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	<title>Comments on: The Normal Violence of Capitalism</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/</link>
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		<title>By: PaulaT</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985836</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulaT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985836</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Stories like that are why I know I will never be filthy rich. I just don’t have what it takes to do things like that to people and I can’t seem to forget that those numbers on spreadsheets have people behind them. Sure are a lot of people who manage it, though, unfortunately.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stories like that are why I know I will never be filthy rich. I just don’t have what it takes to do things like that to people and I can’t seem to forget that those numbers on spreadsheets have people behind them. Sure are a lot of people who manage it, though, unfortunately.</p>
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		<title>By: sporkovat</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985827</link>
		<dc:creator>sporkovat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 06:08:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985827</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;thanks for that reply. these things are murky, there is no hard and fast answer. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Ethical decisions and moral choices have to be made in the context of uncertain outcomes. We can’t know in advance whether our choice will have a better or worse outcome than any other choice. &lt;em&gt;That’s why it’s better in ethics to choose an outcome where at least you know you’ll have a better chance at doing some good than a choice where doing a greater good has a lesser chance of succeeding.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;such a skill to express this thought as you do.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for that reply. these things are murky, there is no hard and fast answer. </p>
<blockquote><p>Ethical decisions and moral choices have to be made in the context of uncertain outcomes. We can’t know in advance whether our choice will have a better or worse outcome than any other choice. <em>That’s why it’s better in ethics to choose an outcome where at least you know you’ll have a better chance at doing some good than a choice where doing a greater good has a lesser chance of succeeding.</em></p>
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<p>such a skill to express this thought as you do.</p>
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		<title>By: killfile</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985732</link>
		<dc:creator>killfile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 04:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985732</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;“The left in the US has always accepted capitalism”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The US did have a strong anti-industrial, anti-capitalist movement that included the early unions, socialists like Debs and anarchists like Goldman. They didn’t accept the wage system and felt that workers could and should manage capital themselves. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But a century later, we cannot articulate an alternative not because those ideas don’t exist but because anything smacking of socialism/communism/anarchism has been systematically and relentlessly attacked and suppressed. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think this is why the only solution offered, in the face of massive and unmerciful class warfare is a tepid “lets primary some Democrats”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“The left in the US has always accepted capitalism”</p>
<p>The US did have a strong anti-industrial, anti-capitalist movement that included the early unions, socialists like Debs and anarchists like Goldman. They didn’t accept the wage system and felt that workers could and should manage capital themselves. </p>
<p>But a century later, we cannot articulate an alternative not because those ideas don’t exist but because anything smacking of socialism/communism/anarchism has been systematically and relentlessly attacked and suppressed. </p>
<p>I think this is why the only solution offered, in the face of massive and unmerciful class warfare is a tepid “lets primary some Democrats”.</p>
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		<title>By: PaulaT</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985631</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulaT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985631</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m not sure that is the only explanation for their arrogance, although it certainly is a likely one. I worked for a nonprofit whose CEO was making a huge amount of money while being totally incompetent and cutting jobs of people who actually did the work under the contracts that brought in money. She also spent a ton of money on the company credit card while nickel and diming mileage reimbursement and supply and training requests. She was not actually all that sure that the Board wouldn’t boot her and went through a huge stress attack, which she spread out to the whole organization, every time there was going to be a board meeting. But she also really believed that she was the most important person in the organization, that she was the one who kept it running and made it what it was and that she was only getting average compensation (no doubt she was comparing her salary to the best of what she could imagine her cohorts rather than incompetents in a small nonprofit).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I was struck by some of the interviews of Wall Street types after the bust and saw my old boss in their reactions.  I think many of them were genuinely confused as to why they would get death threats or picketing or threats to reduce their salaries and bonuses.  They have convinced themselves, and everyone around them since birth has convinced them, that they really are that important and valuable. People who do the work are replaceable widgets while they are at the top because they deserve it and make the company what it is. I never could convince my boss that we (I was middle mgmt) would be better off protecting the jobs and salaries of the front line people than management. As I put it, the people whose contracts I ran were obviously very happy with the way I ran my department and appreciated that I did a good job, and certainly I was worth a lot to them and to the company.  But when it comes right down to it, what they really care about is how well the people who show up at their sites and perform the direct services do their jobs day in and day out, whether there are enough of them, they are trained enough, have the right supplies, are happy enough to work hard, etc. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but completely foreign to her.  They lost all their contracts in my department in the downturn and laid us all off while she kept her salary and laid off office staff so if someone called in sick there was literally no one to answer the phone or greet people at the front.  I heard she was let go after about a year, never having come to terms with the idea that she was killing the enterprise by hanging on to her notion of her own importance to the enterprise. A Wall St banker stuck in a Main Street life, poor thing.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m not sure that is the only explanation for their arrogance, although it certainly is a likely one. I worked for a nonprofit whose CEO was making a huge amount of money while being totally incompetent and cutting jobs of people who actually did the work under the contracts that brought in money. She also spent a ton of money on the company credit card while nickel and diming mileage reimbursement and supply and training requests. She was not actually all that sure that the Board wouldn’t boot her and went through a huge stress attack, which she spread out to the whole organization, every time there was going to be a board meeting. But she also really believed that she was the most important person in the organization, that she was the one who kept it running and made it what it was and that she was only getting average compensation (no doubt she was comparing her salary to the best of what she could imagine her cohorts rather than incompetents in a small nonprofit).</p>
<p>I was struck by some of the interviews of Wall Street types after the bust and saw my old boss in their reactions.  I think many of them were genuinely confused as to why they would get death threats or picketing or threats to reduce their salaries and bonuses.  They have convinced themselves, and everyone around them since birth has convinced them, that they really are that important and valuable. People who do the work are replaceable widgets while they are at the top because they deserve it and make the company what it is. I never could convince my boss that we (I was middle mgmt) would be better off protecting the jobs and salaries of the front line people than management. As I put it, the people whose contracts I ran were obviously very happy with the way I ran my department and appreciated that I did a good job, and certainly I was worth a lot to them and to the company.  But when it comes right down to it, what they really care about is how well the people who show up at their sites and perform the direct services do their jobs day in and day out, whether there are enough of them, they are trained enough, have the right supplies, are happy enough to work hard, etc. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but completely foreign to her.  They lost all their contracts in my department in the downturn and laid us all off while she kept her salary and laid off office staff so if someone called in sick there was literally no one to answer the phone or greet people at the front.  I heard she was let go after about a year, never having come to terms with the idea that she was killing the enterprise by hanging on to her notion of her own importance to the enterprise. A Wall St banker stuck in a Main Street life, poor thing.</p>
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		<title>By: jonerik</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985630</link>
		<dc:creator>jonerik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985630</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What the German engineer is espousing is what the great German philosopher Immanual Kant espoused in his work on the Critique of Practical Reason calling it the “categorical imperative.” One should act as if the entire world should act the same way. That’s my interpretation anyway. As an approach to ethics, it has a lot to commend it. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But it’s easy to look back and say I ought to have done such and such and if other people in the same position had done such and such what a wonderful world this would be. Ethical decisions and moral choices have to be made in the context of uncertain outcomes. We can’t know in advance whether our choice will have a better or worse outcome than any other choice. That’s why it’s better in ethics to choose an outcome where at least you know you’ll have a better chance at doing some good than a choice where doing a greater good has a lesser chance of succeeding.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the German engineer is espousing is what the great German philosopher Immanual Kant espoused in his work on the Critique of Practical Reason calling it the “categorical imperative.” One should act as if the entire world should act the same way. That’s my interpretation anyway. As an approach to ethics, it has a lot to commend it. </p>
<p>But it’s easy to look back and say I ought to have done such and such and if other people in the same position had done such and such what a wonderful world this would be. Ethical decisions and moral choices have to be made in the context of uncertain outcomes. We can’t know in advance whether our choice will have a better or worse outcome than any other choice. That’s why it’s better in ethics to choose an outcome where at least you know you’ll have a better chance at doing some good than a choice where doing a greater good has a lesser chance of succeeding.</p>
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		<title>By: Rixar13</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985610</link>
		<dc:creator>Rixar13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 02:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985610</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thank you for this informaton. I look forward to watch the Michael Moore movie on the 2nd of October, “Capitalism - A Love story”.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;PaulaT &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“The greedier and more sociopathically callous you are, the better you do in the corporate world.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this informaton. I look forward to watch the Michael Moore movie on the 2nd of October, “Capitalism &#8211; A Love story”.</p>
<p>PaulaT </p>
<p>“The greedier and more sociopathically callous you are, the better you do in the corporate world.”</p>
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		<title>By: masaccio</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985593</link>
		<dc:creator>masaccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985593</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It is kind of amazing that Wall Street didn’t even try to hide it’s true nature. Their arrogance can only mean they really didn’t worry about increases in regulation from the administration. I hope they were wrong.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is kind of amazing that Wall Street didn’t even try to hide it’s true nature. Their arrogance can only mean they really didn’t worry about increases in regulation from the administration. I hope they were wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: masaccio</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985586</link>
		<dc:creator>masaccio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985586</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks for the kind words!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the kind words!</p>
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		<title>By: SunnyNobility</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985567</link>
		<dc:creator>SunnyNobility</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985567</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thank you massaccio.  It is always a very good day when you post.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you massaccio.  It is always a very good day when you post.</p>
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		<title>By: marcos</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985531</link>
		<dc:creator>marcos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/the-normal-violence-of-capitalism/#comment-1985531</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think that “economic decadence” is a pretty descriptive term.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that “economic decadence” is a pretty descriptive term.</p>
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