Jonathan Tasini presents a comprehensive portrait of breathtaking avarice and rampant criminality in his book "The Audacity of Greed: Free Markets, Corporate Thieves and the Looting of America."
Have you tired of stories about regular Americans whose lives have been destroyed by the financial collapse through no fault of their own? Are you bored looking at the ruin of the American economy from the bottom up? Would you like to read, instead, about the utterly corrupt system that has engorged the elite CEO class? Then this book is for you.
Mr Tasini presents a top-down view of the looting of America: how it was planned and executed in American boardrooms by American executives running American companies, midwifed by an American marketing slogan masquerading as an economic principle ("free market fundamentalism") and greased by a political system whose players are addicted to the huge sums of cash our media barons require to participate in our current Thunderdome of elected politics. Imagine The Robb Report, or one of CNBC’s early-millenial executive profiles, or Town & Country magazine — but inverted by a Lewis Carroll who makes no pretense about the missing value added to our society by these bloodsucking scammers and their purchased politicians, in-pocket regulators, and the fawning media elites who enabled them.
You will meet CEOs whose companies’ stock prices were exactly the same after a decade of their "service," but whose takeaway is magnificent: huge annual retirement payouts, access to the corporate jet, armed security for life, cushy club memberships, and back-dated or de-underwatered stock options that, if not illegally obtained, still fit within an absurd legal "framework" completely decoupled from performance. You will meet the politician who assured Wall Street, "We’re not going to be a bunch of crazy, anti-business liberals" just as the financial world was tilting against Americans with vanishing 401(k)s, absent pension plans, and barely affordable mortgages — the same politician who protected the hedge-fund managers’ 15% "carried interest" tax loophole. You will meet the elite Club members who serve as interlocking members of each others’ Boards of Directors, who chair compensation committees and rubber-stamp CEO decisions about how much they should be rewarded regardless of how poorly the company performs. You’ll read how the Obama economic team — Geithner, Rubin and Summers — was present at the creation of the current crisis they now claim to know how to clean up.
You will wonder, as I did, "How many homes are enough? How many millions of dollars are enough? How many hundreds of millions are enough? Is there ever enough for these rapacious world-destroyers?"
The amounts of money in this book are staggering. Not the trillions in aggregate lost from our economy (because these amounts are simply unimaginable); the hundreds of millions pocketed by the CEO pirates on the high capitalist sea. These buccaneers seemed to develop one scheme after another, not to assure the profitability and continued success of the firms they’d been hired to lead, but to pillage further millions from the corporate treasury for their own benefit: backdated stock options, huge secondary pension systems, monstrous deferred compensation programs, lavish expense accounts.
It’s hard to believe they had time left over for their day jobs while devising these personal enrichment schemes.
And while there are some actual criminals here — Lay, Skilling, Ebbers, Rigas, Winnick, Kozlowski — the impression I got is that these were simply the guys who got caught. Our regulators, lawmakers, and prosecutors were ill-equipped, asleep at the switch, or paid to look the other way. Lots and lots went past them and directly into the pockets of our new elite CEO class, never to be recovered.
Fortunately, after painting his picture of revolting excess, Jonathan Tasini makes seven concrete proposals to undo the entrenched corporate and political interests that currently rule our system. Let’s consider these during our chat here today, for their intent and effect as well as for their likelihood:
1. Immediately raise the minimum wage to $10 with additional increases over the next five years until it reaches $20.
2. Pass HR676, Medicare for All Now, to enact single payer health care in America.
3. Create a government-backed universal pension plan, eliminating fees and waste from American’s current retirement programs.
4. Repeal the Bush tax cuts, and raise the top income tax rate — at a minimum — to 40% and 45%, adding an additional 50% tax rate for Americans with taxable income of more than one million dollars. Tax investment income as ordinary income.
5. Pass the Employee Free Choice Act to rebalance the levels of power in the workplace.
6. End the legalized corruption of our electoral system with publicly-financed elections.
7. Impose a proportional pay cut on executives who cut workers’ pay. End the practice of allowing managers to loot a company by paying their workers less — and walking away with a part of the "savings."
If you are as fed up as I am with the inequities of our current economic model, these ideas seem optimistic. Do you think America can accomplish these seven goals? Do you think our current system will permit them? Do you think they go far enough?
{As usual during Book Salon, please be polite to our guest and take off-topic commentary to the previous FDL thread. Let’s keep our discussion to this superb book. Thanks!}
Related posts:
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Les Leopold, The Looting of America
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Barry Ritholtz – Bailout Nation: How Greed and Easy Money Corrupted Wall Street and Shook the World Economy
- Welcome Jonathan Tasini, Progressive Candidate For The U.S. Senate From New York
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Richard McCormack, Editor of Manufacturing a Better Future for America
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes James K. Galbraith – The Predator State: How Conservatives Abandoned the Free Market and Why Liberals Should Too





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Welcome to Firedoglake – so glad you could join us today!
I am here, FDL friends, and am honored to be here.
Welcome, Jonathan Tasini, and thanks for chatting with us today about your book. I’m intrigued to know about your process, first of all — the book is loaded with numbers (big ones!) and anecdotes about the thieves in our midst. How did you put together such a magnificent compendium of wrongdoing?
I wonder if this would help get things rolling. I pre-wrote this in case it was needed:
I would say this book has three themes. First, it talks about the way in which the greed has washed through corporate America—how we had a Robin Hood in reverse phenomena—with some specific examples. And you can’t, in the midst of being appalled, not be amused by a guy like Dennis Kozlowski who spends millions of dollars to threw a birthday party for his wife—the highlight of which is a replica of Michelangelo’s David spewing vodka from its penis. I mean, you can’t make up that bizarreness. The tiny problem was the party was paid for out of the corporate coffers.
Second, the bigger picture is the system that goes way beyond the individual greed of the CEOs of America—we’ve had an economic system that for the past 30 years—at a minimum—has funneled trillions of dollars of wealth from most Americans to a very few…mostly in a totally legal, if immoral way. And that phenomena happened, in large part, because of a bi-partisan embrace of the so-called “free market”—an embrace that is still underway today—and you can see that perhaps best in the health care debate. This analysis really reflects what I have felt and believed for 25 years, not something I just discovered as a new principle or moral belief.
Robert Rubin and his acolytes still have enormous influence. It’s quite amazing actually and totally punctures the myth in the business world that you are judged on your success—it’s entirely about cronyism and greed because if it was about performance, there should have been a wall-to-wall house cleaning, none of these folks should have shown up in the Administration with high-level jobs and, frankly, more of these people should be standing trial for what I believe was a massive fraud perpetuated on the country. I actually just met a banker recently who told me that he and his circle of friends are disgusted by the Goldman Sachs, Citigroup, Rubinite world and their brethren because it’s made a profession they loved radioactive.
Finally, the last part of the book talks about “what do we do now?” Because ultimately I’m an optimist—with that has happened I believe we are at a time in history where people are irate by the greed and, most important, ready for change.
ok let me answer this, Teddy.
Welcome to FDL this afternoon Jonathon.
I have not had a chance to read your book but based on Teddy’s request, let me ask this, which of your seven options do you see having a chance to come to fruition in my lifetime (I’m 57)? In your lifetime?
The simple answer is that this book is, in many ways, pulling together things I’ve thought about, written about and advocated for, for a very long time. So, a lot of this was at my fingertips–I just had to pull it together. And I really did strive to write a book that was not too big so people could get through it.
Well, since, as a Jew, we always wish for life until 120, then, I think we can do it all!!! But, seriously, I’d say ultimately I’m an optimist—-with what has happened I believe we are at a time in history where people are irate by the greed and, most important, ready for change.
Of course, we need to have a major upheaval of the political system–and I feel the anger is so great out there that we can get there…tho, yes, it has the potential to go the other way.
It is an extremely readable book, accessible and fun (if sometimes grim too). Do you think that there’s been any moderating among the looters? I mean, Blankfein (sp? GSachs CEO) warns employees not to consume conspicuously, but really, what’s the point for them, then, if they can’t show off their wealth to their buddies?
Do you see any evidence that anything but the still-lower-than-Ike tax rates you propose will make the oligarchs among us behave?
First, thank you for your work for freelance writers. I have friends who do this and it was important.
To quote Trading Places, “If you want to hurt rich people you take away their money.”
Remember how freaked out Hannity and the right got when there was a bus tour of the homes of the AIG rich?
Economic violence is their real fear, and they will enlist an army of private lobbyists and lawyers to protect them.
My question is, “Does anyone have the heart and economic support to fight them in this way?”
Who will fund an “economic” swat team to make arrests, close loopholes in laws, and address the media and right wing attitudes?
I would love to be part of this kind of team. Who’s hiring for this? Will anyone create “The New Untouchables”? I fear that I don’t have the right skills for the team but I would love to follow their exploits. (It could be TV show, ‘Demise of the Rich and Madoffs”
Existing organizations that might do this have been defunded and defanged. SEC has hundreds of empty spots. I seem to remember that the IRS disbanded their high-end team of forensic accountants. Elizabeth Warren’s group is being hamstrung in its creations.
Actually, many of them don’t. Their businesses and business units are run on auto-pilot by aides, mid-level managers, staff and a legion of sales types who suss out that nobody’s really watching the store. That leads to excess sales, profits, problems, accountants’ migraines, staff overtime, and the washing of laundry in private.
That’s all despite these same executives’ endless Gregorian refrain (with modern harmony hailing from the Special Forces Compensation Command) that boards must lavish them with compensation because their skills are unique and their contributions to “success” are indispensable. Ha, ha, ha, ha.
The upheaval, or Uprising (as another author I hosted here terms it) seems underway. Will both wings see a commonality, do you think, and ever unite under a banner of anti-wealth, anti-privilege, anti-establishment? Grayson’s Fed-audit bill has attracted some very strange bedfellows, for instance.
Grim? You didn’t like the “Vodka and Penises” chapter?” On the one hand, you are right, there is still a firm hand on the “free market” tiller. The Financial Times just had a story this past week reporting that the Federal Reserve Board says that banks, subject to “review”, should be able to choose how to meet the test that compensation schemes should reward performance. So, let me get this straight—the Fed and the banks, who collectively did nothing while the financial bubble was growing, and in fact, in the case of the Fed (read: Alan Greenspan, along with Robert Rubin) effectively encouraged the bubble, arguing that more leverage was good…they are now going to say we will create the rules and we will oversee them. And the American people should say: hell, no. And as an aside, the financial “wizards” (I hope the sarcasm comes across) also are launching a full court attack on the proposed Consumer Financial Protection Agency, which is one of the things the Administration is trying to get going which deserves our support.
So, I would say that we have a lot of organizing to do. But, there is fertile ground there–more than I’ve seen in a long time.
Or Mark Warner warning Goldman about the “optics” of their bonuses
The book exposes this compensation committee scam quite artfully — these guys are hand-picked and looking out for one another constantly.
Welcome, Jonathan — it’s overwhelming. Where do we start? If you could make one change, anything, that would start to unravel the looting, what would it be? Or are there so many things that have to be fixed all at once before it makes a difference?
Thanks–it was a great honor to be involved in the freelance writers efforts…a part of my 25-year love and commitment to the labor movement (with all its warts!!!).
I would say the “economic swat teams” need to be formed in the labor movement, at the political level, bloggers etc…we have to change the basic rules under which the economy operates.
WE ALL KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.
So, the Seven Proposals: in what order? I can’t see anything like the other six accomplished without public funding of elections, but how will we ever get current incumbents off their junk? They are addicted to the money, and know where to go to get it.
I mean, can you see Chuck Schumer going cold-turkey? (He’s the politician I quoted in my intro, by the way). Where’s the methadone clinic for the DSCC?
Good day, Jonathan, thank you for visiting with us.
The age of the Divine Right of Money must, finally, be recognized for what it is.
That democratic traditions were the vehicle by which the destructive mythologies of ”free enterprise” and capitalism were conflated with democracy is a case study in the most cynical of hypocritical manipulations and the deliberate and callous belittling of the human spirit; all disguised and dressed-up as proof of the quality of America’s special brand of ”exceptionalism”.
DW
This is an important point that relates to my earlier comment about compensation for bankers. They make the argument, “well, that’s what the market requires that we pay people because over there at the other firm good people are getting paid X”…well, who decides those numbers? They do. It has nothing to do with a “free market”–that’s the irony of it. It’s entirely a closed system with very tight rules. We just are not part of that rule-making system.
Well, of course, my bias is to have a strong labor movement. I want to point out that the looting I discuss is a broad looting of 30 years–people were not paid a fair wage based on productivity. And I don’t see any other force that can change that but the labor movement.
In fact, you know what? I’d say, to hell with all the talk about CEO pay caps, if in return you give me 35 percent labor representation in the private sector. That would be far better path to a fair society.
Do you think any of this “shareholder reform” is anything other than window-dressing? I’m very dubious that executives are giving up any power over their compensation, despite Barney Frank’s enthusiasm for corporate democracy.
Well, I am with you about ridding the electoral process of money–we’ve talked about this for years. I would say that, if we are not going to win that via legal challenges, we just have to remake the Democratic Party (I am working under the assumption that it’s the easier of the two party-focused paths).
nice point.
As you both know, the Comp. Committee has a legion of supporters, in-house and outhouse SEC and labor lawyers, inside and outside HR specialists, compensation specialists, accountants and the like who jack it up and find endlessly creative ways to avoid disclosing it properly – either to company team members or outside investors.
Tax departments have become profit centers rather than cost and compliance experts. I’ve seen compensation for departing int’l executives wire transferred to an executive while in mid-air, transcontinental flight – to justify the claim that the income isn’t subject to US or home country jurisdiction.
The CEO then claims with a straight face that his company “complies with all laws in the jurisdictions in which it does business”, and the general counsel claims that internal controls are adequate enough to benefit from what were once federal sentencing guidelines. It’s enough to make one want to volunteer for CREW and the ACLU.
I think we agree. But, I also like to see gray in life. The labor movement does a lot of work on shareholder efforts–in fact, I think the pressure via shareholders was the main reason Ken Lewis is on his way out of Bank of America. But, again, ultimately, I think the strongest check on corporate power is a very powerful labor movement.
Well said.
Jonathan, you don’t mention corporate personhood or “speech=money” in your Seven Proposals. Do you think there will be any movement towards a Constitutional Amendment in this regard? I can’t imagine we can rely on the Roberts Court to end its corporate lovefest, although Justice Sotomayor made some intriguing remarks (perhaps during the Citizens United oral arguments?)
welcome jonathan! What is the malady or phobia called when you reach a tipping point and get nauseous at hearing or reading so many big numbers with so many, many zeroes after the first digit? and then you look at your own plummeting checking account balance … and you have to lie down for a while?
Ralph Nader … I’m not sure if he is kidding … but claims he is writing a fiction book about benign oligarchs (oxymoron?), the main char. based on Warren Buffet. But I was thinking, why can’t we find ONE empathetic one and call him the TSAR of Empathy and set up a vacuum account for any bonus babies to contribute money to taxpayers into.
I remember when I was told my 401K was going to be “speculative” suddenly. That was long ago, but I got a very creepy, jerked around feeling, like “who got to make that decision”?
Which tactics do you think these people are most afraid of and how can we help ensure they are successful?
A friend has turned over to the SEC fraud he discovered at a company. The SEC did nothing because it wasn’t big enough for their staff to justify the investigation. For his efforts he ended up being sued. He was the one who told me to stay away from trying to bring anyone to economic justice.
P.S. I’ve been doing my own work on the “Economic Swat teams” (The Spocko Squad, A Quinn Martin Production — In Color)
I and a handful of bloggers cost KSFO radio 28 advertisers in 2007 and millions in revenue by convincing advertisers that talk radio is bad for their brand. This year I cost them United Airlines, BAJobs, LifetimeTV and Beach Blanket Babylon. This tactic has been nationalized with Glenn Beck losing 62 advertisers and you are seeing the havoc his backlash is causing)
I also thought public pension plans were asserting dominance here, but Arnold seems to have somewhat de-fanged CalPERS, in an example other GOP governors are sure to follow. Board members are much more conservative and corporate-friendly, and regulations have been put in place to make the pension plan less aggressive.
I am entirely on-board on the idea of ending the corporate personhood status. It’s something I have written about and thought about a lot–with the help of people who have worked in this area for some time. I think it might be a tough slog to get a Constitutional amendment passed–BUT it would be a terrific teaching and organizing tool.
Capitalism?
Interesting work, spocko.
Look, I think we all know the problem–it’s an economic system that has truly been corrosive to many, many Americans. The question is: what do we do about it? I’m not a “only this will work” type person: I believe in labor organizing, I think we need to continue to build independent media like FDL, we have to be bold about our political choices and candidates,
ahhhhhh. thanks.
Holy Crap! I suppose you could admire their creative strategy the same way you admire a bank robbery, but it’s not a victimless crime. This is fraud and we are all paying the price.
@35
I heard Alan Grayson last night on Chris Matthews say that his parents were both union members-and that’s one of the reasons the health care reform was so personal for him,due to extensive illness as a child.
Any chance we can team up Trumka and Grayson?
I want to add something about 401ks and why I think what has happened there offers an ENORMOUS opportunity. So, junkies like us care about politics and are engaged. Lots of people are not like us. But, a vast number of people were sold the following line: “forget about the old pension system [in other words, real pensions–that’s my editorializing], now, thanks to the wonder of the stock market and the “free market”, your retirement will be taken care of thanks to this thing called a 401K”
and now poof–that’s gone overnight. All those millions of people who now are in a panic about retirement are ripe for a conversation about what we want and need to have as a decent society.
Jonathan! Thanks so much for being here. You’ve been so great on the health care front.
I love the idea of “economic swat teams.”
With regard to your Proposal #2 (HR676) do you think America will get a second bite at the health care apple this generation? Certainly something is bound to pass, whether Public Option or a simple insurance company bailout, this year. After that, can we come back around to repair it, do you think?
Hi, Jane–and may I bow down digitally to you and the FDL accountability teams…you are actually the model for the “economic swat teams”.
I was thinking about who is on our side. As I’m sitting here wearing my “Working Class Blogger” t-shirt I got at Yearly Kos 2007 I wonder who else to enlist. Warren Buffet suggested to Arnold to get rid of Prop 13. Bill Gates dad works to keep the estate tax which several rich families have been working to repeal.
Do we have any allies in the media? In law enforcement? Tax law?
Once people rally post shock and awe stage. Hitting bottom is sobering. And presuming those on high totem, authoritarian figures, were handling our welfare on the lower regions of the food chain was an illusion.
I think recognizing lobby-bribed Dem party, a party that pushed for deregulation under Clinton, that was just was willing to outsource jobs as the Repubs was a shocker. Ralph N. was right about the corporate cronyism of BOTH parties. Did not know how deep it went.
I thought this wasn’t going to be on the test!
I was happy to have Robert Reich on “our side” but then I read about his Field of Dreams speech in this book. Apparently, he wants to have his cake and have it too, on Free Trade. Jonathan’s dissection of Reich’s glass analogy was discouraging.
Well, this is a great question. I have been a single-payer advocate for a very long time and the scandal which needs to be documented more is how single-payer was simply shoved aside–I mean, give me a break, the CBO never even scored it. And this wasn’t just a moral issue–it’s an economic issue. Every time I have to debate the free-market advocates on CNBc, they attack the UAW for the auto industry’s problems–but they can’t really reply when I point out that UAW members could work FOR FREE and the auto industry would still be collapsing because of health care costs, which it would not have had if we had had a “Medicare for All” system 10 years ago.
Having said that, I was also on-board–and am still on-board–the great effort to pass a strong public option. Part of me still believes that the cowards–and, yes, that’s what they are–who are doing the insurance industry’s bidding will simply not be able to pull this off because the contradictions.
But, to answer your question, I do believe that a crappy reform will end up giving us another shot at it.
Yesterday I heard some cable gasbag rambling on about how Max Baucus did so well, listening to everyone and hearing everything all the stakeholders had to say. No mention, of course, of the Single Payer advocates thrown out and arrested — or the White House meeting where none were permitted until Conyers’ allies made a big stink.
It is important to shoot down the meme that this debate was “wide-ranging and complete” wherever it appears, no matter the result.
The reason I brought up Reich was this. While I am a Democrat, I am first, and foremost, a movement person who wants REAL change. And, in that vein, I believe we have to hold everyone accountable for the nonsense they spew (and FDL is a great tribune for that). So, when Reich, who was an advocate of NAFTA–one of the great disaster of the the past 30 years–tells people that if they just get educated then all will be well, well, it’s nonsense. The fundamental problem today is not that people are stupid or uneducated–and I am all for going to college. It is that we have an economy–globally–that is based on one thing and one thing only: THE CORPORATE PURSUIT OF THE LOWEST WAGE POSSIBLE. And Reich is simply not telling the truth when he tells people to get educated and you will be saved. And I believe he, and other liberals, do so because they accept the basic formulation of the so-called “free market”, “Competitiveness” and the like.
Agreed.
What I always find ridiculous about “free market” types is how they overlook or assume all the lies in their story. The talk radio industry that talks about the “market place of ideas” is a monopoly.
I’ve worked with enough VPs of of sales and marketing and CEOs to know they really don’t want a level playing field. They love to say stuff like, “All I want is and unfair advantage.”
Let me quickly add: my observation about the economy is not at all about being “anti-business”, which is usually where the political elites try to push the debate to. It’s about having a different set of rules. The economy, I often like to say when I lecture about this, is not a natural phenomena like the sun rising and setting. It is based on rules, not marketing phrases like “free trade”. And we have to see very clearly what the rules are and demand that they be changed.
Yes, and to go back to the point I made earlier: I believe there is a real teachable moment here because of the most recent economic panic. And this is where I feel we have to push very, very hard–and, particularly, as it relates to party politics, we need to encourage those Democrats in the Congress who have the courage to try to be honest about the rules of the game.
“Get yourself educated” is particularly scary advice for those facing huge debt and scant employment prospects at the end, especially when society isn’t holding up our end of the bargain creating worthwhile jobs. Well-educated young people with broken dreams, huge debt, families to support, and no job prospects are not the basis of a stable society.
Why isn’t our government directly creating new jobs like FDR and Harold Ickes did with the CCC and other programs? All this pass-through privatization makes me wonder if a lot of paving contractors are getting rich while folks get temporary flag-holding and asphalt-chucking jobs.
To Jonathan @ 39
Hopefully we, collectively, will be able to articulate ”visions” of sufficiently compelling humanity and sustainability to allow the inculcated fears and taught inhibitions which are designed to make the average person feel small, isolated, and ineffective, to be overcome with reason, tolerance, and understanding.
The relative paucity of such coherent and well-articulated visions, given the nature of our collective plight and the extraordinary talent seen here, at FDL, for example, continues to perplex.
Yet, the ”atmosphere” seems ripe, if not over-ripe, for a genuine discussion about the nature of the direction our society truly wishes to take. It would be better to make certain choices, as an informed society, sooner, while we may have more ”options”, than later, when events are well beyond any pretense of ”control”, particularly environmentally, when choices will be few and energized demagogues will have had sway …
DW
RE “rules” of business, do you see “a basic right of guaranteed employment” as possible in this society? I know this government wouldn’t do it now, but things’ll get worse.
Ok, went to get a little wine (you know, feet up, computer on my lap…)…let me read your thoughts :):)
Watching Alan Greenspan unwind his Natural Economics philosophy has been fascinating: it’s nice that an octogenarian can still learn, even after ruining the world economy for the rest of us.
Do you think his endorsement of the Consumer Protection Agency for investors will help its chances or hurt it? I can’t imagine anyone taking his advice ever again, but then look at the success warmongering pundits still have in DeeCee!
Thanks for being here.
Do you really believe that working within the system we have will change anything. I am sort of playing devil’s advocate but I see no way to change this without going outside of the system.
But one thing would change what we have now, and that would be to make all campaigning free, tax us for it, all campaigns shortened, zero campaign contributions.
Then people, like some here, who actually have some wisdom of forethought could run for elective office.
Other than that there are maybe 5% of congress men and woman who even will listen the rest should be kicked to the curb.
I will always stand by the option to come at ‘em from outside of the system, I am also aware that that is somewhat of a pipe dream but it is what I think.
Ken Burns on C Rose this week was talking about Bedford Falls-es changing to Pottersvilles, and how we must try to fight that slippery slope.
Look at the denial with the climate crisis. Minimization of it by the sane, and total denunciation of the idea of climate change by the wingnuts.
It is the over-ripeness that you describe so well which makes me frightened, though. Over-ripeness seems a fertile place for demagoguery, as we as are seeing. It could tip either way; let’s hope concern and compassion win.
So, we should be doing that. And one of the things that is an absolute shame is the way DEMOCRATS–the party of FDR–demonize government. Rolled up in the disappointing positions and rhetoric of the health care debate is the meme about not wanting government to, god forbid, interfere with the “free market”. I guess that is only the case until you crater the economy and need our tax dollars to bail banks out.
And, in many ways, that’s our challenge–to recapture the soul of the party to make it be willing to make a persuasive, logical case for the good in government.
Jane likes the phrase I used above, “economic swat teams” (I think the Spocko Squad has a better ring, but that’s just my ego talking) but phrases like that have power. I remember years ago someone described THE CORPORATE PURSUIT OF THE LOWEST WAGE POSSIBLE as “Capital chasing cheap labor around the globe”. Since then I use that term to describe that problem.
I also was sooo pissed about NAFTA. I remember that Dennis Kucinich doing some research on this and finding out that as President he could simply end NAFTA with one step. It would be nice if he could advise our current President on that step!
Sometimes I talk about how unfair I think the lottery jackpots are. I ask why do they have to be so gargantuan and go to one or two people (you know someone else is making money off of it). Why can’t 35 people win 1 million each, and not one person win 35 million. And it is amazing how people get angry at me, like I just tried to steal the 34 million they are momentarily about to win.
There are hidden layers of erosion we are not even aware of, right? Like our pay plateaued, our hours dip, because that money is going to health care extortion for employees. But we don’t think it through that far.
And it is cheaper to build a car in Canada than in US because employers have to pay out to health care for employees, right?
But the buzzword “socialism” is Pavlovian with the right, and the left Dems have swallowed the corporate kool-aid and already pocketed all that money. So now it is kinda kabuki, let us show you how hard we are trying for reform when we all know Congress and Pres working for corporate pirates not common good, many of them.
Well, it should be there. Whenever people ask me “is it possible?”, I always say, well, it’s not going to be easy to get there but if it’s worth fighting for…Medicare wasn’t won in the first round.
What we need is a clear vision of where we want to go and, then, start working at it.
Look, think about the positive side: while it is true that we have a long way to go and sometimes it’s not often easy to see the finish line, without our organizing over many years over many issues the country would be in far worse shape. And we have made some–admittedly, sometimes tiny–steps to a more progressive world. I’m going to guess that a lot of people have issues with the president’s agenda and some of his positions–but, WE elected him.
The oligarchs’ money seems to buy them signs that scream “Nothing to See Here — Please Move Along.” Congress is particularly eager to resume normal activity.
It hit me like a ton of bricks when someone explained not to long ago that there was only ONE reason Congresscritters sought seats on the Banking Committees: getting bankers’ political contributions. Regulation and oversight is an annoying afterthought they’d rather not attend to, because it interferes with the Prime Directive: accumulating cash.
We can only solve this if we make campaigns publicly funded; only a constitutional amendment decoupling speech from money will let that plan survive the Roberts Court.
Or is there a legal challenge you think Roberts et al. would permit?
Jonathan, you write here about remaking the Democratic party.
Is that realistic?
Aren’t the Dems as corrupted by corporate money as Repubs?
yer exactly right, Jonathan — Muste couldn’t a’said it better…
I thank you for all of this conversation I’m reading. (and I’m getting your book!)
I think a decent society provides/guarantees food, shelter, health care, education and employment.
That’s what I want for my grandkids and everybody else’s…
Yes, but who will really be able to HAVE that discussion? We know that the right wing will shout it down when we try. Sigh.
Hi, Maddy (the name of my absolutely fabulous niece)…well, again, this is the gray–I am assuming you mean the “political party system”…on a day-to-day basis, it does matter to real people that we fight within the system (just tick off the many ways in which we would be so much worse off under a President McCain–like executive office positions). So, I am not willing to just say forget the system because our pressure, our activism, I think really saves lives and makes a difference.
But, I think we can also say: we have to create the movement out there to change things in a more fundamental way.
But, that’s just me–I always tried to be able to operate in a world which sometimes forces me to hold what might seem two contradictory ideas at the same time.
A young man seeking the Presidency mentioned in 2008 that NAFTA would be reopened, or revisited, or renegotiated. Whatever happened to him, junior Senator from Illinois, odd name?
Yes, without naming names right now :):)…money has corrupted the Democrats in many ways as well. I guess what I would say is that more of them are pained by that…so there is more room to move there. But, look, it’s pretty obvious the influence of corporate money is perverting the system.
You will really like this book, I predict. The optimism shines right through.
I am really not an expert at the legal challenge aspect to Buckley v Valeo so I don’t want to make a guess at that.
Nobody has the courage to speak,junkies for money, they don’t realize that their obsessive need for re-election clouds their ability to do anything constructive, if they even cared in the first place, they have gotten too used to running with the fat cats now that they have abandoned labor as their source of revenue, i.e. we have just become data points and commodities bought and sold, without a whit of care.
Failed Optimist.
+1 on NAFTA
Sigh. Ok, so I will say that this isn’t surprising to me. You can read this:
http://www.workinglife.org/blo…..nt_id=7852
as the kids say: LOL
Thanks
Great reading here – and just ordered your book at my library. Cant wait!!
Thanks…I hope you enjoy it.
thanks!
Jonathan, with regard to Proposal #4 (Get Real About Taxes) do you think many peoples’ objections to higher tax rates are purely aspirational? In other words, I (or my children or grandchildren) might someday be subject to these higher taxes on “achievers?” How do we sell rational tax rates on higher incomes to citizens whose closest contact to the affected taxpayers is working on their estates, fixing their cars, making their beds in hotels, and serving them cocktails in first class?
The hatred of taxes is learned; how can we undo that for people who will benefit by a more progressively shared burden?
Are you thinking of Barry Soetoro? I heard he had to pull out of the race because he wasn’t a natural born citizen. Oh, and they found out using the science of word counts that an unrepentant terrorist actually authored his books. True story! I heard it on the radio, read it in WorldNetDaily and it was all over Drudge, where you been?
Jonathan. I like what I am reading.
Capitalism is the sacred cow here in America which worships at the alter of wealth and the protection of it. Capitalism will not do a thing for the workers.
So it needs to be severely regulated by taxing wealth and income, removing tax shelters and so forth. If this does not take place nothing changes. Workers are effectively plantation slaves.
We need to either abandon the capitalism we have which the guys on Wall Street realize puts them out of a cushy job and makes them just reasonably high wage earners or dump it all together.
Money buys law here and it’s not likely to change as long as legal bribery exists.
whew. Taxes. That is a big challenge. It goes hand-in-hand with the attack on government, obviously. I always try to talk about this, George Lakoff-like (not just because he has a blurb on my book LOL), as dues we pay just like we pay to belong to a club or organization–we need dues to get the things we want. I think, again, we have a moment here–unfortunately, the bankers rushed in first and got their huge bailout so people who might be open to the conversation, think that tax dollars are going to wealthy bankers. But, I think we have a teachable moment–I am not satisfied that we are doing a good job, though.
**mesmerized by flashing red siren**
Yes, I agree. I just feel an urgency right now to really organize us on a much wider scale, but it feels like climbing K2 without oxygen. Our power is immense but dispersed, maybe just the sheer circumstance of finacial disaster will help wake people up to what is being done to them.
My hat is tipped in respect for what you do, in the face of the giant that fights us at every turn.
Also the idea of nest eggs and wealth creation and making money work for you is inherently wrong.
This enables the money changers to develop schemes to make money with money not make new products that people need.
The money business is doing nothing for society any more. We used to believe that banks fueled growth of industry, but all they do now is look for leverage and riask aversion, CDS and ways to make money with money. Investing in industry or start up ideas is so 19th century.
Yes. And I think we can win the race in the primary. I think people know the problems we face. I think the moment is here to have a much deeper conversation with people–and I think we need people to be in the Congress whose principles are clear, are based on a life-time of experience and action and who people know they can trust to be honest. My model is Paul Wellstone, whose votes reflected his principles–he didn’t have to search for them to know he had to vote against the Iraq War and, more generally, he would never have had to say, well, I was this way two years ago but now I’m an entirely different person. I think people are fed up with that.
http://jonathantasini.com/
We need to suit up in the class war that’s been waged since the eighties — the 1880s. And we need to enlist natural allies: working people, poor people, middle class people.
Do you think “stunts” like the mansion bus tours and the Anthem HQ crime-scene demonstrations move people? They scare the upper-uppers, and their media allies, but are regular folks who don’t usually pay attention moved to join us?
Just courious – have you seen Moore’s Love Story yet?
It seems the manipulation trap of “mystification” was played on us by the economist elite. Mr. Granspan says “oops” i guess I was wrong there at the end after enjoying long term gurushiop. The TARP was steamrolled through fast. Trust us. We understand it. And Obama has the people who caused the meltdown fixing the country, since they understood “it” enough to break it?
Maddy: but look at what the FDL community, with Jane’s dogged leadership (and my pal nyceve’s activism), has done–there are a whole bunch of people (yes, not enough) in Congress who haven’t caved because of the campaign to keep them honest. That’s a big deal. Will it be decisive? We don’t know. But, it is important.
Not yet. But planning to.
I live in NYC. Look forward to helping you.
The fall of capitalism will come from a collapse of the casino similar to what happened a year ago. They tossed money at wall street so they would go back to the crap tables and play. This did nothing for main street so the crash is still out there and coming soon.
If labor, ie all workers were organized enough to shut it down they would have muscle and could demand the system respond and change. But the fascists forces might step up and take us really far to the right.
The net is the organizing force that might get people together along with new media connectivity. As people become more and more desparate with nothing left to lose they will look for more radical solutions that letter writing and voting for slacker lying candidates.
We need direct action NOW. Or let it fall down and start again which is a much quicker and better solution.
Out society is like an old operating system with so many bugs it’s time to get a new one.
Terrific. Please email me at jtasini@economicfuturegroup.com
The problems in our system started well before the financial collapse! The shipping of jobs overseas go back to before the 1990s and the *mass* layoffs started at least as much as 15 years ago.
My father worked hard at Honeywell for 26 years before his department was finally eliminated.
He made a parallel move (which is not easy for a computer technician who started back in the late 1960s) to work for UL in Melville, NY. They did the same thing there. The department over which he was the manager was eliminated and he was laid off at the age of 59.5.
My sister, too, has been affected. She didn’t get laid off from her job with Vytra. But over the last three years Human Resources has been downsized and she is now doing the work of 3 people!
Sorry to rant, but I am writing about people who work very hard and do not deserve what these executives are doing to improve the bottom line and so get bigger and bigger bonuses!
By the way, I thought I would throw in here that we have a Facebook page for the book:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/…..150?ref=mf
in case you’d like to join.
Employee Free Choice Act (Proposal #5) may be resting, or it may have died. Is it being held hostage to health care reform, do you think? Are union leaders being told that they must back the White House’s backroom deals in order to rescue EFCA?
Or is this Congress simply unable to muster the votes?
okeedokee.
Like this bit here about Schumer:
Have you watched the TV show Leverage? The scenerios are “ripped from the headlines” and they show a group of people who are getting back at the companies using cons, hacking, grifting, muscle and brains.
One of their big targets is insurance companies. It is emotionally satisfying to watch the fictional successes but also chilling to know that the scenarios they use are based on real life, and in real life people DON’T have an elite team to help them fight back.
Burn Notice is another show, only that is about using spy skills to help the little guy against thugs and crooks. That is a pent up desire for some of these corporate bullies and greed heads to “get their comeuppance”.
I live in California and when I read about another Enron executive going to jail I remember thinking, “That’s great, but can I have my money back?”
Thank you! We love Facebook.
The question is how many boots can we take on your necks until we strike back. The economy is in the tank, milllions are in foreclosure, more are underwater and in debt till they die, perhaps 20% have no job, tens of millions can’t survive on the wages they are paid.
We’ve settled into a third world country. They drugged the consumer to buy buy buy and got him to use credit turning him into a debtor for life. They scared everyone that they must have a good credit rating. They allowed banks to charge usury rates and the people took it.
Now as the health care debate rages we are seeing people dying and going broke for lack of care while corporation owner get hideously rich.
It’s gonna come to a head and they are gonna be blind sided.
The story of you and your family is very common, unfortunately.
I would not say that they the CEOS are trying to improve the bottom line. They may be trying to inflate the stock price so their stock options are worth more. But, if the bottom line was improved, jobs might be saved–as opposed to the destruction many CEOs have created by trying to over-leverage, make stupid deals, pass around bad paper–all to increase their personal wealth. We need some indictments.
“And can we have our Democratic governor back, too?”
Is Obama making deals for health care reform in exchange for Afghan militarism do you think? Scary horse trading going on among the group-thinkers.
People will begin to say FU to the banks. What do you need their effin credit rating for? No one is giving credit anyway? Live cash and use a debit card.
Well, let’s be clear–EFCA, as it was conceived, is dead. It was called the “card check” bill–”card check” is dead and there was no fight to preserve that, in my opinion, by the Democratic Party. That’s done. The only question is does some sort of labor law reform get through that tries to slightly right the imbalance that exists. I’m not sure.
I think that’s right. The claims in the example I gave I don’t think would stand up to modest scrutiny. Compensation, for example, would be deemed earned where the services were provided and/or where the funds were received. Those are countries with tax schemes that define “income” for tax purposes; they do not include international air space, unless the executive provided his services for the relevant period from a Gulfstream V continually flying over int’l air space.
It is enough to get past scrutiny if one or more of the relevant countries isn’t paying attention, or scrutinizes exec’v comp with barely a wink and a nod, as occurred during Bush II. Are Bahma and Rahma taking such things any more seriously than Shrub? I’d like to know.
Yes, well, the full story is here: http://www.cityhallnews.com/print.php?a=2123
I read yesterday that GM raided the workers healthcare plan to the tune of $11 Billion to finance their employee buy-out and that they include executive pension expenses when they state the ‘legacy’ healthcare costs that they used to inflate the cost of labor
Remember the $75/hour figure that had all the tea-bagger types up in arms?
It seems that every where you look, employee healthcare funds have been looted along with pension funds all the while, executive pension fund costs have been ballooning, and are routinely included in the calculation of labor expenses so as to hide the obvious disparity.
This democracy has clearly failed the people. This constitution and the laws that have been enacted have screwed the people at the expense of the wealthy and the corporations they own.
Capitalism IS a ponzi scheme.
Credit IS a ponzi scheme.
Ponzi schemes make the top wealthy by exploiting the millions on the bottom.
To spocko@37, I think that’s right. The claims in the example I gave I don’t think would stand up to modest scrutiny. Compensation, for example, would be deemed earned where the services were provided and/or where the funds were received. Those are countries with tax schemes that define “income” for tax purposes; they do not include international air space, unless the executive provided his services for the relevant period from a Gulfstream V continually flying over int’l air space.
It is enough to get past scrutiny if one or more of the relevant countries isn’t paying attention, or scrutinizes exec’v comp with barely a wink and a nod, as occurred during Bush II. Are Bahma and Rahma taking such things any more seriously than Shrub? I’d like to know.
I think a good start toward reform would be some RICO indictments among these too big to fail entities.
What do you think of the incredibly low voter turnout lately in primaries. Not like anything is at stake these days.
And the vilification of Acorn … which is a sponsor of the Working Families Party in NYC, is it not? On the hit list of the right.
Political action, noble as it may be is not going to change this system. We need a revolution and we need direct action by the people.
America is a third world country.
Obama may be well intentioned and intelligent but he is either owned or can’t get this system to begin turing away from predatory capitalism and militarism.
We need to take our country back and that is a huge undertaking.
Low voter turnout–not great. But, it is also true that people just were not that turned out by the candidates and the races for mayor, in the primaries, were not that interesting to people. I’m not excusing it.
Yes, ACORN is a big part of the WFP. And ACORN is under the gun. Not pretty.
To libbyliberal@60, lotteries are a scam. They generate revenue for state coffers, but huge profits for the few companies that run them. The are a regressive tax on the poor, who are so desperate they play them far more frequently than others, who can meet their daily needs with cash instead of dreams.
The payouts are small compared to the amounts taken in, but everyone thinks they’ll be a success, win the lottery or get the girl/boy. The small number of tickets worth more than the price of another ticket or two, and the infrequency of payouts, is a good indication of their unfairness. But since they are dream machines, it’s the big payout that draws buyers.
I was surprised there was no mention of media consolidation in your Seven Proposals, Jonathan. It seems to me that the current media structure, ossified and protective of oligarchy, is very critical to the hold on power we must break. Additionally, of course, the insanity of everyone on television who comments on taxation being among the very few who would be affected by the increase in tax rates at the top.
So there are two problems, I guess: breaking the media monopoly, and democratizing access. Do you think we can accomplish these through anti-trust and technological progress? Or will the current entities bigfoot any attempt to continue the Internet’s distributive impact?
And can we win against the powers-that-be when they control all our channels?
And yet we have 800 bases around the world. We could liquidate some to fight national bankruptcy not to mention corporate imperialism. And we are colonizing for natural resources for the corporations at the groteque expense of indigenous populations all for the corporate agenda as our own other “America” citizens sink into the economic quicksand. And citizens of other countries have their lives devastated or destroyed by our military industrial complex machine.
@116
Sander, check out an article over at Information Clearing House:
If The Russians Did This To Us, We’d Kill ‘Em
By David Michael Green
Much of what is being discussed is reflected there,too.
I used to think that as well, but this guy has turned my opinions around on money and “investing.”
http://danielamerman.com/
Using the system against itself. Cash ain’t where it’s at, at least not over the next few years when inflation really kicks in. Much more subversive.
Why vote, the people think, look at the choices we have. And then there are those who sound good and when they go to capital hill they fade and go with the flow.
How is it that polls show overwhelming support for public health care, single payer or a robust public option and we are not seeing the representative represent the people? How is that possible? Who are they representing? Why?
People are seeing this and trying to figure out what to do. They came our for Obama because he promised all sorts of change and has not delivered. It’s W but one who can read a telepromter.
Yeah, a dollar and a dream. Though I wonder if people are pulling away from them, as well as their daily Starbucks.
I used to buy an “instant ticket” once in a while years ago. I stopped when I realized the frequency of winning even $2 had been drastically reduced.
To use the system you need access to money. Pension funds are controlled by the enemy of the people/workers – their management.
And large funds are invested in the same stupid capitalist operations to grow their fund.
I’m with you. I suppose in my conclusion I probably didn’t want to throw in everything. I don’t recall whether I had media consolidation on my list–but it’s something I personally worked on a lot as president of the Writers Union since, for obvious reasons, the growing power of media companies was not a good thing for writers trying to confront the likes of TimeWarner and Bertelsmann.
I’m a bit unsure about the technology issue. Meaning, I see how powerful the democratization can be. And, unless I’m off, I think recently there was a good development at the FCC in terms of a move to prohibit the carriers from favoring one kind of content over another. But, ultimately, this comes down to marketing and dollars–are the sites that will capture eyeballs, and influence ideas, still be those that in the old days dominated simply because they have the cash to spend.
As we come to the end of our two-hour Book Salon, I want to thank everyone who participated in this terrific chat, and author Jonathan Tasini for his time and attention to the many questions presented here today. I really hope that those of you who haven’t read the book will click on the image atop this post and buy a copy.
The Audacity of Greed is a handy reference when you need to cite an outrage to prove a point, but it also provides policy prescriptions and a clear way forward to a better society. Buy this book! — support progressive publishing and support a progressive thinker!
Thanks again, everyone.
thanks teddy and jonathan….. great salon!!!
And I want to thank everyone for the great conversation. For Teddy for doing all the prep work and the intro and the moderation. To Bev for all her work in organizing these.
Feel free to email me if you’d like to ask anything else jtasini@economicfuturegroup.com
And keep up the great energy and work at FDL!!!
Thanks to both Jonathan and Teddy – super discussion.
Yes,
And we need more Jane’s, and I know most of the commentators here are doing all they can and it has made a difference, and we won’t quit.
Your book will be read by many, me included, and there is a hell of a lot of information out there, one of the problems is getting it to those who don’t really think of this stuff very much. They know something is wrong, they feel it in their pocketbooks, they intuitively know that something is not right…if we can focus that we can get them to act.(perchance I dream)
I just remembered that, what, seven corporations control most of the media.
In a moment of levity, I am going down the yellowbrick road to expose the man behind the green curtain.
Ruth Calvo has a diary ready, upstairs!
DeMint’s Sedition: Flying Off To Fight Against The U.S.
Sorry to see you go – but greatly appreciate the time your gave us. Good luck with your book!
I was an extra on Leverage this summer! Episodes 1 and 5!