We’ve heard about the problems facing the merely rich. Now the New York Times wants us to care about the problems of the super-rich, the families that control the nation. Possibly anticipating derision, the writer, Paul Sullivan, provides this warning:
Before you start laughing up your sleeve, be advised that this is not a good thing. When the super-rich get cold feet, the rest of America gets swine flu. They are, after all, the people who might finance new companies that create jobs, make big investments to support existing companies and spread their wealth throughout the economy.
Here is the difference between bloggers and the opinion reporters of the New York Times. If I said trickle-down economics was good for America, I’d provide a link to some evidence that it might be true. If I couldn’t find a link, I would at least offer some reason for the statement. Mr. Sullivan doesn’t provide evidence for his assertion, in the face of an obvious fact that contradicts his assertion. If the rich had invested in productive assets before the great crash of 2008, we’d have something to show, maybe a manufacturing sector like we used to have, or maybe something new like a green industry. I don’t see any new industries.
I’d say the first great crash of the 21st century was caused by those super-rich families, whose greedy search for impossible returns led to investments in pools of fake mortgage notes, wild-eyed gambling on the credit of other people, and the Ponzi schemes of Bernie Madoff.
And, as you are entitled to expect, there’s evidence for my assertion. Consider hedge funds. The rich people who threw money at these masters of the universe agreed to pay 2% of assets and 20% of returns for the purported expertise. You’d have to expect enormous returns to do better than a mutual fund, and indeed, it didn’t happen. In fact, the superrich seem to have lost confidence in this idiotic arrangement: assets under management by hedge funds dropped from $2.5bn to $1.3bn since last year.
What were those hedge funds doing with the money? One of their investments was pools of mortgages and debt instruments, Collateralized Mortgage Obligations and Collateralized Debt Obligations (CMOs and CDOs). Some of the funds bought CMOs and then sought protection by buying credit default swaps from the likes of AIG. Others wanted to bet against the pools, using credit default swaps and other complicated strategies, so their bank counterparties bought AIG credit default swaps. It was the CDS part that worked out, since taxpayers bailed them out of the AIG disaster.
The NYT tells us that Paul Sullivan “writes about strategies that the wealthy use to manage their money and their overall well-being.” This link carries you to a Wall Street Journal article which reports on a paper from the Kennedy School of Government of Harvard. The WSJ tells us:
Trickle-down economics, a centerpiece of conservative economic thinking for many decades, failed to deliver its promise of distributing wealth across the economy….
So, Mr. Sullivan of the New York Times, All the Opinions that are Fit to Print, where’s the evidence for your assertion about trickle-down?
Related posts:





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

The wingers will not give up their trickle-down ideology just because carrying out their proposed policies proved catastrophic to the world economy.
Sounds like a Club For Growth PR piece sponsored by the NYT’s.
Time for a Blogger Ethics Panel.
If I said trickle-down economics was good for America, I’d provide a link to some evidence that it might be true
The New York Times couldn’t possilby provide a link because it would have to support the fact that their assertion is patently false.
Isn’t this argument pure feudalism? We should be grateful for the gentry who let us live on their land, and we should take bread from our table for their use?
we should take bread from our table for their use
don’t you have a few good looking daughters about? See; seignoral rights.
- http://www.independent.co.uk/n…..79088.html -
The evidence is actually the opposite pattern. As wealth disparity increased we’ve consisently seen that the US gets plunged into near depressions or deep recessions. Unemployment increases…which results in the wealthy (many of them) losing their wealth [both the wealthy and middle-class contracts]. Certainly a few of the wealthiest still do well, but they increasingly defend their status.
When, however, employment levels and wages for the poor and middle calss rise the number of those in the Upper Middle class becoming wealthy increases. Gains at the bottom fuels upward rise. It’s bubble up, not trickle down.
Exactly right;
“Unsound policies have been their mainstay, and the disaster that resulted from their sway over all of the branches of government has proved for all time that disempowerment of the public is the worst thing that can occur for this country, and for the world.”
at http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/8641
The trickle down effect does work, only it is not money trickling down.
William Wallace and Robert the Bruce had the right idea.
If trickle-down economics actually worked, Arthur Betz Laffer would be the most revered economist in the world today.
Since the reign of Raygun Ronny lots of wealth has been flowing to the top five percent of Americans year in and year out. As for the top one percent of Americans when ranked for wealth grab it cannot be denied this small slice at top of American social and economic strata has done very well.
So should we just feel sorry for this top five percent because despite having command of large swaths of American wealth they just don’t have enough yet?
Somewhere there are piecharts showing how much the top five percent of Americans control of American household wealth as compared to the bottom fifty percent. I think the word obscene describes that chart.
I believe the so called American “minimum wage” when properly indexed for inflation since 1980 and the reign of Raygun Ronny works out to around $18.00 an hour. That is minimum wage. Not a midrange or upper range hourly rate.
In the part of the United States where I live finding any job that pays $10.00 an hour is pretty good fishing and finding any jobs that offer wages in the $15 – $20 per hour range is truly in range of wondrous.
In view of the real estate implosion which is not at bottom still by no means — where many Americans stand in spot where paying off mortgages before retiring is mythical or losing your home is very real — where access to affordable,sustainable healthcare is a myth — where the realm of 401 retirement plans is more grifter scheme than solid saving — it is truly a odd piece of pity party for the well off here on NYTs part.
The idea that we should care about the stupid families and their servant malefactors of great wealth is beyond stupid. My subscription to the NYT pays this clown. I suppose I should be grateful for the laugh, mean spirited though it is.
Probably also a few too many neighbors with close resemblance to the uglier lords.
And I see no evidence that the supper rich will start investing in productive assets.
Decider Bush tried to get the brush sector going by using his brush ranch as an example.
voodoo ya luv ??? it’s been sad watching the decline of the NYT over the past 25 years …
imo .. the old grey lady of the news has become little more than a 2nd rate gossip rag ….
Could the market be finally correcting the hedgefunds? Will the GOp respond by insisting the Government bail them out to?
After the French used the guillotine to rid themselves of this cancerous 1% how do they rate on health care and vacation time?
What strategy they just ask for a government bailout after they lose their money on gamboling with odds no sane gambler would accept.
You like reading science fiction huh:)
And school scores lets not forget that Bush alone I’m sure dropped the average a few points.
“Paul Sullivan writes about strategies that the wealthy use to manage their money and their overall well-being.”
Rough life.
That people even try to justify the distribution of wealth in this country is ludicrous. Wait… I mean fucking ludicrous.
Whenever I see mention of the rate of home foreclosures, or personal bankruptcies, or people doing without basic stuff like health insurance, education, or whatever, I have to wonder if, over the last thirty years, the increases in wealth in this country had been more equitable would so many people find themselves in the fucking needy situations they’re in? If jobs paid just a few dollars more an hour how much easier would the average life be?
I’m surprised Ben Stein did not write this tripe.
Isn’t this argument pure feudalism? We should be grateful for the gentry who let us live on their land….
Ungrateful s.o.b., aren’t ya? I love my overlords, I think.
o.k. – so we’ve never actually met….
Bless you once again, masaccio.
And having lived through my little tiny peephole into the dot.com boom and bust, it’s not the ‘investor’s’ who create the wealth. It’s the employees.
This whole nonsense about how we have to have really-super-duper-rich ‘investors’ or we will have no more economic innovation is a load of codswollop and worse. It might have been true when you had to buy steel, process it, transport it, and then have gangs use it to make railroads.
But today… many ‘entrepreneurs’ who are not investing in manufacturing processes have relatively low ‘investment’ requirements. It doesn’t take billions to build an iPhone app, or open a small restaurant or become an insurance agent. It takes money, but it does not require billions.
So first, the whole notion that if we don’t have mega-investors then we won’t have ‘innovation’ or ‘wealth creation’ is a toxic load of stupidity in its own right.
And second, the amounts of big, big funds around the world appear to be ripe opportunities for money laundering — which would NOT be possible with more modest, well-regulated, more transparent funds.
So third, as near as I can tell, the whole swindle-fest about how ‘innovation’ requires zillions of assets from uber-rich funders is toxic stupidity. What those big sums do is make it possible for drug lords and Russian oiligarchs to launder money; that is a completely separate phenomenon from creating new products that generate wealth.
The NYT writer has on a very outdated set of economic blinders.
Here’s hoping he clicks on Apple’s iPhone store and ponders who makes all those apps and how much it actually costs them to build them.
imo .. the old grey lady of the news has become little more than a 2nd rate gossip rag ….
I enjoyed watching Scott Ritter on Washington Journal this morning just rip today’s NYT’s story about Iran to shreds, stopping just a hair short of calling it an outright lie.
Funny, but I wonder if there is some connection. Americans seem convinced they might find themselves just as rich as Bill Gates, when in fact they have a better chance of hitting the lottery. Here in Lottery Nation, most folks have a hugely greater chance of bankrupting than of getting rich.
The French people seem to understand that they will have better lives if they work together. That may well come from the Revolution. Liberté, Fraternité, Egalité is part of the national psyche there.
Lerner’s categories of psychological warfare
Lerner divides psychological warfare operations into three categories:
White [Omissions + Emphasis]
Truthful and not strongly biased, where the source of information is acknowledged.
Grey [Omissions + Emphasis + Racial/Ethnic/Religious Bias]
Largely truthful, containing no information that can be proven wrong; the source may or may not be hidden.
Black [Commissions of falsification]
Intended to deceive the enemy.
Lerner points out that grey and black operations ultimately have a heavy cost, in that the target population will sooner or later recognize them as propaganda and discredit the source
______________________Wikipedia,Psychological Warfare
Grey lady,indeed.
the very notion that our economy relies on the wealthy is nothing but propaganda
wealth comes from production, some people are able to from another person’s production and that’s fine, but the wealth didn’t start before the product, product was produced and wealth followed
if these “near wealthy” want to regain some kind of footing they better start making certain those who produce product become healthy again
Stein got fired by the NYT for a conflict of interest involving that bait and switch “free credit report” scam. Note that I included a link…
One down how many more to go?
@31
Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.
- Abraham Lincoln
Capital is dead labor that, vampirelike, lives only by sucking living labor, and lives the more, the more labor it suck.
- Karl Marx
Why is it whenever I hear of trickle down I have visions of one of the grandkids with a leaky diaper?
A very well-formed comment.
The NY Times has it’s uses when soft and absorbent.
Trickle down–Pee on my leg and then tell me it’s raining…pennies from heaven.
I read the NYT before you wrote your piece. I don’t recall the mention of trickle down, which is the Regan supply side belief that giving it all to the rich results in their spending it quickly to the less rich.
What is being looked at is the question of what people under no economic stress are doing at this moment, when the jobless and those with medical bills are not spending very heavily.
I happen to believe that everyone is a collector of some sort and times like this are when the really really rare stuff comes to market. Paintings, coins, or cars, the unobtainable can now be bought. Unfortunately, this is trading existing objects among the wealthy and makes scarcely a ripple in the general economy.
nice, I guess I am in good company, though he said in a paragraph what it took me a few
Maybe we need a new economic theory one that says to much money whether its a bank or the super rich leads to too big to fail and government bailouts and should not be allowed to form.
Great quote, reminds me of Taibbi’s giant vampire squid line about Goldman Sachs.
it’s such a rediculous concept;
“giving people who have more money then they will ever spend more money so they spend it”
how utterly obsurd
Since the super rich are protected from Social Darwinistic pressures for example Bush and the many companies he ran into the ground maybe by allowing them to have so much money we increase the amount of cash that is unproductively invested?
zarf, you are right, Sullivan doesn’t use the term trickle-down, but if you look at the first quote in the post, you will see that what he is describing is the trickle-down theory. My point is that the idea is so thoroughly ingrained as a foundation for understanding the economy that people usually read right over it.
Well,here’s a little billet-doux to the Grey Lady from one of the “tricklers”,a Rockefeller,no less,from his own memoirs:
Here David Rockefeller admits media collusion… :
“We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the light of publicity during those years. But now the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supra-national sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries.”
Rockefeller writes on page 405 of his memoirs: “Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” (Activists Go Face to Face With Evil As Rockefeller Confronted)
Online Journal,Peter Chamberlain, December,07,”The Planned Collapse of America”.(Linky to follow)
The planned collapse of AmericaDec 7, 2007 … We are seeing the planned collapse of America, coming down the road we are on. What are we going to do to get our nation off that highway to …
http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/p…..2715.shtml – Cached – Similar
Frosty Wooldridge — Planned Collapse of AmericaAug 4, 2008 … In his noble piece, The Planned Collapse of America, Peter Chamberlin wrote, “The government has known for decades that America is on a …
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty386.htm – Cached – Similar
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty386.htm -
The link seems to be an anti immigrant site
The NYT has become, or perhaps always was, the organ of Wall Street with a pseudo-liberal face. It is almost impossible to credit what they print, even in the ‘business’ section with reporters still wet behind the ears like Andrew Ross Sorkin, who did not even know that unions still exist in large companies these days. Reaganist propaganda has so permeated education, and especially it seems business schools have bought the idea that capitalism has triumphed over all other possible forms of economy — and by extension rule. [But remember when we used to laugh at people who went to business schools, and thought business edcuation should not even be part of a real university?]
Mr. Sullivan is an apologist, writing for himself and his neighbors. What kind of jobs do he and his patrons create? A few highly-paid “brain” jobs and a host of ill-paid, no-career-path other jobs.
The rich once claimed superiority because they cared for and fed clans and villages – in exchange for the bulk of their labors, including demanding that they lay down their lives to protect him. At some point, paid wages came in lieu of service or grain or hogs. It has been much the same whether the lord and protector wore a toga or chain mail, Errol Flynn tights or Regency wigs, Victorian top hats or Alfred P. Sloan’s homburgs. Labor was expected to tip its forelock (they had no hats), but woe unto thee who wagged a finger and asked, “Please sir, may have more?”
Trickle down economics has long been shown to be a sham. So, it seems, is Mr. Sullivan and his paper.
The NY Times seems to be hiring a lot of idiots lately. The greedy ass rich got just what they deserved. Unfortunately we were the ones who had to bail them out. The good thing that came out of all of this was the outing of these frauds. They don’t and didn’t create anything. There were no Bill Gates’ in the financial industry. No innovators or entrepreneurs creating actual products that could be marketed and sold. Instead, we were witness to the real slacker generation whose only talent was the exploitation of our own lack of knowledge of just what the hell they were really up to. Their Wharton School diploma seems to have spawned the collapse of our economy. Their parents must be soooo proud! They’d be the only ones though.
Are comments permitted on this NYT piece of crap?
‘Cause if so, . . .
Next time I’ll be sure to screen any links.
I am certainly not anti immigrant-thankx for the info!
I AM familiar with the Online Journal link,because this is where i first came across the quote.
Huge amounts of tax cut money were invested in foreign countries where it is indeed trickling down at subsistence wages. Sounds like a plan the rich have for America.