Comments on: “The Lockerbie Bomber”: The Rest of the Story http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/ Firedoglake weblog Fri, 17 Feb 2012 20:33:17 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: JamesJoyce http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968797 JamesJoyce Tue, 01 Sep 2009 09:59:24 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968797 <p>One word……… Oil…… The compromising of all we hold important for the black gold. As slaves where exploited for their uncompensated labor to line pockets of corporations, those who died in a terrorist attack will little accountability, their lives and memories are now desecrated by the actions of politicians inured for the benefit of BP. A disgusting manifestation of situation ethics by political and corporate scum. Those responsible for this release, die and rot in hell. Rest in peace Nicole Belangei, a victim, again!</p> One word……… Oil…… The compromising of all we hold important for the black gold. As slaves where exploited for their uncompensated labor to line pockets of corporations, those who died in a terrorist attack will little accountability, their lives and memories are now desecrated by the actions of politicians inured for the benefit of BP. A disgusting manifestation of situation ethics by political and corporate scum. Those responsible for this release, die and rot in hell. Rest in peace Nicole Belangei, a victim, again!

]]> By: PierceNichols http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968324 PierceNichols Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:49:49 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968324 <p>Libya bombing: 15 Apr 1986<br /> PanAm 103 bombing: 21 Dec 1988</p> <p>So, how was the bombing of Libya retaliation for the bombing of flight 103, again? The way I heard the story it was the other way ’round.</p> Libya bombing: 15 Apr 1986
PanAm 103 bombing: 21 Dec 1988

So, how was the bombing of Libya retaliation for the bombing of flight 103, again? The way I heard the story it was the other way ’round.

]]> By: YYSyd http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968312 YYSyd Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:44:30 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968312 <p>As far as the Libyans are concerned, they believe that the man was innocent. In that situation you would expect celebration upon return, and how heroic it is perceived has more to do with their relations to the “West” than with any notion of supporting terrorism. This point seems to be missed entirely by the media that may be forgiven (because we don’t expect much) to be gullible about the purported justice to convict the man in the first place.</p> <p>I think the worst aspect of the political stunt that was the conviction of the sacrificial Libyan intelligence agent, is the continued insistence of justice and truth, now topped off by a show of how humane the system is.</p> As far as the Libyans are concerned, they believe that the man was innocent. In that situation you would expect celebration upon return, and how heroic it is perceived has more to do with their relations to the “West” than with any notion of supporting terrorism. This point seems to be missed entirely by the media that may be forgiven (because we don’t expect much) to be gullible about the purported justice to convict the man in the first place.

I think the worst aspect of the political stunt that was the conviction of the sacrificial Libyan intelligence agent, is the continued insistence of justice and truth, now topped off by a show of how humane the system is.

]]> By: Assumpsit http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968308 Assumpsit Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:40:34 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968308 <p>The rather scurrilous, but highly entertaining, English magazine “Private Eye” has long argued for his innocence.</p> The rather scurrilous, but highly entertaining, English magazine “Private Eye” has long argued for his innocence.

]]> By: aardvark http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968250 aardvark Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:32:35 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968250 <p>What is justice in such situations? I think that is a central issue folks need to grapple with. My conclusion is that there is none. Nothing will bring the victims back; there is no “remedy making things whole,” to use the legalese. There is no compensation for the relatives that makes things right, though it might ease their situation. Now, if I could put a bullet through the head of the man who killed my wife five years ago, erase her death, erase the five years of being a single parent to young children, I would be sorely tempted to do so. But, that is make-believe, and should be treated as such. He will probably go to trial in January.</p> <p>Anyone know what the research literature says on whether the families of murder victims get closure when the convicted is executed? I only know two, and neither indicated the execution helped in resolution.</p> <p>Seems that punitiveness and vindictiveness rather than compassion and forgiveness have overtaken American society, and for that, we are less.</p> <p>Do I believe the man who killed my wife should pay a penalty? Of course. Without penalties, there is license for any act of harm; even primitive societies have sanctions for acts against its members. Does that necessary mean justice has been achieved? I don’t think so.</p> <p>And that is the conundrum the families of murder/terrorist victims must come to reconcile themselves with. There is no justice; but that does not mean one cannot grieve and move forward–not move on, but move forward. No, there is not closure, but one can move forward.</p> <p>DM</p> What is justice in such situations? I think that is a central issue folks need to grapple with. My conclusion is that there is none. Nothing will bring the victims back; there is no “remedy making things whole,” to use the legalese. There is no compensation for the relatives that makes things right, though it might ease their situation. Now, if I could put a bullet through the head of the man who killed my wife five years ago, erase her death, erase the five years of being a single parent to young children, I would be sorely tempted to do so. But, that is make-believe, and should be treated as such. He will probably go to trial in January.

Anyone know what the research literature says on whether the families of murder victims get closure when the convicted is executed? I only know two, and neither indicated the execution helped in resolution.

Seems that punitiveness and vindictiveness rather than compassion and forgiveness have overtaken American society, and for that, we are less.

Do I believe the man who killed my wife should pay a penalty? Of course. Without penalties, there is license for any act of harm; even primitive societies have sanctions for acts against its members. Does that necessary mean justice has been achieved? I don’t think so.

And that is the conundrum the families of murder/terrorist victims must come to reconcile themselves with. There is no justice; but that does not mean one cannot grieve and move forward–not move on, but move forward. No, there is not closure, but one can move forward.

DM

]]> By: JClausen http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968246 JClausen Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:09:15 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968246 <p>I made several Libyan friends. It was amazing to me how a group of tribal people one generation from camels could distinguish between the American Government and me, an American educator there to help them. </p> <p>“America Government is Mish Quase(Not good), but you my American friend ok” </p> <p>Much more enlightened than our fearful citizens scared of anyone who is different.</p> I made several Libyan friends. It was amazing to me how a group of tribal people one generation from camels could distinguish between the American Government and me, an American educator there to help them.

“America Government is Mish Quase(Not good), but you my American friend ok”

Much more enlightened than our fearful citizens scared of anyone who is different.

]]> By: SouthernDragon http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968244 SouthernDragon Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:51:36 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968244 <p>That had to be an experience to remember. Out of curiosity, what did they think of us 30 years ago, the “man on the street?”</p> That had to be an experience to remember. Out of curiosity, what did they think of us 30 years ago, the “man on the street?”

]]> By: JClausen http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968243 JClausen Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:47:48 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968243 <p>SD,<br /> I lived in Libya from 1978-81. I still have copies of Quadaffi press releases call Caspar Weinberger the “US Minister for War” Hardly inappropriate eh?</p> <p>My years included the Hostage Crises where Libyans blew up a Us Embassy car thankfully with no one in it.</p> SD,
I lived in Libya from 1978-81. I still have copies of Quadaffi press releases call Caspar Weinberger the “US Minister for War” Hardly inappropriate eh?

My years included the Hostage Crises where Libyans blew up a Us Embassy car thankfully with no one in it.

]]> By: solerso http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968241 solerso Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:43:47 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968241 <p>I remember reading during the trial (and before) that the Iranian govt was ultimately behind the bombing. It was a revenge attack for the Iranian civillian airbus that was shot down by a U.S navy warship in the Persian gulf in the late 80’s.All the pasengers aboard that aircraft died as well. There was an attempt to assasinate the commander of that ship (who was never given anything but praise, and probably a medal by the reagan regime), with a bomb under his car near his home in California.The govt claimed those responsible were “Syrian” agents, at a time of conflict between Isreal and Syria over the west bank and the Golan hts.So it seems that back then (kinda like now), it was pin the tail on the “terraist”. I dont know if this guy is innocent, if he IS guilty, he is guilty of being a Libyan agent, who was given orders and a mission by his superiors and carried them out, kind of like any American CIA agent would do.</p> I remember reading during the trial (and before) that the Iranian govt was ultimately behind the bombing. It was a revenge attack for the Iranian civillian airbus that was shot down by a U.S navy warship in the Persian gulf in the late 80’s.All the pasengers aboard that aircraft died as well. There was an attempt to assasinate the commander of that ship (who was never given anything but praise, and probably a medal by the reagan regime), with a bomb under his car near his home in California.The govt claimed those responsible were “Syrian” agents, at a time of conflict between Isreal and Syria over the west bank and the Golan hts.So it seems that back then (kinda like now), it was pin the tail on the “terraist”. I dont know if this guy is innocent, if he IS guilty, he is guilty of being a Libyan agent, who was given orders and a mission by his superiors and carried them out, kind of like any American CIA agent would do.

]]> By: SouthernDragon http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968240 SouthernDragon Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:35:14 +0000 http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/31/the-lockerbie-bomber-the-rest-of-the-story/#comment-1968240 <p>I doubt every person in that crowd was a government functionary. To the “average citizen” of Libya I would imagine they pay as much attention to public opinion in the West as the “average citizen” here does to public opinion in Libya. I don’t recall any official statement from the Libyan government apologizing for the demonstration on the tarmac. If anything the “average citizen” in Libya may well see us as imperialistic infidel warmongers. How wrong would they be?</p> I doubt every person in that crowd was a government functionary. To the “average citizen” of Libya I would imagine they pay as much attention to public opinion in the West as the “average citizen” here does to public opinion in Libya. I don’t recall any official statement from the Libyan government apologizing for the demonstration on the tarmac. If anything the “average citizen” in Libya may well see us as imperialistic infidel warmongers. How wrong would they be?

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