What’s the point if everyone has had it with Obama?

Obama sold us out.

I missed most of Obama’s homage to bipartisanship, but the whacko who responded ain’t gonna inspire anyone.

Now the dems have to vote down the crap legislation.

Dude! Love that collar!

Fuck, instead of knocking on doors and putting up with shit and now looking like a liar. I could have turned on the boob tube and watched football.

I still have no idea what Obama is/was asking for.

I’m soooo tired of voting for the lesser of evils.

sadlyyes September 9th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
373
In response to Eli @ 360 (show text)

heart surgeon…Aztec?

http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~…..rifice.jpg

Here’s the URL that guy offered in his response. Apparently they think Bush is still President.

Here’s the URL that guy offered in his response. What a joke. Apparently they think Bush is still President.

http://healthcare.gop.com/GroupPage.aspx?

Olbermann confirming Joe Wilson (R-SC) shouted “You lie!”

How does a censure start, exactly?

Last time I got to vote FOR someone was for Teddy K. It’s been a while.

Obama’s willing to take my right shoe, Odor Eater still in it, and sign it — as long as I put a ”Health Care Bill” PostIt note on it.

Is the Gopper’s response being life streamed and if so where?

I haven’t. It was a fine speech.

I feel like I should go back to all the doors I knocked on in November and apologize.

what did you think of the speech,and his plan?

Keith Obermann dared called the speech one of greatness if I heard him correctly.

It’s already over. No there there.

Now now. Censure isn’t necessary. They could also, for example, expel him.

Obama’s willing to take my right shoe, Odor Eater still in it, and sign it — as long as I put a ”Health Care Bill” PostIt note on it. And it doesn’t raise the deficit by a dime.

Yeah, glad he kissed us before he boned us.

So, what did he say?

Sucks don’t it.

2008 was the first time I voted lessor of evils for president. I worked to elect the lessor evil. Never thought I’d be done after the election – a lessor evil is still evil.

When I was in Italy in June during the European parlimentary elections there were 18 parties on the ballot. Now that’s choice.

….Yes, your Highness…. No, your Highness… No, your Highness… Yes, your Highness… Of course, your Highness… Yes, your Highness…

Talk is cheap. Enough wiggle wroom for an elephant to squeeze through.

check out this wiki on wilson:

Joe Wilson

Member of the U.S. House of Representatives
from South Carolina’s 2nd district

Addison Graves Wilson, Sr.(born July 31, 1947) is Republican politician from the U.S. state of South Carolina, currently representing the state’s 2nd congressional district (map), in the U.S. House of Representatives. The district is based in the state capital, Columbia, and stretches to the resort towns of Beaufort and Hilton Head Island. He is a douchebag that called the President of the United States a liar on national television and has no respect for the office he holds.

I just sent this email to Congressman Joe Wilson regarding his shout during the speech:

Congressman Wilson,

There really is nothing that can be said about your shameful performance tonight. Please resign your seat immediately. Decency demands it. There simply is no room for such behavior in the chamber in which our laws are discussed and crafted.

There is an email function on his web site. It’s kinda slow tonight. Think he’s getting some traffic?

“Pelosi and Reid need to start over from scratch”

Not so much. They still end up with Berlusconi. You think things are bad here!

ROFLMAO.

tort reform. Then again, he’s been sued for malpractice 3 times though he didn’t happen to mention that.

Just sent my third e-mail of the day to the WH. Said I still had no idea what the President stands for.

“a touch of greatness” about it, iirc.
KO’s been holding OB’s feet to the fire the last few weeks. I suspect he hasn’t really changed his mind.
Can’t wait for Rachel!

FWDiva

I think this was the worst speech I’ve seen from the President. I don’t want to be cynical too much; we have to change our disappointment into action–even if that means killing this bill and stopping Obama from getting a second term. This guy used the Lincoln Bible to swear himself in. He’s doesn’t even qualify as Lincoln’s sock sweat if he can’t fight like we need him too.

But then Italy has the 2nd best health care in the world and the food, the food. American’s eat swill.

My gawd – he actually put that out over the air?

Not that many people were likely listening or likely to follow up.

Or those who do won’t care – they’re living in their own fantasy world.

Sherrod Brown, whom I normally like a lot, is sounding somewhat delusional.

“Greatest speech I’ve ever heard”. “Republicans will vote for it, because they don’t want to have to explain to their children and grandchildren that they were on the wrong side of history.”

right.

I am still unclear on what Obama really wants. Sounded wishy washy to me. It was more of I want this but I am open to anything else. I’ve been very critical of Obama but hell,on this one I am not even sure he sold us out. Sounded more like “I gotta give a speech cuz my numbers are tanking and so gimme a speech I can give to Congress.” Whatever.

He was asking for more compromise so that he can continue to compromise away any and everything liberals believe in (because it’s more important to get along with Republicans than to stand for something that the people who elected him desperately want).

SO, nothing new or substantative.

Why am I not surprised??!!.

Shit Jim, they’ll give him a fucking medal in goober land.

Really? Are you completing the entry, or has it already been done?
Funny, if it’s the latter…

R plan=your heirs can’t sue your doc when he carves out your heart and throws it in the biohazard bad.

ooh, I like it!

PBO has become mired in healthcare reform and is now attempting to extricate himself with the smallest loss of face he can muster, irrespective of whether viable reform results or not. That’s about all we got.

Aren’t ALL birthers essentially calling the Prez a liar?

Wonder if Wilson is a birther?

Guess Boustany is calling the Prez a liar,too..Boustany is a birther.

It was there, I grabbed it because I’m sure it’ll get changed.

good speech I think (the President’s, not that of his Lordship).

I need to know how this cost control review panel will be empowered. I still believe that the cost control mechanism has to be intrinsic to the plan’s design.. not some third party commission. Overall, he gave interesting proposals which I think I need to think about (and would urge all of us to do the same). I still think we need the PO.

Talk is cheap.

So is knee-jerk criticism.

Oh, and it shouldn’t surprise anyone that a guy like Rep. Wilson would be so eager to attack a black president — he is a member, along with Patrick Buchanan and Orval Faubus, of the Sons of Confederate Veterans:

In 2002, the SCV was criticized in the media and by a group of SCV dissenters for the SCV’s views of Civil War history and the organization’s alleged association with neo-confederate individuals and organizations. Joe Conason, writing in Salon, and Jason Zengerle, writing in The New Republic, have argued that the SCV has morphed from an apolitical organization dedicated to Civil War history to a politicized organization dedicated to preserving the “Lost Cause” version of the history of the Civil War and the 1861-1865 era.[20] The SCV states that “[t]he preservation of liberty and freedom was the motivating factor in the South’s decision to fight the Second American Revolution”.[3]

Civil War historian James M. McPherson has associated the SCV with the neo-confederate movement and described board members of the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond, Virginia as “undoubtedly neo-Confederate.” He further said that the SCV and their equivalent for female descendants, the United Daughters of the Confederacy (UDC), have “white supremacy” as their “thinly veiled agendas.” [21] The incident made McPherson a controversial figure among Confederate history groups and prompted a UDC boycott call and letter-writing campaign against him. In response to this boycott, McPherson stated that he did not mean to imply that all SCV or UDC chapters or anyone who belongs to them promote white supremacist agenda. He further stated that [only] some of these people have a hidden agenda.[22]

from either Obama or Lord B . . .

YMMV but I didn’t hear anything new.

his surgeries

http://faculty.umf.maine.edu/~…..rifice.jpg

Don’t know about Italian medical care, and whether that is or isn’t related to the government. If it’s as good as you say, then Berlusconi must be trying hard to dismantle it. As for the food, it’s in the Italian genes, not in their politics.

Ah yes, but the French: tops in both categories, health care and food!

LOL!

Or eats it as a tasty midnight snack, yum yum.

Heaven……..is ITALIA….that is all

Valerie Jarrett up now…
For extra WH rah-rah

FWDiva

Was Wilson’s shout out the symbolic first shot of the 2nd Civil War?

I’m sure it’ll get change but mucho kudos to you for catching it. Did you do a screen shot? (Or whatever it’s called.)

Berlusconi.

Owning the media works out.

It even provides a mistress or two.

Yup — and he’s also a Neo-Confederate, so of course he has a problem showing respect to a black man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S…..e_Veterans

olive oil vs butter

A-yep: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S…..e_Veterans

I have a couple of venison hearts that I gave to friends who claim they know how to prepare them. I’m awaiting the dinner invite.

Yea, I downloaded it as an HTML file.

Mmmm- I would like to see it before I die. And eat while there…mangia, mangia, mangia! Si, si, si…

2nd only to France. Another single payer success story. Berlosconni is seen as a clown but then when you control the media even a clown can be elected.

What a witty and insightful point you make there. Really one for the ages. I’m having it engraved.

Used to call them Dixie Crats…before they became Republicans about 40 or so years ago.

Rereading King of the Mountain by Arnold Ludwig. One of the perks of being a ruler is access to many women. Berlusconi is a piker by standards of 20th C rulers.

what’s his position on his governor? or on the Appalachian Trail to Buenos Aires?

I signed up just to react to tonight’s speech. What is with this “public option that only the destitute can sign up for”? Would that actually work??

Obama’s speech was pretty good. He came swinging against the conspiracy theories. Besides, I think it fulfilled its goal, recharging the Dems.

Anyone listening to MSNBC? Did I just hear Valerie Jarret confirm that Obama is for a trigger on the public option?

Kewl.

Lots of exploding heads here tonight all for naught.

R plan: Keep the subsidies that make the bill so expensive in the first place, but please remove one of the main cost-savings measures (public option).

I actually think the idea of being able to buy insurance across state lines has some merit, at least if it doesn’t result in one or two companies monopolizing the whole country. But I don’t see how one could easily do that, especially without encroaching upon Republicans’ ostensible unshakable belief in states’ rights.

Sure it works, it add to insurance company bottom lines. What else matters?

that wasn’t a plan. they don’t have a plan. just a plea for incrementalism.

After reading most of the comments in these last two threads, why the outrage at Wilson?

There were definitely some priceless ass-on-hands moments for Republicans this evening. For that alone I think this speech was a wise move on O’s part.

Rhetorical Q? We tend to be snarky here, so let me remember my manners and say “Welcome.”

The A to your Q is that it remains to be seen. I doubt that would be sufficient, but let us not forget the Law of Unintended Consequences. Perhaps we could hope for the camel’s nose under the tent?

I will never vote for Obama again. I wish I had the skillset to leave the US and NEVER come back.

No, they have a plan, it just doesn’t include competition for insurance companies. It’s pretty clear who they’re working for.

So did this speech sound like change we can believe in? Does anyone think that any of this will result in a good healthcare bill? Does anyone think Obama showed real leadership this evening?

what are “insurance exchanges”? Co-ops?

Wait, I thought I just saw the republican side. Obama delivered it himself. Fuck the public option, all your money are belong to insurance companies, John McCain had great ideas, etc. Well now I’m really confused.

Psst, Obama: If I wanted John McCain’s ideas I would have voted for John McFuckingCain, you coward.

The “Liar” shout was from a South Carolina Congresssman.

Maybe we should have nuked South Carolina in the Civil War.

A neo-confederate.

Wow. I thought I was up on such groups…

Have you noticed how many RW’s are posting comments (on their own sites and as trolls) about how “sick” they are of being called racist….
can’t imagine why that’s happening so much.

I will admit that many people are unconscious racists – it takes really searching one’s heart/soul sometimes to realize the depth of prejudice (in the most literal sense) we have internalized.
I started at age 15, during the civil rights movement, thanks to some leadership by my (Lutheran) church, and I’m still working on it.

Is it that hard to move to Canada?

Anybody see Kucinich?

Health Care is a Civil Right! His latest slogan. Nice ring.

as I heard it, the president (as we knew he would) is leaving the real PO alone.. not commenting on it, really. Which is unfortunate but not unexpected. What he seemed to be saying is that no matter what there needs to be a minimum PO, servicing about 5% and presenting a government choice, no matter what.

I wasn’t paying lots of attention to her spin,

I think Obama’s open for anything that passes.And we know that Rham’s the player that counts.

As I understand the R’s wanting across state border medical insurance is to gut the states’ oversight, the only regulation that exists. And to create a nationwide cartel of medical insurance corps that will determine medical policy far into the future, to the benefit of their shareholders.

Personally?
No. To all of your questions.
Very discouraging.
FWDiva

Here’s my email to my Congresswoman:

Dear Madame Speaker:

As your constituent, I would like to know what specific steps you as Speaker will take against Congressman Joe Wilson (R-SC) for his extraordinarily rude and ungentlemanly outburst on the floor of the House this evening when President Barack Obama spoke to all of you and the nation about the moral imperative to pass comprehensive, universal health care immediately.

You made Pete Stark apologize on the floor of the House in 2007. What action will you take against Congressman Wilson, whose actions shame us all?

Thank you for your service to California and to the United States of America.

Sincerely,

Yep. It’s gone from wikipedia

Editing of this article by new or unregistered users is currently disabled due to vandalism.
See the protection policy and protection log for more details. If you cannot edit this article and you wish to make a change, you can request an edit, discuss changes on the talk page, request unprotection, log in, or create an account.

No, No and No.

I can’t bear to rewind and listen again. Maybe later?

At least I have all y’all here at the Lake, so I don’t feel so alone.

FWDiva

Yes, I do.

Here is a clip of Republican Joe Wilson yelling LIAR!!!

http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=2855

Yes. And it’s too close. I was thinking New Zealand. I want to be VERY far away from this shithole.

I’m pretty sure she confirmed that he’s for a 4 year trigger.

no. they already exist. It’s how some big corporations buy packaged insurance plans for their emps. the president wants to broaden that way of buying insurance to individuals…. make it a retail instead of a wholesale thing. I’m going to have to think about how that would work and whether I think it will work.

So you keep asking that and I assume you just can’t wait for someone to say yes huh?

It amounts to “Open enrollment” for everyone. You as an individual can shop for health insurance.

Wonder what it’s worth on ebay? :)

I thought the Republicans came out of tonite looking pretty bad, indeed. Sat on their hands, waving sheets of paper like idiots.

I suggest she utilize her wing nutcracker, aka gavel.

Elizabeth Edwards liked the speech, can we cook up some nasty shit to say about her?

No, he’s not a leader. He’s a product of our times, unfortunately. This is bigger than Obama and not entirely his fault. We’re a corporate state and the people are serfs and fodder for these corporations and the aristocracy they find useful.

I did. Now waiting to be “eviscerated.”

Here’s Robert Kaiser’s answer at the WaPo0 chat just now:

San Francisco, CA: Has any President ever been greeted by a House member shouting “You lie!” as Joe Wilson, GOP of South Carolina, did tonight to President Obama?

Is this grounds for censure by his fellow House members?

Robert G. Kaiser: Not to my knowledge, and yes.

Thanks for the welcomes and replies! I was only being semi-rhetorical cuz I didn’t want to get off on wrong foot by being too snarky. Honestly, I was awfully confused with the way he phrased his comments about the PO; seemed to imply that employee-insured would be INELIGIBLE. Ugh.

that will work well.

My contractor, who’s worked for me since 1989, sez NZ is the bestest. (He’s a pink diaper baby, but usually has a fair amount of intelligence for his opinions.) However, he sez you are not allowed to immigrate unless you can show that you will not be a drain on the govt of NZ. I.E., poor need not apply.

and how’s he going to prevent them from jacking up rates and profits in the interim as they milk us dry in return for a mad frenzy of short-term profit-taking? for insurers, that’s like telling them that the world is going to end in 4 years and to go ahead and loot away for the duration.

Rep Joe Wilson of S. C. has either had his web site taken down or it has crashed since TPM posted a link to it. I wanted to get on it and demand that he apologize to the president if he was the one who called out “you lie” during the President’s speech.

I’m sure he’ll be some martyr on faux news and limpb___s tomorrow.

Rahm will just tell her it would be fucking stupid to censure Wilson.

So for the Obama supporters out there, what will it take for you to abandon this man? Do you have any lines in the sand? How long can he continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, screw up the economy, claim vast Presidential powers, and sell out to the insurance, medical, and drug companies before you say enough is enough? Or are there no such lines for you?

New post

Gee, I don’t even remember hearing about that.

So, Congress better get busy – there’s a lot more to make R’s apologize for than just Wilson tonight.

Anything I can do to show you the door? Please call on me to help you out. Your leaving will lower my health insurance costs.

The pundits and liberal pols seem to be giving the speech good reviews.

I think financial self-sufficiency is a prerequisite to immigrate to any of the countries an average disenchanted American might find palatable.

Raises in medical insurance premiums, high double digits, denial rates in the 1/3 region as just became public in CA, and possibly sizable cutbacks in employers’ offering medical benefits will make the situation really dire a year or two from now. Meanwhile, if anything is passed this year, it’ll be weak tea. Not at all commensurate with the size of the problem.

He’s a member of these guys:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S…..e_Veterans

Just what exactly does “abandon him” mean? I realize you are really smart but what do you expect people do do?

So, Hugh – I really admired your work during the Bush admin, but – do you think H. Clinton or my god, McCain would have been better?

Yeah, I’m disappointed, but I’m not turning and fleeing yet.

si si si

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t…..RL6-KHCisg

Never thought about it, but wouldn’t be surprised.

You don’t have to have an alternative to be disgusted with the status quo. In fact, if you support an inadequate status quo, you’re part of the problem imo. The only way change can occur, if it can, is to protest and keep working for something that’s reasonable.

I love Canada and I hope to visit again, and I would especially like to get some of their excellent health care. But NO! NO ! NO!, I am not leaving and I am not surrendering. I might be the last hippy dippy lefty lib. But I will still fight against the corporate neo-con rot that has control of this potentially great country. At least until the Republican assholes terminate me.

I’m with you. I was not impressed with the speech. Were there some good things in the speech? Yes, but the public option portion of the speech was very disappointing, as I expected it would be.

Can I understand the inanity and prejudgement of the comments tonite, on this or any of the previous postings tonight?

The planet I’m living on, I saw Barack Obama at his best, actually doing his job as the #1 salesman for reform, giving an animated and logical presentation that shouldn’t have been too hard for any grandma to comprehend, defending some fairly deep parameters of reform.

OK I already explained to my family last night how it’ll be up to us to yell and scream for a decent public option, yet I am darn thankful for a heartfelt sales job on behalf of the principle of a public opinion by the man in the bully pulpit. He strongly advanced the cause of a real actual public option by his good sales job (despite, or because of, not threatening veto, leaving some details vague, claiming to be open to compromise, etc. I’ve been in sales for 25 years, careful vagueness is a selling tool.) He did not screw up those of us ready to really fight for a good public option.

He was selling tonite, and he was good. Real reform may actually be on the way, especially if the left could organized and get serious and get pressuring the Congress-critters for the best reforms available.

If you gotta be cynical, you gotta have something more than your own catty feelings to go on. It’s not ruled out that he could sell out the public option in a final bill, yet he is now firmly and deeply committed to a fairly strong bill that would objectively be an improvement over the present situation, and I think he did a good job of selling it to grandma. If you fear him selling out the public option in the future, it’s time for to get organized in pressuring your Congress-critters to prevent that.

To get snarky and inane is a dis-service to yourself, and whatever higher ideals you may think you’re upholding.

And you can question it when some starts throwing up all kinds of YOUin his rant.

I would actually like to know at what point you would consider withdrawing your support from Obama.

Wilson’s wiki entry has now been locked from editing “due to vandalism.”

It does now, however, mention his outburst.

I don’t care any more. I’m not a young man. If I get sick, I’m going to die. The US is an empire in decline, the Visigoths are on the horizon and I don’t have any fight left in me. Helping get that republican asshole (who spoke like a democrat) elected is my life’s greatest failing. I should have seen through it.

I want the US to fall. We should have let the Confederacy secede.

Might try selecting a handful of people you trust with Twitter accounts and watching their feeds during events like tonight’s speech.

Not only do many of the people we consider our progressive heroes have a different and more upbeat take, they are funnier than hell, have been laughing my ass off reading their tweets.

That’s not to say they haven’t been pointedly critical — but they manage to encapsulate their critiques clearly and succinctly given the 140 character limit.

And the drubbing they’ve given both Joe Wilson and the rest of the GOP? amazing. Feels good to read such feisty rapid-fire and well-earned blowback.

At least one tweet tonight I read came from a Republican woman who said she was cheering the POTUS in spite of being a Repub. Heartening. If only we can convince people like her to smack up their Congresspersons…

I don’t think everything here expressing doubt in Dear Leader Obama is inane. I find that word overused on blogs. And yes, I’ll keep active to pressure people on the PO. But it’s quite right to question Dear Leader’s sentiment and candor when he can’t actually reveal the content of his negotiations with CEO’s of Phrma and big insurance in general.

No, they need to take HR676 as is and pass it.

Rayne, for better or for worse, I know no one with a Twitter account, at least anyone who has admitted the fact to me. In fact, no person I know has ever actually mentioned Twitter, positively or negatively, in any kind of conversation, reference, or aside (and I do work at a large retail facility, a lot of employees and a lot of public).

Just remember folks this guy is a birther

As I’ve stated elsewhere: This has nothing to do with the Republicans.

They are now just a distraction and an excuse for Obama.

This has been, is, and always will be about the corporations asserting their power.

And this is before Sotomayer chimes in with the SCOTUS wingnuts to vastly expand that power next week or the week after.

Know your enemy.

As for Obama’s speech… kabuki.

Obama did a few things that he should have done weeks ago… that don’t mean a damn thing from the corporate angle.

Obama deliberately left the path wide open for the corporations to loot the country as per their demands before this all started.

And that is all.

Not that you asked me, but if Health Reform truly is botched — i.e. nothing more than a giant giveaway to the Ins. companies, with mandates but no effective cost controls or regulation, I’d stop supporting Obama. I’ve already stopped donating to all Democratic funding organizations (ActBlue excepted) over this issue.

But that leaves the question of what is a viable, actionable alternative at this point? A third party candidate?

I’d like to know what you really have to say on that point, because simply “withdrawing support” doesn’t really mean shit in the real world.

there is the HEART of the problem… seems like if there was more “competition” within our government, aka: more parties then it wouldn’t always be about choosing the ‘lesser evil.’

I can’t believe the GOP selected Representative Boustany to give the rebuttal to President Obama:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/georg…..-time.html

Now that Teddy is gone, let us not forget that politics is about what is possible.

hold that thought.

If John McCain was there now, many of us would not have front doors to be knocked upon.