

I guess you’re right. Kittens playing with a cockroach on its back is only fun to watch for a minute or two.

Again, I have not seen anything that contradicts the first stories which was that she HAD been a covert officer once upon a time but had not been in some time. And likely wasn’t going to be again.

So, it was no different than saying, Leon Panetta works at the CIA.

Hold on. cregan must consult the “Republic Talking Points Manual” for a response.

EXACTLY, you have proved my point. Long ago and not anytime recent and likely never again.

s
c
r
o
l
l

I agree: I thought about not feeding the troll, and then realised that it helps memory if one recites the facts from time to time.

And I bet cregan won’t pick up om my response.

That talking points manual has to be cleared through Limbaugh, right? And if they need a second signature, they send it over to Glenn Beck. Those Republics are all about maintaining good internal controls.

The Limp One is, indeed, the editor.

Sorry, I’m not like you and I don’t need to consult anyone. I saw the Meet the Press interview. You likely could get a transcript. Wilson said what he said. He dodged and dodged, but after about 3 minutes of asking the same question over and over–something Russert was really good at–Wilson finally admitted that there was some connection and the Niger officials knew it.

So he lied, and the consequences are his.

I’m thinking his/her promotion to cockroach is unwarrented. Or maybe your cockroach reference was metaphorical. Sorry.:)

Swopa’s upstairs
Frank Luntz Offers Bait to the Narcissist Caucus on Health Care Reform

and natch, Marcy has preliminary thoughts up on Cheney:
Cheney Interview Materials
and
Cheney Refused to Release the Journalists

Hey Cregan: Hows about you come back after the transcripts are thoroughly dissected and presented – with references and links? Let’s see how good your memory is then.

Metaphorical, roaches split when the light comes on. *g*

So then Valerie works in a cover job for CIA front company spies for us about countries trying to get nukes.
Sorry that makes her a spy. Why try and claim she isn’t a spy unless your worried about Darth being tried and Shot for Treason?

My list of four scandals stands unchallenged.

Run away, troll. There’s a good troll. But first, use a handkerchief to wipe up the slimy boogers you left under the bridge.

Let’s analyse.

1. Plame’s career as a NOC collecting intelligence on WMD proliferation was immediately ended, and she left the CIA. This is an obvious personal negative consequence.

What proof of this? That was in the 1990′s. Nothing recent. Certainly, even if what you say is true, there are many, many other jobs in the CIA that a good officer can do. So, she quit for some other reason.

2. Anyone in the Middle East that had had contact with her as a representative of Brewster-Jennings Associates would be under suspicion, and they and their families would be on the run from their local security services.

Have you heard any report of anyone being on the run from anyone? No because that was quite some time ago and again, nothing actually happened except a lot of hot air balloons filled from false indignation.

3. And in light of this, the CIA’s ability to collect HUMINT was severely, and perhaps permanently, crippled, because it’s no longer possible for a NOC in the field to guarantee secrecy, security and safety in return for cooperation from people with high security clearance working on sensitive projects in a nation that is regarded as a threat to the United States. This damage is what raises the accusation of treason.

Yes, I guess this is like the lawyers who want to expose the identity of CIA agents involved in the interrogation program. Again, practically speaking, not any likely real world thing happened. No proof of such. And, again, I have not seen even one statement on the record from one CIA official that says anything like what you just said in point 3. If your point was true, I am VERY sure there would have been several statements of this sort. That tells me, it did not actually have this effect. A statement like what I just mentioned could be made without compromising any activity–so there was no restraint on making such a statement if it were true.

4. Finally, there was a successful coverup orchestrated by the Office of the Vice President to conceal the origins of this treasonous act.

You think it a treasonous act. I am QUITE certain that if the NY Times had exposed some CIA agent wife of a Republican former official who had smeared Obama, let’say, you’d be cheering them on. Jumping for joy, calling it speaking truth to power and any number of buzz words.

This has been a public service announcement.

Be happy to.

Please see your “list” above

Please try to find some real proof and not speculation and opinion.

Proof? This isn’t a court. I’m telling you what I heard from people I know who know.

Now, run along. Silly little “proof! proof!” troll.

Proof! Proof!

Jeebus H. Crackers.

Teh STOOPID can get even STOOPIDER????

Who knew!!!!

Goddammed. Amazing shit, that.

Certainly at some point there has to be a cap doesn’t there?

Plame did indeed suffer damage. Her career as a covert operative – and one in a vital role at the time – was ended, and she was placed in such an awkward position at the Agency that she wound up retiring short of full pension pay.
Even worse, her cover agency, Brewster-Jennings & Assoc., was destroyed by the leak, and such cover agencies are expensive and time-consuming for our government to establish.
Worse than that, all our covert agents and their past, current and potential contacts abroad were put on notice that the U.S. government couldn’t be trusted to protect their identities.This did enormous harm to our intelligence-gathering capabilities and our national security.
Joe Wilson wasn’t sent to Niger to learn if “Iraq had some intentions in regard to Niger uranium”; he was sent to investigate whether or not a sale had already taken place, since the administration had forged documents that purported to show such a sale. When the administration finally turned the documents over to the UN and the IAEA, they were quickly proved to be forgeries.

Want a break from the troll?

Phoning in public

Hilarious

Yeah, well I also heard from people I know who know.

That is meaningless and you know it. It’s not a court, but before you go parroting accusations, you should examine whether they are ACTUALLY true and not just “everybody knows” (kind of like everybody in the Guatemala village “knew” the Americans were there to steal babies and so they killed them).

One of the great things about this web site is that it does contain links to documents, etc. to demonstrate accusations. That is first class. I am only asking something similar that would contain some actual proof and not opinion or speculation that:

Plame had been a covert agent in any remotely current time span. Was likely to be covert again. Any “assets” had been actually compromised. As I said, I am reasonable. Even just a statement on the record by an official stating that in general such had happened or that her career was ruined. Also, Plame could not file a suit asking for damages, as I think they did, if she continued to work at the CIA. If you still had your job, what kind of damages could you claim??

You’re going “Proof! Proof!” again. I’ve already told you about this.The problem is, you’re a “Proof! Proof!” troll, and you can never be fed enough proof to satisfy. You dispute every fact as opinion, like O’Reilly or Beck.

I’m not going to play. I’m letting you know I know your game.

Do you fucking Really think Darth would let any incriminating evidence become public??? Not when he had the magic classified pen in his cold scheming hand??
Give me a break all your BS is just that BS conjured up by pitiful right wing talking points of nothing meaningful…

Read Joe’s op ed again. He didn’t just say that there was no sale. He said he found not indication of any Iraqi involvement with Niger on this front at all.

He flat out lied.

The allegations on Plame and Brewster I addressed above specifically. As far as I have read, Brewster had served it’s purpose and was not operating any longer.

Face it, the Plame indignation was only plumped up to make a minor scandal into something HUGE to make Cheney and Bush look bad. which they already did, so it didn’t even accomplish that purpose in and incremental way.

The indignation was bogus. If the things you are all saying were ACTUALLY true, then Richard Armitage, the actual leaker, would have been arrested and prosecuted too. And, I think even Libby would certainly have been prosecuted for THAT instead of lying.

That is the acid test to me.

I hope someone examines Cheney’s testimony with a microscope to show he lied to the FBI. Lying to the FBI is a felony and I can not think of a man who would be better off incarcerated.

cregan

Patrick Fitzgerald will be very upset to have wasted all that time and money on a non-issue. I hope he doesn’t read your comments here today. It would be a crushing blow for him to learn the truth.

Also, you’re a bonehead.

Listen, if there was the facts you claim, both Armitage and Libby would have been prosecuted for that much more serious crime.

Since he did not prosecute either of them, I think it is incumbant upon you to show the proof that the US Attorney was wrong not to so prosecute. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

That is the acid test to me.

Purple, Brown or the Orange Blossom LSD???
“Remember the brown acid is bad”….. circa 8/1969

Well, why didn’t Fitzgerald bring charges against Armitage or Libby for exposing a CIA agent? If there is all this proof of it and it is so obvious, why didn’t he?

The burden of proof is on you to show he was wrong and should have gone after these two for doing what you said.

Nice unthinking response.

That is the great thing for those in power, and the ones after (new or embedded ala scotus) – TAINT the law and economy so ambigous and open to “interpretation”.

Boils down to Bush not having the authority to deputize another POTUS (specially not one doing what they were), thus treason or at least high crimes.

After making good on climate and econ (never gonna happen), the congress should impeach at minimum, and SCOTUS should allow jail.

Obama should allow the bowl movement to occur.

Dinner time, but I’ll check back to see if anyone does come up with something. As I said I’ve got an open mind.

Some Osley Orange Sunshine? *sigh*

We had one of these determined trolls yesterday and believe me, they just keep going and going. Try not to encourage them.

Nah I did the quick think thing on it. you know think on your feet…..sometimes..

But to your point do forget that we still don’t know but maybe 1% of the truth of what these criminals did in our name. Hey I don’t have the proof but when it quacks like a duck….
These guys where cloaked in lies from the very beginning… My proof… just look at their record of public statements and then what was uncovered by a minority of the few brave journalist who had the courage to expose what little Truth they could uncover…. even to date….

I saw 2 posts from yesterday heavily infested. I missed them and just had to ask what all the chatter was about. Senior moment, I guess. I haven’t read them in full but what little I did scan was ugly.

shit SD you still remember….

Very ugly and the troll didn’t have anything worth noting to say. But it went on for a loooooong time.

LOL Me likee Osley acid. Windowpane was the only thing comparable.

Over 200 comments on 1 of the threads. Man. I did see one comment that stabbed Raven, Norske and me while we weren’t on the thread.

Those were the days….

Couldn’t do that shit now if my life depended upon it. *double sigh*

This has gone on too far.

Proving up damages to an individual is not an element of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. If proven guilty, the defendant has committed an action of treason against the Nation.

Troll: you’ve conceded the commission of the act. You are defending treason. Own it.

Bravo Zulu.

Well, jayt was kicking some butt for you. He got so angry I thought he was going to have a stroke.

I saw part of that. Gonna have a few words to say to the troll next time he slithers out from under the bridge. Don’t like backstabbers.
Jayt’s got a heap ‘o thanks coming, too.

“She wasn’t doing anything covert and hadn’t for some time.”

Bulldada! An unclassified summary of outed CIA officer Valerie Plame’s employment history at the spy agency was made in a court filing by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, indicated that Plame was “covert” when her name became public in July 2003.

The unclassified summary of Plame’s employment with the CIA at the time that syndicated columnist Robert Novak published her name on July 14, 2003 says, “Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for who the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States.”

The employment history indicates that while she was assigned to CPD, Plame, “engaged in temporary duty travel overseas on official business.” The report says, “she traveled at least seven times to more than ten times.” When overseas Plame traveled undercover, “sometimes in true name and sometimes in alias — but always using cover — whether official or non-official (NOC) — with no ostensible relationship to the CIA.”

yup..sigh…

S/he’s gone but don’t count out lurking.

Please explain how Wilson saying ANYTHING would justify exposing a covert CIA agent?

Let’s assume the most innocent case and say that Cheney and Libby and Rove had no clue what her role was at the agency. Don’t you think that they should have checked with the Agency to confirm that they were not endangering National Security by exposing her for the crassest of political purposes?

Why not, instead, simply have the Wilson memorandum declassified…the one you claim shows that Wilson actually said (and thsi was not in a report by Wilson, but the record of a debriefer) that the officials KNEW that the Iraqi’s approached them for yellowcake (the same memo that points out that Wilson clearly asked if the Iraqi’s actually ever asked about yellowcake or any other item). BTW this memo clearly points out that this was the FM’s speculation…based on no tangible evidence.

Furthermore the meeting didn’t occur in Niger…it occurred at an OAS meeting in Morocco…at the very time when Iraq was attempting to gain Third World support for rescinding the embargo. No other reason for a meeting? I beg to differ.

There is no evidence that Iraq approached Niger for yellowcake. The FM specifically stated to Wilson that the Iraq Minister he met in Morocco at an Organization of African Unity meeting never said anything about yellowcake. He “inferred” that this was what the meeting was about. That’s speculation not evidence.

So are you saying that we went to war with Iraq based on some speculation by a Nigerien FM? Even though that same Minister said there was no evidence that Iraq had actually approached anyone about yellowcake? Never mentioned it? And could not have obtained it? And those points were confirmed by the US Commander to NATO and the US Ambassador to Niger.

The IAPA as written requires that there be probitive evidence that the individuals KNEW that the agent they exposed was covert. Fitz was unable to do that…although both their actions showed that they had intent to reveal Plames identity (repeated leaks) and knowledge of her CIA employment in a broad sense. In fact, both men knew that the documents they had seen that contained her identity were assigned Top Secret status.

Somehow the late Robert Novak disclosed that she was a covert agent. How that happened is still not clear. And why the documents about Wilson’s CIA authorized trip were farmed around the State Department, and through Armitage’s hands (a notorious blabber and leaker), rather than going directly from the CIA to Cheney is also a bit of a mystery.

@cregan:

I’m not sure I’m following your logic, so let me ask this . . .

Am I right in saying that George W. Bush in no way protected this country? After all, you can’t show me a terrorist saying “well, we were going to attack, but didn’t because of Bush and his policies”. Since there is no affirmative proof that he DID protect us, am I right to state that he didn’t?

Surely, her contacts were placed at risk by revelaing her activities as a spy? If I’m a bad guy, and I know my friend Johnny has been hanging around with Ms. Plame, and now I know she is/was a spy . . . isn’t Johnny going to accidentally fall down the stairs? A couple of times?

How on earth would we know what spy jobs she didn’t get? It’s not like there’s a list of spy jobs, who applied for them, and the reasons they were or were not chosen. You are asking for a CIA officer to say something like “yeah, we are planting agents in Bangladesh at the Acme Front Company, and we were going to use her because of her connections to Mr. Smith and Ms. Jones in the area (here are their addresses, by the way), but have now decided because of this to go with Bob Anderson as the agent for the mission.” Do you honestly expect the CIA to say something like that? Or are you demanding evidence you know wouldn’t be revealed (assuming it existed) to defend an argument? The CIA doesn’t talk about their spying activities, but the fact that they don’t talk about it doesn’t mean they aren’t doing it.

“No one showed that this front company was ruined in any practical sense.”

No, no, you’re right, I’m sure they kept on working undercover on nuclear proliferation issues after the front was exposed worldwide. I mean, why wouldn’t they?

You idiot.

Less heat, more light please.

Did anybody read the Cheney transcript? Any comments? There are 28 pages and it’s been a long day.

My first question from the note is: “Why is Rove so closely involved in policy discussions?”

and then later an energy analyst for the private company (founded in 1994) “Brewster Jennings & Associates,” which the CIA later acknowledged was a front company for certain investigations.[19]

Exactly. Why don’t you show us proof that she wasn’t covert at the time she was outed.

The fact that the CIA acknowledges that B&J “…was a front company…” shows me that it was very likely that at the time Plame was outed, still in operation but had to be terminated because of her outing.

I’m wondering why you don’t question Cheney’s convenient amnesia when he was questioned? I read all 28 pages and that was the first thing that jumped out to me.

As far as “proof” goes, common sense tells anyone that has it that there is none until one of those from the Bush administration grows a conscience…which is highly unlikely. All they have to do is say “I don’t recall…” when asked questions in which the truthful answer will show you the “proof”.

Oh, I had plenty to say. But, the problem is each person on this thread is ONLY going by well, “Everybody knows…” When you get down to it, nobody knows. Their entire viewpoint is based on opinion and speculation.

Since the US Attorney did not prosecute Armitage or Libby for “exposing” a covert CIA agent and causing great damage to the US, there is no proof that Plame was “exposed” or any damage was caused. And, the presumption must be there wasn’t actually any exposure or damage.

Plame had not been covert for some time, wasn’t likely to be again, and the front company had long been closed down. Not one CIA official ever said on the record even a general statement that Plame’s career was ruined or that any damage had been done.

So, really, it is as it appears, nothing much different than someone saying Leon Panetta works at the CIA. But, because blowing it up to be a big deal would taint Bush, it got blown up and became an ‘everybody knows..” story that really nobody knew.

If Fitzgerald had prosecuted either of the two leakers, then certainly, the burden would be on me to prove that she wasn’t a master spy going covert every day. But he didn’t, so someone needs to show me proof that Fitzgerald neglected his duty for not going after, even just arresting, someone for “exposing” a covert agent at great damage to the US.

Not one person had produced any solid evidence os such. So, I think Fitzgerald was right not to arrest anyone because no crime was actually committed and Plame’s situation was overblown to the end of making life a little more difficult for Bush.

And, by the way, yes, if Cheney lied he ought to be gone after. Even lying to the FBI in a case where no crime was committed is illegal.

Lastly, I know these boards exist partially to facilitate cheerleading of a progressive viewpoint. That’s fine. But, there are also some great thinkers here who engage in world class debate. That is what I am asking for in this instance.

If you want that debate, it’s long over. It happened as the events and the facts unfolded, with hundreds of people participating, and finished at least 2 years ago. It’s not going to start up again just for you.

If you are in earnest, you would do well to start with Marcy’s book “Anatomy of Deceit”. Some records of the events and debate are here and at The Next Hurrah. The FDL team that liveblogged the Libby trial earned the respect of the press for their knowledge, understanding, and accuracy.

Larry Johnson and Lawrence Wilkerson, both retired spooks, explained to a Senate Committee why what Cheney did was treason. Johnson joined the CIA in the same class as Plame. He blogs at No Quarter. He has no tolerance for trolls.