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	<title>Comments on: Come Saturday Morning: Right-Wing Corporate Lies about Water</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/</link>
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		<title>By: Frugalchariot</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984693</link>
		<dc:creator>Frugalchariot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 22:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984693</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Seems to me I recall reading many years ago a comment by a member of the Flat Earth Society who, when shown a series of photos of the earth taken from space, remarked that “to the untrained eye, yes, it might appear to be round.”  Something like that.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;‘There’s nothing new under the sun,’ according to King Solomon several millennia ago.  He never met Glenn Beck, though.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me I recall reading many years ago a comment by a member of the Flat Earth Society who, when shown a series of photos of the earth taken from space, remarked that “to the untrained eye, yes, it might appear to be round.”  Something like that.</p>
<p>‘There’s nothing new under the sun,’ according to King Solomon several millennia ago.  He never met Glenn Beck, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984604</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984604</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m lucky in that I learned how to spot paid RNC trolls when I hung around Salon’s “Table Talk” message boards — one of the early spawning grounds of many prominent prog-bloggers — back in the days when TT was a wide-open lightly-moderated free-for-all.  One technique I pioneered was the creation of “roach motels”:  Threads that were designed specifically to trap the trolls therein while the legitimate commenters chatted away unmolested in other threads.  (The key to making the Roach Motels work was to toss in the occasional red-meat comment to keep the trolls occupied, because once they realized they were just talking to themselves, they’d leave the thread.)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m lucky in that I learned how to spot paid RNC trolls when I hung around Salon’s “Table Talk” message boards — one of the early spawning grounds of many prominent prog-bloggers — back in the days when TT was a wide-open lightly-moderated free-for-all.  One technique I pioneered was the creation of “roach motels”:  Threads that were designed specifically to trap the trolls therein while the legitimate commenters chatted away unmolested in other threads.  (The key to making the Roach Motels work was to toss in the occasional red-meat comment to keep the trolls occupied, because once they realized they were just talking to themselves, they’d leave the thread.)</p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984589</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 21:11:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984589</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Exactly.  Which makes it triply mendacious.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly.  Which makes it triply mendacious.</p>
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		<title>By: john in sacramento</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984575</link>
		<dc:creator>john in sacramento</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi Linda&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks, I’ll check it out&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Linda</p>
<p>Thanks, I’ll check it out</p>
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		<title>By: LindaR</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984572</link>
		<dc:creator>LindaR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984572</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;as I said, the Water Board’s site has a wealth of info:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://search.ca.gov/search?q=westlands&amp;output=xml_no_dtd&amp;site=ca_swrcb&amp;client=ca_swrcb&amp;proxystylesheet=ca_swrcb&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://search.ca.gov/search?q=.....t=ca_swrcb&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as I said, the Water Board’s site has a wealth of info:</p>
<p><a href="http://search.ca.gov/search?q=westlands&amp;output=xml_no_dtd&amp;site=ca_swrcb&amp;client=ca_swrcb&amp;proxystylesheet=ca_swrcb" rel="nofollow">http://search.ca.gov/search?q=&#8230;..t=ca_swrcb</a></p>
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		<title>By: john in sacramento</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984571</link>
		<dc:creator>john in sacramento</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 20:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984571</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Drought, or water heist?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;[…] &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The facts are that the past two years are only the ninth driest two-year period in the past 88 years, and that California routinely experiences such periods once every 10 years, according to the Department of Water Resources.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What happened last year is that water managers were betting on a wet spring. When it didn’t happen, many lakes were drained down to nothing in order to send water to L.A. and farmers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[…]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/26/SPE813N9LM.DTL&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....13N9LM.DTL&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Drought, or water heist?</i></p>
<blockquote><p>[…] </p>
<p>The facts are that the past two years are only the ninth driest two-year period in the past 88 years, and that California routinely experiences such periods once every 10 years, according to the Department of Water Resources.</p>
<p>What happened last year is that water managers were betting on a wet spring. When it didn’t happen, many lakes were drained down to nothing in order to send water to L.A. and farmers.</p>
<p>[…]</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/26/SPE813N9LM.DTL" rel="nofollow">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/&#8230;..13N9LM.DTL</a></p>
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		<title>By: john in sacramento</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984570</link>
		<dc:creator>john in sacramento</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 19:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984570</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks PW&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Slanthead Hannity is a hack&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The only people who will believe the steaming pile he spews about this, are the people in the rest of the country who don’t know any better&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is nothing but a plea for corporate welfare&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;First of all this is nothing but astroturf for the Westlands Water District - a nontraditional artificial agricultural area; i.e. federally subsidized irrigation for the last 60 or so years. Second of all this not so simple as fish v people; this is people v people. Third, there is no drought, we are in the second year of below average rainfall; an average of stats from the last 100 years or so, which is nothing in geological time (I’ll explain the &lt;b&gt;shock doctrine&lt;/b&gt; in the sixth point). Fourth, the vast majority of these “farms” are corporate owned. Fifth, Westlands is getting 86% (fyi: 86% equals more than 120% of deliveries of even 10 years ago) of their artificial allocation while the largest of these “farms” (corporate) are getting 100% of their deliveries. Sixth, last Fall, prior to the whining by the dupes like Paul Rodriguez and Slanthead Hannity, using this &lt;b&gt;shock doctrine&lt;/b&gt; of this so-called drought, the state (read: Ahnold) and Feds drew down the north state reservoirs and shipped as much water to the southern Central Valley as possible and stored in the Kern Water Bank, the Semi-tropic Waterbank and reservoirs such as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/31/SPAH120TTF.DTL&amp;type=printable&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pyramid Lake (97% full) and Castaic Lake (92% full)&lt;/a&gt; [scroll down] after the draw down&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I gave some links on one of Marcy’s threads awhile ago &lt;a href=&quot;http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/20/californias-detroit/#comment-175485&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://sacramentofordemocracy.org/?q=node/view/23365&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;State and Federal water allocations&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;The state and federal governments in recent years have pumped record amounts of water out of the California Delta&lt;/b&gt;. Some of the largest annual water export levels in history occurred in 2003 (6.3 million acre-feet), 2004 (6.1 MAF), 2005 (6.5 MAF) and 2006 (6.3 MAF). Exports averaged 4.6 MAF annually between 1990 and 1999 and increased to an average of 6 MAF between 2000 and 2007, &lt;b&gt;a rise of almost 30 percent&lt;/b&gt;, according to the California Sportfishing Protection Alliance.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As I said, Slanthead Hannity is a hack&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks PW</p>
<p>Slanthead Hannity is a hack</p>
<p>The only people who will believe the steaming pile he spews about this, are the people in the rest of the country who don’t know any better</p>
<p>This is nothing but a plea for corporate welfare</p>
<p>First of all this is nothing but astroturf for the Westlands Water District &#8211; a nontraditional artificial agricultural area; i.e. federally subsidized irrigation for the last 60 or so years. Second of all this not so simple as fish v people; this is people v people. Third, there is no drought, we are in the second year of below average rainfall; an average of stats from the last 100 years or so, which is nothing in geological time (I’ll explain the <b>shock doctrine</b> in the sixth point). Fourth, the vast majority of these “farms” are corporate owned. Fifth, Westlands is getting 86% (fyi: 86% equals more than 120% of deliveries of even 10 years ago) of their artificial allocation while the largest of these “farms” (corporate) are getting 100% of their deliveries. Sixth, last Fall, prior to the whining by the dupes like Paul Rodriguez and Slanthead Hannity, using this <b>shock doctrine</b> of this so-called drought, the state (read: Ahnold) and Feds drew down the north state reservoirs and shipped as much water to the southern Central Valley as possible and stored in the Kern Water Bank, the Semi-tropic Waterbank and reservoirs such as <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/31/SPAH120TTF.DTL&amp;type=printable" rel="nofollow">Pyramid Lake (97% full) and Castaic Lake (92% full)</a> [scroll down] after the draw down</p>
<p>I gave some links on one of Marcy’s threads awhile ago <a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/20/californias-detroit/#comment-175485" rel="nofollow">here</a></p>
<p><a href="http://sacramentofordemocracy.org/?q=node/view/23365" rel="nofollow">State and Federal water allocations</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p><b>The state and federal governments in recent years have pumped record amounts of water out of the California Delta</b>. Some of the largest annual water export levels in history occurred in 2003 (6.3 million acre-feet), 2004 (6.1 MAF), 2005 (6.5 MAF) and 2006 (6.3 MAF). Exports averaged 4.6 MAF annually between 1990 and 1999 and increased to an average of 6 MAF between 2000 and 2007, <b>a rise of almost 30 percent</b>, according to the California Sportfishing Protection Alliance.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>As I said, Slanthead Hannity is a hack</p>
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		<title>By: TheOtherWA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984561</link>
		<dc:creator>TheOtherWA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984561</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This sounds familiar. A similar stunt was pulled in southern Oregon in 2002. Water was diverted to screaming republic farmers. It didn’t turn out well. &lt;a href=&quot;http://voices.washingtonpost.com/cheney/chapters/leaving_no_tracks/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Klamath fish kill.&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Months later, the first of an estimated 77,000 dead salmon began washing up on the banks of the warm, slow-moving river. Not only were threatened coho dying — so were chinook salmon, the staple of commercial fishing in Oregon and Northern California. State and federal biologists soon concluded that the diversion of water to farms was at least partly responsible.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Last summer [2006], the federal government declared a “commercial fishery failure” on the West Coast after several years of poor chinook returns virtually shut down the industry, opening the way for Congress to approve more than $60 million in disaster aid to help fishermen recover their losses.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Salmon go downriver to the ocean (that’s called going with the flow!) and after 4 years swim back upstream to spawn. Since so many fish died in 2002, there were no fish to return in 2006.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This sounds familiar. A similar stunt was pulled in southern Oregon in 2002. Water was diverted to screaming republic farmers. It didn’t turn out well. <a href="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/cheney/chapters/leaving_no_tracks/" rel="nofollow">Klamath fish kill.</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Months later, the first of an estimated 77,000 dead salmon began washing up on the banks of the warm, slow-moving river. Not only were threatened coho dying — so were chinook salmon, the staple of commercial fishing in Oregon and Northern California. State and federal biologists soon concluded that the diversion of water to farms was at least partly responsible.</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote><p>Last summer [2006], the federal government declared a “commercial fishery failure” on the West Coast after several years of poor chinook returns virtually shut down the industry, opening the way for Congress to approve more than $60 million in disaster aid to help fishermen recover their losses.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Salmon go downriver to the ocean (that’s called going with the flow!) and after 4 years swim back upstream to spawn. Since so many fish died in 2002, there were no fish to return in 2006.</p>
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		<title>By: OldFatGuy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984558</link>
		<dc:creator>OldFatGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984558</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;However, there are some who are so stupid, that no amount of factual rebuttal will make any difference.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Yep.  I have friends who insist on trying to “just talk to these people” and maybe they will understand facts.  Nope.  Wrong.  Never happen.  Never.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There are millions, literally tens of millions of people, who only believe in the “who” and not in the “what”.  What I mean by that, they only believe stuff based on “who’s” saying it, rather than “what’s” being said.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ergo, if Fox News said it, it’s true.  If anyone else said it, it’s false, until validated by Fox News.  If a Republican says it, it’s true.  If a Democrat says it, it’s false.  Period.  End of story. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You could grab those folks by the shoulders, force them outside on a bright clear day, lean them back and force open their eyes so they have to see the sky, and yet if Fox News told them the sky was green, green it is.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s a waste of time and effort to even bother IMO.  We have to fight the monsters that did this, not the folks it was done to.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>However, there are some who are so stupid, that no amount of factual rebuttal will make any difference.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Yep.  I have friends who insist on trying to “just talk to these people” and maybe they will understand facts.  Nope.  Wrong.  Never happen.  Never.</p>
<p>There are millions, literally tens of millions of people, who only believe in the “who” and not in the “what”.  What I mean by that, they only believe stuff based on “who’s” saying it, rather than “what’s” being said.</p>
<p>Ergo, if Fox News said it, it’s true.  If anyone else said it, it’s false, until validated by Fox News.  If a Republican says it, it’s true.  If a Democrat says it, it’s false.  Period.  End of story. </p>
<p>You could grab those folks by the shoulders, force them outside on a bright clear day, lean them back and force open their eyes so they have to see the sky, and yet if Fox News told them the sky was green, green it is.</p>
<p>It’s a waste of time and effort to even bother IMO.  We have to fight the monsters that did this, not the folks it was done to.</p>
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		<title>By: Gasman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984556</link>
		<dc:creator>Gasman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/09/26/come-saturday-morning-right-wing-corporate-lies-about-water/#comment-1984556</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;FauxNews knows that their viewers are buffoons and will not question anything they hear in the echo chamber.  They exploit the imbecility of the sheeple without conscience.  It is a very intentional misinformation campaign designed to move policy to the right by employing the willing morons to scream and shout in fear. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The best antidote is factual rebuttal:  “Sunshine is the best disinfectant.”   - Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;However, there are some who are so stupid, that no amount of factual rebuttal will make any difference.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FauxNews knows that their viewers are buffoons and will not question anything they hear in the echo chamber.  They exploit the imbecility of the sheeple without conscience.  It is a very intentional misinformation campaign designed to move policy to the right by employing the willing morons to scream and shout in fear. </p>
<p>The best antidote is factual rebuttal:  “Sunshine is the best disinfectant.”   &#8211; Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis</p>
<p>However, there are some who are so stupid, that no amount of factual rebuttal will make any difference.</p>
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