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	<title>Comments on: (Re)Birth(er) of the (Un)Cool: Trent Franks Changes Stand on Obama’s Citizenship</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/</link>
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		<title>By: shekissesfrogs</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963774</link>
		<dc:creator>shekissesfrogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963774</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In the spring I drove from Dallas to Idaho Falls through Colorado. I chose the more direct routes that would take me through small towns, rather than the major freeways. Usually I could only receive a few radio stations.&lt;br /&gt;
The choices almost always were between either right wing talk radio programs or conservative christian political sermons. Only when I was near Denver, was a single progressive talk radio program accessible.&lt;br /&gt;
To give you an example of the available programming:&lt;br /&gt;
1)Rush limbaugh, and in his words, why should he consider another viewpoint when he was the expert on every subject?&lt;br /&gt;
2) Shawn Hannity arguing the position of why cops should be able to break the heads of so-called “thugs” during an arrest.&lt;br /&gt;
3). A christian authoritarian sermon explaining why a “christian”, although he was wrong, was instantly transformed into right because he put on Christ’s “Cloak of Righteousness”. Even acts of murder were okay, because God was on his side.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This was very disconcerting, as I pondered the possible extent of the indoctrination of the people that lived in these isolated areas. If issues are unfairly and dishonestly represented you have disseminated propaganda. The results of which is effectively brainwashing. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In the nine years since I last visited my father, the shift from conservative to radical is profound;&lt;br /&gt;
Authoritarianism determines truth. Alternative views or facts are preemptively denounced  before consideration or research, if they threaten the narrative or the ideology. Even to the degree that support of a particular side of an issue is against his own best interests.&lt;br /&gt;
Not only only are opposing viewpoints intolerable, so are those that hold them.&lt;br /&gt;
The result is of disagreement is predictable: ad hominem attacks, labeling, killing the messenger, and scapegoating. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Although my father is intelligent, he has lost the ability to discern and think critically. As a truck driver, he listens to this form of talk radio all day long, 5 days of the week, every week. My step mother, a follower, merely adopts all the viewpoints of my father. Neither one of them get their news from the internet.&lt;br /&gt;
It would not surprise me at all  to see either one of them break out in a fascist salute  while working themselves up into a lather  during the nightly Fox indoctrination series programming. Real news has been replaced with punditry, and he has absorbed it all very well.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What will our nation become if our citizens cannot weigh more than one side of an issue, especially as our education system further deteriorates?&lt;br /&gt;
Understanding history is also crucial if the past is not to be repeated.&lt;br /&gt;
Critical thinking, civil discourse and debate are skills that must be taught. It is more crucial than ever that good examples of discourse be set in the public media or it ripples down through society. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is no doubt in my mind that small town midwesterners are being systematically groomed to become an ignorant and violent mob.  Our civilization is crumbling.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the spring I drove from Dallas to Idaho Falls through Colorado. I chose the more direct routes that would take me through small towns, rather than the major freeways. Usually I could only receive a few radio stations.<br />
The choices almost always were between either right wing talk radio programs or conservative christian political sermons. Only when I was near Denver, was a single progressive talk radio program accessible.<br />
To give you an example of the available programming:<br />
1)Rush limbaugh, and in his words, why should he consider another viewpoint when he was the expert on every subject?<br />
2) Shawn Hannity arguing the position of why cops should be able to break the heads of so-called “thugs” during an arrest.<br />
3). A christian authoritarian sermon explaining why a “christian”, although he was wrong, was instantly transformed into right because he put on Christ’s “Cloak of Righteousness”. Even acts of murder were okay, because God was on his side.</p>
<p>This was very disconcerting, as I pondered the possible extent of the indoctrination of the people that lived in these isolated areas. If issues are unfairly and dishonestly represented you have disseminated propaganda. The results of which is effectively brainwashing. </p>
<p>In the nine years since I last visited my father, the shift from conservative to radical is profound;<br />
Authoritarianism determines truth. Alternative views or facts are preemptively denounced  before consideration or research, if they threaten the narrative or the ideology. Even to the degree that support of a particular side of an issue is against his own best interests.<br />
Not only only are opposing viewpoints intolerable, so are those that hold them.<br />
The result is of disagreement is predictable: ad hominem attacks, labeling, killing the messenger, and scapegoating. </p>
<p>Although my father is intelligent, he has lost the ability to discern and think critically. As a truck driver, he listens to this form of talk radio all day long, 5 days of the week, every week. My step mother, a follower, merely adopts all the viewpoints of my father. Neither one of them get their news from the internet.<br />
It would not surprise me at all  to see either one of them break out in a fascist salute  while working themselves up into a lather  during the nightly Fox indoctrination series programming. Real news has been replaced with punditry, and he has absorbed it all very well.</p>
<p>What will our nation become if our citizens cannot weigh more than one side of an issue, especially as our education system further deteriorates?<br />
Understanding history is also crucial if the past is not to be repeated.<br />
Critical thinking, civil discourse and debate are skills that must be taught. It is more crucial than ever that good examples of discourse be set in the public media or it ripples down through society. </p>
<p>There is no doubt in my mind that small town midwesterners are being systematically groomed to become an ignorant and violent mob.  Our civilization is crumbling.</p>
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		<title>By: hackworth1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963717</link>
		<dc:creator>hackworth1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963717</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;The birther issue is one of the Republicans’ big picture, big agenda items. Franks betrayed his party with his sidewalk diatribe. He had to get back in line on orders from on high within the Republican Party. The “questionable” citizenship of Barack Obama is one of the Republicans’ key issues. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The R Party must divide the electorate. They must keep us quarrelling amongst ourselves, while they rob us blind. They’ve got nothing for the common man in the way beneficial policy. They’ve got the birther thing “abortion on demand” racism and “socialism”. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Its all crap, of course. But there are lots of guys on tv and radio to back them up. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That one congressman who called Mike Stark a scumbag was projecting.&lt;br /&gt;
These Republicans are scumbags. Unfortunately, so are half of the Democrats.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The birther issue is one of the Republicans’ big picture, big agenda items. Franks betrayed his party with his sidewalk diatribe. He had to get back in line on orders from on high within the Republican Party. The “questionable” citizenship of Barack Obama is one of the Republicans’ key issues. </p>
<p>The R Party must divide the electorate. They must keep us quarrelling amongst ourselves, while they rob us blind. They’ve got nothing for the common man in the way beneficial policy. They’ve got the birther thing “abortion on demand” racism and “socialism”. </p>
<p>Its all crap, of course. But there are lots of guys on tv and radio to back them up. </p>
<p>That one congressman who called Mike Stark a scumbag was projecting.<br />
These Republicans are scumbags. Unfortunately, so are half of the Democrats.</p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963640</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963640</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;They’re racists.  Seriously.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s all part and parcel of not wanting to admit that a BLACK MAN won a presidential election fair and square.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They’re racists.  Seriously.</p>
<p>It’s all part and parcel of not wanting to admit that a BLACK MAN won a presidential election fair and square.</p>
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		<title>By: BerkeleyMom</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963639</link>
		<dc:creator>BerkeleyMom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963639</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Obama has had a passport since he was a little kid (they lived in Indonesia for a while). Are the birthers suggesting that Obama’s mom forged his birth certificate back then in order to get the U.S. passport? OMG! Another conspiracy! Who forged the birth certificate?? Did they pay off someone in the state department to issue the passport?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Obama has voted in the past. Did he forge his voter registration by saying falsely that he was a citizen? Good grief these people are idiots.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama has had a passport since he was a little kid (they lived in Indonesia for a while). Are the birthers suggesting that Obama’s mom forged his birth certificate back then in order to get the U.S. passport? OMG! Another conspiracy! Who forged the birth certificate?? Did they pay off someone in the state department to issue the passport?</p>
<p>Obama has voted in the past. Did he forge his voter registration by saying falsely that he was a citizen? Good grief these people are idiots.</p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963637</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963637</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;By Rep. Franks’ new logic, I could raise all kinds of questions about him–all kinds. I’m sure people have had their concerns–and without definitive and inarguable proof to the contrary, why, it would be irresponsible not to speculate. . . .&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You mean it would be irresponsible &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; to say that he and Rush Limbaugh go on trips together to the Dominican Republic, &lt;a href=&quot;http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2006/06/why-did-rush-limbaugh-visit-epicenter.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a prime locale for underage sex tourism&lt;/a&gt;, and it’s not to pick up a good tan?  Even though we have no evidence that Franks did so?  (Whereas &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0706062rush1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rush Limbaugh really is known both for his fondness of the Dominican Republic and Viagra&lt;/a&gt;.)&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I just want to be clear here.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p>By Rep. Franks’ new logic, I could raise all kinds of questions about him–all kinds. I’m sure people have had their concerns–and without definitive and inarguable proof to the contrary, why, it would be irresponsible not to speculate. . . .</p>
</blockquote>
<p>You mean it would be irresponsible <em>not</em> to say that he and Rush Limbaugh go on trips together to the Dominican Republic, <a href="http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2006/06/why-did-rush-limbaugh-visit-epicenter.html" rel="nofollow">a prime locale for underage sex tourism</a>, and it’s not to pick up a good tan?  Even though we have no evidence that Franks did so?  (Whereas <a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0706062rush1.html" rel="nofollow">Rush Limbaugh really is known both for his fondness of the Dominican Republic and Viagra</a>.)</p>
<p>I just want to be clear here.</p>
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		<title>By: Cujo359</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963636</link>
		<dc:creator>Cujo359</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963636</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, this is disappointing, to put it mildly. Wonder what (or who) got into Rep. Franks?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, this is disappointing, to put it mildly. Wonder what (or who) got into Rep. Franks?</p>
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		<title>By: Dearie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963635</link>
		<dc:creator>Dearie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963635</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Just trying to make myself feel safer……wearing myself out holding up the walls!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just trying to make myself feel safer……wearing myself out holding up the walls!</p>
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		<title>By: punaise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963634</link>
		<dc:creator>punaise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963634</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;begins&lt;/em&gt; to implode? :~)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>begins</em> to implode? :~)</p>
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		<title>By: Dearie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963633</link>
		<dc:creator>Dearie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963633</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah, but damn, at least he has a someplace to go when the place begins to implode!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but damn, at least he has a someplace to go when the place begins to implode!</p>
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		<title>By: voiceinwind</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963632</link>
		<dc:creator>voiceinwind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/24/rebirther-of-the-uncool-trent-franks-changes-stand-on-obama%e2%80%99s-citizenship/#comment-1963632</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Another distraction from health care reform.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The real birther story began with Palin.  Check the video out and judge for yourself.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://palingates.blogspot.com/2009/07/sarah-palins-pregnancy-is-hot-topic.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://palingates.blogspot.com.....topic.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another distraction from health care reform.  </p>
<p>The real birther story began with Palin.  Check the video out and judge for yourself.</p>
<p><a href="http://palingates.blogspot.com/2009/07/sarah-palins-pregnancy-is-hot-topic.html" rel="nofollow">http://palingates.blogspot.com&#8230;..topic.html</a></p>
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