ZED!!
And No Trolls allowed!!

Evening ES how goes it my friend?

Hey, ES
Hey, Nahant!

Trollz gone home yet?

FWDiva

The troll is way downstairs and a few pups are still arguing with it.

ES! hi you all

Lets hope he was tiring with his Pretzel logic!
Hi ya Pups Hope all of ya are doing great!!

Aloha ES!!! From EPU-land…

Obama was great tonite, but, I didn’t like what he was saying… However, I did like the phrase… “…the term Pre-Existing Condition will be a thing of the past…” That was about it tho….! 8-(

Tainted love.. oooo ooh oh.

Good evening

Mary J Blige – No More Drama

I wonder.. will they make it illegal for insurance companies to even ask such questions?

Which troll, tbsa?

Oh! Tainted love…

Now that would be great if you still want them to be in business. Me I hope they all go Bankrupt and all the fat cvat lose all their millions and have to go to the back of the line for health care… just saying..

Helloooo all of youse!

Also EPU’d, CTuttle:

Well, the onliest thing he could say that would make me happy would have been all the good stuff about the moral imperatives involved and followed it with, “And therefore, pass HR 676 and send it to my desk.”

They’d better dump that bs clause that Baucus was pushing of making everybody buying some sorta Insurance with stiff fines of $750/ind. and $4800/fam. That needs to be the first to go…!

Cretin or something like that. He was pissed about “illegal aliens” (his term not mine) still being able to get medical attention.

How true indeed, BCT…! ;-)

Hi CE, I can’t believe Gloria Jones is still kicking.. living in Sierra Leone and building a music school.

You know my motto… kill insurance companies.

From one of my music heroes, Todd Rundgren “Love Is The Answer”

I forget the question, but who cares? :)

No it will be very imporatant for them to figure out what to charge. and when enrolment is compulsory, they can make up whatever they want.

[hee hee - cretin, our pet name for it.]

Hello everyone… whats cookin?

I don’t know.. I am planning on paying the fine. Beats paying private people thousands for thousands more in deductibles.

No mandates, without P.O. And no damn triggers. (For po folk, deductibles are triggers too)

Here is the latest medical update…..

felt like shit for weeks, nausea & vomiting, diarrhea. Hardly eating and sleeping for hours……

Ok here is what we found….. extremely anemic…. 8.2 (Hgb normal is above 10),
pelvic radiation may have destroyed the normal GI bacteria (on drugs to replace them.

Total body bone scan was negative. Dr Wong saw a faint shadow in the left hip but would not use this scan to diagnosis the tumor.

Actually feel better this evening, not bad for chemo day

Having my follow up CT scans tomorrow evening (7ish)

Body aches all over….. probably due to anemia as there is a lack of blood and oxygen to the extremities.

Tomorrow, 2 units of blood …. beware for those lurking vampires….

I’d like to see the fat cats take it on the chin, but, many of their employees can be easily transitioned into handling the new paperwork/distobution, et.al. of whatever the sausage grinder churns out….!

unfrtunately, for them to go bankrupt under they plans they are proposing, we will all have to go bankrupt first.

:) I’ve never seen that one here before.

Rep Wilson has already apologized to President Obama.

He should next get the opportunity to apologize to his colleagues in the House from the well of the House, after Speaker Pelosi has called for his formal censure.

Im planning to be the first “hardsip waiver”

Dang, Katy, I truly feel for ya…! *g*

Wow! It is really late– looking at Jimmie Fallon.

Evening WB… whatever is on your mind.. welcome to LLN.

10-4, good buddy. Haven’t been on a thread with trolls for quite some time, so forgot about their not-care and their not-feeding.

The temptation to smite is OH so overwhelming though, ain’t it? :)

Heh, Good for Rep. Wilson… He shouldn’t wear his heart(brain?) on his sleeve…! ;-)

Sorry you are feeling so rough.

I’ll be right there with you.. we stay up late.. so we should have a good position in line. *s*

Crunchy little buggers, eh…? Reminds me of chocolate covered crickets…! ;-)

The troll downstairs was spewing Wilson talking points as if it were his daddy. I honestly do not know how they talk about compassion but don’t give a rats ass about anyone but themselves.
IMO censure is not enough. If we can sit through bush anything is possible. It goes to the lack of respect for the office. He should go!

YUP!!
They made enough money off of peoples suffering for several life times worth!!

I found Joe Wilson’s home phone number. They changed the message so it sounded like his campaign office, but you can get through with no problem. I politely asked him to resign. Maybe his wife will encourage him to do so if they get enough messages.

why don’t we make a list and we can submit them all at once….. mary, katymine, solerso, ES and probably about another 100 more…… loose my standard insurance end of November 2009…..

Hey ES, what did you think?

My Dad said, it’s better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you’re a fool than to open it and confirm it for them.

Apparently the Rules of the House forbid members to call the President a liar, even in the course of debate. I’d say that calling him a liar in joint session rises to the level of censure.

Crunchy is a good word; I’m preferrin “crusty” though. :)

Good news about the bone scan, at least. My vegetarian friends tell me that not having the right GI bacteria can make digestion a very unpleasant experience. Here’s hoping for a happy new colony of bacteria.

About that there “regressive tax.” I think that the Progressive Caucus should call it that, a “regressive tax” and make the Rethuglicans line up against it.

It’d be one way to make them do something useful, no?

Well, the House does have the power to expel him. But if it happens, it would happen on a party line vote.

I’m up for that, but I’m not sure how it would play with the center. I’m a reasonable person, which means I’m much to the left of center.

Censure is only a paper tiger, an illusory punishment that amounts to a warm pot of spittle… Ptooey…! ;-)

But the Republics think regressive taxes are the best kind of taxes.

(((Katy)))

Call Wilson at home and ask him to resign: *********

Mod note: Please do not post anyones ***** personal information. Thank you.

Absolutely.

Acidopholus is an excellent flora/fauna for the GI tract…!

katymine’s point about them paying taxes is a good one. They pay sales taxes. Many pay income taxes (anyone who has a legit job, I suspect). They put money into the economy. While I don’t necessarily think they should be welcome here, I don’t mind if they get services when they really need them. What are we supposed to do, let them die when they get injured on the job?

Your anemia could be related to your kidneys and radiation treatment. The kidneys produce erythropoietin which signals the body to produce more red blood cells. The more likely cause for your body aches is reaction to your nausea and vomiting. I assume your electrolytes have been measured and are OK, but you could be dehydrated. It could also be a reaction to a new drug.

*oof* That’s a naughty thing to do, WB…! Home Phone, even…!

Can you even imagine what would have happened had a dem done that to bush. His ass would have been expelled before that speech was over. I’d like to think I am reasonable but there is NO possibility that I am moving even a tiny bit more to the right. You’ve got to stand for something….

Hey, I’d vote for shunning him. I’d vote for expelling him. As somebody said, “Politics is the art of the possible.” Censure may be a warm pot of spit, but it’s possible.

But we don’t allow recall of Federal officials, and I’m not the least bit sure that his batshit crazy constituents would vote to recall him if they could.

Does that include meat digestors? Of course, even getting the other kind is good if you don’t have any…

Fact is, they do get care. They just walk into an emergency room. The downside is that it is paid for through higher health care costs for everyone else.

going to take my nausea meds and go read my book …. Love the ability to read again….

I am with you. They live among us, why in the hell would we deny them healthcare. The republics prefer to act as though they are not here. As a matter of National Security we can not go there.

Well the man called my President a liar and heckled him. That is pretty skuzzy.

Hard to believe they would when they put him there in the first place. If he were accused of corruption, that might happen (assuming it were possible at all), but they must know what they’re getting by now.

I don’t want to work…just want to bang on me drum all day!!

FWDiva

Feel Better!

That’s assuming they’d recognize corruption if it happened right in front of them.

the republics don’t even acknowledge their humanity

I’ve called him a con artist – as recently as yesterday. I didn’t do it on the floor of the Congress, and not over something he was clearly not lying about. Being both wrong and disruptive makes things a hell of a lot worse, IMHO.

I glanced at the NYT frontpage. They seem to be spinning the Obama speech. Sheryl Gay Stolberg and Robert Pear two of the Times more notable nitwits had stories about how Obama presented details (Stolberg) and had not changed his stance much since last year (Pear). Chimpanzees flinging pooh would do a better job of reporting than these two.

Well, glad you’re feeling better.
If I was in the neighborhood, I’d donate for you. Best I can do is just donate here in my area. I’m O-neg, so they loooove me at the blood center…

FWDiva

Night all…

Naw, Obama will probably invite him over for a beer.

Sometimes DoJ can. Otherwise, I’m sure William Jefferson, Ted Stevens, and Duke Cunningham would still be in office.

going to take my nausea meds…

Smoke a joint…! ;-)

So sorry, Mod, you’re right.

Don’t listen to me; I’m Just Another Onion Head. :)

Aloha, tbsa and Katy…!

Goodnight, katymine and tbsa.

I am taking it 3 x day and do feel better, at least I’m not sitting here with a hospital bath pan instead of the computer :)

Dr Wong and my nurse friend have reviewed pretty much everything. First is to get the HCT back up to near normal and the acidophilus. See if I improve and then go back to see what we can improve it.

I’m glad to hear the update. ((Katy))

as I posted on the previous thread, this guy’s a real winner. In 2002 he accused Filner (D-CA) of harboring a “visceral” “hatred of America” and in 2005 he called Pelosi and Waxman terrorists and accused Dems of waging “a guerilla war against American troops” for daring to (rather timidly if I recall) suggest that maybe torture isn’t a good idea. He also introduced legislation last year to create state defense forces – basically, regional armies, in the US. I guess to support his governor’s vision of secession. He’s genuinely special.

oh.. and it looks like his congressional website is down. All the hatemail must’ve crashed it.

707!!! Hey, Hugh…! Did you already start a list for Obama…? ;-)

DoJ didn’t put Wilson into office. At least, I don’t think they did.

Mother Nature’s best remedy with little or no side effects & as a bonus you get the munchies!! So you get double benefit of a little pot… besides the high is relaxing(:>))

So true… since he is clearly not progressive.

I have an Obama list with 74 items. I have one I think on healthcare but to tell the truth I haven’t had the heart to write it up like I should.

What a maroon!

– B. Bunny, circa 1936.

Still on point today.

someone actually did a seminal diary where pups can post when they give blood in my name, so far since March I have had 9 units (including tomorrows two) and there was 6 or so last year.

I’m O-positiive but I appreciate any donations

Oh…
MODS:
this phone # shouldn’t stay up here.
I understand the impetus, but it’s really bad form, and I don’t want the Lake getting in trouble.

FWDiva

O-neg is the universal lubricant…! ;-)

I’ve been turned down a few times within the last five years at my local Blood Bank… I’ve been given too many indeterminate shots during my 20 yrs of Army service and they’re extremely leery of it…!

Uh-oh, 74 items already…? Dang, Obama’s been busy over those first 100 days, eh…? ;-)

It’s been deleted. Just hit reload (F5) and it should go away.

If ya refresh ya’ll see that Lurk or RBG is already on it…! ;-)

They removed it, FWD. WordBloom didn’t know.. it’s all good now.

Perfectly reasonable.

OH forgot….. today is my parents 65 year anniversary…. 9/9/09

Dad picked up Mom on a train and three weeks later they were married. 65 years later Dad still works at Habitat for Humanity at 86 yrs old and still thinks my Mom is quite a chick…..

I jokingly mentioned on a Jane thread this morning… we need a Hugh’s List of triggers. There are just so many now.

That’s neat!

That’s awesome…! Congrats! That reminds me that me and the better half make 20 yrs first week of Oct…!

But you can still call his office right? ;)

Send them Congratulations from all of us Katy!! And what a great story about their meeting(:>))

That’s too cool for school, Katy.

Btw, what is the 20 yr material…?

But of course. The Constitution guarantees us all the right to petition our government for the redress of grievances.

Well, I am the Emperor of the Highway!

FWDiva

We have ours 18th on Oct 17th!! Loma Preita day and the day the Berkley fire broke out in the Hills..

I saw it posted elsewhere as being his home office. Hope that’s the case.

Seems to me he owes the citizens of the US an apology for insulting their president. If the shoe were on the other foot, we’d be hearing that 24/7, and no apology would be good enough.

China.

The alternative isn’t a whole lot better: Platinum.

Heh, and the right to rebel as well…! ;-)

Did they meet while he was training? (2009 – 65 = 1944)

Sshish… Platinum is way outta my league…! Sterling silver is even a tad steep…! ;-)

The only downside on that right is that you have to win.

Better disconnect the intertubes at home, then. That’s where I got the info.

Did some digging. Turns out it was just his campaign office.

Aloha, Sunny…

If the shoe were on the other foot, we’d be hearing that 24/7, and no apology would be good enough.

Sad, but, true…!

Dad was a recovering wounded WWII Marine and from knowing my Mom, she was this naive sweetheart and in walked in one big Marine to protect her…… btw Dad looked like John Wayne when he was young, we lost the picture in the fire. They were married on Treasure Island which is in the middle of the SF Bay….

To me, it was a fairytale story…

I can just imagine the Hugh Scroll of Triggers unrolling…

But seriously, I have been thinking for a few months now, as this whole Healthcare thing has rolled out, we have 3 more years left of agenda/sausage processing, and the top items for Progressives have been sort of rolled flat, air taken out of them, to be polite.

So what do we do as Progressives? Forget whatever happens with healthcare. I do not expect to be happy at all, so I’m proceeding from that point.

What do we do next? I don’t care to be rolled, and I don’t want to hand the whole shebang over to the republicans again.

I’m just thinking out loud, but I think some beyond-legislative actions need to be planned. Actions on big trad-media for one. Because there are more battles to be had in the next three years, and we need to not be all surprised.

I say we need to SET the agenda.

Yes, you are!

well. Sanford did flirt with secessionist claptrap over stimulus funding right? and Wilson wanted to give Sanford a regional army to fight with. These people really are something. Ironically, Wilson appears to represent Hilton Head and Beaufort. I don’t know too much about SC but those two places struck me as being at least marginally literate.

Remember when Bush stood before both Houses and went on and on about weapons of mass destruction. Even then, no one was low enough to heckle him.

Primary the incalcitrant DINO’s arses…! That’s about the extent of it…! 8-(

Dad was the last class to go through the 6 month Marine boot then they shorten it. Thankfully he was so well trained….. it is probably THE reason he survived the Tarawa battle second wave (most marines lost)

It is very reason why he turned against Vietnam in 1965, his comment is those boys are dying because of their piss-poor training (sounds like a marine)

If progressives don’t set the agenda, I’m afraid that this White House would settle for some pretty low expectations.

Sure is Katy (:>)) And I know where Treasure Island is… seeing as I live near the Bay… Which reminds me CalTrans did one hell of a job making the changes and fixing the cracked I beam in Time for Tuesday’s rush hour… They pulled a small miracle off if you ask me…
Oh yeah you have to take the Bay Bridge if ya want to get to Treasure Island!!

It’s amazing to me how many romances started out that way back then, and then lasted so long. Congratulations to them.

They may be literate, but, they’re woefully misinformed…! Faux Spew’s Heartland…!

Well, I’ve got to run for a bit…! Caio for now…! ;-)

I agree that this works for 2010 – but I’m saying that we need to take a longer view to set agenda and frame arguments.

On the other hand, it’s the soldiers involved in the first battles who seem to need it more. Tarawa was one of the first landings, They didn’t know the terrain well enough. I knew a guy who was sent to Korea in the early days. He and two other guys were the only survivors from his company.

Anyway, amazing your father survived and got to meet your mom.

ok… can’t wait any longer for nausea meds….. don’t know if I will be here tomorrow…. blood starts at 7pm….. 2hrs each unit ….

So what do we do as Progressives? Forget whatever happens with healthcare. I do not expect to be happy at all, so I’m proceeding from that point.

What do we do next?

Sanders for president.

Happy Blood Getting… feel better!

That is the longer view, Kelly.

Think globally, act locally. If Americans weren’t quite such not-invented-here fools about political systems, we could push for a constitutional amendment to get rid of the insane first-past-the-post system we have for elections. No system cannot be gamed, but first-past-the-post is open to too much gaming. An instant runoff (technically, single transferable vote) system is much less subject to gaming. But we’d never get a constitutional amendment through Congress to institute it: it might make minor parties really viable alternatives.

We’ve got to replace all of these so-called Democrats with better Democrats.

I’m off to bed. I had a rehearsal tonight and couldn’t catch the responses to President Obama’s speech until late.

Now I’ve got an early class and a long day tomorrow. Hooray for me!

Cool. Hadn’t caught up yet.
FWDiva

Im all for removing blue dogs. Heres what im worried about now, well for several weeks now, when they go to vote on a plan, probably by december, its going to be a huge complicated mess. we will have to hire lawyers (or voluteer some of those smart folks) to go over it fine tooth style. we cant just plan primaries, there will be real major points of contetion and we are dealing with our own lives and well being here. subsidies, actuarial stuff, the cost and the benefits(assuming there are any after the cost is totaled up.)we have to fight for every inch we give up.

And we have got to stay loud now..)

We’ve got to replace all of these so-called Democrats with better Democrats

I would phrase it this way; we’ve got to replace all the shills with actual representatives of people, rather than representatives of corporate donors.

And I truly think that one of the best ways is to make sure that actual political news/views gets to people who are voting against their self interest. If we could somehow re-work how red-districts-get-fucked-by-their-reps we could actually get something meaningful done.

That issue is so complex.

Loma Prieta day!
I remember that. Cowering under a table…loooooong drive home…
FWDiva

This is almost too much thinking right now, but in no particular order:

- We need better access to TV news. There’s not anywhere near enough balance now, and that’s where most folks get their information. Sad, but true. The coverage on the TV of this health care thing has been as lopsided as the conservative/progressive split in Congress. No, I don’t have a plan, but until that changes, or until people just stop watching TV news, this is a huge problem.

- Primary challenges need to start now. They will have to continue for the next two or three election cycles, at least, and some will have to be successful.

- It would be nice to have some sort of website that can serve as a status indication. How pledge drives are going, where whip lists or other things are. If it were organized issue-by-issue, I think it would be handy.

Beyond that, there’s not much I see that we can do. Forget legislation. Without power in Congress, which will take real numbers, we’re dead in the water with this White House.

Hope it goes well. Goodnight.

The one thing that I like about the tea-baggers is that they know that they are getting screwed and are yelling loudly about it. Unfortunately, they don’t have a clue as to how or by whom. I guess they’re sort of like Rastafarians in the regard.

Goodnight, BC.

I hope one thing we do differently.. is spend all our time and resources on real progressives through mid terms.. the last couple of election cycles we compromised and help D’s take both the majority and the WH.

It’s time to stop that.

And I am working from the same premise… but I don’t think we should quit (give up) fighting this health bill fight right now at all.

No kidding.

I wish I was super talented in song writing; I have all these scraps/phrases/chord progressions that are just “yearning to be free.” HA! But really, that’s the sort of thing we need.

Something that hits home, but ain’t Toby Keith. Singing ’bout the right stuff, in the real way would just take it Frikking Home.

Once you hit the right emotional message, people will pick it up. That’s been the success of the astro-town-hallers (astro-howlers).

They hit those notes, and the hounds howled back.

1. Break with the Democrats.
2. Primary Democrats with progressives. (Avoids hassles with third party candidates.)
3. Offer alliances with other progressive members of Congress.
4. Agitate, agitate, agitate, especially against the rich and corporations. I think the economy is likely to get much worse and there will be a lot of populist sentiment against the status quo.
5. And for that we should develop a progressive Bill of Rights that expresses our agenda on fairness, healthcare, education, and building a sustainable future.
6. And keep it simple as in Medicare for All.

I’m sure they would just love that analogy. lmao

Yes, i too admire their loudness at times. They sure caused a lot of quick results in re making schools in rural areas cancel plans to show students the O speech. Very fast work in places that rarely see grass root action. Of course I am sure talk radio Rush and religious played a major organizing role.

I was close to home but on an overpass over 101 .. boy what a ride!!

Oh, I ain’t giving up. I’m just thinking ’bout the next battles and the whole war.

You were there! I was on upper Haight Street.. working. Ran out into the middle of the street for some strange reason. When it was over i looked at my boss huddled in the doorway, looked over at the Full Moon Saloon, looked back towards my boss… and ran into the saloon for a triple scotch. And I don’t drink Scotch. *s*

hey nahant — are you back home?

yup! Great trip but as always great to be home in our home and bed!
How are you doing??

I like it a lot Hugh. Especially a progressive bill of rights. We need a clear platform.

I’m well, thanks — are you just now getting home from the east?

On the near term, we might be able to join the fiscal conservatives in bitching about the cost. We spend $2.4 trillion per year on healthcare, which is at least $1.0 trillion too much. Obama wants to raise that to $1.1 trillion per year, and once tax-subsidized mandates open the pipeline from the treasury to the insurers’ coffers, that estimate is likely to turn out to be low.

Every cost-savings measure in this bill is pie-in-the-sky except for the public option.

Of course, fiscal conservatives are not going to vote for this bill in any form, and they’re certainly not going to support the public option. But if together we can forcus on the cost, we might be able to face down the whiners who claim we’re being so partisan. After all, we are agreeing with conservatives that another $100 billion per year is a low-ball estimate and even that is unacceptable.

Hey – that’s a lot like a “How To Be Populist” list.

And considering being popular would be, um, GOOD, I think that’s sweet.

Adios – gotta 5:45 wakeup time.

Peace to the Pups!

oh.. and it looks like his congressional website is down. All the hatemail must’ve crashed it.

It will be interesting to see what his “local paper” makes of this.

And his oh-so-fabulous constituents.

Is this assessment realistic?
When the S.C. finds for Citizens United in Citizens United v. FEC‎ our votes will be countered by the massive amounts of money pushed at politicians and into media. So, whatever happens on health care better happen soon. Could Obama’s lack of concern about how we feel be due to this coming event? There will be a bigger shift in income disparity. Health care will be the least of our concerns.
Or am I getting paranoid?

I cringed when he said something along the lines of:
and to my progressive friends, I say … blah, blah, blah.

His words were carefully chosen, and those are distancing words.
Not that he’s ever pretended to be a progressive, but…

Nope Last Tuesday… Was really great to see family and Nahant my home town!!

nite Kelly!

Btw, what is the 20 yr material…?

This year Hubby & I celebrated our 29th. I told him it was the Bathroom Scale Anniversary, since I’d bought a nifty bathroom scale @ Costco.

I’m stickin’ with that.

hehe. Redstate’s Erickson just hailed Wilson as a “American hero” for teabagging a joint session of Congress. ;-P

OK, I’m done with my crying fit.
You guys, too?

I’ve felt this way all along. And I sure think it may be one of the best ways to defeat it… and keep the republicans determined to vote against it too.

Mike Ross is working on House Republicans right now…. which could quickly dilute progressive holdouts if we are not careful. This bill could be the gift which really does garner bipartisan support.. How many republicans want to vote no to a trillion dollar gift the the medical industrial campaign contributing complex?

can I offer some Directions?

My parents got married in San Francisco November, 1941. My dad’s shipping out to Pearl Harbor was delayed because of this, or he would have been there on Dec. 7.

Instead, he + my mom were on their honeymoon on a beach in Carmel. He was in uniform, and someone came running up to tell him what had happened. Needless to say, he had to return to base & shipped out to Hawaii soon thereafter.

Does that mean I am paranoid? Goodie!
or not?

I cringed when he said something along the lines of:
and to my progressive friends, I say … blah, blah, blah.

He’s very confident that when he starts with the bleeding hearts bullshit, that progressives will cave: “Think of all the suffering widows and orphans without healthcare. How can you look at yourself it the mirror and vote against their last best hope?”

I think he’s facing a strong Dem challenge for 2010, from a Dem named George Miller. He also was one of those Sanford buddies who stabbed the governor in the back and called for his resignation.

CHS seems to be very concerned.

Bill Moyers show covered it last week.. he was a mess. I wish he would have spent half the show exploring how other countries deal with this.

Paranoia, unlike say schizophrenia, can be a blessing.

No it can’t!

Yes it can!

Rev Wright was his BFF progressive friend.

But it doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get me.

and look how that turned out.

Oh, we are all out to get you, Mary.
You guys broiling up there?

I told him it was the Bathroom Scale Anniversary, since I’d bought a nifty bathroom scale @ Costco.

Heh, I like the notion… I’ll tell her it’s the Toaster Oven/Convection Oven/Rotisserie anniversary…! Not sure if she’ll buy it…! ;-)

Map with a beat.

Hey punaise, I think my new cat looks like Louis twin sister. Will take photos soon.

I had a friend whose mother was really sick, and they had to call her dad back home. He would have been a part of the crew of the Thresher, that sub that sank in ‘63.

Roberts kept going on and on about corporations as individuals. I wanted to ask him if they were just like individuals why they didn’t have the right to vote, or have jury duty. Or how a corporation has access to bankruptcy routes the rest of us don’t have. Or why a corporation that at least in theory is deathless and so pursue its agenda endlessly can compare to human individuals that grow old and die. Corporations as legal individuals seem to receive the benefits of citizenship without incurring any of the penalties, risks, or responsibilities. It is just a way to make powerful institutions even more powerful.

I don’t think we should, either. Even if it’s only stopping a bill that sucks, it will have made things better than they would have been otherwise.

yup. I didn’t like it one bit then.

let’s see le chat!

Welcome back — Were you in greater Boston during the Kennedy funeral?

That covers a lot of very rural low country. Parris Island is outside Beaufort – also a marine air station iirc. Not sure how much of HHI population is year round residential. Used to be very little, probably has changed. Been a long time since I’ve spent time there.

I am off to bed. I have websites I have to slay tomorrow. Good night.

WHether one was comfortable with campaign silo’s P.O. angle or not… it is (we are) the only game in the damn country which can possibly stop this madness.. or the worst of it.

if you slay slow…

Ha! Actually, I named her Louiza. Must enunciate it very slowly (lazily)… southern.

So it would seem. And stopping it would mean something, which is that we can band together and be a power in Congress. The Progressive Caucus is the largest in the Congress, and yet you wouldn’t even know there was such a thing based on their effectiveness. As someone once said (I know who), if you can destroy a thing you can control it.

Addendum: While I was in support of the single-payer idea, I don’t think it would have faired any better under the circumstances. If the progressives can’t stop this bill now, they couldn’t have manuevered anything more by starting at single-payer.

More addendum: If we stop this bill, there’s always next year.

they will be led by your troll with the clown car…

Hello again, FDLer friends! (Gee I like referring to the folks I’ve discovered here as ‘Fiddlers’, though! Hello again to Eureka Springs, Diva, Newton!

It’s BleuZ00m.. Philly suburbs: cloudy, 60’s, rain expected.
Up ‘way too late ’cause I’m still jazzed about BO’s speech tonight. Yeah, he hit it outta the park, alright. But.. there are still some questions about the trigger, when and who it will really hit and for how much. And, that $ 5K individual/ $10K family max out-of-pocket expense provision which does **not** include the insurance premium.
That’s an uh-oh, IMHO..

And guessing by now you all read that cheesy apology Wilson posted; it kind of falls in on itself, laughably. Hoyer’s said something about a sanction pending?

Which brings me to a terrible knock knock joke to share:
knock knock
Who’s there?
Joe Wilson
Joe Wilson who?
(Door suddenly slams, a voice heard yelling, trails off)
I’m Joe Wilson and my pants are on fire.

If anything… Obama really put his neck on the pass anything and call it victory line tonight.

How very true Hugh. They Must be stripped of this so called citizenship without the inherent costs of being alive. Stupid mistake made long ago and must be remedied and rescinded. But I have no hope of that under these Corporatist SC Judges! Sure sucks for the little people! Our only hope is that se4veral of the judges kick off during BO’s administration so we can get our country out of the hands of these never dying entities. This is one of the things our for fathers came to America to get away from…. the Feudal system of money!!

Oh yeah but we stayed away from all that.. but did catch some of it on TV..

If the progressives can’t stop this bill now, they couldn’t have manuevered anything more by starting at single-payer.

While I didn’t agree with this 6 months ago, I do now, but for a different reason.

If you take to the theory that single-payer NOT being part of the jump-off point for this debate doomed the next best thing because it got all the heat, fine.

But remember what happened two or three weeks ago – Republicans started to see the handwriting on the wall wrt the PO, and started attacking, of all things, Co-Ops, saying they were too progressive-like.

They were never going to allow their benefactors to come under a competitive system, no matter what the start of the debate looked like. Why should they? When you dominate the communications apparatus, why should you ever settle?

why they didn’t have the right to vote, or have jury duty.

or serve in the military.

Yes, but he seems to feel himself between a rock and a hard place. He can’t go back on whatever deal he made with the insurance and healthcare companies, because they have enough money to matter. If the bill is blocked by progressives for not having a viable public option, then what’s he going to do? My bet is he punts until the next Congress, and hopes for better luck then, but who knows, really? He’s even less likely to get help from Republicans then, and the Democrats will have fewer reps and probably fewer Senators, as well.

(some stream of consciousness going on here, obviously)

It’s absolutely 21st century feudalism.

My thinking was that progressives would have been outmanuevered by the WH anyway, but you’re right from the Republican perspective. They weren’t about to let the insurance companies get hurt, because they want some of that campaign cash, too.

Right, and when your political enemies are actually in monetary lockstep, you have unexpected friends.

Who is the best Republican in our party right now?
Why, it’s the chairman of the Senate Finance committee.

EDIT: And by the way, in keeping in the spirit of bringing the chaos, I support the House Progressives in an an effort to scuttle this bill.
If we have him for another 3 years, I would rather plunder Obama in month 8 than month 46.

He’s certainly earned his millions.

I think we’re headed that way, yes.

Louiza’s a nice name

Or be coerced into re-enlisting in the military for the health benefits, only to be killed in Afghanistan.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..79776.html

This is a matter of life and death.

There’s always next year.

You know, if Hugh is half right with his dire economic forecasts… and he and Ian always seem to be. This would come back to the table much sooner than most folks might think. Sooner then the 2013 trigger if this crap passes.

A bit of history of we got fucked by the rich!

Our Hidden History of Corporations in the United States

snip

Government spending during the Civil War brought these corporations fantastic wealth. Corporate executives paid “borers” to infest Congress and state capitals, bribing elected and appointed officials alike. They pried loose an avalanche of government financial largesse. During this time, legislators were persuaded to give corporations limited liability, decreased citizen authority over them, and extended durations of charters. Attempts were made to keep strong charter laws in place, but with the courts applying legal doctrines that made protection of corporations and corporate property the center of constitutional law, citizen sovereignty was undermined. As corporations grew stronger, government and the courts became easier prey. They freely reinterpreted the U.S. Constitution and transformed common law doctrines.

One of the most severe blows to citizen authority arose out of the 1886 Supreme Court case of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad. Though the court did not make a ruling on the question of “corporate personhood,” thanks to misleading notes of a clerk, the decision subsequently was used as precedent to hold that a corporation was a “natural person.”

From that point on, the 14th Amendment, enacted to protect rights of freed slaves, was used routinely to grant corporations constitutional “personhood.” Justices have since struck down hundreds of local, state and federal laws enacted to protect people from corporate harm based on this illegitimate premise. Armed with these “rights,” corporations increased control over resources, jobs, commerce, politicians, even judges and the law.

A United States Congressional committee concluded in 1941, “The principal instrument of the concentration of economic power and wealth has been the corporate charter with unlimited power….”

snip

The fucking rest is history.. one fuckup and we have been getting screwed by the concentration of money!

Was my great grandmothers and grandmothers maid’s name. She was a wonderful woman.. I figured it’s time I serve Louiza for a spell. And you know.. we are only here to serve our cat.

As would I. At the moment, the only movement group in Congress I trust to do the right thing on any issue is the Progressive Caucus. The others are either too conservative or too interested in their own well-being. It still amazes me that there is so much unanimity on the GOP side on everything.

I agree…reluctantly

Here are some proposed Amendments to reverse this atrocity

An Amendment to Preclude Corporations from Claiming Bill of Rights Protections

SECTION 1. The U.S. Constitution protects only the rights of living human beings.

SECTION 2. Corporations and other institutions granted the privilege to exist shall be subordinate to any and all laws enacted by citizens and their elected governments.

SECTION 3. Corporations and other for-profit institutions are prohibited from attempting to influence the outcome of elections, legislation or government policy through the use of aggregate resources or by rewarding or repaying employees or directors to exert such influence.

SECTION 4. Congress shall have power to implement this article by appropriate legislation.

So now the bottom 98% of America’s socio-economic continuum now feels just like native peoples from whom the continent was stolen over the past four centuries.

Well, it’s about time for me to read an inspiring story about fish climbing up on land. If you’re in the mood for some humor, I wrote an article about my vacation, and about why I’m the king of Saab Slobber Sokning. In between there’s an article about the speech tonight. Read that one at your peril.

Goodnight, all.

I like it.

Well shit it is the 10th already… 30 days until the next Meetup on 10/10 here in Redwood City, mark your calendars.. hope many of you can make it… Will be BBQ and bring your own meat or what ever to grill… plan to have several running including the Western BBQ … takes 2 to 3 hours before it is all heated up.. will keep it running all day.. Our last Meetup was great fun!!

Well, that could also lead to the argument that standing firm on SP … which we *all* believe would have saved money, provided care for nearly al etc. etc… would have been the right / best thing to do. Also because it simplified the argument / talking points.

Just a thought as i bid you all a good night.

I understand the path, and I agree with Hugh, that the White House will try to peel off Progressives now. They will not have much trouble, if tonight’s post-speech commentary is any indication.

All you need do is watch Maxine Waters on the Ed Show, or Elizabeth Edwards on KO, both trying desperately to hold on to a shred of PO hope, actually infusing their commentary with unwarranted optimism that the PO is alive, and we are finally ‘in the fight’ for health care reform.

Makes me want to throw things at the set, but I do not begrudge them. It is just sad.

Here is more from the site
Reclaim Democracy – Restoring Citizen Authority Over Corporations

An Amendment to Reverse Buckley v. Valeo and Dominance of Wealth in Electoral Politics

SECTION 1. For the purposes of providing all citizens, regardless of wealth, a more equal opportunity to influence elections, public policy and run for public office; of furthering the principle of “one person, one vote” and preserving a participatory and democratic republic; as well as the purpose of limiting corruption and the appearance of corruption, we the people declare the unlimited use of money to influence elections incompatible with the principle of equal protection established under the Fourteenth Amendment.

SECTION 2. The Congress shall have the power to set limits on contributions and expenditures made to influence the outcome of any federal election.

SECTION 3. Each state shall have the power to set limits on contributions and expenditures made to influence the outcome of elections in that state.

SECTION 4. The power of each state to set limits on contributions and expenditures shall extend to all elections in that state, including initiative and referendum elections, as well as the power to lower any federal limits for the election of members of Congress to represent the people of that state.

SECTION 5. Congress shall have power to implement and enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Seems to me to be something us progressives should get behind! Of course we need to have a few rightwingnut SC Judges kick off so they can be replaced with the Peoples Judges!

Time for some sleep, but not before sharing a health care nightmare story:

Your Duck is Dead:

A woman brought a very limp duck into a veterinary surgeon. As she laid her pet on the table, the vet pulled out his stethoscope and listened to the bird’s chest.

After a moment or two, the vet shook his head sadly and said; “I’m sorry, your duck (Cuddles) has passed away.”

The distressed woman wailed; “Are you sure?”

“Yes, I am sure. The duck is dead.” replied the vet.

“How can you be so sure?” she protested. “I mean you haven’t done any testing on him or anything. He might just be in a coma or something.”

The vet rolled his eyes, turned around, and left the room.

He returned a few minutes later with a black Labrador Retriever. As the
duck’s owner looked on in amazement, the dog stood on his hind legs, put
his front paws on the examination table, and sniffed the duck from top to
bottom. He then looked up at the vet with sad eyes and shook his head.

The vet patted the dog on the head and took it out of the room.

A few minutes later he returned with a cat. The cat jumped on the table and also delicately sniffed the bird from head to foot. The cat sat back on its haunches, shook its head, meowed softly, and strolled out of the room.

The vet looked at the woman and said; “I’m sorry, but as I said, this is most definitely, 100% certifiably, a dead duck.”

The vet turned to his computer terminal, hit a few keys and produced a
bill, which he handed to the woman. The duck’s owner, still in shock, took the bill. “$150!” she cried; “$150 just to tell me my duck is dead!?”

The vet shrugged; “I’m sorry. If you had just taken my word for it, the
bill would have been $20, but…..with the Lab Report and the Cat Scan,
it’s now $150.

I thought when achieved a proper balance of skepticism, cynicism, and optimism, my life would be more interesting.

LOLROTF

OK, now I’m throwing things!
hey

Fat chance newt you always will run into a wingnut and you will be pulling your hair out at their blind stupidity about everything!!

No subliminal Orwellian messaging. It’s just a dead duck.

Awesome amendments…! Too bad they’ll never see the light of day during this current Congress…!

Just for a change is a Beck worth listening to

Heh, May you live in interesting times…! ;-)

I am not willing to grant them the grace of stupidity – at least not the ones who issue marching-orders to the initiates.

They are mendacious pricks who are incapable of backing up enough to see their actions for what they are – un-American, destructive of any civic purpose, unaccountable, craven, and much more.

Letting them off for gross ignorance is a travesty – they are not to be so rewarded.

Yeah, I am mad all over again.

But we can hope for “Change We Can Believe In” Right??

Per email just in from boldprogressives.org:

After an emergency, 6-day campaign — launched as the West Wing was debating what would be in the president’s speech — President Obama did what so many of us urged him to do.

Obama embraced the public health insurance option and explained why insurers that profit by denying care need competition. To be fair, there were downsides, such as framing a public option with 60%-70% support as a left-wing proposal. We’ll need to keep urging the president to think big and fulfill his mandate.

I thought he sort of diminished importance of the public option and implied that we’re making far too big a deal of it. Admittedly, he was waffling, and perhaps I was only noticing one side of the waffle.

Yes, sir. That’s where I was headed.

Pass me that doob you’re bogarting…! ;-)

Careful, you don’t want to end up with ER charges for Lab report and Cat scan at this time of night.

While I agree, there was one meaningless but illustrative moment – he pinned single-payer to the far-Left. He could have easily, out of a wish to dispense with the matter altogether, said public option instead. So public option supporters get several more days of oxygen. Thank you very much, Mr. President.

Such is the manner of a strong leader.
*pukes*

No, you heard right… He was bailing on the ‘Robust’ Public Option right here and now… There will be a trigger that can be pulled in 2013/14, but, we’re screwed til then…! What a crock of crap….

Good stay that way!! While staying at my sisters my Brother in-law had the The interview with Mike Wallace and Cheney on( mt B in law is fucking crazy about Glenn’s Gospel TRUTH)Cheney was ling about how Torture saved this country from Attack so I says to my Sis ( not him) I am going up stairs to read I can’t listen ti these Lies cheney was spewing and boy did B in law explode ha ha I got under his skin in a big way… My sister took and hour to calm him down but we didn’t talk about anything political of course I did manage to get some diggs in about Bush… couldn’t help myself

Hey, Sequoia Hospital Emergency is only 4.3 miles away from me.

night all – be well

I sure wish I had one (:>((
Send some of that MowiWowi my way

Aloha…!

Sadly, all my relatives are Lefties. If I want fireworks, over the holidays for instance, I have to go to friends’ parents homes. But I have done it, and it is most rewarding.

nite PPDCUS

After tonight’s razzledazzlement, this statement was never truer:

The only real affordable health care in America, is not getting sick in the first place.

Excellent!

Nice note to end the day..

Sure is! But I had to be a bit careful as he is way overweight 400+lbs, high Blood pressure and stubborn as all get up.. he was supposed to be wearing a heart monitor as hes fibrillation issues but no he kept removing it… my sister was pissed at him… my oldest (the ICU nurse) said he was the walking dead and he won’t be around long…

*sigh* Ya just have to go outta yer way eh…? ;-)

On that note about not getting sick??? right! Nite Pups!!

In 2000 or 2001, I visited with evengelical parents of a high school buddy.
It was Easter, and my hypothesis (and I admit to having had a spot of drink) was that if Jesus had wanted to do us a favor, he would never have left the cave.

It was not well received.

Yer evil…! ;-)

ironic

nite nahant

Leon Russell kept rolling around in my head all through dinner. it just slipped out.

I’m in the mood for revenge….
A piece of Wilson would be yummy.

Aloha, nahant! I hope to see ya’ll Fri. Nite when I’m back up here…!

Tasty. But remember that when a Republican does not apologize for being a complete asshole, he is forgiven. When a Republican does apologize, his fellow Republicans become his enemies.

I expect him to initiate a party-switch within the month. And as with Lieberman, I would expect Obama to welcome him with a box of Cuban cigars and a committee chair.

I find this both amusing and disgusting…

Gibbs mocks Fox for airing dance reality show instead of Obama.

…“I do hope the viewers of FOX will find a way to watch this speech tonight,” Gibbs said. “I know the network, instead of dealing with the reality of millions of people on health insurance reform have decided to show a reality show called ‘So You Think You Can Dance?’”…

…But Gibbs couldn’t help taking another shot at the broadcast channel’s decision: “I do hope people will check in to the reality of what’s going on in America rather than the distraction of a reality TV show.”

Gibbs said that Obama would be discussing a lot of ideas that Republicans have brought up in the health care reform debate, and that he hopes that it will lead one-time congressional foes to “come on in and work with us on reform.”

That last sentence truly sticks in my craw…!

Are you attacking Obama for being all bi-partisany?
Blaspheme!
Besides, why shouldn’t the Republican amendment to include a tax cut in the health care legislation be taken seriously?

Say it ain’t so…

(Andrew)Card says he is considering run for Kennedy’s seat…

I strongly disagree. The cigars will be Tampa specials.

Yes, I expect him to do very well in that race.
It gets truly ugly wonderful at about 2:45

Bring.Him.On.

I’m a Cohiba man, so what do I know…

Heh, that was a thing of beauty…! ;-)

Btw, Attaturk’s upstairs…!

More than I do.
What did Clinton smoke?

He and Vernon Jordan reportedly smoked Macanudo’s on the golf course.
While my mom taught me to be polite about such things, let me say this – I don’t think either of them cared if they were Petite Upmanns or White Owls, given the givens.

On that entertaining note, and having just heard NPR news on the hour normalize Wilson’s transgression as the result of high running tensions in congress tonight, I’ll pack it in.

nite all