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	<title>Comments on: Pushing to Push &#8220;Personhood&#8221; Back to Conception?</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/24/pushing-to-push-personhood-back-to-conception/</link>
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		<title>By: upstateNYerMdwst</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/24/pushing-to-push-personhood-back-to-conception/#comment-2002175</link>
		<dc:creator>upstateNYerMdwst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 04:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=46683#comment-2002175</guid>
		<description>Okay, just reading this has made me furious. This issue was settled 36 years ago, and we STILL have people who refuse to accept that women are not the property of the Almighty Government! I thought the Party of Lincoln is supposed to believe in things like individual liberty, equality under the Law, and limited government. So how is it &quot;limited government&quot; when a State (or the Feds) commandeers a sovereign free person&#039;s body and forces its will upon her? 


The &quot;pro-life&quot; position is in direct violation of the 13th Amendment, which outlawed slavery in all of the States, plus federal territories, like DC. Forcing a woman to provide physical servitude, nourishment, blood, and forms of service to something/someone is a form of slavery!! Not to mention privacy and property rights (see 4th and 5th Amendments). Any and all &quot;pro-life&quot; laws are by definition unConstitutional.


The sad thing is, I live in MO, and our State government is heavily dominated by extremist wingnuts :(. If they succeed in putting it on the ballot (yeah, let&#039;s just put women&#039;s rights to a popular vote), sadly it will likely pass. DISGUSTING.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, just reading this has made me furious. This issue was settled 36 years ago, and we STILL have people who refuse to accept that women are not the property of the Almighty Government! I thought the Party of Lincoln is supposed to believe in things like individual liberty, equality under the Law, and limited government. So how is it &#8220;limited government&#8221; when a State (or the Feds) commandeers a sovereign free person&#8217;s body and forces its will upon her? </p>
<p>The &#8220;pro-life&#8221; position is in direct violation of the 13th Amendment, which outlawed slavery in all of the States, plus federal territories, like DC. Forcing a woman to provide physical servitude, nourishment, blood, and forms of service to something/someone is a form of slavery!! Not to mention privacy and property rights (see 4th and 5th Amendments). Any and all &#8220;pro-life&#8221; laws are by definition unConstitutional.</p>
<p>The sad thing is, I live in MO, and our State government is heavily dominated by extremist wingnuts :(. If they succeed in putting it on the ballot (yeah, let&#8217;s just put women&#8217;s rights to a popular vote), sadly it will likely pass. DISGUSTING.</p>
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		<title>By: taylorbad</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/24/pushing-to-push-personhood-back-to-conception/#comment-2002157</link>
		<dc:creator>taylorbad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 04:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=46683#comment-2002157</guid>
		<description>If this nonsense becomes the law of the land, the morning after pill will become the new contraband.  It will be smuggled into the country and the most unsavory types will be meeting up with our sisters and daughters and girlfriends and wives to sell them the means to de-personify their bodies. They will get rich at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If this nonsense becomes the law of the land, the morning after pill will become the new contraband.  It will be smuggled into the country and the most unsavory types will be meeting up with our sisters and daughters and girlfriends and wives to sell them the means to de-personify their bodies. They will get rich at it.</p>
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		<title>By: jerla</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/24/pushing-to-push-personhood-back-to-conception/#comment-2002054</link>
		<dc:creator>jerla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 02:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=46683#comment-2002054</guid>
		<description>I am flexible about the number of hands required to make a particular argument. Sometimes, I throw in both feet and a prehensile tail. It&#039;s quite a sight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am flexible about the number of hands required to make a particular argument. Sometimes, I throw in both feet and a prehensile tail. It&#8217;s quite a sight.</p>
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		<title>By: cinnamonape</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/24/pushing-to-push-personhood-back-to-conception/#comment-2002014</link>
		<dc:creator>cinnamonape</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:49:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=46683#comment-2002014</guid>
		<description>Well there&#039;s the way to defeat such bills...once the corporations realize that such bills will strip them of the &quot;personhood&quot; (and realize that such challenges will occur) they&#039;ll throw the full weight behind defeating these efforts. It would be ironic for a progressive  to sue a corporation in these states for claiming privilege as a person using this law. Maybe sue some rightwing church, or group, or big Oklahoma corporation that is run by the very conservatives pushing this law (Wendy&#039;s Restaurants, Dominos Pizza, Olive Garden, Outback).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well there&#8217;s the way to defeat such bills&#8230;once the corporations realize that such bills will strip them of the &#8220;personhood&#8221; (and realize that such challenges will occur) they&#8217;ll throw the full weight behind defeating these efforts. It would be ironic for a progressive  to sue a corporation in these states for claiming privilege as a person using this law. Maybe sue some rightwing church, or group, or big Oklahoma corporation that is run by the very conservatives pushing this law (Wendy&#8217;s Restaurants, Dominos Pizza, Olive Garden, Outback).</p>
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		<title>By: Synoia</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/24/pushing-to-push-personhood-back-to-conception/#comment-2001892</link>
		<dc:creator>Synoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=46683#comment-2001892</guid>
		<description>How many hands do you have?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many hands do you have?</p>
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		<title>By: Synoia</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/24/pushing-to-push-personhood-back-to-conception/#comment-2001891</link>
		<dc:creator>Synoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=46683#comment-2001891</guid>
		<description>Birth? 

The new universal pre-existing condition for universal health insurance denial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Birth? </p>
<p>The new universal pre-existing condition for universal health insurance denial.</p>
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		<title>By: Synoia</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/24/pushing-to-push-personhood-back-to-conception/#comment-2001890</link>
		<dc:creator>Synoia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=46683#comment-2001890</guid>
		<description>Personhood is protected from conception to birth. After that, kid, you are on your own. 

Can&#039;t get a good education? It&#039;s your fault, kid, you should have choosen better parents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personhood is protected from conception to birth. After that, kid, you are on your own. </p>
<p>Can&#8217;t get a good education? It&#8217;s your fault, kid, you should have choosen better parents.</p>
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		<title>By: earlofhuntingdon</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/24/pushing-to-push-personhood-back-to-conception/#comment-2001889</link>
		<dc:creator>earlofhuntingdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=46683#comment-2001889</guid>
		<description>Fertility clinics would immediately go out of business, unable to operate since their staff would all be in the state pen.  Likewise university researchers into causes of and cures for infertility.  Of course, all abortions would be illegal, no matter the rape, the incest, the mental or physical or economic capacity of the mother or family.

Even big pharma&#039;s at home pregnancy testing business would be immolated.  Who would buy a kit, confirming the knowledge that they were pregnant, and thus expose themselves to criminal penalties for that last drink, that last swim or volley ball game?  

Perhaps of greatest importance to Villagers who still have sex with fertile wives, which of them would dare have intercourse with a pregnant wife on the off chance that a subsequent miscarriage could be attributed to their nighttime domestic debauchery?  

The ranks of the nation&#039;s detective forces charged with investigating such crimes would swell to bursting with Kenneth Starrs and Monica Goodlings and Junior Schlaflys, while whole personalities departed it in droves.  Police work itself would be simultaneously disdained and raised to a priesthood.  The law itself would fall into greater disrespect, as it had when legislators attempted to ban liquor consumption.  Next up on the agenda will be a resurgence of blasphemy laws and the banning of sex outside of &quot;procreation in marriage, in the missionary position&quot;.  If &quot;successful&quot;, these troglodytes will create a wave of Mr. Hydes, one for each newly reverent Dr. Jekyll they legislate into existence.  

Methinks this is not simply about stopping all abortions.  It is about sending women and their liberation back to the Bronze Age from whence came our dominant Middle Eastern-based religions.  Never mind the occasional scientific progress we&#039;ve made since Aristotle, or the occasional enlightenment since Moses, since the peasant Jew usurped his authority, since the caravan administrator usurped his.  

To backers of such legislation, women are furniture.  They are work and pleasure slaves, idyllic matrons and, embarrassingly for them, necessary co-producers of family wealth.  They have to be kept in their place dontchyaknow, because men have to be kept in theirs.  Why is it that declining empires always seem to be such fertile ground for the violently desperate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fertility clinics would immediately go out of business, unable to operate since their staff would all be in the state pen.  Likewise university researchers into causes of and cures for infertility.  Of course, all abortions would be illegal, no matter the rape, the incest, the mental or physical or economic capacity of the mother or family.</p>
<p>Even big pharma&#8217;s at home pregnancy testing business would be immolated.  Who would buy a kit, confirming the knowledge that they were pregnant, and thus expose themselves to criminal penalties for that last drink, that last swim or volley ball game?  </p>
<p>Perhaps of greatest importance to Villagers who still have sex with fertile wives, which of them would dare have intercourse with a pregnant wife on the off chance that a subsequent miscarriage could be attributed to their nighttime domestic debauchery?  </p>
<p>The ranks of the nation&#8217;s detective forces charged with investigating such crimes would swell to bursting with Kenneth Starrs and Monica Goodlings and Junior Schlaflys, while whole personalities departed it in droves.  Police work itself would be simultaneously disdained and raised to a priesthood.  The law itself would fall into greater disrespect, as it had when legislators attempted to ban liquor consumption.  Next up on the agenda will be a resurgence of blasphemy laws and the banning of sex outside of &#8220;procreation in marriage, in the missionary position&#8221;.  If &#8220;successful&#8221;, these troglodytes will create a wave of Mr. Hydes, one for each newly reverent Dr. Jekyll they legislate into existence.  </p>
<p>Methinks this is not simply about stopping all abortions.  It is about sending women and their liberation back to the Bronze Age from whence came our dominant Middle Eastern-based religions.  Never mind the occasional scientific progress we&#8217;ve made since Aristotle, or the occasional enlightenment since Moses, since the peasant Jew usurped his authority, since the caravan administrator usurped his.  </p>
<p>To backers of such legislation, women are furniture.  They are work and pleasure slaves, idyllic matrons and, embarrassingly for them, necessary co-producers of family wealth.  They have to be kept in their place dontchyaknow, because men have to be kept in theirs.  Why is it that declining empires always seem to be such fertile ground for the violently desperate?</p>
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		<title>By: truthcritic</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/24/pushing-to-push-personhood-back-to-conception/#comment-2001886</link>
		<dc:creator>truthcritic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=46683#comment-2001886</guid>
		<description>A three-day-old embryo is a collection of 150 cells called a blastocyst.

From IVF: There are for the sake of comparison, more then 100,000 cells in the brain of a fly. The human embryos that are destroyed do not have brains or even neurones. Consequently there’s no reason to believe they can suffer their destruction at all it is worth remembering in this context that when a person’s brain has died we currently deem it acceptable to harvest their organs, provided they have donated them for this purpose and bury him in the ground. If it is acceptable to treat a human whose brain has died as less then a human being, it should be acceptable to treat a blastocyst as such.

http://www.eubios.info/ABC4/abc4058.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A three-day-old embryo is a collection of 150 cells called a blastocyst.</p>
<p>From IVF: There are for the sake of comparison, more then 100,000 cells in the brain of a fly. The human embryos that are destroyed do not have brains or even neurones. Consequently there’s no reason to believe they can suffer their destruction at all it is worth remembering in this context that when a person’s brain has died we currently deem it acceptable to harvest their organs, provided they have donated them for this purpose and bury him in the ground. If it is acceptable to treat a human whose brain has died as less then a human being, it should be acceptable to treat a blastocyst as such.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.eubios.info/ABC4/abc4058.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.eubios.info/ABC4/abc4058.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: DonQuisadorme</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/24/pushing-to-push-personhood-back-to-conception/#comment-2001879</link>
		<dc:creator>DonQuisadorme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=46683#comment-2001879</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s an obvious and fatal flaw in this kind of Christian &quot;thinking&quot;:  WHAT ABOUT IDENTICAL TWINS?

If &quot;personhood&quot;, whatever that means, starts at conception, then identical twins share a single personhood.  Does that mean that one of the twins can be killed later without committing murder?  Can they have their own distinct bank accounts?

The implications are many, laughable, and obvious to anybody who&#039;s not a complete fucking godtard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s an obvious and fatal flaw in this kind of Christian &#8220;thinking&#8221;:  WHAT ABOUT IDENTICAL TWINS?</p>
<p>If &#8220;personhood&#8221;, whatever that means, starts at conception, then identical twins share a single personhood.  Does that mean that one of the twins can be killed later without committing murder?  Can they have their own distinct bank accounts?</p>
<p>The implications are many, laughable, and obvious to anybody who&#8217;s not a complete fucking godtard.</p>
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