Comments on: Prairie Humanism and the Politics of the West http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/ Firedoglake weblog Sat, 18 Feb 2012 02:45:27 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: PaulaT http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985535 PaulaT Mon, 28 Sep 2009 01:23:37 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985535 <p>Thanks for your post. It has helped me see in clearer words something I have wondered about in my own social milieu. I was raised Mormon, but the more I get into politics, the more it astonishes me that Mormons are so staunchly Republican as a group. They give 10% of their gross income to help other people and every month fast for two meals and donate what they would have paid for the food to the Church to be used to feed those who don’t have enough to eat. They have a welfare program and social services and I recall spending many a Saturday working for free in a fruit orchard owned the by the Church welfare system and canning for the Bishop’s warehouse, where those in need could go get food. My dad is so giving of anyone who asks, even those who have taken advantage, that my mom was ready to divorce him on a regular basis over the amounts of money he was passing around to other families that she thought should stay in ours. But he is a die-hard Republican. It isn’t just about the Church’s big issue, gay marriage, either, because I have a gay brother he treats the same since he came out of the closet as he did before.</p> <p>His problem is that he truly believes that you should help your neighbor and be your brother’s keeper, but out of choice, not out of force. The fact that he is so giving of his private charity blinds him, I think, to the fact that private charity cannot be relied on to solve our collective problems or meet our collective needs. He is of pioneer stock and will help anyone in need, but is independent enough to want to be able to do it his way and fearful of a government that gets too involved in anything. He’s misguided, but he’s no selfish, uncaring “let them eat cake” guy. I sometimes despair of our finding common political ground because it bothers him no end that I am a bleeding heart liberal, but I have to believe there is hope somehow to bridge the gap. We need to have a coalition of the caring no matter what form their preferred means of caring takes.</p> Thanks for your post. It has helped me see in clearer words something I have wondered about in my own social milieu. I was raised Mormon, but the more I get into politics, the more it astonishes me that Mormons are so staunchly Republican as a group. They give 10% of their gross income to help other people and every month fast for two meals and donate what they would have paid for the food to the Church to be used to feed those who don’t have enough to eat. They have a welfare program and social services and I recall spending many a Saturday working for free in a fruit orchard owned the by the Church welfare system and canning for the Bishop’s warehouse, where those in need could go get food. My dad is so giving of anyone who asks, even those who have taken advantage, that my mom was ready to divorce him on a regular basis over the amounts of money he was passing around to other families that she thought should stay in ours. But he is a die-hard Republican. It isn’t just about the Church’s big issue, gay marriage, either, because I have a gay brother he treats the same since he came out of the closet as he did before.

His problem is that he truly believes that you should help your neighbor and be your brother’s keeper, but out of choice, not out of force. The fact that he is so giving of his private charity blinds him, I think, to the fact that private charity cannot be relied on to solve our collective problems or meet our collective needs. He is of pioneer stock and will help anyone in need, but is independent enough to want to be able to do it his way and fearful of a government that gets too involved in anything. He’s misguided, but he’s no selfish, uncaring “let them eat cake” guy. I sometimes despair of our finding common political ground because it bothers him no end that I am a bleeding heart liberal, but I have to believe there is hope somehow to bridge the gap. We need to have a coalition of the caring no matter what form their preferred means of caring takes.

]]> By: esseff44 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985340 esseff44 Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:17:12 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985340 <p>Here’s a letter that shows what went into SF recovery after the 1906 earthquake and fire. </p> <p><a href="http://www.sfmuseum.org/1906/rebuild.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.sfmuseum.org/1906/rebuild.html</a></p> Here’s a letter that shows what went into SF recovery after the 1906 earthquake and fire.

http://www.sfmuseum.org/1906/rebuild.html

]]> By: esseff44 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985317 esseff44 Sun, 27 Sep 2009 21:00:51 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985317 <p>I have to point out that there was a great deal of government assistance after the SF earthquake including the military that shot people on sight for looting. Not everybody was helping everybody else. Looting was rampant and there was a lot of every man for himself as there always is. Also, there were a lot of people helping their friends and neighbors and taking in refugees who made it across the bay. Just because there was no organization called FEMA doesn’t mean there isn’t a great need for organized govenment help in such emergencies as Katrina, earthquakes, wildfires, other natural disasters as well as man-made ones. Without such assistance, recovery would be very slow. People can help each other better if they have the means to help each other</p> I have to point out that there was a great deal of government assistance after the SF earthquake including the military that shot people on sight for looting. Not everybody was helping everybody else. Looting was rampant and there was a lot of every man for himself as there always is. Also, there were a lot of people helping their friends and neighbors and taking in refugees who made it across the bay. Just because there was no organization called FEMA doesn’t mean there isn’t a great need for organized govenment help in such emergencies as Katrina, earthquakes, wildfires, other natural disasters as well as man-made ones. Without such assistance, recovery would be very slow. People can help each other better if they have the means to help each other

]]> By: BaileyWuXiang http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985309 BaileyWuXiang Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:41:28 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985309 <p>Over here in Reeves County, on the other side of the mountains, we don’t even have a Republican Party. It’d be nice if they didn’t act like Republicans.</p> <p>–cliff hammond<br /> Balmorhea</p> Over here in Reeves County, on the other side of the mountains, we don’t even have a Republican Party. It’d be nice if they didn’t act like Republicans.

–cliff hammond
Balmorhea

]]> By: readerOfTeaLeaves http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985303 readerOfTeaLeaves Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:26:32 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985303 <p>Great post.</p> <p>I think that if there were more accountability in government and finance, some of the distrust would diminish and the empathy would increase. Not so much that we’d all be saints, but enough to have a healthier, more functional society.</p> Great post.

I think that if there were more accountability in government and finance, some of the distrust would diminish and the empathy would increase. Not so much that we’d all be saints, but enough to have a healthier, more functional society.

]]> By: marcos http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985297 marcos Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:14:10 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985297 <p>Government needs to be as big as the problems it needs to solve are large. Infrastructure needs to be maintained and expanded and corporations need to be regulated to protect Americans from the off balance sheet consequences of industrialism.</p> <p>The people who promised that the era of big government is over delivered precisely the opposite while running the economy off of the cliff, exporting our middle class jobs and importing cheap tech labor. That’s not going to fix itself, a pro-American worker industrial policy is not going to come about because of cooperation amongst titans of industry.</p> <p>In all reality, it would take a staff as large as Goldman Sachs and paying similar remuneration for the government to be able to regulate Goldman Sachs in real time because they just keep inventing new contrivances which are not regulated by the letter of the law.</p> <p>Similarly, so long as gargantuan corporations prowl the planet, it will take bulk as well as sharpened points to effectively check their power sometimes.</p> Government needs to be as big as the problems it needs to solve are large. Infrastructure needs to be maintained and expanded and corporations need to be regulated to protect Americans from the off balance sheet consequences of industrialism.

The people who promised that the era of big government is over delivered precisely the opposite while running the economy off of the cliff, exporting our middle class jobs and importing cheap tech labor. That’s not going to fix itself, a pro-American worker industrial policy is not going to come about because of cooperation amongst titans of industry.

In all reality, it would take a staff as large as Goldman Sachs and paying similar remuneration for the government to be able to regulate Goldman Sachs in real time because they just keep inventing new contrivances which are not regulated by the letter of the law.

Similarly, so long as gargantuan corporations prowl the planet, it will take bulk as well as sharpened points to effectively check their power sometimes.

]]> By: ofufo http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985283 ofufo Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:53:11 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985283 <p>And don’t forget Woodstock-era Country Joe and the Fish. Their signature “Feel like I’m fixin’ to die rag” could be updated with “Viet Nam” replaced with, uh, just about anything.</p> And don’t forget Woodstock-era Country Joe and the Fish. Their signature “Feel like I’m fixin’ to die rag” could be updated with “Viet Nam” replaced with, uh, just about anything.

]]> By: Mile23 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985280 Mile23 Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:50:56 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985280 <p>Glenn: “I wonder frequently how it is I can feel close to folks with whom I have profound political differences. But then I realize that often the political disagreements are based on thin symbols or other superficial, learned stuff. Connecting simply at a deeper level gets by all that, and there is every reason to take that approach in our larger political communications.”</p> <p>This is what I’ve been trying to tell people for a long time. And really, this is EXACTLY the dynamic targeted by the fear-mongers of the right. They know that if people are freaked out, they won’t be able to even see the deeper connection, much less let it give them perspective to see the distractions as distractions.</p> <p>Also, when your opponents are coming at you from that perspective, it’s very easy to fall into their false dichotomy. I think what you’re really saying is not so much that those evil right-wingers are all mixed up, but that anyone with a more progressive or wider view must be very careful not to play into the game of fear.</p> <p>To which I reply: Thanks for the reminder. :-)</p> Glenn: “I wonder frequently how it is I can feel close to folks with whom I have profound political differences. But then I realize that often the political disagreements are based on thin symbols or other superficial, learned stuff. Connecting simply at a deeper level gets by all that, and there is every reason to take that approach in our larger political communications.”

This is what I’ve been trying to tell people for a long time. And really, this is EXACTLY the dynamic targeted by the fear-mongers of the right. They know that if people are freaked out, they won’t be able to even see the deeper connection, much less let it give them perspective to see the distractions as distractions.

Also, when your opponents are coming at you from that perspective, it’s very easy to fall into their false dichotomy. I think what you’re really saying is not so much that those evil right-wingers are all mixed up, but that anyone with a more progressive or wider view must be very careful not to play into the game of fear.

To which I reply: Thanks for the reminder. :-)

]]> By: Glenn W. Smith http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985279 Glenn W. Smith Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:49:23 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985279 <p>Big teeth, but not necessarily big government…</p> Big teeth, but not necessarily big government…

]]> By: Bassface http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985268 Bassface Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:35:22 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/27/prairie-humanism-and-the-politics-of-the-west/#comment-1985268 <p>Make the Republican Party ‘face’ the face of the guy screaming at the ’socialistic’ fire-engines that, ‘..he ain’t paying to put out everybody else’s fires!’<br /> ‘There but for the grace of God go I’, used to be the American way but conservatives, now, condemn victims right up to the time they become the victim.</p> Make the Republican Party ‘face’ the face of the guy screaming at the ’socialistic’ fire-engines that, ‘..he ain’t paying to put out everybody else’s fires!’
‘There but for the grace of God go I’, used to be the American way but conservatives, now, condemn victims right up to the time they become the victim.

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