Granted, NSA Advisor Ret. General James Jones used much more polite words (WaPo said he "chided" McChrystal) but the message was quite clear. Here’s Jones on Face the Nation today speaking about the McChrystal escalation request:
“It would be a mistake to underestimate the importance of other elements of the strategy…” At one point he described Gen. McChrystal’s recommendation as “his opinion” of “what he thinks his role within that strategy is.”
And if that was not direct enough, Jones went on to say:
“The president should be presented with options, not just one fait accompli,” he said.
Jones also appeared on CNN’s State of the Union and once again delivered his message to McChrystal:
"Ideally, it’s better for military advice to come up through the chain of command and I think that General McChrystal and the others in the chain of command will present the president with not just one option, which does, in fact, tend to have a … enforcing function, but a range of options that the president can consider," Jones said.
Jones was not the only one to push back on the McChrystal PR campaign this week and it seems that a number of informed voices seem to share my concern that McChrystal is “teetering towards insubordination.” Bernard Finel, senior fellow of the American Security Project has been involved in a rather vigorous debate on the issue with our own Attackerman who continues to sing the general’s praises and apparently thinks positions like mine are "hysterical." The decidedly non-hysterical Bruce Ackerman, Sterling Professor of Law and Political Science at Yale, made the case in the Washington Post.
Noting McChrystal’s response at his recent speech in London to a question about the approach being recommended by Vice President Biden, Ackerman notes:
When asked whether he would support it, he said, "The short answer is: No."
Ackerman continues:
As commanding general in Afghanistan, McChrystal has no business making such public pronouncements. Under law, he doesn’t have the right to attend the National Security Council as it decides our strategy. To the contrary, the Goldwater-Nichols Act of 1986 explicitly names the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as the National Security Council’s exclusive military adviser…
News of McChrystal’s position had been leaked to Bob Woodward and was published in The Post early last week. But it is one thing for some nameless Washington insider to engage in a characteristic power play; quite another for McChrystal to pressure the president in public to adopt his strategy. This is a plain violation of the principle of civilian control.
Ackerman’s essay goes on to make the dangers of the McChrystal PR campaign quite clear – it’s definitely worth a read in full.
Col. Pat Lang has some interesting comments on the Ackerman oped and goes on to say:
He was not invited to the White House to represent "the other side" in the present deliberations on Afghanistan because there is no "other side." Admiral Mullen,for good or ill, is the president/commander in chief’s military adviser. McChrystal is merely a subordinate, one of many.
McChrystal was summoned from England to a 25 minute meeting with the president aboard Air Force 1. He showed up in field uniform? He owns a set of Greens (Class A uniform). He wore it in London to the IISS meeting. The man does not seem to know his place.
It will be very interesting in the coming week to see whether McChrystal is beginning to learn his place now that Jones has spoken. If not, let’s hope President Obama makes sure the message was received.
In other Afghanistan news:
Along with the McChrystal comments, Jones made a very important comment on the strength of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan when he was on CNN:
He said that the maximum estimate of al Qaeda militants operating in Afghanistan was "less than 100 … No bases. No buildings to launch attacks on either us or our allies."
Since we are supposedly in Afghanistan to prevent terror attacks by Al Qaeda, this certainly sounds like good news – and news that should lead away from a new escalation.
There was also news of a “complex” fight in Nuristan province in which 8 US soldiers were killed. Col. Lang notes that this battle sounds disturbingly similar to last year’s battle at Wanat – and points to the new report by the Washington Post and CBS on that earlier episode.
It’s worth remembering that, as the New York Times noted today, the Wanat battle was likely triggered by a US airstrike:
Locals in the area were furious with Americans for the killing of local medical staff in an airstrike the week before, and commanders believe that for that reason, they were more hospitable to insurgents.
Yet civilians continue to die:
Kandahar – Six children and three women were killed during a NATO air raid in the province of Helmand, southern Afghanistan. The new accidental killing of civilians was reported by Daud Ahmadi, spokesperson of the provincial governor. The raid, which claimed the life of 4 armed Taliban, was ordered as a reply to an attack against a convoy of NATO and Afghan forces in a village located in the Nad Ali district.
SHARAN: US forces shot dead a schoolboy on his way home in the southeastern province of Paktika on Monday, the victim’s father said.
Ghulam Shah, father of the 13-year-old Zeeshan, told Pajhwok Afghan News his son was returning home on a bicycle from school… adding that his son also worked with a mechanic in the main Sharan bazaar during his free time.
A Sharan Civil Hospital employee, Najibullah, confirmed receiving Zeeshan’s bullet-riddled body. The teenager was hit in the head by foreign soldiers. The ISAF press office in the eastern zone also confirmed the incident and admitted it was a mistaken firing incident. http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/09/28/us-soldiers-gun-down-schoolboy-in-paktika.html
Finally, the British Ministry of Defense released information from June 23:
A young Afghan girl suffered fatal injuries after a box of public information leaflets, dropped from an RAF transport aircraft over Helmand province, landed on top of her.
Update: Jim White has more on the CNN Jones interview here.



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Phillip and Katherine Graham are smiling in their graves.
The purpose of Beltway journalism being to bring public
perception and opinion into line with those of the elite.
Hi Siun. I think you and I are on the same wavelength here. I just put up a diary with more from the CNN transcript. It sure sounded to me like John King was fishing for Jones to say McChrystal should be fired.
Thanks Jim … I’ll add a link as an update.
If only King would ask if McChrystal should be in the Hague.
McChrystal is nothing but trouble, the sooner Obama sees the light on that the better. No one can fire him more quickly than the President who put him in place, and insubordination at a MacArthur level is quite an excellent reason.
He needs to go spend time preparing his war crimes defense with his attorneys.
And I just did the same.
McChrystal may get some attention by the wider public thanks to this interview on the Daily Show with Jon Krakauer.
Thanks Jim!
Well, he’d have more time to appear there if he’s unemployed…
These insubordinate right-wing cocksuckers who think they can diss their commander-in-chief in public got their chops during the Clinton years, which is also when Christian fundamentalism took root in the military and began metastasizing. They’ve developed some weird concepts of “good order and discipline”, which sure as hell don’t sound like anything I ever heard of during my Air Force career in the 70s and 80s.
Obama and Gates need to have some heart-to-hearts with these people and make sure they get with the program or get new jobs, preferably out of uniform.
It’s clear that a lot of folks with actual military experience are the ones most disturbed by this pressure from McChrystal as you are. The comments at Pat Lang’s place are quite something along the same line.
Yes, I happened to catch that episode this week. Quite the interview.. No matter how many times one hears the story, it’s just devastating.
In Iraq, each increase in US casualties was cited by war hawks as
a sign that our strategery was working.
How many more attacks like last night’s 8 KIA before McChrystal and his allies
start using the same argument?
As with Rahm, Geithner, Summers, it was Obama who chose McChrystal. Not an auspicious record. As the school report cards used to say, ’shows poor judgement.’
I don’t understand if Petraeus is the military equivalent of sliced bread why isn’t he in charge of Afghanistan? At least there wouldn’t be widespread doubt about the commander’s competence.
I’d like to see more attention paid to Woodward, Colossal Suck-up Extraordinaire.
This sounds eerily like the military’s reasoning during VietNam. Anyone recall General Wm. Westmoreland?
Does Woodward, for instance, have WH access for an Obama At War book like he did under W? Was McChrystal’s document leaked to him for that effort? Did Woodward then decide it was newsworthy, so it got in the paper?
Very odd goings-on indeed.
Petraeus is now head of Central Command, which covers that area of the globe. So McChrystal reports to Petraeus.
Just sent the following to the White House.
Dear President Obama,
I spent the weekend thankful for what health I have and the glorious mountains around me. At one point I said out loud to myself.
At least the leaves are changing.
Please sir, wake up and lead. America needs a public option and to end its continuous waging of needless war.
Thank you,
ES
Petraeus is CENTCOM, which has operational control over Afghanistan.
The attention he got: “McChrystal was the point man” for the Tillman coverup and fabrication of the hero story as a distraction going into the 2004 reelection.
As an understatement: Not a good person.
Very good message!
Excellent
Well done, although the part about the leaves reminded me a little of Scooter’s letter to Judy. “g”
He likes this guy?
If I were going to make any bets, I’d put money on POTUS not being the person to fire McC. I’d bet that we have a new SecDef inside 3 months, though, and that the SecDef does it.
Because the problem isn’t just McC — it’s the dog not barking.
We haven’t heard jacksquat from the SecDef about this situation, now, have we?
Odds the General will be fired or lose his command soon? Odds he will leave if he doesn’t get the troops he wants?
Do you know anything about his background before war & West Point? Where he grew up, etc?
Excellent reporting, Siun. Sometimes you just need a round-up like this to put it all together. Hadn’t seen the Daily Show before.
McChrystal has got to be on the way out.
Can you imagine a chance to meet with President Obama and wearing your jeans and t-shirt? That’s basically what this fucker did.
Firing McChrystal would require that Obama assume an uncompromising position, something he appears incapable of doing. Ain’t gonna happen.
This has got to be why the administration is fighting for the ability to find out who’s leaking.
I had the same reaction. But it also incorporated snark that will fly right over the head of any aide who reads it. Priceless.
If that were the case, presumably Obama would cut Woodward off. Course, I wouldn’t trust Woodward with anything, and I doubt Obama does either. He double-crossed Bush/Cheney.
And it’s entirely related. If we were not spending all of this money on war, health care would be taken care of. Universal healthcare. That was what frustrated me so much this morning watching MTP. They only spoke about Obama’s decisions wrt Afghanistan, and left out how that money affects the rest of the country.
Exactly, and Petraeus should be reining McChrystal in. But in fact McChrystal is acting as a political general the same way Petraeus did in Iraq so this is unlikely to happen.
How better to say, “You’re not my President.”
so what?
mcchrystal will continue to make obama his b*tch, and the latter won’t do a damn thing about it.
OHHHHH. Really good point.
McChrystal is part of the Petraeus claque … he learned from a master it seems.
Here’s his wiki.
Oh, I’d use the sonovabeeyatch. If I needed to leak something, I’d leak to Woodward.
And then I’d burn him with a leak.
Mwah-hahahahahahah…
Yep. I wonder if Obama called on Petraeus to reign him in and then realized he had to do it himself if Petraeus responded with something to the effect that there was nothing wrong–which gave us the “talk” in Copenhagen.
Thanks…I didn’t think I saw anything about his early background…where he was born/grew up. Just curious.
Okay. That’s fair.
War or no.. we spend 2.2 trillion on health now. We should be reducing that to 1.6 trillion or less while incorporating some fine version of Tri care or medicare for all.
We don’t need more money.. we need less with a reshuffle.
Take the needless war money and spend it on real war.. war on creating green energy etc. with an Solar Army right here at home.
And it’s not just McChrystal. If you haven’t seen Eric Kleefeld on the pattern of republican undermining, here it is.
No. Should I? Is there something I need to know that may counter my stance that war – any war – is always wrong?
No, I was wondering about his earlier years and found nothing. It looked like Wiki started with West Point. I thought may be you had more information…
You’re right that Petraeus is McChrystal’s CO, but he’s kept such a low profile in his new job, compared to his front and center stage position when he was in charge in Iraq, that it’s understandable that bmull might have not been aware of that, if in fact that was the case. Which begs the question: why is the Centcom commander keeping himself off of the radar screen? Does he, perhaps, realize that Obama’s Afghanistan adventure is a ratfuck and is trying to avoid contamination? Might his profile re Iraq be similarly low because he knows that whereas his historical reputation will be based on the tactical success of the Surge he also knows that it probably didn’t change the strategic situation one whit? And that sooner or later the relative “peace” he wheedled and bribed into existence there is going to unravel?
Check that. Yes. His task force in Iraq was deeply implicated in torture.
Without Mc-Christ-al, who will fight God’s Holy War?
Siun, thanks for a good read and light on the subject you have at hand.
I fear a military sect, coupled with the industrial and financial sects, rotting our democracy from the inside out.
I fear the potential for a military ‘coup’, of any sorts, be it soft or hard.
As to Jim White’s obversations, and the other comments on same, the Christianization of our armed forces, from the Air Force thru all branches, is without a doubt a HUGE threat to democracy as we are ’sposed to have it.
Missing billions of dollars in cash, in arms, and incidents of dead military personnel following publicized military fuckup’s (can you say Minot Air Force Base/Nukes?) are all signs of too much power concentrated in too few hands, and a challenge to our democracy.
Pat Lang, whom you quote, has often spoken with detail about incidents with military personnel and weapons, and people who suddenly died. So have many others. Wish I had kept a list of these things, and their links over the years, perhaps someone else has.
Jeffrey Huber, former Commander in US NAVY, has also made great comments and provided great insights into these matters.
As have many others.
Our civilian CIC in this case, REALLY seems to be in jeopardy from a rouge military group(s) more so than anyone since JFK.
Healthcare is important, and so is our foreign policy, in healing and repairing our nation, and generating jobs at home. There’s a LOT at stake, and the multinationalist corporate feudalists along with the money making scam that is Milo MInderbender, Inc. in our MIC are fighting us here at home on both counts, to maintain their monopoly on it all.
Our democracy is on thin legs, indeed.
Thanks for your post, and thanks for some EXCELLENT comments, also, Pups.
Thanks Larue.
Minnesotachuck – many think Petraeus is eyeing a presidential run. McChrystal and Odierno are both his close associates and their pressure on Obama certainly plays well as a foundation for accusing Obama of tying their hands or losing wars etc.
Someone should send McChrystal a bio of Douglas McArthur. Unlike McChrystal, McArthur was a war hero (”I shall return”), wildly popular. And unlike McChrystal, McArthur actually had a track record as a winner. But he tried to defy a president (Harry Truman) and got canned.
McChrystal is a hell of a lot more disposable than McArthur was.
RevBev, I asked about the same thing back on Jim’s last thread on McChrystal:
I found the following excerpt here: [scroll down to bold title Path to Power]
snip
.
I learned that Stanley’s birth mother was Mary Gardner Bright who died sometime prior to 1979 when it appears that Herbert J. McChrystal married “Nedra”. Stanley was the 4th child of 6, only 1 girl who married a military man. One son, Herbert Jr. is a chaplain.
Afterwards I found more on the father, Major Gen’l Herbert McChrystal and his Vietnam service. Didn’t bookmark it; will do so if anyone is interested.
If you saw the photo of the President and McChrystal on Air Force One on Friday, you have to assume that Obama told him just that. Know your place you war mongering asshole! You were not elected president so, the final decision is not yours to make. And leaking information isn’t going to help your case. You may not have heard but, John McCain, your fellow warmonger LOST THE ELECTION. You might want to start thinking about your career after the decision is made. DICK!
Ignorant, close-minded, and histrionic also.
He looks like Niedermeyer from Animal House… and apparently thinks like Niedermeyer from Animal House…
The majority of McCh’s military career has been in special ops, and I have found, as is so often the case with those guys, that publicly available info about him has always been kept to a minimum. While we’re on the subject, I deeply respect the work and sacrifices of special ops both historically and in the Iraq and Afghan conflicts. However, McCh, and I refer specifically to his reputation from Camp Nama, seems to exhibit a disturbing, recent set of traits of the special ops soldier, namely, a self-image as uber phantom warrior (more GHOST RIDER than Sgt. York) who operates covertly BY RIGHT beyond regulations and unanswerable to conventional authorities. How ANYONE thought McCh, also given his record of rank dishonesty and dishonorable behavior in the Tilman disgrace, was the man to take the reins as we entered the “hearts and minds” portion of the counter-insurgency campaign is beyond me. Choosing him was so obviously a bad idea AND it is just one more imprudent, mind-numbing move made by this WH which, taken in total, is giving me a sick, fearful feeling about Obama’s abilities like nothing I have felt since election night 2000.
War loving, torture defending plus reality denying.
And pearl clutching. Also.
“General McChrystal, I knew General MacCarthur. General, you are no Douglas MacArthur.”
Oh, and by the way, he got shitcanned too.
I guess we all want to respect our Special Ops men but as we learn more and more about them, the designs of their superiors and the results of their work all over the world it becomes very difficult.
A man of McChrystal’s reputation (Camp Nama) is so opposite to what most of us see as needed in Afghanistan that it has caused me to puzzle about the real reason he was sent there…was it possibly to get rid of him by sending him on an impossible mission?
That line of thinking leads to Gates, as Rayne and others have commented above; and Gates the former Director of CIA, is silent. Gates under Reagan/Bush; Gates under Bush/Cheney…IMO he should not have been kept on when Obama became president. Next thought is: Why was he kept on? I’m dangerously close to concluding that Obama has found that he is the tail, not the dog.
RevBev, here is a bit more on McChrystal’s earlier life:
Snip>
more at link
Snip>
Father: Maj Gen Herbert Joseph McChrystal, JR (WWII,Korea,Vietnam); apparently the son or nephew of Herbert Joseph McChrystal SR (b) 1895 who may also have been a military man. There is also a HJM III, perhaps Stanley’s brother.
Saying that you are “hysterical” evades the real issue (even if you were).
Military men do not have the same freedom of speech as civilians do. It is illegal for commissioned officers and servicemen of all ranks to engage in public political action. Officers can recommend a course of action to their superior. But they cannot discuss the recommendations with third parties or criticize a superior’s decisions publicly.
So why is a General allowed to give policy interviews? More importantly, why is he willing to?
Officers used to take the civilian chain of command very seriously, sometimes to extremes. My grandfather was a retired colonel who refused to vote while he held a commission. He felt that, as an officer, his duty was to follow the orders of the people’s chosen commander-in-chief, not to tell the CinC what to do. The CinC, had to answer to the voters, not the troops.
This sounds like the 60 minutes interview that showed Ben Bernanke without a tie apparently to make his seem like a regular guy, which he surely is when he isn’t giving away trillions of dollars to unknown entities while ordinary Americans and small businesses can’t get loans.
I am sure when he is not attempting a soft coup for himself or his handler McChrystal is a heckuva guy.
If you fire him you feed his ego. Box him out. Let him rot in a different post and with a security clearance level where he can’t do any harm and keep an eye on him. Give him a new boss and new surroundings and if he sneezes in an offensive way – then you fire him. And clean house now because he probably isn’t on his own.
I actually do not fear a military coup as much as I would have if, say, Bush had suspended the elections. I have to think that the military still has lots of built-in safeguards to prevent meddling with civilian politics. They did when my brother was in service in the 1980s.
What we are seeing is rotten leadership in the top ranks of the military. The professional military leadership that was in place when Bush took power advised him professionally and resisted his madness in the one legal way open to them–they retired. But every organization has its yes men–like Ollie North–who suck up to politicians in hopes of jumping ahead of more competent and dutiful men in the chain of command. These are the types who flourished under Bush. They are the ones who were preapred to say that Rummy’s “transformation” was a good idea and that Iraq could be invaded and held with a few thousand troops in a couple of weeks. They were the ones who, when ordered to torture, went to find the nearest thing to torturers that the military had. They said and di what they did, not because they believed it was their duty but because they thought it was their best opportunity.
These are our political generals now, our new McClellans and Macarthurs. I fear that the danger is not a coup, but a willingness to play political games of all kinds, games that generals are never good at. Politicking detracts from the generals’ real business, the defense of the country and the wellfare of the troops. This is why we have a military leadership that is prepared to accept keeping the footsoldiers in the meatgrinder for another two decades and is willing to hide war criminals. This is why we have no war plan.
How do you fix this? Easy. You retire them or reassign them, depending on how annoyed you are. But, unfortunately, Obama has thus far lacked the backbone required.
Interesting that the shutter clicked (or whatever those pixels do) just when General McChrystal was looking like a psycho.