I get Tweety early here, some blasts from the past clips there.
Andrea Mitchell pointing out how the hostage release was a television spectacular that destroyed Carter’s campaign, and the panel skirts around without outright admitting Reagan’s betrayal of his country.

Morning all, Thanks Elliott. I am not so masochistic as to try watching Stephanopolis with Liz Cheney, George Will and etc. Ted Kennedy as viewed by war criminals.
Fareed Zacharia reran the same interview last weekend. Are they wanting us to memorize it.

Ohgod, here’s Tweety on the Kennedys, talking about how the brothers kept their eyes on each other, then how could they have expected Sirhan Sirhan.

Yeh, sounded like he was saying they suspected each other, but I think that’s just his bumbling.

Does talk about how attentive and caring Ted was, then how ‘he had to live up to’ being born Kennedy. but also born a human being who ‘looked all the better closer up’

Good morning, pups. It’s a slow Sunday since Dowd, Friedman and Rich are all off today. Mr. Kristof, in “Until Medical Bills Do Us Part,” has a question: How do those who fear death panels feel about a health care system that breaks apart families?

Here he is.

The coffee and tea are ready, the cool drinks are in the fridge, and I’ve got yeast waffles with either warm maple syrup or a dusting of sugar and fresh raspberries. Have a great day.

Also in NYT, Supremes coming back from vacation to judge the ‘Hillary: tHE Movie” smear paid for by conservatives,whether the 1st amendment allows political groups to support material to besmirch candidates.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08…..038;emc=th

What is the demographics of people who tune in to Sunday bobblehads? Most of the main media outlets suck and I don’t bother with them and they are full of CIA plants so even the news itself is slanted and propaganda. But who could look to this rubbish to inform their views?

So much to fix in a broken America.

Where to start?

Guess everyone is sleeping in.

Good Morning…yep, most of the show on role of TV….how it effects a campaign, politicians….interesting history and clips, nothing about specific, current issues…Duk and the tank, MIssion Accomplished, Brownie, Swift Boats, etc etc.

I don’t have clear recollections of other funerals but the Ted Kennedy one which I watched most of because of the lousy weather was very moving and powerful. I was quite impressed by it and his family. I don’t remember anything like this.

Was this different? Do you have a similar reaction?

I don’t remember Robert Kennedy’s funeral but recently Jack Kemp passed away and it didn’t come close.

Well, I was struck again by how well these people do ritual….they had a tragic amount of practice. JFK’s, however, was dark and traumatic and the sadness palpable….so that was quite different. The similarity was there with Bobby’s with the trip to Wash….the Bobby pictures with people along the route are still often shown. The train was very late getting to Wash b/c of slowing down for all the people. Vickie’s role of course was very different as well.

Didn’t watch because I detest the network gasbags who give their commentary that is either disingenuous, self-serving, or outright false. My mother did watch it all and said it was very moving. She said she cried off and on all day and she’s a foreign national. Any you’re right, so many broken things and where to start.

Frankly TK was quite an amazing person when you consider his accomplishments and the tragedies he shouldered in his life. Amazing I thought.

I watched JFK’s funeral in my dormitory outside Boston, lots of kids sitting there sobbing. I hadn’t realized how much his presidency meant to people there until then, came up from HS in VA. This funeral reminded me of how like family the Kennedys are to MA’ns.

The thing about the funeral was that he lived a full lifem unlike his brothers who were cut down half way through. His family life involved being “father” to his brothers kids all the family outings his sailing and the prodigious amount of work he accomplished in the senate. He also seemed to be a terrific father to them all. How did he find time for it all and he spent a lot of effort for the people of MA.

I came away from seeing the funeral very impressed with Ted. I suspect many people saw so many good things that knocked them back.

His live was an amazing gift to the nation and his family and I am sure he suffered enormous guilt about Mary Jo and this informed so much of his life after that. How many tragedies can one person shoulder? In that alone he is a giant among us.

Mornin’, Elliott, pups

A local story. Terri Schiavo’s father died yesterday afternoon from a heart attack.

Bob Schindler and his wife Mary lived in a condo managed by the mom-and-pop realty company I work for. I had not met him until Michael Schiavo began the journey we all know too well. My boss had allied himself with Bob in this issue while most of the rest of us supported Michael. Unsurprisingly, I was the only one who would poke my boss over it. I pretty much knew I was on the right path when Randall Terry ingratiated himself with the Schindlers and became an adviser for the duration. Bob came to the office fairly often to talk with the boss and one of those days was memorable for me. I walked into the boss’s office one afternoon and he was talking to Bob and another man. Bob and the other guy turned when I came into the room and I recognized Terry. My boss went to introduce Terry but I just gave Terry my best “if looks could kill” look, turned around and walked out. Later the boss and I had quite the argument over this whole thing. To this day I believe the money Michael received for his wife’s care was at the center of this sad episode. RIP Robert Schindler. You and Terri are together once again.

JFK’s death was the loss of innocence for America. We have not come to terms with the violence around us in this country. Many to this do do not believe in the lone nut case and suspect a much more sinnister conspiracy with good reason for that belief. This as well is such a numbing thought it is a nation like a small child coming to grips that there is no santa claus.

Since that time we the people seem to have less and less control of our own government. We seemed to have veered into very dangerous territory with an agenda that does not seem to align with what would benefit the people of this nation. Nothing seems to be getting better. In fact it only gets worse and demands for accountability and transparency are not heeded. We are being shown the mother of all cover ups which to many of us began on Nov. 22 1963.

Despite all the great work of Ted it felt that he was some what held down and was unable to make the big changes he so believed in. They didn’t have to assassinate him. He didn’t seem to want to look behind the curtain and reveal the levers of power in the nation.

With his death those left in the Senate look very very small with perhaps the exception of Bernie Sanders. Unfortunately the corporate media will never have Senator Sanders on their weekly Sunday gasbag circle jerks.

morning everyone, not staying long but will live blog my panera breakfast

today I am having the same thing as last week, their super dark roast which is about as strong as starbucks lite, and spinach artichoke soufflé to which they were already out but I can wait for fresh

on to the task on board;

Fox News Sunday: Dick Cheney. “Were the actions of some CIA officials appropriate or did they go too far in their effort to protect the country from another terrorist attack?”

of course they wouldn’t think to frame this;

“what if there were some CIA officials used tactics that they thought up in a depraved and sick mind only to satisfy their depravity, to which would have caused everyone in the person’s family and all their friends to become enemies of America, would you think THAT was a good
idea?”

first, he is a moron and wouldn’t even realise the question was directed at him and his actions, second his head would explode realizing the only answer to that question is “of course they have to be prosecuted”

but no reporter today will ask this kind of double edged question, even when confronted with an enemy of this state like the dick

That case was so tragic and bizarre especially because of the insertion and media into a family matter. I recall Frist making his video diagnosis. How pathetic and cruel.

People need to understand that it’s the quality of life that is important not just life itself. A brain dead person should not be kept alive. The chance of them coming back may be 1 in a million but it’s not worth the resources for those odds. People need to let go and not drag this on and on and on.

Suffering is what needs to be lessened. That is where we need to focus our energy and resources.

How about framing the question this way – “as a unconvicted war criminal do you think that those who did your bidding should also be guilty of war crimes?”

This whole torture discussion is an unwinnable argument for the right. Their logic is twisted and the more they attempt to call black white the more they dig themselves in and more and more horror is revealed about what they did.

The $64k question is who will be held accountable if anyone and why would we not hold people – all people – every level of this horror accountable? Understanding that torture is wrong and what is abuse does not take rocket science to figure out.

If you are a pilot and you’re transporting someone who is shackled blind folded gagged ears plugged for even 8 hours you too are complicit in torture.

This whole thing has to end and it won’t end until all who participated are punished for their wrong doing. ALL.

here’s another question I wish some journalist would have the balls to ask this dick;

“so, if you were subjected to these “techniques”, how long do you think it would take the interrogator to get you to admit you were the person responsible for the attack on the world trade center, that you were the mastermind?”

“and for that matter, how long do you think it would take for that interrogator to get you to yell at the top of your lungs that torture is a crime and treason?”

“and one last question, if you were subjected to these techniques, how much of this information that they gained would be accurate??

a head feast of talking heads exploding would ensue

The people who do these things obviously believe that it is OK. That is a legitimate tool in the intelligence quiver.

Society needs to first make a clear statement that it is wrong and all who participated were engaged in crimes. Ignorance is no defense. And crimes must be prosecuted. I don’t want to have sadists who don’t get it walking around my neighborhood or worse let them believe that what they did was OK because society doesn’t punish them.

Hey, good morning everybody!

Teddy’s service yesterday was very moving, he surely was beloved by his family and the people who worked with and for him. That says a lot about a person. I was asked to name a Republican leader who would generate a similar outpouring of affection, and I couldn’t. (and where was George HW Bush yesterday… ?)

Quel surpriz that Fox props up Cheney this week, there’s a lot on this over at emptywheel’s, along with Scarecrow’s Haitt post.

May Mr. Schindler rest in peace. What an obscene circus that became.

We all know ex-Darth is incapable of the truth, why would he lie any more when questioned about torture’s effect?

The precept that torture worked is vital to the wingnuts, they will never face what they have done, unless they are prosecuted. And until they are prosecuted, we are guilty of torture, as a country.

Cheney may be the point man for a lot of really crazy things in the country and it wouldn’t surprise me if her was in on or aware of the real 911 conspiracy and understood that the aftermath of that event would see a completely different climate in the USA enabling war and others repressive measures to shut the people down. It worked by the way.

This whole torture discussion is an unwinnable argument for the right

I am not as confident as you are sander, my frineds are convinced that “of course we had to torture these people to find out what might happen in the future”

and there is no reasoning with him after that statement, I can’t tell him we get more information with the other techniques he won’t believe it, I can’t tell him we create more terrorism and terrorists when we have these policies he blames the “liberal media”

yet before cheney went on his torture tour my dad would have been appalled that we were a party to programs of torture

and don’t forget, they have the media on their side to help convince people like my this

they refuse to admit how wrong they were and will continue abandoning their deepest principles defending their acts

I’m wondering if Obama and many Democrats in Congress are waiting for this SC decision before they decide which way they’ll go on healthcare reform.

I’m not offering my opinion one way or another on that but I know as a fact that under these “techniques” he would admit to doing it even if he were not involved

he is a marionette, if he was involved it was not as the mastermind it was as their puppet

but that’s off topic

I meant to reply to Ruth Calvo’s post when I wrote my previous comment.

Worked for them was not getting information. Worked for them was that it would create the narritive they needed which justified their agenda – them is out to get us and we need to strike first.

Worked for them is that it would scare the “enemey” ie anyone who got in the way of empire that we would not be qauint in handling those we captured. The message was that the gloves were off. We would render anyone torture them hold them indefinitely with absolutely no legal recourse. If you got caught as a bad guy you would live in hell if you did mercifully die in captivity.

Torture was a tactic of extreme fear and had nothing to do with information or facts. Garbage in garbage out. They knew that they could extract whatever they want get any false confession signed. That was ancillary to their agenda and would be used as justification to show that there was a real purpose for torture and this is what the jerks believe was its benefit – real useful information.

The tapes were destroyed when it showed how abusive this was and how nothing came of it.

Perris

I mean that in the world of logic and critical thinking the argument is unwinnable.

Interesting thought, but the Supremes are very questionable now until the corporate shill function can be ended by appointments of real Justices.

SandreO, destroying the tapes was a confession of sorts, but does make it more difficult to prosecute. We need DoJ to get serious, and I think Holder will do that. I certainly hope so.

Okay, MTP here now, I’m getting offline to listen to the drivel.

The tapes were destroyed when it showed how abusive this was and how nothing came of it.

sander, reading that gave me an epiphane!

they destroyed the tapes so nobody could see the questions being asked!!!

“was saddam in league with bin laden”

even though they KNEW he was NOT…this is now clear as day to me, THIS is the reason those tapes were destroyed, among others of course but this was the biggy!

I have a secret hope ruth;

that the real cia, those who refused being a part of cheney’s team b, that the professionals are the people making this information discoverable.

there is information to gather, we don’t know how to get it yet we might be getting direction from those professionals that want cheney’s “team b” removed from their ranks

more;

we even have testimony from one of the interrogators that that event actually did happen, whence cheney wanted a connection, they told him there was none and cheney insisted they “try harder”

this line of questioning and things like it are the real reason they cannot show what’s in those tapes and destroyed them

Good morning. Did anyone here watch Orrin Hatch’s speech at the Kennedy funeral? I read that he told a joke about McCain that may have ticked McCain off, causing McCain to snub Vicki. Anyone hear it?

I thought that Orin Hatch came after McCain.

I don’t know, can’t imagine why Hatch telling a joke on McCain would result in an snub of Vickie tho. But I didn’t watch any of that service.

8:44 p.m. Hatch:

Regales the audience with a story of Kennedy impersonating Elvis Presley — too-tight jumpsuit and all. “It’s really too bad Teddy wasn’t asked to host Saturday Night Live,” Hatch says, then getting in a dig at McCain says that being in the Senate doesn’t leave enough time. (McCain has hosted SNL and did a cameo during last year’s presidential campaign.)

This just in: Dick Cheney is still an asshole.

I’ll bet the corporations will win big time, and then Democrats from Obama on down will start talking about co-ops and ”incrementalism.” There is a reason the Roberts Court fast-tracked this case and it will be a huge expansion of corporate rights.

Thank you.

But Obama promised not to pick on Cheney’s henchmen.

Of course our promise to the world not to violate the Geneva Conventions apparently means nothing.

Cheney misses having the CIA showing up on his doorstep every morning

I shouldn’t have to ask this but what case are you talking about? The Hillary Movie?

And now Wallace is going back to the “The DEATH BOOK”

There probably is a secret tunnel from his new house to CIA headquarters. *g*

there are national security implications when you violate a treaty that go beyond what’s been discussed;

one of the most important tools in international affairs is your ability to broker a treaty, to then expect it to be enforced

once you blatently abdiacte a treaty you have enforced against others, then no treaty you have made is any longer valid, nor can you broker a treaty in the future, anyone who violates said treaty will use your own precendence to demonstrate they can abdicate any time they want

it’s more then just a promise you break, it takes a vital tool of nationaal security and destroys it

I would not be surprised.

(commercial brake – dodd doing a particularly good job of saying that without the usual civility the Senate isn’t doing its job of solving problems.)

Yes, the CIA was brutalized too, adn those are not people who just roll over, you will see them letting the truth out when it hurts even themselves – some who swore to uphold and defend the constitution meant it.

The prevailing view on in the beltway is that the private sector does it better the facts be damned.

This belief is held because government is meant to facilitate a robust economy which is made up of businesses. The belief is if businesses thrive it means people have jobs (regardless of whether they are in this country or at a living wage). The government is a bungling bureaucracy of waste and inefficiency.

The above has been pounded so hard that the facts don’t matter. It’s ideological and it’s almost a universal meme inside the beltway and among the media jerks who don’t do their homework as their jobs are dependent on their taking this POV.

Send in the facts please.

Oh and put down that donut, this afternoon our own Aunt Toby is hosting the FDL Book Salon…

grrrr… I swear y’all are trying to starve me.

Mornin’ all.

Yes, the CIA was brutalized too, adn those are not people who just roll over, you will see them letting the truth out when it hurts even themselves – some who swore to uphold and defend the constitution meant it.

that paragraph sent the chills of pride through my skin ruth, let’s pray they prevail

off for what I believe will be a three hour drive, hope all enjoy the day

and a great big thank-you to Doucheborough and George Stephy for promoting Liz Cheney to the ranks of “serious people” who deserve to be heard and listened to, thereby imposing and enforcing a false equivalency on the rest of us.

grrrr – again.

Very true but the neocons believe that since we are the big cheese we can do whatever we want and no one can or will touch us.

And in a sense this is true and what is happening. Why are the other countries not taking action against the USA for its atrocities?

Some are co conspirators such as the Brits and the Israelis Others see a chilling effect on business if they get tough with the US and that will hurt their people for example.

We don’t recognize the ICC so there is so little that other nations can do when we act bad. Seeing this has emboldened the neocons to do whatever they want and no one challenges them.

In a sense some people believe that when there were successful cover ups of the JFK assassination and several others 911 was possible because it was well documented that the people can be led ANYWHERE and no one will question where they are being taken. Government and serious people don’t lie about such things. The truth is so hard to wrap one’s mind around they simple don’t go there.

All of these concepts of mass manipulation are well understood and used constantly in marketing everything from soap to wars. Even with knowledge that this is possible no one of power can invoke any other narrative and be taken seriously. The emperor’s new clothes. How do you like them?

Yes.

I don’t have faith in ANY of the CIA including the work of Valerie Plame. These are people engaged in illegal activity deception and manufacturing conscent. ALL of them and all of them have the same paranoid world view.

Blackwater tapped foreigners on secret CIA program

Chris Wallace snarks that “it’s purely coincidental that we haven’t been attacked” since we started torturing people.

Unless you consider the multiple times a week that our troops are attacked in Iraq and/or Afghanistan.

LOL
Chris Wallace is comparing the New York Times opening paragraphs in the obituaries for Ted Kennedy and Jessie Helms and whines it’s not fair and balanced. I guess Jessie Helms should have been lionized for his “grand contributions” to justice and fairness.

details!!

More fatalities this month in Afghanistan than any month prior. Fortunately, the war enjoys overwhelming public support.

A new Washington Post-ABC News poll showed a majority of Americans believe the war in Afghanistan is not worth fighting, and just a quarter say more troops should be sent there.

How did Face The Nation score a sitdown with John McSame?