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	<title>Comments on: Health Reform Supporter Arnold Schwarzenegger Vetoes Multiple Health Reform Bills</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/#comment-1995040</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=44650#comment-1995040</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t the U.S. Constitution guarantee each state a Republic? Is there no interpretation of that which allows the elected legislators to govern despite the Constitutional amendments made by referendum? At what point do Constitutional amendments change the system so far that it no only becomes dysfunctional, but un-Democratic and un-Constitutional?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t the U.S. Constitution guarantee each state a Republic? Is there no interpretation of that which allows the elected legislators to govern despite the Constitutional amendments made by referendum? At what point do Constitutional amendments change the system so far that it no only becomes dysfunctional, but un-Democratic and un-Constitutional?</p>
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		<title>By: MarkH</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/#comment-1995039</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=44650#comment-1995039</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The Democrats had a winning hand in CA, from 1998-2003, with the Governor, Assembly and Senate, but they fucked it up, as usual,&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not a Californian, but as I recall Davis was finding a revenue stream to keep the budget in order. It was Republicans &amp; Enron who Bushwhacked him and put Schwarzenegger in...to disastrous results.

Yea, like Clinton, who balanced the budget. That worked out well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The Democrats had a winning hand in CA, from 1998-2003, with the Governor, Assembly and Senate, but they fucked it up, as usual,</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not a Californian, but as I recall Davis was finding a revenue stream to keep the budget in order. It was Republicans &amp; Enron who Bushwhacked him and put Schwarzenegger in&#8230;to disastrous results.</p>
<p>Yea, like Clinton, who balanced the budget. That worked out well.</p>
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		<title>By: David Dayen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/#comment-1994986</link>
		<dc:creator>David Dayen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=44650#comment-1994986</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The state is too big, too disparate, too diverse to be governed effectively as one unit.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Certainly when you demand super-majorities.  Actually the state legislature has a pretty healthy progressive majority.  They just don&#039;t have any power for structural reasons.

End minority rule (your reform would be a good start, but I think we have to go back to square one.  It&#039;s time for a Constitutional convention).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The state is too big, too disparate, too diverse to be governed effectively as one unit.</p></blockquote>
<p>Certainly when you demand super-majorities.  Actually the state legislature has a pretty healthy progressive majority.  They just don&#8217;t have any power for structural reasons.</p>
<p>End minority rule (your reform would be a good start, but I think we have to go back to square one.  It&#8217;s time for a Constitutional convention).</p>
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		<title>By: marcos</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/#comment-1994961</link>
		<dc:creator>marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=44650#comment-1994961</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s a process problem.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It is a structural problem more so than process, as process flows from structure.

The state is too big, too disparate, too diverse to be governed effectively as one unit.

The legislature is too small relative to the size of the population, giving us amongst the highest level of granularity of representation, amongst the least accessible.

The state is permanently hobbled in process because a simple majority passed initiatives requiring a supermajority for certain measures for all future comers.  As a democratic structural reform, no new law should be able to require a supermajority for anything unless it passes itself with a supermajority.  All laws previously enacted should be brought back to the voters for review under that criterion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It’s a process problem.</p></blockquote>
<p>It is a structural problem more so than process, as process flows from structure.</p>
<p>The state is too big, too disparate, too diverse to be governed effectively as one unit.</p>
<p>The legislature is too small relative to the size of the population, giving us amongst the highest level of granularity of representation, amongst the least accessible.</p>
<p>The state is permanently hobbled in process because a simple majority passed initiatives requiring a supermajority for certain measures for all future comers.  As a democratic structural reform, no new law should be able to require a supermajority for anything unless it passes itself with a supermajority.  All laws previously enacted should be brought back to the voters for review under that criterion.</p>
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		<title>By: David Dayen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/#comment-1994948</link>
		<dc:creator>David Dayen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=44650#comment-1994948</guid>
		<description>I actually don&#039;t agree with that.  State government in California is so dysfunctional, with the Republicans so enabled to hijack the legislative process for their own ends, that you could elect Noam Chomsky Governor and nothing tangible would get done.  And both Gavin Newsom and Jerry Brown are far closer to Schwarzenegger than Chomsky.

It&#039;s a process problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually don&#8217;t agree with that.  State government in California is so dysfunctional, with the Republicans so enabled to hijack the legislative process for their own ends, that you could elect Noam Chomsky Governor and nothing tangible would get done.  And both Gavin Newsom and Jerry Brown are far closer to Schwarzenegger than Chomsky.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a process problem.</p>
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		<title>By: McMia</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/#comment-1994947</link>
		<dc:creator>McMia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=44650#comment-1994947</guid>
		<description>Now, now. 

Everybody knows that what politicians DO isn&#039;t as important as what they SAY.

And everyone should only look FORWARD, never BACKWARDS...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, now. </p>
<p>Everybody knows that what politicians DO isn&#8217;t as important as what they SAY.</p>
<p>And everyone should only look FORWARD, never BACKWARDS&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: marcos</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/#comment-1994944</link>
		<dc:creator>marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=44650#comment-1994944</guid>
		<description>AB1890 was enacted UNANIMOUSLY:

Aug. 31	Urgency clause adopted.  Senate adopts Conference report.  To
	enrollment.  (Ayes 39. Noes  0. Page  6061.)
Aug. 30	Assembly adopts Conference report.  (Ayes 77. Noes  0. Page  8814.)
Aug. 28	From Conference Committee: (Ayes 6 (Assembly: Martinez, Conroy, and
	Brulte) (Senate: (Peace, Leonard, and Sher) (Noes 0).

Can&#039;t find the data for 1995-6 session, but the Democrats ruled both houses after the 1996 elections:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Legislature,_1997%E2%80%931998_session

&lt;blockquote&gt;I support Gavin Newsome actually, we need “fresh blood”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Newsom is as DLC as you&#039;ll get in the CADP, thanks for supporting the Republican wing of the Democrat Party.

Newsom is singularly not up to the challenge.  If Newsom cannot work with the SF Board of Supervisors, how is he going to get along with the legislature?

I&#039;ve known Newsom for 12 years, since Brown appointed him to the Board of Supervisors in 1997.  

There is simply no there there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AB1890 was enacted UNANIMOUSLY:</p>
<p>Aug. 31	Urgency clause adopted.  Senate adopts Conference report.  To<br />
	enrollment.  (Ayes 39. Noes  0. Page  6061.)<br />
Aug. 30	Assembly adopts Conference report.  (Ayes 77. Noes  0. Page  8814.)<br />
Aug. 28	From Conference Committee: (Ayes 6 (Assembly: Martinez, Conroy, and<br />
	Brulte) (Senate: (Peace, Leonard, and Sher) (Noes 0).</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t find the data for 1995-6 session, but the Democrats ruled both houses after the 1996 elections:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Legislature,_1997%E2%80%931998_session" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Legislature,_1997%E2%80%931998_session</a></p>
<blockquote><p>I support Gavin Newsome actually, we need “fresh blood”</p></blockquote>
<p>Newsom is as DLC as you&#8217;ll get in the CADP, thanks for supporting the Republican wing of the Democrat Party.</p>
<p>Newsom is singularly not up to the challenge.  If Newsom cannot work with the SF Board of Supervisors, how is he going to get along with the legislature?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve known Newsom for 12 years, since Brown appointed him to the Board of Supervisors in 1997.  </p>
<p>There is simply no there there.</p>
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		<title>By: djfourmoney</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/#comment-1994930</link>
		<dc:creator>djfourmoney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=44650#comment-1994930</guid>
		<description>Oh come on, some of the comments here are funny.

 Gray Davis was thrown under the bus for rising power cost and &quot;Brown Outs&quot;. The Conservatives were able to frame in such a way that it was his fault, when years earlier if I remember the Republican controlled Congress de-regulated the PUC.

 I don&#039;t mind personalizing Arnold, why not? That&#039;s his name.... I call him the Govenator and that could be a good or a bad thing.

 Just another example of the Republicans putting a &quot;Shinny Object&quot; out for people to look at. Tell him to say the right things and bingo he&#039;s Governor of California (See Ronald Regan).

 California is a Blue state for sure, but we have &quot;Red&quot; leanings at times and this is powered by the Northern rural areas, San Diego and Orange County areas. Basically anywhere a majority of &quot;Stormfront&quot; types live is Red.

 We could probably drum up a special election, but really the amount of damage he could do at this point is very small. He&#039;ll be out of office soon enough.

 Now about Brown, who I generally don&#039;t have a problem with; there is criticism of just how &quot;Left&quot; he is. He is more of a pragmatist than anything else, lately using is AD job to drum up publicity. He&#039;s trying to harness popular anger at banks and the health care industry. Weather he&#039;ll do anything about it as Governor (for the 3rd time) is another story.

 I support Gavin Newsome actually, we need &quot;fresh blood&quot;

 Just removing &quot;Arnold&quot; from office will allow many things to get done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh come on, some of the comments here are funny.</p>
<p> Gray Davis was thrown under the bus for rising power cost and &#8220;Brown Outs&#8221;. The Conservatives were able to frame in such a way that it was his fault, when years earlier if I remember the Republican controlled Congress de-regulated the PUC.</p>
<p> I don&#8217;t mind personalizing Arnold, why not? That&#8217;s his name&#8230;. I call him the Govenator and that could be a good or a bad thing.</p>
<p> Just another example of the Republicans putting a &#8220;Shinny Object&#8221; out for people to look at. Tell him to say the right things and bingo he&#8217;s Governor of California (See Ronald Regan).</p>
<p> California is a Blue state for sure, but we have &#8220;Red&#8221; leanings at times and this is powered by the Northern rural areas, San Diego and Orange County areas. Basically anywhere a majority of &#8220;Stormfront&#8221; types live is Red.</p>
<p> We could probably drum up a special election, but really the amount of damage he could do at this point is very small. He&#8217;ll be out of office soon enough.</p>
<p> Now about Brown, who I generally don&#8217;t have a problem with; there is criticism of just how &#8220;Left&#8221; he is. He is more of a pragmatist than anything else, lately using is AD job to drum up publicity. He&#8217;s trying to harness popular anger at banks and the health care industry. Weather he&#8217;ll do anything about it as Governor (for the 3rd time) is another story.</p>
<p> I support Gavin Newsome actually, we need &#8220;fresh blood&#8221;</p>
<p> Just removing &#8220;Arnold&#8221; from office will allow many things to get done.</p>
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		<title>By: marcos</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/#comment-1994878</link>
		<dc:creator>marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=44650#comment-1994878</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t health insurance contracts have provisions for canceling the policy for &quot;misrepresentation&quot; on the application?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t health insurance contracts have provisions for canceling the policy for &#8220;misrepresentation&#8221; on the application?</p>
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		<title>By: David Dayen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/10/12/health-reform-supporter-arnold-schwarzenegger-vetoes-multiple-health-reform-bills/#comment-1994873</link>
		<dc:creator>David Dayen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/?p=44650#comment-1994873</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s not really all I&#039;ll be doing here, but this was too egregious to pass up, and had a national angle as well - why is the White House and DNC so eager to jump on the news of anyone with an R next to their name signing a meaningless piece of paper &quot;supporting&quot; reform without looking at the facts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s not really all I&#8217;ll be doing here, but this was too egregious to pass up, and had a national angle as well &#8211; why is the White House and DNC so eager to jump on the news of anyone with an R next to their name signing a meaningless piece of paper &#8220;supporting&#8221; reform without looking at the facts?</p>
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