He’s very well looked after. We’re all going over to his place!

You don’t need a crystal ball to predict how this is going to play out. The House-Senate conference committee will produce a shitty, industry-friendly bill with just enough good stuff in it to make it excruciatingly difficult for the progressives to vote against it. Then we will endure weeks of misery as we watch the White House and the healthcare industry paint the progressives as the bad guys. In the end, we will get a wimpy, half-ass healthcare bill that will allow Obama to claim “victory,” while the industry laughs all the way to the bank.

too bad .. no public option .. no bill ..

Here’s the real reason:
“While the danger of the economy immediately falling into a deep recession has receded, the American economy is still in the midst of a serious economic downturn,” the White House report said. “The long-term deficit outlook remains daunting.”

The budget shortfall for 2010 would mark the second straight year of trillion-dollar deficits. Along with the unemployment numbers, the deficit may weigh on President Barack Obama’s drive for his top domestic priority, overhauling the U.S. health care system.

“It throws a wrench in health-care reforms,” Maya MacGuineas, president of the bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, said in an interview. “No matter the specific numbers, they’re a constant reminder that we’re in bad, bad shape.”

I don’t think the public protests are going to permit a bill with a public option. The best that can be done is to limit pre-existing condition exclusions and a few other reforms of that nature. It would be helpful if insurance companies could sell across state lines and tort reform were made mandatory with a cap on punitive damages. That would immediately lower malpractice insurance claims and lower costs.

Another politician saying what he wishes were so.

Quelle surprise.

I liked dKos’s Research 2000 poll of Jim Cooper’s district. Wonder if we can get similar polls for the other 434 districts. And 50 state-level polls.

That national roughly 75% favorable for the public option is coming from somewhere. My local experience is that it is widely distributed and not just clumped up in know progressive counties.

this sounds like the new conservadem meme: ‘we don’t have enough popular support’ for a PO. if 77% isn’t enough, what do they want? 80%? 90#%?

I love this format. It is excellent to tie the policies and statements of these trogs to the money they’re harvesting to turn their backs on their party and constituents. More of this please.

i think you’re woefully misinformed .. and also directionally challenged and took a wrong turn on the internet ..and wound up parking your wheelbarrow of garbage in the wrong place ..

The peace movement is alive and well in St Petersburg.

Sidewalk Liberation Army Flash Mob

In what way? I haven’t seen public protests like this since Vietnam. To me, it’s clear that once people understand the so-called public option, they don’t want it. You can’t force it down their throats…

You don’t like the facts?

Spoken like a true republicant.

Nice going, Obama and Rahm. Those blue dogs think you’re both idiots, and they know they can say pretty much anything they damn please.

Or maybe Greenwald was right. Maybe all this “bipartisan” crap was just to water the public option down to nothing. Hope the humiliation is worth it, Obama, because no one’s gonna give you a dime of respect now.

The pretense is that their district doesn’t reflect the national numbers. The dKos Research 2000 poll of Jim Cooper’s district shows that to be baloney. Poll Tanner’s district and see how angry he gets that he’s been exposed.

Obama made a huge mistake removing the single payer. You always leave yourself something to bargain with and now he is trying to bargain UP instead of down. Not leading just following the parade and trying to clean up the Republican (elephant) poop at the end of the parade.

18% of this idiot’s constituents are without access to healthcare

approx 90 TN families are losing their health coverage every week

Families USA reports 14 Tennesseans die every week due to lack of coverage

Tennessee leads the nation in bankruptcies (in prop. to pop.) and you’ll never guess the reason behind 72% of those filings

good gawd what an oinker

its amazing how a few bribes will change one’s perceptions or even cause one to hallucinate.

18% need to go to work.

How would a Republican in his seat be any worse? He undercuts from within.

Not just primaries, but skipping a vote for him on election day.

There is cost to being bought by inusrance companies.

yet another Republican lie. Containing costs in the healthcare through effective reform will be of immense benefit to the economy as a whole, as repeatedly argued and demonstrated by everybody, from arguments here, to the findings of the CBO to even the findings of the Bush administration.

The CBO marked up the bill and found that it would cost a trillion over 10 years. How does that contain costs? Plus the deficit gives the blue dogs cover.

Since Vietnam? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

100 people at town hall meeting and one or two with a gun equals

250,000 in the Capitol Mall in DC

Right!!!

It is..it’s a coincidence. Why surely it’s just a coincidence!

But seriously, folks. I teach English as a Second Language, and I look more favorably on my students if they bring me avocados. And I don’t even LIKE avocados — it’s just that they wanted to do something nice for me.

If they gave me a few hundred thousand bucks, I’d probably like them even more (don’t get me wrong — I like them bunches as it is). At least I think I would.

Which bill?

Ms. Pelosi’s

Sounds like Ms. MacGuineas wants Obama to repeat the mistake FDR made.

If you are still here, call me.

I would like to say bog off you shit, but that wouldn’t be polite, so I’ll just say bog off you bastard.

The CBO isn’t trustworthy. Isn’t Elmendorf the head? The same tool that was part of Pete Peterson’s Hamilton Project(of which Orzag was part of as well)?

You are so wrong. Tort reform is a red herring to distract people from the real causes. Nice try at astroturfing though.

OK. This is starting to irritate me. Just how illiterate or stupid do you think we are?

In the interests of a little transparency, here is the report so that there can be no doubt whatsoever that certain people who shall remain nameless like to make things up:
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104…..hr3200.pdf

The only place a trillion dollars is referenced is in gross cost of insurance provisions before any revenue recovery, which is a bogus accounting number that nobody will ever see. Yes, there will be a gross accounting impact on the deficit of $1 trillion over 10 years. So what?

The line clearly written “Net Changes in the Deficit” clearly states $239 billion over ten years, total impact on the deficit. To prevent any certainty for those who don’t know how to read rows of numbers, the paragraph immediately following said table clearly reads:

“According to CBO’s and JCT’s assessment, enacting H.R. 3200 would result in a net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period. That estimate reflects a projected 10-year cost of the bill’s insurance coverage provisions of $1,042 billion, partly offset by net spending changes that CBO estimates would save $219 billion over the same period, and by revenue provisions that JCT estimates would increase federal revenues by about $583 billion over those 10 years.”

So, once again, I repeat my question, how illiterate do you think we are?

Oh, and the benefit of the economy results in the decreased burden to American citizens and small businesses. A reduction in the uninsured along by 30 million alone would translate into savings, by 2020, of $150-200 billion per year. And this is assuming that the PO will not result in any of the economically inevitable cost growth controls on underlying healthcare costs that most economists are predicting.

And that intelligent response would be trying to convey what point?

CBO letter $600 billion in savings over 10 years with a strong public option, $1 trillion in costs without a strong public option. Letter was to Steny Hoyer. Look it up.

Well, maybe if we pulled out of Iraq and Afghanastan, we’d have enough money for healthcare. I am about to tip over the edge into isolationism.

That trillion is on top of the two trillion addition to the deficit. The deficit is already so large that at a dollar a mile we could travel back and forth to Proxima Centauri and back…

Tort reform is an essential ingredient and an obvious one. Proponents claim it will only save .5% of health care costs. That may be true as far as it goes (although I doubt it), but the increase of malpractice insurance, and the degree of defensive medicine practiced with multiple tests done to verify a diagnosis ISN’T something else, costs four times. I’ve seen estimates by non-partisan groups showing 34-40% savings just by tort reform alone, IF the tort reform were made uniform and national.

So I guess its TOUGH S#IT for the millions that are uninsured and Soon to be unemployed and uninsured.

Wow. This statement you made -
“and tort reform were made mandatory with a cap on punitive damages. That would immediately lower malpractice insurance claims and lower costs.”
sounds like you must also believe the talking point about trickle down economics – give tax relief to the rich and watch all those high paying jobs pop up – (which got us into this cauldron from hell in the first place).

Sorry, pups, didn’t mean to contribute to any troll feeding.

These trolls are acting as if the CURRENT system does not cost anything at all. Presently we are hemorrhaging hundreds of millions of dollars every year, and that money is going into the pockets of a few very wealthy individuals. Every nation that has single payer health care sees a much lower percentage of overhead than our private system. Therefore even IF we assume the ridiculous numbers being floated about the cost of a public health option or single payer, there will be overall SAVINGS against what the costs will be if we do nothing.

It must REALLY suck to be assigned the Firedoglake/Crooksandliars shift when the Heritage Foundation or the Insurance Lobby hands out trolling jobs. I can hear the objections now. ”Aw, c’mon, can’t I just work the local newspapers?”

Yes, the US economy is in bad shape. We all get that part. However, consider that we ponied up a commitment of over $12 Trillion to bail out a nest of gangsters (and their congressional enablers) who ran the international economy right into the ground. And the teabaggers are whining about $1 Trillion and change (before cost savings) over ten years? All that teabagging has affected your ability to perform really simple arithmetic.

Talk about your shiny objects. Give me a break…

Actually, this may be the stupidist argument against health care reform that there is. We already spend more than twice as much as what we get is worth. The focus of legislation should be where and on what the spent. You know, like a strong public option.

I suggest not even trying to argue this point. As quoted in #34 above, he’s outright lying about the apocryphal trillion. Either that, or he can’t read.

There is going to be a 9/12 demonstration on the Capital Mall by people who want to remember 9/11 and adhere the nine principles and 12 values this country was founded.. Numbers remain to be seen, of course, but it will be a substantial demonstration….

The question is how stupid to think the government is going to follow through on parts 2 and 3.

,partly offset by net spending changes that CBO estimates would save $219 billion over the same period, and by revenue provisions that JCT estimates would increase federal revenues by about $583 billion over those 10 years.”

Even OMB in this morning’s report is saying two trillion have been added and health care would add a trillion. That is indisputable.

When I went to Bruegger’s this morning I got into a conversation with a woman who works there. She’s 54 years old, and she is fighting brain cancer. She has no health insurance because of her pre-existing condition, and SSI won’t help her because she’s still able to work. She recently canceled all her treatments because she is being garnished to pay for the treatments she has already had. She’s about to lose her apartment because, as her landlord says, he’s ”not her social worker.”

Most likely what will happen is that her untreated brain cancer will kill her.

This is the American system – keep working, keep paying, and when you get sick, die.

This is the system the Republicans like. And some Blue Dog Democrats as well.

oh, OK. So, paraphrasing, you’re saying that you made up numbers on the basis that you have no confidence that the government has the ability to hit its own numbers, and then you proceeded to credit what you made up to the CBO. Real honest.

please provide links to the OMB report in question, and we’ll see what it really says… sorry, but since your friend Sambot is so determined to fabricate stuff, I feel obligated to be suspicious.

So you ran up $80,000 in credit card debt, What’s another $1500 for a flat screen tv? I mean after all, what’s the difference between 80k and 81.5k. Is that the logic?

I got treated this morning by my cardiologist. He reprogrammed my pacemaker to deal with some atrial fibrillation in about 20 minutes. In Britain I would wait months for such treatment. I have a decent (with a pretty hefty co-pay) medical insurance policy paid by my employer. It’s good enough for what I need.

I just heard that report on the radio which was AP news…I’m sorry I don’t have a link at this time…

When has the government ever hit the numbers? Post Office, Military, Medicare? That’s how we get a 9 trillion $ deficit!

The so-called public protests have nothing to do with what the public wants–as 77% support for the public option shows in recent polling. More than that, the pro-reformers are far outnumbering these paid hacks or dupes that have been instructed to shout down discussion of the question. So why should these drummed up ‘protests’ affect policy makers any more than say, the millions who marched against the Iraq war? Only because the right-slanted media has played them up, and played down any protest on the Left.

By the way, has anyone read the front page NYT story of the man who opposes health care reform because he fears rationing, while saying there should be a safety net–but that it just should not try cover everyone — and he doesn’t want to pay for those too lazy to work? A weird, selfish, shortsighted and self-contradictory man — exemplary of much of the thinking going on among the fearful…

That has nothing whatsoever to do with the point that in #22 you outright lied.

Sambot:
“The CBO marked up the bill and found that it would cost a trillion over 10 years.”

Clearly, the report doesn’t say that. You cannot now come back after the fact and make an argument that you disagree with CBO’s assessment because the government tends to overrun its budget projections, AFTER you quoted what you claimed the CBO itself said. You either lied or your didn’t. And it’s apparent that you did. You intentionally took the wrong number from the wrong line of the markup report and made a claim here that it said something it didn’t actually say. And you successfully lured any number of commentors to defend that lie by trying to justify a false figure that they shouldn’t have had to justify in the first place. Such disingenuity and dishonesty means that you have no credibility whatsoever, and this is the absolute last thing I plan to say on this matter or to you.

Well, Mr. Walton wannabe, it points to the fact you’re as thick as a plank.

Yet another thread hijacked by trolls.

Glenn Beck’s 912 Project? Now there’s a recommendation…….not!

No shit, and they keep arguin with em!

So I’m assuming your boy Glenn Beck will be there, right? And if so, I’m also assuming you won’t want to miss that opportunity to kiss his ass, right? Should make for some enchanting teabagging footage…

My bold. From Limiting Tort Liability for Medical Malpractice, a report for the CBO.

Savings of that magnitude would not have a significant impact on total health care costs, however. Malpractice costs amounted to an estimated $24 billion in 2002, but that figure represents less than 2 percent of overall health care spending.(12) Thus, even a reduction of 25 percent to 30 percent in malpractice costs would lower health care costs by only about 0.4 percent to 0.5 percent, and the likely effect on health insurance premiums would be comparably small.(13)

And there’s this, again my bold.

Other research indicates that although medical malpractice caps reduce the burden on insurers, they do not alleviate the growing problem of skyrocketing insurance premiums. One report reveals that limitations on medical malpractice awards produced payout averages 15.7% lower than those of states without caps between 1991 and 2002. This statistic is true despite the fact that many of the states did not institute the limitations until near the end of the reporting period. Meanwhile, the median annual premium in states with caps increased an alarming 48.2%. Surprisingly, the median annual premium in states without caps increased more slowly: by 35.9%. In other words, the median medical malpractice insurance premiums were actually higher in states with caps. This is contrary to the goal of the limitations on medical malpractice awards.

I have a decent (with a pretty hefty co-pay) medical insurance policy paid by my employer. It’s good enough for what I need.

Bully for you. And what a ringing endorsement for the existing system.

I’m sure the 47 million uninsured feel much better about their state of affairs now.

How much do you suppose these jagoffs are being paid? Or are they hijacking sane threads of their own warped volition?

“And what a ringing endorsement for the existing system.”

Score!

From your post:

That estimate reflects a projected 10-year cost of the bill’s insurance coverage provisions of $1,042 billion

heheheh.. awwww, shucks… you just took the same sentence out of context, yet again.

probably paid 24 year old K-streeters seated at their desks in Georgetown.

Just talked to Tanner’s office, what the aid said was that the people in his district don’t trust government and are leery of a public option-in other words the propaganda they receive via media is working, Grover Norquist style.

I would bet my life that with a little education about healthcare in this country they would see things differently. We are losing the message game in places like that, and Tanner is not helping to change that circumstance

Needless to say he is influenced by those who throw money at him, to say and do what they would like.

Attention seekers. Games for the immature.

Late in the thread, I know, but I just want to say this is terrific, and it should be done every day to the insurance whores, and whores they are. I know the word is crude, but I don’t care. They are being paid to maintain a system that is killing Americans. Thanks for staying after them.

Yet it is true. I said the cost of the program is over 1 trillion via the cbo report and reported by you. Offsets are another matter. The program costs over a trillion. Get it?

Natch.

I’m getting hiccups when attempting to use the reply button. The “natch” was for SD@71.

It’s over, give it up.

Tuesday, August 25, 2009

Feingold: No health care bill before Christmas
Large Mercer crowd opposes reform plans

Richard Moore
Investigative Reporter

Tuesday, August 25, 2009

U.S. Sen. Russ Feingold told a large crowd gathered for a listening session in Iron County last week there would likely be no health care bill before the end of the year – and perhaps not at all.

It was an assessment Feingold said he didn’t like, but the prospect of no health care legislation brought a burst of applause from a packed house of nearly 150 citizens at the Mercer Community Center.

“Nobody is going to bring a bill before Christmas, and maybe not even then, if this ever happens,” Feingold said. “The divisions are so deep. I never seen anything like that.”

Since there haven’t been any votes by the full House or Senate yet, I can’t quite buy tht it’s over.

But nice try, thank you for playing.

Sorry you didn’t win a prize this time.

No, [Edited by Mod. Please refrain from name calling], the program will NOT cost $1 trillion precisely because of the cost offsets, reduced health care costs, etc., you seem so ready to dismiss.

It’s like saying a certain car will cost $20,000 … if you just ignore any rebates, downpayments, etc. It’s actually a lie since the cost will actually be much lower when those are factored.

Are you righties always this [Edited by Mod.] or just when on the Internet?

just when they think they can get away with it and create FUD. Look at how these two choreographed it: S* here told a $1 trillion lie, then isissqueeker immediately doubled that lie to $2 trillion (still waiting on that link isiss… and yes, issis, tonight I am in fact going to dig through those NPR broadcasts around the time of your post just to prove that you made it up). I love how these people work.

Funny you mention the rebates and buying a car ala the Clunker program.
It’s all good when somebody else is providing the cash.

Didn’t you lie when you said you wouldn’t comment anymore in post 57?

It’s all good when somebody else is providing the cash.

You must not travel far driving only on the roads and bridges you build yourself.

That would be paid for with my gas taxes.

As our dear congressman Frank asked that Larouchie Lady: “On what planet do you spend most of your time?”
No mass support for a Public Option?
Cue the “Lying sack of crap” song…

FunnyWheelieDiva

I think Barney spends most of his time hanging around Uranus.

That would be paid for with my gas taxes.

And of course you insist on a cost-neutral highway system.

By the way, how does the military budget factor into your fiscal discipline?

One of my happier moments this year was when they killed the fighter program.
I say cut it all 20%.

my bad. I apologize for my weak will. I will go back to my original stated intention to ignore you, henceforth.

WINNER!

And yet the “mainstream” GOP/Media Complex treats Tanner with Great Respect as a Very Serious Person.

Another thread full of teh stoopid.

Golly, really does make you wonder about what government can and can’t do. After all, with stupid like this rampant in the country, it is sort of an indictment on the public school system.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, it was that same party that canders to teh stoopid that’s always cutting and cutting and cutting public school financing so now it all makes sense.

They can only get votes from teh stoopid, so they have to ensure through public policy there’s enough stoopid around to remain competitive.

Godda admit, it’s a good plan.
As far as Tanner is concerned, all you need to do is look as his campaign contrubtions to understand his stance on the public option. Pretty simple.

Um … actually, it’s not someone else’s money. It’s my money. From the taxes I pay.

Maybe you should head back to a basic civics class, since you fail to understand how the government is supposed to work. Maybe take a math class while you’re at it, since basic addition and subtraction seems beyond you.

(Sorry, mods, was that too harsh? Or are insults and profanity only allowed in your actual posts, not comments? ;-) )

Your money amd my money ran out a long time ago. It’s called a deficit, this year it is gonna be 1.6 trillion. Spending more is not the answer. How’s that for math?

Aptly promoted as “The million Moran March” I hope.

Hmmm …

Bush’s tax cuts alone were $1.2 trillion. So if we put tax rates where they were during the 90s, the problem is solved. Or is ensuring that the top 1% keep an additional 3% of their money more important that caring for our fellow citizens?

And while here, let’s take a look at a few others ways to find money:

The Iraq war alone will wind up costing $2 trillion. Think of how we could use that money to rebuild our infrastructure.

Two-thirds of all American businesses pay no taxes — change the tax code and we’d have nearly a trillion more.

Repeal Reagan’s ridiculous tax cuts and place the top marginal rate back to where it was for most of the 20th century — including the booming 1950s — and we’d have trillions more.

See — it’s not hard to find the money if we try. Of course, the problem is that Republicans (and far too many Dems) would much rather keep pleasing the top 1% of wage earners and corporations, rather than actually solving our nation’s problems and helping the majority of Americans.

It’s sad that we live in a time in which Eisenhower would be viewed as a radical leftist … but here we are.

**sigh**

Or we could just cut the government spending back to where it was when Bush was elected. Instant 1.4 trillion!

Thanks for checking. My guess is that a poll of his constituents might show something different, but you never know. It certainly put Jim Cooper’s spin in a different light.

Who’s gonna pay to run the government? The top 2% earned 28% of all adjusted gross income and paid 49% of all federal income taxes.

that has to be the end result, with the empahsis on no bill at this point. i very much doubt if we can overcome the industry to get a PO
included in any bill. At that point the republicans become necessary “allies” except, they’ve changed thier tune also. They are harping on the PO, and they will probably support an insurance industry bailout. that leaves “the left of the left” ( i will never forget that) and the wingnutz to make sure that obscene POS never makes to, President industry sychophant and unabashed coporate sell out’s desk.

Um … huh? I’m sure that made sense before you typed it, but your “stats” are irrelevant.

It’s simple, really:

The top one-half of one percent of all tax filers have more wealth than the bottom 50% of all tax filers combined. They have more than enough money to shell out an extra 3%.

Our nation managed to not only survive in the 50s and 60s, it absolutely thrived economically. It even had rich people and people who worked hard! Yet the top marginal rate was 91%. So any claims that increased taxes will lead to a decrease in effort from those at the top is absurd. Besides, if they want to quit working, fine — someone else will fill their place without missing a beat.

Sorry, but it was irresponsible spending — mainly on defense — and tax cuts for the very wealthy that have ruined our nation’s balance sheet. The GOP systematically stole from the middle class to give to the rich via slashing the top rates (and, thus, placing the burden on the middle class), and handed out trillions in no-bid defense contracts to their buddies and political donors.

So anyone on the right — or anywhere else, for that matter — who whines about fiscal responsibility is either a hypocrite, a liar, or just plain ignorant about basic facts. They said NOTHING while their guys put our nation in the tank, and now cry like spoiled babies when someone tries to fix their mess. Their ideas failed, and yet they still expect people to listen to them.

Our nation would be better off if they just STFU.

sambot & ississqueeker are paid trolls.

Please don’t feed them.

Your post is a lie premised upon nationalism and bigotry and no factual information, and you are a liar.

Unfortunately it isn’t possible to shame people like Tanner. Any more than you can shame a pig for sloppy eating. Neither one cares what anyone says, they’re both pigs.

The citizens of Tennessee who elected Tanner got what they deserve — I’m sure he ran on cultural issues like abortion and guns and God and they fell for it. Now he’s selling them down the river and they’ve got nothing to complain about.

No public option, then no more dem votes from me. I’ll vote Green, Nader, Bull Moose, or just stay home. I’m sick of the business as usual. Fuck ‘em!

lol, I had the same thought yesterday and who I thought of voting for was Bullwinkle. Wonder if anyone less than 40 yrs old knows who I’m talking about?