Welcome to FDL Movie Night. Quick reminder to refresh your browsers and if replying to a comment, hit the “reply to comment button.” I’ll apologize in advance for my typing. Please stay on topic, which tonight includes the awesome film Orgasm Inc, the marketing of female sexual dysfunction, drug marketing by Big Pharma…

That being said, let’s welcome director Liz Canner. Liz for those who haven’t seen Orgasm Inc, how and why did you make the documentary?

Thank you for having me on FDL Movie Night and for writing such a kind, steaming review, Lisa.

Sex is sexy. I love sex and think everyone should have lots of sex and ENJOY IT!

So how did you come, so to speak, to make Orgasm Inc? (apologies for my puns, I hope you’re all up for the discussion to night…)

Welcome Liz.. Allow me to begin by saying I liked the intro all the way through the shaking test tube with titles in it. Nicely done.

It is a really BEAUTIFULLY made documentary, very lively and engaging and pop culturally aware. Super fun!

After a decade of producing documentaries on human rights issues – genocide, police brutality, globalization and homelessness – the harrowing images from my movies were giving me nightmares. I decided that this new project would be on something more pleasurable then I thought why not make a movie about the science of female pleasure. I was hoping to change the script in my head and have better dreams. Little did I know at the time what I was getting myself into…

Evening, Liz; I’m still trying to figure out if all of this stuff is really all about the cult of youth. To me, it does seem to all boil down to trying to send a message of youth=fertility.

My computer won’t let me watch the clip, not because of censorship issues, just doesn’t have the proper software. But, I welcome Liz and thank Lisa for this discussion.
I will try to be proper. That’s all I can promise. Lisa (should) know I’m kind of a free spirit and will always join a discussion about women and our rights, our privacy and the need to diminish whatever exploitation is being “Thrust” on us.
Vagina cosmetics? You’ve got to be kidding me.
We come when we want to come.

Vivus-the company that hired you to edit porn for their clinical trials of a new female sex drug–actually hit the market wiht a make sex drug 14 months before Viagra…and yet no one knows abotu their man=product. Were they out spent by Viagra?

Toby, I have to say, no, it’s probably more of a control issue. Youth are in fact fertile. Old ladies are not. Just how it works. BTW, I had my last child at 42. Not a youth, but not as Mature as I am now.

The impotent man with a giant bow-tie… initiating all that research. Steven Colbert couldn’t manufacture a scoop large enough for that much irony.

Right on Demi! And we all wired a bit differently pyschologically and physically. Wiht regards to the porn videos, it’s standard thinking–and maybe this is old school–that men are aroused more by visuals and women by words, ie we prefer to read porn than to watch it. Or is that just old school pre-feminis theory because it’s more ladylike to read books that look at smutty pictures?

So I found it intriguing that videos would be used rather than books for the clinical trials

Lisa, please forgive my ot. Keith will have a full hour special comment on Wednesday and it sounds like he’ll be calling for action on our parts!!!

You’re also a potty mouth so be good.

Sorry, on health care.

Dr Matlack and other laser vagina surgeons do “plumping” of the labia and mons ot make them appear more girlish and round, and the labia can change shape after child birth, so there is a youth tie in and desire to look more like airbrushed centerfolds

Back in the 70s I read The Hite Report, which made a big splash at the time. It was really eye-opening. As Lisa implies in her intro, female sexuality is much more complicated than male sexuality.

I’m home with some young ones. I’ll have to watch this at work tomorrow. But I’ll lurk for now.

I almost wrote Male Control in my comment to Toby, but self censored, which fits into the use of videos instead of books.
I just want the Colors. I just want to feel. (More later.)

Thanks for your comment, Toby. Many of the women getting designer vaginas are having their labia’s made smaller. This in many ways makes them look like teenagers. In fact, there is an episode of Dr. 90210 where Dr. Matlock, the wizard of Oz behind these surgeries (he owns the trademark on designer vaginas), is performing a Designer Laser Vaginoplasty on a woman and he looks at the camera and says, “he is making her look like a 15 year old girl.” He then goes on to say that he is a feminist.

On my best behaviour. (Hi, honey.)

Like I said, I’ll have to watch another time but just reading the intro and the comments — this is fascinating stuff.

Well, that’s a shame, but necessary i guess. How ya dune? 42? Got me and the missus beat by 2 years. Good job.

Matlock was truly creepy. I was actually repulsed by him, In the article I wrote about him I mentioned the fake flowers in his office which I though so fitting; he complained ot my publisher about that! He has some seriously issues, and like the Bermans, is master of marketing and self promotion.

Matlock’s sale rep seemed really disturbed by your questions, Liz and said she was going to think about getting a new job, but I guess she realized medical sales rep gigs are hard to come by and decided ot keep selling her soul.

I’ve always had the attitude that our biggest sex organ was our brains.

I’ve never liked the attitude of drug companies in particular, but society in general when it comes to sexuality and I’ve always LOATHED the term “performance.” PERFORMANCE! Like you’re running a race or something! Feh!

The less uptight of a culture we could be, the better the orgasm everyone would have. Particularly women, since they bear the brunt of the male dominated culture out of proportion.

That opinion is just anecdotal of my personal gay man life experience.

You’re right, Lisa. Part of the reason Vivus lost their market share to Viagra was that Pfizer had a much larger marketing budget. The dollars spent on direct to consumer advertising of a pharmaceutical has a big impact on sales. The US and New Zealand are the only countries in the world that allow DTC. This could be one of the reasons we make up only 5% of the worlds population but we account for 42% of the worlds spending on prescription drugs.

Yes, sexuality has a huge psychological component!

Who knew?

I’m triple-tracking here, working, KO and this discussion, so I probably won’t say much, but it’s a discussion that’s long overdue.

Labia plumping? WTF??!!! I don’t want my labia “plumped.” All the rest of me is plumping, and I’ll thank Dr. Whoozitz to leave my damn labia alone.

One of the women in the film Charletta admits that her religious upbringing as affected her views on sexuality. It was gnarly to see her implanted wiht an electrode in her spine inthe hopes of achieving orgasm during “marital relations.” It dind;t work, but wow, the Orgasmatron people sure spun their study results (91% of women in the test) when in reality…it was 9out of 10, but then some had ot have the device removed

This could be one of the reasons we make up only 5% of the worlds population but we account for 42% of the worlds spending on prescription drugs.

The other reason might be that our medical delivery and costing system is screwed up beyond belief.

I just want to say I’m very glad you made this movie, and I wish you great success with it.

Liz, where can people see ORGASM INC?

You know, this brings all sorts of weird ideas into my head – like designers using females who look like they are 14 or 15 years old, and the whole fetishization in Japan in terms of females dressing up like school kids in uniforms. I realize that it starts to sound like its wandering into pedophilia territory when it also could be wandering into the whole ‘women can’t show actual mature sexual characteristics’ (other than in some cases large breasts), such as wide hips, fat on the thighs and so on.

Besides that, who do you tell? Do you go to parties and ask if anyone wants to see? And who in the world is looking? I just find this hilarious…..women are crazy to have this done.

Marion, one of these days you and I will have to have a discussion about ‘labia plumping and Chinese foot binding’.

He’s 15 now, was the easiest of the birthings. The light of my life.
BTW, having just returned from The Wedding, there was a lot of hormones flowing. Out of town event, and lots of folks at the hotel. I bet everyone got laid. And, nope, I didn’t see anyone passing out surgery coupons or pharmaceutical aids either.
It’s the Vibe, man. That’s what it is.

While making Orgasm Inc., I spoke with many women who thought they had female sexual dysfunction because they did not have orgasms during intercourse. They were shocked to find out that 70% of women need direct clitoral stimulation in order to climax. This misconception leaves us wide open for exploitation by the medical industrial complex. It really speaks to the need for comprehensive sex education for one and all.

Is ‘yuck’ an appropriate comment? I didn’t know there was a business model for this sort of thing. Silly me. Note to self. Go back and re-read Marx. Shine the light on these cockroaches.

Except that the only ‘comprehensive sex education’ going on in most parts of the US is based on the crappy ‘abstinence only’ junk.

OT response : Our parts stand at the ready!

If everyone got laid then it was a good wedding.

Toby, I hope you didn’t take my comment as a slight. Wasn’t meant that way at all.

I don’t know if my mother ever bound my feet (I still wear a 5½ shoe) … JUST JOKING… but a discussion of the ways women are expected to torture themselves for “beauty” would be fascinating… Neck stretching, anyone?

Haven’t been to a wedding in years, but there really is A Vibe.

Oh, good heavens no.

It cna actually be very dangerous. As Liz shows in Orgasm Inc, one woman who had vaginal cosmetic surgery popped a stitch and nearly bled to death. Plus there are LOTS of nerves down there, and having your pelvic walls lasered can be not so good for you.

Being surrounded by all that happiness and love and hope for the future can be a real aphrodisiac… One of the other things that can drive folks into bed is tragedy or loss, probably a life-affirming response.

Lisa thanks for asking where people can see Orgasm Inc. Right now the movie is making the rounds in the festival circuit and is slated to be broadcast on TV in many countries. The best thing to do is to check our website periodically to see if it is coming to a theater near you (no innuendo intended).
http://www.orgasminc.org

I thought one of the points of our libertation movement was to be ourselves. Speaking of torture, I’ve never killed myself to wear those Crazy Shoes. I may be a weird one and a potty mouth, but I’ve always worn sensible, yet attractive shoes, and I don’t have bunyons or bone spurs.
What I’m saying is Fuck That Shit. (I said that for Beerfart.)
PS, We Come When We Want To Come.

In my anthro class we watched a doc on female circumcision which was shown as part of a larger cultural context and a centures old tradition that prepares women for marriage.

The movie sounds so interesting and will drive the wingnuts out of their tiny minds. Glad you made it.

Yes, dear. And, a lot of vodka and a really good (female, if I might add) dj spinning the hottest stuff.

I can damn near guarantee you that it will NEVER, EVER, EVER show up here. Are there plans to release it on DVD?

It’s not wondering in to pedophilia territory. It’s smack dab in the middle of it.

Neck stretching, anyone?

First I ever heard of hanging being a beauty aid.

Okay, you might know this….the whole pedophilia thing, is that connected to one’s having been molested as a child. Don’t know what to ask about the Asian thingie.

It’s for real… Chacun a son gout, I guess…

The designer vagina surgeries need to be regulated. Why is it so much easier to talk about genital mutilation in Africa? As The British Medical Journal points out, these surgeries are a form of genital mutilation. There are now over 200 of Matlock’s designer vagina clinics and this does not include OB/GYNs and plastic surgeons who are doing there own version of the surgery. Genital mutilation is growing the fastest in developed countries.

Thank you. Much appreciated.

As someone who was molested as a child let me assure you that, at least for me, the sexualization of children or the infantilization of adults gives me a case of the screeching horrors. I can’t begin to tell you my feelings about Jon Benet Ramsey and that whole baby pageant horror show…

When did the skin mags shift from the “natural” look to the pre-pubescent look?

Yes, there are plans to release Orgasm Inc. on DVD in about a month or so. If you sign up for our email list you will be sent info as soon as it is available. Thanks.

timely front page article at salon.com:

Why do women have sex?

For the same reasons men do, explain the authors of a groundbreaking new book that looks deep inside female desire

By Tracy Clark-Flory

Wow, I haven’t seen that since the days when National Geographic were the only mag showing nude women.

I was pleased to see my article on Matlock reprinted in a journal of African culture in their issue on genital mutilation.

The lack of peer review on that is INSANE –Botox, juvederm, other cosmetic surgeries are peer reviewed. And Matlock is injecitng collagen in to G spots he is a sick dude, IMO.

Excellent! Thanks.

Question – Liz — something I am definitely not clear on is this: Are there standards for education and licensing in terms of cosmetic surgeons? Is it different by state? This sort of surgery, no matter how one feels philosophically or politically about it, is messing around in an area where if something goes wrong, the patient can end up with medical problems that could end in death.

Yay!!!

I thought that the ultimate aphrodisiac was an American Express Black Card.

sorry. back to radio silence.

(((Marion)))
I was thinking about the guy fetish. But, I’m so sorry. Just trying to figure out the pubescent thing. Maybe they are going back to when they first had Urgings. Don’t know.

Liz, have any drugs been approved in the US for female sexual dysfunction, or has it been a non-starter disease?

The answer is probably a “yes and no” situation. This is one of the lead stories on AOL, which reaches millions, so maybe people will start to ask if the person who’s about to cut their face is board-certified, or if the procedure is accepted medical care.

Do the insurance companies cover “treatment” of FSD?

Thanks for the hugs. At least I can talk about it now… If someone ever figures out what creates/drives a pedophile they would really deserve a Nobel Prize.

There is no documented evidence that these surgeries improve sexual function- in fact – they have been found to do the opposite. According to ACOG designer vagina surgery can cause “infection, altered sensation, pain and scarring”.

Someone fucked them up.
Can I have my prize now?

Here’s a link from the Mayo Clinic that addresses the issue.

Here ya go — take this shiny new internetz as thread winner!

Thanks, sweetie. Almost makes me wanna go outside and have cigarette.
“O”.

The scary thing about these surgeries is that they are being performed mostly by OB/GYNs. Talk about a conflict of interest. I have read accounts on chat rooms where women talk about asking their OB/GYN if their labia seemed abnormally large and guess what – they were told yes. Their doctor then told them a quick procedure could fix the “problem”.

According to ACOG designer vagina surgery can cause “infection, altered sensation, pain and scarring”.

Which kinda, sorta is 180º opposed to WHY most fools women go under this particular knife in the first place? Jeez — I once got a deep cut on my finger and it took 6 months for the sensation to come back to close to normal. And there are women who voluntarily allow (I’ll bet almost all male? any statistics on this?) surgeons to slash around with knives in their vaginas? Do they simply not understand nerves and nerve regeneration? And that’s with a GOOD outcome, with no infection, pain or scarring…

Can we all say ‘revenue enhancement’? I bet you could…

That is very sad. Why are women always told that THEY have a problem and they accept it. These doctors doing this should be investigated.

Not exactly the response the women were looking for. Kegel exercises can be much moer effective for the “tightening” that Matlock promises with his revisionist incontinence surgery.

The stuff he does is just grotesque.

With regards to orgasms, here is in many parts of America a total lack of awareness about sex. It’s like the Victorian times. Yet at the same time “ppassion parties” basically tupperware parties but wiht sex toys, vibrators, lingerie, fuzzy hand cuffs and (ugh) white chocolate body butter” are a growing business, so at least women are taking control of their own bodies (and economies)

I almost died with my first two child births. OBGYN’s. The last one, I insisted on a female mid-wife, a woman who had done, like, a thousand deliveries in Africa. Like night and day, the difference.
PS, I’m not a man hater, yet…..

Because..to be born female is to be born imperfect: not tall enough, not short enough, not thin enough, not cute enough…what you are, all by yourself is never..ever..enough.

(((Kegel)))
I have a friend who had a tummy tuck. Then she started eating again. But, she still has that scar. I joined the gym.
Work that muscle!!!

When I began making Orgasm Inc. nine years ago, pharma said they would have a Viagra drug available in a year or so. Well, there is still no FDA approved drug for FSD. The only thing that has been approved is an over-priced sex toy called the EROS CTD. It sucks and vibrates the clitoris and costs around $350. You get it with a prescription from your doctor.

Of course, you could also go to your local sex store where they have a wide variety of toys to choose from and they will cost you a lot less.

And a lot of women have bought into it. I just have a hard time imagining having something so painful and useless done to yourself….even if you feel you are missing something.

Ain’t that the God’s gospel truth. I was too short and too thin when I was younger… I’m still too short, and now I’m getting gray hair and wrinkles… I rebelled early and often, and have never worn makeup and am rather looking forward to being a “crone,” a role model I’ve stolen from the Wiccans.

The Eros CTD sounds not unlike the early vibrators developed ot cure “hysteria” whihc is basically a lack of orgasmic response, There’s a version of the ‘water cure” for hysteria here

Yes, but, people will treat us the way we allow them to. Girl Scout/Whore. Perfect Housewife?Bring home a huge paycheck.
I learned something during the feminist movement that I’ve taken to heart.
May I say, Fuck That Shit. Just don’t buy it. You can be whoever you want to be. Just do it. (Sorry if that’s too Nikeish.)

Crone stage sounds fun. All joy of sex without worrying about pregnancy!

I’m just working on keeping my teeth.

FLOSS!

Liz, is Vivus still in business? what are they working on?

I am presently in the process of financing my dentists’ (please note the plural possessive) yachts, and will be sending all of their children to Ivy League schools…

And Liz, what is your next project?

Notice how all the guys dropped off? They thought we were going to talk about SEX! Ha ha ha ha….

It is like the Victorian times but with lots of porn everywhere. We are a schizophrenic culture when it comes to sex.

Most sex education courses teach genital anatomy but do NOT include the clitoris. Hello. Also, doctors themselves are not educated about sex. They get on average 10 hours of human sexuality training in medical school. This includes how to talk to patients with AIDs, etc. The majority of their training comes from CME courses funded by pharma.

There’s almost nothing more terrifying to a male than a frank discussion of female sexuality!

Remember – we’re devouring…

I’ll bet we have 5000 lurkers though.

Hey! I can only speak for myself, but I have shut up and am listening/learning.

Pretyy close Twain!

Frankly I feel too much emphasis is placed on sex and orgasm and so forth. Yes it’s a basic human “need” and believed to be something we are owned by our bodies and our lovers. But sex also seems to take over too many people’s lives, lead to marital infidelity, and even sexual addiction.

I’d like to see people more concerned about less hedonistic issues. We have a culture which encourages hedonism and distraction from more serious matters. I’m all for having fun, but I see too many younger people spend their lives in pursuit of it.

Clitoris!!!
I got tired of telling them/showing them where it was.
Oooops. Too much information.

Vivus is still in business. They are developing a number of lifestyle drugs including a testosterone drug for women and a premature ejaculation drug for men (premature ejaculation is another new disease).

Trying to pick up tips? [snort]

What? You mean the little man in teh boat?!?

The porn industry is supposed in be in the multiple billion dollar a year zone, not to mention the constant marketing of everything with young sexy women. And then there’s the constant adds for little blue pills and cialis.

We really are a culture out of balance and out of touch with what are bodies are there for…. I think.

No, Marion..that’s for the circumcision discussion down the hall and to the left. (going back to the corner now)

Premature ejaculation is now just a disease? wow. I would htink it’s a ‘condition” and subjective as well, like if the ejaculator is fine wiht it…

They’re trying to find out how women might feel about that pill that might last for 4 hours.

I certainly understand your point, but seeing as this was specifically planned as a discussion of sexuality and the politics/economics/power issues surrounding it as played out on women’s bodies…

As far as sex in relationships go, each partner should assume the responsibility of the other’s pleasure. That’s you obligation. Too often sex, I would think is basically masturbation and using another person for your own selfish need – basically a kind of rape. You need to learn and be taught how to excite and satisfy your partner FIRST.

You haz given me a funneh…!

Talk about your Sex Education.
Aye Aye, Sailor!.
(Are you guys listening? Taking notes?)

Four hours is a bit much. I have to let the dog out and like write, get my nails done….

Liz,doesn;t it seem creepy that there are some many dseases being “created”/marketed? I kinda hold wiht th old model: do you have a fever? Does it ache/ can you go to school/work….

Women are completely objectified in this culture. They have been made to think that their role is to fashion themselves into some sort of sex doll in the image of men. Look at the cosmetic surgery industry where women now insert silicon and saline into their chests and look like blow up sex dolls. Girls ask for a boob job as a graduation from high school gift from their parents.

I don’t watch pop music vids but they are close to porn. Women are either buying into this narrative (brainwashed) or forced against their will or considered freaks for not going with the program.

Or, is there blood? Vomiting? If not, honey, clean the toilet or get your nails did. Ha.
Or, go hang out at the Lake.

One thing that men should learn from this thread is that women are very funny and don’t mind talking about themselves.

I just want to remind people to check out the website ORGASM INC, and sign up for updates about the film in your area and for DVD release news.

Also, Outrage, which was a Movie Night feature is airing on HBO this week, so if you missed it in theatres…

I suspect more than a few are getting ready for the Monday night football. 8)

I always asked the experts that I interviewed the most important thing that they had learned in all the years they had studied sex. My favorite answer came from Professor Kim Wallen of Emory University. He had studied the sexual interactions of monkeys for over 20 years. His response – to pay more attention to females. Females are telling males a lot but they don’t pick up on the cues.

If you can;t type about sex while watching football, what kind of a mammal are you?

Too many women are intimidated by the media to want to be like what they see on the tele. it’s about marketing garbage of one sort or another. And then there’s the never ending pursuit of being fashionable which lasts but 6 months. How absurd.

As a male I’ve been wearing more or less the same things for 50 years!

It slops over into dentistry too… You’re a total fracking failure as a human being if your teeth aren’t unnaturally white and perfectly aligned… Or maybe you want “tooth jewels?” If dentists feel that they’re going out of business because fluoridation cut down on cavities in the younger population perhaps they could lobby Congress to add dental care to Medicare. Don’t even ask how a diseased mouth can drive your general health down into the crapper…

Liz THANK YOU SO MUCH for jumping into the Lake and discussing Orgasm Inc wiht us and giving us a great movie night

I don’t watch football nor base ball nor basketball. As a youth I played sports, but have moved on to politics…. hahaha I passed the car insanity without stopping as well.

Oh, my gosh. It’s 6:30! There’s probably a new thread up about the never ending blah blah blah about the health care. I should probably go start dinner. Being the good little woman that I am.
Thank you, Lisa and Liz. Always good to talk about Women’s Rights and Sex and other accompanying issues.
((((Lisa Derrick)))) – you’re a freak, lady. And, I mean that with the most loving heart.

Very enjoyable and fascinating movie night. Thanks, Liz and Lisa.

Seconded and “thirded” here. I’m going to be up late tonight because I made a liar of myself and blew off my work because this discussion was so riveting. I’ll be looking for the DVD…

Don’t watch it myself. I would agree that men need to pay more attention to the cues women give them. Too often there are distractions like Monday night football.

Evenin’ Lisa and Firedogs

Welcome to Firedoglake Liz Canner, and I can not wait to see your film.

my first clue this shit was being perpetrated on women for profit – about 20 years ago, some ‘college’ of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons somehow got small breasts classified as a disease/disability – clearly in hopes of having their friends in the Insurance industry play ball – think they even had Psychiatrists considering some syndrome surrounding it and including it in the DSM – but it was rescinded soon after – should’ve known they weren’t going to stop there

hey JayT, I’m late to the party ’cause my boyfriend took me out for a nice dinner wink, wink

You want I should make you a cuppa coffee? (Marion)

Thanks for hosting such a thoughtful discussion about Orgasm Inc.

I hope everyone signs up for the email blasts so I can keep you up-to-date on the movie. http://www.orgasminc.org

It’ll only make me whirl like a lathe in bed all night, but thanks for the thought! I will take another beer to see me through, however…!

And women need to listen to men and not be controlling and whiny. I can’t speak for samesex couples, except to say for everyone the key to long term good sex overall is humor, kindness, communication and respect. Oh and CHEMICALS, that pheremone response..whew! That is killer!

Over at LiveScience: For women, sex and happiness go together

Okay, honey. Or, here’s a cup of tea…chamomille. Sleep tight when it happens.

…the key to long term good sex happiness overall is humor, kindness, communication and respect. Oh and CHEMICALS, that pheremone response..whew! That is killer!

Small fix…!

I’m exaggerating, as can sometimes be my wont… Thanks for the lovely, soothing tea. [adding honey] YUM! I’ll be snuggled up in the arms of Morpheus pretty soon.

Don’t we all? Exaggerate. Really going to make dinner now.
Hugs and O’s to all.
Thanks again, Lisa.

Oh, you gotta love it…! Rachel just informed us that one of the 3 Nobel Prize winners in Medicine was fired by W. You just CAN’T make this stuff up, you know…

ha ha ha The dunce strikes out again.

btw, I know some anthropologists who would have a field day with this stuff and it’s correlation to female genital mutilation

Thanks Lisa !

Just signed up for an e-mail alert for when the DVD is available. It’s quick and easy, and if you’re in a place like Savannah where the film will NEVER be shown please go to the film’s web site and do likewise.

Great post, Lisa, thanks to Liz for her work, it’s an utterly fascinating and horrifying expose of yet MORE corporate feudalism and exploitation of humans, in this case, the female of the species.

And thank you ladies, for all the sarcasm, humor, banter, and also great INSIGHTS into things our society often tries to keep hidden from view.

I hope you all will truly appreciate there ARE many men out here that don’t fit the standard molds regarding a lack of understanding of women’s sexualities. Why, I’ve met at least a few in MY lifetime. I’m one of the lucky one’s. When younger, my teen gal pals were VERY explicit about things. As I got older, and blew up a couple of relationships I learned more. And one day, I got VERY LUCKY, met my wife 25 years ago, and she’s been schooling me ever since. *G*

I like the disclaimer! Everyone’s going to need a generic disclaimer now!

It’s just like tattoos and piercings–people are curious as to what any sort of body modification looks like…even if they aren’t thinking of having it done. You can’t stop people from wondering and being curious…at least I hope you can’t.