The Senate Finance Committee’s passage of a health reform bill marks the end of the committee process, but only the beginning of the longer journey to passage. Starting tomorrow, Harry Reid, Max Baucus, Chris Dodd and one or two representatives from the White House will meet in Reid’s office to hammer out the details of merging the two bills. There will be a press conference with the principals tomorrow at 2pm ET. A Senate leadership aide tells me they hope that process will take a week, and the bill will reach the floor by the week of October 26th. That provides some built-in pad in case the merging process takes longer than that. Once it hits the floor, the process could take anywhere from two weeks to a month, or even more.
While the views of other Senators may be taken into account, Reid really wants to limit it to Dodd, Baucus and the White House. So there’s a narrow group of influencers responsible for the bill that will reach the floor. And given that Dodd will likely side with the HELP bill and Baucus with the Finance bill, the responsibility at this point really rests with Reid and the White House, with the White House likely to be more crucial in that process on a host of fronts, including coverage subsidies, financing, and any government insurance option. (The fact that the President is meeting one-on-one with Evan Bayh today shows that they are bearing down on this process.)
The wild card in all of this is Olympia Snowe’s yes vote on the Baucus bill today, despite all kinds of pressure from Republicans to vote against it. Nobody was happier about this than Baucus, because he probably thinks he can use it to muscle Dodd and Reid into essentially keeping his bill intact for the floor. The White House is clearly dying for something they can call bipartisan support, and will likely want to use Snowe in that capacity, as well as who she could bring along – Bill Nelson already intimated today that Susan Collins would come along with Snowe (although her role is probably more as cover for moderate Democrats). Snowe pointedly rejected the public option in her comments.
Crucially, the aide confirmed that it is probably the case that every amendment to the merged bill will require a 60-vote threshold as per the unanimous consent agreement. This protects the bill itself, but will make it extremely difficult to amend the bill meaningfully on the Senate floor. While this means, for example, that it will be virtually impossible to add a public insurance option through an amendment, it also means that it will be virtually impossible to REMOVE one through an amendment as well. So the Reid/Baucus/Dodd/WH confab really will determine whether any public option gets in the bill that goes to conference, in all likelihood.
It’s hard but not impossible to influence the process at this point. FDL has a petition calling on Reid to force those in the caucus who would join a Republican filibuster into the open. The aide told me that nobody in the caucus has stated their willingness to join a filibuster, though Joe Lieberman flirted with that on Imus today. As long as nobody wants to be saddled with killing the public option, it remains alive. Though now, expect a push to blame Olympia Snowe for having to kill it as a concession for her support, even though from a numbers standpoint, that makes no sense.
Update: Senate Majority Leader Reid has issued a statement on the vote. Note the emphasis:
I am pleased that the Senate Finance Committee voted today to pass their health insurance reform proposal. This represents another critical step toward bringing real change to our broken health insurance system.
I praise the leadership of Chairman Baucus for guiding this proposal through his Committee. Sen. Snowe is also to be commended for voting for this proposal in the face of immense pressure from opponents of reform. Her courage to stick with her principles in the face of an increasingly partisan environment in Washington, DC is heartening and should serve as a reminder that health care is an issue that should defy party labels.
In the Senate, we now move to the important work of merging the proposals of the HELP and Finance Committees with the committee chairmen and the White House in order to craft a bill that can garner 60 votes in the Senate. We remain committed to passing legislation that lowers costs, creates competition, improves quality of care and preserves choice.




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Starting tomorrow, Harry Reid, Max Baucus, Chris Dodd and one or two representatives from the White House will meet in Reid’s office to hammer out the details of merging the two bills.
Am I mis-remembering, or didn’t Harry say on the FISA legislation that the first bill to be reported out of Committee was the one that went up to the entire Senate for a vote?
the fate of millions rests on baucus, dodd, reid, rahm and snowe??
it galls me that baucus is still heading that committee and still calling the shots after his outrageous insult to the american people in the form of the wellpoint bill.
Uh oh, i dont have a good feeling about this bill. . .
Now that the WH has gotten its long desired bipartigasm,
can we please move on to a real bill?
They are beginning to package the great new “Manure sandwich” and working on the advertising campaign now.
Medicare for all of us, now. It is so simple, it works.
“…after his outrageous insult to the american people in the form of the wellpoint bill.”
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090929/BUSINESS03/909290319/Ex-WellPoint+exec+helped+write+health-care+bill
Thank you for this excellent assessment of the next steps going forward in the Senate and for the link to the FDL petition to Reid.
I will be sending letters to Reid and to the White House expressing my belief in the need for a strong public health care option in the bill that goes to the Senate floor in the hopes that thousands others will do the same.
Please take a look at Congressman Anthony Weiner’s new website, countdowntohealthcare.com, and sign his petition “Stand up for the Public Option!”
The only one of that group that is at all committed to a public option is Dodd. The Senate won’t have one because I don’t believe the White House really wants it. Though God knows how they could be so unbelievably stupid. Any health care reform that mandates buying insurance but doesn’t offer an affordable public option is the kiss of the death for the Democrats. But I don’t think they know it.
Interesting Stuff:
Conrad says that he is against PO “On Principle”
Lincoln said that if the final bill if far from Baucus Bill, she’ll vote against it
Snowe said she hesitant about her vote.
Republicans simple used the hearing to generate talking points for the Right-wing media to use to attack healthcare reform
I don’t recall that, but if you find a link let me know.
Now, a choice: A real bill that gives us affordable coverage and a public option, or this bill, which Wendell Potter calls a dream come true for the insurance companies:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/9371
Conrad’s against a PO with Medicare rates on principle, because he doesn’t believe in democracy. I’ll have a post up on that later.
It depends how the bills are moved to the floor. In FISA, it was done that way. This time, they’re doing a merge. Has something to do with Senate calendars and rules…
You really still believe that government works like you were taught in civics class, huh?
Nice analysis. Step one over, getting out of committee, we will have a health care bill, now it’s time for the public to get to work, really swamping their reps’ office with demand for public option.
Has a lot more to do with what bill Reid wants to bring to the floor. In other words, Reid can use the rules to do what he wants. If he wants Public Option, there will be one in the bill.
I thought Harkin was gonna be in the room too?
Don’t clap and smile, this was just a step by kicking us into the path of the on comming steam roller, where our us and our wallets will be flatened like a proverbial pancake.
We need healthcare reform, but true reform, by Nationalizing the Health Insurance Industry. All they are talking and putting forth is just bad.
The republicans are keeping any real reform from happening, while the democrats are trying to spend us to better healthcare. We need to replace all these retards instead of allowing them to ruin this Country.
All Grassley could say is, “I think,” and that is the problem. He and all the rest were sent there to do what we think, not what they think. This is something they forgot, and we allowed them to do it. They are there to represent the people, their constituents, and the rest of us.
We shouldn’t be willing to take what they give us, and be telling them what we want.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen David Dayen and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
“It’s hard but not impossible to influence the process at this point…”
But it’s not about “process” anymore except in so far as the “process” is transparent and allows for confrontation between the competing proposals. We are down to real politics now and the only gamesmanship I would push is to get the House of Representatives to pass a bill before the Senate takes all the air outta the room. Get a strong public option in the House bill and then organize the progressives in the Senate to force a fillibuster if a public option is included in the Senate bill.
And make it clear that progressives in the grassroots will hold ObamaRahma responsible if a bill gets passed without a public option. I’ve been sayin this for weeks now, Obama is not stupid and he knows he can’t govern like Clinton did by triangulating the Democrats out of power…the mass of the public wants a public option and we will hold Democrats responsible if we don’t get one.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE REAL FIGHT HAS JUST STARTED!!
“Any health care reform that mandates buying insurance but doesn’t…” effectively control the cost of inflation in health care and forces the taxpayer into contracts with insurance corporations continuing to leverage Americans for profit in health care is the kiss of death for insurance corporations, not America or Americans…….
We can just say no!
“So the Reid/Baucus/Dodd/WH confab really will determine whether any public option gets in the bill that goes to conference, in all likelihood.” ; and now people will see whether Obama has the peoples wellbeing in his mind or just getting ‘something’ passed’.
I’m betting on just ‘getting something passed’ which will go back leads us back to whether the House Progressives will stand by their commitment to a ‘strong/robust public option”.
Thanks for that petition.
I was told no, Dodd’s taking the lead because the HELP bill passed under his watch. Harkin won’t be in the room.
Please don’t start this nonsense again. It’s waste of time for us to debate it all over again.
If you think that something that I’m doing is harmful, fine. Say so.
If you want to say something to me that would inform me as I go about my efforts, by all means, tell me.
Otherwise, why not just skip over my comments asking people to send letters to our elected representatives?
Anyone who is interested in communicated with our leaders in government, please consider contacting Harry Reid here and the White House here.
I’m very wary of what’s coming out of the Senate. I want Medicare for all, but if not that at least a very robust public option. Without that, I oppose any reform that includes the mandate.
And as others have mentioned, the mandate to buy expensive insurance without an affordable public option will get the populace so pissed off the August town halls will seem like country club garden parties.
I also believe the AHIP research that insurance premiums will go up under the Baucus plan. Of course they will go up, not because it HAS to, but because nothing is stopping them.
nothing affordable about an increase in cost. the subsidies will help some though.
You’re welcome! I heard of it today from Congressman Weiner during an interview on Faux ‘news’ of all places. I actually learned something worth learning while watching the bs ‘news’ channel!
teddy, do you think reid does what he wants or do you think he takes his cues/instructions from other members or maybe the white house?
“NO!” to the individual mandates.
It is important to remember that the White House has been trying to kill the public option for weeks. And even when it was mentioned as in Obama’s September 9, 2009 speech to Congress he talked about a PO that was small.
The likelihood remains either for a weak PO or no PO at all.
Many of these pols have acted in a manner that has been less than above reproach. And, at the end of the day, many of them will be pilloried here, when a bill that is much less than we had hoped for emerges.
But, the overriding reason we won’t get dramatic change is that our system of government was intentionally designed to prevent that from occurring. Incrementalism is what our Constitution was designed to produce and that is what we get.
It is frustrating now, but when the conservatives once again control the levers of power, you might have a different view of it.
OK, so that crap Baucus Bill is out of committee, and Dodd, Reid, Baucus, and two from the WH will be considering what kind (if any) PO to put in before this bill reaches the floor for amendments and a vote from the whole Senate, correct?
And after the bill gets 60 votes for cloture (??) it is up to Pelosi to get a bill voted out of the House that will then be reconciled into the final bill. That final bill will then need a 51 vote majority from the Senate to become law. Is this correct?
How the fuck did these two assholes, Reid and Baucus, who between them represent a bunch of wasteland and sagebrush, get put in charge of my health care?
Citizen oldgold:
No citizen, the system was designed to make it difficult to institute major change without substantial public support…it’s called politics. And if we make it known that we will hold ObamaRahma responsible for whatever comes out of the process by threatenin’ him and his party at the polls in 2010, then the system will work and Obama will be forced to get a real bill or make the fascists fillibuster in which case he and his party and we the people will win in the long run.
Yep. And by my count, Dodd is the only one of the 5 negotiators who will be interested in adding a PO.
They DO NOT want to see what happens when the radical LEFT joins forces with the teabaggers to oppose a bill that includes a mandate but no public option.
I’m already preparing to get livid.
The system which has seniority and no term limits of course. And a system which allows each state to have 2 senators and call that representing the people.
Sen. Reid said about a week ago that the bill would have a public option unless President Obama asked him to take it out. I don’t have a link but it was mentioned in a thread on FDL. Without a public option, this would be much more expensive for Americans. I hope President Obama will not let Sen. Reid off the hook.
“I also believe the AHIP research that insurance premiums will go up under the Baucus plan. Of course they will go up, not because it HAS to, but because nothing is stopping them.”
Agreed.
Section 3 and the third paragraph of Section 8 of Article I of the Constitution.
“In-cre-mental-ism …”
That would be, (a-step-at-a-time) torture and the slow, almost not there, … “bailout” of those “too big to fail”?
Yes?
Seems, Oldgold, that certain “things” move “right” along, including the Constitution … ( if any of that “quaint” thing even remains …).
You are prolly talking about something else … like needful change … slavery comes to mind.
Now THAT was in-cre-mental-ism.
Yes, indeedy.
Change takes time.
The the elected (and non-elected) elite merely take the money.
;~DW
*visualizing giant fire-breathing lizard in white robes stomping through Washington DC*
The mandate really opens up the potential for disastrous impact on We the People. If there’s no competition from an affordable public option we’ll see premiums continue to rise at current levels, but now we’ll be forced to buy anyway.
Even NPR this morning seemed so focused on how different scenarios will impact the federal budget and political fortunes, but nobody asked the obvious question, “how will this impact the average Joe/Jane?”
I honestly think something like the Baucus bill if it gets enacted will be one of the worst things to happen to the general population in U.S. History.
Firepup Freedom Fighters:
The outcome of this fight is now squrely in Obama’s lap…no matter what happens he owns the outcome. If he gets a bill passed that doesn’t have a public option then the program will fail and Obama and the Democrats will lose in 2010. If he gets a bill with a strong public option, then we all win and all of his agenda will be fast tracked. If the fascists succeed in filibusterin’ a good bill so that no bill is passed then he can blame it on the opposition and make them, some Democrats and all Republicans, suffer at the polls in 2010.
The one thing he can’t do is pull a Clinton and triangulate the Democrats out of power and still save his presidency…no matter what happens on this we are gunna see changes in the Democratic leadership all the way up into the White House and Obama has nowhere to hide and he’s NOT stupid…if I can figure this stuff out so can he.
:-)
Except in western mythology the fire-breathing dragon generally represented greed and in this case it would be raging in opposition to the greedy.
If that was the case, the Framers would never have created the United States Senate.
The truth is the Framers were not democrats. The Senate is a testament to that.
no public option = one term president
*fire breathing characteristic replaced with severe flatulence* Is flatulence the opposite of fire breathing?
“Under regular order, and the rules of the Senate governing sequential referral, I will move to proceed to S. 2248 – the bill reported by each committee. When that motion to proceed is adopted, the work of both committees will be before the Senate. Because of the order in which they considered the bill, the Intelligence Committee version will be the base text, and the Judiciary Committee version will be automatically pending as a substitute amendment.
on edit: forgot to cite:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2007/12/14/232416/03
Health care reform that mandates buying insurance = You’re in for $3800 in tax, or $3800 in insurance coverage. Might as well get the coverage and waste it on test’s and supplies and stuff you don’t really need.
Doesn’t sound like that’s going to bring down costs.
Obama is meeting with Bayh today… not Harkin and Dodd or progressives in the House.
Aside from the passage of the Baucus bill… what more do we need to know to clearly see where this is heading?
Obama is not about to get cozy with, much less create out of thin air, something resembling a robust government plan which every American may chose to purchase. It is simply not going to happen.
The only good thing I see at this point is the penalties for defying mandates seem to be shrinking along the way.
Citizen oldgold:
I spent a couple a the best years in my life studyin’ American early national politics…the Senate was set up as a cooler for the “frenzied masses” but could not stop change that had substantail puiblic support accross the nation and especially in the House of Representatives which holds the purse strings to the fortunes of the wealthy. In this case, if Obama holds firm and backs a strong public option with a strong base in the House of Representatives, he can get major change, if not this session then next and will put fascist political opposition away for a long time.
This is a moment that doesn’t come very often but if major change doesn’t happen and Obama doesn’t fight for it, he’s done and so is a corporatist Democratic Party…like I said, if I can figure this shit out then Obama sure has it gamed out to the last move.
Isn’t it time to get the House train moving out of the station?
sadly, I think you are right.
And earlier today, the one person Obama praised was Snowe,
certainly not Rockefeller.
Obama is meeting with Bayh today… not Harkin and Dodd or progressives in the House.
This *could* be a good sign.
“Senator Bayh, please stop being a dick. Thanks for stopping by.”
ugh! I hope it’s a come to Jesus meeting with Evan Bayh (D – Wellpoint). If it’s some sort of collaborating, then meaningful reform is done for.
Seems like the only hope of getting any kind of decent PO is through reconciliation with the House. That is why I am so interested in the procedure for getting the bill through Congress.
“Obama’s Waterloo” is not really going to be like Sen Dimwitt assumed. Obama’s Waterloo will be a weak, public-optionless, healthcare bill that will be rejected by the American public. I’m still unclear where he stands on healthcare. I’ve heard what he’s said; I wasn’t inspired, so now what will he do. I hope he understands the new power of the progressive. Come to think of it, I hope the progressives understand their now found power.
P.S. Maybe if you look at it this way, understanding the powers granted each body and the constituency that each body represents, you can understand why I been arguin’ that Citizen Hamsher and the progressive rabble rousers focus on building power in the House of Representatives. A President can control his majority leader in the Senate even if they don’t agree but he hasta get the money for everything and anything from the House of Representatives and a strong Speaker and or a muscular caucus like the progressive caucus can run the President. Get a strong public option outta the House before the Senate acts and it turns the whole ball game…but it will take pressure on the House and NOT wasting time on the Senate.
It’s not even the power of progressives that will be his undoing – ironically it’s our power that could save him.
What will be his undoing is the vast majority of the people are going to get royally screwed by a plan that does not include a public option. When that happens, it won’t matter what their ideological predilection is, they will be mad as hell and Obama will bear the brunt of that anger.
Wait wait wait..
let me get you right on this.
Reid, Baucus, and Dodd……with the WH moderating?
We’re fucked.
the only hope left is Pelosi has more balls than Reid and the house forces a good bill thru.
Abolish the Senate, expand the house.
This *could* be a good sign.
It’s Harry who should be meeting with Bayh… threatening to strip him of everything but the shirt on his back and his future lobbying position as a private lobbyist for WellPoint.
Negotiating with Bayh is as dumb/ futile as longing for Snowes bipartisanship was.
.
I think you are confusing your history. The electoral college is the testament to the framers lack of faith in democracy. The Senate (2 reps for every state large or small) is a political compromise to convince small states to join the proposed union. Its 6-year terms and non-representative nature makes it a candidate for the dustbin of history. I suggest they either start representing their constituents or people need to dust off the pitchforks and torches.
Norske;
You are more optimistic than I.
I agree, Obama is not stupid.
He simply doesn’t “get it”, and unless the public, the human beings who make up the society of this nation insist, (very strongly indeed,more strongly than they have done in living memory, which may yet be possible if enough of those human beings come to understand …) then Obama will continue doing what he does best of late, ignoring the obvious … with which “process” he has lots of help. Some are even “professionals”, poor things.
Americans are a trusting lot. They are also lied to, consistently. Have they noticed?
And frankly, there hasn’t been “sufficient” pain, spread evenly enough around, yet, to gain “sufficient” attention among those “too small” (in the minds of their betters) to matter …
I agree with your assessment about the absolutely most crucial nature of our moment; either humanity will take decent steps … or a fascist dark age of serfdom is upon us.
Timing is everything.
Most folks (including Obama) haven’t caught up with your understanding, Norske.
When they do (may it be soon …) let us hope they have your courage, conviction, and capacity to put such courage and conviction into powerful visions and language, allied to proper action.
DW
Just like Master-Blaster in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome :)
Norske – I’m surprised to hear you say this. I don’t think “holding firm” for Obama would mean pressing for a public option. I don’t think he wants one; at best, he’s indifferent about it.
I have with sadness come to the conclusion that he only cares about getting “a bill, any bill” passed. I really don’t believe he cares whether the bill is good or bad; I don’t know why this is, but all his signals are that passage of a bill is victory.
jayt, I see Bayh visiting as a bad sign for the same reason. It won’t be “stop being a dick,” it’ll be, “what do we need to take out of the bill to get you on board?” I wish I didn’t believe this, but that’s my take on all of the statements,non-statements, actions and non-actions taken as a whole.