Seems like pressure from us ethical sorts have moved health care from the costs issue to moral side of the news, an advance, imho. so a yes.

Effective at stating the moral case for healthcare reform and putting six Senators on notice that free clinics will expose how many people in their state need healthcare reform. More pressure on Baucus and the naysayers.

Apparently the first half hour of WJ discussed whether medical care was a moral issue, but I tuned in only after it was over.

I liked it, thought it was effective.

Some of his special comments have been over the top, but this one was effective and very moving. He put a personal face on the issue — his realization that he has the financial means to pay for anything his father needs, while others face similar health crises without those resources.

There were several callers to whom keeping their money was the biggest issue. Wonder if they are the ones who want the bible rewritten.

What is the opposing position on whether it is a moral issue? A little pull yourself up by your bootstraps (if you have boots) or “let them eat cake”? I’m trying here….+ I am not my “brother’s” keeper?

Ethical talk is always self-indulgent talk. But it’s past time this was framed as an ethical argument. It’s also past time for this to be framed as a religious argument. Very effective.

See the comment right above yours. “It’s not fair for the govt to take my money.”

Of course, the morality of the specifics of the program itself (forcing people who cannot afford it to buy ridiculously priced, low benefit “insurance”) is beyond discussion.

i thought he was effective, but i suspect many regular viewers did not watch because they knew what he would talk about and prefer to have him surprise them. and he is not, of course, watched by the opposition.
they would no doubt classify this as a sob story, individual, and in no way the kind of thing that public policy makers should be listening to.

Yes, we crossed…thanks. Then I was pondering the “least of these”. But I should not get started….there are no least of these,or, to say another way, they don’t count. I’ve got mine, now you get yours….whether you’re blind, old, sick, child, O never mind.

I am sure that the free clinics would have a very beneficial effect on the recipients but a very limited effect on the perceptions. My long term goal is to acquire some armored vehicles; sign them as americas insurance industries and then plaster them stickers and banners expressing gratitude to Baucus, etc etc. These vehicles would then be at every event the critter goes to and parked in front of their offices when they are not in state.

I got a tear watching it. I think it was very effective at making the case for “wanting to live” as a priority and also for explaining the fear and the high emotion. It made all the arguments against medicare for all, look pretty greedy and immoral. It made if very clear that people are fighting for their lives here. That people are dying. And that even when people have insurance they are not getting their needs met and are ending up in debt and worried about finances. I thought it was powerful and not angry. Just thoughtful. It made it clear that the whole point of reform is “saving lives” not all the other “silly” concerns that the corporations throw out there. I think his proposal to raise money for free clinics in the states with legislators opposing reform could be effective. Although, I just don’t think Ben Nelson from Nebraska cares one bit about people’s lives. I think it could be quite powerful to others watching however.

OT for SD. I missed him yesterday. This is my Caturday installment. The Cat has turned her brown grocery bag into a crib; she loves it. It appears the well-shaped bag is not a permanent part of our furnishings.

But wait…she also like much better real estate. She is very comfortable, and persistent, as she lodges in the inn of my pretty fine suitcase. As you said, we are on quite a journey. Cheers.

Of course, all those who are so concerned about the preborn are completely absent the medical care debate about life and death.

Mine like suitcases, particularly. Also, occasionally, the glazed paper bags with string handles. They don’t last long.

Olberman seemed to be channeling Glenn Beck with an over-the-top emotional pitch. Before condemning the approach we might want to ask whether the left needs to develop an emotional approach to important issues. Politics doesn’t have to be all cold logic all the time.

Beck has been pretty successful in mobilizing people to fight against their own best interests – would a similar approach on the left mobilize additional people to fight for their self-interest? A little more passion in the service of the good might be desirable.

If Olberman is successful in mobilizing Free Clinics in states with “blue dog” senators and changes a few votes then he may have hit on something the left sorely needs.

I am not sure I know the glazed…SD also said his bunch tear these brown ones up…not this girl…it is her loft/pillow; she has molded it to her counture…what a diva.

conservatives are only concerned about your soul
the living breathing part of you ain’t important

Emotion from the left is shrill. Only emotion from the right is construed as constructive.

Mornin’, pups.

Have to watch it in segments cuz I gots no teebee but I liked the way he addressed the fear of dying. What is the fear? Fear of what happens after death, not death itself. Staying alive prolongs the time we have before we have to face that unknown.

So you can get into heaven even if you behave like a shit to the underclass during your lifetime. I want to see the heaven-application.

The glazed are the fancy bags with string handles ya get in the upscale shops. *g*

Over the years I’ve found that if a tiger can get his/her little body in it they’ll sleep in/on it.

High end stores give out shiny ones, mine are pro’ly snobs at heart.
Oh, that’s sweet, mine like wherever I curled up in a blankie, as soon as I get up for a second.

the opposition has made that emotional connection with some of the voters, it’s called fear
the left has so far failed to make an emotional connection , creating any kind of compassion or empathy among voters

One thing we need more of is stories, true stories that is, on this subject.
People remember stories more than facts, and are more affected by them. Maybe it seems self-indulgent if you have good health and good insurance, but imo it doesn’t seem that way at all if you lack these things.

That’s at the core of the fundie movement. As long as you accept Jesus as your “savior” you can do anything, repeat anything, and be assured a place in heaven. Dobson’s “Family” has built its entire empire on this concept.

And most fear in the elderly/end of life is fear of pain…it can usually be managed, but some folks/drs. resist.

Look at you 2….I guess/yes/ I am really out of the high-end. O Dear..sounds like Angela’s style…she has a high-end lineage….

wear your cross ,quote plenty of scripture and don’t forget the 10% tithe to your church and you’re a shoe in
All that other stuff doesn’t count

The second derivative of predestination?

I thought it was fine. Kristoff’s editorial today (linked by Marion in the last post) could have been written in consultation with Olbermann. It won’t persuade those who have been calling us ”bleeding-heart liberals” all of our lives, but maybe the current economic situation will make it real to a larger part of the population. It does make sense to pursue the moral and humanitarian arguments as well as the pragmatic, since we have the winning argument on both, for anyone who grasps that some things should be separate from the profit motive.

Olberman seemed to be channeling Glenn Beck with an over-the-top emotional pitch…
Beck has been pretty successful in mobilizing people to fight against their own best interests…
he may have hit on something the left sorely needs.

I will be kind and say that is merely ridiculous. Beck is a psychopath and a liar. One reason these statements disturb me is because I have been compared to Beck. But the things I said were factual but the facts were ignored by my neo-con critic. Please do not compare Keith to Beck, especially since you do not discuss Keith’s facts.

Whatever the “left sorely needs”, this is not about left or right or in between. It is all about the MONEY.

You reminded me of a person I suspected was homeless who used to hop on the DART train (and off when an officer got on) carrying a shiny bag from NeimanMarcus, sad that was.

Now breakfast, bbl.

conservatives practice politics they way they practice religion
it’s not what you do that counts it’s what you say ,actions mean nothing

Truth as a defense. Aint that quaint. Went out with the Geneva Conventions.

Hey…I rode DART about 3 weeks ago for the first time….had seen alot of the building progress, but never been on. It is truly swell. Clearly I am going to have to upgrade the cat’s lounge.

Congressional Budget Office (CBO) score’s the baucus plan at $829 Billion over a 10 year period, that is paid for. The CBO also states that it will lower the deficit by $80 Billion and it would be much lower if there was a public option.

Criminally corrupt politicians are the reason the U.S. is ranked near the bottom of every catagory when ranked next to other modern, industrialized nations. Time for publically funded elections.

lieberman $12.6M, mcconnell $7.8M, baucus $7.7M, cornyn $6.7M,
kyl $5.6M, grassley $5.4M, ensign $5.2M, conrad $5.1M, cantor $4.9M,
nelson $4.9M, burr $4.8M, boehner $4.4M, hatch $4.4M, lincoln $4.1M,
vitter $3.9M, carper $3.6M were paid by the Medical Industrial Complex to kill Health Care Reform. (Source: OpenSecrets.org, Aug. 09)

Follow the Money: Link

Call Congress and demand, Single-Payer Health Care for All!

(Toll Free # House and Senate)
1-866-338-1015 _____ 1-866-220-0044
1-800-473-6711 _____ 1-866-311-3405

Sign Single-Payer Petitions: Link Link

Don’t let the Medical Industrial Complex steal your Health Care from you and your family by donating huge sums of money to Crooked Politicians in order to maintain the Status Quo. Keep up the good fight.

SEMPER FI!

I’m off. BBL

And one of mine loves your suitcase!

My MIL was in terrible pain from arthritis in her later years. Her drs would not prescribe narcotics because they were afraid she’d become addicted. In her 80s, who cares. She committed suicide at 85 by overdosing on a combo of her meds. She couldn’t endure the pain any longer.

truth ,a commodity in short supply these days ,never heard so much nonsense in my life
there is a small very vocal minority spreading misinformation that seems to get all the media attention these days
while rational debate and common sense take a back seat

Thanks.

Placing any focused attention on WashingtonDC money politics is useful and KO did do that. Any American not aware of how the money is pouring in to shape this so called American healthcare “reform” is crippled in deep ways from understanding the deeper problems of current American healthcare regimes.

I am convinced Barack Obama gave away far too much in first place with his selection of ditching Single Payer(Medicare For All) and does not seem at all genuine about erecting a strong,viable Federal Government HealthCare Insurance Option either. All the signals coming out of Obama WH ( the WH presided over by Barack Obama) point to the big fix having been paid for to either sabotage any Federal Health Insurance national program or make it so effectively useless and powerless to render same result being arrived at taking longer time to do so.

It is clear the for profit health insurers do not want any regime change coming out of WashingtonDC that takes them out of American healthcare money pools and away from the current skim offs they perform so coldly.

It seems Obama WH does not intend to lay siege to the for profit insurers politically or on basis of moving towards better American governance over this large component of American economy.

Any fall short here in 2009 of total reform and movement towards Single Payer is a political and governance failure. Not taking out the for profit premise will not and cannot move the ball towards any real universal access,cost control or better optics on moral,ethical or social aspects.

KO did last night what should have been on American TV everynight since last March of 2009 in terms of presenting what is wrong with current regime,why it must be demolished and dismantled and the simple wickedness of for profit premise that infests American healthcare here in 2009.

The money politics that are infesting WashingtonDC and thwarting any real reform of American healthcare must be confronted and those who are doing the buying / selling and accepting the corruption exposed.

Be they President Obama and his WH or Democrats or Republicans in Congress.

In a lot of cases Doctors are afraid to prescribe narcotics . they are afraid of being flagged for investigation by the DEA or state regulators for prescribing too many narcotics
People really don’t understand just how much government is involved in your healthcare already

You make me feel guilty! I keep taking it back home. sorry, Maxx

RevBev, agreed. Love the DART.

And now am eating the breakfast I jes’ made.

Had jury duty last week, and the most inhumane, callous, meanspirited person on our jury was a “Christian” lady from Hyde Park Baptist Church, a crrreeeeeepy upscale megachurch here in town. She wanted to throw the book at a young African-American man who had committed an aggravated robbery (in which nobody got hurt) the day after he turned 18, even though he’s kept his nose clean in the two years since and has started back to school (not to mention the extenuating circumstances of his horrible childhood).

Most of us were in favor of 10 years parole and some county jail time, but she wanted him to go to prison for 10 years. We actually had to explain the concepts of mercy and redemption to her. Anyway, we finally convinced her if with nothing else, that taxpayers were going to have to foot the bill for yet another jury.

Also, before we’d gotten all the evidence and were not yet allowed to deliberate, cable teevee news was on and we got into a discussion of health care reform. Her arguement: “People die. Ted Kennedy had the best health coverage in the world, but he died.” Nasty piece of work she was.

I don’t have a lot, but I am gonna open my checkbook when KO gets the clinics set up and asks for donations. If we Firepups support this like we’ve supported other initiatives, we could make a difference AND draw attention to the cause!

Oh, Maxxine’s doing fine, Ruth, except was a bit traumatized (along w/ Ms. Karmina) by my being gone so much last week; I couldn’t come home for lunch, and was in the jury room until late in the evening a couple of times. They were very sweet and loving last weekend when they finally had me home. ;)

What a story! Not surprising, though. What a world. Just wait until she dies. She might be surprised at what she finds. You shall be judged as you have judged. Not literally, maybe, but I believe actions and attitudes have consequences.

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Irak: 4349

US KIA Afghanistan: 869

US MBS 2009: 34,720

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.

Namaste

Watch yer backside out there today.

As a friend of mine says, scratch a fundamentalist Christian, and you’ll find an old, bloodthirsty Roman underneath.

New post up top..

So many reich wing Christians, so few lions.

Lions with good taste, might spit folks like her out. Blech.

I watched last night and could barely hold back the tears. By the end I completely lost it. It made me feel ashamed to live in a country that would do this to it’s own people. To me there was nothing over the top or Beck like about this. As for us liberals possibly being seen as a bunch of bleeding hearts….I DON’T GIVE A SHIT! I only wish that one of Keith’s big fans Teddy Kennedy was still alive to have seen it. To all Republicans and Conservatives….KISS MY ASS! ONE DAY THE REAPER WILL COME FOR YOU. ROT IN HELL!

Self-indulgent? I didn’t see it that way at all. There were several times, he looked near tears. Are you suggesting he put VapoRub under his eyes a la Glenn Beck? I saw it as a heartfelt account.

Here’s a thought. It was a question, self-indulgent or effective? I believe BT was posing this as a discussion starter.

Dear Roxsteady,
Of course, you are free to speak your mind, but I worry for folks who seem to be on the verge of bursting. Can’t be good for your health. Maybe a short brisk walk would help.

Look at Podcasts on iTunes. They have all Olbermann and Maddow shows. And who knows what else? I have teevee and TiVo, so don’t usually use it, but it is there. And the best part? The entire show, in one clip — without commercials!

To me, it’s the opposite — it depends on whether you are a Type A personality or Type B.

I had a stroke several years ago? Was it from getting mad and showing it? No! It was getting mad and not being able to show it (usually at work!).

I think if your personality begs you to get mad, you should. That is healthy.

Could be. Whatever. I felt better after making my comment.

I don’t doubt you are right, but BT’s choice of framing was exceedingly poor.

Don’t we spend an inordinate amount of time here complaining about the MSM? And yet, when KO rises to the occasion (brilliantly imo) a front page post here uses an insult to start the discussion? I am genuinely stunned.

FWIW my favorite part of the comment was the statistical comparison between our current trends and the comparative death rates in Dickensian Manchester. I thought that was particularly effective, but then I’m a numbers kind of person. I thought the whole thing was excellent and long overdue.

Please BT, when someone makes such an eloquent case on our behalf, don’t frame their delivery in a way that gives the opposition an easy way to be dismissive. We’ve got enough framing battles as it is.

I guess I agree, Phred. I was startled to see the “self indulgent” frame. I never for a minute thought “self indulgent” during the hour, and like others, I wound up with tears because he connected it so eloquently to his father’s suffering. I think I know how BT meant it, but it was definitely a negative slant on KO’s exceptionally effective commentary.

don’t frame their delivery in a way that gives the opposition an easy way to be dismissive.
Blue Texan has the challenging task of writing a post, sometimes several, each day. It must be difficult to do this and not hit a few nerves here and there. I don’t think BT is worried about giving the opposition anything. They aren’t here, are they? And, so what?
That’s just my take, anyway.

Oh, Well said!!!!

This must be one of those, it depends on how one is reading it. Like, all the filters we each have that skews our perceptions. I just didn’t see it as negative, just a conversation starter. But, I understand that some folks saw it that way.

PS, I just took some cinnamon rolls out of the oven. Made with low fat bisquick, skim milk, cinnamon and splenda, so they are fairly healthy. I’ll just leave them on the counter over here for any pups who would like one.

His analysis of how the US mortality rate compares to that of England in 1843 was powerful stuff. In 3 years, an uninsured non-smoker will have have same mortality rate as an insured ex-smoker… and in 13 years the US insured/uninsured will have the same discrepant mortality rates as the haves/have-nots of Dickensian England (uninsured will have 53% higher mortality than insured). In the mid-90’s, the discrepancy was only 25%.

In America, you have to have insurance to stay alive.

I turned it off.

Although I love Keith’s show in general, when his mouth gets rolling on and on and on and on…I’d rather do something else.

conservatives are only concerned about your soul
the living breathing part of you ain’t important

…which shows how lost they (conservatives) are, since the two inhabit each other and attempts to split them up (like dualisim) lead to depression and mental illness.

Frankly, we (my wife and I) loved Keith’s presentation, but then we don’t fear our emotional sides. We prefer to live life fully…

Both Sides Now…

So you can get into heaven even if you behave like a shit to the underclass during your lifetime. I want to see the heaven-application.

Only if the stinkin’ luxury appointed camel you rode in one can manage to get through the eye of that looming needle…

The Heaven app. begins with the question, “How well did you love your neighbor?” And if you have to ask, “Who is my neighbor,” you’ll be referred to the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

Have conservatives cowed some liberals into fearing their emotions, and thus supressing them? That is not healthy at all.

It’s a Question of Balance. Guess I’m into quoting rock song titles today…

Please BT, when someone makes such an eloquent case on our behalf, don’t frame their delivery in a way that gives the opposition an easy way to be dismissive. We’ve got enough framing battles as it is.

Isn’t that rather condescending? Whatever happened to acceptance? Some frame, others express…

Did you see Peterr’s post last night on that very parable? Lovely.

It was a bit overwrought in places, even given the subject matter, but it also made a great many important points. The most basic one is that this has been a debate in which our own fears about death have been the elephant in the room. Olbermann put that part in perspective. And, as he said, he wanted to shout, but there’s been plenty of shouting already. Restraint on this issue is very hard. It’s not too surprising given the stakes. I wish lots of people who aren’t on the progressive end of the political spectrum will watch it, but I fear that few will. It’s too bad.

Keith is a bit overwrought sometimes, but I thought this time, actually, he was pretty restrained. I also thought it was moving and from the heart. He distilled all the emotional arguments FOR reform into this one comment. I have my own stories about the humiliation my ill father endured in the hospital, which was understaffed to say the least. My poor father also fell out of bed, after being tied in by the overworked nurse who left him dangling upside down restrained by one leg for 4 hours. And this was in a “good” hospital.

I hope it is effective. We are certainly talking about it today.
I find that my more cynical (they would say realistic) friends and acquaintances thought it was too much and those who still have a few hopes and dreams left (they would say humanity) liked it.

Call me a dreamer.

I thought it was wonderful and powerful and heartfelt. I wanted to facebook it but knew that half of my old/white/repuke friends would de-friend me….and I’d rather continue to try to educate them. Would that there were more KO’s to speak truth to the greedsters and the followers.