I was thinking exactly the same, that this was staged

remember when bush’s sotu said “privitizing social security” was defeated” and the democrats gave him a standing ovation?

that was histerical but clearly staged, I thought immediatly this was pay back

“You Lie” is completely lame outburst.

Looks to me like we’re comparing a photography of the instant of the scream (Wilson and the Rs) with a photograph of the moment after the scream (Biden, Pelosi, Obama).

Things might look a little different if we had a photo of the Rs from the same moment for which we have the photo of Obama, Biden, Pelosi. That is to say, given a little reaction time, the Rs may have reacted.

Not that I would put anything past the Rs.

Strange also that the camera was pointed at Joe when the scream came.

Me Too.
When I first saw the replay I thought those Repubs sitting next to him didn’t react in the slightest.

So glad this is being mentioned because I noticed it and decided maybe I was getting paranoid. Happy to know that at least I’m not alone.

How about when Wilson was asked about the outburst one of the first things out of his miserable pie hole was, “It was totally spontaneous.” He was never asked if it was planned or spontaneous; he volunteered that information right off the bat. That’s what made me first believe it was all planned. And who better to do it than a piece of work like Wilson?

They all collectively use ONE dimentedly stupid brain. Of course they knew it was coming.

This struck me as bought and paid for the moment it happened.

Just because you’re paranoid…

The thought has been lurking in my mind since it happened. In addition to what you say, the outburst puts the immigration issue back on the map-a favorite of the GOP. And it feeds into a meme that the GOP wants to promote through the mid-terms: that Obama and the Democrats are liars, not to be trusted. This sort of outburst only makes sense to me if it translates into winning at the ballot box.

They all collectively use ONE dimentedly stupid brain. Of course they knew it was coming.

and that brain was responsible for the collapse of their party, they know it yet they still follow his walking pipe just like rats behind the pied piper

rove was the fall of their party, now contrast that to rush who is a secret democrat

rove makes them do things that make them look like morons, rove says things that drive anyone sane out of the republican party

therefore, rove is the cause of their fall, rush is a secret democrat determined to drive moderates into the democratic party

Isn’t Joe Wilson a member of the racist neo-Confederate group “Sons of Confederate Veterans”? If so, his ties to the teabaggers, neo-nazi groups, and other political extremists should also be checked. If they check the Republicans that will probably do it.

Sets off a whole cascade of other questions, doesn’t it?

Is anybody talking about Wilson running for governor?

Was internal polling showing Wilson losing to Miller anyhow?

Was Wilson compromised by something else that he had no choice but to comply with the GOP’s desire to make him the butt/fall guy in order to keep his own party on his side?

Fun stuff…

In the overall scheme of things, does it matter much whether the outburst was planned or spontaneous?

I’m with you, Twain. They just needed a catchy “Rally Cry” for the Beck family reunion.

It is going to backfire on the republics as it did in ‘08.
The african american community is none to happy about that little “outburst” and they are not alone. How blatently racisist do republics think they can be without thinking the minorities are going to notice? I hope it blows up in their collective faces bigger than ever.

if this WAS a stunt,it was remarkably ill-conceived. the outburst ahs been widely condemned by anyone responsible, and it’s made the GOP look worse than ever.

yes, their little echo chamber is all excited, but they’re a tiny fringe.

Yes, look at the Seminal diary by Skeeter.

Who are the congressmen around Wilson?

We have not yet seen the vastness of the racism in that small Southern Party.

The echo chamber is not a tiny fringe of either the Republic Party or the talk radio noise machine.

OT – Chris Hedges has a very prescient and alarming article over on truthdig.

Of course it was planned. It’s how they roll. The “tell” is not so much in the moment, but how it’s “reported” over the next 48 hours.

Samuel the Wurzelbacher, Rick Santellitubby, Teabaggin’, all this supposedly “happens,” yet there’s this incredibly complex infrastructure set up within 48 hours to support said event, and it immediately dominates the news cycle for a long time, which leads to it being part of the public discourse for years to come. Exactly what they want, since each build upon the other.

Often the money trail is found to the various Repub PR companies, yet that part goes completely unreported, t least in BigMedia.

Obama was biling his speech as a biggie and telling people to watch it, so it makes sense they’d devise some plan to take away the attention. And now, this asshat gets more coverage than details of the issues involved. This isn’t by accident. Obama directly showed his disdain for this when asked about Wilson last night on 60 Minutes. The PR/BigMedia marriage is one of the biggest issues of our time.

It isn’t beyond the realm of reason, but it seems improbable that it was scripted. Wilson isn’t the right messenger and, more importantly, that wasn’t the best part of the speech to challenge.

The story would have been much more helpful to the GOP, if the allegation of falsehood was more tenable. On that score, particularly, if the independents are what is at play, the cost of the plan is where the speech was the most vulnerable.

Interesting theory, it was odd that none of them looked.

Such stunts are the Republics’ best bet. They certainly don’t want anyone to think about how things work when they are in charge.

On every major measurement, the Census Bureau report shows that the country lost ground during Bush’s two terms. While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked. By contrast, the country’s condition improved on each of those measures during Bill Clinton’s two terms, often substantially.

A-yup, it matters.

1) If they knew it was coming, it’s part of a larger effort to undermine the legitimacy of the presidency, because these guys never do something just once. What’s the rest of the plan look like?

2) If there were reasons Wilson drew the short straw, what were they and how do we capitalize on them?

3) If there was an even larger strategy, what’s that look like and how do we cut it off at the pass — unlike now, where we find ourselves behind the eight-ball, scrambling to regain the mojo which came with winning the White House and a majority in Congress.

It matters.

This whole “you lie” episode is not unlike the press conference earlier this summer, where Obama spent the whole time speaking and answering questions about health care, and then was asked the question about Prof. Gates arrest in his house, which totally took over the media narrative.

These episodes are about who gets to control the media narrative, and so far it’s Rethugs 2, Obama 0.

Before, I was 30-70 that this was preplanned- Lawd knows they sure as shootin’ stepped on OB’s story. After lookin’ at the pic, I am 60-40.

Either way, Rove is still w/in the sound of poppin’ champaign corks.

The dude to the left of Wilson looks smug.

It’s not like we needed the Census report to tell us that, we already knew. What I don’t understand is why every dem isn’t yelling it from the rooftops. I hear them asked about the costs of healthcare reform and I never hear a dem answer with why this wasn’t raised when bush gave away trillions in tax cuts and spent billions a week on the war in Iraq. The economic crisis was caused by bush policy over 8 years, not Obama policy in the last 8 months.

if we have not learned anything from the likes of lee attwater, karl rove and frank lutz, the republicans never do anything “spontaneously.” i think the picture of good ol’ “just overcome by my emotions” joe wilson yelling out you lie is most telling. look at the man sitting to his left and look at his body language. even some republicans have a sense of decency, civility and decorum left.

I don’t know that it was strange, but the cat calling was not unexpected. The last month saw this rude behavior play well on the MSM at the town halls. Why not do it at the big town hall. This sort of aggressive rude and confrontational approach IS the republican strategy. They did it in FL at the vote count and they are not going to stop.

You either ignore it, or stoop to their level and it ends in a raucous shouting match and no issues are debated or facts presented.

Repukes can’t win any real debates because the facts don’t EVER support their positions.

Hell, yes, it was planned.

So remember, every picture tells a story dont it

Obama needs to learn to control the message. He’s too casual and laid back. I know it’s his style but he could be popping news out every day and the media could not ignore it all. He’s about 2 steps behind every issue and the Rs will certainly know that.

i love this national inquirer shit… especially on a monday moanin’

it makes us look just as stoopid as the right-wing nuts…

democracy in action.

but to enter into the stoopidity: usually when an asshole acts up in one’s midst, the first reaction isnt to look at them, it is to look down (like the two dudes either side of asshole joe…)

Hey Blue Texan, have you seen our new DogCanyon?

However, Republics can win because News Corp entities and talk radio talking heads always support their positions.

If the Rs are self destructing why is ever pollster saying the Ds are taking a haircut in 2010?

This might mean that the D voters won’t go to the polls and support the bluedogs, but it’s hard to see rising Rs after this sh5t.

Thank you for pointing this out, Glenn. You are exactly right. This is what the Repukes have been up to all summer…fauxtrage over the most inane things. It matters not whether what the kerfuffle is about is true or not, only that it keep us from discussing the real subject at hand.

OT and PS – i just got an email from Rep. John Tierney – he is not running for Senator Kennedy’s seat. i emailed back that i thought it important that the House have good people in it.

So the quiver in his voice at the news conference the next day may be more out of hope that no one finds “the plan” out.

Hope someone finds out why Republican heads did not turn.

Actually, the guys on either side of him look like clones of each other…with different ties.

The first time I saw this shot, it was the seemingly calculated facial expressions that caught my eye. The absence of so much as a wince from the group made me suspicious. Glenn’s observation adds a lot of weight to those suspicions. I’ll go out on a limb and give Glenn the hat tip in anticipation of the time stamped twitter hitting the tubes.

Bookends, perhaps? holding up “My Pet Goat”?

In the Tri Delt frat world that is today’s GOP, Bluto was the obvious choice for starting the food fight. Otter knew it wasn’t a message, it was a stunt designed to obscure a message. A meaninglessness and futile act was required and Wilson was just the guy to do it.

That is a deep and thorough SNEER you are seeing on the guy on the left. He’s not even attempting to hide it. I’d say the guy on the right looks smug… he’s actually smirking.

I wish i could find the larger res version of this photo that i was looking at yesterday. It’s much easier to see the faces…

That they forgot to run it by Mitch and John would be my guess.

Who was the photographer for the shot? Is it a cropped shot from a larger photo? How did the photographer know Joe Wilson was worth photographing just then? Is there a time stamp in the metadata? Can we identify exactly the moment the pic of Obama was taken and compare?

just sayin…

It could very well be a screen capture from one of the video feeds. They would have a had a number of cameras isolated and recording specific sections. I don’t know if any of the live feeds cut to that camera in real time, but they would have had it on tape.

This from Politico’s John Bresnahan:

“House Minority Leader John Boehner of Ohio and other Republicans also privately asked Wilson to make an apology on the floor, but he wouldn’t comply, according to GOP insiders.”

Rebel insurgents have infiltrated Animal House?

Actually, I’ve been suspecting for a bit now that the ”you lie!” comment was just a very basic — and, apparently, effective — way to turn the spotlight away from a popular President making an important policy speech, back on to the crazy teabagger crowd.

It’s just a clever use of framing in debate; make it seem like the lunatic fringe is a rational viewpoint, and the debate will naturally shift away from sanity…

So I suspect that the outburst was intentional, telegraphed beforehand, and — in a way — very, very clever. Maybe Democrats should learn some judo and start employing the same tactics. Talk about how Republicans are all mass-murderers, and how the only acceptable position is full single payer healthcare and, while we’re at it, communism! — before long, the public would be CRYING OUT for a public option.

I thought it was a setup to disrupt the speech from the moment it happened. The Repubs set up a relatively unimportant rep to take the heat. Instant fame and ignominy for him and the Dems get a scramble to include stronger language against any funds for illegal immigrants in the bill……sweet

Monday Glenn!

I’m not much for conspiracies.

Effective observation and well written note. To critique its edges, as Glenn Greenwald might point out, I find it odd that we must deny “conspiracy theories” to remain Serious. The Right and the MSM have done a good job conditioning us to pretend that the games they’ve played since at least Dick Nixon don’t exist or can’t be talked about while retaining credibility. The Right suffers from no such conditioned reflex.

Karl Rove made his living dreaming up and executing dirty tricks against opponents of his well-paying clients. The only ones he didn’t like were the ones he hadn’t tried. So, too, with his mentor, Lee Atwater, the Newtster, the Hammer, ad nauseum.

Only the foolishly, self-destructively naive would put GOP dirty tricks in the same category as those who look on X-Files reruns as if they were documentaries.

As you say, we have no proof of a planned outburst, but your observation is spot on. The urge to look at unexplained, loud noises is as strong as the urge to close one’s eyes when sneezing, especially at such exceptionally well-planned and scripted events as a presidential address to Congress.

My point is that the left should more creatively and loudly call the GOP’s antics what they are. Conspiracies, perhaps; lies and bad but effective political theater for sure.

The cameras did not cut to the live feed when it happened. No one watching knew until it was over who said that.

The picture itself could have been cropped from a larger shot. I’m sure they had cameras on every section inside the room. I do think it would have been interesting to see the video of the event rather than just that one picture. I would like to have seen the response of the two reps sitting next to him in the moments following that outburst.

@56

It’s not conspiracy,it’s confederacy…of dunces.

Of course they knew it was coming. I saw that when it happened.

Well, the picture of the outburst was taken before those next to Wilson really had a chance to react; logistics, my dear sir.

I agree about seeing the entire sequence on video. It would reveal much.

I seem to recall seeing this (video with cuts and times) right after on one of the wrapup shows, but naturally can’t remember which one although probably MSNBC.

Thanks very much for this post and the comments. I was sure it was staged at the time and then felt very uncharitable for thinking that, and for my interpretation of various Repub facial states as smirks. So nice to know I have company.

I am thinking the explanation is far more simple and that is that the Republicans were enraptured with Obama’s presentation and on the verge of voting wholesale for anything he suggested. It was Joe Wilson’s outburst which, thank God, broke the spell and returned them to their freethinking, free-acting selves. No moth to flame action here folks, just move along.
conrad c elledge

Hey, who cares? We’re Democrats, let’s just lay down and let them trample on us. They know we don’t have the spine to stand up and do anything about it. Let them just hijack the conversation.

I just posted about this to the “girls” on The View. Hopefully they’ll do it in HOT TOPICS. It sure does make ya wonder – afterall these guys will do ANYTHING to crush OBAMA.

I think it was staged. The Republicans have been trying, often successfully unfortunately, to upstage Obama’s every move. The Van Jones thing was supposed to do the trick for this speech, but Jones graciously removed himself from the ugliness before it could really take off in the gullible, gutless media. This was designed to mask and obfuscate Obama’s obvious credibility.

I, a woman, was once made the chair of a program. All was well with my male colleagues before that. But once I was in the chair, one man decided to call me a liar at every single thing I said, yelling it at me in hallways and making all my colleagues uncomfortable, especially when they knew I was correct and he was not. People could no longer stand coming to meetings I called, so damage was done to the perfectly neutral agenda we were pursuing. Eventually the accuser was hauled before the head of the department and the attacks ceased, and we were able to resume, though now everyone looked at this man as a true creep.

My point is, these comments had zero basis in fact, and were merely a tactic to spoil my chairmanship, simply because I was a woman. Same with Obama, for the obviously racial reason.

Oh good grief.

The photo shows him shouting, at the moment of doing so. No one reacts that quickly. Those on the podium turned several times, but each time a second after someone shouted, not simultaneously as he did so.

I love it when we progressives become just like Drudge.

I was days ahead of everyone on this. Here’s my post on Ed Schjultz board from Sep. 11 It was easy, for me, to spot their ploy.

I was way ahead of this on everyone, as I usually am.
http://edschultz.invisionzone……opic=52670

Sep 11 2009, 06:34 PM Post #1

Group: Members
Posts: 11,371
Joined: 25-July 05
From: Currently from Arizona, the home state of the 2008 Presidential Runner Up
Member No.: 448

I have come to the conclusion that the outburst by Joe Wilson, when he called the President a liar, was a setup by the Republicans.

They knew that the speech was going top be a blockbuster. They knew that Obama was going to use the speech, and the media discussion afterwards, to push his health bill, and that the American public would fall in line..so they needed a diversion.

Karl Rove probably had his covert finger in the pie…and Joe Wilson was selected as the front man…

And, as we have seen, it worked.

There is, virtually, no discussion of Obama’s speech and the bulk of the media, pretty close to all of it, including the ones at MSNBC, ar all falling for it..and Jow Wilson’soutcry has takenover the media, radio, tv, etc….

DOES ANY AMERICAN REMEMBER OBAMA’S SPEECH?

Another great move by the GOP…. It’s a great move to sacrifice ONE man for the good of the many. Wilson drew the short straw.

To be fair, many Republicans had just been booing Obama on this very point. It was when Obama talked over and talked down their booing that Joe Wilson spoke up. He was just a little bit louder than the booing had been, but if the booing had picked back up, it may just have been lost in the sound.

However, nobody was booing and Wilson was perfectly audible.

So I vote for the “nobody looking because they were embarrassed” option here. The cameras had swung that way already because of the booing. Isolating and clicking on Wilson mid-heckle would be nothing for a talented photographer in that circumstance.

Sometimes accidents happen, and capitalizing on them isn’t proof of it still being an accident. Joe Wilson definitely intended to say what he did. I don’t think that he intended to be so audible and thus the center of controversy. But he was still openly calling the President a liar before a joint session of Congress, trying to get Obama’s goat, making him ANGRY. But it backfired to a certain extent.

“You lie” was intended to see if Obama could be provoked to anger, and failing that was a great way to link “lie” and Obama in the media for several days running. This likely will seem all very mild in the months ahead as they ratchet up their hateful attacks.

While I think that some have valid arguments — the photos may not be proof positive that the outburst was planned — they also don’t address the deeper argument; that the outburst can in some ways be seen as very shrewd politics by the right, and that it’s a tactic that we on the (nominal) left must address.

Whether or not the photos support that thesis is irrelevant. Joe’s neighbors may not be looking because they knew he was going to say it, or they may not be looking because there wasn’t enough time to react, or they may not have been looking because they didn’t want to be the fall guy — none of those options changes the very real possibility that the outburst may have been planned at some levels of the Republican political strategy machine.

And, you have to agree, although Joe Wilson may go down in flames as a result, the outburst was effective: it has snatched attention away from what was REALLY important — the speech itself.

Well, we can sort of file this one under the “captain obvious” heading. That was clearly staged – the GOP came into the speech intending to show they are right proper teabaggers.

Of course it knew. It was clearly planned ahead of time and assigned to faux joe because he would be hailed a hero by his constituents.

As long as the goopers want to play this game, Pelosi should have the Sergeant of Arms stop Wilson from entering until he apologizes. No Apology = No Vote.

Rep. Peter Roskam, an Illinois Republican, sat next to Wilson at Obama’s address. In a widely published photo of Wilson yelling, Roskam is seen leaning into the aisle, physically distancing himself from the South Carolinian.

“I was thoroughly disappointed to hear a member of Congress interrupt the president in that fashion,” Roskam said afterward. …

Rep. Joe Wilson, gentleman lawmaker or lout?
James Rosen – McClatchy Newspapers
Published: Sat, Sep. 12, 2009 06:46PM
http://www.newsobserver.com/15…..86874.html

Knew it was coming.

I don’t how the camera pool is controlled, but it’s a safe bet that a couple of outlets recorded all the iso cameras for b roll. Since all the majors are still union shops, maybe some socialist/commie tape-dog will feel compelled to liberate a dub.

Enhanced Photograph: http://tinyurl.com/JoeWilsonOwesCongressAnApology

“WASHINGTON — Rep. Joe Wilson spent three decades building an image of a courteous political warrior who treated his opponents with the utmost respect even as he disagreed with them.”

I guess Rosen missed his respectful “… you have a visceral hated for America” rejoinder on CSAPN and him smearing Strom’s AA daughter.

Almost as funny as your enhanced photo link – thanks for the laugh

I have wondered about that as well. Surely there are not 535 cameras pointed at each congressdouche?

Chris Matthew’s agrees with you that it was intentional.

Well said.