if Obama holds firm and backs a strong public option

Norske – I’m surprised to hear you say this. I don’t think “holding firm” for Obama would mean pressing for a public option. I don’t think he wants one; at best, he’s indifferent about it.

I have with sadness come to the conclusion that he only cares about getting “a bill, any bill” passed. I really don’t believe he cares whether the bill is good or bad; I don’t know why this is, but all his signals are that passage of a bill is victory.

jayt, I see Bayh visiting as a bad sign for the same reason. It won’t be “stop being a dick,” it’ll be, “what do we need to take out of the bill to get you on board?” I wish I didn’t believe this, but that’s my take on all of the statements,non-statements, actions and non-actions taken as a whole.

They DO NOT want to see what happens when the radical LEFT joins forces with the teabaggers to oppose a bill that includes a mandate but no public option.

Just like Master-Blaster in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome :)

You are more optimistic than I.

I agree, Obama is not stupid.

He simply doesn’t “get it”, and unless the public, the human beings who make up the society of this nation insist, (very strongly indeed,more strongly than they have done in living memory, which may yet be possible if enough of those human beings come to understand …) then Obama will continue doing what he does best of late, ignoring the obvious … with which “process” he has lots of help. Some are even “professionals”, poor things.

Americans are a trusting lot. They are also lied to, consistently. Have they noticed?

And frankly, there hasn’t been “sufficient” pain, spread evenly enough around, yet, to gain “sufficient” attention among those “too small” (in the minds of their betters) to matter …

I agree with your assessment about the absolutely most crucial nature of our moment; either humanity will take decent steps … or a fascist dark age of serfdom is upon us.

Timing is everything.

Most folks (including Obama) haven’t caught up with your understanding, Norske.

When they do (may it be soon …) let us hope they have your courage, conviction, and capacity to put such courage and conviction into powerful visions and language, allied to proper action.

DW

If that was the case, the Framers would never have created the United States Senate. The truth is the Framers were not democrats. The Senate is a testament to that

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I think you are confusing your history. The electoral college is the testament to the framers lack of faith in democracy. The Senate (2 reps for every state large or small) is a political compromise to convince small states to join the proposed union. Its 6-year terms and non-representative nature makes it a candidate for the dustbin of history. I suggest they either start representing their constituents or people need to dust off the pitchforks and torches.

It’s Harry who should be meeting with Bayh… threatening to strip him of everything but the shirt on his back and his future lobbying position as a private lobbyist for WellPoint.

Negotiating with Bayh is as dumb/ futile as longing for Snowes bipartisanship was.

let me get you right on this.

Reid, Baucus, and Dodd……with the WH moderating?

We’re fucked.

the only hope left is Pelosi has more balls than Reid and the house forces a good bill thru.

Abolish the Senate, expand the house.

What will be his undoing is the vast majority of the people are going to get royally screwed by a plan that does not include a public option. When that happens, it won’t matter what their ideological predilection is, they will be mad as hell and Obama will bear the brunt of that anger.