Good morning. I’m listening to democracynow right now. I couldn’t listen to Rachel live because I’ve had enough of fools, and can’t even bear to see them destroyed anymore.

Sorry BT I don’t see the guy as absolutely destroyed. I thought he handled himself well and he closed with an effective nationalistic rant. It’s all about what’s good for America, American ideals etc etc. That’s where liberals fall down. They let their ideas be framed as unAmerican.

Um, I think she did destroy him. Just because he didn’t start crying, it doesn’t mean that she was very affective. She spoke truth and he raised his teflon shield. So, I have to agree with BT.

The wingnut spokespeople are usually very well prepared & rehearsed. And they have to deal with only one topic for their entire working day, whereas Rachel deals with a broad range of topics, putting her at a disadvantage from the getgo, no matter how well prepared she tries to be. It’s an unfair fight, which is yet another reason why I switch off when she tries.

wasn’t
double negative

Good going Rachel. Thanks for being truthful.

Horseshit.

I was having trouble with the comments at Bonfire, so let me tell you (again) thanks for the advice. No pearls. But, it’s not door to door. The person standing in front of the Trader Joe’s with a clipboard.

Still, the broadest appeal is the blandest dress. No extremes.

Although I thought Rachel handled this well, I didn’t think Phillips came across as unsympathetically as I think she hoped he would. But the bottom line is that I simply don’t like these shoutfests when two (or more) people just talk over each other and voices are raised, even if it’s Rachel “destroying” someone who probably deserves it.

It’s why I watched (online) only a couple of minutes of Dylan Ratigan a couple of days ago, and bailed out when he started yelling and interrupting.

Lotta cross-talk. I missed alot of it.

This is just the close.

She methodically, over two segments, uncovered all of his sleazy corporate/RNC hatchetjobs.

Brilliant TV.

Fight erupts after council cedes BayWalk sidewalk

The guy being cuffed in the video is a disabled Viet Nam vet.

Back into me cammys and I’ve got the perfect sign for tonight.

NO JUSTICE
NO PEACE

Hurtful and Despairing? Grow a pair!

Awwww, she hurt his wittle feelings.

Pinched smile guy’s not happy.

Sister, I have no bland dresses! A dress with black background with small flowers, good style or black slacks and a jacket?

I liked the parasites line myself.

Above my pay grade! I’m sure you’ll choose something appropriate.

Not especially effective argument. The fact is liberal perceptions run up against the American perception of themselves as cowboy types able to take care of themselves. The problem with reforming health care is the feeling of lots of people that if you can’t make enough to buy health care you deserve what happens to you.

eCHANomics at 4. I agree with you. That doesn’t mean the problem doesn’t have to be addressed. We must frame the issues differently, attack the idea that we’re in this alone.

well, I don’t think he got destroyed either. I don’t think it was that good of an interview all around. Turn it up a few decibels and it’s FOX in the sense of two people just saying what they want to say at the same time. Although I think Phillips was stepping on Rachel and not letting her finish questions. Intentionally so because he was scardy-fraid of a real discussion. But otehrwise your response to the comment was on target. People aren’t buying “nationalistic rants” when they don’t have jobs or are worried about losing the one they have; when they don’t have health insurance or have crappy insurance or get it at work but worry that their contribution will go up when their pay won’t. Relying on nationalistic rants instead of policy proposals is where the Republicans fall down. They let themselves be framed as obstructionsis and the aprty of “no.” Wait. I guess that’s pretty easy ’cause they ARE obstructionists and the party of “no.”

Agree that the lefties could use some work on framing issues. They don’t seem to know their audience, except for preaching to the converted.

I only read the Tampa papaers occasionally but I thought the bayWalk situation was done. Guess not.

Where’s Citizen Flamethrower?

Rachel let in one talking point the Dork said he was winning at the grass roots level. More GOP trying to make things true by just saying it so. But aside from that Rachel had facts and passion this guy was wooden,pinched forced smile and well eCHAN right he had talking points but he was trying to stay on message to much.

The problem with reforming health care is the feeling of lots of people that if you can’t make enough to buy health care you deserve what happens to you.

No, the problem with health care reform is that the health insurance industry pays people like this to enhance that cowboy image promoted by St Ronnie of Rayguns. It’s not about liberal perceptions, it’s about people like Tim Phillips having unfettered access to corporate media to promote their agenda.

Near 10% unemployment is curing that

I vote for black slacks and a jacket. (Since you didn’t ask ME! LOL)

Why weren’t they cuffing the guy in the Hawaain shirt? He started it, no?

It had to have been tough to sit there while all your sleaze is being tossed out on MSNBC!

It surprised me that the guy stuck around for a longer session of being smacked around like that.

I, for one, was pleased to see and hear Rachel telling this guy off to his face.

I hope you are right about people not buying nationalistic rants, but I’m not sure. What you say is rational. Unfortunately, the process is irrational. If it were rational we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Health care reform would have been a done deal long ago.

Like a Hillary pantsuit ?

Sorry. I’ll do my best.
Speaking of framing issues, Robert Parry at Consortium News has a great article on The Policy of the Public Option. Sorry, again, I’m having trouble linking to it.
I think he’s a good writer.

I think they did go for that stuff until recently. CVould change back.

Well, he was able to keep repeating long-ago prepared rationalizations. For most of us, she was truthful and won the argument. In the unlikely event that any of his side were watching, he held his own. They know little about the Mariannas and could believe his explanation. Likewise, they would believe that rich peoples’ money is freedom of speech and civic interest. They would also accept his bullshit that the Chambliss add was only saying that Max Cleland did not have the courage to deal with the complexities of the terrorism threat, rather than impugning his personal courage in warfare. They could view it that she became frustrated and resorted to calling names.

I would rather have seen a demolition like that of Tom Ridge, or Congressman Weiner’s of Joe Scarborough, but admire Rachel’s ability and courage and think she held up her side alright.

Rachel accomplished this:

She made it clear his fear mongering is bad for the country. THAT has not been said to AFP folks by anyone in the mainstream media to date. She. Said. It.

Now, when AFP gets on other shows to spout, there is this Rachel moment, of calling out the fear mongering as bad for the country. Now, any other show will need to be looked at as presenting “news” or presenting a fear mongering soap box that is bad for the country.

Rachel began the framing. Fear is not a problem solving skill set. Our country needs positive, proactive problem solvers.

He was left just repeating his talking points and nothing more.

Sch00led

Thanks, Molly.
And, BFL, I do have Hilary hair.
Also, check out Funds Spent This Year By the Health Care Lobby Would Have Insured All Those Who Died From Lack of Insurance by Jim White.
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/9644

The mayor and the big money boys pressured the city council to revisit their earlier vote. Personally, I’d like to stay away from BayWalk for another year. If they fail they won’t be able to blame St Pete for Peace. If 2 1/2 hours of protests on Saturday nights spelled doom for the businesses at BayWalk I’d have to say their business model sucked. When BayWalk first opened it was the thing to do to go to the movies there and window shop at the upscale shops. Once the new wore off the crowds dwindled to nothing. The multi-screen venue drove every other theatre in St Pete out of business. Now folks go to Pinellas Park rather than go downtown. Folks were also getting tired of getting mugged in the parking garage that’s across the street and up the block. That’s not a protester issue but was mixed into the discussion with the intention of making us look like muggers.

I saw look at his face his stilted tone Emotional Voters I think pick up on these things more than us. Rachel is passionate and did not give ground to the dork being a woman thats extra points. Except for Emotional Voters who hate Femi Nazi’s I think she did lose that Demographic. The normal Emotional voters seeing a Lefty fight for once instead of just fold like Juan Williams on Fox should help us get Emotional Voters.
We need an image on TV of confidence and passion Rachel does that without crying or lying.

He did get arrested a few minutes later. Lot of old time St Pete for Peace folks in that video.

Well, not exactly — but sort of. Something that doesn’t stand out, something that doesn’t distract. And something that doesn’t lend itself to “Geez, did you see that DRESS she was wearing.”

Of course, I’m sure Demi has good taste and wouldn’t wear anything eyeball-spinning…

These shop owners GOPers or what Protesters buy food and drink they are customers and some of those customers I bet only come for the protest.

Obama needs to get that NOLA hospital funding on track now. Like today. Before the next news cycle and the Sunday gasbags get their teeth further into the issue as is Morning Joe with his announced plan-in-development to come to the aid of New Orleans which four years after Katrina still does not have FEMA funds for its hospital rebuilding. NOLA has no hospital.

I want to see John Stewart take AFP through a “Jim Cramer on Daily Show” moment.

THAT would be priceless.

My first town hall in a highschool the cheerleaders made a killing selling snacks.

I’ve never been inside the complex. Far as I know I’ve still got a trespass warning on me there. Mayhaps I’ll find out tonight. *g*

I just realized something the Dork Rachel was arguing with was acting the way fake liberals normally do on television when they take a dive.

i think chris floyd’s recent post is on target: The Reason for the Anger and Intractability of the Debate Over Health Care Reform in the United States:

One side is lying; the other side is not telling the truth.

*

Or to put it another way: One side is pretending that a wildly reactionary plan to further enrich rapacious corporations is really hardcore, gutbucket socialism from the Bolshevik trenches, while the other side is pretending that its “reform” is not really a wildly reactionary plan to further enrich rapacious corporations but something that will somehow, in some way, be good for some people at some point way down the line.

*

One often finds that dealing in such utter unreality makes it somewhat difficult to achieve workable solutions to real-life problems.

I respect Rachel for telling the guy she thought he and his ilk are parasites. Brutal honesty! We need more of it! I don’t care if they are on TV (and apparently neither does Rachel) the guy is a sleaze bag and she lit him up. He was very taken aback because he clearly admires her and wanted to make a good impression with his intellect. He expected to be thanked for spewing bullshit in a cool monotone and she let the real Rachel answer his drivel. Good for her!

Look if you don’t damage anything at your protest then why are they calling the police on customers?
Trespassing warnings keeping you and how many other potential customers out?
I hope the complex does go under we can claim Lefties customers felt slighted and left.

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Irak: 4349

US KIA Afghanistan: 877

US MBS 2009: 35,712

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.

Namaste

Agreed!

Yer cute. So, the upside is this is a full time job working for progressive agendas. The down side is all y’all would miss my sorry ass here. Well, maybe some of you would. I hope.

Comfortable shoes!

You know we would miss you Demi.

The majority of visitors to the complex cannot afford to shop there. A huge jewelry store on the corner of the block was, afaik, the first to fail. I walked by it every Sat nite for almost 5 years, seeing maybe 1 or 2 people in the store at any time, even when it was all new.

An excellent post at Naked Capitalism on government and corporate media messaging.

…maybe some of you would.

I would demi, even tho I haven’t crossed threads with ya in sometime…! ;-)

The majority of visitors to the complex cannot afford to shop there

When I hear about this kind of business planning I normally think of all of Bush’s failed business.

It surely has been ages. Likes ships passing in the night.
:o

Unsolicited opinion on your attire: black slacks and jacket or since you are in SoCal, neutral colored top. Basically you want your smile and approachability to be what people notice, not your attire.

Thanks for posting that. An excellent snip on the issue.

You know who had some good nationalist rants?

Hitler.

Oh, you won’t go away. You’ll just come by at different hours is all.

A full time job working for progressive agendas?? Where is this? Sign me up!!

(Does this mean you quit the job at the fitness place too?)

And yes, comfortable shoes fer sure. Some of the more dressy Crocs or Birkies, maybe.

Where is this? Sign me up!!

Ditto

You know who had some good nationalist fear rants?

Hitler.

Fixed it for you.

And I knew Mike Godwin in college so it’s okay if I break his damned law. ;)

Grassroots Campaigns. Maybe there is one in your ‘hood. They work for Sierra Club, Democratic Campaigns, etc. Currently it’s Amnesty International. Look them up. It only pays minimum wage, but what the hell. I’m still at the gym. But, I’d love this other gig, I think. Educating and fundraising. Think globally, act locally. Why not?

The problem (well, actually, two problems) I had with the RM interview was that Phillips kept interrupting Rachel when she was trying to make a point — a classic lawyer’s tactic to redirect the argument towards a position that’s favorable to you — and that she let him do it.

Liberals are always playing by the rules that they let conservatives make up for them . . . and they wonder why they keep losing arguments/elections, etc., etc.

The latest ploy being used by conservatives is their insistence in redefining exactly what insanity is. They don’t like the MSM portraying them as being a few cards shy of a full deck, so they’re arguing that the “left” (a.k.a. reasonable people) aren’t qualified to pass judgment on people who are obviously mentally unstable . . . or, in other words, who are they to say who is crazy and who is not?

And we wonder how the Nazis were ever able to come to power and control an entire country . . . if you control the argument — and the rules that govern it, it’s easy.

Scarecrow is upstairs…

Good points still Rachel won:)

Thanks all for the tips and encouragement. I’ll try my best to be perfectly professional and not too chatty. I will.

The guy is an expert. Rachel started by trying to pin him down on what large corporate sponsors were paying for AFP’s faux grassroots activities. He tried a deflection, shifting to accusing her of stifling free speech and castigating people like Koch. It went on from there. These guys will not directly answer a question, so Rachel kept at him until she got mad and let him have it both barrels.

Maddow is not Limbaugh, Hannity or O’Reilly. She does not slander people who have no opportunity for rebuttal. She sits face to face with them. Some amount of cross talk is inevitable if you are not going to allow people to continuously repeat canned lines without answering the question asked. If you weren’t fully sentient forty years ago, take a look at David Frost interviewing Richard Nixon. Rachel has the same type of skill, albeit in a more contentious era.

Four stars – I like it.

The guy is an expert. Rachel started by trying to pin him down on what large corporate sponsors were paying for AFP’s faux grassroots activities. He tried a deflection, shifting to accusing her of stifling free speech and castigating people like Koch. It went on from there. These guys will not directly answer a question, so Rachel kept at him until she got mad and let him have it both barrels.

Maddow is not Limbaugh, Hannity or O’Reilly. She does not slander people who have no opportunity for rebuttal. She sits face to face with them. Some amount of cross talk is inevitable if you are not going to allow people to continuously repeat canned lines without answering the question asked. If you weren’t fully sentient forty years ago, take a look at David Frost interviewing Richard Nixon. Rachel has the same type of skill, albeit in a more contentious era.

Four stars – I like it.

You can’t think of these interviews in terms of who wins or loses. It’s who inflicts the most damage. Rachel, by far, did the most damage. The question is, is this journalism, sensationalism or a fight for democracy. I believe in my heart of hearts, the girl is out there dukin’ it up for democracy.

Don’t ya just want to bitch slap that faux-smiley-faced-fascist-f^ck-Phillips?

Yes, Tell us how corporation like BCBS become tax exempt and then influence policy and law at state levels which benefit BCBS, a public charity in some state’s! Ask the question how, segregation of risk and overt discrimination is legal for corporations, and illegal for every one else? Tell us why one corporate health insurance controls 95 percent of a market in one state, but not another? How does this occur. What is the relationship between Wellpoint and Blue Cross Blue Shield? Why do corporations have monopolies, on life?

Phillips and his Americans for Prosperity are part of the underground fascist christianity movement that’s putting on all sorts of feel-good-about-America ads, especially lately — seen the American Free Enterprise Institute’s (Newt Gingrich’s baby) ones about hard-workin’ ‘Mericans yet? — guess they’ve been getting blowback about their anti-Chicago/Olympics rants and Obama-doesn’t-deserve-the-Nobel-Prize whining and wailings.

The reichwingers’ goal is to undermine American society (check that — so far, so good) and drive people into such desperation (we’re well on our way to that one, too!) that the country’s ripe for an overthrow of the government at which time they will be positioned to stage a coup d’etat (engineered by Dick Cheney — or Liz, if Dick’s pacemaker fails) and install an authoritarian theocracy along the lines of an Israeli/Iranian hybrid (ironic, no?) with a society resembling Mexico’s where a small group of 200 families control everything, and a political structure like China’s and N Korea’s.

Doubt it? Just look at how far they’ve progressed in their efforts already.

“MBS”???

What is the differance what he might say versus Gore? Funny, how she tried to slam him for working with someone who is rich but when he brings up Soros who owns media matters says nothing…

you can resuscitate the soros strawman when media matters goes around in buses calling someone a nazi for trying to reform healthcare.

I went to find the previous segments leading up to this moment. I admit to my lefty I like Rachel and want her to win bias upfront. I don’t know if she “won” but I can tell you this on a superficial level I knew I wasn’t going to like the guy who smiles like a snake. Just getting him on the air (I’d seen him before) and face the music was a coup.

He wasn’t destroyed. He took it like one of those tippy clown toys you can punch and they bounce back upright, still smiling. His comebacks were pretty dang weenie though.
“You don’t pick on the WH” RM: uh, yeah I do.
“you are disparaging these people”
“I didn’t say that” (when a staffer or hired speaker did)

All of his lines were stock deflections.

One response that showed that she got to him as well was “well, what are you paid to do?” Like it’s the same thing! childish!

Saying that megamillionaires are just ordinary americans doesn’t fly either when RM puts it into context. She made the point but I thought it could have been more crisp: paid promotion of a political agenda to crowds of recruits is not grassroots. She did say it was advertising and that was a good point.

I also didn’t know about the conditions of Chinese workers on the Marianas and the conversion to Christianity thing. That was an eye popper. What a sleaze. I don’t think he cares that we think he’s sleazy. He gets paid big bucks to be sleazy and take the media hits.

Rachel did well up until the end when she began to attack him in a way that seemed more personal than it needed to be.

I’d like to see someone singularly disciplined at staying on message like Alan Grayson mincing him up.

Shorter Tim Phillips: Fear Mongering is Patriotic!

agreed. As authentic as it was, she’s not Jon Stewart and therefore as to reveal facts and stay off personal opinions. It was so galling to see just how experienced he was at taking her heat and smiling like a mean snake. Like “is that the best you’ve got?” the guy is pure evil and I think it got to her at the end.

And as soon as the government withdraws any tax advantage of hiring lobbyists, the sooner they will get out of our face. Let’s start withdrawing tax advantages for corporations that engage in this kind of sleaze. this kind of business should not be a tax deductible item. it is partisan and should be penalized with harsh tax treatment.

This guy nailed Rachel. We are not going to be muzzled by people like her. She is a phony –

Rachel did a great job, despite having a really bad throat. Secondly, yes, the right-wingers now come prepared. But they often didn’t. To say they have always been prepared is just a lie. Anyway, despite his preparedness, she still nailed him. And his fake smile DID disappear a few times. To say it didn’t is, again, a lie. His face betrayed him a couple of times and you saw the real him.

All those saying they simply won’t watch people screaming or talking over the guest are just acting like children. There is a difference. For example, Tweety talks over people every day, doesn’t let them finish, or even get their point out. When 10 seconds is up, he interrupts. (And never with anything to say!) Rachel simply doesn’t do that. I saw her “interrupt” last night, but never raise her voice. Why did she interrupt? Because it was painfully obvious Phillips was just repeating himself, to not allow her to get a word in edgewise. I felt she handled it quite well.

So, those of you who don’t see Rachel’s actions as worthy of your admiration, just get used to $3000/month health care (with denial of service), and much more right-wing shit. You are playing right into their hands. And I blame you, as much as the right-wingers, for the crap that happens.

Grow up.

Agree. We can nit-pit all we like about whether RM interrupted too much or not enough or whether she spoke “too loudly” or whatever. RM’s interview with this cold-blooded snake (apologies to snakes) never approached the inaninity of Tweety, much less the blowhard b.s. of O’Reilly etc (which I saw some lefties saying that RM was “worse” than them. please!).

Get with the program or, as be prepared to be constantly raped by these villians. Making sweety nice gets us nowhere.

When you’re dealing with bullies and liars, then you’ve got to step up to the plate and lob out some hard balls. I think RM did a great job last night and hope to see more.

I traveled extensively in 3rd world countries in my DFH youth, and I saw the USA’s future. These so-called Christo-facists have really slimed their way into the hearts and minds of authoritarians needing daddy to tell them what to think, say & do, plus gimme all your money.

No matter how many nits we pick with RM over the shoulda, coulda, woulda’s of her interview, I couldn’t help but leap off the couch, clap and scream when she called that scum sucking bottom dweller what he IS: a parasite getting fat offa the rest of us. A cathartic moment for me.

These creeps have most of the power, and we are but tiny fleas buzzing about their ears. They don’t give a hoo-hah what you, me or RM think, say or do… they’ve gotten away with it for years, and who in hell’s gonna stop ‘em? Barry Obama? Harry Reid? Nancy Pelosi? No, didn’t think so (disclaimer: I like the POTUS and good luck to him, but ah, reality…).

It is always better to humiliate someone by taking things they have done and exposing those things as absurd than it is to say that “you are x, y and z”

Just because we criticize Rachel Maddow does not mean that we don’t like her. There is always room for improvement, and given the stakes of this contest, we can always do better because if we don’t, the price for failure will be measured in lives and treasure again.

Exactly whom was destroyed here? I love Rachel, but she didn’t destroy anyone. She spoke from the heart, which is unique and to be encouraged. But all she really did was call him names on national TV.

Murdered By Spreadsheet

I think she did more than call him names on tv. RM did a solid job of exposing who pays Tim Phillips to do his dirty tricks. I knew about the Marianna Is debacle, but I didn’t know that Phillips was one of the puppet masters encouraging fundies to back it in the name of Jeebus. That was good info.

Nor did I know that he worked on the crapulous campaign against Max Clelland. Phillips deserves to spend his so-called afterlife in the 7th circle of hell for that nasty piece of work (support the troops my left butt cheek).

RM exposed a lot of info on that show and put a face and a name out there for all of us to see and chew on. Good stuff. Yes, RM called him a name, but a name well-deserved. Phillips isn’t just business as usual; he’s playing for keeps; and it’s all about ripping off as many of us as possible. Good to know who’s in the line-up.

I agree, he wasn’t destroyed. Alan Greyson does a much better job…

He’s slick and rolled with the punches well. RW fell down when she had to go back into the early 2000′s to find some “dirt” on him. He’s been good at covering his tracks and then typically like all liberals as you said, you let them shape the Nationalist debate and we get painted with the “We Think America Sucks” label.

That’s why when he always describes anybody he talks about as a “Great American”, like anybody that disagrees with their view of America is automatically Un-American.

Utter Nonsense.

Rachel didn’t get beat up, nor did she destroy him. When you have to stammer for words and put your argument together on the fly like she did in the end, it doesn’t look good.

Tim is no fool, he would never jump on Democracy Now, Amy would Destroy him.

Finally, Tim is right about one thing, the WH did conduct backroom deals with Doctors, Insurances Companies and BigPhrma without batting an eyelash and this is solely why the debate was lost when Single Payer was taken off the table from the start.

If this was a fight to save Single Payer from not being passed, the base might actually show up in protest, but its hard to get excited about a vague phase like “Public Option”.

Rachel got what she wanted (to be the hero of the left) and Phillips got what he wanted (to be the hero of the insurance companies). Neither backed down so both get applauded by their respective sides. What bothers me is that in the end Rachel ends up looking no better than any commentator on Fox because she stooped to name calling. I know she is calling out for what he is but I kind of wish she hadn’t, if for no other reason than to keep the high ground.

If this was a fight to save Single Payer from not being passed, the base might actually show up in protest, but its hard to get excited about a vague phase like “Public Option”.

BINGO!

Here’s the question I keep asking: Why has there been NO national call for public demonstrations in towns and cities across America in support of Single Payer on a Saturday? We could get 1 million people in the streets, including small business owners, self-employed, unemployed, almost laid off, families with kids, families with kids in strollers, retirees, etc. In short, they’ll look like a cross section of Americans including people who have insurance.

Instead, I’ve been receiving invites from MoveOn to attend events being held on weekday afternoons to support public option. Who is going to show up on a Wednesday morning at 11:30 AM? I’m in charge of my schedule and even I have meetings to attend. Are they going to look like the electorate which is going to be paying the majority of the health care costs?

As to Rachel and Tim Phillips, I think her strongest argument was buried (as journalists call it, burying the LEDE).

As klynn (35) wrote, “….fear mongering is bad for the country.” Game over. Point made. She could have worked her way back from the astroturf example with past representation of amoral positions.

Rachel is no where close to tweety or FauxNoise interviewers. She actually invites the interviewee to critique her introductions of them.

I assert that she becomes exasperated with their cognitive dissonance, just as I do. I analyze it as different paradigms: Rachel is about facts and moral honesty, whereever they take her. Guys like Tim Phillips are about amoral representation of a client regardless of facts or morality. Phillips has demonstrated, as Rachel noted again and again, that he literally will represent any amoral position and smile while he does it. Logical arguments fall apart when those two paradigms are so different.

I truly appreciate that Rachel is willing to do this face to face, in real time, without a net, and not limit herself to a time slot. She’s learning and as long as she doesn’t burn out and become cynical, she’s earned my eyeballs most evenings.

Soros does not own Media Matters, and MMFA asserts they have no funding from him.

The whole debate on the left has turned into “Save the Public Option”.

Save what? The Public Option you say? Okay, call me cynical, WHAT IS IT?

Is it Jacob Hacker’s plan? Is it a modified (for the better, but I don’t see how) version of it? It is much weaker version of it (according to reports, 3 of the 4 house versions and the HELP version are all weaker).

Then we are fighting for mediocrity?

Clearly whatever the Right came up with hasn’t worked and were still fighting over the compromise????

We’re having Tim Philips on TRMS just to fight for “The Public Option” and their opposition?

That’s what makes this whole thing the failure half ass reform that it is.

Everybody is already conceding the defeat of various parts of the House and Senate HELP bills that are far more progressive than the Finance Committee’s JUNK.

Grayson is right, the LEFT has no fortitude

If they want to act like children (the right) why do we have the be the adults in the room when a majority of Americans are child like themselves?

When we are going to raise a million dollars to donate to get the House and Senate to pass Single Payer? Put it on the floor vote for it, identify who didn’t vote for it, focus on them in 2010. If they are in a district that protects them from progressive opponents, fuck’em we’ll bowl over them by replacing the ones we can in states that won’t protect their ConservaDems.

This is LIFE and DEATH as Keith has said, as Greyson has said, let’s get it done and stop being so lily livered!