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	<title>Comments on: Remember Iraq or Ray Odierno is Still Wrong</title>
	<atom:link href="http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: zapkitty</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963638</link>
		<dc:creator>zapkitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963638</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In other words you made stuff up. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Well, that was suspected to begin with but since I made an error with the “occupation” vs “SOFA” versions of the quote from the article I wanted to make sure you had a chance to explain your actual logic.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But I find it telling that you portray yourself as genuinely unable to distinguish between Siun’s use of the term “Iraqi nationalist resistance” in speaking of events in the past and the apparently fabricated term “Iraqi national resistance”… or are you saying that Siun actually used that phrase elsewhere as well?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And somehow this all equates to supporting terrorists?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Terrorists who may well be nationalist resistance fighters… and, if the U.S. is really unlucky, may represent or evolve into a national resistance movement. Again.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A resistance movement is not defined by whether terror tactics are used or not… although the practitioners of such tactics can rightfully be defined as terrorists. A resistance movement is defined by resistance to perceived usurpation and/or occupation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When they’re blowing each other up then it’s factional fighting up to and including civil war.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When they’re blowing our troops up in order to get them to leave then they are a resistance. Terrorists as well, but still a legitimate use of the term “resistance.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When they’re blowing each other &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; our troops up then it’s long past time to get the hell out.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And Odierno has made it clear, repeatedly, that he doesn’t intend that we should leave.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And you wanting to slap Siun with a wingnut “Supports Terrorists!” label just because Siun objects to the continued abuse of our troops as an occupation garrison is disingenuous… and also lame as hell.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And, to the Iraqi people, an occupation garrison is what our troops are and what our troops will be… until they leave for home.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other words you made stuff up. </p>
<p>Well, that was suspected to begin with but since I made an error with the “occupation” vs “SOFA” versions of the quote from the article I wanted to make sure you had a chance to explain your actual logic.</p>
<p>But I find it telling that you portray yourself as genuinely unable to distinguish between Siun’s use of the term “Iraqi nationalist resistance” in speaking of events in the past and the apparently fabricated term “Iraqi national resistance”… or are you saying that Siun actually used that phrase elsewhere as well?</p>
<p>And somehow this all equates to supporting terrorists?</p>
<p>Terrorists who may well be nationalist resistance fighters… and, if the U.S. is really unlucky, may represent or evolve into a national resistance movement. Again.</p>
<p>A resistance movement is not defined by whether terror tactics are used or not… although the practitioners of such tactics can rightfully be defined as terrorists. A resistance movement is defined by resistance to perceived usurpation and/or occupation.</p>
<p>When they’re blowing each other up then it’s factional fighting up to and including civil war.</p>
<p>When they’re blowing our troops up in order to get them to leave then they are a resistance. Terrorists as well, but still a legitimate use of the term “resistance.”</p>
<p>When they’re blowing each other <i>and</i> our troops up then it’s long past time to get the hell out.</p>
<p>And Odierno has made it clear, repeatedly, that he doesn’t intend that we should leave.</p>
<p>And you wanting to slap Siun with a wingnut “Supports Terrorists!” label just because Siun objects to the continued abuse of our troops as an occupation garrison is disingenuous… and also lame as hell.</p>
<p>And, to the Iraqi people, an occupation garrison is what our troops are and what our troops will be… until they leave for home.</p>
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		<title>By: macaquerman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963523</link>
		<dc:creator>macaquerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963523</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Well, when I read   “,,, our frontline storm troopers in the fight against the Iraqi national resistance.”  I kinda get the idea that I’m reading the words of someone willing to support people who blow up marketplace shoppers.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Calling these folks the “national resistance” is hilariously stupid and dishonest.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On other posts, she’s  hosted some German guy calling  them “freedom fighters” and happily praised that characterization.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t support what we did in iraq or wish our troops to remain there any longer the the agreed-upon time, but rolling over repeatedly for this kind of cowardly, murderous bombing of civilians and at the same time endlessly bitching about Odierno ……&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, when I read   “,,, our frontline storm troopers in the fight against the Iraqi national resistance.”  I kinda get the idea that I’m reading the words of someone willing to support people who blow up marketplace shoppers.</p>
<p>Calling these folks the “national resistance” is hilariously stupid and dishonest.</p>
<p>On other posts, she’s  hosted some German guy calling  them “freedom fighters” and happily praised that characterization.</p>
<p>I don’t support what we did in iraq or wish our troops to remain there any longer the the agreed-upon time, but rolling over repeatedly for this kind of cowardly, murderous bombing of civilians and at the same time endlessly bitching about Odierno ……</p>
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		<title>By: zapkitty</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963515</link>
		<dc:creator>zapkitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:26:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963515</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And you are correct in that regard. Okay.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now then… while the phraseology in the short form is not so exact as the long form can you explain how &lt;em&gt;either&lt;/em&gt; version leads to anything remotely resembling support for the terrorists?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And you are correct in that regard. Okay.</p>
<p>Now then… while the phraseology in the short form is not so exact as the long form can you explain how <em>either</em> version leads to anything remotely resembling support for the terrorists?</p>
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		<title>By: macaquerman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963495</link>
		<dc:creator>macaquerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:58:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963495</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If you press the “home’ button and pull up the short form of this post ,before selecting, you’ll read that I quoted  what is there.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://firedoglake.com/page/2/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://firedoglake.com/page/2/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you press the “home’ button and pull up the short form of this post ,before selecting, you’ll read that I quoted  what is there.</p>
<p><a href="http://firedoglake.com/page/2/" rel="nofollow">http://firedoglake.com/page/2/</a></p>
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		<title>By: zapkitty</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963484</link>
		<dc:creator>zapkitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963484</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What Siun wrote was &lt;em&gt;“we can be certain that these tragedies will be used in the continuing attempts to justify breaking or sidelining the terms of the SOFA.”&lt;/em&gt; &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is a statement of fact. The multiple previous statements by Odierno and othe ranking officers regarding a supposed “need” to break or bypass the SOFA are well documented.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nowhere does Siun even remotely imply support for the bombers… and neither you nor PeorgieTirebiter can give quotes saying as much. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Indeed both of you “quote” Siun with strange mutations… “breaking or sidelining the terms of the SOFA” becomes “continuing attempt to extend the US occupation.” and “Iraqi nationalist resistance” becomes “Iraqi national resistance”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In each case what Siun actually said is distorted into something different. And it ain’t a coincidence, it’s prime wingnutia on display with the meme de jour being “If you don’t support this abuse of our troops by those who command them then you support the terrorists!”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And we, the people of the United States, have made it clear that we’ve had enough of that particular wingnut bullshit.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Y’know… maybe if you weren’t so busy trying to stuff words into other peoples mouths you might, maybe, hear what they are actually saying. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just thought I’d suggest that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Siun wrote was <em>“we can be certain that these tragedies will be used in the continuing attempts to justify breaking or sidelining the terms of the SOFA.”</em> </p>
<p>This is a statement of fact. The multiple previous statements by Odierno and othe ranking officers regarding a supposed “need” to break or bypass the SOFA are well documented.</p>
<p>Nowhere does Siun even remotely imply support for the bombers… and neither you nor PeorgieTirebiter can give quotes saying as much. </p>
<p>Indeed both of you “quote” Siun with strange mutations… “breaking or sidelining the terms of the SOFA” becomes “continuing attempt to extend the US occupation.” and “Iraqi nationalist resistance” becomes “Iraqi national resistance”</p>
<p>In each case what Siun actually said is distorted into something different. And it ain’t a coincidence, it’s prime wingnutia on display with the meme de jour being “If you don’t support this abuse of our troops by those who command them then you support the terrorists!”</p>
<p>And we, the people of the United States, have made it clear that we’ve had enough of that particular wingnut bullshit.</p>
<p>Y’know… maybe if you weren’t so busy trying to stuff words into other peoples mouths you might, maybe, hear what they are actually saying. </p>
<p>Just thought I’d suggest that.</p>
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		<title>By: macaquerman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963476</link>
		<dc:creator>macaquerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963476</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’ll work on that.  Perhaps you might work on honesty and balance in your word choices.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’ll work on that.  Perhaps you might work on honesty and balance in your word choices.</p>
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		<title>By: macaquerman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963475</link>
		<dc:creator>macaquerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963475</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sorry if you think that I  meant that &lt;em&gt;you&lt;/em&gt; were the person supporting the Iraqi bombers. I reserve that special place for the people saying that –we can be sure that these tragedies will be used in the continuing attempt to extend the US occupation.–&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry if you think that I  meant that <em>you</em> were the person supporting the Iraqi bombers. I reserve that special place for the people saying that –we can be sure that these tragedies will be used in the continuing attempt to extend the US occupation.–</p>
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		<title>By: Siun</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963473</link>
		<dc:creator>Siun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963473</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks zapkitty - great comments!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(and your name has me humming zapmama tunes ;-&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks zapkitty &#8211; great comments!</p>
<p>(and your name has me humming zapmama tunes ;-&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: zapkitty</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963471</link>
		<dc:creator>zapkitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963471</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Seriously ticked me off… I accidentally replied to myself instead of macaquerman.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously ticked me off… I accidentally replied to myself instead of macaquerman.</p>
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		<title>By: Siun</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963464</link>
		<dc:creator>Siun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:22:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2009/08/23/remember-iraq-or-ray-odierno-is-still-wrong/#comment-1963464</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Then you are sorely in need of a brush-up on reading comprehension.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then you are sorely in need of a brush-up on reading comprehension.</p>
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