dirty hippies for getting Max Backside to include the legalization of reefer in the health care bill.

dirty hippies for being allowed to pay our $3000 fines to Backside’s insurance companies with bags of home-grown wacky weed.

Typical conservative fascist indoctrination:

http://whitenoiseinsanity.com/…..ts-wishes/

Oh but when a black Democratic President talks to the children of America about working hard and keeping their eyes on their goals….that’s Socialism/Communism indoctrination!

I want my country back.

Two points about Palin’s piece.

Her, “…Rather than another top-down government plan, let’s give Americans control over their own health care,” is flat wrong.

Control over “their own health care” would be the current system that is in place. Which is not working.The private health care industry has control over our health care. Right down to whether or not one even receives health care.

Secondly, her efforts to promote the private sector over government run programs because the private sector has less waste brings many Iraq contractors to mind. Contractors that a Republican administration hired.

The private VS public argument is old and has plenty of recent examples of greater waste, fraud and abuse through privatization.

Mornin’, BT, pups

That’s quite the piece from Afghanistan. We can expect more of the same.

Mornin’ Happy 09-09-09!

In 2001 we backed the wrong horse and haven’t changed since.

I’m re-reading Chalmers Johnson’s The Sorrows of Empire, which details the building of the US empire after WWII. We don’t learn a thing from our past mistakes. Rome redux.

According to Lawrence O’Donnell on KO last night, NONE of the health reform bills from the committees will ensure UNIVERSAL coverage. Maybe I’ve been too focused on the public option, but I felt gobsmacked. This is at least as important, and isn’t getting enough coverage.

Or maybe it’s me…

Don’t forget the U.S. was intentionally an empire right from the founders onward. Remember the Monroe Doctrine, Louisiana Purchase, Manifest Destiny.

Yep. Johnson touches on that in his prologue but he’s primarily focused on the militarization of our foreign policy since WWII, the takeover of the functions of the State Dept by the Pentagon.

I don’t think universal coverage has ever been addressed, other than in a passing comment on reform. Congress, particularly the Senate, isn’t interested in reform, just kabuki to make the rubes at home feel better while the health insurance companies butt rape everybody.

I’ve read only the first book of Johnson’s trilogy. Another good book on what you describe is House of War by James Carroll, which makes all the points you make. I have an audio version on my ipod and have listened to it 2 or 3 times. I mentioned the early history just to indicate that empire is deep within U.S. DNA and all that we witness within a period of time is how that is manifested.

Leaving millions of people out of whatever plan is passed is unacceptable. Where is our outrage on THIS issue??

Coffee’s gone, democracynow is over. Off to reread King of the Mountain by Arnold Ludwig, the best book on the nature of political leaders.

The majority of Americans are just too fuckin’ lazy to care. Look at the turnout for TH meetings. Maybe a couple hundred people, a quarter of whom were there just to disrupt, out of a congressional district. There are over a half million registered voters in Pinellas County. Bill Young never holds public events but there was no clamor for a TH this time, with the exception of the lefties in the area.

Breaking the connection between employer based insurance and government based insurance would give Americans the most control over their health insurance and care. Many employers would be relieved if this were to happen.

As for your assertion re: government contractors, the onus is on the CONSUMER to make sure they are getting the most value, quality and service for their dollars. The federal government is a very careless consumer.

Is anyone else really worried about the Supreme Court’s upcoming ruling on Citizens United v. FEC?

And for what reason, again?

I’m sorry, I must be forgetting my indoctrination to the whole Obama thing.

Probably because I didn’t go to school yesterday.

Dammit.

Yes. See my diary.

OT for Southern Dragon:

Okay, sailor. Tell me about your father, DC, and jazz.

SCOTUS: Citzens United To Be Re-Argued Today

Oh yeah, that’s the one of the session, AFAIC.

And it renders everything we’ve fought for, well, obsolete, IMO, if they rule as I fear they may.

Don’t know why, but I do have a semblence of hope in that case.

Maybe it’s the coffee this morning.

“black”?

See Christy’s current post.

Sorry. Didn’t mean to be redundant.

As for the WSJ article…the President will continue to vote ’present’ on the public option, saying he wants it BUT…

The public does NOT WANT the public option. The public option is highly unpopular with everyone except progressives.

Progressives are willing to say ’public option or nothing’ and nothing is what they may very well end up getting.

Holy shit. Just read that link.

Well, the good news is, TexBetsy has a helluva a lawsuit, and I hope like hell she pursues it. If that were my child, wow, I guess a lawsuit would be the most civil thing I could think of as a response.

The bad news, well the lawsuit would take place in Texas. That’s Texas. Things are different in Texas.

I want my country back too. And while I know there’s an awful lot of good folks down there in the Lone Star state, sometimes I do wish they’d go ahead a secede and be done with it. And don’t let the door hit them in the ass on the way out.

Then maybe we could contribute to a fund or something to relocate the good ones to a more enlightened place or something.

Oh boy, we get a dose of teh stoopid in the morning, and one who obviously can’t read polls. Well, probably can’t read anything else either, so I shouldn’t be surprised.

My dad was a well established musician, piano, during and after WWII in DC. Played on the Arthur Godfrey Show on radio, had his own radio show in the late 40s and played gigs all over town until the early 70s. Most jazz musicians in those days played with dance bands for the pay and in clubs on off days for a few bucks but mainly for the music. When I left in 61 my dad had had a gig on the roof of the Roger Smith Hotel during the summer for years. The Starlight Roof it was called. Usually a 4 piece band. The guys would play til 2 then hit the clubs/bars where jazz was being played. After the British invasion most the joints switched to rock n roll but there was still a jazz scene in town, mostly centered around Georgetown where the colleges were. If the name Herb De Berry strikes a chord you’ve seen him play.

Hey, I saw your question Monday long after you’d been gone. Utah was talking about who fights in wars and I repeated that as a teaser to get folks to watch/listen to the whole show on DN!.

The majority of Americans are just too fuckin’ lazy to care.

What basis do you have to attribute it to laziness? Truth be told, the “majority” of Americans are happy with their health insurance/health care.

Heh, Libertarian and Rethug talking points, brought to the Lake live and in living colour.

Off to swim in the great capitalist cesspool.

US KIA Irak: 4343

US KIA Afghanistan: 820

Be good to yourselves, and all other living things.

Namaste

We’re so blessed.

*sighs in wonder*

or *pukes in mouth*

one or the other.

If your going to get prissy about documentation, perhaps you should qualify your own gross generalization. My experience is that I have been mildly satisfied with my coverage, but never actually “happy”. I think I’ve been closest to being actually “happy” with my coverage during four years in the USAF and during the past year under Medicare. In fact, on a couple of occasions I’ve been almost “ecstatic” with my government run coverage and I suspect that some of the frantic townhall complainers I’ve seen simply don’t want their government-run coverage reduced in any way.

OT for SD:

Thanks. After the initial fascination with DC, we eventually came to spend a good deal of our off-duty time in Georgetown. College girls and secretaries were the attraction. I can’t recall going to any jazz places but of course that was many years ago with many beers being consumed at the time. Spent a lot of time at a place called The Brickskeller but the only live music I remember them having was a local rock band.

Sorry, didn’t mean to be prissy. But my gross generalization is based on a google search of:

majority happy with health insurance

Poll after poll shows it to be true, not a generalization. Laziness on the other hand is never mentioned.

Not talking points. Fact. The majority of Americans are satisfied with their health care and insurance but think the cost is too high. Unfortunately none of the current proposals do anything but grow our deficit and do little to bring costs down. The majority of Americans do not see health care as a crisis. The economy outweighs health care reform as the most pressing problem. The exploding deficits are of concern as well.

You are living in a bubble.

Of course, there is also the missing follow-up question for those folks who “are satisfied with their insurance:”

“Have you ever had to make a major claim due to illness or accident?”

Unfortunately none of the current proposals do anything but grow our deficit and do little to bring costs down

Um, yeah…if we had single payer, we would save $350 Billion just from eliminating excess paperwork of the 30% overhead of insurance companies.

That alone would pay for the program.

Yep, that’s the kicker.

BTW, have we seen any polls out there that did ask that follow-up??

I’d be curious, especially in California after hearing the rates of decline there.

And don’t you just have to laugh whenever the trolls bring up the deficit as a reason to OPPOSE health care reform.

I mean how stoopid must you be to not realize that NO reform is worse for the deficit than anything. Gotta give em credit. Stoopid is their consistancy.

Americans DON’T WANT single-payer because they are concerned that cost controls will lead to rationed care. How many Americans are willing to risk rationing and loss of innovation to control costs via a governemnt run system?

If the government and the employer were released from providing/administering health care we would see costs decrease dramatically because consumers would see directly how much services and treatments costs. Demand for lower costs would naturally spur innovation and competition. No rationing necessary.

If consumers were responsible for purchasing insurance and paying for care directly, the government would be free to focus on the truly needy and improve the quality and efficiency of the health care services for the impoverished, elderly and our veterans.

Actually support for existing plans/care is HIGHEST among those who have insurance and have faced serious illness or injury.

I am not arguing against reform, just a public option that will lead to single payer.

Explain how the ’public option’ will reduce the deficit? Costs will explode after 4 years…the CBO has reported this.

If Obama drops the public plan and mandates he can get some measure of health insurance reform because most people want health insurance reforms without junking the whole system. New national and regional markets for insurance helping create the conditions for individual insurance empowerment. That is a plan that can pass.

It’s called the Republican plan, and it is as available now to Obama as it was six months ago. All Obama has to do is just say yes.

Do you favor or oppose, “Having a national health plan in which all Americans would get their insurance through an expanded, universal form of Medicare-for all?”
Favor 58%, Oppose 38%, NA/DK 3%

Like I said, teh stoopid can’t read polls (and probably just can’t read), but seem to be very comfortable with proclaiming knowledge of what Americans want.

Oh yeah, the poll was done by KAISER. Like I’m sure they’d be interested in sckewing a poll that would effectively put them out of business.

In fact, 4 polls this summer showed plurality support for single payer, while 3 of the 4 showed majority support, all at about 57%-59%.

But teh stoopid read those same results and can claim Americans don’t want single payer. Gotta admit, it must be fun to live in a fantasy world all the time where you can just make shit up and that’s the way it is. Good times indeed.

Oh, and sorry mods. I know you scolded yesterday, and I know my tolerance for teh stoopid is zero, so this will be my last post in this thread before I get more “intolerable”. Delete/edit at will.

Sad. Today’s effort by BT is one of the most timely and comprehensive presentations of the various really vital issues of RIGHT NOW, and most of the “comments” are from another planet, self-ceentered and gossipy. The United States of A-ME-rica is screwed up because no one can stay on topic. Discouraging.

I am not arguing against reform, just a public option that will lead to single payer.

Oh, gees, if that isn’t a contradictory statement, I don’t know what is…

If you don’t have a public option and you don’t have single payer, you really don’t have a REFORM, now do you? It will only be worse, because then you will be FORCED to buy insurance from companies that have proven to be amoral.

They are spending $1.4 million a day to fight real REFORM. They have denied care to folks who dutifully paid their premiums.

Perhaps if you checked out this report on T.R.Reid’s report of health systems around the world–and the slant PBS gave to it.

Or Matt Taibbi’s piece might help open your mind a bit.